The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: foalpatrol on January 04, 2018, 12:28:39 AM
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A buyer opened an unreceived item case on ebay. When I attempt to refund through the resolution centre it says:
"There was a problem sending your refund to the buyer. To try again or to see what's wrong, go to PayPal."
When I log into PayPal, the funds for the transaction are on hold saying:
"Your buyer has opened a dispute on this transaction. Sign in to your eBay account for more information on how to resolve it." with no option to refund.
I'm going round in circles. And if I wait for eBay to step in and refund the buyer, it will count against me as a seller.
Any idea how to refund the buyer? I'm not located in the US, and not in a position to be making lengthy international phone calls to eBay.
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There is an option for eBay to call you and there is also a help search. I'm just wondering whether your buyer waited long enough before opening this case and this may be the reason that you can't refund them? Also, if you did everything correctly (tracking number, etc.) and this buyer may have done this to other sellers, eBay maybe has marked them as a problem buyer and so the problem is really at their end?
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A buyer opened an unreceived item case on ebay. When I attempt to refund through the resolution centre it says:
"There was a problem sending your refund to the buyer. To try again or to see what's wrong, go to PayPal."
When I log into PayPal, the funds for the transaction are on hold saying:
"Your buyer has opened a dispute on this transaction. Sign in to your eBay account for more information on how to resolve it." with no option to refund.
I'm going round in circles. And if I wait for eBay to step in and refund the buyer, it will count against me as a seller.
Any idea how to refund the buyer? I'm not located in the US, and not in a position to be making lengthy international phone calls to eBay.
If you have Skype they have free toll-free calling, which may be used in conjunction with this:
https://www.howtocallabroad.com/qa/toll-free.html
I'm sorry if I am not much help, but I figured I'd try. I am in the US so I don't know if this actually works so you can call eBay.
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Thanks for the info about having eBay call me. I tried that, and despite it saying my number wasn't valid, I received a call a from them couple of minutes later.
I then spent 72 minutes in a three-way call with eBay and PayPal after being repeatedly transferred between them, as eBay said I needed to talk to PayPal, and PayPal said I needed to talk to eBay.
eBay told me that they could not step in and refund the buyer without giving me a defect.
In the end, while on the phone, I refunded the buyer by sending the money directly as a friends and family payment, PayPal gave eBay the transaction ID and confirmed I'd made the payment, and eBay said they would close the case in my favour which could take 24-48 hours.
I'll believe it when I see it. I'm fully anticipating having to spend more time on the phone.
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Thanks for the info about having eBay call me. I tried that, and despite it saying my number wasn't valid, I received a call a from them couple of minutes later.
I then spent 72 minutes in a three-way call with eBay and PayPal after being repeatedly transferred between them, as eBay said I needed to talk to PayPal, and PayPal said I needed to talk to eBay.
eBay told me that they could not step in and refund the buyer without giving me a defect.
In the end, while on the phone, I refunded the buyer by sending the money directly as a friends and family payment, PayPal gave eBay the transaction ID and confirmed I'd made the payment, and eBay said they would close the case in my favour which could take 24-48 hours.
I'll believe it when I see it. I'm fully anticipating having to spend more time on the phone.
Keep us posted on what happens! I'm curious as to why you are being put through this whole charade and why it's not an easy fix.
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Well, surprise surprise, 48 hours later and eBay has not closed the case and the funds are still on hold.
I went back to eBay to request another call, but that option had disappeared and there was instead only an email option, so I've sent them a long-winded email with the whole story, requesting that the case be closed, and my fees refunded.
On a side note, it appears the exchange rates have changed since the auction closed. The buyer contacted me to say the payment she received was less than what she had paid. I sent her back the exact amount she paid in USD, it appears to have been automatically converted to her own currency and was about 10% less than what she paid originally. My concern is that if she doesn't feel she has been fully refunded, she may request a refund via ebay which will result in the funds being removed from me a second time, as eBay haven't done what they promised and the case is still open!
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I would explain to the buyer the situation and ask her maybe if there was a way for them to contact eBay about the refund since they are in the U.S. It's a long shot, but if they are understanding about your situation they may work with you.
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I would explain to the buyer the situation and ask her maybe if there was a way for them to contact eBay about the refund since they are in the U.S. It's a long shot, but if they are understanding about your situation they may work with you.
The buyer has been OK to work with, but I'm also dealing with a language barrier. It's probably best if I refrain from asking her to take any action as there's a chance it could be misinterpreted. I have explained to her any difference in the amount she paid/received is due to exchange rates.
Edited to add:
This is a nightmare. The buyer has responded "Sorry. But your compensation does not cover my expenses. It seems to me that you have not considered shipping costs. You need to compensate for 834,54 RUB. Or I'm willing to wait for a decision from Ebay. You will return my payment from 12.11.2017. I return your payment from 04.01.2018."
I have refunded her in full. I cannot be held responsible for exchange rates!
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What currency was the transaction carried out in? If your auction was listed in your currency, then that is the amount you are obligated to refund. You are not responsible for changes in the exchange rate, and I think Ebay would back you on that because they would simply ask you to refund the amount of the auction, which would be the exact amount in that currency. It's the buyer's bad luck if the exchange rate changed mid transaction, but you don't need to send her more money than she is entitled to.
You need to pass this demand on to ebay - if the case is still open, then make an additional statement about it on the case (and in fact, all of these issues). I never use ebay over the phone because it's hard to prove you've had that conversation, too many reps (that and the fact I hate phones, but yeah). If it's in writing on the case then there's a paper trail. I don't know how much access you have to this but you must be able to add comments to a still open case.
In any case, if your sale was in your currency, not hers, your buyer is now demanding additional funds beyond the cost of the auction as recorded by ebay. That ought to be something they take up and handle.
NO guarantees being that it's ebay, but you can only refund the amount she bid in the currency she bid.
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I'll preface this by saying I have no experience selling.
That said, I agree with Taffeta. You've refunded the buyer. The matter should be closed. Notate in the case when the buyer was refunded, the conversion issue, and all the stuff that's transpired with the reps on the phone. I don't know what kind of character limit there is when you respond to a case but the more detail you can put in the better so that whomever settles the case has all the facts.
I'm sorry you're going through this, because it really shows negligence on the part of both Ebay and PayPal.
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Thanks for the advice. As she can ask eBay to step in today, I will respond to the case with a summary of what has occurred so far including the PayPal transaction reference. Hopefully eBay will actually read it before making a decision.
I feel for the buyer and don't think she should be disadvantaged by failures on eBay and PayPal's part, but I shouldn't have to pay more than the auction amount, I am already losing the sales money and have spent hours of my own time trying to resolve this.
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Ebay and Paypal need to do something about their horrendous customer service. I hope things work out to everyone's satisfaction Foal Patrol.
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Hopefully Ebay/Paypal can settle all this because as you say, it should be simple. You refunded the amount in NZD. It's not your problem that she had her bank convert funds to Russian RUB and naturally the exchange rate did NOT come out in her favor... They are different currencies! *shakes my head*
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Since you sent your item to Russia (I see the currency was in rubles), did the buyer even allow enough time for the item to arrive before filing a claim? I know that it can take months for items from the U.S. to arrive there so I can only imagine it will take as long to arrive. I will bet that they still get the item in the mail and they are jumping the gun on this demanding a refund.
At this point you probably just want to be done with this. So let's hope you can do just that if eBay steps in.
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Since you sent your item to Russia (I see the currency was in rubles), did the buyer even allow enough time for the item to arrive before filing a claim? I know that it can take months for items from the U.S. to arrive there so I can only imagine it will take as long to arrive. I will bet that they still get the item in the mail and they are jumping the gun on this demanding a refund.
At this point you probably just want to be done with this. So let's hope you can do just that if eBay steps in.
It's been almost two months. Items have taken up to six weeks in the past, I've posted to Russia several times. I expect it could still arrive but has been delayed by the holiday period.
But yes, at this point I am over it and would just like the case closed and my fees refunded.
I have sent a statement of events in response to the buyer's message, heavily abridged due to the 1000 character restriction. I am expecting her to ask eBay to step in later today.
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Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry. What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.
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Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry. What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.
While I understand your sentiments, I think that the way you phrased your statement is a rather sweeping indictment of the vast majority of people who buy internationally who do understand all that is involved in the process, possibly better than a lot of the sellers do.
The OP is clearly a great seller and a very open-minded one as a lot of people don't like to ship to Russia. As she stated she's had smooth transactions doing so in the past, this is clearly an unfortunate one-off situation in which this particular buyer (and maybe the holiday and the language barrier) has created a misunderstanding.
Let's not use this as a reason to generalise against people who buy internationally.
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Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry. What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.
Many of them are not in a kind and caring community like this one. Hence they are not educated international buyers...
I don' t think the statement from tulagirl was meant disparagingly... just UGH I wish there was some way to educate international buyers before they click, that there WILL be fees, there WILL be taxes, the shipping IS pricey, this experience is nothing like walking into your local shop and walking out with a purchase like one does for food!!! :( And currency conversion and Paypal fees and bank fees make things even MORE expensive.
Just because we have a globalized economy does not mean that things are less expensive, they are just are more accessible. like using Ebay.
I am sure Ebay has faced this very situation before - they have policies surrounding this stuff, even if the buyer keeps crying that they don't want to read the policies...
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In response to my email to eBay, I received an email saying they would arrange a callback for me within 24 hours. They called me this morning and I explained the issue. Told me it was PayPal's problem (which it isn't, it's eBay who hasn't followed through and closed the case) and said they needed confirmation from PayPal that the refund had been made (which was already given to them in the phone call last week). Told me they would make a three-way call to PayPal, but ended up transferring me instead!
I explained to PayPal what happened, and they released the held funds. If they had just done that last week when I asked, I would have been able to refund the buyer that way! After they did that, I asked them to transfer me back to eBay so I wouldn't have to request another phone call. The lady told me that PayPal don't transfer calls, and that she could lose her job if she did. Uhh, but the person I spoke to at PayPal last week could!
So, after 46 minutes, I had to hang up and request another call from eBay. Fortunately they called within five minutes. The person I spoke to said she needed proof of the payment, and asked for a screenshot. She emailed me with a link and asked me to upload the screenshot. I did so while she was on the phone. She said it would take up to another 24 hours for them to receive the screenshot and close the case in my favour, and to call back then if the case still wasn't closed. I'm not holding my breath.
That phone call took 29 minutes. I have now spent 147 minutes on the phone trying to fix this mess.
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Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry. What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.
Many of them are not in a kind and caring community like this one. Hence they are not educated international buyers...
I don' t think the statement from tulagirl was meant disparagingly... just UGH I wish there was some way to educate international buyers before they click, that there WILL be fees, there WILL be taxes, the shipping IS pricey, this experience is nothing like walking into your local shop and walking out with a purchase like one does for food!!! :( And currency conversion and Paypal fees and bank fees make things even MORE expensive.
Just because we have a globalized economy does not mean that things are less expensive, they are just are more accessible. like using Ebay.
I am sure Ebay has faced this very situation before - they have policies surrounding this stuff, even if the buyer keeps crying that they don't want to read the policies...
Thank you Lovesbabysquirmy for understanding where I was coming from here. I agree with your post.
In response to my email to eBay, I received an email saying they would arrange a callback for me within 24 hours. They called me this morning and I explained the issue. Told me it was PayPal's problem (which it isn't, it's eBay who hasn't followed through and closed the case) and said they needed confirmation from PayPal that the refund had been made (which was already given to them in the phone call last week). Told me they would make a three-way call to PayPal, but ended up transferring me instead!
I explained to PayPal what happened, and they released the held funds. If they had just done that last week when I asked, I would have been able to refund the buyer that way! After they did that, I asked them to transfer me back to eBay so I wouldn't have to request another phone call. The lady told me that PayPal don't transfer calls, and that she could lose her job if she did. Uhh, but the person I spoke to at PayPal last week could!
So, after 46 minutes, I had to hang up and request another call from eBay. Fortunately they called within five minutes. The person I spoke to said she needed proof of the payment, and asked for a screenshot. She emailed me with a link and asked me to upload the screenshot. I did so while she was on the phone. She said it would take up to another 24 hours for them to receive the screenshot and close the case in my favour, and to call back then if the case still wasn't closed. I'm not holding my breath.
That phone call took 29 minutes. I have now spent 147 minutes on the phone trying to fix this mess.
I can't wrap my head around why this is happening to you the way it is. I really hope they can get this issue closed properly. Uggg
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And the latest - eBay have just emailed me saying I should check that the buyer has received the refund and ask her to close the case.
Despite telling me repeatedly that they would close the case once they received the screenshot.
*facepalm*
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And the latest - eBay have just emailed me saying I should check that the buyer has received the refund and ask her to close the case.
Despite telling me repeatedly that they would close the case once they received the screenshot.
*facepalm*
I see another phone call in your future unfortunately. I'm so sorry this has occurred. It would be helpful if there was a help desk for NZ sellers. Hopefully you are able to resolve this matter soon. It seems like it shouldn't be this complicated for eBay.
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I see another phone call in your future unfortunately. I'm so sorry this has occurred. It would be helpful if there was a help desk for NZ sellers. Hopefully you are able to resolve this matter soon. It seems like it shouldn't be this complicated for eBay.
I'm seeing another phone call in my future too. I responded to the email telling them that the buyer was unlikely to close the case as they were trying to extract more funds from me, and received another message saying they would get back to me within 72 hours.
Their customer service is a complete shambles - it seems that no one knows what they're doing, and cases are handled by dozens of different people with no cohesion. You speak to two different people and get two completely different answers. If they just trained everyone in the same way and had the different departments actually communicate with each other, people might not have to spend hours on the phone trying to fix things. It would be helpful if they had an NZ help desk as international lines aren't great and it's difficult to hear what they are asking sometimes which drags it out even longer. Will try again tomorrow I guess.
On a positive note, I feel I have enough evidence and file notes lodged on eBay's side now that if they buyer does ask eBay to step in and resolve things, there's a decent chance it will be in my favour. But again, not holding my breath.
Latest update:
After much back-and-forth from eBay, they told me that the screenshot I sent them was valid proof of the refund, and while they could not close the case right away, it would be closed in my favour on the 10th.
A couple of hours later, the buyer escalated the case. I felt fairly confident as I had it in writing from eBay that the case would be closed in my favour.
Overnight last night, the case was closed in the buyer's favour and her money was refunded, even though I'd already refunded her.
There was also an email in my inbox from a different customer service rep, who told me that the screenshot was not valid as the amount was different (I had by this time explained this to eBay a dozen times about currencies, you'd think an international sales site might realise that different countries use different currencies by now)! She also said that the user in the screenshot was different to the ebay user - what??? I responded and told her to look again at the screenshot, the user was the same, and that I had it in writing from ebay that the screenshot was valid and the case would be closed in my favour, and yet the opposite had happened.
I then received a generic copy and paste response telling me how to appeal a case decision.
I feel eBay have well and truly screwed me over at this point. Not only have the funds been refunded twice, they haven't done a single thing that they said they'd do, and now I have a seller defect to my name, despite spending hours trying to avoid this, and receiving written assurance this wouldn't happen.
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Unbelievable.....just unbelievable. That's infuriating and absolutely ridiculous. I know it's the absolute last thing you want to do, but I'd be getting in touch with Ebay yet again. This is just so very wrong.
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Unbelievable.....just unbelievable. That's infuriating and absolutely ridiculous. I know it's the absolute last thing you want to do, but I'd be getting in touch with Ebay yet again. This is just so very wrong.
This this this. I am just shocked. Please try to appeal. I am so sorry you have gone through this. It really shows me some problems in ebay's system for sure. It is a concern to me that this would happen. It is very unfair to you as a seller to have done what you were supposed to do and this was the result. If I was the buyer I would be returning the overage to you because, I have done it before when there was a goofy thing that happened in a case of mine years ago. I had a seller in France that sent me something but I never got it. After two months I filed a case. He refunded me and then the item showed up so I paid him back, but ebay had also sent funds. I made sure he got that back because, I never knew why that happened. I wonder if it was similar issue you had. I just didn't feel right about having money for something that finally arrived. I also didn't feel right about having more money than I paid, so I took care of the seller. They never said a word to me, but I felt better about it. I hope you buyer does this also for your sake.
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Do not give up on Ebay - this is wrong and they need to make it right!!!
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Thanks everyone for your support and understanding. I'm glad this all seems as crazy to you as it does to me.
Things seem to be mostly resolved now. I contacted eBay and asked them to remove the seller defect. They said it would be done by the end of the week, although I've repeatedly checked my account and it doesn't look like it was ever applied in the first place. (Finally, their incompetence is working in my favour for once.)
The buyer refunded me the initial refund that I sent her.
I contacted eBay and asked them to refund my fees. They refunded the fees for one auction and not the other (it was a two-pony purchase). I then asked them to refund the second auction and they did so but not the shipping fees. I have emailed them a third time to get the shipping fees refunded.
I've decided not to try explaining things further to the buyer, I'm fairly sure she just thinks I'm trying to scam her and I don't blame her for thinking that, if someone told me they had no way to refund me after I opened a case, I would probably think that too. I'll just leave it alone.
I considered writing a formal letter of complaint to eBay about their customer service, but decided against it as it won't do any good. Their customer service department is an area of the business that makes them no money, it is just an overhead that they want to spend as little as possible on. Their customer service will always be terrible and will never get any better. I had a bad feeling from the start when I was advised to make an unsecured friends and family payment with no link to the eBay transaction. The customer service reps are given the minimum possible training, and as I have come to realise, don't necessarily know more than I do. Next time I'll trust my own judgement.
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It sounds like a nightmare, but I'm glad you got it resolved. And at the very least the buyer was not out to scam you, because she refunded the other amount back to you and you didn't lose money. She could have stolen it, but she didn't, so it seems that it was the language barrier more than anything that was causing the problem.
Ebay are a problem in their own right. Which is why I am not so big on selling there any more :/ I am good with buyers and their various quirks, but you are exactly right about their customer service. They genuinely aren't interested.