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Author Topic: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?  (Read 7967 times)

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Offline cola

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2024, 10:45:38 AM »
G4 was already the downfall of the franchise. The toy quality has been atrocious for a long time because it became all about the TV show and other associated media instead of the toy line. I don't have high hopes for the next gens in terms of collectability.

I really wanted to disagree and say it was Core 7 and 3.5 that begin the spiral, but I don't think that's quite right either. I don't think G4's toy quality was a deciding factor in the franchises failing, but I agree the culture around the show and media started quite a bit of issues (including the toy line).

I do agree and think a re-occurring theme throughout MLP is the mishandling of the toy line and franchise license, and that's the key to a lot of failings. Of course the franchise about selling toys, having a failed toy line won't look good.

Offline Taffeta

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2024, 07:13:19 AM »
My personal feeling that hasbro killed the brand after the first few years of the G4 ponies.

Agreed.
And don't get me started on the secondary fanbase constantly demanding the ponies not have brushable manes anymore because of "show accuracy".

I stopped considering bronies to be pony fans when they started calling Tales G2 ;) To me there are two different groups - actual G4 fans, and bronies...and it's the latter who are fixed on 'show accurate' blah and obsessed with overwriting all other MLP with their own concepts and ideas.

Like the people who swear blind they invented the fandom and there was never a pony community before they appeared. We'd all have been so much better off, and so would the brand, if they never had.

(Again, talking about toxic bronies, not all G4 fans).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 07:14:51 AM by Taffeta »
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Offline cola

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2024, 08:18:14 PM »
I stopped considering bronies to be pony fans when they started calling Tales G2 ;) To me there are two different groups - actual G4 fans, and bronies...and it's the latter who are fixed on 'show accurate' blah and obsessed with overwriting all other MLP with their own concepts and ideas.

Like the people who swear blind they invented the fandom and there was never a pony community before they appeared. We'd all have been so much better off, and so would the brand, if they never had.

(Again, talking about toxic bronies, not all G4 fans).

I feel the exact same way! I try to specify the toxic fans too, although my experience has not been good with any personally.

Offline gunmute

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2024, 08:32:05 PM »
Like the people who swear blind they invented the fandom and there was never a pony community before they appeared.)

They also relentlessly mock the previous gens and treat them as lesser for being targeted towards a younger audience. They can't even conceive of someone watching the G1 and G3 movies and enjoying them, for them it's just something to watch "ironically" to make fun of on their Youtube channels. Absolutely no respect for what came before them, as if G4 was the generation that somehow "fixed" the franchise, when in reality it did the exact opposite. I could go on forever but already veering off-topic here..

Offline Zapper

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2024, 06:30:02 AM »
Like the people who swear blind they invented the fandom and there was never a pony community before they appeared.)

They also relentlessly mock the previous gens and treat them as lesser for being targeted towards a younger audience.

Let's not forget they mock them for being for girls while swearing up and down that G4 is the only gen not just for boys but for grown men because they have creepy villains (that all get redeemed, at least G1 ponies killed them lol) :toot:
Nevermind the first two seasons of FiM were completely girl-targeted and are being hailed as the best of the series, nevermind the fan-pandering even started to annoy the b-words after a while and they started fighting over which fancanon to make official and threatened the showrunners and writers. Their own fandom started eating itself.

Edit: typos
« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 06:34:20 AM by Zapper »

Offline gunmute

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2024, 07:55:55 AM »
Like the people who swear blind they invented the fandom and there was never a pony community before they appeared.)

They also relentlessly mock the previous gens and treat them as lesser for being targeted towards a younger audience.

Let's not forget they mock them for being for girls while swearing up and down that G4 is the only gen not just for boys but for grown men because they have creepy villains (that all get redeemed, at least G1 ponies killed them lol) :toot:
Nevermind the first two seasons of FiM were completely girl-targeted and are being hailed as the best of the series, nevermind the fan-pandering even started to annoy the b-words after a while and they started fighting over which fancanon to make official and threatened the showrunners and writers. Their own fandom started eating itself.

Edit: typos

So true lol. I'm a grown man and I never felt othered at all for liking and collecting G1-G3. Don't see how G4 is revolutionary in that regard. In fact bonies are the only toxic and othering MLP community I've encountered. Can't speak for the series itself as I only watched season 1 way back when & remember nothing from it.

Offline Lady Frostbite

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2024, 01:14:14 PM »
The contempt was given a sort-of stamp of approval from Faust as she outright said she wanted FIM to be more than tea parties, in which case again I have to ask what she was watching as the first MLP movie was about fighting evil. She spoke as though this was going to be revolutionary and was irritated that Hasbro kept changing things ... despite NOT BEING HER PROPERTY TO START WITH. The finale of Season One, which she wrote on, was a giant party. Sure, the different characters wanted different things from it, but Rarity explicitly wanted to meet Prince Blueblood (and get her hopes sat on), Fluttershy wanted to meet animals (very progressive and anti-sappy girly things of course), Twilight I'm sure was just to suck up to Celestia more, Applejack to sell stuff at (please tell me how she thought that was going to happen at a gala event), Rainbow Dash wanted to suck up to the Wonderbolts, and Pinkie Pie just wanted to get PG-wasted.

The sneering at the 'girly' nature of previous generations just seems spiteful and downplaying what made girl's media, like ... just because it was pastel colours doesn't mean horror and conflict wasn't happening. I wonder if any of these bronies even TALK to fans who were children when G1 came out, because the twisted storylines girls come up with outside of what is 'show canon' is something to behold and would make GRRM sweat in his braces.

Again, Faust's irate reaction to anything that deviates from what she wants is so contemptable. She hated Equestria Girls, she hates anyone telling her to change anything, again even in a franchise that's NOT HERS. Sure, the 'Mane Six' may take inspiration from older designs and she gave them their personality templates, but they are at their core not hers. They are OCs. Sorry Lauren, but they are. They're endorsed OCs, they're OCs that others have written for, but if you were so angry at changes made, perhaps you're in entirely the wrong industry or you don't know how to make changes to actually get your way to make things 'progressive' without being forced back two steps for every one you take, and don't leave when things start to get made and your own project is bland and cookie-cutter (Galaxy Girls).

Monster High is, on the surface, about fashion and girl problems. And yet it's riddled with body horror, references to classic horror tropes and staples, surprisingly sarcastic and self-aware, the girls are not afraid to literally attack each other, and they deal with typical teenager problems like school, parental disapproval, cliques and puberty, etc. It helps if you don't just look at box art and actually look deeper into media that came before you
« Last Edit: December 15, 2024, 01:16:18 PM by Lady Frostbite »
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2024, 01:25:36 PM »
I know a few male G1 fans who have felt unsafe talking about their collecting since the bronies happened, with all the associations. I've had male G1 collecting friends since the 1990s. It's not a new thing. It never was. :/

On a side-note not really on topic, but at work, we all have identical black laptops, so to differentiate them we all have added stickers. I have seashell and cotton candy stickers on mine. Today, I was serving a customer and he commented on them being My Little Pony and from the eighties. I was so relieved it wasn't a 'oh that creepy thing' kind of reference, although we both agreed that it showed our ages xD.

...Also on a side note, but recently I rewatched a few episodes of another kids' show I enjoyed when I was younger. Watching as an adult I realised how much was put into kids shows (at least over here) for the parents to enjoy as well. Things that went over my head as a child that I was now laughing at as an adult. While MLP doesn't exactly do that, there isn't really the modern "sensibilities" about what kids should/should not be watching in the same way. I remember a furore about Jem's 'violence' at some point maybe 10 years ago because Rio kicked a pot plant and the Misfits got a bit rowdy. True, that was a bit of an issue at the time as well, but overall I think that kids shows back then were less 'cotton-wool padded' than they are now.

FIM was successful because it's formulaic. The characters do not develop beyond their individual cliches and the plots are all unbendingly connected to friendship even when that gives a worrying message to the audience. I was never madly attached to the G1 animation - but I came to love it more after seeing FIM. :/

I will always be a comic kid, but I prefer G1's media. It had more darkness and actual grit in it and I appreciated that.

And here's me going completely off left field now, but I remember a discussion recently came up on a facebook group about that comic story re the TE ponies. And one person got so upset about it and so offended by how some 'foreign branch of Hasbro' allowed something so 'off-brand' which was 'so damaging for children'...blah. But then someone else pointed out how it was actually historical, and reflected the pit ponies in the mines here in the industrial past. That context really made sense to me, but this person was going on about how damaging such themes and ideas would have been for kids...

And I suddenly understood why G5, and to some extent, G4, were so lacking. They're guided by such strict and nonsensical "concepts" of what kids can and should be able to handle, which for some reason is much less creative than what went before.

I realise calling FIM lacking in creativity is a controversial opinion, but it's mine, so sorry about that :)

I still don't love all the G1 animation. But you have to go a long way to find something in a later gen that beats RaMC.

Lady Frostbite, the irony of that teaparty nonsense being that G4 has way more tea parties and Pinkie Pie with a streamer/confetti cannon - than G1 has ever had ever. And the ones in the comic are often so dystopian or weird that they're more like the Mad Hatter's Tea Party than 'girly party with her friends' trope...
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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2024, 09:26:30 PM »
You guys make a lotta good points. Especially about kids being over sheltered from everything.
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Offline DreamvalleyMLP

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2024, 08:24:17 AM »
So, is MLP now officially over and done with (for now)? Show cancelled and the toyline quietly fading away, apart from some China merch?

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2024, 10:33:29 AM »
I'm not seeing much out and about, but there is retro merch coming out now and then, so I think this will be a hibernation period but the nostalgia means it's absolutely not fading anytime soon. It will be interesting to see if they capitalise on nostalgia for G4 the same way Monster High G1 is getting
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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2025, 05:59:53 AM »
I'm not seeing much out and about, but there is retro merch coming out now and then, so I think this will be a hibernation period but the nostalgia means it's absolutely not fading anytime soon. It will be interesting to see if they capitalise on nostalgia for G4 the same way Monster High G1 is getting

They're still refusing to let g4 go. It can't build nostalgic fondness if they're still making crap for it.
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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2025, 09:00:41 AM »
The big difference with MH is that it began in 2011, people were looking back to the original and making comparisons. G4 by contrast was always just another rework of an existing IP.

The proper contrast with G1 MH is that G1 existed, was loved, but was ended for whatever reason by the manufacturer (Mattel). Then G2 happened, it was less popular, people clamoured for a return to G1. So Mattel responded by creating G3, which straddled the difference between the two and thus made more people happy (if not everyone). Exactly as happened with MLP.

MH have not yet got to a G4 regurgitation yet, so the comparison is futile. But as I've said before, the one big difference with Mattel and MH is that Mattel understood from the start the value of capturing the adult collector market while reinventing the kids' toys. Probably because it's a doll line and Mattel have extensive experience in that area, but the balance of collector releases and new stuff has kept old MH alive and balanced throughout the later stuff.

...Hasbro have only cottoned onto that idea belatedly and largely thanks to BF. While they did license the IP out to various producers for the older gen stuff, Hasbro themselves were markedly uninterested in anything pre-G4 when the BF ponies came out (I had a correspondance with their customer service who told me in very snippy tones it was nothing to do with them). The success of the BF ponies has obviously changed their attitude in that area and they're now more engaged with using the old IP than they were before.

I've seen bronies bemoaning the fact the Hasbro 2025 briefing seemed focused entirely on G1 stuff, and wondering why G4 is absent from this plan. I don't suppose it is absent, as Lady Frostbite and LAW both said, Hasbro are too attached to the success it brought them. But the interest Hasbro have recently been showing G1 negates the brony concept of 'inventing' pony and 'inventing' the fandom, and so it seems to be causing confusion in some areas.

Hasbro are digging back into nostalgia, but that nostalgia is for G1. G4 didn't end that long ago and G5 didn't move away from its concepts. Thus as LAW said, it hasn't ended yet and we can't talk about a nostalgic revival for something they haven't yet let go of.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 09:02:33 AM by Taffeta »
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Offline lovesbabysquirmy

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Re: Could g5 be the potential downfall of mlp?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2025, 10:16:37 AM »
G4 has still completely flooded the secondary  market.  I think it will be a long time before we see another generation of MLP .  remember there was a LONG time between G1 and G3 and that's why it was so successful
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