The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: tulagirl on July 05, 2013, 06:08:56 PM
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I have been getting irritated with some sellers that put in the Best Offer Option with only a high priced bin. The thing is some of these sellers seem to either decline every offer, or worse just ignore their offers and let them expire. You can see this history on the auctions for their items. I don't understand the point of having a Best Offer on an auction if a seller has no intention of taking any offer lower than their BIN. What is the logic in this? If they intend on ignoring all their offers and letting them expire then why do they bother with this option on their auctions? I am also not talking about store owners either. These are just regular sellers but they don't have a minimum bid, just high Bins. Sure its fine if they want a certain price for an item, I get that. Something really is only worth what someone is willing to pay. So if they want the highest amount possible for their item...then why waste a bidder's time with a Make an Offer when they have a proven history of declining every offer and many offers at that?
To me it just seems like a waste of time really. Does anyone else notice this sometimes? Not only does it seem the prices are totally unrealistic, but the auctions are just going to run and run with no purchase and you will probably see that same auction over and over and over. I don't get it. :nuts: :wonder:
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Oh, even more irritating for me is when they give you a counter offer of exactly the BIN price, and when you try to haggle they return with another counter offer of $1 less than the BIN... what is the point?!
I recently did a Best Offer but was ignored just like the 20 other people who had tried. In fact, all offers on the item had been ignored and expired, except for one which was declined. A little common sense and communication goes a long way.
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I consider Best Offers on BINs "silent auctions".
But this never happened to my boyfriend, because he got me Caribbean Delight and Beach Belle for $95 best offer and their BIN price was $109 :P (to me that was practically a bargain considering the amounts they were going for back then O.o)
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It could be that buyers are putting in ridiculously low offers. I can't tell you how many times I've had offers of $5-10 on items listed at $30-50. I'm sorry, but that's not a price drop I'm wiling to give. I typically make a counter offer in those cases, but if the buyer offers again at only $1 more I will decline right away. Since the offer amounts are only visible to the seller & potential buyer, it's a bit hard to judge which party is being unreasonable.
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It could be that buyers are putting in ridiculously low offers. I can't tell you how many times I've had offers of $5-10 on items listed at $30-50. I'm sorry, but that's not a price drop I'm wiling to give. I typically make a counter offer in those cases, but if the buyer offers again at only $1 more I will decline right away. Since the offer amounts are only visible to the seller & potential buyer, it's a bit hard to judge which party is being unreasonable.
True, but I know what my offers are and they are not low like that. I may not know what other people are offering, but I do know what I am offering and that is where the frustration for me is. What I have seen over and over is say 10 people have offered. All 10 have been rejected or expired. I come in a offer 3.00 less than the bin and get a rejection of my offer, to me this is a total waste of my time. 3.00 is not a lot of money so it just seems as though this type of seller has no desire to sell below their bin even with a reasonable offer. I guess that is what my point is. I don't really need to know all the bad offers they have had. If their bin is say 60.00 and I offer 57.00 and it is rejected then its pretty clear they only want the bin price. So, why have an offer then? Just stick with the Bin and don't waste the buyers time with offers. Its just irritating. I have also noticed that out of the 10 people there are not more than one offer per person and I have not received any counter offers. I am totally okay with the idea that they sell for what they want to get. Its just kind of silly to have an offer when you have no plans to accept any offer.
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I agree with KitKat that you would be amazed at the cheeky offers some people send for items. Just because it says Best Offer doesnt mean a seller is willing to take a bargain price. But I appreciate that has not been the case for you - it may explain the number of expired/refused offers however.
While, I am not defending people who refuse Best Offers, as a seller I will admit that sometimes I would prefer to hold out for a BIN. Often people use it tactically and yes some people use it on order to put a premium BIN price on their item.
If I have a £2500 item listed on ebay and its on a 30 day listing and I get offers of £2200 and £2300 in the first week, then I would perhaps be want to reject them. Because I know that their is interest in the item and because my listing is for 30 days and I may also have lots of people viewing/watching the item. So I would personally hold out to closer to the end of the listing and then make a judgement on whether I want to relist the item or take the next best offer which comes along.
I think a lot of factors can come to bear unfortunately.
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I have had the same problem. They just deny and never offer counter offer.
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i accept any serious offer on my BIN or OBO auctions. even if someone makes a ridiculously low offer i send them a counter offer and do not simply decline it :)
but i wont drop under the price i paid for the items. i also find it funny when i get an offer of 30 on a 120 pony and i send back 100 and get 35 back :D
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i accept any serious offer on my BIN or OBO auctions. even if someone makes a ridiculously low offer i send them a counter offer and do not simply decline it :)
but i wont drop under the price i paid for the items. i also find it funny when i get an offer of 30 on a 120 pony and i send back 100 and get 35 back :D
I do what Zora said!
I very rarely make offers and when I do, I offer only a bit lower than the BIN price. For example, there was a pony listed with a BIN price of $22.00 and I offered $20.00 and they did accept.
But I can see as a buyer, how it would be frustrating if you were putting in a very fair offer and it was either rejected with no counter offer or completely ignored. :(
As a seller, almost all of my ebay sales are BIN with OBO. I have automatic decline set for completely unreasonable offers (which people do make - i.e. they will offer $1.00 on an item I'm selling for $25.00). I guess it is possible that sellers have their automatic decline thingies set very close to their BIN price? :shrug:
If it is not completely and totally unreasonable I will always counter offer. I was selling a G1 for $10 and was offered $3. I made them a counter offer of $7 which technically is a 30% discount from my BIN price, they declined. I was selling a MOC G2 (well actually the card was far from mint) so I was selling her as a BIN for $6.99. I would have accepted $6 as a BO but probably not much lower as I originally purchased her for $11 plus shipping (I was selling because I upgraded to one with more pristine packaging). Luckily someone bought her for the BIN price. :)
I never hold out for the BIN price if a buyer puts in a solid BO. :ohyeah:
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I agree with Tula, it's completely ridiculous to even have a BIN option if you're not actually open to offers or will take like $1 off the price. Why waste everyones time?
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Yes Horsing this is exactly my point. You can set it to ignore the time waster buyers but to ignore an offer that is only 3.00 below a bin is just ridiculous to me. Sure its okay to do, but my whole point in this post is that its a waste of time. Just have your bin and don't do the whole make an offer thing when you have no intentions of using it. I could see waiting out for 200.00 or something, but this is not my experience. This is for auction that are not holding out for 200.00 they won't take even 3.00 less than a very high bin. I do see the point that it could be used as a selling tactic but that doesn't fit with what I am actually frustrated with. I am not talking about those types of sales where that much money is involved. Why would a person need to hold out for 1.00, 2.00, or even three dollars? Just do a bin and leave it at that.
I very rarely make offers and when I do, I offer only a bit lower than the BIN price. For example, there was a pony listed with a BIN price of $22.00 and I offered $20.00 and they did accept.
This is exactly what I am talking about. In addition what I am seeing though is when the offers are rejected the item is re-listed over and over and over and over and never sold. There is no logic in this.
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I completely understand your frustration tulagirl :) - as mentioned I have been there as a buyer trying to make a judgement call and been there as a seller in making best offers and either having them declined or simply ignored. I was simply pointing out that sometimes people use it as a tactic even for that $1 or $2. To be honest if I come across sellers like that, I know that they are never worth the bother of running back to. :(
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Most of my BIN offers are usually, the lowest, are half the price. I can understand when it is something used, something I won't be able to sell easily, something that isn't in demand, or something I know that may not work.
*gets eyed at*...what? Garage sale of stuff online. In times like these, I'd take anything that's reasonable :X
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It could be that buyers are putting in ridiculously low offers. I can't tell you how many times I've had offers of $5-10 on items listed at $30-50. I'm sorry, but that's not a price drop I'm wiling to give. I typically make a counter offer in those cases, but if the buyer offers again at only $1 more I will decline right away. Since the offer amounts are only visible to the seller & potential buyer, it's a bit hard to judge which party is being unreasonable.
THIS... drives me nuts. last time i got an offer of 5$ on a 400$ item.. i mean at that point its trolling.
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I'm one of those people who has set up an auto decline now because of the ridiculous low offers I kept getting ( last one was £50 for a £200 item which was already listed for sale at a lot lower price than the exact same item other ebayers were selling - what a cheek! not as bad an offer as the one you got though BLS! :crazy: ). I guess with that particular item if you'd checked how many offers were declined then it would have looked pretty bad! but I only actually declined a few offers personally (the rest were auto declined) , and I was willing to take up to £50 lower than the BIN if anyone had made me a decent offer. I relisted the item a couple of times with the same result and decided in the end to keep it a while longer. Thats just my own latest experience although I'm thinking that this happens to quite a lot of people . But I've also been the buyer trying to make an offer and kept having it refused or ignored altough it was only a few $ lower than the asking price - which is crazy - so I can see both sides.
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Yea I see what you are saying Ringlets. I have never had the experience of being a seller and using this option. Its good to see though that I am not the only one that is giving a very good offer a few dollars short and being ignored. Its just a waste of time. I guess its also a waste of time to deal with buyers who want a 50.00 item for 5.00.
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Is it possible to message a seller with Best Offer and say, "Hey, I am looking at 3 of your items... they are $10 each, can I make an offer for $25 for those three? I can see where that would be a useful tool for sellers.
But... I can't see the logic in offering a few dollars less for an item. If it's priced at $50, then why would you offer $47? I'd consider that a waste of time as a seller. Most sellers realize that you need to set your BIN's and auctions for the lowest amount they are willing to take for the item. This alone makes it a deterrent for Best Offer!
Nobody is going to offer *more* than the item is listed for, only less. So it seems to me that having a Best Offer available is best when you have a potential buyer looking at more than one item for sale. I guess we should consider "Best Offer" as more of a seller's benefit, NOT a buyer's benefit. :( It's not really a way to "shop for a deal" on Ebay... not that you really can shop for a deal on Ebay anymore, but that's a different story...
I can see both perspectives but I understand why it's maddeningly frustrating for both sides as well.
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There is a lot of logic to it LovesB. Because if I only have so much money and the pony with the shipping is past what I have but I almost have all of it...why am I considered a time waster for trying to get it with what I do have even if it is only 3.00 or 2.00 less? That really is not a fair way to look at a buyer. I am not wasting your time if I am trying to buy something you are selling. :huh: If its 50.00 plus 3.00 shipping and I only have 47.00 to spend its worth it to me to try to see if I can get it for that. If sellers think that someone like me trying to save a couple of dollars is a time waster then something is wrong with this system and the way people are assessed on ebay.
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There is a lot of logic to it LovesB. Because if I only have so much money and the pony with the shipping is past what I have but I almost have all of it...why am I considered a time waster for trying to get it with what I do have even if it is only 3.00 or 2.00 less? That really is not a fair way to look at a buyer. I am not wasting your time if I am trying to buy something you are selling. :huh: If its 50.00 plus 3.00 shipping and I only have 47.00 to spend its worth it to me to try to see if I can get it for that. If sellers think that someone like me trying to save a couple of dollars is a time waster then something is wrong with this system and the way people are assessed on ebay.
just to play devils advocate, then why do you say its time wasting for the seller? if the buyer is immune to being called a time waster on the basis of the same few dollars here? i mean buyers are already immune to almost everything on ebay nowadays.. lets not give them the immunity from being a time waster too. Just saying.
edit to add: i also want to say i see it as a benefit to offer BIN for both parties, plus it allows both buyers and sellers to test the market so to speak, with time and offers. :) i appreciate the fact that i can set bins on my items, it helps me determine market value within a few weeks. if the nibbles are few and far between then i need to drop my price, if they come in in droves with offers as soon as i list, means i need to let it sit and watch the market for a bit. and if i have a quick sell i know my item was priced fairly.
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There is a lot of logic to it LovesB. Because if I only have so much money and the pony with the shipping is past what I have but I almost have all of it...why am I considered a time waster for trying to get it with what I do have even if it is only 3.00 or 2.00 less? That really is not a fair way to look at a buyer. I am not wasting your time if I am trying to buy something you are selling. :huh: If its 50.00 plus 3.00 shipping and I only have 47.00 to spend its worth it to me to try to see if I can get it for that. If sellers think that someone like me trying to save a couple of dollars is a time waster then something is wrong with this system and the way people are assessed on ebay.
just to play devils advocate, then why do you say its time wasting for the seller? if the buyer is immune to being called a time waster on the basis of the same few dollars here? i mean buyers are already immune to almost everything on ebay nowadays.. lets not give them the immunity from being a time waster too. Just saying.
edit to add: i also want to say i see it as a benefit to offer BIN for both parties, plus it allows both buyers and sellers to test the market so to speak, with time and offers. :) i appreciate the fact that i can set bins on my items, it helps me determine market value within a few weeks. if the nibbles are few and far between then i need to drop my price, if they come in in droves with offers as soon as i list, means i need to let it sit and watch the market for a bit. and if i have a quick sell i know my item was priced fairly.
Because if they are only going to sell it for a bin anyway and deny all offers then they are wasting their own time dealing with ongoing offers. That is pretty simple. If you want only what you are asking for in a bin then I see no reason to do a offer. The only thing is you do bring up the point of testing the market with this which I wasn't aware of. That perhaps they are just testing the market. However, in the cases I have mentioned before please know that I did remark about the fact that these items have been listed and re-listed more than 3 times. Seem like a waste to me to not take an offer. Not have a store and set up a bin over and over and over and it never sells. So, if they were testing the market why test it over 21 days? Its just odd behavior at best. If all they are doing is testing the market per say...why would they bother when they know that 90% of their offers will be so low its ridiculous? I think that is odd also, because that does not give a seller an accurate test of value. Its just a circus parade of ridiculousness. So back to my whole point that I get someone wanting to test the market, but if ebayers for the most part are not giving fair offers and then I come in and give one and the auction ends...its relisted...ends...its relisted....ends not sold yet again. This is just silly selling.
Post Merge: July 08, 2013, 11:28:11 AM
If you want to determine the market value look at the auctions that have sold and do an average of several of them and that will be more accurate than anything else. If you are wanting to know interest in your item you can see that with watchers on your account.
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As a buyer, sometimes I have sent what I know is an insanely low offer as an attempt to get a counter offer from the seller. If they counter at 5-10% off, then I'm good to go. If they counter at the BIN price or $1 off, then they put the Best Offer option there for... some reason that I have yet to fathom. It's annoying when they don't respond, but then I up my offer and see how it goes from there.
On non-pony things I have had the luck of a seller accepting a Best Offer of 50% off the original price (or more, it was crazy)... but then declining an offer on another item that was 5-10% off the BIN price. :blink: It seriously boggled my mind.
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It is a annoying game! If The seller never replys, I never offer anything else ever when Items expire. I have had 1 person reply after the expiring best offer. The other sellers that price their items so High is beyond me. I would love to know their reasoning for setting such a super high price? For example when shopping for a pony I will see one for 20 plus dollars plus shipping & handling than right next to that pony is another one much cheaper with free shipping & handling. I think it would be a no brainer there. I do get wanting to get your money back on these ponys, but some people are beyond insane. I will often see what the most expensive item is for something im searching for just for giggles- does anyone else do this?
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It is true... I have experienced this myself and it is totally frustrating! But some sellers do use these types of techniques as price checks and price manipulation. :( Very irritating situation but one day there may be a reason to understand both sides of the perspective if you don't want to sell something for less than its value.
It happens a LOT with dolls, by the way! :(
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It is a annoying game! If The seller never replys, I never offer anything else ever when Items expire. I have had 1 person reply after the expiring best offer. The other sellers that price their items so High is beyond me. I would love to know their reasoning for setting such a super high price? For example when shopping for a pony I will see one for 20 plus dollars plus shipping & handling than right next to that pony is another one much cheaper with free shipping & handling. I think it would be a no brainer there. I do get wanting to get your money back on these ponys, but some people are beyond insane. I will often see what the most expensive item is for something im searching for just for giggles- does anyone else do this?
Yes that always confuses me also. You have your pony up for sale and there are like 5 more all much more reasonable in price. Those seem to sell and yours does not...hmmmmm maybe the price is a little high? I understand that people want a pure profit. They want the buyer to pay for the seller and paypal fees and still make a profit on their item. Its just really frustrating to see some of the prices we see now for certain things.
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Some of those offer ratios are ridiculous. I felt my initial offers might be taken as insultingly low at 50% of the BIN the few times I've made them. Overall though, as a buyer I've had good experiences with best offer in the three cases I remember. One accepted my initial offer to my surprise, another counter-offered asking for retail price which I hadn't realized I was under and agreed to, and the third case ended with no agreement reached. The third one left a good impression during negotiation though and I remembered to come back to them for their price matching offer before I bought somewhere else.
As for sellers, I would understand not wanting to go too far under what they initially wanted, but if they can't even bring themselves to accept 2-3 dollars less then they aren't really interested in offers since no one is going to offer more than BIN.
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As others have mentioned they might have some other reason for having a best offer. I know when I shop around for an item if I see one with a best offer lots of times I'm drawn to that one since "I might get it cheaper". They might hope someone will end up buying despite the price? Who knows. I guess though they didn't think it was a waste of time to put it up since they have done it and continue to put it up, especially if they have it set to auto decline offers. It's really not wasting their time at all.
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I used to have best offers for my items but the amount of ridiculous low offers made me reconsider that option and I changed it. I honestly don't have time for an item that is listed way below everyone else's prices for someone to come in and make an offer of a $1 or $2 several times. It's frustrating.
It is also frustrating when you do not have Best Offers on things and people contact you and say "Well I can get it for this amount elsewhere." I have no objections to that but if it can be purchased elsewhere then I say "Go for it."
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Yea once when I was selling a very expensive pair of designer shoes, I got offers constantly through ebay pm's. They begged me to sell the shoes at very low prices. I was selling them for 165.00 when they were originally 350.oo. People wanted them for 75.00. I knew I could get more. I didn't bother with the make an offer option and, I still got tons of pms begging me to sell low. They wanted to do a bin and have me change the price. I said no and had to block every one that asked me to do such a thing to avoid them trying it anyway. I even got hate mail about how I would never sell them for 165.00 and so on. Well, they did sell to someone that wanted them and everything went well. I just feel that a offer option should only be used when you are willing to take less than your bin. If you are not willing to take less than your bin then don't set the offer option on your listing. This makes the most sense to me. I realize though that what seems logical to me obviously is not logical to some sellers. Live and let live I suppose. I only feel frustrated with this and that was the point of my post.
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just to clarify, ;) if someone offers me a few dollars below my asking (unless its a dollar or 2 dollar item with free shipping or something LOL) i would totally take it :P i was only curious as to the ferocity towards sellers doing this, when buyers are also haggling ridiculously too both parties have and will continue to do so. honestly the discussion of this was kind of a run in circles thing in my honest oppinion. (we need a blow off steam section lmao) its just that its always been an issue and its never going to go away. if you keep dealing with sellers who do this, just drop it and move on, they obviously (as stupid as it is) dont want to take the bin for lower.
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ugh i had soemthing similar happen, but not with ponies... someone had a wholesale lot of clothing up for $3000, which as REALLY high as is since unless you are a specialty store its going to be realllly hard to move that stuff n still make a good profit! so i offered $2300, which I thought was pretty fair but I figured theyd want a little more... what did they offer me?? $2800.... not erally worth it but I talked to them off ebay (im a seller, so I know ebay is taking such a HUGE cut, Id get a better deal doing it in person, sine they lived only a few hrs away) they still only said $2500 and in the end i walked away because it was just not a good price.... and they got mad at me for backing out of the deal.
I really see no point in expecting someone to pay the price they were asking and the refusing go to lower than a $200 discount, they are never going to sell this stuff...
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Hmmm, Im getting a bit puzzled reading all of this.. I have always been under the assumption that when a seller offers something with the BO option, they set the price a bit higher just too make room for offers. I always begin with an offer that is 50% of the BIN, hoping for an counter offer. I just love "the game" that follows! One time I made offers on 6-7 auctions from the same seller and she counter offered me on all of them. And then I counter offered her and so on. I ended up buying 6 of them, and I think she was as satisfied as I was. I love the BO option because I feel like Im in a market somewhere, sound stupid maybe.. :blush:
Most times when Im on Ebay I set the options for BO auctions only, because I love the feeling of making an offer and then wait for the response. But half the time the seller just decline my offer without an counter offer and I have always find that weird, but reading this thread... Now Im just more confused.. :huh:
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Sorry that the thread was confusing, I think what has made this thread confusing as posts have not stayed on topic to my original post. This may be my fault and I am talkative even online ROFLOL. I wanted people to post if they had noticed this kind of problem as much as I have on ebay. I appreciate the posts where people have actually told me they have had issues. That is what I really wanted to know. If it was only happening to me then it would have been a case of bad luck lol. I did find out though that some others were dealing with it. That information is very helpful to me. ;) I am glad to hear the sellers opinions as that has been interesting to note.
What you describe is something I never have experienced with offers, but that is really nice that your offers have worked so well for you for the most part. To me that is a seller that is using their offer option the right way. Yay for them. Thats wonderful. :satisfied:
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Sorry Tulagirl, what I meant that was confusing for me is that a lot of people does not seem to share my opinion of why one uses the BO option. I have noticed the problem and I always get really frustrated when a seller just decline my offer instead of making a counter offer, for me that tells me the seller does not understand the thought behind using the BO option. If you do not want offers, just have the BIN option!
On the other hand, I do understand the frustration when a seller only gets really low offers, but one can never know how high the bidder is ready to go if one do not make a counter offer.. :huh:
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Sorry Tulagirl, what I meant that was confusing for me is that a lot of people does not seem to share my opinion of why one uses the BO option. I have noticed the problem and I always get really frustrated when a seller just decline my offer instead of making a counter offer, for me that tells me the seller does not understand the thought behind using the BO option. If you do not want offers, just have the BIN option!
On the other hand, I do understand the frustration when a seller only gets really low offers, but one can never know how high the bidder is ready to go if one do not make a counter offer.. :huh:
Yes, you and I are on the same page with how we see those things! I agree 100%.
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It's also important to keep in mind what items are being sold. Some people just have tons of stuff they put up on ebay with a random price (or a price they'd like to get, and have an option open for Best Offers.
I like to buy old books on ebay (by 'old' I mean books from my childhood, not like books from the revolutionary war or something lol) and often I'll find BIN's with prices that are really too high for what I'd want to pay. I usually try to offer half of what they're asking (like if it's a lot they set for $40 before shipping, I offer $20) and many times I've had the seller take the offer! But if I offer $20 and they come back with $38, I'll just move on to another lot and not bother responding with a counter-offer, as they obviously aren't interested in really lowering their price for me.
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I wonder if buyers are putting in crazy low offers, in the hopes that a seller will accidentally click 'accept' instead of 'decline'.
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ugh speaking off best offer time wasters... i have been waiting on payment from one for 3 days now! no communication at all from them. and now i think i have to open a NPB :( and i accepted an offer of 160 for a 200$ lot.
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Yep add them to the long list of non paying bidders in every corner of ebay.