Print Page - WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!

Title: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 03:45:11 PM

Ok everyone..

SQUEEEEEEE

SO today was the best day ever for a myriad of reasons.. I got some great news work wise and also The original REAL reverse gusty arrived in the mail sold to me by Sarahbee. She got her from Stormy who got her from Brickheaven who got her from Wolfiechick who got her from a lady in the UK circa 1997.. She was the very first one ever to surface and one of the two confirmed Reverse Gustys ever! And as you can see shes been owned by some very famous and reputable collectors. She's perfect.. Gorgeous and I can just look at her for hours.. I am so in love!!!

Ok Ok so now onto business!

Now I had an unconfirmed gusty in my collection for over 10 years and was dying to do a comparison to find out if the one I had is real too.. It turns out that the one I have is fake and it can be proven.. There are noticeable differences between the unconfirmed one and the real reverse gusty that only can be noticed if you have them both side by side.

*The real reverse gusty has slightly different symbols than the normal gusty. Reverse gusty's symbols have a heavy silvery glitter tinge to them and the normal gusty has a dark purple glitter symbol.. Also the real reverse gusty has finer more delicate symbols and the normal gusty symbols are clunkier by comparison..

*And lastly... the proof is in the pudding.. The unconfirmed gusty had a larger tail washer and the normal gusty and real reverse gusty have smaller tail washers.. I believe whoever was putting a fake reverse gusty together probably got a tail from cherry treats which was released much later and the washer by then may have been larger??? This is just speculation until I can behead a cherry treats myself to find out.

*The real reverse gusty has a perfect factory weave and its flawless inside while the faked one has a messy weave.

I will be uploading photos shortly.. I just thought this bit of evidence has not been seen before and would be very interesting to the community.

Here are the PICS.. Ill try and take better pics in the future but these will do for now.

Real Reverse Gusty
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(http://s316.photobucket.com/user/lpponygirl/media/lpponygirl019/gusty2_zpsobynhpzd.jpg.html)

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Real Reverse Gusty
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Fake Reverse Gusty
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(http://s316.photobucket.com/user/lpponygirl/media/gusty6.jpg.html)

Original Factory Weave
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Fake Factory Weave on Fake Reverse Gusty
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(http://s316.photobucket.com/user/lpponygirl/media/gusty9.jpg.html)

Real Reverse Gusty has Brown eyeliner and black eyelashes
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Symbol Differences
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Washer size is bigger on the fake gusty
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There is another thing I have noticed since its now daylight and I can put a mint off card gusty right next to the real reverse gusty..
I noticed that the stripe in Real reverse gustys mane is darker than normal HK gustys tail... Check out the photo.

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Ok ill get a ss gusty and do a comparison ;)
Here is an eye comparison and a closup of the silvery symbols versus hk gusty symbols

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My reverse gusty doesnt match my red haired tootsie either.
Her hair color is still more pink and tootsie has an orangy red.

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Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: shadowlark on April 05, 2016, 03:53:22 PM

Oooh so exciting! Very interesting about the differences! Can't wait to see pics! I'm so jealous!!

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on April 05, 2016, 04:20:44 PM

Congratulations, wow!!

This seems the most conclusive to me:

Quote from: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 03:45:11 PM

*The real reverse gusty has a perfect factory weave and its flawless inside while the faked one has a messy weave.

Can't wait for pics!

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2016, 04:30:18 PM

I was under the impression that the presumed source of that pony (wherever it was sold from originally online) was actually somewhere in Europe. Reason being there are no glitter symbol Gusties in the UK. Ever.

But there are glittery symbol Gusties in parts of Europe, and that seems much more likely. Maybe bought on holiday or something.

Congrats on your acquisition :) As you know, I'm pretty sceptical on the reverse Gusty front because of all the fakes and scams, but I do know a couple have been authenticated over the years, so far as we're able to do so :)

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 04:37:06 PM

Hi taffeta. Here are the posts that concern the one i got which is the original reverse gusty aka the first one ever found.

Now as to the topic of if she was made in the UK no one really knows.. We do know that the UK was a dumping ground so its possible she might have been made for another country or is a prototype of some sort. We do know that the other confirmed reverse gusty that was owned by the delaneys was found in a car boot sale in the UK.. So that means both Reverse gustys were found in the UK.

Anyway here are the posts that trace her owner history and lineage. She was in a lot of ponies from a UK seller circa 1997.

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Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: jrr74 on April 05, 2016, 04:43:49 PM

Congratulations again! Talk about well connected! Every time I see your avatar, I am just going to turn green with envy :jealous: :biggrin:

You have to do what SoSilver did, and create a gallery so people can see your awesome collection. You have all of these ponies that others can only dream of! Well me anyway :blush:

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2016, 04:47:40 PM

You might want to put that in spoiler tags, but my point isn't questioning her authenticity, just that the idea of everything being a UK version gets pretty wearing. A lot of ponies travelled into the UK through people buying them on holidays and that could've happened with kids quite easily.

There is no paper trail for glittery Gusty here. I know at ponycon last year we had a big discussion on this subject, and I know it was suggested maybe she was a part of the Fable Ponies - a bad batch or something that means a few got made the wrong way around. That would mean Scandinavia, but I don't know that for sure. The comment about eye colour may support this, though, bearing in mind Scandinavian Gusty with greener eyes and glitter symbols, a variation unique to that release.

I've found a lot of ponies in the Uk that weren't ever sold here, including Macau and Italian ponies which migrated here from Europe. Also Mimic and others that migrated from further afield. Doesn't make them UK ponies, though, and I genuinely want to separate the idea of something found in the UK originally from being a UK variant. I think that muddies the waters and makes it much harder to validate the pony's real story.

Also, people back then decided everything unknown was a UK pony, and that was because DV kept saying everything, from prototype images in US catalogues to variations she didn't have in her collection were UK exclusives. Blue heart Dazzleglow was a Uk pony. Argentinian Flutterbye was a UK pony. Baby Cherries Jubilee was a UK pony. The never made prototype dolls were UK exclusives.

Reality is often quite different. Ponies travel, and in Europe, their travelling is much more of a reality than maybe it would be for them to travel stateside. European countries are mostly small and people from here travel abroad on holidays (and vice versa) often. Also, with the EU, people move here for work from within the union. Ponies travel a lot, because the distance to cover is far smaller. It's less than an hour from here to France, for example, and less than 2 hours to fly to Copenhagen from London.

I suspect this one travelled, and her origin is not really here, which is why her secrets remain secret. You have to take that into consideration when talking about anything unknown and unusual. I've worked for a very long time on UK pony history, and I've known about reverse Gusty for as long as she's been around. But there's no glittery Gusty in the UK. So she may have been bought from here. But she didn't start off here.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 04:51:41 PM

Absolutely no doubt ponies travel.. I believe the UK was a dumping ground for prototypes so both Reverse gustys ended up there together. In fact I suspect she might be related to the US red haired tootsie prototype I have.. The red tootsie was bought in the rhode island hasbro employee store by a girls father who had a pass to go there and brought his daughter to pick out some toys. The girl kept her through adulthood and sold her on the arena 4 years ago and told us how she came to own her. Reverse gusty and tootsie have the same red hair and both have differences in their symbols compared to the normal releases.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2016, 04:54:07 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 04:51:41 PM

Absolutely no doubt ponies travel.. In fact I suspect she might be related to the US red haired tootsie prototype I have.. The red tootsie was bought in the rhode island hasbro employee store by a girls father who had a pass to go there and brought his daughter to pick out some toys. They have the same red hair and both have differences in their symbols compared to the normal releases.

You'll have to just excuse me, because I get a general twitch when I see things labelled as "UK". It's a lot of long years of stress and strain caused by Kim/Dream Valley's consistent insistence that everything not in her collection knowledge was a UK variant, and so now when I see people say "UK variant" I want to clarify that being found in the UK doesn't make it a UK pony xD. And actually things mistakenly being called UK ponies in the past have caused a ton of stress and hassle for UK collectors ><.

I have heard about the Tootsie. I genuinely believe the biggest scope for these kinds of factory 'blips'? is for them to have originated in the US, where creative control for MLP was strongest, so who knows how many more oddballs found in other countries actually originated from there...

I would believe the authenticity trail you posted for that pony. I am less convinced about the Delaneys' one and never have been, wholly. There are so many murky secrets with this pony that I become suspicious. The only one I consider 'authentic' at all is the one you have in your possession now, for a wide variety of reasons...not least because of the amazing coincidence of two appearing at UK sales within a short enough time of one another and then not at all for years after...

So yours I believe is probably the real deal, but I am suspicious of pretty much all others without the same kind of detailed authenticity history.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 04:57:46 PM

I call her UK reverse gusty because she was found there.. but not because she was made there... I like to trace ponies back to where they were found..We really just wont ever know which country she was made by.. but obviously both her and the delaneys confirmed gusty were both found in the UK.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2016, 05:05:34 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 04:57:46 PM

I call her UK reverse gusty because she was found there.. but not because she was made there... I like to trace ponies back to where they were found..We really just wont ever know which country she was made by.. but obviously both her and the delaneys confirmed gusty were both found in the UK.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure there was a fair amount of suspicion over the Delaneys' one back in the day, and it's convenience of appearance right around the time of the other one. It's unclear really, since someone may well have sold it to them under false pretences, but the person who customised RG and sold them for profit was active at this time, and I think it's very possible that the Delaneys were early victims of this (UK based) person, who helped to perpetuate the idea of it being a UK variant. I dealt with them quite often back then, and they were always keen to get the latest UK variant. I remember discussing it with Helen, too, and she was very wary about the sudden proliferation of red haired Gustys coming into the hands of prominent collectors like them. Not the original one,but the fact that there was a sudden little swell of them which ended abruptly when the scam was outed.

It's actually more suspicious that two were found in close proximity of time in the same country where no glitter version of Gusty ever was released. It was considered suspicious at the time, and I still find it suspicious now.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 05:09:11 PM

I know the one i have was originally wolfchicks and i can 100 percent confirm the one i have is just as real as any hasbro gusty.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2016, 05:12:01 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 05:09:11 PM

I know the one i have was originally wolfchicks and i can 100 percent confirm the one i have is just as real as any hasbro gusty.

She's the only one whose authenticity I wouldn't question xD. Which is a brutal state of affairs, but I think she probably IS real, just I don't believe any of the others are.

Far as I'm aware no authentication tests were done on the Delaneys' one, just their word for it, as it was after that that the scam was exposed by Kcat with that girl who had customised them. I can't find any evidence the Delaney one was ever really investigated like others have been. The main argument seems to have been the assertion people didn't customise then, but the RG custom scam with sophisticated weave patterns disproves that, and there were actually many very skilled customisers at the time.

I don't know about Babydoll's, which has the right eye colour, but the issue I have with that is that it would be so easy to swap a UK head onto a US body and root it in red - or reroot a Scandinavian one - and then toss it up on Ebay in a lot and pretend not to know anything. To be honest, that'd be the absolute ideal way to convince the community it was real after all these years of doubt, so I really don't know. It wouldn't take ten seconds to find out about RG and her value by hitting google, it's right there on the Wiki that she's a rare variant and we KNOW that RG scams have happened.

I think I'm right that Babydoll's isn't glued? That makes me think it's a reroot, but I may be thinking of another RG.

So yeah. THe only one I'm at all persuaded by is the one you now own, and that is onlyl because its history is so documented and it was originally bought with no description or pictures by someone whose integrity is beyond question.

But the fact the scam came out of the UK originally as a result of the RG hype makes me really worry about it being labelled consistently as a "UK variant". That kinda reinforces the possibility of creating and selling one from the UK and people automatically believing it because of that idea that it's a UK variant.

I am very cynical, I admit it, but I remember Ebay UK sellers trying to sell faded Posey as a UK variant, because some dishonest collectors tried to put about that she was one. It took a LONG time and a lot of work to break that myth in a time when "UK variants" were hot property. The RG scam came out of this time, too.

It is quite possible that there was a glut of maybe 100 red haired glittery Gusties which for some reason were here - maybe as rejects, maybe they were damaged or wrong so didn't get packaged and exported. It is possible, but we currently have no evidence of it happening that way, and no glittery symbol Gusties ever made it here in proper sale terms.

In my opinion, and based on history, so long as she is called a UK variant, the risk of customs coming up on UK ebay and appearing authentic to less experienced collectors is relatively high. It has already happened in the past. I think that everything should be done that can be done to prevent it happening again.

It is also in the interests of the authentic pony and the person who owns it for that risk to be reduced as much as possible, because all the doubt about this pony stems from the fact someone claimed it came from the UK and thus a UK based scam ensued.

So I'm not questioning the authenticity of the Wolfchick red Gusty. I am questioning the ethical responsibility of traders on how they promote and advertise this variation considering the complications that doing so has created in the past and in the present.

She's not a UK pony, she was a pony found in the UK, and I think that is how she needs to be termed until there is some way to prove she actually originated here.

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: shadowlark on April 05, 2016, 05:13:02 PM

Very interesting discussion, but where are the pictures??!! LOL

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 06:38:02 PM

I agree with you completely Taffeta.. Which is why I am trying to do my part to help differentiate the real from the fake..
If you look at the photos I provided there are some noticeable differences in the real one versus the fake one that might
be able to aid us in the investigation of the unconfirmed reverse gustys in the community. I hope whatever information I am
provided might help other collectors :)

*hugs*

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC UK REVERSE GUSTY from 1997!
Post by: buttonso on April 05, 2016, 06:42:45 PM

Fascinating! She's beautiful! :biggrin:

Title: Re: THE ORIGINAL CONFIRMED AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY from 1997 Found in UK!
Post by: shadowlark on April 05, 2016, 07:13:25 PM

Wow! She's gorgeous!! Congrats!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 05, 2016, 10:55:38 PM

I believe she's a Scandinavian too Taffeta. I have an Australian Gusty (found here in a childhood lot), and the symbols too are very similar, more delicate and silvery, and with that green-eyed/glittered symbol combo it's hard to dispute that that's the case. Most Scandinavians are very rare too, so her being extremely limited attests to how such an obvious error got through - she was one of only a few, so they just packaged her up anyway, needing the stock to ship out to stores. Quality control was pretty decent then, so the error would have been rectified quickly. It's very possible she was the first made, and they set the machine up wrong, before fixing it after she was done looking so strange.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: princessluna11706 on April 05, 2016, 11:21:55 PM

She's gorgeous Ember! Congratulations on adding her to your collection <3

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kellyponyfeathers on April 06, 2016, 12:23:34 AM

Wow. I can't believe Sarah-Bee sold her Reverse Gusty. :shocked:

Guess I'll chime in. I have the third RG, thought to be authentic. (I think. There will probably be some discussion on it now.) I'd have to dig through my records to remember the details, but she traces her owner history back to the Delaneys. If I remember correctly, she was sold to someone who didn't keep her for very long, who sold her to a member here. I can't remember offhand what her username here was (she's no longer active), but I think her Ebay name was browncatpurrs. Before I purchased, I remember contacting a respected member here to verify her history and authenticity; I think it was kcat. (Again, I'd have to dig through my old messages.)

I never did take photos of her myself, but I saved the ones sent by the seller I got her from. My collection is boxed up and my RG is a bit difficult to get to right now, but here are the seller's pics. Her symbols are quite rubbed, unfortunately, so she's probably in the worst condition of the three, but I decided not to be so picky with super rare ponies. And her horn is stained red, possibly from her own hair.

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I think I bought her about 3 years ago. And no, I never removed her head; I don't like potentially damaging ponies/breaking ?original? neck seals.

Sorry, don't mean to steal your thunder, ember. But I don't think I could really steal much thunder from an RG brag anyway, even with my own. ;) And the conversation was sort of turning to authentication anyway, so . . . there ya go. Anyway, of course I'm not 100% sure mine is real, but there was enough evidence in her favor that I took the chance.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: TwinkleEye on April 06, 2016, 01:34:41 AM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 03:45:11 PM

(...)

Real Reverse Gusty
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(...)

Very interesting discussion. But she is beautiful. :inlove:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: daffodil101 on April 06, 2016, 01:42:23 AM

Congratulations, Ember!!! :lovey: :newpony: She is absolutely lovely!

It's so sad to hear of the scams that used to go on... I guess there are always people out there willing to lie to make money, but it's sad to think of collectors doing that. But how super exciting to see the real deal :)

PS... I second jrr74- it would be insanely amazing to see photos of your collection! :heart: :heart:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2016, 01:43:30 AM

I realised after I went offline that I actually did see Sarahbee's, I think, at ponycon last oct.

Since the Delaney one has never been authenticated except by their word, I would consider that one unverified and so unconfirmed. Delaneys were akso taken in by some of the uk variant rumours at the time and so they would have believed someone telling them it was real without looking to prove it.

On the other hand they could be real, I just don't think there is enough proof to confirm any but the one Ember now has, and that one still has some questions, such as how did it get here?

Even if factory rejects were the cause, there is a question as to why such an obvious reject ever left the factory, let alone ended up here, where we did not get the glitter Gusty.

There are so many questions, so many assumptions, and so few answers.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 06, 2016, 03:50:21 AM

Congratulations Ember1.

I recall you having doubts about your Reverse Gusty sometime ago. I notice a difference in hair length as well. The "fake" pony has a slightly longer mane.

I met your new Gusty in 2012 at a PonyCon :) Sarah-Bee let me hold her and pop her head off, there was no doubt in my mind the pony is genuine.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 06, 2016, 05:46:11 AM

There is another thing I have noticed since its now daylight and I can put a mint off card gusty right next to the real reverse gusty..
I noticed that the stripe in Real reverse gustys mane is darker than normal HK gustys tail... Check out the photo.

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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2016, 12:23:13 PM

Ember, if you have a moment, would you mind doing/posting a close up of RG's eyes (or just one of them would be enough). It's not really possible to do a compare from photo with the shade of this eye and the regular green eye on the UK pony, but I know someone did some colour samples for movie star, scandinavian and US Gusty a while back, and I wondered whether we can get RG's eyes on that scale, to see who she most closely matches. I also want to look at the eye paint and how it's painted if possible. I have my two loose regular Gustys (movie star and US glitter symbol) here with me and I'm struck by how the eyes on the one KPF posted above have the same long lashes and eyelash paint as the US pony, but the green eye colour of my UK Gusty. My UK Gusty is far more bold in the black liner and her lashes are a lot shorter.

Also the hair thing with the streak may be batch related, but for what it's worth, when I put my two Gustys together, the hair shade on the US one is the same, or maybe a tiny tiny tiny microshade darker than the movie star one which was my friend's childhood pony here in the UK. I can't get at SS Gusty to compare with her, though, at present.

I think the answer to nailing what and where RG comes from is going to be in these minute details, so if you have a moment, it would be awesome to see what we can find out.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 06, 2016, 12:34:44 PM

The streak being a different shade is interesting. I would've thought it would be an exact match, the idea being that the factory accidentally switched the red and green hair and didn't "catch it" until a few ponies had been made. Does it match any other MLP's hair? Fizzy's dark green maybe?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2016, 12:48:30 PM

Other things I'm noticing about Ember's pics she's already shared with us is the spacing of the streak and how its rooted. I'll be really interested to see the eyes up close. I feel like this is a mystery we have to nail down as much as possible, because until we do, we're always going to have questionmarks over authenticity of other RG ponies, so I really think it's pony autopsy time.

The streak sure does look darker in Ember's photo.

I wonder about checking it against SS Gusty, though? Just in case. Which release of Gusty it matches most closely OUGHT to give us some clue as to production time period...maybe.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 06, 2016, 01:25:10 PM

Ok ill get a ss gusty and do a comparison ;)
Here is an eye comparison and a closup of the silvery symbols.

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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2016, 01:57:09 PM

Thank you, that is awesomely helpful :D The comparison is of the two, fake RG and real RG, correct? With the real one on the right (with the necklace)?

It makes me think that this is a factory error pony as regards Fable Pony Gusty, aka Scandinavian Gusty. This based on her features = eyes and mane.

This was never sold in the UK, but the UK was involved in packaging Fable ponies for Scandinavia in some regard, as the cards for the fable set are all UK-art style designed and marked UK.

The original Wolfchick RG may have ended up in the UK for this reason. It is also possible that she was a test, and Hasbro decided to stick with the original Gusty colour scheme (bear in mind that Fable Moondancer is yellow, not white, so a colour variation in another character is possible).

I can believe one getting here if she was sent here as a suggestion in terms of colour palette. I can't imagine how a whole bunch of them would've come here if they were just factory errors, as they would have been loose in HK, not in the UK. If they were never going to be packaged and sold, there would have been no point, especially as Hasbro UK only handled these for export purposes. The only logical reason in my opinion that a reverse Gusty would have been here is if she had been sent deliberately to Hasbro to look at, which wouldn't have happened with a factory error. And if she wasn't a factory error, it implies that authentic multiples, while not impossible, are less likely.

If she was sent a sample of colour options, then her presence in the UK would be explained, even if the pony itself was never going to be a UK release. And if Hasbro UK decided on what colour palette the Fable ponies had, it would explain her being in the UK.

In short, all the alleged versions appearing in the UK actually make the authenticity of this variation more suspect, rather than less. If they were showing up in Scandinavia, it might be seen as a variation there - and if they were showing up in the US, it might be seen as Hasbro experimenting. To show up in the one place in numbers that the pony was never going to be sold in regular form, let alone alternate form is the thing that makes it most suspicious to me. It seems a hangover from the days of everything unusual being ascribed to the UK market, and, as a result, this has been capitalised on in terms of counterfeiting RG for the mass market. FOr some reason, people are more inclined to believe if it is said to come from the UK, even if that association is a weak one that doesn't really make much overall sense.

This issue is compounded for me by the fact there's some circumstantial evidence that Gusty may not have been included in the UK line at all, given Ribbon's depiction in club artwork and mention on 1986 backcards. Gusty's greater prominence in the movie is probably what got her released here - but that seems an afterthought, since Ribbon would've been a pose match to Buttons.

We probably never will know for sure, but it seems likely to me that RG is an alternate of the Fable pony Gusty.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 06, 2016, 02:08:15 PM

Yes the real one is on the right with the necklace on :)

I also want to mention that the red haired tootsie that I have is one of 2 identical ponies that have been found. Mine was bought from the Hasbro employee store in Rhode island by a little girls father who had a day pass back in the 80's. And there was one in Helens collection as well. Another well known collector, kitkatvintage, now has her. Both of these ponies also have slightly different symbols than the regular release.

Perhaps these oddities were created in very small batches? Maybe like the Thailand boys were? Production tests?

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,306557.20/wap2.html

In reverse gustys case maybe they were scandinavian production tests?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2016, 02:18:40 PM

Maybe. The problem with that assumption is that it derives from RI, not from the UK. We know (you have some of the proof! LOL) that Hasbro UK did some really odd things for production (like painting ponies, and so on). We also have the issue of Susie and Billie. It's not for sure if Lady G's Billie is or is not the one whose photo was circulated online before she acquired hers - we've never managed to trace the source of that image or whether the pony was the same one or not. My Susie seems to be a one and only, which implies that sample ponies (if that is what Susie is, and we don't know for sure) came in the singular, if they weren't painted. Hasbro UK liked to save money by repeating particular poses for certain sets, painting ponies (like your Paintingtime..?), cutting ponies from sets that were bigger in the US, cutting whole sets and so on. The Thai Mountain Boys have turned up in people's childhood collections from ponies bought new on card, so although they are strange, they were sold. We haven't any evidence of RG in that sense at present. I would love it if we did, but we don't.

So I can see her as a one off sample, like your Paintingtime, or Susie - but I don't think Hasbro UK ever had the resources to go wholesale on production experiments. If they did, I'm sure we'd have had a lot more ponies here than we ultimately did, such as 2nd set TAF, Rainbow, Princesses etc, instead or just continuing to produce and release the original set.

It's pretty much for sure they didn't bother making Paradise or selling PE here under their own steam, just used the US set without Paradise, as the boxes here in the UK are the US box. They planned a pony, created a prototype, advertised it then never made it at all. We don't even have advertising for Gusty's set here. I genuinely can't imagine Hasbro UK pushing the boat out on an export item when they didn't do it on their native sold products!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 06, 2016, 02:36:07 PM

Good Points Taffeta. I wish we knew more. Well here is a recap of what we currently know..

Reverse Gusty Characteristics

- She was found in the UK although she probably originated from scandinavia.

- Her symbols are unique unto herself. The symbols are silvery purple instead of stark purple. The delicate pattern is different from the UK, Scandinavia or standard HK release. ( I have compared her to as many pictures of scandinavian gusty as I can find and the symbols are very different)

- Her stripe is a slightly deeper green than the HK Gusty (I still need to compare her to a SS gusty)

- Her hair is factory woven and has distinct factory glue for the finish

- She has a small tail washer.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 06, 2016, 02:56:18 PM

Taffeta and Ember1 there are some lovely comparison pictures of UK, US and Scandinavian Gusty in the nirvana gallery :)

http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=216621

Ember1 I know you are certain that your first pony is fake, how did ypu come to own her and what made you feel iffy about her? Was it a gut feeling that she wasnt "right". I remember you asking about testing her a while back.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 06, 2016, 03:34:25 PM

I was never 100 percent certain she was fake.. but I suspected there was a chance she wasn't real ..I think it was something to do with her weave on the inside of her head.. It seemed very lock and loop technique to me. I got her from an eBay auction 10 years ago.. The auction was from a lady I believe who was in the US if I recall right.

But It wasn't until I could hold the real reverse gusty and do a side by side comparison that I now see the major differences..

Fake weave
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Real Weave
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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 06, 2016, 04:10:24 PM

I can't find any photos of my scandi gusty, which is infuriating, they must have been on the hard drive I lost, and not online for some reason, but I feel like I remember her being weird, and I'm sure I posted about that somewhere, although it was probably on fb, and I'll never find the post. Something about her wasn't like the one posted in the nirvana gallery here, because I'd studied it when I was actively looking for her, and I remember when I got her (after I stopped looking, she popped up on ebay here sold as a normal Gusty, I think I paid $7 or something) and something about your RG just felt familiar to me, I'm sure it's the silvery symbols, which I probably attributed to fading or something. She's packed away at the moment, if I could get at her I'd know for sure, but my packed ponies are under all the stuff from my Mum's house, and there's a LOT of that, she lived in that house for 25 years.. No pony is escaping from there right now!

At any rate, she feels Scandinavian to me. I know that's probably really stupid, and I'm no Nirvana expert, but that's how I feel about her. At any rate, she's beautiful and HUGE congrats Ember!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: shadowlark on April 06, 2016, 04:22:57 PM

Wow, Ember, whoever did that fake one really went all out trying to mimic the hair weave. Good eye to catch that! Scammers suck! :pullhair: :argh: :enraged:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on April 06, 2016, 04:45:59 PM

Thank you for sharing this!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 06, 2016, 09:58:10 PM

I don't think the 2nd reverse Gusty is necessarily fake. It's true that she is not quite the same as the most documented reverse Gusty (the one that used to be Wolfie's), but the factory weave still looks convincing to me (and it can be messier on some ponies than on others) and lots of ponies have small variations in symbol color and so on.

Does Scandi Gusty normally have glitter symbols? Or painted symbols?

To me reverse Gusty feels more like "factory mishairs" than production samples. Just because the hair was "wrong" doesn't mean Hasbro quality control would automatically toss the pony. I mean, Hasbro let a bunch of Twinkle Eye ponies get sold on Baby Sea Pony cards, which I think would be much more obvious to a factory worker than the wrong hair color. To a factory worker, this is a flaw that would not be as obvious as, for example, a missing symbol. They want the pony to have nice hair; the pony has nice hair.

But this is assuming that Scandi Gusty normally does have glitter symbols. If she normally has painted symbols then, yeah, a sample makes more sense.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 06, 2016, 11:02:14 PM

Scandi Gusty has glitter symbols and green eyes, she's like a cross between the two NSS Gusty's.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: ladygodiva on April 07, 2016, 03:11:18 AM

I do not think that is necessarily a fake. It's too perfect to be a fake. Some prototype, perhaps? Two versions of the ponies?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 07, 2016, 06:16:50 AM

If she was simply a mishair then she would have the exact same symbols as hong kong gusty. Her symbols dont match any gusty. They are silvery purple instead of stark purple and have delicate and detailed leaves instead of clunky leaves. I have compared her symbol to the fake gusty, a hong kong gusty, and all the photos i can find of the scandinavian gustys and its not the same.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 07, 2016, 10:43:59 AM

I have been having a dig about for Scandinavian Gusty threads :)

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,331722.msg789101.html#msg789101

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,294437.0.html

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,349318.msg1092304.html#msg1092304

Some information on sets/releases :)

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,290686.0.html

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 07, 2016, 10:50:42 AM

I did a look through your information PWK. Thanks so much

The color of the scandinavian symbol compared to my reverse gusty is spot on.
The way the hair falls is also spot on.
What bothers me is her symbols are shaped differently. The stems on my reverse gusty are very thin and curve more. Perhaps she was a scandinavian test color for the fable gusty and they used a slightly different stencil on her?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 07, 2016, 03:53:27 PM

Quote from: kellyponyfeathers on April 06, 2016, 12:23:34 AM

Wow. I can't believe Sarah-Bee sold her Reverse Gusty. :shocked:

My thoughts exactly! :shocked:

Congrats though ember1 she is beautiful and one of my faves! :heart:

Here is my girl:
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I got mine on Ebay UK in an unmarked auction i think 10 years ago now, her head was sealed when i got her but i opened her up to check her weave, i did try and get mine confirmed yonks ago as I messaged Kcat and hoped i could send her to so she could test the glue on her neck but she never replied. :( The factory weave makes me believe mines is genuine as it is extremely neat and looks like a fish tail braid close up (hard to see in pic) although mines doesnt appear to have glue inside her head!? Not sure if rehairers tend to glue inside ponies heads or not as i dont have alot of experience with them!?

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I do have Scandanavian Gusty (i will need to take comparison pics). I havent noticed much difference between them other than my reverse gusty has black/brown lashes and my scandi has black lashes (again hard to notice will try and take comparisons) and their symbols are slightly different. Ill add pics tomorrow!

Thats neat about the streak being darker im going to compare mine in daylight! I also need to check her washer!

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 07, 2016, 04:33:20 PM

Out of curiousity babydoll can you take pictures of the inside of scandinavian gustys head? I would like to see what ger factory weave looks like ;)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 08, 2016, 06:55:27 AM

The weave inside BabyDoll's pony and Ember1's pony is just spot on. They look identical, right down to the symbols and the darker green stripe :bigups:

Perhaps the darker green stripe is the biggest thing to look out for now as well as the shorter hair?

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 08, 2016, 07:18:53 AM

Its the symbols that is the give away PKW
If you notice babydolls symbols are the same as my reverse gusty. Slightly curved very thin stems.

There is no way a customizer can match them since the scandinavian gusty, hk gusty and uk gusty all have different symbols. The symbols on scandi gusty have straight stems not curved.

The real is on the right the fake is on the left.
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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 08, 2016, 11:28:18 AM

Quote from: pinkkittywinks on April 08, 2016, 06:55:27 AM

The weave inside BabyDoll's pony and Ember1's pony is just spot on. They look identical, right down to the symbols and the darker green stripe :bigups:

Love pkw xxx

Yay! :heart:

I checked mine today and she does have a darker stripe compared to gusty i cant believe i had never noticed this before, well done for spotting that ember1!

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I actually have two scandinavian gusty's although one is in very bad shape and clearly needs an oxy bath but still thought i would use her for comparison! Heres a pic inside there heads:

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I also took pics of the slight shade difference of eye lashes might be hard to notice as it doesnt show in most pics but shes the only gusty in my collection with brown/black lashes. Both the scandinavian Gusty's have black lashes. Im sure i have seen Shady with brown lashes though il need to check my MOC set.

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I compared the scandinavian washers and they all look the same size:

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Yeah I also noticed the stems were more smaller at the base & pointed/curved at the ends. Also slight size difference with some of the leaves! I also think she might have a dark pink outline underneith as mines has a bit of glitter loss in some areas. Heres comparrison pics:

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Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 08, 2016, 11:43:29 AM

Your comparison symbol pics Are awesome. Yes i think the reverse gusty mystery is finally cracked. I think we can now tell the difference between the real and fake ones when they surface. There are noticable differences.
Awesome photos though. Good to see yours has a darker green stripe too.
The inside of the scandi gustys look similiar to the RG weave.
i think my RG has black eye lashes though. Check out my photo. The real one is on the right.

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Maybe yours have faded?

THE REVERSE GUSTY CHARACTERISTICS:
1. Darker green stripe in mane
2. Pointed and curved leaves in symbols of a silvery purple color. Symbols have a more detailed and delicate appearance than the regular or Scandi releases.
3. Factory woven head and small tail washer

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Darkenmiu on April 08, 2016, 12:34:38 PM

Very interesting discussion and awesome photos!!! Much appreciated. I wish I could own one some day. Congrats on your real RG Ember1!!! :heart: :heart: :heart:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 08, 2016, 12:42:39 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 08, 2016, 11:43:29 AM

Your comparison symbol pics Are awesome. Yes i think the reverse gusty mystery is finally cracked. I think we can now tell the difference between the real and fake ones when they surface. There are noticable differences.
Awesome photos though. Good to see yours has a darker green stripe too.
The inside of the scandi gustys look similiar to the RG weave.
i think my RG has black eye lashes though. Check out my photo. The real one is on the right.

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Maybe yours have faded?

THE REVERSE GUSTY CHARACTERISTICS:
1. Darker green stripe in main.
2. Pointed and curved leaves in symbols of a silvery purple color. Symbols have a more detailed and delicate appearance than the regular or Scandi releases.
3. Factory woven head and small tail washer

Yeah i thought that too! Hmmm I dont think lashes can fade :huh: but not 100% sure about that, my gusty is slightly yellowed though. I only got the colour comparison to show up in pics by using a light box as i had taken a few pics in daylight but they looked black. Im sure I have seen a Shady with brown/black lashes though!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: DazzleKitty on April 08, 2016, 01:34:11 PM

I love mystery ponies like these. Where did they originate from? Why are there so few? Very interesting discussion. Congrats to those of you who are lucky enough to own a RG of your own. I can only be so lucky to find one at a flea market. My own salary would not let me afford one. XD But that's okay, I can look at your photos and admire.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyGuinevere on April 08, 2016, 01:35:22 PM

Really enjoying all these comparison pics!

Babydoll, I remember that auction! Have you had her all this time? I think I still have the original auction pic saved :)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 09, 2016, 12:18:13 AM

Quote from: LadyGuinevere on April 08, 2016, 01:35:22 PM

Really enjoying all these comparison pics!

Babydoll, I remember that auction! Have you had her all this time? I think I still have the original auction pic saved :)

Yup shes the same girl! :heart:

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kellyponyfeathers on April 17, 2016, 03:46:32 PM

All this discussion made me curious, so I finally took pics of the inside of my Reverse Gusty. I'm not experienced at judging such things, but her weave looks pretty neat and tidy to me. There's just one single red hair near the bottom that loops out somewhat. I see some glue as well.

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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 17, 2016, 07:49:43 PM

The weave looks about right to me. How about her green stripe? Is it darker than the normal green on hk gusty?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kellyponyfeathers on April 17, 2016, 09:50:28 PM

Welllll, that was actually the first thing I checked, since it was the easiest. And all the greens looked about the same to me. So initially I was disappointed because I thought that meant my RG was a fake. But then I checked her weave and washer, and they looked about right, so I thought maybe she was real after all. And then I noticed that all the above pics of real RG's stripe vs. regular Gusty green showed regular green being moved alongside real RG's stripe. In each photo, real RG's streak is lying normally along her red hair. And that made me wonder if real RG's green streak really is darker, or if it just appears darker above the background of her red hair. (Red and green are opposites.) When I checked mine, I separated RG's green streak and compared it to regular Gusty's tail. (And I decarded this Gusty myself, so I'm positive her hair is original.)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 07:03:48 AM

The green stripe of my reverse gusty is definately slightly darker. I Have compared them in all lights and side by side. Babydoll also says hers has a darker green stripe too. I cant see very well the symbols on yours either to see if the symbols are the same as our gustys. Check for the following features in broad daylight.

THE REVERSE GUSTY CHARACTERISTICS:
1. Has slightly darker green stripe in mane
2. Has pointed and curved leaves in symbols of a silvery purple color.
Symbols have a more detailed and delicate appearance than the regular or Scandi releases.
3. Has factory woven head and small tail washer
4. Has slightly more cherry red hair with a heavy pink overtone
5. Has a lighter color for her thick eyebrows and a black color for her eye lashes

I also took a picture of her eye in direct daylight as opposed to flourescent light. It looks like babydoll is right. Her eyebrow is a lighter color than her lashes. Does yours have the same feature? Check all of the above characteristics in broad daylight. It is not super easy to notice some of them but once you know what to look for it becomes pretty obvious what the differences are.

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Here is another photo. Real rev gusty is on the left and fake gusty is on the right. The stripe is slightly darker. Try comparing the stripe on yours in daylight.
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I also got curious about the red in her mane and tail. Something is bringing the green stripe to an even darker hue. Albers color theory teaches about putting color on other colors to change the hue. If the two gustys red had the same hue then the two stripes wouldnt appear so different since when side by side one of green stripes look only slightly darker. I noticed that the real reverse gustys red hair has a great deal of a pink overtone in it. And its a more saturated cherry red than the fake gusty. The differences are small but noticable to me anyways. Real is on the left and fake is on the right.

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Real on the top and fake on the bottom.

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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 18, 2016, 12:53:04 PM

Kelly - I too thought perhaps the green looked dark due to contrast with the brightness of the red, but there really is a difference as can be seen in the pictures :)

Ember1 - the texture of the hair looks different as well as the colour.

I'm going to have a look for a thread that I remember from a while back on the hair colour of Scandinavian Hopsotch as I believe her hair colour is slightly different to her regular release.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 01:18:00 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 07:03:48 AM

The green stripe of my reverse gusty is definately slightly darker. I Have compared them in all lights and side by side. Babydoll also says hers has a darker green stripe too. I cant see very well the symbols on yours either to see if the symbols are the same as our gustys. Check for the following features in broad daylight.

THE REVERSE GUSTY CHARACTERISTICS:
1. Has slightly darker green stripe in mane
2. Has pointed and curved leaves in symbols of a silvery purple color.
Symbols have a more detailed and delicate appearance than the regular or Scandi releases.
3. Has factory woven head and small tail washer
4. Has slightly more shinny silky cherry red hair with a heavy pink overtone
5. Has a lighter color for her thick eyebrows and a black color for her eye lashes

I also took a picture of her eye in direct daylight as opposed to flourescent light. It looks like babydoll is right. Her eyebrow is a lighter color than her lashes. Does yours have the same feature? Check all of the above characteristics in broad daylight. It is not super easy to notice some of them but once you know what to look for it becomes pretty obvious what the differences are.

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Here is another photo. Real rev gusty is on the left and fake gusty is on the right. The stripe is slightly darker. Try comparing the stripe on yours in daylight.
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I also got curious about the red in her mane and tail. Something is bringing the green stripe to an even darker hue. Albers color theory teaches about putting color on other colors to change the hue. If the two gustys red had the same hue then the two stripes wouldnt appear so different since when side by side one of green stripes look only slightly darker. I noticed that the real reverse gustys red hair has a great deal of a pink overtone in it. And its a more saturated cherry red than the fake gusty. The differences are small but noticable to me anyways. Real is on the left and fake is on the right.

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Real on the top and fake on the bottom.

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Quote from: pinkkittywinks on April 18, 2016, 12:53:04 PM

Kelly - I too thought perhaps the green looked dark due to contrast with the brightness of the red, but there really is a difference as can be seen in the pictures :)

Ember1 - the texture of the hair looks different as well as the colour.

I'm going to have a look for a thread that I remember from a while back on the hair colour of Scandinavian Hopsotch as I believe her hair colour is slightly different to her regular release.

Love pkw xxx

Yes PWK.. The fake gustys hair is a flat color and its more voluminous.. The real reverse gusty is silky smooth and has a lot of dimension and pink overtone to her hair..

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 18, 2016, 01:43:46 PM

Yes, matte or flat is the way I see it as well :)

I've still not found that thread yet about the hair >_<

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 01:48:05 PM

Im excited to read it when you find it PKW

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 18, 2016, 01:57:33 PM

Kelly the green shade is so subtle iv had mine since 2008 and didnt even notice it until ember1 pointed it out!

I took this pic in direct sunlight, you can just about see her streak is slightly a shade darker (it shows better in my lightbox):
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The last comparison pic i took was in my light box so if you have a light box take a pic of her in that as it will pick up the shade difference! P.S The weave and washer in yours looks extremely neat & similar :bigups:

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 18, 2016, 02:05:20 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 01:48:05 PM

Im excited to read it when you find it PKW

I can only find a mention here...

http://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=313332.0

The discussion I had must have been via PM with Cat. I do recall side by side pictures and the hair looking a different texture/colour on each pony. I think the mane was also a different length, shorter on the Scandinavian release.

The part rehair didn't go ahead due to the colour difference.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 18, 2016, 02:08:08 PM

And the the brown eyeliner can be missed at first glance. It wasn't until babydoll pointed it out that I had to go back and think about different lighting to see what is there.originally I thought mine had black eyeliner until i brought her outside in the daylight.. You can very easily miss the differences if your not looking for them. The most obvious difference is her symbols.. That distinguishes her from any other gusty. Since the symbols on your gusty are smeared or faded, I would do the eyebrow color check in the daylight. Then you can also do the stripe comparison as well :) Since we know there were good customizers out there with the mane rehairing that alone would not be enough for me to be convinced. See if she has the brown eyebrows and the darker shade green stripe :) Fingers crossed for you :) It looks good so far. Plus I lean towards thinking yours is real because she was around at a very early time period too :) SO I give her extra points for that. The one symbol I can see looks curved and pointed so thats good news too. Just check the eyeliner for us would you?

PKW.. I think you stumbled onto something.. Hathorcat says in that post

"Yes there is a Scandinavian version too...however her only real difference is her eyeliner being brown rather than black - as PKW says its a super minor variation though."

So scandinavian hopscotch has brown eyeliner too?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: mlp4me on April 18, 2016, 02:23:02 PM

She's gorgeous!!

(I'm pretty sure I've beheaded my cherry treats. I just don't know if I kept the washer... Might get you some pics soon.)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: SpaceButtPonies on April 18, 2016, 03:18:22 PM

Wow, this thread is really interesting! These RG look amazing!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: princessluna11706 on April 18, 2016, 07:11:55 PM

I'm really learning a lot with this thread, and getting a lot of eye candy :lovey:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 18, 2016, 07:22:12 PM

Real and fake! I'm in looooove with your reverse Gusty! She's amazing and Gusty is one of my favorite unicorns period! I just wanna brush her hair or something wow!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kellyponyfeathers on April 18, 2016, 10:09:26 PM

Hmm, those differences are sooo subtle! Well, I guess I need to look again and take more pics. I'm afraid it's going to have to wait until the weekend, though. I don't really have time to do it during the week. Thanks for the replies!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: SpookyTrees on April 19, 2016, 10:57:47 AM

This discussion is fascinating and I am also learning a lot. Your ponies are all beautiful and the Canadian in me really feels she needs one all of a sudden :)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 19, 2016, 12:02:09 PM

If anyone is interested in the fake one I will be selling her. Send me a pm if your interested SpookyTrees :)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 21, 2016, 12:52:44 PM

Does reverse Gusty's red match up with regular Gusty's red stripe, or is it a different color? And has anyone done a comparison with Cherry Treat's tail? If someone was making a fake they might take the hair from a Cherry Treat.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 21, 2016, 01:57:10 PM

Hi Lady Moondancer.

My suspicion is that the fake RG was made with the tail and washer of cherry treats. I don't have a cherry treats in my collection but it would be an interesting thing to look into. I will have to check the red of the real reverse gusty and compare it to the red of gusty's stripe. Good thought!

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 25, 2016, 09:41:12 AM

Thoughts on this girl? The one with the pink ribbon is the Scandinavian version & the one in front is my childhood US release.

Edit because photobucket has ate my file...
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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 25, 2016, 12:40:33 PM

I don't think its possible to tell by just one photo.. the stems look more a little more curved from what I can see. Can you send us more photos of her? Also where did you get her?
Check for the following characteristics when your comparing her to the normal gusty and the UK gusty.

THE REVERSE GUSTY CHARACTERISTICS:
1. Has slightly darker green stripe in mane
2. Has pointed and curved leaves in symbols of a silvery purple color.
Symbols have a more detailed and delicate appearance than the regular or Scandi releases.
3. Has factory woven head and small tail washer
4. Has slightly more shinny silky cherry red hair with a heavy pink overtone
5. Has a lighter brown color for her thick eyebrows and a black color for her eye lashes

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 25, 2016, 12:48:26 PM

I'll have to get my light box set up to take additional clear pictures. I'll post where she came from after people weigh in with opinions, so her origins doesn't sway opinions. ;)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 25, 2016, 12:54:12 PM

I think we need to look at location as well kitakitavintage. Its not the determining factor of course as we know ponies travel.
So far Babydolls and mine were found in the UK. As well as the Delaney's RG which as also a UK find.

We do know for a fact my fake gusty was found in the US.. So it
does matter a bit as to where she came from. I think with Reverse Gustys, clear paper trails
regarding ownership and origination are very important. Especially as we look to try and authenticate those in the community.
Again its not essential but it adds to the larger picture of authentication.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyGuinevere on April 25, 2016, 02:10:15 PM

I thought one of the originals came from the US? Can't remember which one though, and ponies do travel. Wolfiechick was a US person as I recall, as were the Delaneys and TWO non-British residents finding them in the UK when at that time no UK people found them seems a little odd. Babydoll's was an ebay UK auction though.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK\\\'s AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 25, 2016, 07:38:01 PM

I’m aware that origins & a trail of ownership plays a big part in authenticating a rare pony. What I’m most interested in, is if we are able to confirm or deny a real Reverse Gusty based on looks since there are at least 2 examples that have matching definitive features. ;)

So here is my girl. I will share where she came from later, but I want to see how people think she compares to the ponies that Ember & Babydoll own. :)
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Symbols:

Spoiler

Left Sides
Reverse Gusty:
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Scand. Gusty:
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US Gusty:
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Group:
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Right Sides
Reverse Gusty:
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Reverse & Scand.
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Group:
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Hair:

Spoiler

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Compared to Cherry Treats:
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Compared to Scand. Gusty:
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Compared to Scand. & US:
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Eyes:

Spoiler

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Washer:

Spoiler

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US Gusty (her head was already loose. My Scandinavian Gusty and Cherry Treats' heads are sealed so their washers are not available to compare. ) :
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Hair Stitching & Neck:
Reverse Gusty’s head is still partially attached at the back of her neck. I took pictures as best as I could without ripping her head away from her body.

Spoiler

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Post Merge: April 25, 2016, 07:47:21 PM

My connection is killing me tonight. I think I have the multiple posts cleaned up now. Apparently photobucket & my laptop do not get along. :blush:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 25, 2016, 09:19:09 PM

Just a clarification... My gusty was bought in a uk lot by wolfiechick.. So she was technically sold by a uk person to a community member in the US. And the delaneys bought theirs from someone in the UK that found it at a car boot sale. So yes they all have been found in the UK so far including babydoll's.

The evidence looks good so far. From what i have seen i am leaning toward authentic. The symbols are the dead give away. They are the right shape. The hair color has a pink overtone too. It seems spot on with my reverse gusty. Its not the flat color of cherry treats.

Can you tell me if she has brown eyeliner? I can't tell from the photos.
I am going to measure the gustys tail washer tomorrow and let you know if the washer size is normal.
Her symbols looks very pinkish.. Is she missing lots of glitter?

Can you get some better shots of the inside of her head? In daylight would be best. I am having a hard time seeing what
is happening in there.

What do you think babydoll?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 26, 2016, 08:22:49 AM

Her eyeliner is definitely brown. Its similar to the brown eyeliner of NSS Truly & Cupcake.

The symbols have a good bit of glitter loss... consistent with an average "played with" pony. Her body is slightly yellowed & the end of her tail is a bit dry. Her general condition is on par with my childhood Gusty who I can say was played with a lot. :P

I'll see if I can get more pics of the inside of her head. Since the head is still attached to the body at the base of the neck, it's hard to get a clear shot of the inside due to the limited angle. There's definitely glue in the green section. The upper part looks like a tightly stitched factory weave near the horn and through the midsection, while the last bit near the neck is a bit loopier.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 26, 2016, 08:31:34 AM

If her eyeliner is brown i would say she's legit. No scammer would have known about that and the normal scandi gusty has black eyeliner.
Everything else checks out. Her symbols, hair, stripe, and eyeliner.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 26, 2016, 11:56:25 AM

Ember1 and Babydoll what is the diameter of your RG's washers?

Ember1, Babydoll and KKV how long does the mane measure?

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Galactica on April 26, 2016, 01:14:04 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 26, 2016, 08:31:34 AM

If her eyeliner is brown i would say she's legit. No scammer would have known about that and the normal scandi gusty has black eyeliner.
Everything else checks out. Her symbols, hair, stripe, and eyeliner.

Don't you guys think that maybe the scammer may be a part of the pony community? That's what would worry me- why else make a fake "reverse gusty" ?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 26, 2016, 01:28:03 PM

The brown eyeliner was just discovered by babydoll. It would have been inpossible for a scammer to have known about this previously. The symbol differences are a new discovery too. It was previously thought she had the scandinavian or us glitter symbol. We now know she has a unique symbol.
So even if a community member was a scammer they still would not have known these details until the last few weeks. And even then it would be very very hard to replicate.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: snyfez on April 26, 2016, 01:59:43 PM

I love how scientific/ CSI this post is! I am also impressed by the level of expertise in the community.

*makes note to not commit murder around Ember1 as she would clearly catch me*

:P

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 26, 2016, 02:30:10 PM

Quote from: snyfez on April 26, 2016, 01:59:43 PM

*makes note to not commit murder around Ember1 as she would clearly catch me*

:P

Only if it involves a pony. :silly:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Galactica on April 26, 2016, 02:43:50 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 26, 2016, 01:28:03 PM

The brown eyeliner was just discovered by babydoll. It would have been inpossible for a scammer to have known about this previously. The symbol differences are a new discovery too. It was previously thought she had the scandinavian or us glitter symbol. We now know she has a unique symbol.
So even if a community member was a scammer they still would not have known these details until the last few weeks. And even then it would be very very hard to replicate.

Ah! Well I am also impressed with the analysis.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 27, 2016, 08:30:19 AM

Kitkatvintage I would lean more towards authentic too :heart: I agree about seeing a closer pic of her weave. Also intrigued to know where she came from?

Quote from: pinkkittywinks on April 26, 2016, 11:56:25 AM

Ember1 and Babydoll what is the diameter of your RG's washers?

Ember1, Babydoll and KKV how long does the mane measure?

Love pkw xxx

I won't be able to take pics of mine until Friday. :)

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 01:14:36 PM

My RG mane measures 3.2 inches long

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK\'s AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 05:20:14 PM

The mane on mine measures about 3 inches to 3 1/16 inches. It does not curve as far around the neck as the pictures of Ember's on page one. My childhood US Gusty's mane also measures 3 1/16 inches (I know hers was never trimmed). My Scandinavian Gusty's mane is just slightly longer at 3 1/8 inches.

The tail measures 5 11/16 inches.

Post Merge: April 27, 2016, 05:32:40 PM

Another note about the coffee brown eyeliner... As I've recently been photographing all of my collection, I've noticed several US sets produced in "year 6" 1987/88 and "year 7" 1988/89 also have that same brown eyeliner. I'm wondering if the Pony Friends set with NSS Truly & Cupcake was also produced around that time. If so, it could pin an approximate year of manufacture to the Reverse Gusty.

And ultimately what I'm wondering is this: if the UK got the Princesses, Happy Tails, & Flutter Variants, is it possible that the Reverse Gusty is another pony that was sold as part of those "mix up"/"factory errors"/"end of the line"?

For what it's worth, my Happy Tails variants have brown eyeliner, too. ;)

Edit to add:
So I've looked around a bit & I think I have the years for the ponies used in the Princess & Happy Tails variants and Pony Friends set. If anyone can verify this or add to it, please do!
Princesses in the UK - 1987
Princesses in Germany (regular colors) - 1987
Princesses in Germany (alt colors) - 1988??
Happy Tails UK & Europe - 1988
Pony Friends (NSS Truly & Cupcake) - 1988
...this matches up to the years that several US sets had brown eyeliner, so maybe (and this is a big MAYBE) we can assume that Reverse Gusty would have been made around 1987/88 when other ponies were being produced with brown eyeliner AND when ponies who ended up in the UK variant batches were produced.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 06:31:05 PM

I am pulling the hair straight when I measure kitkatvintage. Are you doing that too?

The oddball uk variants were just made from left over mixed parts. Since the real reverse gusty differs symbol wise from the UK version, it is highly unlikely in my opinion she could be from that late time period.

I believe Reverse Gusty is a scandinavian test run. The Real Reverse gusty has her own unique symbol, hair and eyeliner and is very detailed compared to the scandi gusty but matches the scandi version most closely out of all the gustys made elsewhere.. THE GLITTER is the giveaway. Comparing Reverse Gusty Glitter to Scandi Gusty Glitter they both have the same silvery purple glitter.. Whereas the US gusty glitter is a stark heavy purple color by contrast.

I believe she was made in a small test run batch and may have been shipped to the UK for approval since they were making the packaging for the Scandinavian countries.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 07:04:17 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 06:31:05 PM

I am pulling the hair straight when I measure kitkatvintage. Are you doing that too?

Yes.
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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 07:05:49 PM

Ok ill check with a ruler.. I was checking with a tape measure before.. Ill measure again and see if there is any difference

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 07:25:44 PM

I think I've found a Hasbro match for RG's hair color as well. Some of my Kimber dolls have a very cherry pink shade compared to the more common true red that most Kimbers have. The cherry Kimbers are mostly the 2nd Year versions (1987) with a few 1st Year versions.

I think the UK Glow In The Dark Princess Royal Blue variant used hair left over from the Moondreamers line. It's possible that Reverse Gusty was made using left over stock of the later Kimbers' hair in the then discontinued Jem line.

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The brown eyeliner is unique compared to other Gusties, but it's not unique in the whole MLP line.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 07:54:00 PM

I think that anything is possible.. But I still don't buy that the UK made her.. To me the evidence that she's a Scandinavian release is too strong. Mine has silvery purple glitter symbols match Scandi gustys silvery purple symbols even though the stencils are different. And the UK didn't release any ponies with glitter symbols so I find it a bit odd that they would do this for just this one pony.
I think the Reverse Gusty was a small Scandinavian test batch and for whatever reason was dumped or abandoned in the UK. Probably had to do with packaging related errors since the UK was responsible for the packaging of the Scandinavian line.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 08:42:09 PM

I'm not saying that she was made in or for the UK market either.

My thoughts are just that she was made in some quantity (even if that quantity was very small) then packaged and sold in the same manner as the Princess Variants & company which appear to have been made primarily to use up leftover stock. The matching hair shade with later Kimber dolls and the brown eyeliner point to a possibility of being made around '87/88.

It's just a theory to put her somewhere in the timeline of pony production. ;)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 27, 2016, 09:16:41 PM

Or it could be a combination of our two theories :)
Suppose the Scandinavian countries made her in a small quantity for a packaging test run but for some reason decided to release the more normal looking gusty. Perhaps the UK packaged up the remnants of the small production and distributed them when they were running out of stock around 87 or 88?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 28, 2016, 05:16:34 AM

Quote from: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 07:25:44 PM

I think the UK Glow In The Dark Princess Royal Blue variant used hair left over from the Moondreamers line.

We need LadyG! From what I remember her saying I don't think the hair was a match and the only Moon Dreamer I have had in my hand had pink hair so I can't help :blush:

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK\'s AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 28, 2016, 11:54:50 AM

My reverse gusty doesnt match my red haired tootsie either.
Her hair color is still more pink and tootsie has an orangy red.

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Post Merge: April 28, 2016, 12:12:10 PM

I measured with a ruler.. Mine reverse gusty mane is 3.2 inches long

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyGuinevere on April 28, 2016, 01:30:13 PM

Quote from: pinkkittywinks on April 28, 2016, 05:16:34 AM

Quote from: kitkatvintage on April 27, 2016, 07:25:44 PM

I think the UK Glow In The Dark Princess Royal Blue variant used hair left over from the Moondreamers line.

We need LadyG! From what I remember her saying I don't think the hair was a match and the only Moon Dreamer I have had in my hand had pink hair so I can't help :blush:

Love pkw xxx

The consistency is definitely the same, but I have only ever had one Moondreamer to compare with, and that one is a rare UK variant apparently! I have suggested it may have been a possibility since the feel is the same, but I don't know enough of the Moondreamer line to know what other figures are out there. The GITD hair on the ponies is quite green, but my Moondreamer is definitely blue.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 28, 2016, 02:09:17 PM

Ember the red is different, how does Tootsie's red compare to regular Gusty's stripe?

LadyG the texture is the same :) it was the first thing I noticed when I got Whimsy. I think the other dolls I briefly looked at online didn't seem to be a match, but it's hard when you can't compare things in real life.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 28, 2016, 02:35:56 PM

I don't have any Moondreamers to compare Glow In The Dark Royal Blue to, but my first guess was that she matched Whimzee the blue-green haired one. There was a green haired doll planned for their 1988 line which was canceled before going into production. She's near the bottom of this page with the peacock pet:
http://www.ghostofthedoll.co.uk/moondreamers-unproduced.php

I will try to get some pictures of my RG with the red haired Tootsie I have as well.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 28, 2016, 03:29:46 PM

How about Skyflier.. Does anyone have a sky flyer to compare the RG hair to?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 28, 2016, 03:30:32 PM

Quote from: kitkatvintage on April 28, 2016, 02:35:56 PM

I don't have any Moondreamers to compare Glow In The Dark Royal Blue to, but my first guess was that she matched Whimzee the blue-green haired one. There was a green haired doll planned for their 1988 line which was canceled before going into production. She's near the bottom of this page with the peacock pet:
http://www.ghostofthedoll.co.uk/moondreamers-unproduced.php

I will try to get some pictures of my RG with the red haired Tootsie I have as well.

It does indeed look like it should be a match :bigups:

I got the dolls name totally wrong, the doll I had was the one that comes with the bear......Binky :)

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 28, 2016, 06:12:54 PM

I did check PKW.. The color of RG red matches closely to gusty's red stripe. So now I am wondering if Skyflier would be a dead match.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: LadyGuinevere on April 29, 2016, 01:03:26 AM

I think my UK variant Moondreamer has the same hair as Whimzee, which is definitely a different colour to variant Sapphire's hair (and Princess Woosie)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 29, 2016, 12:55:20 PM

I checked her mane length and its about 3.1 inches. I also checked her washer and its around the same size as yours Kitkatvintage :)

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I also think her hair is a very close match to Pina Colada's streak ( still not an exact match as RV Gusty's hair seems a tiny bit lighter in comparrison unless its just my eyes playing tricks on me :P)

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Im not a moondreamers expert but i have sold a few over the years, i have noticed there seems to be a few with different shades of hair, i sold Whimzee recently and she had more of a blue tinge shade but i have had her in the past and she had a green shade like GITD Princess. :huh:

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 29, 2016, 01:19:25 PM

Hmm i wouldnt have thought of pina colada .
You can see how pinky her hair really is in this photo.
Does anyone know if skyfliers hair is this shade?
PS that is the card my fiance gave me with gusty on my birthday. They go so well together.

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Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on April 29, 2016, 01:30:13 PM

Quote from: Ember1 on April 29, 2016, 01:19:25 PM

Hmm i wouldnt have thought of pina colada .
You can see how pinky her hair really is in this photo.
Does anyone know if skyfliers hair is this shade?
PS that is the card my fiance gave me with gusty on my birthday. They go so well together.

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Yeah i didnt either but i was taking pics of Pina Colada to list on ebay today and noticed her streak looked similar to RV's hair! I dont have Skyflier maybe Kitkatvintage could help with that!?

Awww thats so sweet, i really do love that little heart pendant too suits her! :heart:

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 29, 2016, 01:35:22 PM

On the subject of Kimber, the interesting thing about Kimber and her variations is that Cherry Kimbers are made in China. The 2nd year Cherry Kimbers, anyway. The first year Cherry Kimbers are made in Hong Kong or China - but they are without exception sold in the North American market. The second year Chinese Cherry Kimbers were sold worldwide, including in the UK - my first doll was a Cherry Kimber - and here she is more common than the pink streaked 2nd Kimber.

First year Kimbers sold in the UK were made in HK or no country (and they do not match Spanish or Mexican produced dolls), but their hair is not the same shade as Cherry Kimber's.

RG is made in Hong Kong, not China. If we're assuming she was in production at the same time as Cherry Kimber, then that means the same shade of hair was being used in both factories. But we've seen adequate evidence of batch and manufacture issues to make that uncertain. I don't think that we can use Cherry Kimber to authenticate or locate RG - because the implication would be that she was from the HK factory where they made US-sold Cherry Kimbers, but not Kimber dolls for the UK or most of Europe.

In short, I think that's two toy lines and it's hard to tie those things together.

Secondly, the Movie Star ponies here in the UK generally have black eyeliner, not brown. I mention this because it's the only release of Gusty in the UK - although I would be interested in whether BabyDoll's two MOC ones both have black eyeliner or brown or one of each, as I don't know how consistent this is or whether it's batch related.

Again, I;m not sure what that says about any version of RG, but it's just something to take into account.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 29, 2016, 03:12:50 PM

Taffeta that is a REALLY good point about HK vs. China!

Ember I can see why you are asking about Skyflier since she is in the same set as US Gusty in year 3 :) I wonder about Powder's stripe too now? Another pony released in year 3 was Sea Mist and she has that pinky neon red colour hair.

Cherrytreat's (who you think was used to make your fake pony) is a year 6 pony and year 6 is when there was a mix of HK, Thailand and China ponies produced. Quite a few ponies did get the pink neon red colour either as a whole or as a stripe, I think some of the TE ponies for that hair colour and Sugarberry did as well.

Do anyone know which year Scandinavian Gusty got released? I can't quite find out as she appears with year 3 ponies?

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,290686.msg115910.html#msg115910

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 29, 2016, 03:31:47 PM

The answer would be on the back of the card, but people don't seem inclined to post those online, just the front of them MOC. I think Ponyland had a MOC Powder on this card so she might be able to answer that clearly.

The style of the card (basing it on UK style conventions, albeit loosely) indicates earlier rather than later: The name in blue under the rainbow is a feature of 1985 (Groom and Style) on UK style cards for early ponies like this. 1986 has names in banner ribbons. I would hazard a guess that the art style is also quite similar to that used for the Groom and Style ponies here. So I would suggest 1985 or at a push, 1986. But the real answer would be on the bottom of the backcard:-/.

http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/cherries_jubilee.htm
There's a good comparison of what I mean in terms of the style of card here on CJ's page - the only thing is that, because these were made for an export market, it's not necessarily going to match to the UK conventions. I am 99% sure that the Pony Friends card - which resembles the UK 1986 card in its style of art and such - was actually 1987, so maybe 1986 is a good estimate for the Scandinavian set.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Ember1 on April 29, 2016, 06:38:06 PM

PKW, I believe it was cherry treats that was used for the fake pony. The washer is larger too.
The color doesnt match the real RG at all but the scammer wouldnt have known that ;)

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: kitkatvintage on April 30, 2016, 09:26:24 AM

Another note about the hair... all of the hair used on Hasbro's brushable toy lines in the 80's came from a single supplier regardless of the country the toys were assembled in. Last year one of the guests at JemCon was Gina Beebe, a former Marketing VP at Hasbro during the 80's and early 90's. She was heavily involved in the design and production of the Jem line and shared a lot of interesting information about the production of all Hasbro toys in the 80's. Having a high quality hair that none of their competitors had was a high priority at the time. All hair used during that time came from a small family owned company in Italy that produced hair exclusively for Hasbro, then was shipped to the production factories in China, Hong Kong, Thailand, ect. On a side note, this company went out of business in the very late 80's and caused Hasbro to find another hair supplier. If you feel the hair, there's a noticeable difference in the hair on later year US ponies and all of the U.K./Euro releases after the US line ended... it's a bit slicker, straighter, & doesn't have that gentle curl-under-the-chin effect of the earlier ponies. Sourcing components from different countries then shipping them to another place for production assembly was common during the 80's. Many of the plastic pieces for play sets were molded overseas, then sent to the US and assembled and packaged in Rhode Island in a building down the street from the Hasbro "design facility".

As far as the comparison pics with other year 3 ponies, I'll try to get those this weekend. I've had a lot going on this week and haven't had time to work with the light box.

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Taffeta on April 30, 2016, 10:22:51 AM

That's interesting, but I don't think it changes my point about the hair. We're talking not about where the supplies came from, but more about the batches and colours in production at particular times and for particular destinations.

The Jem community is way more connected to the production people for the series and the dolls than the pony one ever has been, but the weird thing about that is that, inspite of the amazing expertise and knowledge among some of those people, the ballwrist dolls were dismissed as superstar doll knockoffs originally, because they didn't fit in with the form appearance of first edition dolls. It was only when masses of MIB Benelux dolls appeared with the ball wrist variation that the official point of view had to change. My point is that manufacturing information in online communities is very US-centric, and not always global. A case in point - most playsets in the UK from the MLP line are made and/or assembled in the UK or somewhere in Europe (eg W.Germany, Spain) even if the building is stamped with Hasbro R.I in the plastic.

I think the hair probably all came from that one place, but that's not really the issue. When we have Cherry Kimber consistently sold in the North American release, whilst ball wrist Kimber, with her weird haircut, different shade red hair and scary makeup was being sold in Europe at the same time and with marked variations to most of her accessories, it's impossible to assume they're all being made under the same instructions.

My general assumption is that there are either two factories involved, one for each destination, or one factory with two sections and two lots of orders. The ballwrists are some marked HK and some not, but all the boxes say made in HK on them, so that puts them in the same location roughly as the Cherry first year Kimbers. But yet there's no cross-contamination going on, not like we see with some of the pony lines.

So if we're putting RG in Europe, all these comparisons need to be validated at a European level. I don't think Jem can do this, because I don't think Jem's hair shades are necessarily relevant to what's going on with MLP in the middle 1980s.

With that in mind, I'm not sure if Skyflier was part of the Scandinavian set, but realistically, the comparison of hair shades should be with her, rather than a US release one, just to be sure.

As far as I know, there are no ponies from the UK in that time frame that have this red hair. Sunburst and Gusty's streak are the first in 1987, and Sunburst is almost certainly too dark for a match in this case (I think). Admittedly I'm not certain about Baby Gusty's streak (1986). That might match. I'm also pretty sure the same applies for Jem - Cherry 2nd Kimber was also here in 1987.

Edit to add: Or Tropical Breeze. Looking at the one on my shelf, her hair looks CherryKimberish. Of course, they were made in China, too, but has anyone made a comparison with her?

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Sarah-Bee on May 01, 2016, 04:02:41 AM

Ah my little baby :heart:

I do miss her but no regrets - humongous change in priorities over here due to recent events :)

I'm just so pleased she will be appreciated and loved in her new home as she was here with me :biggrin: :heart:

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: Babydoll on May 01, 2016, 03:01:26 PM

Quote from: Taffeta on April 29, 2016, 01:35:22 PM

Secondly, the Movie Star ponies here in the UK generally have black eyeliner, not brown. I mention this because it's the only release of Gusty in the UK - although I would be interested in whether BabyDoll's two MOC ones both have black eyeliner or brown or one of each, as I don't know how consistent this is or whether it's batch related.

Again, I;m not sure what that says about any version of RG, but it's just something to take into account.

I just have the one MOC girl now, I thought it was a bit cheeky of me to hog the two MOC Gusty Movie Stars :P She definately has black eyeliner though. My MOC Shady has brown eyeliner :)

Has anyone seen how the French alt hair (Purple hair Windy etc) or Italians with alt hair Bluemoon & Coral Tickle were packaged?

Babydoll~

Title: Re: WOLFIECHICK's AUTHENTIC REVERSE GUSTY found in 1997 in the UK!
Post by: angelponies on May 01, 2016, 09:49:58 PM

HUGE Congrats!! :cheer: She is beautiful!! Wow so much awesome stuff to read! :biggrin: :chat:

Now that's a bday pressie!!!!! :tort: He's a keeper!! :biggrin: :biggrin:

I love the neat stories with your rare ponies :heart:

The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => MLP Nirvana => Topic started by: Ember1 on April 05, 2016, 03:45:11 PM