Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?

[Leave a Whisper]

I understand being upset, but Amazon has already removed your photo Panda. I really would advise you to retract that C&D letter, because :

1) These ponies while beautifully made by you, and with no assurance that they ever would have been Officially released in the future are not your designs or Intellectual Property.

2) Hasbro is a big, rich company. They have well-paid lawyers who can out-muscle and out-maneuver you legally. I don't think anyone here wants to see you get hit like that.

3) At best, they could simply choose to deny your request.  At worst, Hasbro themselves could come down not just on your head, but on the heads of any customizer who has ever made and sold an Official Pony that they can get their hands on. As well as Starlight Studios and HQG1C for manufacturing official moulds of ponies, dragons, wings, and accessories. This has farther possible consequences then you might think.

[Taffeta]

Hasbro have let people do customs of MLPs using MLP designs and moulds for years.

They know it happens, but they haven't stepped in and stopped people selling them or making them -yet.

Something like this could very easily change their mind. We're not talking about a line long since dead, but something about to come out, where sales could theoretically be impacted. Especially if people are asking for people to boycott 'in solidarity'. That's a direct conflict of commercial interest which Hasbro or BF may take notice of - hopefully not.

@LAW, I thought of that, too. If Hasbro got actively involved in this it would have consequences for a lot of customisers. HQG1C are at the forefront of that.

If it were an original character or a sculpted mould that had been copied, I'd feel differently. But there is literally nothing in these ponies that isn't copyrighted to Hasbro.

And I also believe the celestial ponies have been reinterpreted by so many ponypeople over the years that they really don't belong to one of us. BF are just the latest to interpret them.

I am 100% behind getting the images removed however. Whatever I think about the copyright/designs of these, taking the pictures and using them was not on.

Just better to pull back on the design issue.

[Carrehz]

It really does worry me that this might have far-reaching repercussions. Hasbro are honestly VERY easygoing and generous with us (I don't think "generous" is quite the word I want, but I can't think of a better one x_x) when it comes to customs. I mean, they have to know about HQG1C by now. The only time they've EVER stepped in is when things start affecting them. Like that G4 fighting game that got shut down, I think the consensus there was that that was getting too "big" for a fangame? And I believe back in the day they asked Aikarin (I think?) to take down some of their custom images because they were toeing the line too much - IIRC they didn't even have a problem with the customs in general, they just didn't like the ones that were in custom packaging, since that was deemed too "close" to Hasbro's own product.

They've always been happy to let our customs and other fanprojects coexist with their official stuff... I really hope that doesn't change. This just feels like poking the hornets' nest IMO :s The indirect call for a boycott in particular stood out to me. These are Hasbro's designs!!

And just to reiterate, I am and always have been wholeheartedly against the use of PB's photos, that's just not on at all. But everything else, sorry, I just see more harm than good coming out of all of this.

[DreamvalleyMLP]

It really does worry me that this might have far-reaching repercussions. Hasbro are honestly VERY easygoing and generous with us (I don't think "generous" is quite the word I want, but I can't think of a better one x_x) when it comes to customs. I mean, they have to know about HQG1C by now. The only time they've EVER stepped in is when things start affecting them. Like that G4 fighting game that got shut down, I think the consensus there was that that was getting too "big" for a fangame? And I believe back in the day they asked Aikarin (I think?) to take down some of their custom images because they were toeing the line too much - IIRC they didn't even have a problem with the customs in general, they just didn't like the ones that were in custom packaging, since that was deemed too "close" to Hasbro's own product.

They've always been happy to let our customs and other fanprojects coexist with their official stuff... I really hope that doesn't change. This just feels like poking the hornets' nest IMO :s The indirect call for a boycott in particular stood out to me. These are Hasbro's designs!!

And just to reiterate, I am and always have been wholeheartedly against the use of PB's photos, that's just not on at all. But everything else, sorry, I just see more harm than good coming out of all of this.

I don't see this having far-reaching consequences for the community.

The letter wasn't written by a lawyer's office, that's one thing. The content is a little bit all over the place; which diminishes the possible impact on the receiver even more. And Hasbro does benefit indirectly from small artists' work because it keeps their brand name out there. If the entire community were to rally behind pandabear and boycot the sales, that could make a difference.

I believe HQG1C has express permission from Hasbro? Please do correct me if I'm getting this wrong.
And the take-down of the G4 fighting game was - if I remember correctly - because the label of "fighting is magic" didn't gell with their image for the brand.

I do see Hasbro's legal team sending a C&D to pandabear's customizing business, instigated by her trying to lay claim to someone else's IP.

[Carrehz]

I'm not aware of HQG1C having permission from Hasbro - I was under the impression they didn't have it - but I could be wrong. I admit I've heard multiple things about why they shut down Fighting is Magic. I think it might've been a combo of things; I've seen lots of things that go against MLP's "image", but none that were getting quite as much media (etc) attention as the fighting game. I know in the past when people have talked about maybe promoting HQG1C more and such, there's been a lot of people on here saying we probably don't want to draw too much attention to it because of that.

[LadyMoondancer]

Carrehz is right, HQG1C definitely do not have Hasbro's permission.  It's like with the Third Party "Transformers" companies who make a robot named "Supernova Yell", but it's clearly Starscream. But those at least make their own molds, HQG1C uses Hasbro molds which would probably put them even more at risk.

And yeah, my main concern would be that this could boomerang back on HQG1C, which relies on Hasbro ignoring them.  My anxiety is that Hasbro will decide "Well, the best defense (of our IP) is a good offense."

On a semi-related(?) note, Hasbro / Wizards of the Coast recently sent the Pinkertons (private investigators) after a Youtuber who got ahold of a Magic: The Gathering set before their official release date and unboxed them in a video.  I mean it got them bad press, but it shows the lengths they're willing to go to when they decide something is harming their brand.

[DreamvalleyMLP]

Really? That's interesting. I was under the impression they did because of how long it's been going, not to mention the amount of time (and money?) it must have cost to get it up and running.
Maybe Hasbro didn't care back in the day, but now that G1 is back it could be a risky business, yes.

[Carrehz]

HQG1C have always been careful with how they go about things for exactly that reason... I remember when they first started, people asked if they'd do the Celestials and they specifically said they would NOT, because they didn't want to get in trouble for using those designs OR take away from the sales if Basic Fun did do them.

[pinkkittywinks]

My understanding the the C&D letter written by Panda to BF is the unauthorised use of her photographs on Amazon. This is summed up at the end of the letter written by Panda under "Artists Expectations". The likeness of two of Panda's customs to the two made by BF is a "furthermore", rather than the main focus of her letter, which is the unauthorised use of her photographs.

Love pkw xxx

[brightberry]

I love Basic Fun's Celestial Ponies and plan to buy doubles if I can. 

My Little Pony, Celestial Ponies are all copyrighted by Hasbro and no one but Hasbro and Basic Fun have the rights to produce products to sell from the brand.  I also don't think that the Amazon photos were meant for general public viewing.  Just because we found a "workaround" to get a sneak preview, doesn't mean those images weren't under a review process already.  Amazon could do a better job in this regard.   I'm glad they did take down those images, though and I hope it resolves the issue. 

[Taffeta]

My understanding the the C&D letter written by Panda to BF is the unauthorised use of her photographs on Amazon. This is summed up at the end of the letter written by Panda under "Artists Expectations". The likeness of two of Panda's customs to the two made by BF is a "furthermore", rather than the main focus of her letter, which is the unauthorised use of her photographs.

Love pkw xxx

Yeah, but it was unwise to include it in the letter.

And she has directly accused them of stealing in her IG post and in this thread - which gives broader context to the letter, and is accessible to literally anyone who might look for it.

[Gizmo]

When the toy fair pictures were first revealed it was Panda's interpretation that came to my mind, the fact her actual customs and photos were then used as stock images over multiple online stores made it all the more obvious. Technicalities aside, I don't think it's ok to use her photographs in any capacity without her permission and I'm glad she's done something about it 👏

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.

[brightberry]

When the toy fair pictures were first revealed it was Panda's interpretation that came to my mind, the fact her actual customs and photos were then used as stock images over multiple online stores made it all the more obvious. Technicalities aside, I don't think it's ok to use her photographs in any capacity without her permission and I'm glad she's done something about it 👏

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.

Honestly, I think the blue pony in that pose looks a lot like the original artwork and it makes sense if more than one thought of it that way because there aren't a lot of ways to interpret it:  http://mylittlewiki.org/w/images/4/41/Fairy-bright-ponies.jpg

The same with the dark pink pony in the Posey pose.  Which earth pony pose has Basic Fun made that comes closest to it? 


We can't act like we're entitled to Hasbro's brand just because it inspires us. Otherwise, they would have every reason to start cracking down on customizers just in case they get accused of copying someone. 

[Taffeta]

What Brightberry said.

It made me think about a discussion in the Jem context. When Hasbro made the Starlight Girl dolls, those dolls weren't actually Hasbro's original concepts. They were I think Christy Marx's as support characters, and I know Craig was another one. But Hasbro made them because Hasbro owned Jem's copyright, and IT made Craig because again, the overall copyright was still theirs. I remember it being discussed on the Jem list, but I also remember Christy explaining how they made them but that they didn't ask her or need to ask her for permission because even though she created them, they held the overall copyright - and still do.

[baby_gusty]

I have to say I'm chocked how basic fun (and amazon) has dealt with this, so poorly and I fully understand Panda's frustration and disappointment. I understand it's hasbro's copyright aetc but there's just too much of all this to make it feel ok.