Did G5 flop?

[BlackCurtains]

I miss KB Toys in the US. Mine always had old stock of stuff, like Kenner LPS, you could still find in package for cheap. I never shopped for ponies  back then but I wonder if I came across any that were like the LPS.

[Crystal-Sushi]

I've personally felt that MLP (strictly the toys themselves, not any attached media) has been on a downward spiral ever since Core 7.
One of the KEY aspects of MLP is the 'collect them all' nature which completely falls apart once you introduce a core group of characters - I think only G2 pulled this off somewhat successfully as it maintained a good blend of old characters with new looks and brand-new ones.
The second aspect is the tactility, which I feel has been lost with the ponies getting increasingly small and less... quality?
The hair doesn't feel nice any more (if it's not outright sculpted) and they're hard plastic. Poses are static and uninspired, gimmicks are obtrusive and get in the way of standard play...
I firmly believe if G4 hadn't had such a successful cartoon attached to it, it would have been dead in the water in a couple of years 

[Taffeta]

This is what Entertainer's pony section looked like on Saturday.
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It's been like that for months.

Look at the choice! You can get a little Sunny, a big sunny or a big sunny with wings! Wow. And is that maybe a poseable sunny as well? I can't believe it 

I am honestly still not sure why FIM was as successful as it was. Not that it was successful, but why it was SO popular. I can only assume it was a perfect storm of timing and promotion. But on balance, its success is something that MLP is going to struggle to overcome or match. I actually did wonder how Hasbro would continue after the FIM phenomenon, because whatever they released wouldn't be able to match up to it.

I think the only way they might have succeeded would have been to rip up everything from FIM and do something TOTALLY different. It would've been a risk, but at the same time, establishing it on it own merits rather than as a comparative media to G4 would have been a better move.

The sad thing is that coming up with something more innovative than what we got is not hard.

[DreamvalleyMLP]

But on balance, its success is something that MLP is going to struggle to overcome or match. I actually did wonder how Hasbro would continue after the FIM phenomenon, because whatever they released wouldn't be able to match up to it.

On top of that, FIM's success hasn't completely waned yet; merch continues to come out to this day! MLP Merch just posted a nice overview of new stuff, and frankly, it looks better than what's on that shelf.

I think that as long as third parties are willing to pay the liscensing fees, we will see FIM merch. It's just part of the overal MLP brand, like G1 is to this day. Maybe Hasbro sees whatever gen is current as just a branch of a larger tree, and not as the main focus anymore? It's all just a bit messy IMO.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I have seen G5 merch at our local liquidation clearance store! 

[Carrehz]

Taffeta - that looks just like the Entertainer I was in on Monday! Only difference is your Fashion Squad EQGs are in a box

It's sad that the most variety I've seen lately is the old stock Fashion Squads and some ancient G4s that have suddenly popped up at TK Maxx (the articulated ones? not sure what set these are, but Miss Pommel is one of them).

Look at the choice! You can get a little Sunny, a big sunny or a big sunny with wings! Wow. And is that maybe a poseable sunny as well? I can't believe it 

I think FiM's success was one of those miracle hits that you can't ever replicate. One of those "right place, right time" kind of things. Lauren Faust was a name most animation fans would instantly recognize - I know my reaction was "Ooh, Lauren's on this? Cool" when I first heard about it - I think that brought a lot of people in. I 100% think that the show coinciding with the rise of social media, and Tumblr's heyday, accounts for a lot of its popularity too. (I also think this is why Homestuck was such a hit, but that's going a bit off-topic... ) Something about it just clicked with that crowd and made it spread more than I think it would've otherwise. Plus the very simplified design/aesthetic/etc compared to previous gens makes it easier/more appealing perhaps to make fanart of? (horses are hard to draw - even stylized ones like G1-3... G4's very stylized, simplified designs are a lot easier in comparison. this isn't a knock on G4's style btw, just a comparison) people love a bandwagon, making ponysonas is fun and easy, I think that helped too. (I know what I mean but I'm not sure I'm explaining it well... I'm not sure how to put this into words :s)

But yeah, I'm not saying I think FiM would ever have been a flop, but I think the level of popularity it enjoyed was largely the result of everything falling into place at just the right time. I don't think ANY follow-up would ever have been as successful because of that.

I think the only way they might have succeeded would have been to rip up everything from FIM and do something TOTALLY different. It would've been a risk, but at the same time, establishing it on it own merits rather than as a comparative media to G4 would have been a better move.

I agree.

[MJNSEIFER]

To be fair, I think G5 does stand on it's own, even with it's connection to G4, and being a sort of sequel - it still feels like it's own generation (which it is) due to it doing its thing and going by its own rules (the things that G4 established have changed for G5, so it's more like a sequel to its own take on G4, rather than G4 itself - there's already contradictions if it's literally a sequel to the G4 we saw) - so it's still its own thing, at least that's how I see it - and I feel that it honors G4 beautiful when it does follow it, so this isn't an attempt to separate it from G4, I just feel that it is its own thing, ultimately.

I can't say for sure, as I did start with G4, but G5 could probably be viewed without prior knowledge of G4, and the G4 ponies and the like they refer to could just be... "story building?" if taken out of context, like they could easily have just been created for this show, as historical/mythological/legendary characters/places/things, but they just happen to be from previous generations, which you (if you're somebody who started with G5) can later check out, when you realize this? I can only speculate, but I like they idea of a reboot opening the door for newcomers to its predecessors, while at the same time standing as its own thing (which G5 does, in my opinion.)

I can only speak for myself, but I both understand and don't understand how G4 was such a song and dance - I love G4, but a lot of what I love about it was present in the previous generations, and stayed present in future generations, yet I also get how it stood out from what was around at the time. I'm not saying that all other cartoons were bad (or that FIM was the only cartoon to do what I'm about to praise), but there seemed to be more focus on being silly/comical, which isn't a bad thing, but I was getting annoyed that there didn't seem to be any love or friendship in cartoons, unless it was included as a joke - I'm exaggerating, I'm sure, but I'm sure I remember feeling this, so when I discovered G4, I was happy to find a show that did have cute friendship moments taken seriously, and had the love that shows I grew up with had (other modern shows do this, as did/do previous/later MLP generations, but that's what made G4 standout for me above other shows - though all of MLP does for me, essentially (again, I know it's not the only franchise that is like this.)

That's just me personally, obviously other people got into G4 for their own reasons, and maybe some of it was the timing, which is awesome in a way, as I got to experience it, which I wouldn't trade for anything, but a shame on the other, as all the other generations deserve the exact same praise and following in my opinion, and I still hope that someday they can be given exactly that, but of course, I know that I and many others (bronies included) love the non-G4 generations (forgive the term, pure laziness, nothing more) and that will always be something, but I'd love for them to get the creative
 fandom treatment that G4 got (if I had more talent, I'd have done so much more for them, and hope that someday I can.)

Side Note: As much as I respect Lauren, it was actually My Little Pony that "introduced me to her", so to speak. I'd seen and liked other things she'd been involved with, but I didn't really check who was involved with them. I guess it just goes to show that the journey can always be different, even if the destination is the same. 

[Taffeta]

The thing is that all previous generations broke away from the earlier stuff and did their own thing.

What G5 has done is more in keeping with My Little Pony Tales, which does not reference directly anything from the older G1 material, but you do have the cameos from the Glowing Magic(al) ponies, and then there's some pseudo-mediaeval stuff which I guess you could looooosely tie into the kind of world that existed in the earlier stuff. Albeit very loose.

Tales is G1. MLP & Friends is G1. One is the older version of a world modernised in the other. That's a link albeit it's not as tight a link as G5 has with G4. Yet we're meant to believe G5 is a generation of its own.

This is one of my bugbears because the defining of generations was something we did, not Hasbro, and the mainstreaming of this idea of a G4-G5 transition is their brainchild, not necessarily in keeping with how generations were defined in the past.

To begin with it was Old Ponies and New Ponies, as there were only two generations. Sometimes you got 'new generation', then LM came in with the Transformers concept of G-, around G3's arrival. Because you couldn't have old, new, and newer xD.

But...though there are some name repeats across generations, there is literally nothing canonical connecting Dream Valley (Ponyland in the UK), Friendship Gardens and Ponyville. Whereas Sunny and company live in a later version of Equestria. Just like Tales and MLP Friends.

Actually, do they call it Ponyland in Tales as well? I can't remember what they call it xD.

So basically, G5 scrapes the barrel on being a new generation. It has its own characters but not really its own concepts. And maybe the nod back to older generations is reflecting the age of the brand and the anniversary coming up - but at the same time...it's really quite lazy.

The naming sense is also awful.

But, all that said - if the toys looked less...weird, and had more variety and better QC, would that make the world/narrative/etc feel more fresh and engaging? I guess the question is, is the problem a stagnant toyline or a media concept that's tired and starved of new ideas?

[TheBeatlesPkmnFan42]

I've personally felt that MLP (strictly the toys themselves, not any attached media) has been on a downward spiral ever since Core 7.
One of the KEY aspects of MLP is the 'collect them all' nature which completely falls apart once you introduce a core group of characters - I think only G2 pulled this off somewhat successfully as it maintained a good blend of old characters with new looks and brand-new ones.
The second aspect is the tactility, which I feel has been lost with the ponies getting increasingly small and less... quality?
The hair doesn't feel nice any more (if it's not outright sculpted) and they're hard plastic. Poses are static and uninspired, gimmicks are obtrusive and get in the way of standard play...
I firmly believe if G4 hadn't had such a successful cartoon attached to it, it would have been dead in the water in a couple of years 

Little late to quoting this here, but I absolutely agree. I did get into MLP via G4's cartoon, and so G4 of course will always hold a place in my heart, but the toys themselves were never as good as the generations prior to it, even if they were the first toys I started collecting.

As I got further into MLP, the collectability with the large amount of different ponies to collect in gens 1 to 3 were a huge part of what drew me to those past generations and ultimately led to me preferring them over G4 (and now G5). And yes the quality has gone down significantly, too. Though the concept of the Core 7 drags late G3/G3.5 down, at least even then the quality of the ponies were still pretty good. Early G4 quality was... alright? But about halfway through that it dipped significantly.

Completely agree that the success of FiM was the only reason G4 lasted as long as it did. I also think the G4 toyline could have done a little better if they'd took advantage of the cartoon's success more? Hasbro going in on releasing so many versions of the Mane 6 constantly when the FiM staff introduced so many characters was always a really strange decision to me. While it wouldn't have helped the issue of decreasing quality, I do think the G4 toyline could have been much more enjoyable to collect if Hasbro would have just made more various FiM characters into standard, widely released pony toys. We did get some toys of other characters, but a lot of them were either part of spin-off lines (like blindbags, Guardians of Harmony, etc), or had limited releases in specific store chains. Really a lot of missed opportunities.

[Carrehz]

But...though there are some name repeats across generations, there is literally nothing canonical connecting Dream Valley (Ponyland in the UK), Friendship Gardens and Ponyville. Whereas Sunny and company live in a later version of Equestria. Just like Tales and MLP Friends.

Actually, do they call it Ponyland in Tales as well? I can't remember what they call it xD.

not sure about Tales or the backcards/other G1 media (I think Tales is Ponyland too, but I honestly haven't seen enough eps to be sure ), but in MLP and Friends at least, the main ponies live in Dream Valley which is a part of Ponyland.

I'll honestly never understand why Hasbro didn't take as much advantage of FiM's massive cast (from what I've seen!) as they could've. Like, the fact that we had to wait until the Movie line for a brushable Big Mac toy is insane.

[Leave a Whisper]

The thing is that all previous generations broke away from the earlier stuff and did their own thing.

What G5 has done is more in keeping with My Little Pony Tales, which does not reference directly anything from the older G1 material, but you do have the cameos from the Glowing Magic(al) ponies, and then there's some pseudo-mediaeval stuff which I guess you could looooosely tie into the kind of world that existed in the earlier stuff. Albeit very loose.

Tales is G1. MLP & Friends is G1. One is the older version of a world modernised in the other. That's a link albeit it's not as tight a link as G5 has with G4. Yet we're meant to believe G5 is a generation of its own.

This is one of my bugbears because the defining of generations was something we did, not Hasbro, and the mainstreaming of this idea of a G4-G5 transition is their brainchild, not necessarily in keeping with how generations were defined in the past.

To begin with it was Old Ponies and New Ponies, as there were only two generations. Sometimes you got 'new generation', then LM came in with the Transformers concept of G-, around G3's arrival. Because you couldn't have old, new, and newer xD.

But...though there are some name repeats across generations, there is literally nothing canonical connecting Dream Valley (Ponyland in the UK), Friendship Gardens and Ponyville. Whereas Sunny and company live in a later version of Equestria. Just like Tales and MLP Friends.

Actually, do they call it Ponyland in Tales as well? I can't remember what they call it xD.

So basically, G5 scrapes the barrel on being a new generation. It has its own characters but not really its own concepts. And maybe the nod back to older generations is reflecting the age of the brand and the anniversary coming up - but at the same time...it's really quite lazy.

The naming sense is also awful.

But, all that said - if the toys looked less...weird, and had more variety and better QC, would that make the world/narrative/etc feel more fresh and engaging? I guess the question is, is the problem a stagnant toyline or a media concept that's tired and starved of new ideas?

They do call it Ponyland.

[Taffeta]

Thanks Carrehz, LAW.

Carrehz, do they explicitly mention the DV/Ponyland link in MLP and Friends? I've seen all the episodes but some only a few times and it's been a long time. I don't remember Dream Valley as a location coming up in the comics, but it might have done. I do remember lots of other locations, such as Memory Lane, Misty Mountain, Rainbow Mountain, and so on, and they were all part of Ponyland - new release ponies 'came to live in Ponyland'.

Hasbro did put a lot of money into various versions of a limited cast in G4 but I think it worked for them because of the demand around the series. For that to work for G5, it probably requires an iconic series that will make people want to follow x y z characters rather than variety.

It's interesting how quite a lot of other existing toylines are still going with variety. MH have always done core line/additionals and they have already managed more variety than G5 has done. Rainbow High repeat a few core characters but not so as you'd find them clogging the shelves, plenty of new ones too. LOL seems the same (same company of course). There is an increasing range of stuff from Miraculous, even though it took so long to get here. Even in other kinds of lines, like plush or TY, you see a range of characters or concepts. I feel like maybe that limited core cast thing was a phase and the world's moved past it.

Yes, people will always want popular figures like Pikachu, at the same time, when I was in Japan I remember the stock in the Japan centre in Kyoto cycled in and out pretty much on a weekly schedule, with lines staggered to keep the shop fairly fresh.

I think 'repetitive core cast' may be out of date. At least, so long as there's no meaningful digital component to compensate.

[Leave a Whisper]

Thanks Carrehz, LAW.

Carrehz, do they explicitly mention the DV/Ponyland link in MLP and Friends? I've seen all the episodes but some only a few times and it's been a long time. I don't remember Dream Valley as a location coming up in the comics, but it might have done. I do remember lots of other locations, such as Memory Lane, Misty Mountain, Rainbow Mountain, and so on, and they were all part of Ponyland - new release ponies 'came to live in Ponyland'.

Hasbro did put a lot of money into various versions of a limited cast in G4 but I think it worked for them because of the demand around the series. For that to work for G5, it probably requires an iconic series that will make people want to follow x y z characters rather than variety.

It's interesting how quite a lot of other existing toylines are still going with variety. MH have always done core line/additionals and they have already managed more variety than G5 has done. Rainbow High repeat a few core characters but not so as you'd find them clogging the shelves, plenty of new ones too. LOL seems the same (same company of course). There is an increasing range of stuff from Miraculous, even though it took so long to get here. Even in other kinds of lines, like plush or TY, you see a range of characters or concepts. I feel like maybe that limited core cast thing was a phase and the world's moved past it.

Yes, people will always want popular figures like Pikachu, at the same time, when I was in Japan I remember the stock in the Japan centre in Kyoto cycled in and out pretty much on a weekly schedule, with lines staggered to keep the shop fairly fresh.

I think 'repetitive core cast' may be out of date. At least, so long as there's no meaningful digital component to compensate.

The concert episiode

[DreamvalleyMLP]

Carrehz, do they explicitly mention the DV/Ponyland link in MLP and Friends?

Return of Tambelon
Bree: "It's done, master. Dreamvalley is yours."
Grogar: "Exactly as I planned. Today Dreamvalley, tomorrow all of Ponyland"

[KingdomOfThomond]

The MLP section at my local Toymaster is almost nonexistant (and very easily missed), limited to some blind bags and Basic Fun releases on a top shelf.