The MLP Arena

TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: ponytales on October 15, 2020, 10:28:37 PM

Title: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 15, 2020, 10:28:37 PM
Hi guys,

I have no idea how this is going to pan out. Long story short, I sold Sand Digger and the buyer has now opened a return request claiming I sent them 2 cd's and a stuffed bunny instead! (I don't even own these kinds of items...)

I am trying to dispute this, but I have never dealt with any return before so I have no idea what I'm doing in that respect. My reputation is flawless. I think though (annoyingly) I have accidently accepted the return request, when all I meant to do was send the buyer a message or dispute the claim etc. Like I say, I have never dealt with a return before, so didn't realise I accepted the return. I'm now told this is irreversible, so it's inevitable I'll be required to refund for something I didn't do.

It's just a heads up really as I know a lot of my customers are on the Arena, and I wanted to let you know that you mean the world to me, this 100% did not happen and that I may get a negative feedback for this, that's my biggest fear  :(

Any advice is appreciated, but honestly I'm not sure there's a way to fight this.

Stay safe xx



Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on October 15, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Did they open the case as SNAD (Significantly not as Described)? If so, I think you just have to play eBay's game.
Here's a link to suggestions (https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-is-making-a-false-return-request-that-product-was-damaged/m-p/28044965/highlight/true#M1136563) by someone on the eBay forums. I'm assuming it's geared towards USA sellers, but can give you a general idea of what you can do to fight in this situation.
...Not anything easy at least.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 15, 2020, 10:59:53 PM
That's awful. I'm sorry you are being scammed. The only thing you can attempt to do is try to get in contact with ebay, but I don't think you'd be able to reverse anything if you already accepted a return.

If you are comfortable sharing the user's name, I'm sure people here would love to put that kind of person on their block list.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: bluerose9978 on October 16, 2020, 04:10:24 AM
If you are comfortable sharing the user's name, I'm sure people here would love to put that kind of person on their block list.

I second this.

And if they do leave a negative you can respond to it on your feedback page.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: flying_narwhal on October 16, 2020, 08:56:08 PM
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, such a frustrating situation. If you haven't already I would contact eBay either by phone (though I find their phone support to be...lacking...) or chat (I prefer the chat feature personally). They make it annoyingly easy to accidentally accept a return without confirmation... If you're looking for chat, on the main page go to "Contact Us" > scroll down to "Need More Help? Contact Us" > Then go through the prompts to select your specific situation. I've had some luck using the chat feature for help in the past.

eBay is kind of iffy in these situations. Unfortunately the buyer usually has the upper hand unless there is a pattern of abuse recorded on their account. Regardless of what happens, definitely report this person for abusing the system. I'm not sure if it's the same on ebay UK's website but next to their order on your "Manage Orders" page is a drop down with the option to report them to eBay and leave a note about what happened.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 17, 2020, 10:42:42 AM
Thanks guys!

I reported them on the day it happened, however eBay can’t tell me about any progress of the report. I guess they may be removed if they have too many of these complaints. They seem relatively new based on their feedback.

More than happy to share their name, just in case. They go by natla-1815.

I asked for photo evidence nearly 48 hours ago and was told they would send it to me ‘in the am’, but never did. Should I chase them on that do you think? They also mentioned that ‘there was a little damage to the right side of the box but don’t don’t think it’s been tampered with. I just know this isn’t what I ordered’.

Well, I know I never sent them cd’s and a stuffed bunny - why on earth would I do that?!  :huh:

I personally would be interested in seeing photo evidence, only because my packaging is very specific, so I’d recognise it instantly. It’s also hit me that I ship single ponies out in quite a small box, so wondering if two cd’s would even fit!

This person also sells ponies, if that matters. Genuinely not sure if I’m being scammed or if the box could have been legitimately messed with en route (maybe in customs?) and the contents were replaced incorrectly. There is no way to reverse accepting a return, which was a total accident, but I haven’t sent them a postage label yet, so eBay advised me to ask for photo evidence xx

Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 17, 2020, 03:27:43 PM
I hope Ebay can assist you!  Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 18, 2020, 04:40:51 PM
Update, I got a response when I asked for photos:

“I’ve had the flu all week. I’ll have to dig it (the packaging) out of the trash as my husband threw it away. It had to be yours though because it had a Great Britain stamp on it of the queen I think, and I haven’t ordered anything else from overseas. I need you to send me the return shipping label so I can send them back to you”

I’m about to get onto eBay chat again in the hopes that they can tell me there’s a way out of this - I obviously don’t want her returning items to me that I didn’t send in the first place!

I’m this close to just offering a partial refund and telling her not to worry about the return xx
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Taffeta on October 18, 2020, 07:29:02 PM
The only way I've managed to get the ebay chat to work for me before has been by going through the options to close account and then it comes up. If it's more acccessible now it's good news.

Customs mix up seems unlikely, can't imagine them putting things in the wrong package (you sent yourself, right? Not GSP? they do repack things then).

Them not providing photos is a big red flag to me though. If you get a wrong item you take photos of it right away to report it, surely? Not "threw the packaging in the trash but now want a refund". That in itself is dodgy behaviour. YOu need the evidence to prove your case.

The only thing that could be in their defence is if they had 2 packages the same day and she got confused. Or I guess if the post sent her the wrong item and she didn't check the label clearly. But that's not very exact - "It had the Queen on it so it must've been you."

Sigh. 

Good luck with the ebay chat. Point out to them these things as well, because right now they don't have any evidence to back up the claim.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 18, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
I asked for photo evidence nearly 48 hours ago and was told they would send it to me ‘in the am’, but never did. Should I chase them on that do you think? They also mentioned that ‘there was a little damage to the right side of the box but don’t don’t think it’s been tampered with. I just know this isn’t what I ordered’.

Update, I got a response when I asked for photos:

“I’ve had the flu all week. I’ll have to dig it (the packaging) out of the trash as my husband threw it away.

I still think this is fishy. I'd still try to get feedback from ebay before any sort of refund.

She is aware you asked for pictures, which is completely fair on your part. She's known since that am she said she'd get pictures, that the packaging was apparently in the trash. She couldn't ask her husband to dig it out then?
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on October 18, 2020, 08:28:05 PM
I'm pretty sure returns need to be shipped in the original packaging?
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Aeryala on October 18, 2020, 10:37:33 PM
This is fishy af.  The fact that she also sells ponies is a huge red flag for being a possible scammer, to me.  Keep an eye on her sales in the future, and report her to ebay if she posts the ponies you sent her. 

From my experience with ebay, they'll probably end up making you do a half refund, even if the buyer refuses to provide any proof of their claims.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 18, 2020, 10:46:00 PM
Thanks everyone.

Taffeta, I accessed chat by going through Help & Contact>Scroll to the bottom for Contact Us>Selling>Relevant subject (returns)>Chat option at the bottom of the page.

It first brings up an automated bot, to which I've learnt never actually tell the bot your problem as it won't help. Instead, I said "chat", the bot asked what is was about, so I said "returns" and it transferred me through to a human (I was quite surprised that worked!)

The story of ALL the packaging being thrown out does seem thin, but I was expecting that very response to be honest. Surely if the order is wrong and you intend to return, you keep everything as it is just in case. My return address is also on the side of the box, so you would think you'd put it aside so you didn't lose it. But she's putting the blame on her husband here :blink:
I'm eager to see any photo evidence as my packaging is very specific and instantly recognisable. If she conveniently can't send pictures, I may ask her to describe it instead.

She's saying I sent her two CD's and a stuffed bunny, so I've also asked her the size of the stuffed bunny (so I can see if it fits into my single pony shipping boxes. If it doesn't, I have that argument). She's also aware that I have eBay involved and they are advising me of how I should be handling it.

So far, eBay have said they can see my reputation speaks for itself, however I do have to prove my case, which is hard as it's just my word. I'm apparently so far doing the right thing in asking for photo's and communicating with the buyer. But if they can't or don't send photo's, I should offer a partial refund (they say 50%).

And if they refuse the partial refund, eBay will step in and make a decision. Which is likely to favour the buyers side. I very much tried to plead my case, but all I got was a continuous 'I understand this is frustrating...'. And if I am to receive my first negative over this, I can try to appeal. Hope it doesn't get to that stage.

Post Merge: October 18, 2020, 10:47:11 PM

This is fishy af.  The fact that she also sells ponies is a huge red flag for being a possible scammer, to me.  Keep an eye on her sales in the future, and report her to ebay if she posts the ponies you sent her. 

From my experience with ebay, they'll probably end up making you do a half refund, even if the buyer refuses to provide any proof of their claims.

Yes, I'm absolutely keeping tabs on her listings just in case Sand Digger pops up!

Post Merge: October 18, 2020, 10:48:26 PM

Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 20, 2020, 08:44:23 PM
Ok so, I still haven't heard from the buyer, still no photo evidence.

eBay are recommending that I send them a return label and if they return the wrong item (which they will), I can make a case that the buyer filed a 'false return request' and have it reversed   :blink:
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 20, 2020, 09:31:12 PM
well if she returns something, definitely take video/photos as you open it
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 21, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
She got eBay involved, I refunded, she left a negative anyway. Now I'm down from 100% to 97.5%  :cry:

Be honest guys, does this hurt me reputation wise? That was my biggest fear xx
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 21, 2020, 02:33:41 PM
She got eBay involved, I refunded, she left a negative anyway. Now I'm down from 100% to 97.5%  :cry:

u_u; I'm so angry on your behalf. I find it ridiculous that people can successfully do an INAD case, but not give a single picture to prove it. I would of assumed that ebay would of asked her for a picture as well with such a fresh account.

I noticed she gave two negs in a row, saying the same thing...

If ebay won't change it... (which I am doubtful), try not to fret about it so much. I think most buyers ignore the 100%, or click it to see what happened. I believe the negative % drops off after a year. It'll also go up a bit, if you sell a few more things..

Did your contact at ebay say anything about this?
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 21, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it affecting your sales.  try to stick with sales to MLP Arena people!  Put a link in your signature to your shop.

unfortunately Ebay has made it far too easy for scammers to file INAD cases.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 21, 2020, 04:13:21 PM
She got eBay involved, I refunded, she left a negative anyway. Now I'm down from 100% to 97.5%  :cry:

I noticed she gave two negs in a row, saying the same thing...

Did your contact at ebay say anything about this?

I pointed this out to eBay, but it was never addressed. I must’ve spoken to five different people over the last two days. One of which guaranteed the feedback would be removed, however I’m told “it doesn’t breach their policy as the buyer is merely stating their opinion of their experience”

I messaged her saying I’m sorry it didn’t work out and I respect her decision to leave a negative (because there’s no way eBay will remove, so gave me no choice but to accept it). She’s since reached out saying ‘we both have different takes on what happened...’, so I’ve been cordial and kindly asked if she would revise her feedback, even just changing from a negative to a neutral. I’m yet to hear back, but I’ll let you know what she says. She may very well ignore or refuse. I have never ever had a return, so it’s just upsetting overall.

If only there were another auction platform that attracted the same traffic as eBay, but sadly, they have the monopoly  :(
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 21, 2020, 04:31:23 PM
Yeah, it's pretty clear they don't remove feedback unless there's something false with it. And with the refund, you can't do anything with the case. I personally think it was a scam to begin with, so I don't think there would of been a good outcome anyway. I was crossing my fingers that ebay would of helped you out more. u_u

As I said before, I just find it baffling they didn't ask for a photo. I know I've had to upload a photo for proof before, and I've had my account in good standing since '02.

I don't think it matters where someone sells, be it online or in person, there's always a risk of a scam or bad experience.

My husband sells expensive things, like vintage cameras. He had a case opened saying a lens was damaged upon approval, even though there was evidence the dude actually dropped the item and damaged it himself. My husband lost the case, and had negative feedback. People still buy from him... That's why I say, try not to let it bother you so much.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: LadyAmalthea on October 21, 2020, 05:12:46 PM
Oh yuck. I'll definitely keep that person's user name on the back burner as one not to do business with. It's hearing stories like this that make me terrified to sell on Ebay. I was on the opposite end of your situation a couple weeks ago (received an item I did not order), and the FIRST thing I did was to take pictures, with the original packaging, and sent them when I contacted the seller. I realized it was my word against theirs, and I was still worried my proof wouldn't be enough. But that's logically where your buyer should have started! I'm sorry that happened to you.

As far as the feedback, I always check someone's negative feedback and take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes people leave bad feedback for stupid reasons, and it doesn't deter me from buying anyway. If I saw a rebuttal to negative feedback on this transaction, such as, 'buyer refused to send photos when I tried to resolve the situation', I would assume a scam buyer.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on October 21, 2020, 08:45:23 PM
I'm usually the buyer these days on Ebay so I haven't seen that side to things  :( I don't worry too much if sellers have the odd neg because there are always arguments and disagreements and sometimes that is with the postal service and neither party's fault. I doubt you will lose buyers. I'd love to see a reply to the neg on your profile if you're able to add one and I will certainly block that user.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 21, 2020, 10:30:09 PM
I'm usually the buyer these days on Ebay so I haven't seen that side to things  :( I don't worry too much if sellers have the odd neg because there are always arguments and disagreements and sometimes that is with the postal service and neither party's fault. I doubt you will lose buyers. I'd love to see a reply to the neg on your profile if you're able to add one and I will certainly block that user.

Thanks everyone :heart:

My eBay feedback page is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/fdbk/feedback_profile/*ponytales*?filter=feedback_page:All (https://www.ebay.co.uk/fdbk/feedback_profile/*ponytales*?filter=feedback_page:All)

I have posted a response so I hope people can see through this. I have some lovely ponies coming up soon that I was so excited to list and I'd hate for this to ruin it xx
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Pokeyonekenobie on October 21, 2020, 10:51:58 PM
There's a company that will send an anonymous envelope full of glitter to someone.  It really makes you want to do that...  :devious:
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: flying_narwhal on October 21, 2020, 11:43:55 PM
I am so sorry to hear that the situation ended that way... There really needs to be better protections for sellers in cases like this (especially when the buyer is new and the seller has a good track record).

Don't let the negative feedback get to you! I know it must be frustrating, especially since you did nothing wrong. I personally don't hold negative feedback against a seller unless it looks like a chronic problem mentioned by multiple buyers. Your excellent feedback history speaks for itself and any reasonable buyer would still purchase from you.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: ponytales on October 22, 2020, 08:21:32 PM
Oh my, it gets better!

I've been put through to a manager and I asked what would happen if I see her selling the item on?  That is surely breaking the rules as she made a false claim saying she didn't receive it, got her money back, but then sold it on.

And apparently, you'll love this, that's not against the rules! Because I wouldn't be able to actually prove that the item she's selling is the one I originally refunded her for! And also, as eBay never forced me to refund her and I did it to close the case and try to make peace, it's on me and I have nowhere to turn.

I even pointed out that the buyer admitted they only assumed the package was from me because the postage mark came from the UK.... they admitted this in the messages for the reps to see, but apparently makes no difference.

The negative feedback is "merely a reflection of the buyers experience, so cannot be removed" and "we are not an insurance company so it is not our place to decide who is lying". Direct quotes.

Watch out folks, the Bay is getting worse...  :shocked:
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 22, 2020, 09:15:05 PM
Yeah, eBay isn't going to put extra effort in decided who is right or wrong. That's why usually the solution is the item gets sent back for a full refund.

I didn't realize you closed the case... So, you did close the chance of them potentially doing anything in your favor. :(
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Taffeta on October 22, 2020, 10:36:17 PM
Ebay has been questionable in their seller support since they stopped allowing sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers.

Although I am not a fan of the fact negatives get wiped out after a year now (they never used to be), in this context I think it's a good thing, as it will drop off in 12 months. In the old days it used to be permanent.

I am not sure if this was a scam or an actual mistake that once it was opened the person decided to go to extremes on as if by doing so they could make it true. Because of those comments about "having a different take" and then admitting they assumed it was from you because of the postmark, rather than being certain. A proper scammer doesn't admit those things or say those things. I am wondering whether someone else opened the package ahead of her and maybe messages got scrambled. I remember her saying about getting the packing out of the trash, but her husband had to do that? It doesn't sound like she paid a lot of attention to a package. But I have found in the past that people, when they make a mistake, sometimes cling to it even more firmly and go to town on defending it because they feel stupid.

...I think that's what you were a victim of here. I wouldn't be surprised if someone in her family opened it and just told her that was what was in it. Or some other reason, maybe something happened to the pony after it was opened...

In any case, the conclusion sucks and I'm sorry it ended that way. Will be taking the bidder name and adding it to my block list.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: banditpony on October 22, 2020, 10:52:44 PM
Although I am not a fan of the fact negatives get wiped out after a year now (they never used to be), in this context I think it's a good thing, as it will drop off in 12 months. In the old days it used to be permanent.

I believe the negative stays. It's the percentage that gets modified.
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Pokeyonekenobie on October 22, 2020, 10:58:26 PM
Oh my, it gets better!

I've been put through to a manager and I asked what would happen if I see her selling the item on?  That is surely breaking the rules as she made a false claim saying she didn't receive it, got her money back, but then sold it on.

And apparently, you'll love this, that's not against the rules! Because I wouldn't be able to actually prove that the item she's selling is the one I originally refunded her for! And also, as eBay never forced me to refund her and I did it to close the case and try to make peace, it's on me and I have nowhere to turn.

I even pointed out that the buyer admitted they only assumed the package was from me because the postage mark came from the UK.... they admitted this in the messages for the reps to see, but apparently makes no difference.

The negative feedback is "merely a reflection of the buyers experience, so cannot be removed" and "we are not an insurance company so it is not our place to decide who is lying". Direct quotes.

Watch out folks, the Bay is getting worse...  :shocked:

So what's to stop one of us from doing it to her should she resell it?  Based entirely on this information, eBay would have no recourse but to force her to give it up as well and not do anything to whoever purchased it from her.  And really, a photograph showing what was "inside" the package could be very easily faked.  All it would require is to remove the original item, find another item of similar size and place it inside.  (Sorry, I'm a writer and go through many scenarios of what would and wouldn't work for my villains to get away with things so I think of stuff like this all the time--not that I'd actually do it.)
Title: Re: Problem with eBayer
Post by: Taffeta on October 22, 2020, 10:59:26 PM
Although I am not a fan of the fact negatives get wiped out after a year now (they never used to be), in this context I think it's a good thing, as it will drop off in 12 months. In the old days it used to be permanent.

I believe the negative stays. It's the percentage that gets modified.

Yeah, that';s what I meant. It won't appear on the %, so someone would have to go digging to find it.

@Pokeyonekenobie

I think from our pov as buyers, or sellers, ignoring her sales and blocking her from bidding on our items is the best way to handle this. It's never a good idea to tangle with someone who may be running a sophisticated scam - remember you have to disclose some personal information to someone you transact with. It's not worth the risk.

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