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TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Libelle on March 09, 2017, 01:01:20 PM

Title: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 09, 2017, 01:01:20 PM
I am becoming increasingly frustrated and annoyed by a recent trend among ebay sellers. For about the past year and a half the following has occured in 90% of the auctions that I have won:


In other words, it has taken the seller between one and two weeks to actually dispatch the item. During that time, I have not received any communication from them.

I was super surprised to learn that according to ebay's terms:

Quote
Sellers are required to specify how long they will take to package and ship the item after receiving cleared payment. Sellers may select a handling time between same business day and 30 business days.

So ... If a seller fails to specify any prolonged handling times, when would it be reasonable for me to expect them to dispatch the item? (I've always thought it polite to ship within three days unless some issue arose.) When would it be appropriate to dinge stars or leave neutral/negative feedback because of slow handling?

Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on March 09, 2017, 01:46:43 PM
I see that you are in Germany.  Are you having items shipped to you via First Class International mail from other countries, like the US? In the past year or so, the US Post Office recently (in my experience) has stopped providing tracking information for First Class International packages, even to countries that they previously often tracked (like to England, Australia, and Germany.)  So there's that.

Also, in general buying from other countries may slow things down if a seller has to alter their usual proceedings, i.e. if they have a stack of domestic Priority Mail boxes that they usually use, but have to find a plain box or a International Priority box for your items.

In general, I would suggest contacting the sellers ahead of time to get their estimated shipping date.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: banditpony on March 09, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
Are you getting your item within the estimated shipping time frame?

"Arrived at X facility" means that the package is in the middle of transit and doesn't reflect when the package was dropped off.

Also, are you able to see handling times on auctions? Sellers input that information as they make the listing. It is under the shipping/handling tab ... otherwise it's considered a part of the estimated delivery. I would only ding if it was drastically different.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 09, 2017, 03:00:08 PM
In the past year or so, the US Post Office recently (in my experience) has stopped providing tracking information for First Class International packages, even to countries that they previously often tracked (like to England, Australia, and Germany.)  So there's that.

It's not a problem about tracking. It's a problem about when the seller actually dispatches the item, i.e. drops the parcel off at a facility or has the parcel being picked up at their residence. Dispatching an item long after payment has cleared without any communication or apology is not ok in my opinion!

Are you getting your item within the estimated shipping time frame?

No, much later.

"Arrived at X facility" means that the package is in the middle of transit and doesn't reflect when the package was dropped off.

I wrote "accepted at xyz facility" as in "the seller stopped by at the facility and dropped the parcel off".

Also, are you able to see handling times on auctions? Sellers input that information as they make the listing. It is under the shipping/handling tab ... otherwise it's considered a part of the estimated delivery. I would only ding if it was drastically different.

No, I am unable to see handling times. The handling times are part of the estimated delivery.

I'll give an example: I win an auction on ebay Germany. The seller is sending the item via DHL. Estimated delivery is within 2-4 days. After 4 days, the seller prints a shipping label. After 12 days, the seller drops the item off at an facility. After 14 days, I receive the item.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: banditpony on March 09, 2017, 03:38:27 PM
Oops misread.

Wow I wonder if something is wrong with ebay estimated times. I mean a package arriving within 2 days doesn't really happen within the usa...

But if you can't see the handling times, don't ding for that. Ding for not arriving within the estimated time period.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 09, 2017, 04:10:44 PM
Wow I wonder if something is wrong with ebay estimated times. I mean a package arriving within 2 days doesn't really happen within the usa...

Nope, there's nothing wrong with ebay estimated times, Germany is small. ;) DHL guarantees delivery within 2 days within Germany. Like I've said, the problem isn't with the delivery service - tracking proves that delivery occurs within two days -, but with the seller who lets the parcel gather dust at their home for days and days after printing a shipping label.

I'm furious about ebay automatically changing the item status to "dispatched/shipped", when the only thing that has happened is that the seller has printed a shipping label!
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Stormness_1 on March 09, 2017, 07:25:12 PM
Yeah I can see that being annoying. However, I've had parcels packed up and put in a post box, only to have that box sit either in the box or unprocessed in the truck/PO for days. One was almost a week before it even entered the system, but I'd put it in the box the day after payment cleared! I'm not sure about how that works with DHL, do you visit the depot to ship? Or German post for that matter, maybe you don't have boxes, or they're only for letters? I've only been as close as France (which of course could be completely different!), and I know they have a box system similar to us for prepaid stuff.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: banditpony on March 09, 2017, 07:27:18 PM
Oh I see! So you are just purchasing within Germany, I thought it was international-- I was thinking of experiences with ebay.com and USPS.

Yeah if it's going over the estimated time by over a week because they are slow to drop it off, then I feel a neutral is warranted. However, I would give them an opportunity to communicate by asking them a question during the process. Maybe ask about it the day after it's due-- tell them the item hasn't arrived and ask them why it hasn't arrived.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 10, 2017, 01:13:43 AM
However, I've had parcels packed up and put in a post box, only to have that box sit either in the box or unprocessed in the truck/PO for days. One was almost a week before it even entered the system, but I'd put it in the box the day after payment cleared! I'm not sure about how that works with DHL, do you visit the depot to ship?

In all the cases where the seller was using DHL, they visited the facility themselves in order to ship the parcel. There were some cases where the seller was using Hermes and had the parcel being picked up by Hermes at their place of residence. There haven't been any cases of post boxes being used, yet.

Oh I see! So you are just purchasing within Germany, I thought it was international-- I was thinking of experiences with ebay.com and USPS.

Yeah if it's going over the estimated time by over a week because they are slow to drop it off, then I feel a neutral is warranted. However, I would give them an opportunity to communicate by asking them a question during the process. Maybe ask about it the day after it's due-- tell them the item hasn't arrived and ask them why it hasn't arrived.

Oops, I should have been more specific then! I'm giving sellers loads of leeway when I order something internationally, so I wasn't referring to those cases. ;)

I have enquired as to the reasons for shipping late a couple of times and received answers such as "I couldn't find the item" (so how did you manage to include a photograph of the item in your auction?), "the nearest facility was closed for a couple of days" (which was easy to disprove by a simple call), "I only ship on Saturdays" (then your estimated delivery times and auction descriptions should reflect this, after all you are a regular seller) etc.

I have a feeling the latest auction that I won is going down the same dark path: I won an auction on ebay UK from a seller located in Germany (in other words the item will be send from Germany to a destination in Germany). Curiously, on ebay UK, I am able to see the handling times specified by the seller. Again, things are not looking promising: The information reads "seller will ship within 3 days after payment cleared". It is already 5 days after payment has cleared, and the item hasn't been shipped, yet. However, a shipping label was printed yesterday ... Sigh.

I'm furious about ebay automatically changing the item status to "dispatched/shipped", when the only thing that has happened is that the seller has printed a shipping label!

I strongly feel that many German sellers are abusing ebay's automated system.

Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: banditpony on March 10, 2017, 04:04:46 AM
I believe you, but it's so crazy to hear a majority of purchases are like this.

I thought eBay was supposed to monitor if packages were being received on time or not. Does anyone give honest feed back? What do their stars look like for shipping?
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 10, 2017, 04:53:40 AM
I believe you, but it's so crazy to hear a majority of purchases are like this.

Isn't it? It makes me quite sad. Moreover, I don't get it from a business point of view either. We are in a wonderful position here in Germany, not only when it comes to national shipping but also when it comes to international shipping:

(1) International shipping is very cheap compared to, for example, the USA or the UK.
(2) Transfer is extremely fast. To give an example: the last two swap boxes that I sent to the USA from Germany arrived in the USA 2 days after I had shipped them. (They then took another week to arrive at their final destination within the USA, because they were moving in and out of different USPS facilities, but that's still extremely fast.)

That's great for any online retailing business. So why destroy your advantage by procrastinating shipping? I just don't get it.

I thought eBay was supposed to monitor if packages were being received on time or not. Does anyone give honest feed back? What do their stars look like for shipping?

Their stars for shipping are usually at 100%. This is the reason why I made this topic. I don't dare leaving honest feedback when nobody else does either. Leaving honest feedback seems to be frowned upon over here to put it mildly

Btw, thanks so much for all your input! :D
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Taxel on March 10, 2017, 05:02:10 AM
I thought eBay was supposed to monitor if packages were being received on time or not. Does anyone give honest feed back? What do their stars look like for shipping?

Their stars for shipping are usually at 100%. This is the reason why I made this topic. I don't dare leaving honest feedback when nobody else does either. Leaving honest feedback seems to be frowned upon over here to put it mildly

Btw, thanks so much for all your input! :D

If buyers don't tell the truth the cycle of crappy sellers will just keep rolling since there's nothing to even deter them. Why give good customer service if no one cares when your service is terrible? Things will not change if no one takes action. I know that leaving a less than glowing review is highly frowned upon, even here on the Arena a lot of the time, but its so important. The sites people sell through/use (ie eBay, Etsy, Paypal) and future customers will never know there's a problem if everyone is too worried about looking "mean" to leave honest feedback, file cases, etc.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: bluerose9978 on March 10, 2017, 05:48:40 AM
For the future, maybe when you pay, you could leave a message in the details page requesting the person to contact you when they ship the item? EBay does monitor back and forth communication between buyer and seller in case there is an issue, that way you are justified in leaving poor feedback if they don't communicate their shipping times to you.

I've had this happen a few times in the U.S., actually, where they have printed out their labels right away but haven't shipped out the item for weeks. And then when I get a message whether the item has arrived within the shipping times it's supposed to be, it's well beyond. I'm not one to leave negatives or even neutrals but in those cases I feel it is OK to ding stars, or if it's well beyond the shipping time without proper explanation, to leave a neutral.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: banditpony on March 10, 2017, 07:35:03 AM
Their stars for shipping are usually at 100%. This is the reason why I made this topic. I don't dare leaving honest feedback when nobody else does either. Leaving honest feedback seems to be frowned upon over here to put it mildly

Ugh. I hate ebay sometimes. Buyers need to be more honest.

The star system is a semi-safe way to give "anonymous" feedback without having to write anything or give neutrals. It's so strange they would have a perfect 5 star for shipping if they aren't shipping on time. I get dinged stars even when I ship quick.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Strandperle on March 10, 2017, 11:14:56 AM
Hermes hasn't a reliable tracking. The last three packages I sent with Hermes arrived before the tracking status was even updated. The status was still "information delivered" and nothing more.

I also noticed that people tend to take longer than before to ship. But people are also much more busy than in past days. Most people work, have children, animals... I try to be understanding most of the time. It is annoying, of course, especially if you want an item really really much and as fast as possible, but I guess every seller has been in a situation now and then when quick shipping just isn't possible, may it be because of sickness, work or something else... so I try not to judge.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 10, 2017, 11:53:19 AM
Thank you Taxel, bluerose and banditpony for encouraging me to be more honest with buyer's feedback! I will definitely keep it in mind for the future, and I will dinge stars for shipping.  :hug: I don't buy often on ebay, but there are things I cannot get anywhere else (such as the 1980s china that my parents collect or the notebook adapter that I'm currently looking for and that Apple stopped selling years ago ...)

For the future, maybe when you pay, you could leave a message in the details page requesting the person to contact you when they ship the item? EBay does monitor back and forth communication between buyer and seller in case there is an issue, that way you are justified in leaving poor feedback if they don't communicate their shipping times to you.

I always do that. I always ask for a date and a tracking number, because some sellers don't update the item status on ebay at all. Sadly, it hasn't been helping, in fact, I have not received a single notification from a seller so far. I don't know whether they don't read their messages or simply cannot be bothered to notify me. :(

I've had this happen a few times in the U.S., actually, where they have printed out their labels right away but haven't shipped out the item for weeks.

This exactly.

Hermes hasn't a reliable tracking. The last three packages I sent with Hermes arrived before the tracking status was even updated. The status was still "information delivered" and nothing more.

I have never had this happen before. Tracking has always been 100% accurate and on time with Hermes, and the carrier has always arrived exactly within the time frame (usually two hours) announced. Like I've said before, the problem does not lie with the carrier.

Most people work, have children, animals... I try to be understanding most of the time. It is annoying, of course, especially if you want an item really really much and as fast as possible, but I guess every seller has been in a situation now and then when quick shipping just isn't possible, may it be because of sickness, work or something else... so I try not to judge.

I knew this comment would come sooner or later. I am neither without understanding nor unduly impatient. Due to health reasons I need to plan my orders from online retailers or purchases from online sellers very carefully. I need to know exactly on which day they will arrive. So if a seller states that they will ship within 1 business day or within 3 business days, and fails to do so, things get complicated for me. If a seller states they ship once a week, I'm just as fine with that, but I need to know before I place an order / buy something. By specifying handling times or giving an estimated delivery date, sellers commit themselves and should be required to communicate with me to let me know when things change.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Strandperle on March 10, 2017, 12:08:22 PM
If you need to know before, then maybe if the seller doesn't state anything in the auction, asking before buying might help. It could also be helpful to tell the sellers that you need to know the exact shipping date. I don't think most sellers are aware of something like that.
If a certain handling time is stated and not fulfilled, especially after communicating with the seller, I'd have no problem with giving less stars for shipping time.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Libelle on March 10, 2017, 12:44:43 PM
If you need to know before, then maybe if the seller doesn't state anything in the auction, asking before buying might help. It could also be helpful to tell the sellers that you need to know the exact shipping date.

Like I said to bluerose above, I'm already doing all of this (or, rather, I have been doing that [only] for the past few months since the health issues arose).

Ebay requires sellers to specify handling times/estimated delivery dates. Hence, there is no case of "if the seller doesn't state anything in the auction". Once an auction goes live, sellers are committing themselves and should be required to communicate if anything changes. I've been in the position of having to manage work and family and sales for years, but I've never left a buyer in the loop. Yes, I am super [if not overly] organised and conscientious, and I realise many people are different, but, I believe, there is a minimum amount of courtesy involved in business transactions.

I feel completely powerless and frustrated with ebay purchases atm. It's so sad, because ever since shipping costs have escalated in many parts of the world and the Global Shipping Programme has become an additional hazard, ebay Germany has really been the last resort for me to find certain things. Still, I will have to avoid ebay for the time being. There's only that notebook adapter I need to buy before I do so ...
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: northstar3184 on March 10, 2017, 02:43:55 PM
Unless sellers otherwise state in their listings that they only ship certain days, or an unexpected situation arises of which they notify you, your items should be shipped within a few days at the latest.

I had one ebay seller I bought from who kept saying he'd ship my item. After a week and a half of getting jerked around, I just had enough and opened a case against him and said I wanted a refund. He finally shipped my item after that. Sometimes that's what it takes unfortunately.
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Strandperle on March 11, 2017, 12:25:58 AM
I guess most private ebay sellers are not aware of the fact that the estimated delivery date could be so extremely important for a buyer.
Avoiding private sellers might be the only option then.

And please remember: I am just sharing my two cents...   :unsure:
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on March 11, 2017, 08:32:21 AM
Once you represent yourself as an online store, which is what Ebay enables a seller to do, you have to think of yourself as a business. Shipping times are very important!

Because of our postal system's laziness dealing with parcels, I have to deal with ordering stuff online much like Libelle - I need to know which carrier, I need the tracking, I need to know which dispatch system I need to call, so the driver doesn't pretend to deliver and return to the depot... 
Title: Re: Handling Times - Etiquette?
Post by: Einhornbaby on April 21, 2017, 05:30:34 AM
Just adding my two cents here...

I see that youre frustrated and I understand it (more than you might think, but I dont want to talk about this in public.) Im very sorry to hear that youre dealing with this as its just annoying as heck!

Please though lets not forget that we dont always know what other people are having their own issues with. Sure, some sellers might be just too lazy to ship in time but I guess many just have a very stressful life themselves, maybe loaded with illness too (to their own body or to those they love). Everybody fights their own demons we know nothing about. We just have to remember that selling their own goods is not making people professionals on it. Talking about private sellers here, just wanted to add that.

I have one though about paying with paypal too.
Lets say, its a seller that is out of or very lows on money and they just want to raise their low funds with selling stuff to buy food or otherwise needed family supplies. Getting / accepting money including money for shipping to the paypal account is not putting you money into your pocket right now. Paypal is sometimes taking ridicolously long to send money to your bank account (longest I had was more than one week). So lets now think the seller had to wait for this payment to have the money for shipping.


I now hope this will resolve for you soon! Maybe you could switch from eBay to Amazon Prime instead? I did and Im really happy withit because their delivery times are really accurate and it has relieved me 100000 times. As I said, Im dealing with certain problems too and I badly need exact shipping times too to be ok with it then. Using Amazon instead of eBay was a good step to the right direction for me to release me from stress. I once in a while still use ebay or trade with private persons on here but since I stepped back a little and "killed" the main problem with switching to Amazon Prime I can deal with it waaaaaay better :) Just my two cents, maybe its worth a try.
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