Is buying from Taobao ethical?

[Vertefae]

I won't buy from them. It's stolen property. I find it ironic that the Arena has banned recast dolls but flashes fakies and stolen ponies like it's the next biggest craze.

[DancingPhoenix]

I like seeing the stuff that pops out, and bought one of the magenta candy babies (that was released later with Mrs. Cake). The fact that the money goes to these people instead of Hasbro is definitely not something I'm okay with, but I ended up buying that set anyway for Mrs. Cake so I don't necessarily feel badly about it now. I also debated buying a Skywishes off of there because of the international exclusive thing, but decided against it because with the fees they charge it was not even worth it.

Really it's up to the person, I personally try to wait until things are in stores but I was also never really a "prototype" collector. I'd rather my money go to Hasbro so they know ponies are selling and to keep with the franchise. We've gotten them this far, so hopefully we can keep it going for years to come as well!

[Snapdragon]

After I missed out on an SDCC 2012 pony due to Hasbro's terrible online store freezing up on me multiple times during checkout, I feel absolutely no shame in buying from Taobao anymore. I had to pay more than I would have liked for my exclusive ($90 vs the original $25), but it comforted me that Hasbro got zero of my dollars for it.

IMO, Hasbro's a big company; if they would rather factor in the cost of theft rather than pay their workers an ethical wage, then that's their decision to make.

[rosierjay]

don't shop it. it seems too much like bootleg movies to me.
if i want hasbro to continue to make ponies, i feel i should show my support and buy them from them
if hasbro doesn't make what i want them to, i buy one of theirs and modify it.
where customs come in.

when a custom someone here did gets sold on taobao people are upset. i see it in a similar light.

that being said. i think it's fun to see what shows up on taobao, as it's like a preview of what might get released.

[Lightning Twirl]

I buy from taobao, I dont feel any shame about it either. If I know a pony spotted on taobao is headed for a release, I wait to buy it in stores. However if I spot a pony I am certain is a prototype, i jump the gun and contact my agent! Im a collector, I would love to have a nice big room full of unique ponies so taobao is my friend! Thanks to taobao I have a dark blue haired Celestia, a tinsel Cupcake, and a few other cool ponies!

[prancingstag]

Is it illegal? Yes. But is it ethical? Hmm.

Spoiler

I tend to think of taobao ponies as test runs, prototypes, factory errors/defects/etc that didn't meet standards and would never have been packaged/sold by Hasbro anyway. Selling things that "fell of the back of the truck" has long been an illegal practice, but something that people tend to turn a blind eye to. Same with selling burnt copies of DVDs or scalping tickets to popular shows (although recently there have been bigger efforts to stamp those out). It's detrimental to the original producer and of benefit to the thieving middleman, that much is clear, and the average person would probably look negatively on grey/black market items. But I don't think of it in such concrete "lose" and "gain" terms.

What is the middleman going to do with the money they earn? They're going to pay their rent, buy groceries, buy clothes, maybe go out to eat or catch a movie themselves. The money they unlawfully earn goes back into their economy one way or another, it circulates, and eventually by the law of averages someone is going to have the exact same bills/coins in their hand that came from the sale of a black market pony, and they're going to spend it on an official Hasbro product and put it back into the company. What goes around comes around, I refuse to believe there's some investment banker or stock marketeer pilfering ponies for taobao and then putting the money into an offshore account never to see the light of day again.

And on another point, Taobao is not a widely known or understood site, however much it may seem commonplace to people who encounter and/or use it in the pursuit of their hobbies. The average person won't know of its existence and probably would not want to go to such lengths (translating, finding an agent, paying agent/handling/postage/customs fees) just to buy a pony. We collectors are a small portion of the overall MLP market, and even fewer of us are willing to buy taobao. I don't believe a significant cut of Hasbro's potential profits go to taobao agents. If it were anywhere near damaging to the bottom line, then Hasbro would have brought the hammer down on them long ago.

Personally, I've only bought two "prototype" ponies (over ebay but they were from China and clearly off the factory floor in the same way as taobao ponies are). That was for Shadowbolt Rainbow Dash with the long, unglued bangs (her paint is flawed in some places so I believe she's off the error pile) and Minty (whom I thought would never ever see an official release, this was months before Midnight in Canterlot came into view). And since then, I've also purchased the official Shadowbolt Dash and MiC collection. Shadowbolt Dash because I wanted the in-box display, and MiC because I wanted the other six friends that dear Minty brought to the shelf with her. Hasbro profited from the sale of their product because it was good quality, packaged and marketed in an appealing way, regardless of the prototype sellers giving me loose goods ahead of time.

I prefer to wait for the official sets to reach our shores and buy them off the shelf. I love ponies and I use my money to support Hasbro making more. But I'm not totally against grey market ponies, in certain situations I am very glad of them existing (imagine if every Minty A and Sweetie Blue prototype had been thrown in the trash and none of us ever got to own them!), and I would never look down on somebody for buying taobao or grey market in general.

[Lightning Twirl]

^They yeah! The people selling these ponies in china barely make enough money to support their family, sometimes I do think that when I purchase a taobao pony im helping a person in china afford their food, rent,  and a possibly a little extra they can use to treat themselves or or their buy something nice for their child. I still support Hasbro by buying their products, but if an interesting prototype comes by and im lucky to grab one I keep in mind I am possibly helping out a  family and I get a new pony! Win-win to me, but everyones opinion is different.

I also hate to think about the cool ponies thrown out...minties, sweetie blues, possibly some other cool ponies we havnt even seen yet that could go to collectos and be treated with love! It makes me wonder if the people working in the factory feel bad for the trashed ponies

[CupidStrikes]

I've yet to order from there but I have no problem with it. If there was a chance those ponies might actually be available in shops here then I might feel more like waiting for them, but given the ratio of exclusives to regular releases lately, it's safer to assume new ponies will be exclusive to some North American store or just plain not show up here *shrugs*. I don't feel a whole lot of loyalty to a company that repeatedly sends the message that they don't care about their non-North American customers and I am so, so tired of having to pay to import every new release. Or worse, when new ponies do show up here but at an offensively over-inflated price (in the case of the Pinkie Pie's Boutique line).

Part of me, as a Japanese figure collector, is hesitant because of the risk of bootlegs, but most of the prototype/error ponies seem to be the legit thing. Speaking of buying error ponies...if they weren't sold on Taobao they'd probably just get thrown straight in the bin, which seems a huge waste when someone might really enjoy a wingless Rainbow dash, or Lyra with someone else's cutie mark. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Hasbro themselves were selling the prototypes; I've sure they've been around long enough to know that there is a market for these things. Or, as others have said, it's helping an under-paid factory worker make ends meet.

[Loa]

^They yeah! The people selling these ponies in china barely make enough money to support their family, sometimes I do think that when I purchase a taobao pony im helping a person in china afford their food, rent,  and a possibly a little extra they can use to treat themselves or or their buy something nice for their child. I still support Hasbro by buying their products, but if an interesting prototype comes by and im lucky to grab one I keep in mind I am possibly helping out a  family and I get a new pony! Win-win to me, but everyones opinion is different.

I also hate to think about the cool ponies thrown out...minties, sweetie blues, possibly some other cool ponies we havnt even seen yet that could go to collectos and be treated with love! It makes me wonder if the people working in the factory feel bad for the trashed ponies

For me, stealing from the factory to make extra cash will only reinforce the fact they are paid less than minimum wage.
Hasbro wont sue, as its only losing a few hundred dollars from a factory that is saving them millions on labour.

As for recast dolls, fakie ponies have been around for 30 plus years. Recast dolls have not.

[Rhubarbpie]

I have never bought directly from Taobao - I do not understand the language, nor how it works. But I have bought off people on the Arena who do and have kindly offered their services to help others get these cool ponies.  I got Sunset Shimmer, Mrs Cake, Twirly Treats and Long hair Shadowbolt Rainbow Dash from these wonderful people. I also have bought a Pinkie Berry and Rariforth/Blossity franken ponies from a dealer on ebay who gets some really good ones in.

I enjoy the extra variety from these ponies. Also being in the UK, I don't tend to see many of the good sets here so I do scour ebay for loose ponies (Minty and the like) so I can keep up with the G4 releases,  the dealers (who I think use Taobao) are often my only chance.

As for it being ethical?  It does appear that many of these ponies are factory rejects, head swaps, wrong symbols etc who would end up in the scrap pile anyway.  I think that most employees would see a perfectly good pony (ie 4 legs, mane and tail, pretty picture on its rear) and think it a shame that because its not to code (wrong picture. wrong color hair etc) that its to be rubbish where a little girl somewhere would love a pretty pony toy.  The fact that that "little girl" is a 30-something lady in the UK is neither here nor there  !!

My point is, I don't think it unethical for these workers to be doing this. If anything, it could be looked upon as recycling! Less garbage for the factory to sort out.  If it really affected Hasbro, they'd have stopped it years ago. 

[partypony566]

I have never bought from Taobao as I do not understand how it works plus it is all in Chinese so I have no idea how anyone even manages to navigate the site! I wouldn't know where to start.

I don't see anything wrong with it I wish there was a Taobao when G1 was around because I'd love to have some G1 prototypes!

Imagine!

[TinyShinyUnique]

That is a very interesting topic I like the variety of responses here!

Do I do it?

No, I don't and it has nothing to do with it being ethical or not - I'm not that crazy over G4's to owe many variants, prototypes, oddities. I like looking at them, might be envious of someone's else collection, but buying them on Taobao is too much of an hassle to me.

Did I buy from Chinese/Hong Kong sellers on ebay?

Yes, I did. Paying around $15 for Nightmare Moon seems more fair to me financially, than trying to get her in shop... Oh no, wait. We don't have her in shops here. I would have to buy her online and either pay horrendous import/shipping costs or try my luck with other who might have her on sale loose... And would I have to ask them if they got her from Taobao or from their shop? No, I don't care about it either.

Is it ethical?

No, no, it isn't. No matter how I look at it, whether it's just getting thrown-away and rejected figures with a permission or is it theft, selling them outside Hasbro isn't fair. But I often get guilty when buying G4's I can find in shop from other collectors because it's cheaper and I don't care for the MIB ponies at all.

Do I have a problem with people selling on Taobao or buying there?

No, not even one. As I mentioned above, I'm even happy to see some of the oddities found there I still wish all G2 prototypes were saved - you know the ones pictures in the pamphlets. And since we had seen the Petal Blossom OOAK, I still believe they had been rescued from the bin and will pop out on sale some day  

[WildBlue]

What I am wondering is: - How do we know this is being done without Hasbro's knowledge?
- How do we know they are stolen?

If these are stolen, yes I think it is unethical. But if they were set aside for taking, then it is fair game.
I dont know which it is so I cant be sure.

[Malancaiwen]

The people selling these ponies in china barely make enough money to support their family, sometimes I do think that when I purchase a taobao pony im helping a person in china afford their food, rent,  and a possibly a little extra they can use to treat themselves or or their buy something nice for their child.

This was true a little while ago, when only people who could speak chinese could find these rare prototypes on taobao. I'm talking about the time when there were like 3 pages of ponies "only" and you had to know the exact name in chinese to find them back. At that time each pony was sold by an individual who had gotten a few out of the factory. I bought some can/fair exclusives at that time and proposed them here, thinking it was some kind of test release... it made a fuss as I had revealed the great surprise of the year, I really had no idea!
Anyway, at that time ponies were very cheap, it was a once in a while occasion.

Right now, don't see the chinese sellers as someone in a bulk bed at the factory, working hard not seeing his whole family, just like the little hands making branded shoes... these people still exist, but they are not the ones selling on taobao anymore! If you notice, most of the time the titles include "my little pony", which means the seller knows english (or at least a few words), they tend to be wholesellers who buy from the factory people very cheap and know how to advertise, make good title, take good pictures and hide potential flaws. They probably live in average flats, with all usual comodities (heater/AC, water, ...) and spend their day online checking their stocks and chatting with agents (the kind of agents that help you buy from taobao). I know all this as I chatted a lot with various sellers to get my hands on FS white celestias/bubbles. There are a few main sellers for these special ponies, everyone knows them! From the factory workers who know who to contact to sell out ponies, to agents who know when to contact them to make sure they have stocks of all the most wanted items. All the sellers I had contacted at that time told me that their best items were never put online (or just to increase their visibility) as all ponies were already bought by agents.

Seeing this market as a way to support someone in need at the other end of the world is not true anymore. Some might even live a wealthier life than most of us!

Aside from all this, did I buy from taobao before? Yes. Will I do it again? Probably not for G4 as I'm not such an avid collector anymore. I might look for some cheap baits (G3 or G4) and occasionnal collector G3 when I'll be there.

Do I feel bad about doing it? I know it's wrong but considering how much big companies cheat us, I feel little to no regrets. I mean, Hasbro knew the castle set was going to be quite a big sale, then why wait MONTHS after the wedding episode to release the playset? I feel they don't care enought about their clients (I might be wrong though?) for me to really care about how I buy. I am faithful to some brands, I will keep on buying ponies in regular stores but I'll also look for good oportunities for myself.

[MANIMAL!]

A few months ago, someone posted that the factories intentionally go through Taobao to sell away rejects that don't meet QC standards, but which are sellable. I don't know if it's true.

In any case, Hasbro has made it pretty clear that we are NOT their target audience. If collectors made a big enough impact on sales to warrant considerations, we wouldn't see them going back to mane 6 and no new characters the way they have. So, who cares.