The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Mana Minori on July 20, 2018, 06:49:32 PM
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We've had a number of g1 throwbacks and references in g4- "General Firefly" being mentioned in "Testing, Testing, 1,2,3", "Gusty the Great" being mentioned in "A Flurry of Emotions", Seaponies being given prominence in the MLP (g4) Movie, The Smooze having an appearance in "Make New Friends But Keep Discord", Tirek being given an appearance in "Twilight's Kingdom Part 1 & 2" and leaked for an appearance in season 9, along with Grogar.
Well, what about Flutterponies? I've been dying for these adorable fairy ponies to hit the small screen for a while now, but if the season 9 leaks are to be believed, then I fear that they won't have a place for them if the villains aren't solid matter, like Arabus and the Smooze. ): I would think that little kids would've taken more of a liking to fairy ponies over mermaid ponies, but that's just me....
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Hasbro or the story creators probably thought that the Breezes were enough of a call back to Flutter Ponies... despite being basically two different pony species.
Which is sad really
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Most likely not, there's not really a need for them. Especially since we have Breezies which are similar enough in concept.
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Seriously doubting they'd be included due to the perceived ending of the series soon.
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Hasbro or the story creators probably thought that the Breezes were enough of a call back to Flutter Ponies... despite being basically two different pony species.
Which is sad really
ahahaha, you're kidding, right? Those little fleas that couldn't even fight against a passing breeze you're comparing to the most op ponies who don't even need the rainbow of light to steamroll a villain? Really? (and if Hasbro thinks that, too, then they're crazy). There's NO comparison and it's pretty much an insult to even imply g4 Breezies resemble anything about the Flutterponies. Completely different species....as you said.
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Eh, Id rather they come back in gen 5. Especially if they're going with that art style. Not worth it to bother when it's lumbering towards its end.
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The focus has been shifted to Twilight's school. If ever there was a space to introduce a new pony race, it would have been during the Explore Equestria theme.
But would there even be a purpose to having flutters in G4? In G1, their presence was justified by their unique massive utter flutter power. In G4, Twilight and the elements of harmony are equally (if not more) powerful compared to flutter ponies.
And I don't think the creators had flutters in mind when they made the breezies. They're another heritage from G3 - Hasbro's idea for a recycled G3 theme that was pushed onto the show runners for publicity.
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Isn’t like to see flutter ponies, but I think the big guys at hasbro made the breezies and figured “Eh, good enough.”. It sells adorable little pony fairy toys. That’s all they were made for and to give fluttershy a rainbow key item thing.
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The focus has been shifted to Twilight's school. If ever there was a space to introduce a new pony race, it would have been during the Explore Equestria theme.
But would there even be a purpose to having flutters in G4? In G1, their presence was justified by their unique massive utter flutter power. In G4, Twilight and the elements of harmony are equally (if not more) powerful compared to flutter ponies.
And I don't think the creators had flutters in mind when they made the breezies. They're another heritage from G3 - Hasbro's idea for a recycled G3 theme that was pushed onto the show runners for publicity.
well, they're introducing Kirins in this season, sooooo.....
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Hasbro or the story creators probably thought that the Breezes were enough of a call back to Flutter Ponies... despite being basically two different pony species.
Which is sad really
ahahaha, you're kidding, right? Those little fleas that couldn't even fight against a passing breeze you're comparing to the most op ponies who don't even need the rainbow of light to steamroll a villain? Really? (and if Hasbro thinks that, too, then they're crazy). There's NO comparison and it's pretty much an insult to even imply g4 Breezies resemble anything about the Flutterponies. Completely different species....as you said.
This argument is entirely based on plotlines, but Hasbro cares about plastic and money.
The flutter ponies were notoriously delicate and broke really easily. If we forget our personal perceptions of these as fans and collectors, then you start to see the Hasbro viewpoint on these toys. Flutters were beautiful but delicate and thus they got replaced by wingers, which were more durable. Wingers are NOT flutter ponies, but they do fit in the broader toy producer's tickbox list of "smaller ponies with fairyish wings". Wingers do not break as easily, but can still break. G2 tried clip on wings. That's just wrong on all levels, thankfully G3 didn't follow that pattern. G3 experimented with lots of different wing features - wings that are basically fly swatting devices (Heart Bright, Star Flight) - they're probably closest to flutter in function but not in size. Fancy wings like Starcatcher but she seems more of a one off. And then of course, the smaller breezies with fabric wings.
Some of these have also appeared in G4 with the fancy fabric wings Twilight and Cadence toys, and also the Glimmer Wings sets. And then the Breezie concept has also continued.
What Hasbro seems to have learned since 1986 is to make whatever winged thing they insert durable enough for small hands to play with and not easily break. So I see no chance of anything we might recognise as flutters coming into G4. We've had a lot of ponies with fancy wing options and smaller fairy wing options, but Hasbro are not going to go back to a model that breaks easily. And Hasbro care about toy profits, not about the TV show per se. They care about that if it makes them money and gets kids to buy their toys - so ultimately it all comes down to the product.
For me, flutters are my favourite of all of these experiments with fancy wings. Flutters are also some of the nicest ponies to me displayed MIB with their wings unclouded and intact. But I'm a collector. I'm not a kid. And as a kid, it upset me when Tropical Breeze broke her wings, even though I was super-careful with her. And because she broke, I never had any other ponies with delicate wings as a kid. For Hasbro, that's not a good business model. I don't think flutter ponies will have a place in G4.
I don't understand G4 breezies though. I personally love G3 breezies, but aside the one that came with Fluttsi, don't have any G4 ones and don't really understand what they're trying to achieve with them. They're so tiny they're almost like pets and I know some came out as blind bags. So yeah. I understand what you mean about them being kind of pointless. :/
Going on a second to a slightly different topic, I'm getting a little weary of western kid's shows trying to jump on the asian culture bandwagon because of how popular anime and stuff is at the moment. MLP already kind of did it I think with discord (I'm pretty sure he's a ryuuma?) and now they're bringing in a kirin as well? Sigh.
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The focus has been shifted to Twilight's school. If ever there was a space to introduce a new pony race, it would have been during the Explore Equestria theme.
But would there even be a purpose to having flutters in G4? In G1, their presence was justified by their unique massive utter flutter power. In G4, Twilight and the elements of harmony are equally (if not more) powerful compared to flutter ponies.
And I don't think the creators had flutters in mind when they made the breezies. They're another heritage from G3 - Hasbro's idea for a recycled G3 theme that was pushed onto the show runners for publicity.
well, they're introducing Kirins in this season, sooooo.....
Oooh, do tell, I haven't kept up with spoilers except for Spoiler
Grogar's appearance
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I agree western shows shouldn't try and put anime into kids programs, can you imagine a kids program with a Titan in?
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I agree western shows shouldn't try and put anime into kids programs, can you imagine a kids program with a Titan in?
just becaus there is going to have a Japanise mythological creature in t doesn't make it "anime". They've been borrowing cultural mythology since episode 1.
Technically, FiM is already "anime", just by being an animation.
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Considering the toy line only, they sure loved to put butterfly wings on random characters. So maybe next time?
It would be kinda cool to end that "all powerful unicorn/alicorn" thing and just bring back these pony Elves who don't quite care about the plight of the other MLP :lol:
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I thought the glimmer wings were closer to the wingers myself.
*imagines taffeta seeing a fly land on her fresh made lunch, and grabs Starflite.* I warned you! *smash*
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I agree western shows shouldn't try and put anime into kids programs, can you imagine a kids program with a Titan in?
just becaus there is going to have a Japanise mythological creature in t doesn't make it "anime". They've been borrowing cultural mythology since episode 1.
Technically, FiM is already "anime", just by being an animation.
Technically not. In Japanese, anime is an abbreviation for the word that means cartoon, but in English, anime has a specific meaning as a type of cartoon. Like in Japanese, comics refers to specifically manga, even though manga refers to comic strips of various kinds. Just to confuse the world I guess?
I don't really think FIM is trying to be an anime. It's just a general annoyance of mine that because Japanese stuff is so popular, shows try to shove it in and ride the cool bandwagon. It happened some years ago with everyone saying stuff was kawaii and it drove me nuts then as well.
Japanese mythology and history is awesome, detailed and amazing. But not generally when it's appropriated into western kids' shows.
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I thought the glimmer wings were closer to the wingers myself.
*imagines taffeta seeing a fly land on her fresh made lunch, and grabs Starflite.* I warned you! *smash*
XD I'd feel sorry for the pony.
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I don't see a problem with Kinins, they are not really 100% Japanese lore.. they are more of a creature from the Asian region (well Chinese and other East Asian cultures). They likely originated from China as the Qilin and the others created their own variations (Other Qilins, Girins, and Kirins), but knowing Hasbro they will go with the more popular design of them.
BTW, I don't think they should have ever added Wendigos to the world of MLP if we are to go with lore that should not be in a Western Kids show ;)
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I kinda hope they don’t bring in Flutter ponies. There’s already way more than enough diversity in this particular series.
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I don't see a problem with Kinins, they are not really 100% Japanese lore.. they are more of a creature from the Asian region (well Chinese and other East Asian cultures). They likely originated from China as the Qilin and the others created their own variations (Other Qilins, Girins, and Kirins), but knowing Hasbro they will go with the more popular design of them.
BTW, I don't think they should have ever added Wendigos to the world of MLP if we are to go with lore that should not be in a Western Kids show ;)
No, they are originally from China I think. In my original post I did say Asia, but we were talking about anime so I got to mentioning Japan specifically. Sorry for being obtuse. I know the words best in the Japanese reading, I don't speak Chinese, but I'm pretty sure it's probably still from 麒麟, as opposed to キリン, which is giraffe >.>. Originally I was going to say something about Miraculous and the akuma, but apparently I took it out before I posted, so that's why it got confused to being about specifically Japanese stuff.
I am quite fond of Miraculous and think it's cute, but the random use of the term akuma, the connection to the butterflies (and the horrible pronunciation) kind of bugs me every time since the word akuma signifies a pretty hard core evil demon, and spirit butterflies are meant to represent the souls of the dead in Japan, not demons. (and in this instance it is a Japanese word, although the Miraculous concept itself is apparently connected to China...).
In any case my problem isn't with them being included. It's the token and superficial attention to the concept because at the moment it seems fashionable...
So yeah. It's not the inclusion, but the manner of it. And I am really not a fan of "lets gather all the random mythical beasts of the world into one animated series because we can!"
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I don't see a problem with Kinins, they are not really 100% Japanese lore.. they are more of a creature from the Asian region (well Chinese and other East Asian cultures). They likely originated from China as the Qilin and the others created their own variations (Other Qilins, Girins, and Kirins), but knowing Hasbro they will go with the more popular design of them.
BTW, I don't think they should have ever added Wendigos to the world of MLP if we are to go with lore that should not be in a Western Kids show ;)
No, they are originally from China I think. In my original post I did say Asia, but we were talking about anime so I got to mentioning Japan specifically. Sorry for being obtuse. I know the words best in the Japanese reading, I don't speak Chinese, but I'm pretty sure it's probably still from 麒麟, as opposed to キリン, which is giraffe >.>. Originally I was going to say something about Miraculous and the akuma, but apparently I took it out before I posted, so that's why it got confused to being about specifically Japanese stuff.
I am quite fond of Miraculous and think it's cute, but the random use of the term akuma, the connection to the butterflies (and the horrible pronunciation) kind of bugs me every time since the word akuma signifies a pretty hard core evil demon, and spirit butterflies are meant to represent the souls of the dead in Japan, not demons. (and in this instance it is a Japanese word, although the Miraculous concept itself is apparently connected to China...).
In any case my problem isn't with them being included. It's the token and superficial attention to the concept because at the moment it seems fashionable...
So yeah. It's not the inclusion, but the manner of it. And I am really not a fan of "lets gather all the random mythical beasts of the world into one animated series because we can!"
Well now I know where Miraculous and Akuma come from, only time I've heard those was with Ladybug and Cat Noir xD
But yeah they are going a bit overboard. I don't mind it being a one shot deal but it gets hard to keep up with all the cluster of races getting added.
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Well, Miraculous is obviously an English word, but the record player/box thing that the guardian guy has has the characters for miracle written on it in kanji (奇跡）. I have no idea where the idea for that came from, but the animation is trying to link it to China. In Japanese that word is read as kiseki, but I am guessing, as he's Chinese, that it's meant to be the Chinese reading, whatever that is.
Going back to flutters (xD) and pony diversity.
There's also the whole school thing as well. So the ponies are teaching other species how to be friends with each other, is that about the size of it? Because it reminds me of that horrible episode I did see some of with the Gryffins...the one where Pinkie Pie and Dash manage to lose/destroy their sacred treasure, lecture them on how they ought to be friends and how friendship is a greater treasure...
Kind of gave the wrong message in my view - not the idea of spreading friendship, but the way in which the ponies just went, oh well, your treasure's gone, but friendship is better so who cares.
Now the school where all these creatures need to be taught about friendship. Because they can't do it themselves...?
I dunno. It just feels all wrong to me.
Diversity of pony species was also a nice thing, I do agree with that. But I'm going to stick with my belief that the real reason we won't see flutter ponies is because Hasbro long since wrote them off as toys. Let's not forget that, at one point, a flutter house or something was planned...but got pulled. Clearly there was some kind of hesitation with flutters, probably the delicate wings. I don't think Hasbro will go there again. Glimmer wings is probably as close as g4 will go.
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Well, Miraculous is obviously an English word, but the record player/box thing that the guardian guy has has the characters for miracle written on it in kanji (奇跡）. I have no idea where the idea for that came from, but the animation is trying to link it to China. In Japanese that word is read as kiseki, but I am guessing, as he's Chinese, that it's meant to be the Chinese reading, whatever that is.
Going back to flutters (xD) and pony diversity.
There's also the whole school thing as well. So the ponies are teaching other species how to be friends with each other, is that about the size of it? Because it reminds me of that horrible episode I did see some of with the Gryffins...the one where Pinkie Pie and Dash manage to lose/destroy their sacred treasure, lecture them on how they ought to be friends and how friendship is a greater treasure...
Kind of gave the wrong message in my view - not the idea of spreading friendship, but the way in which the ponies just went, oh well, your treasure's gone, but friendship is better so who cares.
Now the school where all these creatures need to be taught about friendship. Because they can't do it themselves...?
I dunno. It just feels all wrong to me.
Diversity of pony species was also a nice thing, I do agree with that. But I'm going to stick with my belief that the real reason we won't see flutter ponies is because Hasbro long since wrote them off as toys. Let's not forget that, at one point, a flutter house or something was planned...but got pulled. Clearly there was some kind of hesitation with flutters, probably the delicate wings. I don't think Hasbro will go there again. Glimmer wings is probably as close as g4 will go.
I hate the supposed superiority of ponies in fim. As if no other species can get along.
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Well, Miraculous is obviously an English word, but the record player/box thing that the guardian guy has has the characters for miracle written on it in kanji (奇跡）. I have no idea where the idea for that came from, but the animation is trying to link it to China. In Japanese that word is read as kiseki, but I am guessing, as he's Chinese, that it's meant to be the Chinese reading, whatever that is.
Going back to flutters (xD) and pony diversity.
There's also the whole school thing as well. So the ponies are teaching other species how to be friends with each other, is that about the size of it? Because it reminds me of that horrible episode I did see some of with the Gryffins...the one where Pinkie Pie and Dash manage to lose/destroy their sacred treasure, lecture them on how they ought to be friends and how friendship is a greater treasure...
Kind of gave the wrong message in my view - not the idea of spreading friendship, but the way in which the ponies just went, oh well, your treasure's gone, but friendship is better so who cares.
Now the school where all these creatures need to be taught about friendship. Because they can't do it themselves...?
I dunno. It just feels all wrong to me.
Diversity of pony species was also a nice thing, I do agree with that. But I'm going to stick with my belief that the real reason we won't see flutter ponies is because Hasbro long since wrote them off as toys. Let's not forget that, at one point, a flutter house or something was planned...but got pulled. Clearly there was some kind of hesitation with flutters, probably the delicate wings. I don't think Hasbro will go there again. Glimmer wings is probably as close as g4 will go.
I hate the supposed superiority of ponies in fim. As if no other species can get along.
I agree, that is rather grating. It started with Zecora and is still going on up to season 8, with the "superior species must teach ignorant species of the world about friendship!" And the fact that the species have to come to the ponies, to do so, on top of it. In a learning institution, no less. Didn't Twilight learn from teaching Starlight that "that wasn't the way Celestia taught her"?
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I was going to say the same thing about the friendship school. Why do the other creatures have to come to school to learn about being friends with different species? And most of the students are going because their parents/guardians told them to. I can kind of understand the Changelings since Queen Chrysalis was forcing them to be mean and only care about stealing love to survive and the hippogriffs since Queen Novo kept them hidden but are we really supposed to believe that only ponies know how to make friendship work and all other creatures know nothing?
I have never been able to get in to the Glimmer Wings They're wings seem way too big for the pony (like Starflight and Heart Bright. )
Ponyfan
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I have never been able to get in to the Glimmer Wings They're wings seem way too big for the pony (like Starflight and Heart Bright. )
I don't have any Glimmer Wings, but they also seem like they wouldn't be as effective as fly swats. My Heart Bright is much better in this department...
As for the superiority of species, I think it reflects modern politics and the desire to force every nation to become a democracy. Which is somewhat ironic when you think it over.
It's a good point about the school as well. Twilight learning about friendship is fine, that works in theory...but a friendship school sounds like a brainwashing device to me.
I really dislike the modern trend in kids' shows to force friendship down people's throats. Don't get me wrong, friendship is important. If you have a good loyal bond with someone it's the most valuable and precious thing you have. BUT for me there's something really wrong with the way the message is being conveyed and the school just makes it worse. They're also trying to spin off the end of Monster High and that school (which before the reboot was mostly working at the whole lets be friends without forcing let's be friends down anyone's throat) I think, but it's unfortunate.
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Well at least Hasbro is still consistent, on being hamfisted and cluelessly unsubtle in their morals. I suppose that ought to count for something. :huh:
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I don't see the problem to add an asian mythological creature in a "western" series. They've already added creatures from Greek and Babylonian mythology since season one. (Manticore, Chimera, Cockatrix,...)
Also, the season three(?) finale ("Twilight's Kingdom", Tirek, yadi yada) uses obvious anime tropes and that was the point. (Dragon Ball)
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They already have actually. Despite what the writers of Hasbroken might think, Discord is a VERY warped version of an Asian Dragon. Its a shame they turned him into a complete loon.
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They already have actually. Despite what the writers of Hasbroken might think, Discord is a VERY warped version of an Asian Dragon. Its a shame they turned him into a complete loon.
I think he's actually a Ryuuma (or however you read that in Chinese xD). (A Dragon Horse). Though as you say it's a warped presentation.
I'm going to reiterate but it's not the inclusion but the manner of it that I have problems with...
On another slightly incredulous note, does MLP seriously reference Dragonball? If so, it kind of underscores my point more about trying to fly with what is 'cool'.
The idea of DB references in MLP actually makes me shudder. Just when I thought FIM couldn't scrape the barrel any further...
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They already have actually. Despite what the writers of Hasbroken might think, Discord is a VERY warped version of an Asian Dragon. Its a shame they turned him into a complete loon.
I think he's actually a Ryuuma (or however you read that in Chinese xD). (A Dragon Horse). Though as you say it's a warped presentation.
I'm going to reiterate but it's not the inclusion but the manner of it that I have problems with...
On another slightly incredulous note, does MLP seriously reference Dragonball? If so, it kind of underscores my point more about trying to fly with what is 'cool'.
The idea of DB references in MLP actually makes me shudder. Just when I thought FIM couldn't scrape the barrel any further...
Yep, there's a DB-like fight between Twilight and Tirek in the season 4 finale.
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Taffeta : I don't think it has been claimed by writers, but I doubt they weren't referencing huge anime battles, DBZ-style, when they did the battle between Twilight and "Tirek".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5lymyoca0
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Taffeta : I don't think it has been claimed by writers, but I doubt they weren't referencing huge anime battles, DBZ-style, when they did the battle between Twilight and "Tirek".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5lymyoca0
Thank you for the link :)
I haven't really a clue what they're trying to do and wouldn't like to say for sure that they are or are not referencing any particular anime with that. I think it's a pretty generic last boss fight personally..?
If it is anime inspired, it's taking a stereotype from one genre of anime as opposed to really representing anime - and it raises some questions about the target audience at this point if that is really the case.
I think it's just a fight between Twilight and Tirek (whose involvement is of course a nod to the old series, but otherwise...?)
I don't like DB but I've seen enough of it to feel like MLP isn't referencing it particularly in this scene. But I guess it's just as problematic a cultural stereotype that anime = big last boss battles, so if that's how the creators are thinking at the time they made it, then who knows.
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it raises some questions about the target audience at this point if that is really the case.
Not really, as seven year old girls can like anime.
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Personally I would rather have zebras being expanded on
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it raises some questions about the target audience at this point if that is really the case.
Not really, as seven year old girls can like anime.
Of course they can, but DB is a shounen anime/manga series. Not that that precludes anyone from watching either that or FIM, but in terms of creative input, it would be a bit risky that the cultural reference might not fly. Unless the target audience is predominately brony, in which case...
Most of the big fight scenes we're talking about are also from that genre.