The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Majesty on December 30, 2017, 10:01:13 AM

Title: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Majesty on December 30, 2017, 10:01:13 AM
For me personally the last couple of seasons I've been watching FIM to have something to watch.
A lot of the shows I watched got cancelled and the few shows I watch are always on mid season finale or season finale too quickly and have nothing to watch in between.  I still kind of had hope that maybe I would continue to watch FIM and enjoy it but I don't anymore.

Does anyone else feel the same way?
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Safflower on December 30, 2017, 10:28:50 AM
I have kinda stopped as well. For me it has gotten repetitious with them learning the same lessons over and over again. Also all the mane six are kind of annoying to me now. They are okay, but they have a lot of traits that just get on my nerves for some reason XD 
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: SourdoughStomper on December 30, 2017, 11:40:02 AM
I've felt the same way since about season 3. :lookround:
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on December 30, 2017, 11:47:44 AM
If you aren't enjoying it then I think it's logical to stop watching it.  (That's how I felt about Hasbro's last Transformers cartoon--I got a few episodes in and was like "eh, don't like this.")

To be honest I think it makes more sense than not enjoying, yet continuing to watch.  We aren't contractually obligated to watch the cartoon just because we're MLP fans, lol.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on December 30, 2017, 12:03:22 PM
I continue to watch because there is the occasional gem like "Amending Fences", but the show on the whole has lost it's luster.  It has since at least Season 4 and perhaps Season 3 (ironically when they're were completely free of Faust's influence and Rob was replaced by Meghan as story editor).  I watch new episodes in case it turns out to be one of those gems or at least entertaining on some level, but I never bother with repeats.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Bewilderbeast on December 30, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
I got to the beginning of s5, I think, and stopped watching. I haven't seen anything for about two/three years, and I'm not fussed. It's gotten very meh.

If you want other cartoon recommendations, I hear Guillermo del Toro's Trollhunters is really good.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Tulips on December 30, 2017, 02:50:41 PM
I still put the new episodes on, and enjoy them for the most part, but I reckon a fair few of them end up just playing in the background when I get distracted by something else to do...
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taxel on December 30, 2017, 04:42:13 PM
I stopped after the season where the Cake twins were born and I only watched that long so I could tell a then-friend what was going on in the show. I just got so bored with it. There's so many other shows that I'd rather watch I don't have the time to waste on ones I'm meh on.

If an episode or scene is a really big deal in the community I might watch it, depending on why its making waves.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Saphy on December 30, 2017, 04:45:14 PM
It surprises me when people talk about it like this I hear this alot yet I think I love the show now more than ever. To each their own though.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jorgito93 on December 30, 2017, 04:47:17 PM
Well season 7 is my favorite one along with season 2, so i still love the show.
.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on December 30, 2017, 06:05:20 PM
I'm still as hardcore a FiM fan as ever, but it's more due to an attachment to the characters. Long after the show, I'll be making art and stories for the characters, but the show itself has suffered seasonal rot. Seasons 4 and 1 were my favorites, and the more recent seasons are placing pretty low on my rankings. I do want to see how the show will end, so I'll be along for the rest of the ride, however lonely that ride gets.
Many of the fans of the earlier seasons seemed to drop off around seasons 4 and 5.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: sd_dreamcrystal on December 30, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
I stopped around season 3 or 4. Something about it just kind of didn't set right with me.
Half the time I think part of what killed the show for me is some of the fan base, not everyone in the fan base but some lol
But there are other reasons, most of which was just what the show turned into basically
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Safflower on December 30, 2017, 06:11:56 PM
I'm still as hardcore a FiM fan as ever, but it's more due to an attachment to the characters. Long after the show, I'll be making art and stories for the characters, but the show itself has suffered seasonal rot. Seasons 4 and 1 were my favorites, and the more recent seasons are placing pretty low on my rankings. I do want to see how the show will end, so I'll be along for the rest of the ride, however lonely that ride gets.
Many of the fans of the earlier seasons seemed to drop off around seasons 4 and 5.
I kinda feel this too. Even if I find some of the characters annoying, I'm still attached to them. And I will definitely stick through till the end, even if I don't watch the episodes between now and the end.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: TJgamer on December 30, 2017, 06:12:24 PM
I'm still watching it, though mostly out of obligation at this point.
I still enjoy it for the most part. But I've grown more skeptical about this show since season 5.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on December 30, 2017, 06:13:27 PM
Half the time I think part of what killed the show for me is some of the fan base, not everyone in the fan base but some lol
This is actually a big reason as to why people stop watching. I see a lot of people who have had the show soured due to bigoted or rabid fans, it's sad that such a community has risen out of a show about friendship and understanding.
If it's not the core reason, it only motivates people tired with the repetitiveness of the show to drop it.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: RoseNoire on December 30, 2017, 06:55:09 PM
I like FiM, even more the late seasons. I have watched every episodes so far as well as the S8 leaks. I'm not sure I am some sort of hardcore fan, but I find enjoyment watching the show, watching the characters interact with each other in a funny or clever-ish way. I'm always up for a good laugh. FiM makes me happy and give me some cuteness, that's all I need.  ^.^
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Sawkinator on December 30, 2017, 07:00:43 PM
Yeah, the fandom and its reputation was the biggest reason for me to stop watching. I think it was early-mid season 4? It was getting harder to avoid the nastier parts and impossible to not be associated with those parts just by being a fan, regardless of how you actually behaved. :|

Honestly I think season 2 was the best of what I saw. Season 3 was somewhat disappointing because it was only 13 episodes (thanks to Equestria Girls, which I've never been interested in), and I feel like the writing and story became less... coherent? Like it was trying to be a deeper story (like, say, Steven Universe or The Last Airbender) but it just wasn't coming together. So many plot devices and awkward pacing and weak character motivations...

I definitely feel like FiM suffered in quality from Lauren Faust leaving, considering her experience and the fact that she created the show.

Even so, I am kind of interested in seeing the movie at some point. What I've seen of the animation is amazing and you just Do Not see 2D animation in theaters anymore.  :(
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on December 30, 2017, 07:23:20 PM
I don't remember where I sort of gave up on the show, but it was several seasons ago. 
There's only so much Cutie Mark Crusaders and 'let's redeem all the adversaries' I can stomach and the Mane 6 have gotten so pigeon-holed it's not even funny anymore. The show should have ended years ago, rather than being run into the ground like this.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Minty_Magic on December 30, 2017, 07:31:05 PM
I still enjoy watching the show even though I'm kind of critical of it. :P Basically I'll watch anything MLP, I'm always happy to see colorful talking ponies no matter whats going on plot wise!
I really love Starlight Glimmer and her gaggle of friends, they're a big part of why I still find the show fun! I loved the mane 6, but honestly I feel like they've pretty much completed all their little character arcs and are really starting to either stagnate or even maybe decline in their characterization. It's gotten better over time, but I'll always prefer simple one shot slice of life type episodes. I was really bugged by all the magic duels and battles that got thrown into some of the mid seasons. I also started losing interest around season 4 or so due to the brony fandom being so embarrassing.
With possibly not much longer left though, I plan on watching the show until its end. It's been a fun ride for the past few years and I'm really grateful to have had a fun, simple cartoon to come home and watch after stressful days at school and work.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jocelyn on December 31, 2017, 06:23:01 AM
I became spotty in my watching around season six, and I barely watched season 7. The other day I was looking for something to watch and put on the episodes where Applejack's a fashion judge and tge one about the princesses. It was hard to watch because everyone has gotten so sarcastic, sassy and nasty sounding. Or just very overexaggerated. It's kinda painful to see.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Harmonie on December 31, 2017, 07:27:24 AM
I'm still watching it, but not with the enthusiasm I was back in 2011 - 2013 or so. I did not keep up with the most recent season at all, and ended up marathoning most of it when I got home for break. I can say a lot of the episodes don't really work for me anymore. In the early seasons I related with Pinkie Pie so well, but then you get to an episode like "Secrets and Pies" and she just feels like nothing more than a ridiculous cartoon character now, with no relatability.

I plan to watch this show to the end, even though it's not anything amazing anymore.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taffeta on December 31, 2017, 07:51:55 AM
Half the time I think part of what killed the show for me is some of the fan base, not everyone in the fan base but some lol
This is actually a big reason as to why people stop watching. I see a lot of people who have had the show soured due to bigoted or rabid fans, it's sad that such a community has risen out of a show about friendship and understanding.
If it's not the core reason, it only motivates people tired with the repetitiveness of the show to drop it.

I was actually put off having anything to do with FIM at all in the first place by that kind of thing, which is sad and totally against the message of the show.

It took about 2 years before I watched any FIM. I got about halfway through the first season but I wasn't connecting with the characters or the storylines, so I stopped. In my opinion if people are enjoying it, then brilliant, if not, then it's a waste of time to watch for the sake of it. All that might do is spoil the things you loved about it by making them go in a direction you don't like.

In the end, everything has good and bad points. I still really like the Equestria Girls episodes, but even though I occasionally see FIM on TinyPop in the morning, I still can't get into it so haven't bothered with the movie.

So yeah. Halfway through season 1 was my limit. On the positive, it made me appreciate G1 animation more (which I had more or less rejected for years), so maybe the moral of the story is that the later FIM series' value might only become clear when it has been replaced by something else...;)

Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on December 31, 2017, 08:46:28 AM
Yeah.  I was watching some Tales episodes, and one of them was "Sweetheart's Birthday" where the solution was Lancer locking Bright Eyes, Melody, Patch, and Clover in the same with Teddy and essentially saying "You don't need to like each other, but you need to at least get along with each other for Sweetheart's sake."  When it was over, I thought to myself "We'd never get that kind of nuance from Friendship is Magic.  No one is ever allowed to be friends with anyone who isn't pro-Mane 6 and those that aren't converted must be ridden out of town on a rail."

And I also appreciate the original series even more.  It might be a cheap cartoon from the mid-80's but you get the sense they were at least trying to make the characters and stories compelling.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Kiwi on December 31, 2017, 01:06:27 PM
We still enjoy the show and will keep watching. But I've been feeling "meh" lately about the toys and merch. So I'll enjoy the parts I do enjoy, and move on from the parts I don't.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Koudoawaia on December 31, 2017, 01:07:42 PM
I'm not the least bit iffy about it. I still really love it^^
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: prancingstag on December 31, 2017, 07:59:59 PM
I attempted to continue watching for a while but checked out long ago. I liked it up until Twilight became an alicorn. I was naiively excited for some kind of development and progress amongst the cast, and was disappointed with the ensuing season where they seemed to do much of nothing. I think that was 2014's rainbow power? I'm pretty sure I struggled through the status quo episodes and saw the finale with the rainbow tree castle. Then maybe a little of the next season, hoping now they would develop and grow and change... I saw Starlight Glimmer get revealed as a villain and then mysteriously run away, I was so underwhelmed and disappointed that it was still on laugh-a-day villain-of-the-day stereotypical episodes that I stopped tuning in.

I still love the basic premise and the characters, but the constant building and teasing of something greater being developed only to be completely reset next time on FiM was really discouraging. Also the fact that every villain either disappeared completely, or if they returned had to be stripped down and remade into a friend rather than an antagonist. Like you can't exist if you oppose the majority... :rolleyes: there are cartoons for kids under 10 that have nuanced plotlines and character developing arcs, I'd rather watch something exciting and new-new than the sameold-newep that FiM was delivering to me.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Crystal-Sushi on December 31, 2017, 10:33:50 PM
I didn't even make it through Season One, it just didn't gel with me story and character-wise and I really couldn't stand the animation style - it's just too 'cookie-cutter flash' for me, one of my biggest pet peeves :P
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taffeta on January 01, 2018, 08:07:55 AM
Yeah.  I was watching some Tales episodes, and one of them was "Sweetheart's Birthday" where the solution was Lancer locking Bright Eyes, Melody, Patch, and Clover in the same with Teddy and essentially saying "You don't need to like each other, but you need to at least get along with each other for Sweetheart's sake."  When it was over, I thought to myself "We'd never get that kind of nuance from Friendship is Magic.  No one is ever allowed to be friends with anyone who isn't pro-Mane 6 and those that aren't converted must be ridden out of town on a rail."


Quote from: prancingstag
Also the fact that every villain either disappeared completely, or if they returned had to be stripped down and remade into a friend rather than an antagonist. Like you can't exist if you oppose the majority... :rolleyes:

These two comments sum it up really nicely for me. Being friends is awesome, but be friends or else is not so great. There needs more of an element of mutual dislike but respect for difference in these concepts as well.

I think that the more unpleasant bronies are acting on the message that if you don't agree with us, you're wrong. I don't think that's the message FIM is intending to convey, but the fact that all the villains become brainwashed to the mane 6 if they are going to stay around does basically amount to that.

But this is not a problem unique to FIM. It's a general practice now to push ideas on kids without considering the balance. Telling kids to be friends with everyone is naive - the way the madder bronies react to people who disagree with their interpretation kind of proves that that way of thinking is dangerous.

I don't think the same problem exists in the same way in the Equestria Girls series. I think the rival school helps this. They don't really like each other that much at times, and they don't really like the Canterlot girls either, but there are times they work together. Yes, there's a sense of them ultimately becoming sort of friends with the Canterlot students, but it's not entirely there. Then you have DJ Pon3 who kind of doesn't gel in with any 'crowds' but appears when she's needed to help save the day in Rainbow Rocks. The relationships between the characters are much more nuanced. Yes, friendship is still on the menu, but it seems more fleshed out. I understand the potential target age may be different, but to me that makes it more important to make the definition between making friends and treating with respect at the younger level.

It isn't that hard. I remember from when I was a kid that shows aimed at young kids, like Thomas the tank Engine, spent most of the 1980s telling the stories of characters who didn't always get along, but could still work together and keep their unique personalities without having to become something they weren't. It isn't as though kids are 'too young' to get the difference.

I had forgotten that scene happened in Sweetheart's Birthday. I think MLP was generally good at not making relationships immediately brilliant. I mean, Gusty and Buttons are bullying Wind Whistler in Crunch the rock Dog, and she ultimately uses that to save all of them - but the message at the end is that just because you think someone is a certain way, it doesn't mean they are. And that you can be on the same side without necessarily being best friends.


Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Zapper on January 01, 2018, 08:50:16 AM
The show didn't create the rabid fans, the rabid fans attached their identities and egos onto the show because apparently it's impossible to like (or dislike) a kids product without justifying it to hell and back , which can happen to any piece of entertainment but when it's about kids cartoons it becomes extra weird because we are not the target audience.

I even saw it a lot in the FiM critics corner we used to have here. With people honest to goodness seeing dangerous or insidious messages in an episode just because they interpret it that way (or wanted to find something horrible in it so they could concern troll us casuals ;) ).

Fan ist short for fanatic. Fanatism takes many forms and is not always based on the subject that is being fanboyed/fangirled.
Good shows can have horrible fans and antis. Bad shows can have horrible fans and antis. And they often come up with their own version of what the show means to them. Like a Brony who goes nuts and says Starlight is a communist or an anti who goes nuts and says the show teaches sexual harassment because something something Discord and Fluttershy's brother.

I'm sure none of the pro or anti fanatics will enjoy G5 because it is not possible to be the vision many have created of what MLP should be like. So new pros and antis will arise. MLP is a highly divisive toy and always will be, I fear :lol:

I've been feeling "meh" lately about the toys and merch. So I'll enjoy the parts I do enjoy, and move on from the parts I don't.

Sounds like a good plan. I did like the movie for its cuteness, songs and animation. But it didn't make me get anything because the new toy style is freaky to me.

@ topic: I do enjoy about half of the episodes each season. It has always been that way for me, I was never a ride or die FiM fan but also never a big critic. What irked me most was the pandering to adults and Bronies that could go way out of hand, imo. You will see me complain about Slenderpony or the Muffin pony drama  until the end of my fan time.

Some recs for people who like girly cartoons about friendship: Steven Universe, Star vs The Forces of Evil, Lego Elves. Just don't go into their fandoms :lol: Elena of Avalor.
For the people who enjoy kiddy shows and cuteness: Puffin Rock, Shimmer and Shine, Sofia the First, Hanazuki.
For the people who like sentient horses: Spirit Riding Free. Or wait two years for G5 ;)
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 01, 2018, 08:53:05 AM
I remember one of the brony "analysts" commenting about how Tales was the anti-Friendship is Magic.  This was of course meant as a negative since anything not from the ground smote by the almighty Faust is unholy and unclean.

Season 4 is definitely where the wheels came off and I stopped watching repeats.  The show had gotten extremely pretentious with the Rainbow Power arc which just the same episode done five times with the circumstances changed a little to fit the pony.  Twilight was pathetic as a princess and looked to be promoted to the level of her incompetence (and still does by the end of Season 7 as she still takes orders from a piece of furniture).

"Trade Ya" and "The Equestria Games" almost broke the series for me.  I sat there thinking of Twilight's punt on Rainbow Dash trading away Fluttershy and how if you put Wind Whistler, Bright Eyes, or Kimono in that situation (or even less intellectually inclined ponies from previous generations), they would have had no qualms voiding the trade on the moral ground that you can't trade away another pony.  Why is she a princess if she can't even make that basic of a decision?  Then "Equestria Games" shows us the population of Equestria are literally too stupid to live as they disable their most reliable resource to deal with an emergency at a public event because they want to stop cheating.  Yeah, as far as the population of Equestria is concerned, cheating is a pressing issue than public safety.  All because we needed Spike to save the day, and the walking fax machine couldn't do that unless the ponies eliminated any possible way for them to do it themselves.  By the time "Twilight's Kingdom" rolled around, I was like "You know what, let Tirac (or Tirek or however you feel like spelling it) eat them."
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taffeta on January 01, 2018, 09:27:22 AM
The show didn't create the rabid fans, the rabid fans attached their identities and egos onto the show because apparently it's impossible to like (or dislike) a kids product without justifying it to hell and back , which can happen to any piece of entertainment but when it's about kids cartoons it becomes extra weird because we are not the target audience.

All true, but the fact remains they are able to do so because the concept of friendship in FIM lacks nuances. A lot of people also lack nuances. Humans are tribal and they flock together - especially against something that doesn't fit in.

I don't think  MLP is that controversial really outside of that section of bronies. I mean, it was very hostile back in G1/2 transition, but for the most part ponypeople were over the hating on other generations a long time ago.

You're right that fan is short for fanatic and the more sinister meaning of that term can apply with some of those conversations. There do seem to be a lot of hidden things in G4, but most of them are hidden throwbacks to earlier generations. I sometimes feel like some of the crazier bronies like to find these big adult scary issues and labels in the show because if they do that they can also sever it from these connections to past generations. It's easier to make G4 subversive than it is to accept that it has influences from the generations being reviled and mocked. Or they just don't know about those links and so have to find a way to explain it to themselves.

But to get back on topic, the way people choose to interpret the show is their own prerogative. I think the decision to stop watching the show depends on how much you can connect to it. I mean, I love to see threads and connections between characters and plot development and I am the kind of geek who enjoys character building scenes more than big dramatic events. For me FIM's lack of evolution of character bonds from episode to episode is probably the biggest issue I had (and that has nothing to do with subversive bronies). I have seen odd episodes from later series and I didn't get confused about what was going on. That's great for people who want to just dip in, but if there's no evolution from season 1 to season whatever Discord is in, then there's no real impetus to go back and find out what you've missed.

I have to admit having a similar problem with the original G1 series. I love the Jem series, produced at the same time, but that's mostly because the characters that start the first episode are not the same 65 episodes later. You can't say that about MLP G1 or FIM. But you can say it about Equestria Girls, because both Sunset Shimmer and SciTwi evolve from a starting point to a finishing point and the others provide a supporting cast for that process.

I wonder if Starlight Glimmer was introduced to try and change that a bit, but it didn't work? I haven't seen any episodes with her in so I can't be sure...
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Zapper on January 01, 2018, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: Taffeta
I wonder if Starlight Glimmer was introduced to try and change that a bit, but it didn't work? I haven't seen any episodes with her in so I can't be sure...

As someone who has seen most of the episodes and is biased towards Starlight: Starlight is a reformed antagonist who in my opinion works in favor of the show.

I think the ponies did change in FiM, just not all of them because the status quo had to be maintained. Their crashing personalities are good for teaching lessons and it's up to the writer if a lesson is good or bad (the aforementioned Rainbow trying to trade Fluttershy's services for a book. Selling your friends into slavery is not ok, kids. Gotta learn that LOL)

Plus, while more and more cartoons do a storyline that leads to the end of the show, most shows don't lend themselves to that too well because the company doesn't want the toyseller to go away (shows like Gravity Falls or Last Airbender weren't solely created to sell merch so they got to have an ongoing plot).

In fairness, FiM was never meant to last 9 seasons and the changes that happened did often help the show grow up with its audience and still get kids hooked. From "I learned a lesson today, Mrs Teacher" to the ponies becoming mentors of their own, going outside of Equestria and meeting new characters.

Starlight, of course, changed a lot because she had to be reformed, but she was conceived as an anti-Twilight, so she had to keep some of those character traits. She is an example of a character who tries to actively learn the lessons of the show and is already used to act like a mentor as well (just messing up more than the others while doing so). Within two seasons she patched up an old friendship and became more of Twilight's assistant other than her student. Spike moved on from assistant to ambassador or something.
Discord sold the ponies out time and time again until new writers came in and wrote him into a different direction and he is more of a sidekick now and befriended the boys to get him away from Fluttershy. So I don't agree that the show resets each season. It's just following a formula:

Season start = fantasy two-parter,
Slice of Life stuff,
Fantasy two-parter = end of season

EqG was always the fantasy two-parter in movie form and now with the web show it's just Slice of Life again. I don't see a big difference in quality, just the audience is (supposed to be) different. Sunset changed from a bad girl to Twilight 2.0 and SciFy changed from Fluttershy to Twilight with Starlight's passion for experiments.
And now none of them get development either because the franchise got stuck in its tracks and will probably disappear together with G4 because Hasbro has a lot more girl properties now.

The villains get defeated or reformed in FiM because they couldn't seem to marry that good vs evil idea to the Slice of Life stuff. So they let the reformed villains mess up once in a while to create new problems and I honestly enjoy that.

But if the leaks are true they are working on that issue for the next gen so stay tuned :lol:
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Rainbow Dash on January 01, 2018, 11:55:08 AM
I crunch numbers.  It's a thing I do, so bear with me.  I've quantified this data by my own (biased) scale of enjoyment.  I have a 1-10 star ranking scale for the episodes.  By season:

Season:   1 2  3  4  5  6  7
10 stars: 4  2  1  1  0  2  0
9 stars:   5  6  2  0  2  3  2
8 stars:   3  1  0  7  5  3  6
7 stars:   2  0  3  2  9  6  6
6 stars:   2  2  1  1  2  5  5
5 stars:   0  4  2  6  3  1  1
4 stars:   3  4  3  4  2  3  2
3 stars:   3  0  0  3  0  1  2
2 stars:   1  3  0  1  0  0  2
1 stars:   3  4  1  1  3  2  0


My own take is one that echoes many of the complaints above, and that's that the series is stagnating (and has been since Twilight's ascension; which remains the point where the series jumped the shark in my opinion).  The early seasons had more 'hits' but they also had more 'misses' when it comes to my enjoyment of the episodes.  This most recent season had no episodes I despised enough to give only a one-star ranking, but it also had none I loved enough to give ten stars to.  Season 6 was a surprising uptick for me.  Buckball Season in particular strikes me as one of the best episodes of the entire series.

Later seasons are doing better in my rankings because they're so vanilla fewer new episodes are going into my 'hate it' territory).  That mediocrity is enough to make season 6 my favorite season by overall score.  But I don't like season 6 enough to give it my overall favorite season.  That honor goes to season 1.

The thing that bugged me most about season 7 is they brought back Iron Will, which is something I've been worried about since his first episode way back in season 2.  His episode would have been better served with the Flim Flam brothers as the villains, in all honesty.  I like Iron Will - he was a motivational speaker who believed in himself just a little too much.  And when Fluttershy said 'no' he left.  No scheming to get revenge.  No 'I'll get you next time, Gadget!'  He just left.  Now he's another money-grubbing get-rich-quick schemer like the already existing Flim Flam brothers.  Sigh.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: TJgamer on January 01, 2018, 01:04:29 PM
It's interesting how some of you see Equestria Girls as superior do to it being more based on real life, whereas FiM itself is trying to be more of an idealistic view of friendship. Sunset Shimmer is very well loved by many fans, both young and old, for a reason.
The thing that bugged me most about season 7 is they brought back Iron Will, which is something I've been worried about since his first episode way back in season 2.  His episode would have been better served with the Flim Flam brothers as the villains, in all honesty.  I like Iron Will - he was a motivational speaker who believed in himself just a little too much.  And when Fluttershy said 'no' he left.  No scheming to get revenge.  No 'I'll get you next time, Gadget!'  He just left.  Now he's another money-grubbing get-rich-quick schemer like the already existing Flim Flam brothers.  Sigh.
Ironically Iron Will was probably one of the more nuanced antagonists of the show, which made him very refreshing to watch. He may seem like just a tough brute who always gets his way, but he is willing to be reasonable when Fluttershy explained herself. The direction they took him with Once Upon a Zeppelin may have not been the wisest decision, but I'll take that over Flim and Flam any day!   :pout:
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 01, 2018, 01:12:00 PM
The problem is it's idealized to the point of being impossible to obtain and a bad message for children.  Think of all the uproar on characters on television having perfect bodies.  That's what this is only with an idea, and that's just as toxic.  The relationship between the Mane 6 is unhealthy.  The Mane 6 as individuals are unhealthy.  If this a random cartoon, we'd just chalk it up to being random cartoon fun.  However, this show continues to present itself as the instruction manual on friendship and these six are guides for little kids.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on January 01, 2018, 01:38:48 PM
I'm also in the camp that loved Season 1 and 2 and then started going off it a bit by season 3. It hasn't gone how I would have hoped. I'm a fantasy/sci fi fan at the end of the day and I like rich environments. I like strong concepts, continuity and long story arcs. I am not the target market  :biggrin:

I got to the beginning of s5, I think, and stopped watching. I haven't seen anything for about two/three years, and I'm not fussed. It's gotten very meh.

If you want other cartoon recommendations, I hear Guillermo del Toro's Trollhunters is really good.

Cool, thank you will check it out!

The relationship between the Mane 6 is unhealthy.  The Mane 6 as individuals are unhealthy.  If this a random cartoon, we'd just chalk it up to being random cartoon fun.  However, this show continues to present itself as the instruction manual on friendship and these six are guides for little kids.

Excellent, let's open this can of worms because I'm all ears! Can you expand a bit?
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 01, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
Let's take the case of Fluttershy, especially in "Fluttershy Leans In".  I remember this poster of destructive behaviors where one of them is someone swinging around a bat labeled "My Way" with two people flat on the ground labeled "Other Opinions" and "Another Way".  I think this sums up Fluttershy's behavior in this episode.  She gives vague instructions that don't make any sense, and then leaves the ponies to their own devices. Yet, she is in the right, and the designers are in the wrong.  She doesn't even try to work with them.

This is because they solved one problem with Fluttershy and introduced another.  She gone from being completely submissive to assertive to the point of being unreasonable.  This episode would have been a chance for her to learn to compromise and accept others opinions and ideas without completely giving in, but that would mean her being a nuanced character and they wouldn't be able to bring in a character from one of the worst episodes of Season 5.

Rainbow Dash is Rainbow Dash.  She's a self-absorbed, micro-brained jock who only cares about herself with zero empathy towards others.  She'll destroy others' property or cause them physical harm for her own amusement.  Equestria's entire environment can be thrown out of wack so that she doesn't have to spend a few months without her pet.  And yet, beyond the minor slaps on the pastern she gets in episode, she has gotten everything she wants and is idolized as if she's some kind of role model.

Pinkie Pie has dissolved into the walking gag machine where everything she does is supposed to be funny for the audience.  Case in point: even though she told Rainbow Dash that pulling pranks on Fluttershy is a big no-no (something Rainbow Dash would do anyway), Pinkie Pie gleefully reduces her to tears on multiple occasions two episodes after she had supposedly learned empathy to earn her key item.  And it's only gotten worse from there.

I already said Twilight Sparkle doesn't have the moral fortitude to decide indentured servitude is wrong.  She has never worked as a princess, and Celestia's speech about how she is deserving of the title ring emptier and emptier with each season.

Applejack is painfully stupid and stubborn.  She's supposed to be this idealized rural character, but she comes off as boring at best and patronizing at worst.

How Rarity is a successful mare of business is beyond me.  Kids looking to get into the field of fashion or any kind of business should avoid the moves Rarity makes at all costs.

Then there is the relationship.  As I had said, everyone has to be pro-Mane 6.  They can't have any friends who don't also like the others.  And it's always the other character's fault and never the Mane 6.  They must be converted (like Discord and Trixie) or cast out.  They're an incredibly insulated clique that rarely welcomes others.  Their friendship also seems to trump all other ambitions and responsibilities.

That is what is unhealthy about them.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Strawberry Swirl on January 01, 2018, 02:39:54 PM
It's been a bigger and bigger hit-and-miss as the seasons have gone on. I still enjoy the characters a lot but as far as the show itself goes I'm kind of over it. There have been later episodes I've enjoyed, even ones I've enjoyed a lot but I think now I'm pretty much ready to drop it.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Ponyfan on January 01, 2018, 04:00:12 PM
FIM has always been hit or miss for me. There are episodes I enjoy and can watch repeatedly without getting tired of them and some that I have either neither finished or don't want to rewatch. I have never been able to get through the episode with Rarity and the Diamond Dogs or the one where Daring Do and her adventures were established as being real.

I think Starlight is supposed to be the work in progress character. She is trying to learn but often makes mistakes. I don't like the way she went back to mind control spells so easily to get what she wanted (when she tried to do several friendship lessons at once) and I've always felt that the Mane 6 accepted her a little too quickly after she treid to destroy Equestria.  I like how she kept doubting herself in the Season 6 finale when the fate of Equestria was in her hooves.


I do like Thorax and feel he has shown a lot of character development.  Even after defeating Queen Chrysalis, he struggles with being a leader and how to handle those that don't agree with him.

I sill watch FIM if I find the episode premise interesting enough. If not I just watch something else instead.


Ponyfan
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on January 01, 2018, 05:19:26 PM
I agree, its a shame it doesn't hang together better in terms of ethics because that is kinda what it was meant to be about. Southpark is the greatest when it comes to ethics :-) but definitely not a family show.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: StarSwirl05 on January 02, 2018, 04:30:33 AM
TBH, I haven't really enjoyed the show since Season 2. I've mostly been watching the show to see what happens next. Lately, it's been one disappointment after another and I haven't found that many enjoyable eps.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Bekuno on January 02, 2018, 09:20:22 AM
I don't enjoy it like I used to, and I'm not entirely happy in the direction the show has gone, but I'm not going to stop watching it. I really only care about the two-part episodes and episodes that are important to the story (like the one about Applejack's parents). I watched all the season 8 leaked episodes, and some of them are important like the episode I just mentioned. I completely understand why many people are no longer interested in FIM.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taffeta on January 02, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
Quote from: Taffeta
I wonder if Starlight Glimmer was introduced to try and change that a bit, but it didn't work? I haven't seen any episodes with her in so I can't be sure...

As someone who has seen most of the episodes and is biased towards Starlight: Starlight is a reformed antagonist who in my opinion works in favor of the show.

From everything that people say about her role in the show on here, it sounds like she was an attempt to bring some of the Sunset Shimmer element into FIM, with a reformed protagonist who could be seen 'learning' about friendship.

@Al - if Sunset and SciTwi were that repetitive and predictable, I wouldn't watch EQG. The problem EQG does have is that the actual remainder of mane six don't change much at all over the course of the stories. Just, because they're trying to help first SUnset and then SciTwi, they become relevant to that cause. EQG itself is very predictable and repetitive. It's only the character nuances driving Sunset and SciTwi that make it enjoyable for me...the student becomes the teacher, but Sunset is never Twilight, and SciTwi is never Fluttershy.

I can't comment on the others since my knowledge of FIM is so limited.

The discussion about friendship and all or nothing also takes me back again to Jem and the friendship of Kimber and Stormer. It appears in one episode, and is never referenced again, but there's an active difference in these characters after that happens compared with before. That's both in terms of how they act in their respective bands and how others interact with them. So even though it's not constantly thrown in the faces of the audience, it still matters. I don't know if FIM has done that. I feel that EQG has done that, because there's a past and a future involved in the present of the stories of Sunset and SciTwi. I think Pinkie and co are largely irrelevant, and so are most of the other supporting characters. But because Sunset and SciTwi change each episode we see them (and now in the Canterlot High, Starlight Glimmer has also appeared), there's some kind of continuity that suggests cause and effect...action and consequence. Sunset is still feared at Canterlot High in Rainbow Rocks, and Adagio and company try to play on that fact. It hasn't all been forgotten, either by Sunset or the others around her. Consequently Sunset ultimately uses that experience to help counsel SciTwi. Sunset isn't like Twilight because Twilight has no such negative experience to compare. Sunset has failed, has done bad things, and has been hated for it. Because of that, she can help SciTwi. Twilight herself would not be able to do that.

And even though the EQG now have special powers, they still don't really know how to use them properly, which is also a learning curve.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Dragonflitter on January 02, 2018, 12:06:43 PM
I am still enjoying the show as much as I did when it started. In fact, I think the last two seasons are some of the strongest episodes of the series. I don't think every ep is great, of course, but I like where they're going with the overarching storyline.

When it was over, I thought to myself "We'd never get that kind of nuance from Friendship is Magic.  No one is ever allowed to be friends with anyone who isn't pro-Mane 6 and those that aren't converted must be ridden out of town on a rail."

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

There's also the lesson where Trixie spends the day ticking Starlight off, and she holds it all in until her magic explodes. At what point do you put up with your friends' little annoyances and let it go by without saying anything, and where do you draw the line and bring it up with them? The lessons about friendship in this show are not all rainbows and sparkles and everything is perfectly fine by the end of the episode. A lot of the morals of this show actually are complex and nuanced, and tackle real-life situations that even I, as an adult introvert, find thought-provoking.

Yes, for every complex and interesting ep there's a bland "let's all be friends and solve this problem in a contrived way!" episode in the lineup as well, or a stupid action or parody ep that doesn't require any thought to follow. But that doesn't mean the show is never complex, or that they aren't trying. It just means, that with over 150 episodes at this point, not all themes and morals are going to speak to every viewer.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jorgito93 on January 02, 2018, 04:19:23 PM

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

I totally agree, i'd say it does it even better because Teddy is not here (seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).The message is good in both episodes, but the context makes it work better for me in FiM
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Sunset on January 02, 2018, 05:42:02 PM
I enjoy FiM  for what it is, a cute cartoon about ponies.  I've never been a huge fan who gets super fired up when it is good nor the kind who gets uptight about its flaws.  I watch every episode once and if I don't like it I shrug and move on.

I totally agree with dragonflitter about the comparative lengths of the two shows.  FiM has had 7 seasons to make plenty of mistakes and triumphs.  If "Friends" or "Tails" had lasted that long wouldn't they have the same number of mistakes and triumphs?   I feel this way whether someone is comparing them either negatively or not.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: StarSwirl05 on January 02, 2018, 06:19:37 PM

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

I totally agree, i'd say it does it even better because Teddy is not here (seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).The message is good in both episodes, but the context makes it work better for me in FiM
Tales did handle the situation of more ponies than tickets better than FiM though.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 02, 2018, 06:45:31 PM
Tales also didn't need to bring in a new character to serve as the conflicted friend.  Starlight seems to be a crutch to do things they can't do with the Mane 6.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Sunset on January 02, 2018, 07:58:50 PM
Tales also didn't need to bring in a new character to serve as the conflicted friend.  Starlight seems to be a crutch to do things they can't do with the Mane 6.

Again, I just don't get this comparison.  Are you comparing the Tales episode with the Ticketmaster?  Then why bring Starlight up?  Starlight doesn't appear until the 6th season.  Who says that Tales wouldn't be in the same position as FiM if it had made it to 6 seasons?

I just doen't think it's fair to take a show that is past the point when the vast majority of shows (from cartoon to network drama) are struggling with being stagnant and comparing it to a show that only lasted 1 season?

I find it equally unfair as those putting down Tales or MLP N Friends without considering the 30 year changes in technology, culture, and artistic taste.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 03, 2018, 02:37:52 AM
I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jorgito93 on January 03, 2018, 04:35:17 AM
I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.
If you want to compare both, I don't think FIM in its 7 seasons and a movie had a worse morale than Tales in Shop Talk, and that was in its only season . Both have good aspects and bad ones.

I agree about Ticket Master though.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Sunset on January 03, 2018, 06:35:57 AM
I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.

Well, since you replied right after the person talking about the Ticketmaster I assumed that you meant the "conflicted friend" in reference to that.

I guess I mostly disagree with phrases like "Tales never had to do that."  Maybe Tales didn't do "that" in a very specific situation that is similar to a FiM situation.  But phrases like "never" and "always" seems to me to be putting the two on the same footing in regards to length.  I just feel that it is only natural that FIM in its 5th, 6th, and 7th seasons are obviously going to have to do things that Tales never had to do cause it didn't make it past the first season. 

And a side note,  I am not implying that one is any better than the other cause of length.  I am perfectly aware that there are so many circumstance that contributed to their comparative success that has nothing to do with how "good" either one is/was.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Deep Purple Crystal on January 03, 2018, 10:43:45 AM
(seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).


To be fair though, Teddy's teddy bear wasn't brought up that often. FiM has technically reformed more villains than Tales, although FiM has approximately seven times the number of episodes Tales was given (technically fourteen times if you consider that one FiM episode is the runtime equivalent of two Tales episodes).
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Deep Purple Crystal on January 03, 2018, 10:46:18 AM

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

I totally agree, i'd say it does it even better because Teddy is not here (seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).The message is good in both episodes, but the context makes it work better for me in FiM

It wasn't only the teddy bear though. 'Stand By Me' depicts Teddy as being rude/selfish, but also depicts him as still bearing some form of morality (he does wrong but visibly repents it afterwards) and legitimately caring for Sweetheart (although Tales did fumble with Teddy in other episodes, most notably 'Blue Ribbon Blues').

As for the comparison between 'Happy Birthday Sweetheart' and 'No Second Prances', I feel both are on about an equal level. HBS is much more grounded and earnest about its message, and I appreciate that (not to mention that, as Al said, the episode had the benefit of numerous past episodes establishing the conflict between Teddy and the Tales girls), but it also treats Teddy as a Karma Houdini and simultaneously expects us to sympathize with him despite his despicable actions within the episode not providing the audience with enough reason/proof to sympathize with him or understand why exactly Sweetheart cares about him, which confused the episode thematically. 'No Second Prances' was technically better (as in the message and plot were more solid and Trixie was depicted more effectively as a flawed but sympathetic character given more chemistry with Starlight Glimmer than with Teddy/his actions/interactions with Sweetheart in HBS, but that could more likely be chalked up to episode runtime differences), but it felt way too over-the-top, which handicapped the message in a different way (not to mention Twilight experiencing character regression to shoehorn conflict into the episode and some out-of-place wacky dialogue which jarred with the melodramatic climax). Cutting aside my long-standing Tales subjectivity (HBS is actually one of the show's weaker episodes), both sides definitely have a point. 

Interestingly, Taffeta has actually brought up a great point in regards to FiM 'trying too hard to be funny'. It seems to be more frequent in recent seasons, where an episode that initially pushes itself as comedic will suddenly turn around and deliver an over-the-top dramatic climax which ultimately undercuts both the tone and the moral. Earlier seasons were technically guilty of this to an extent as well (particularly the first half of season 1, when the show was still attempting to discover its footing), but the comedy was typically less forced and more consistent with the episode's tone - it was better integrated and less 'abrasive' essentially.

Also, what is it with the continuing insistence of the FiM writers on shoving more new characters into episodes for the sake of preventing the main cast from becoming moral amnesiacs? It tends to slice apart an episode's focus as it alternates between focus on newer/older characters, leading to both sects being stunted growth-wise. It feels more akin to a desperate attempt to continue the show and avoid considering how the main cast should move forward instead of a creative decision they legitimately desired to explore in earnest, and it cheapens the tone of seasons 6-7 to a surprising extent.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Taffeta on January 03, 2018, 01:19:21 PM
A little off topic but it just struck me that this is probably one of the only places where a detailed discussion comparing tales and FIM can even occur, because of members generally having indepth knowledge of both.

The weakness in the comparison is that tales is one series of G1 animation, not all we have to work with. FIM is one continuous work but I think nobody would argue against the statement that it is essentially the animated canon for the toyline, from episode 1 to the current point. This is the same whether you like it or you don't. It's still one entity.

G1 animation is much more complex and bitty, and to compare FIM themes only to Tales is to leave out stuff from the earlier seasons. I am not a huge fan of G1 animation, but it seems inappropriate to talk about themes of friendship and how they're represented by omitting half of the existing episodes.

From my perspective, the pony comic managed to get across a lot of these nuances and messages and ideas quite effectively over a period of about eight years. That includes the tales ponies albeit there were slight differences in their characterisation. The thing that the comic had which the FIM series doesn't (and which G1 animation also has) is the constant change and update of the cast. The comic and the G1 series both were there to sell toys, whereas FIM has become rooted to the mane six and therefore they never move away from those characters as toys. Subsequently, to sell the toys, they keep FIM rooted to those characters. And yes, characters can only develop so far, but if it is going to go on for this many seasons, then it's the fault of the people creating the series not to branch it out further beyond just those six.

It's fine to say that FIM has now covered so many episodes it is hard to keep it fresh and that Tales didn't have that problem, but if the fundamental problem is a concept idea trapped around six characters that don't really evolve over the long term into anything new, then of course there are problems. FIM has created its own issues by choosing to only focus on the stories of a key few characters for several years. This thought process also saves Tales because it was such a short run and that never happened.

I think Melody was more annoying than Teddy, incidentally. And Patch was the most annoying of them all.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 03, 2018, 02:29:36 PM
Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jorgito93 on January 03, 2018, 02:34:37 PM
Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.
What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Al-1701 on January 03, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.
What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head
One Bad Apple.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Jorgito93 on January 03, 2018, 02:56:47 PM
Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.
What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head
One Bad Apple.
Ah yes,i see what you mean.Still wonder if it's worse than "blackmailing is the solution" in Tales but it's clearly not the best message to send.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: Cadence on January 08, 2018, 12:35:56 AM
I used to skip the "filler" episodes but now I like playing FiM in the background and have grown to love the characters. I don't enjoy all of the episodes (ie. the CMC-centered ones) but some of them have surprising charms to them so I'll watch every episode. That said, I must admit I think it's high time for the series to end - everyone learns the same lessons and even Starlight Glimmer has learned how to be a good friend. Good series must end to stay legendary.
Title: Re: Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?
Post by: MJNSEIFER on January 08, 2018, 08:18:26 AM
Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.   
This is actually one of the main issues I have with the season four-onwards episodes; it tries too hard, but not only that, it tries to hard on things that it was actually already good at when it didn't try too hard.

Take the humor for example, in season one and season two, the humor was definitely there, but it was done in a natural way, like it fitted in with what was going on, and was usually just a simple comedy moment that slotted into the episode and just "flowed".  In the later seasons it seems really forced in, like they really want us to know it's funny, rather than just letting it flow into the storyline naturally, and are basically just throwing in what sounds funny to them at the moment rather than caring if it fits in with the character or the storyline.

Same with most of the other things; it was already cool, it already knew how to be dramatic, and how to be clever (it actually feels like it has less depth now, to me personally).  The thing is, regardless of whether it deserves the title of "Best Show Ever" or not, the fact that people thought it was that, showed that they were doing things right, so why they felt that they needed to try harder to do what they were just naturally doing, is beyond me - it's like being told you're a good singer, and then deciding that you can sound better by shouting.

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This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.
"One Bad Apple" gets the short end of the stick in my opinion; I get that it can be interpreted as "I can get away with bullying, if I say that I was bullied", but I can tell that wasn't the intention (and I think by having Applejack reveal it and not Babs Seed, they should have avoided this take away).  I personally think it was good to show that sometimes bullying does come from something, rather than just wanting to be jerk, so I was actually positive about the episode, really.
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