The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Off Topic => Topic started by: WingsOfMasquerade on November 22, 2017, 04:01:26 PM
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Not real sure if this is for OT or Rants but it's more of a 'fact' instead of a rant so...gonna try it.
Isn't the MLPArena kind of in danger like...right now?
The whole Net Neutrality vote thing is trying to come up on Black Friday or Christmas so that people don't notice it and they just take away NN.
If NN gets taken away, all the providers like ATT, Comcast, Verizon whoever is in your area will switch how they bill to "Packages" like how cable TV does, as well as charging individual websites (like here) a monthly fee to get seen by anyone with that service. If your "Package" includes youtube, facebook, twitter, that's all you can be allowed to see online. But if the Mlparena isn't on the package list? No one could look here again. Plus, I'm sure whoever pays the hosting for this doesn't want to give 3 or 4 or 5 companies an additional 50 bucks a month just to let people post here & look.
Look what already happened to Portugal
https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/923701871092441088
The MLPArena is not on that list of packages.
Look at Business Insider
http://www.businessinsider.com/net-neutrality-portugal-how-american-internet-could-look-fcc-2017-11
I'm not making this up, if this net neutrality fails, it's going to block everyone from coming here.
But apparently not right away...it took Portugal like I think 6 months to get to that point after they lost it. So basically they 'trick' everyone by saying 'oh it will be the same' until the law passes and then there's nothing anybody can do because they can't meet up on any website to talk about it because they're all blocked or cost too much money and nobody can pay it.
The only thing it seems like an average person can do is call Congress and say a speech.
If you write them, they have a man who says "this is a robot, it is a fake letter" & everyone believes him. I have....no idea how that works? But calls with people's real voices they somehow can't deny that it is real.
This button
https://www.battleforthenet.com/
lets you call & gives you a speech to say. I already pressed it (I'm nervous on the phone...I don't like it...but if I have a speech already I can do it and I just when "hello the entire speech" as soon as someone picked up I'm not sure if that's how it should have been but)
Signing this
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/do-not-repeal-net-neutrality
Will bother them
If you want to use a text (write your own, it has to be unique)
A robot will help you
https://resistbot.io/
and if you write emails that are unique you can beg these folks
Mignon Clyburn - [email protected]
Michael O'Rielly - Mike.O'[email protected]
Brendan Carr - [email protected]
Jessica Rosenworcel - [email protected]
because if even 1 of them says 'no' the stupid plan will fail and we all get to keep looking at the internet.
This rabbit hole of evil goes WAY WAY WAY deeper than anything I can type into here.
Look it all up and see how scary it is because everything's on the chopping block including ebay, youtube, any video game you might like, and even Amazon. (They want to charge Amazon 4 million dollars per month, per ISP, or they'll block it---that's going to raise all the prices of everything, plus, then, they'll ask you to pay an additional 5 dollars a month just to be allowed to shop at amazon.) Anybody who sells at Etsy or Ecrater or has a small biz will also get blocked if this passes. DeviantArt will get the axe because it won't be able to afford to pay the ISPS, then the deviants wont be able to pay the whatever/month fee to access the site. It's like cable TV where you pay per package/channel & if the MLPArena channel isn't there, well you'll never go again.
I had no idea it was this bad.
I love it here! I don't want this Ajit Pai to ban me.
If you can think of anything else to help, please put it here and if you do a thing from the list: thank you.
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I'm very confused. Babyfied version please tell me how do I vote against this?
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I'm very confused. Babyfied version please tell me how do I vote against this?
Corporations will privately own our internet service and dictate how or what we have access to, and charge consumers how they see fit. This is similar to pay TV, which can be a real pain if you don't want everything in you tv bundle. Not a good prospect.
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Thank you for the easy way to contact reps. I am a nervous wreck on the phone so the resistbot is a nice text alternative.
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I'm honestly so gutted. I know Australia isnt directly in the path for this chaos, but we often follow suit when and if America makes big changes. I found a good image that describes it a bit better:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Well crap. Is there any way to save the Arena (all the posts, member info, PMs, etc) so we can at least have the great information and discussions on here? We might as well start brainstorming things we can do. Maybe we could make an app? :cry:
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Well crap. Is there any way to save the Arena (all the posts, member info, PMs, etc) so we can at least have the great information and discussions on here? We might as well start brainstorming things we can do. Maybe we could make an app? :cry:
I cant imagine they would block off all forums because providers still know how far people travel on the net and how important socialisation is. There would probably end up being an umbrella that includes forums and boards which mlparena would fall under. If they cut off all non mainstream websites, people would go insane. Although an app in general seems awesome!
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Well crap. Is there any way to save the Arena (all the posts, member info, PMs, etc) so we can at least have the great information and discussions on here? We might as well start brainstorming things we can do. Maybe we could make an app? :cry:
Wouldn't apps be restricted too?
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Well crap. Is there any way to save the Arena (all the posts, member info, PMs, etc) so we can at least have the great information and discussions on here? We might as well start brainstorming things we can do. Maybe we could make an app? :cry:
I cant imagine they would block off all forums because providers still know how far people travel on the net and how important socialisation is. There would probably end up being an umbrella that includes forums and boards which mlparena would fall under. If they cut off all non mainstream websites, people would go insane. Although an app in general seems awesome!
Ah, ok. Thanks! But there is still the issue of people not being able to access the Arena because their plan doesn't cover it :( Not as bad as no access at all though.
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This is sad! :(
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I don't think they would do that. You try to do that to America, and congress would be buried in angry mail during an election year already looking bad for the ruling party. What is more likely is companies screwing each other. Like Google will make Youtube almost impossible to use on anything but Chrome. Regardless, an internet without Net Neutrality will be as far from consumer friendly as possible.
You know, why have we allowed vultures to get their talons on all our resources and services?
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For the last few months, people are getting responses from their congressman that stated to a harsh degree, "The FCC knows what you want and need."
https://www.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/6or3rp/jim_bridenstien_net_neutrality_response/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/6or3rp/jim_bridenstien_net_neutrality_response/)
Over the last twenty years, consumers have demanded, and the private sector has built, a free and open Internet, yet President Obama and the FCC set out to impose unnecessary constraints. FCC reclassification will result in a tightly controlled, highly regulated, and readily taxable Internet. As conceived by the Obama Administration, Net Neutrality is simply a solution in search of a problem, not a way to make the Internet "better" for us all.
Sure. Blame Obama that he kept big businesses from taking over our networks, severing our ties with friends and family and revoking our right to be connected with the world. Yeah. Obama TOTALLY is to blame for protecting the public's interest :brow:
It's become a partisan issue, and once NN is pulled the only ones it will benefit are those we are handing our hard-earned dollars to.
Yes, I filled out petitions and things :3
And as a blanketing response:
If these places have it their way, to have their website on a "plan" would probably mean that MLPA would have to pay the big companies to be part of those plans. That would mean that they will have to rely on member donations, or otherwise become pay-to-use so those fees can be paid. Likely, many smaller websites would kerpoof. It would be on the consumer to pay for the use of the site two-fold.
Yay.
//rant
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Thank you for the links.
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IS the goal censorship or is someone trying to make more money?
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To Saphy:
The way to 'vote' against it is by calling your reps with the button here
https://www.battleforthenet.com/
Get every. single. person. you. know. To use that button and call. It's sheer volumes of people calling that are going to make a difference. The problem is that everyone is always like "well......I'm just a drop in a bucket--it won't help if I do it...." yes and every raindrop participates in the flood, so it actually does add up.
The problem is that there's NO voting! Nobody is being allowed to 'vote' on this in the way a dictator just does things. Dictator name Ajit Pai That's why it's so infuriating. But to stop it you have to call, it has to be a voice or the same dictator will say "a robot did that" and throw out your effort. If you want more votes, get more people to do it. Get your friends/family to text and call too. It's seriously like 5 minutes or less.
Al-1701
The problem here is that nobody's burying congress in anything angry up until now, the last hour of the battle.
And if they take away NN, there won't be a way left to contact congress. What it is, is old people & people who think that "Facebook is the internet", so they basically don't know & don't care about anything. When will they care? When they have to pay like that graphic from Witch up there...and at that point there's no going back unless Elon Musk launches his satellite internet. It's like, they don't think anything CAN happen to the internet because it's always been here. They'll only wake up when it's too late and it's been taken away.
Like Sweet Daes said: You'd have to pay twice to use the arena. Arena pays to exist 4 times out each month to each provider, (Comcast, ATT, Verizon, RR) then you pay your provider once a month to see it. And it's not going to be cheap fees either, like maybe 200/month to each of the big providers just to not get blocked/banned. "If you don't like it just close your website you weren't a success anyway unless you were Amazon we don't want you".
And yes they will block apps.
The Portugal thing up there (on the article) also goes into how their phone plans work. You use up VERY VERY high data fees if you dare use an app or go to a website that's not in your plan. Phones are actually going to strangle harder and faster than ISPs if NN fails because they're already used to strangling & everyone is conditioned to just accept strangling and data caps. I mean, the USA was paying PER TEXT on many plans for the longest time. You can still youtube up those commercials. "WOW Its such a bargain I get 200 texts per month for only 59.99! Thanks mom!" and "Unlimited up to 1 gig, then you pay 20.00 per megabyte what a deal!" So you can imagine new plans like "I get 20 google searches per month for only 20.00! Isn't that great?"
To Tikibirds:
It's both censorship and money.
Money in this case is first, Pai is a Verizon lawyer (a fox in charge of the hen house) and he's been paid off, as have all congress people who want to kill NN. Comcast & them have handed over free money in the millions to make this happen because they believe shutting down most of the web and collecting double dipping fees from anyone who hangs on is the best way to a huge money.
Censorship is their added bonus funtime because if anyone complains about it (if NN fails) like posting a youtube video that Comcast doesn't like, Comcast can simply block youtube for all its customers until YT takes down videos that don't agree with Comcast. ISPs will also be able to make sites they don't like to not load at all, or to slow them or put error pages. So if you like........."The Democrats" and Verizon doesn't, well then all Democrats sites suddenly don't work very well for you! Oh how frustrating! *That's just something general. It could be the same for Republicans or if you wanted a Synagogue's phone number and they don't like Jewish stuff.......well then that's just not going to load any more.
*If you're worried about censorship try to block the Sinclair merger. Sinclair forces news channels (local, whatever) to run their own stories instead of whatever the station would have run. Also I think Sinclair media's properties aren't allowed to criticize Trump or anything he does. (For example letting people kill elephants and legally bring the body parts into the USA to keep or sell as trophies---this used to be illegal, and if you want to speak out against it because you like elephants or something, you're not allowed to say on their channel "This is a bad idea" because it goes against Trump's wishes. That is censorship.
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People aren't burying congress because they aren't feeling the pain right now. If they repeal Net Neutrality, and the ISP's do this, then the anger will come out. And Congress is not safe from physical mail and phone calls. Also, next year being an already volatile election year, it would become a massive campaign issue that primary and general election opposition will use against the old/ignorant people currently in congress.
I know ISP's are going to try anything and everything to make a dishonest buck. However, in the United States, the more likely strategy is hurting each other. Again, Youtube will become almost unusable unless you're using Google Chrome or an Android device. Comcast will make it difficult to view ESPN's website so you have to use NBC's sports site. Netflix will become almost impossible because many service providers have interest in Hulu. It's still nothing good.
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Are they seriously trying ot do this again?
Im not amused. You cant own the internet, and its not just the US that uses it.
If by some miracle this passes, I don't see it lasting long. I see much exploding and burning.
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This is terrifying, but it has been a sitting duck for ages. Someone gave it away for free for the good of mankind. Like water and air. Corporations are trying to own clean water and air too. When it comes to natural resources, I think they will push ethical boundaries to see whether or not people will accept subjugation. In my view, once some humans have control of natural resources like this the rest of us will essentially be their slaves. Thank you for the links. I'm in the UK.
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i've signed and shared links wherei could
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To Al-1701
I wanted to write that...you are right. The big co's will fight each other and pick at each other if this bad plan goes through. They've actually already fought before, and this list demos what happened when they did. (It's simplified, but each incident can be looked up easily by it's date to get details) I didn't write it up, but it's a useful enough illustration for your point:
2005 - Madison River Communications (an ISP) was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.
2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers. (That's like napster/Utorrent, etc)
2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked on pc because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones.
2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except youtube. (edit: they actually sued the FCC over this)
2011-2013, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google Wallet because it competed with their bullS$%^. edit: this one happened literally months after the trio were busted collaborating with Google to block apps from the android marketplace
2012, Verizon was demanding google block tethering apps on android because it let owners avoid their $20 tethering fee. This was despite guaranteeing they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction. (edit: they were fined $1.25million over this)
2012, AT&T - tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.
2013, Verizon literally stated that the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers over other providers were the net neutrality rules in place.
So even with the rules, they're up to some dodgy stuff.
It's gonna go to FREAK OUT levels if Pai gets his way. It'll start with "Well, every page not in your plan takes 5 minutes to load because we're such nice guys we wouldn't block you don't worry", and then it'll go to "well, nobody but facebook, youtube, Target, Walmart, amazon, and instagram* can pay us so everything else is blocked because now you don't have a voice any more nobody can tell us we're wrong". That includes libraries who have no money already, and Wikipedia that's a nonprofit to begin with. They can cope with the "5 min page load & literal 56k modem dial up speeds" for a while but...what then?
*Can instagram actually pay?
I have no idea if it's profitable or not. Twitter isn't, despite it being in the news 24/7.
And what's Google going to do? They got billions thanks to their ads on searches, but if the internet's whittled down to like 12 websites there's no point in searching for anything? It's confusing.
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Not for nothing but what good would signng petitions do anyway? If certain people really wanted this implemented, why would they bother listening to a bunch of signatures? I'm not just not convinced this'd have a snowballs chance of passing. I mean, when has anything that was a major threat to the internet ever passed?
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This is always a scary issue. I have a feeling that if it goes through, changes would happen very slowly at first because they know that a public outcry would ruin it for them. They’ll pass it, then congress will point out that nothing happened and it was all unnecessary panic during the election. As time goes on, we’ll start to see very minor changes lead into bigger changes over a few years. By then, most of the public will see it as something they can’t do anything about.
It makes me upset as innovation will suffer, small websites like this one will suffer, small businesses will suffer and just being able to put up your own website for the fun of it for a few dollars a month will disappear.
There isn’t enough competition among the mega businesses to encourage real debate. It’s about money but censorship will be the result. Most people will end up having the same opinions because it’s the mass media’s opinion. And that, is truly horrifying.
The fact that it’s a ‘partison’ issue just makes it worse. It’s not a partison issue. Neither conservatives or liberals want this. We shouldn’t be divided on it.
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The internet is supposed to be free. It’s an interconnecting Network! You shouldn’t be able to own that. If they go through with this, I fully support riots in the streets over this. Nobody should have their internet chosen for them. You should be allowed to go where you please on it. If you ask me, trumps looking out for all his big business friends as usual, not caring about the public.
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And what's Google going to do? They got billions thanks to their ads on searches, but if the internet's whittled down to like 12 websites there's no point in searching for anything? It's confusing.
Can they save the day?
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To StarSwirl05
You are right about the petition during this administration. The whole Petition thing (gets over 500k sigs, white house or somebody official MUST respond) is unlikely to do anything. This administration loves ignoring things, petitions of all sorts included. Sure you can sign, but you're right it's unlikely to do much good. However...
The thing that CAN do the good is sending an actual email (in your own words--yes it's seen by BOTS but all they do is check for duplicate phrases/content and if they don't see dupes they do count it) to these people
Michael O’Reilly – Mike.O’[email protected]
Brendan Carr – [email protected]
And making the phone calls to senators with the button on the www.battleforthenet.com page.
It's the calls to the reps that are important mostly because they can't be fakes & anyone who is getting like....500 calls a day is going to start worrying about their prospect for re-election if they just ignore a volume like that.
It's similar to the Slime = Glue fad that's still on a bit.
You NEVER saw "Half Gallon Elmer's" glues before the fad. Now, OfficeMax/Depot and even Home Depot will have a little side-table set up saying "Make Fun Slime!" with all sorts of glue and materials. The stores started acquiring half gallon glues & making wacky slime tables because everyone was calling clamoring for slime for the kids since it was a fad. Calling works on stores cause they want money & it works on politicians who are up for re-election because they don't want to lose the job.
Brightberry:
You are also right. Probably. They WANT to be as insidious as possible over this. (Though I think Comcast was already publicly planning something evil) Whittle away the number of websites you can see slowly so everyone just gives up and says "Well Facebook is the internet now...so glad I can pay an extra 40 a month to see it, as well as my own email."
The scariest thing:
People aren't acting because they feel THEY won't make a difference
People aren't acting because they don't know how big the danger is
They're not acting because "nothing bad has happened yet"
That's why Artemesia Floc has a point also, that if Google combined forces with everyone else who already acted & who is acting today we could have something. Because you can't expect someone like Amazon to step up/step in since every other web based store shutting down would be their dream come true. But Google can't do it by themselves, because 'the voice of the people' has to be in there too...however since there's just so many mountains of people who don't know, people who don't care (old folks), and people who don't think they matter (they do!) every single person who
1 knows about it
2. Can spend like 10 minutes doing free things
has to do it at maximum level to make up for the other folks. If everyone just got 2 relatives to call the button and say a phrase, we'd be on more confident ground.
I don't want to say goodbye to this place.
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I've already seen news media pumping out garbage about this.
Mostly it's announcements regarding, "'anyone who is using bots, petitions, or any kind of scripted assistance or copy/paste', your opinion has been disqualified. We don't seem to see very many people actually concerned about this issue - there seem to just be dozens of troublesome bots distributing info, which means nothing."
So they are hearing our protests, defining them as Fake Protests, AND telling us that they are seeing our protests as Fake and letting us know they plan to ignore them. All my whats, I cannot even fathom how to argue with such idiocy.
Ah! The Almighty Dollar! Greed! The only way things get accomplished... *shakes my head*
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I have donated to the fight, called representatives, and spread the word.
I've heard that Pai wants to "test this proposition in an open and public process", but everyone including me takes that with a boulder of salt.
I do hope at the very least, if it passes, that the backlash will be too intense for them to take. I certainly hope they don't take the 'just wait it out' approach and expect us to eventually get used to it. :pout:
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I do hope at the very least, if it passes, that the backlash will be too intense for them to take. I certainly hope they don't take the 'just wait it out' approach and expect us to eventually get used to it. :pout:
That's probably very likely to happen if it passes given how many people use the internet. I'm not expecting it to stay in effect very long if that's true either.
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I tell you what! I don't know if this world can get any worst! The prices of things are getting higher every week! We are not getting a pay raise at work anymore! People are getting more mentally unstably and there is so much more killing. Its so sad and now the government wants to control us even more! :(
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Right. If this thing actually gets passed, grab your pitchforks ladies and gentlemen! We are fighting a war with warponies!
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I have a scythe if that helps?
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It's going to be nail biting tomorrow that's for sure. Yep,if this passes hopefully the back lash will be so huge it cannot be ignored. Causing a "oh crap what did we do voting "yes'". I've helped get the word out about ignoring this isn't an option...you need to call...
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It's not that MILLIONS haven't already spoken out.... it's that the Powers That Be are NOT listening to our voices!!! :(
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The vote is today. It makes me angry because this is clearly against what the public wants. The telecom industry doesn't like to advertise that it used gov't funding to build it's networks and its just so wrong that a taxpayer resource we paid for is being stolen from us.
The real problem is that this is not going to go away until it's put into law or the Supreme Court rules against them. The telecom industry is not going to give up, they have been relentless for over a decade.
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Cross your fingers.
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When is the vote? I slept in and I thought I'd missed it, am in Pacific standard time.
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I've just seen that they've repealed it 3:2 on party lines. How can 5 people make that kind of decision for millions of people! There's something about them ignoring 22million people protesting it by saying that so many were bots that it's not accurate! IDIOTS! I'm not in America but I find it very concerning for everyone there.
There are going to be legal challenges so lets just hope they succeed!
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The vote is today. It makes me angry because this is clearly against what the public wants. The telecom industry doesn't like to advertise that it used gov't funding to build it's networks and its just so wrong that a taxpayer resource we paid for is being stolen from us.
The real problem is that this is not going to go away until it's put into law or the Supreme Court rules against them. The telecom industry is not going to give up, they have been relentless for over a decade.
THIS VERY MUCH.
But alas... too bad... let's see what happens as they've made their decision 3:2 against NN ... :(
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*sigh* this is why we can't have nice things and that's putting it G rated. If other countries take a page from the States it might not bode well. On the other hand if folks here kick it up a notch with protests ect... they may think twice.
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I dont think its over yet. From what i have read on twitter they still have one more hurdle in their way so there is still hope.
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Uh no. That's not how voting works morons. :enraged: You don't just put out a vote and ignore the results because its not in your favor.
If you can't do it by the rules, then you have no business doing it all. The people clearly said NO. This is a democracy. Its not how we do things in THIS country.
Hopefully the courts and the people will overturn it based on that alone.
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I read (wish I could remember where) that there is legislation being created that would make Net Neutrality law instead of policy. Of course, in order for that to happen, Dems have to take back the House and Senate in 2018. But once it's law, it'll be much, MUCH harder for the ISPs to get their way while ignoring millions of dissenting voices.
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This is extremely heartbreaking and frustrating to say the least. I strongly urge everyone to not give up and show up to local protests and be supportive and continue to fight for Net Neutrality! Continue to contact your representatives and let your voices be heard!
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It just feels pointless to contact my representatives. It's like talking to a brick wall. Case and point, a friend posted on FB earlier that she tried to do that in my state and got an automated message back saying that the representative didn't care and would vote to repeal it anyway.
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Did it happen? I read in the news that net neutrality has been officially scrapped, but I don't see the internet freaking out yet. Anyway, net neutrality is apparently protected by Norwegian law, so I guess I won't be affected... directly :lookround:
When are we going to make international internet laws so stuff like this can't happen? This whole ordeal is so weird.
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People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already starting to roll in and several states are starting to make bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Given how blatant he's acting about ignoring the voters and individual state laws, hemay be giving himself enough rope to hang, as it where.
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The proposal passed on partisan lines. The Dems said no, the Republicans said yes. Now it goes to... wherever it goes to, with protesters flooding their representatives and legal challenges.
American internet won't change overnight, but it won't say free and open unless the representatives get really scared of the American people.
People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already started and several states are starting to work in bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Didn't the UN say that a free and open internet was a human right? Something along those lines?
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The proposal passed on partisan lines. The Dems said no, the Republicans said yes. Now it goes to... wherever it goes to, with protesters flooding their representatives and legal challenges.
American internet won't change overnight, but it won't say free and open unless the representatives get really scared of the American people.
People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already started and several states are starting to work in bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Didn't the UN say that a free and open internet was a human right? Something along those lines?
I don't know. I didn't hear about that. Given how many people depend on it as at least a partial income source, it may well be.
Given how many people use it for connections and entertainment, it more likely to be seen as a luxury like tv.
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Well I've read that if Congress can either get presidential support or 2/3 votes from the house and senate, then it can be overturned. TBH, can't say I'm surprised it didn't work out. The people that were trying to put it in were clearly not intending on listening. Of course, this doesn't mean that we lose the internet overnight. Things still have to be done to make it happen.
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The proposal passed on partisan lines. The Dems said no, the Republicans said yes. Now it goes to... wherever it goes to, with protesters flooding their representatives and legal challenges.
American internet won't change overnight, but it won't say free and open unless the representatives get really scared of the American people.
People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already started and several states are starting to work in bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Didn't the UN say that a free and open internet was a human right? Something along those lines?
I don't know. I didn't hear about that. Given how many people depend on it as at least a partial income source, it may well be.
Given how many people use it for connections and entertainment, it more likely to be seen as a luxury like tv.
The internet is far more than an entertainment service. It is also an information resource and colleges and researching for college papers relies heavily on it now.
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This year has been so incredibly embarrassing for the united states. This is one of the bigger disappointments that's happened though, the internet is so much more than just a novelty at this point. Restricting access just for financial gain is seriously messed up, although I can't help but feel there's a problem with censorship mixed in here as well.
The proposal passed on partisan lines. The Dems said no, the Republicans said yes. Now it goes to... wherever it goes to, with protesters flooding their representatives and legal challenges.
American internet won't change overnight, but it won't say free and open unless the representatives get really scared of the American people.
People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already started and several states are starting to work in bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Didn't the UN say that a free and open internet was a human right? Something along those lines?
I saw something about the UN declaring free and open internet as a human right too. Although I don't quite understand what that means I hope it factors into reversing this awful decision. I'm so incredibly frustrated with our government right now. I've been calling senators and congress about a number of issues that are important to me, including net neutrality, and clearly it means nothing to them. I really hope we start to see more protests and civil unrest. More direct action. It's clear our elected officials have no intention of listening to the american people anymore and we need more than passive agressive facebook posts and frustration at this point to change the way this country is being run. I really don't feel like I live in any kind of democracy at all anymore.
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The proposal passed on partisan lines. The Dems said no, the Republicans said yes. Now it goes to... wherever it goes to, with protesters flooding their representatives and legal challenges.
American internet won't change overnight, but it won't say free and open unless the representatives get really scared of the American people.
People are pretty upset Luxray. Death threats are already started and several states are starting to work in bills that protect net neutrality in individual states. Jerkface Pai doesn't seem to realize that unless its a violation of human rights, states don't have to fall in line.
Didn't the UN say that a free and open internet was a human right? Something along those lines?
I don't know. I didn't hear about that. Given how many people depend on it as at least a partial income source, it may well be.
Given how many people use it for connections and entertainment, it more likely to be seen as a luxury like tv.
The internet is far more than an entertainment service. It is also an information resource and colleges and researching for college papers relies heavily on it now.
You didn't read my whole post.
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As of now I suppose I'm confused as to whether I should panic or not. Lots of the posts I've been seeing about NN have been rather grim in tone, but some are speaking out about doing that because it's actually not that bad? VERY confusing. So I guess I'll just continue to panic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is a democracy. Its not how we do things in THIS country.
Sentiment is nice but I'm going to have to disagree. We live in an oligarchy now. Just look at how the president was elected! Clearly the higher-ups really do not care what everybody else has to say and have been disregarding all opinions but their own since this year started. Honestly, a world where we have to periodically ring up our senators and representatives to beg for things we need to survive or things that we'd struggle without is NOT what I'd call a democracy.
Although such a viewpoint is not surprising, I did recently read a piece that showed that those born into and brought up in a family that is unreasonably rich tend to exhibit less compassion in general just by nature. They grow up being taught such drastically different ideals from the rest of the world, basically "it's all about me" and everybody else can suck it.
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I just read that net neutrality lost.. this is nuts. Cue legal battles. I’m going to admit, this makes me nervous.
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the people saying "it's not that bad" are the ones that have less to lose by it and more to profit from it ... granted, things won't change overnight, but you bet your sweet bippy ISPs have been working on things behind the scenes for when it kicks in ...
BUT as of right now ... yes the FCC voted to end it but it still has to go through congress ... but the scary thing is that a lot of congress people are in the pockets of ISP's and receive a LOT of money from them ... the fight continues ... call/write/email your congress people make your voice heard ...
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As of now I suppose I'm confused as to whether I should panic or not. Lots of the posts I've been seeing about NN have been rather grim in tone, but some are speaking out about doing that because it's actually not that bad? VERY confusing. So I guess I'll just continue to panic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is a democracy. Its not how we do things in THIS country.
Sentiment is nice but I'm going to have to disagree. We live in an oligarchy now. Just look at how the president was elected! Clearly the higher-ups really do not care what everybody else has to say and have been disregarding all opinions but their own since this year started. Honestly, a world where we have to periodically ring up our senators and representatives to beg for things we need to survive or things that we'd struggle without is NOT what I'd call a democracy.
Although such a viewpoint is not surprising, I did recently read a piece that showed that those born into and brought up in a family that is unreasonably rich tend to exhibit less compassion in general just by nature. They grow up being taught such drastically different ideals from the rest of the world, basically "it's all about me" and everybody else can suck it.
Its days like this I'm inclined to agree with you.
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They actually did it...well, time to round up the mob! Grab your pitchforks and torches!
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The net neutrality regulations imposed utility-style regulation on Internet service providers such as Comcast, AT&T and Verizon to prevent them from favoring their own digital services over their rivals – for instance, by blocking or slowing certain content.
If they do decide to block content...wouldn't a VPN be able to get past the local ISP's? I used one in China to bypass their internet censorship to access sites like FB, Youtube, ect. I would pick a location - usually Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul and it would trick the "whatever it is" into thinking I was accessing the net from another location and not from inside China.
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If they do decide to block content...wouldn't a VPN be able to get past the local ISP's? I used one in China to bypass their internet censorship to access sites like FB, Youtube, ect. I would pick a location - usually Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul and it would trick the "whatever it is" into thinking I was accessing the net from another location and not from inside China.
Honestly this might become a necessity now. Any recommendations?
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Did it happen? I read in the news that net neutrality has been officially scrapped, but I don't see the internet freaking out yet. Anyway, net neutrality is apparently protected by Norwegian law, so I guess I won't be affected... directly :lookround:
When are we going to make international internet laws so stuff like this can't happen? This whole ordeal is so weird.
We might get effected by this. Think of all the non-norwegian sites we use like MLP-Arena, facebook etc.
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The net neutrality regulations imposed utility-style regulation on Internet service providers such as Comcast, AT&T and Verizon to prevent them from favoring their own digital services over their rivals – for instance, by blocking or slowing certain content.
If they do decide to block content...wouldn't a VPN be able to get past the local ISP's? I used one in China to bypass their internet censorship to access sites like FB, Youtube, ect. I would pick a location - usually Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul and it would trick the "whatever it is" into thinking I was accessing the net from another location and not from inside China.
No. You still need your original ISP to "get a signal out" to hook up to a VPN. And the data traffic/bandwidth signature while using a VPN or torrent is unmistakable. All the ISP's have to do is throttle your bandwidth speed until you can barely do anything with your VPN hookup. When the data signatures show your ISP that you're back to watching Youtube, they'll open your bandwidth up again. ;)
Let us just see what happens... it's not like net neutrality has been with us since the Dawn of the Internet!!! It's been law for about two years only :(
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I honestly don't think they will get too far. There are lawsuits already popping up and people are screaming. People = customers=the ones paying for it=companies will have to listen or face a boycott.
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I've been following everything through the Imgur community mostly. I did write (my own) emails, for all the good it did.
My ISP is Comcast, who already nickel and dime you to death, have horrid customer service, and they totally data cap on the weekends even though they say they don't. I bet they're just loving this.
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Wow. I guess we wait to see what happens? According to what I've read, we won't see changes right away- maybe by next year?
The problem is- by the time that changes are happening, it will be too late to "google" a fix or work around...
Will the Arena become a ghost town?
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oh the changes will be slow ... they will creep it in on us a little at a time ... and it became a law when ISPs started doing this stuff, calling into question the legality ... it was an issue already at the time NN came into existence and made it illegal ...
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Well...we did lose.
But, the fight is not over, as has been said right here. To BlackCurtains: It DID do good! All these comments and complaining? It built up to something like 22 million people speaking out in favor of the neutrality. And, it ties RIGHT in there with what Melodys Angel says: The lawsuits, the NY Senator introducing a bill, and the efforts to prove the FCC was negligent and mishandled the entire thing/public commentary period. (Which they did do) It's this kind of technicality thing that the lawyers can get them on, because we did speak out, and it's provable that they did nothing. Also so so so many like 2 mil fraud comments they never addressed that were fakes.
Anyone who commented/called/texted/emailed or wrote a letter to your rep / any rep: THANK YOU. You mattered. Your voice did get heard, even though it doesn't seem like it now. All these voices are the ammo for 'what comes next'. Which is NY guy's bill & the effort to show up the FCC.
LovesbabySquirmy:
Your point is super duper important. It's exactly what everyone on the ISP's side is arguing "makes it ok" because technically it only existed since 2015. That's true. However, The FCC did not oversee ISPs pre-2015, the FTC did; and yes, perhaps most famously Level 3 Communications had made this accusation in 2014 of several major broadband companies throttling connection to Netflix among other services. When this stuff came up, the FTC said "Well hey go to the FCC they can Title 2 the internet & stop that." But that is confusing so:
1. Before 2015 there wasn't the Title 2.
Title 2 = The internet is like a phone line or a water pipe. ALL water and ALL voice goes through it regardless. Some water isn't special. Schools don't get slower water because they're not paying as much as an office tower. If Bell Telephone hates Pizza Hut they can't stop you from calling pizza hut. If Bell Phone hates Catholics, they can't make voice reception to churches all really bad.
2. So why didn't they do all bad before 2015?
Because the FTC COULD sue them. The possibility was there. It hung overhead. Sometimes the providers did get sued for bad things or slapped around. To think of it in a way: The OLD rule did not hold up the sky. The Old Rule was a threat that they sky could fall if someone got out of line too much. Now, there is no rule at all. There is no threat to them if they do bad. And so:
1. Pay hundreds of millions of dollars to buy a knife that ONLY stabs people
2. Swear you will never stab people with it (that's where we are right now)
3. ????
4. Stab everyone because that's what you paid to do.
They lobbied so hard and put in Shill Pai the Verizon Admitted Crony and spent all the money to take the rules away but right now they're promising they won't break them, just like it was in 2015 where they trod on toes occasionally. However, they did not pay all that money to sit and be good and do nothing different.
Kamakazee82 and Galactica are 100% right.
They're going to want to creep because anything now and people will flip lids. They're hoping for that ????? step above so that they can begin to erode things before they start blocking.
What does erosion look like?
Neftlix always buffering
AAA games online work great, foreign games or indies have awful ping/barely playable
Hulu barely works unless you're on the ISP who likes them
Crunchyroll=anime buffers 5 mins before all content
Places like the Arena get slowed down so pages load as if they're dial up because the Arena won't pay to get out of the slow lane
Where does it lead?
To the blocking that's been mentioned before. They can block by words too...so pages with stuff like this written on them:
"Net Neutrality"
or
Women's Rights
or
Verizon is bad because
or
We need to protest
or
Vote for a Democrat in _____
because those words could be a threat to them, they can just 404 that page or tell you it's unavailable. The idea is that the internet can organize people against stuff that infringes on them. **Which already happened! 22 Million Comments & protests now & all we did for NN the FIRST TIME 2015** (See also the #metoo, see also how Weinstine got ruined/smashed as everyone stepped up: if the internet wasn't here you'd never hear of him being bad & he'd still be where he was, see also every time some video or voice clip of someone being bad gets exposed, etc)
If you want to infringe (which they paid to do) you have to take away that part of the internet. By shutting off the voice that could stop them from getting more money by blocking the pages that talk about stopping them, or just talk about things they don't agree with. It's really easy to imagine stuff like 'black lives matter' or 'synagogue' or 'anti-war with north Korea' or 'police state' being no-no words in a year or two if they get away with what they want. Nobody is supposed to notice when stuff like that can't get said. But by then, it's too late to say anything about it.
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If you want to infringe (which they paid to do) you have to take away that part of the internet. By shutting off the voice that could stop them from getting more money by blocking the pages that talk about stopping them, or just talk about things they don't agree with. It's really easy to imagine stuff like 'black lives matter' or 'synagogue' or 'anti-war with north Korea' or 'police state' being no-no words in a year or two if they get away with what they want. Nobody is supposed to notice when stuff like that can't get said. But by then, it's too late to say anything about it.
Which is how China's internet access operates...
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I hear a few states are going to sue now because it is illegal what they just passed. So definitely the fight is still going so no one loose hope!
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Also while we are worried about what the big ISPs will do even small ones could be a danger. An ultra religious person could start a small ISP that intentionally filters out "unholy" content. Ultra religious parents could make that company their internet provider and then their teenager is sheltered from important information.
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Got a minute to read?
Take a look at what's to come written by someone in a related field. Everyone knew some kind of detail or plan would appear at some point in January, and so, as predicted, it has happened & now been outlined below.
Wardah: This does get rid of your fear of the religgo ISP, because it gets rid of any and all isps other than the ones here now.
If you read through this, you'll soon see how sinister this whole thing is going to get & when/how it will do so. The following is NOT written by me, (all thing in quote below is very well written, but not by me) I am adding a quote from an article by a guy who's name is likely a bit of a swear soooooooooooooo:
"*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable TV had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *
Edit: Step 3 is happening way sooner than expected. Check out the video in another thread and let me know if you notice anything interesting about the language used at the end
Most people are missing the bigger picture here, and it's not about slowing speeds across the board.
The real goal here is to get all data under one umbrella, then impose data caps (extremely low ones), then use the repeal of Net Neutrality to push cable-like packages for things like Netflix and Twitch to have those sites avoid counting against the cap.
The push to get all mobile and otherwise non-broadband data classified as broadband is to assure that any data you use on any device counts against a cap.
The slow and imminent death of cable TV is the cause of this. The reason ISPs didn't start down this path earlier was because cord cutting wasn't nearly as prevalent five years ago, and companies still didn't have a clear cut path to monetizing the internet." (Cord Cutting started happening more & more as people got sick of paying for cable packages with channels they didn't use, paying for it but having to watch ads anyway & paying extreme amounts for shows that 'weren't that good'. It also got more cord cutting because fast internet meant people could watch what they wanted & play games/chat with friends and made TV less important in people's lives.)
"So, this is just the next step. Look for LANGUAGE about caps to come up after midterms, and for aggressive bills to be pushed through allowing very low data caps nationwide.
You will also see some sort of push to completely remove the possibility of start up ISPs. This will take form in an infrastructure bill severely limiting access to poles and underground junctions by new companies without direct permission from the existing ISPs that have cable on those poles.
Step 1: repealing Net Neutrality. This allows them to offer packages that don't count against a data cap.
Step 2: push to classify all data under one umbrella, so all data counts against said cap.
Step 3: eliminate the possibility of local ISP startups or competition by making access to infrastructure either impossible, unreasonably expensive, or take far too much time for a new company to feasibly compete. Edit: To clarify, and to take from another post that I wrote before I saw the new video trying to propagate against local startup/municipal ISPs:
As to the infrastructure side start looking for ads and bills being pushed to "focus on local safety and security" and to "improve infrastructure and roads", these are ways to pass things that don't let upstarts near the junctions, poles, and do the required splicing to actually get access to the existing network.
Step 4: implement data caps. This will be the time where aggressive shilling will take place on the form of "everyone is using so much internet we have to. You can't just let these people take your internet!"
It's the gamers/torrent-ers/those bad bad people who watch too much video! The internet is a finite resource & they're hogging it away from YOU! We can NEVER IMPROVE our infrastructure from how it was in 2000....it is YOU who must use less so others can have more! CAPS CAPS Improvement of technology is impossible & better service is impossible also, we must cap or no one will get anything ever again.
"Step 5: this is the end game that we are talking about when NN got thrown out. Majority of plans will have a 10-20 GB data plan monthly. Going over will be extremely expensive. Packages will be offered for different websites to not count against that cap. This is where you can expect to pay over 100$ a month for just internet for the same speeds you have now for unlimited access to only certain sites. Torrenting will clearly be hit extremely hard here, as will games.""
Did you read the text wall?
Do you believe it?
Here's an ad that's actually already on air on TV now (if you live in Colorado somewhere)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjulAWmLmx0&feature=youtu.be
(Just look at the video, don't scroll down someone curses it out immediately)
So, with the ad that's real you can see the start of the predicted plan outlined above. Credible threat here...
One of their cities got angry like that Chattanooga TN place & put up a "town broadband" because their politicians voted away the lawyers who were going to sue to stop the town. So, the ISPs are really ragey right now there & paid to put up that ad video that you can watch at that link there above. So, their plan is going along, but there are ways to thwart it.
What does this do?
Shows you that YOU can make a difference by calling your reps
(It worked in Colorado, as proof with the ad--it was citizens standing up there that made their network possible)
And VOTE VOTE VOTE. Get out there and start voting! This is a voting year, go register to do it because it works, then vote out the jerks who would do this. If it gets real cappy and costly like that, I won't be able to afford to come here, and I bet a few other people on this site are in the same boat who can't just shell out an extra 100/month just to have a peep at the Arena.
-
Got a minute to read?
Take a look at what's to come written by someone in a related field. Everyone knew some kind of detail or plan would appear at some point in January, and so, as predicted, it has happened & now been outlined below.
Wardah: This does get rid of your fear of the religgo ISP, because it gets rid of any and all isps other than the ones here now.
If you read through this, you'll soon see how sinister this whole thing is going to get & when/how it will do so. The following is NOT written by me, (all thing in quote below is very well written, but not by me) I am adding a quote from an article by a guy who's name is likely a bit of a swear soooooooooooooo:
"*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable TV had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *
Edit: Step 3 is happening way sooner than expected. Check out the video in another thread and let me know if you notice anything interesting about the language used at the end
Most people are missing the bigger picture here, and it's not about slowing speeds across the board.
The real goal here is to get all data under one umbrella, then impose data caps (extremely low ones), then use the repeal of Net Neutrality to push cable-like packages for things like Netflix and Twitch to have those sites avoid counting against the cap.
The push to get all mobile and otherwise non-broadband data classified as broadband is to assure that any data you use on any device counts against a cap.
The slow and imminent death of cable TV is the cause of this. The reason ISPs didn't start down this path earlier was because cord cutting wasn't nearly as prevalent five years ago, and companies still didn't have a clear cut path to monetizing the internet." (Cord Cutting started happening more & more as people got sick of paying for cable packages with channels they didn't use, paying for it but having to watch ads anyway & paying extreme amounts for shows that 'weren't that good'. It also got more cord cutting because fast internet meant people could watch what they wanted & play games/chat with friends and made TV less important in people's lives.)
"So, this is just the next step. Look for LANGUAGE about caps to come up after midterms, and for aggressive bills to be pushed through allowing very low data caps nationwide.
You will also see some sort of push to completely remove the possibility of start up ISPs. This will take form in an infrastructure bill severely limiting access to poles and underground junctions by new companies without direct permission from the existing ISPs that have cable on those poles.
Step 1: repealing Net Neutrality. This allows them to offer packages that don't count against a data cap.
Step 2: push to classify all data under one umbrella, so all data counts against said cap.
Step 3: eliminate the possibility of local ISP startups or competition by making access to infrastructure either impossible, unreasonably expensive, or take far too much time for a new company to feasibly compete. Edit: To clarify, and to take from another post that I wrote before I saw the new video trying to propagate against local startup/municipal ISPs:
As to the infrastructure side start looking for ads and bills being pushed to "focus on local safety and security" and to "improve infrastructure and roads", these are ways to pass things that don't let upstarts near the junctions, poles, and do the required splicing to actually get access to the existing network.
Step 4: implement data caps. This will be the time where aggressive shilling will take place on the form of "everyone is using so much internet we have to. You can't just let these people take your internet!"
It's the gamers/torrent-ers/those bad bad people who watch too much video! The internet is a finite resource & they're hogging it away from YOU! We can NEVER IMPROVE our infrastructure from how it was in 2000....it is YOU who must use less so others can have more! CAPS CAPS Improvement of technology is impossible & better service is impossible also, we must cap or no one will get anything ever again.
"Step 5: this is the end game that we are talking about when NN got thrown out. Majority of plans will have a 10-20 GB data plan monthly. Going over will be extremely expensive. Packages will be offered for different websites to not count against that cap. This is where you can expect to pay over 100$ a month for just internet for the same speeds you have now for unlimited access to only certain sites. Torrenting will clearly be hit extremely hard here, as will games.""
Did you read the text wall?
Do you believe it?
Here's an ad that's actually already on air on TV now (if you live in Colorado somewhere)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjulAWmLmx0&feature=youtu.be
(Just look at the video, don't scroll down someone curses it out immediately)
So, with the ad that's real you can see the start of the predicted plan outlined above. Credible threat here...
One of their cities got angry like that Chattanooga TN place & put up a "town broadband" because their politicians voted away the lawyers who were going to sue to stop the town. So, the ISPs are really ragey right now there & paid to put up that ad video that you can watch at that link there above. So, their plan is going along, but there are ways to thwart it.
What does this do?
Shows you that YOU can make a difference by calling your reps
(It worked in Colorado, as proof with the ad--it was citizens standing up there that made their network possible)
And VOTE VOTE VOTE. Get out there and start voting! This is a voting year, go register to do it because it works, then vote out the jerks who would do this. If it gets real cappy and costly like that, I won't be able to afford to come here, and I bet a few other people on this site are in the same boat who can't just shell out an extra 100/month just to have a peep at the Arena.
Well that sucks. I have data caps on my phone already. If my home internet starts capping data I'll just cancel them and stick with my phone since the only reason I have home internet is to avoid the cap. I'm sure that's the case for lots of people too so they better watch out or they will find themselves losing customers.
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...Did they just try to shove down my throat that the internet is finite?
im sorry. If that's the best they can come up with to brainwash everyone to go with the plan, im sure there will be many many people that will see to a reversal happens.
Don't go lying about that to me or anyone else. Its going to backfire. They will loose too many customers.