Nearly Non Existent Pony Section

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I don't think a "knowing your place" idea was really intended...

Also, does it matter if future generations don't get to share MLP? Looking at where it is now, is that really something we want to share with the future? Is it really okay for it just to be there for the sake of keeping the brand alive, even when the soul has long since been sucked out of it? Personally, I'm okay with it fading into the past. I've never loved the hype G4 brought into the pony collecting world.

1. There's always the chance for the soul to return
2. It was the hype from G4 that finally nudged me into actually checking out MLP. And that in turn led to me checking out and falling in love with G1, and meeting the wonderful communities here and on the Trading Post.
I feel kinda unwelcome now...
 

[Taffeta]

I don't think a "knowing your place" idea was really intended...

Also, does it matter if future generations don't get to share MLP? Looking at where it is now, is that really something we want to share with the future? Is it really okay for it just to be there for the sake of keeping the brand alive, even when the soul has long since been sucked out of it? Personally, I'm okay with it fading into the past. I've never loved the hype G4 brought into the pony collecting world.

1. There's always the chance for the soul to return
2. It was the hype from G4 that finally nudged me into actually checking out MLP. And that in turn led to me checking out and falling in love with G1, and meeting the wonderful communities here and on the Trading Post.
I feel kinda unwelcome now...
 

Don't be silly.

 It's pretty obvious that the hype train I'm talking about was the media chaos, the brony explosion, the meme culture and the influx of people whose behaviour damaged the reputation of pony collectors for a long time to come. Whether you like it or not, G4's fandom became infested with people whose sole purpose in life is to make other people miserable on social media - and Hasbro marketed towards those people, at the expense of their real audience, which was the kids. The moment MLP stopped being about kids first and foremost, it died

Having seen and experienced the bad side of the G4 fandom, I think I'm entitled to say that I disliked what that hype brought. You would have to be completely oblivious to that impact in order to think my comments were targeting any actual fans, whether they be old or new.

Please don't twist my words into something I didn't say. Nobody is making anyone unwelcome.

With regards to the other point, does it matter if that was or wasn't the intention when it is the final outcome? Earth ponies do earth pony things. Pegasus ponies do flying things. Unicorn ponies do magicky things. Is that not being categorised into x y and z?

It's unfair to quote that one line without the context I gave it, of how the comic and characters were rendered in the UK and why I feel that jolt. The reality is that when you grow up with a 'ponyland' where the pony species had no impact whatsoever on what they could do, it makes it much more noticeable when ponies are pigeonholed into 'species' in other representations.

Going back to that, I think it is interesting that the backcards the US had often informed the UK stories, and that the US often had more detailed backcard stories than the UK (at least early on), but didn't really use them at all. The thing I mentioned about Magic Star being the most magical pony in ponyland comes from the fact file. But I think it's based loosely on Magic Star's card story in the US. Magic Star doesn't have a backcard story in the UK, because the Movie Star ponies only have a brief one sentence on the backs of their cards for each of them. It's a lovely card but useless for really learning about the ponies. In fact, the one lines there are more in keeping with the actual movie representation.

So there's this beautiful irony whereby ponies like Shady and Magic Star have proper backcard stories in the US (albeit they're SS ponies), that story is then disregarded by the US and used in the UK comics. But Hasbro UK, when promoting our versions of those ponies, connects them to the movie, and thus removes those characterisations that the original backcards (and comics) laid out.

All of that probably ought to be  on the Hasbro's Baffling Decisions thread, because it is nuts, but it's also pretty interesting that it happened like that. It does give the feeling of multiple different narratives around G1 (backcards, comics, animation) and that they didn't necessarily mesh with what else was going on in the same location.

In the comic and annual stories, Magic Star could grant wishes. Later on, so could Rainbow Magic, a pegasus pony. But even some of the boy ponies had magic skills. I remember Ice Crystal making ice slides in the 1988 annual. I also am pretty sure Lightning could wink in and out like a lightning flash.

And Baby Lucky had a lot of happy-go-lucky magic going on, which included the random ability to bring drawings of the newborn twins to life.

Compared to that, the "Unicorns do magic, pegasus ponies fly, earth ponies are just ponies" rhetoric just jars with me. It genuinely feels like 'everyone in their place', because it is decided by a pony's species. In the case of pegasi and weather magic, it also feel generic, not individual. And G4 made that even firmer with the cutie marks and their destined meaning. G5 have also not moved away from the idea...although Sunny does break the mould a bit, it's not the same thing.

[DreamvalleyMLP]

I always thought G1 earthlings stood out because of their physical strength; developed because they don't have magic or flight to rely on? In the 80s movie, Magic Star was able to jump the big chasm in the field of sunflowers, and Fizzy couldn't - saying she has her unicorn power to help her across (something like that).

Unicorns - magic
Pegasi - flight
Earthlings - strength

Seemed fair to me

I also liked how the unicorns' magic talent was pony-specific, instead of what G4 gave us.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I don't think a "knowing your place" idea was really intended...

Also, does it matter if future generations don't get to share MLP? Looking at where it is now, is that really something we want to share with the future? Is it really okay for it just to be there for the sake of keeping the brand alive, even when the soul has long since been sucked out of it? Personally, I'm okay with it fading into the past. I've never loved the hype G4 brought into the pony collecting world.

1. There's always the chance for the soul to return
2. It was the hype from G4 that finally nudged me into actually checking out MLP. And that in turn led to me checking out and falling in love with G1, and meeting the wonderful communities here and on the Trading Post.
I feel kinda unwelcome now...
 

Don't be silly.

 It's pretty obvious that the hype train I'm talking about was the media chaos, the brony explosion, the meme culture and the influx of people whose behaviour damaged the reputation of pony collectors for a long time to come.

That same explosion is what drew me in back in 2011, via a friend who got into it. If it wasn't for that, I might never have met y'all - nor some of my other very close friends. I'm not happy about all the toxicity that hype ultimately brought, but it kinda felt like you were writing off everyone who came on board because of the excitement.

Whether you like it or not, G4's fandom became infested with people whose sole purpose in life is to make other people miserable on social media - and Hasbro marketed towards those people, at the expense of their real audience, which was the kids. The moment MLP stopped being about kids first and foremost, it died

Having seen and experienced the bad side of the G4 fandom, I think I'm entitled to say that I disliked what that hype brought. You would have to be completely oblivious to that impact in order to think my comments were targeting any actual fans, whether they be old or new.

I saw and experienced the bad side of the G4 fandom as well. I tried to get them to be better about how they acted towards people and how they viewed previous generations, but I doubt I achieved much. There are reasons I abandoned any brony spaces aside from Tumblr, and even that's gone inactive for me for various reasons.

Please don't twist my words into something I didn't say. Nobody is making anyone unwelcome.

The thing is, together with something else you said...

Unpopular opinion, too, but I am ok with MLP ending with G5. I feel like we already had 2 generations too many, given the chaos of G4 and then this. MLP doesn't need to be constantly trampled down by repetitive overselling of the same characters. If MLP disappeared completely, well, so what? Those of us who grew up with G1 survived that and we're still surviving it. Will it really make a huge difference if ponies stop being sold? The ones most of us grew up with (G1 or G3 included) haven't been on shelves for years but we're still here for them...

...It kinda feels like you're writing off people who grew up with G4 or didn't come on board til G4. And almost like you're wishing people who grew up with G1 through G3 had gotten to keep MLP all to themselves.

With regards to the other point, does it matter if that was or wasn't the intention when it is the final outcome? Earth ponies do earth pony things. Pegasus ponies do flying things. Unicorn ponies do magicky things. Is that not being categorised into x y and z?

It's unfair to quote that one line without the context I gave it, of how the comic and characters were rendered in the UK and why I feel that jolt. The reality is that when you grow up with a 'ponyland' where the pony species had no impact whatsoever on what they could do, it makes it much more noticeable when ponies are pigeonholed into 'species' in other representations.

1. I was responding in passing because I was sad and tired and mainly concentrating on the other thing.
2. I do understand why you feel that jolt. It's very different from what you were used to growing up.
3. On further reflection, I realized a bit of a wrinkle to this. The backcard stories (and the media they influenced) did attribute magic to Earth Ponies... but only if they were from a special set like the Rainbow Ponies, the So-Soft Ponies (excluding rereleases), etc. So for instance, Parasol has magic (mentioned on both her backcard and Posey's), but "plain" Earth Ponies like the Original Six, Applejack, Bubbles, Tootsie... They got nothing, and I don't think the comics attributed any to them either. The one exception to this is Lickety-Split, whose backcard describes her as turning mountains to ice cream(!) by kicking her heels. But she's an anomaly. None of the other "plain" Earth ponies get anything like that - only the ones from special sets, to make them seem more special.

Of course, by Year Four they had stopped producing "plain" Earth Ponies (at least as far as the US went) and everybody was from a special set.

Going back to that, I think it is interesting that the backcards the US had often informed the UK stories, and that the US often had more detailed backcard stories than the UK (at least early on), but didn't really use them at all. The thing I mentioned about Magic Star being the most magical pony in ponyland comes from the fact file. But I think it's based loosely on Magic Star's card story in the US.

As far as the UK media using the backcard stories goes... the UK backcard stories were all cut down (probably to prepare a shortened version that could be translated multiple times over for the continental release), but Hasbro would have still had the original full-length versions on file to provide to people producing fiction. And of course, comics and the like have much shorter turnaround.
As far as the US media not using them... Well, in the cartoon's case that can probably be attributed in part to when it started. The original specials (which set a bit of a pattern for how the rest was written) were created at a time when they didn't offer much characterization and said little about specific powers for most ponies. When it comes to the movie and series, production lead time (IE, needing to get production rolling before any backcard story was even available) and the action-adventure focus may also have been factors. Also characters' limited screentime from the need to hawk as many toys with the show as possible.
My headcanon is that at least some of the backcard abilities do still exist in the cartoon's universe (since it doesn't outright preclude them in most cases), and just never came up in the events the cartoon showed.

Magic Star doesn't have a backcard story in the UK, because the Movie Star ponies only have a brief one sentence on the backs of their cards for each of them. It's a lovely card but useless for really learning about the ponies. In fact, the one lines there are more in keeping with the actual movie representation.

So there's this beautiful irony whereby ponies like Shady and Magic Star have proper backcard stories in the US (albeit they're SS ponies), that story is then disregarded by the US and used in the UK comics. But Hasbro UK, when promoting our versions of those ponies, connects them to the movie, and thus removes those characterisations that the original backcards (and comics) laid out.

That probably has to do with Hasbro UK trying to give the movie a little extra promotion since it was a big expensive project, the UK releases coming later, and those characters not being part of special sets like they were in the US.

All of that probably ought to be  on the Hasbro's Baffling Decisions thread, because it is nuts, but it's also pretty interesting that it happened like that. It does give the feeling of multiple different narratives around G1 (backcards, comics, animation) and that they didn't necessarily mesh with what else was going on in the same location.

Transformers G1 had a similar disconnect, although to a lesser degree.

In the comic and annual stories, Magic Star could grant wishes. Later on, so could Rainbow Magic, a pegasus pony. But even some of the boy ponies had magic skills. I remember Ice Crystal making ice slides in the 1988 annual. I also am pretty sure Lightning could wink in and out like a lightning flash.

And Baby Lucky had a lot of happy-go-lucky magic going on, which included the random ability to bring drawings of the newborn twins to life.

1. Mind you, a lot of those never even got a chance to appear in the cartoon (and some - like the second set of stallions - were UK-only), so we never got to see what it would or wouldn't have done with them.
2. Who's "Rainbow Magic"? Are they a fiction-exclusive character? I've found an issue by that name, but not a pony.

Compared to that, the "Unicorns do magic, pegasus ponies fly, earth ponies are just ponies" rhetoric just jars with me. It genuinely feels like 'everyone in their place', because it is decided by a pony's species. In the case of pegasi and weather magic, it also feel generic, not individual. And G4 made that even firmer with the cutie marks and their destined meaning. G5 have also not moved away from the idea...although Sunny does break the mould a bit, it's not the same thing.

1. Regarding cutie marks, they never felt to me like a prescriptive "destiny" so much as representing something a pony truly resonates with and feels a calling toward or has a special talent in doing. And they were an effort to try and make the symbols more special.
2. I get more of a sense of "different species are special in different ways/channel magic in different ways" (and hey, weather magic gives pegasus ponies more to do than just fly) or at least an attempt at such, although it's at best underdeveloped with Earth Ponies.
3. G4 does still give ponies their own unique specialties in addition to general species powers.
4. What would you do to balance things so that you don't have the opposite extreme, where a pony's species adds nothing special to them whatsoever?

[Taffeta]

I mentioned G1 and G3 for two reasons - one, that collectors of G1 and G3 represent the majority of people in this community (yourself included), and two, that they are two collecting pony fandom groups whose generation has long since ended but whose support and interest has endured regardless. G4 ended far too recently and is far too entwined with G5 to say that about. We all know G4 ended in chaos and you agreed yourself that G5 needed to be a complete, reboot, right? G1 ended in 1995. G3 in 2011. Yet those fans are all still here regardless. (I didn't cite G2 simply because the fandom is smaller and usually alongside G1 or G3).

What that has to do with fans who came in with G4, I'm not sure. I never said or implied anything against fans who came in with G4, or G4 fans. I also didn't differentiate between G1 fans who were here before or after G4, as you imply. I only mentioned the chaos, because that's all I was talking about.

Again, please don't twist my words into something they are not.

Back on topic.

Probably not for Lickety, but there is Tootsie's Pollipop Latch. That comes from her US backcard, and although it wasn't used on her UK card, it did feature in the fact file. It also featured heavily in the comics as Tootsie's weird magical ability, which she often used consciously to grow lollipops for the babies.

While it's true that the cards are from SS ponies, too, in a UK context Shady and Magic Star both count as 'normal' release ponies. There's also Snowflake, although you can see hers as either magic or artistry.

At the same time, while Powder and Twilight had magic, I don't remember either Sunbeam or Skyflier being especially magical in the comic. In fact, as a kid, I took against Sunbeam because she 'just threw parties' as opposed to doing something more interesting, LOL. Medley had magic but Firefly was just a daredevil (and often reckless). So the magic was scattered between ponies, but not by species, even right back in the early days.

There is no comic prior to 1985, and no stories here really pre-1984, so it's hard to talk about the ponies that came before that. Only Cotton Candy and Blossom made it into the comics because of their re-release...and mostly it was Blossom chasing Cotton Candy out of her garden iirc.

Rainbow Magic is the pegasus from the Rainbow Curl set. That is her name over here.

Edit: Coming back to this this afternoon I realised that I didn't respond to your last points. It may sound odd but I don't really care if species are distinguished from one another. Probably this is a product of that childhood where it was more about the personality and the magic, but I think it's also because I'm not really on board with that categorising thing of "this is a unicorn" "this is an earth pony" "this is a pegasus" because of shared characteristics. Powder and Snowflake have far more in common than Medley and Heart Throb. And I'm okay with that. :/


We should really get this discussion back to the subject of dwindling store shelves, though. All I think this latter discussion has demonstrated was that G1 had a lot more effort put in (wherever and whatever level) to create characters and lure kids in, whereas now they rely a lot more on digital/outside media (even though blatantly toy-promoting tv shows are no longer allowed in the way they once were).

[Leave a Whisper]

I don't think a "knowing your place" idea was really intended...

Also, does it matter if future generations don't get to share MLP? Looking at where it is now, is that really something we want to share with the future? Is it really okay for it just to be there for the sake of keeping the brand alive, even when the soul has long since been sucked out of it? Personally, I'm okay with it fading into the past. I've never loved the hype G4 brought into the pony collecting world.

1. There's always the chance for the soul to return
2. It was the hype from G4 that finally nudged me into actually checking out MLP. And that in turn led to me checking out and falling in love with G1, and meeting the wonderful communities here and on the Trading Post.
I feel kinda unwelcome now...
 

Highly doubtful Hasbro will have an epiphany,  and return the brand to its glory days.

Also, getting into a civilized disagreement does not mean you are not welcomed. It just means you got into a disagreement. 

[KarentheUnicorn]

I think one of the differences in G1 compared to the toy line now is Hasbro from the beginning seemed to look at the G1 toy line as a 'collectable'. Some folks not familiar with MLP marketing back in the 80's probably don't know this but Basic Fun and hasbro didn't start calling the first 6 MLP collector ponies in the last 10/20 years. They were calling them collector ponies as early as 1986. I've got a letter I received back in the 80's from the mail order programing documenting Hasbro already calling those ponies 'collector ponies'

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Even way back then they were looking at MLP toy line as something more than just toys a 3 year old kid was going to tear up and loose interest in once they grew out of it. They must have seen by the interest and even looked at how 'kids' and adults treated the ponies back then. I remember when I bought my first 2 ponies (Moondancer and Firefly) my cousin had also purchased a pony and both of us (Me around 11/12 I think and my cousin around 8/9 - we both wanted to collect ALL the ponies). Hasbro probably could tell by the mail order program that the reaction to MLP back then was that people were actually buying them to put on a shelf and admire.

I think as a creator of toys IF you're looking at your toy line as something more valuable than toys then I feel like you'd put more effort and attention to detail into it; instead of now it feels like the G5 and even going by to the G4, it was just get something out quick and as cheaply as possible.

I also wish they'd have waited a couple years and then revamped the whole MLP line to something completely different. While it's so close to G4 I think that G5 sort of suffers when I think it could have been way different if they'd given it not only a cooling off period, but been given more time to develop the idea away from G4.

[DreamvalleyMLP]

FYI Hasbro's earnings call is coming up (Feb. 13); they'll review the financials for 2023, and usually these calls end with a projected outlook for the new year. Maybe this will shed some light on what their plans are and what to expect this year.

[Taffeta]

The toy fair is normally around the end of February, I think..? Will be interesting to see what, if anything emerges.

Uni, I always love that letter, and you're right. I have letters like that too - Baby Lucky is the one that springs to mind here. They connected the ponies and the world the ponies came from to the kids, like it was a real place, which is a lot different from the glossy, encapsulated world of the TV screen that is most modern marketing. I know this is also about the time period, but I always think that - at least in the early years - Hasbro did try and build a brand and a bond between kid and toy line, rather than it just being a clinical ritual of farming out lumps of coloured plastic for cash.

Let me find my baby Lucky letters...since so few ponies were sold through MO here, he always sticks in my mind.
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This is the one that came with him. It's my original one, so it's a bit tatty. I don't seem to have a scan of the one promoting him easily to hand, but this one is cuter. (In the UK it was Ponyland and not Dream Valley; older ponies used to go live in Memory Lane, at least according to the comic).

There was also the club. I don't think there's been a pony club for a while? Did G4 have one? I was a member here for I think 3 years, and I remember the packs coming with activity booklets, and pens and pencil cases and other stuff...and then the last year I was a member was the first baby pony, and all the club stuff was about how to take care of the pony, her name certificate and so on. I remember begging to have the club renewed in 1989 literally because of the following bit of clever marketing:
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Emotional blackmail at its best, followed up with:
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On receipt of the first club installment.

These are little things that appealed to kids and probably kept the line alive longer. It's that engagement, while less polished, that feels a little more personal somehow?

I have so many bits of paper from G1 like this, aside the backcards. Some of them are here:
https://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/mo_ukstuff.htm
G2 and G3 had sort of stories or character information on packages as well, which gave them a bit of individuality. Both also had some mail order or other releases going on, promotions, etc. G4 always felt tied up in the series and the focus was on its popularity, though. It was already a polished article so connecting to it - and G5's world - is maybe a bit more difficult?

[Ponyfan]

There's also this US pamphlet that mentions Cotton Candy and her set mates being Collector Ponies.

http://mylittlewiki.org/wiki/File:Lucky-mo2.jpg

They're guests at Satin n Lace's wedding.


Ponyfan

[ChocolateStarfire]

I love the letters. I wish promo materials were like that more often, with kids toys. Anyway I hope things will turn around with MLP eventually.

[Flitter]

The toy fair is normally around the end of February, I think..? Will be interesting to see what, if anything emerges.

New York Toy Fair is not happening this year (postponed until next year), but Nuremberg Toy Fair is happening right now, until February 3!
I haven't seen any news from there yet other than that Hasbro and Basic Fun are exhibiting and showcasing MLP. I'm hoping some images or news will surface soon.

[Snapdragon]

Whether you like it or not, G4's fandom became infested with people whose sole purpose in life is to make other people miserable on social media - and Hasbro marketed towards those people, at the expense of their real audience, which was the kids. The moment MLP stopped being about kids first and foremost, it died

God, this stopped me in my tracks, and I had to just pluck this little line out of the full response, because it bowls me over with how true it is, and I haven't really seen it summed up so neatly before. But it's true, it was like - the memeification of glorifying cruelty to other people, of bonding over nasty and hateful behavior because it was fun. Like cult behavior, attacking the 'other' when the 'other' was women and children who dared to enjoy MLP 'incorrectly'. I know that's not what everyone in the Brony fandom took from it or enjoyed, but that type seemed to slowly edge more and more people out of public fandom spaces, until it seemed like those were the only people left. I cannot wait until that particular scourge finds a new interest.

Anyway, back on topic - I was thinking about this thread when I went to Walmart last weekend, and I decided to hunt for ponies ... and found absolutely nothing. There's not even a section for them anymore. There's not even those super cute Hairmazing unicorn knockoffs, the ones for like $1? Gone. They did have some of the fairy dolls, so I really hope they bring back the unis - and the ponies!! We need something equine in there!

[goddessofpeep]

It’s unfortunate that Hasbro’s decisions screwed up the brand so much.  Having a popular generation in stores benefits the collector community in ways besides the obvious giving them product to buy. We do benefit from excitement over the brand.  We get to enjoy the third party licensed products. There were a ton of goodies aimed at adults during the G4 craze.

The real benefit is the new fans it creates. Not all people who buy ponies come into the collector community, but a percentage do.  And a few years down the line, we can expect an influx of nostalgic “I had these as a kid!” collectors.  As a community, we need new members. I’ve been in this community since about 1997ish.  I’d say that less than 5% of the people who were active when I joined are still active now. It’s true that if something is *too* popular, it can cause issues(like bringing problem people into the community as we saw with the G4s), but without a constant influx of new members, this community will eventually wither away to nothing.

I hope G5 does well enough to get a G6.  I hope Hasbro pulls itself together and turns MLP in the right direction.  I hope the toy industry as a whole does better.  The loss of TRU and the large toy stores in general was a blow, but kids today are going more for electronic stuff instead of toys.   The long term consequences of this are unknown, but I feel bad for kids these days.  I think the culture as a whole makes them grow up too fast, and their options for toys that encourage imagination are dwindling.

[cowboyopossum]

Whether you like it or not, G4's fandom became infested with people whose sole purpose in life is to make other people miserable on social media - and Hasbro marketed towards those people, at the expense of their real audience, which was the kids. The moment MLP stopped being about kids first and foremost, it died

God, this stopped me in my tracks, and I had to just pluck this little line out of the full response, because it bowls me over with how true it is, and I haven't really seen it summed up so neatly before. But it's true, it was like - the memeification of glorifying cruelty to other people, of bonding over nasty and hateful behavior because it was fun. Like cult behavior, attacking the 'other' when the 'other' was women and children who dared to enjoy MLP 'incorrectly'. I know that's not what everyone in the Brony fandom took from it or enjoyed, but that type seemed to slowly edge more and more people out of public fandom spaces, until it seemed like those were the only people left. I cannot wait until that particular scourge finds a new interest.

I think this is a wonderful explanation. Whenever people refer to me as a "brony" theres this visceral disgust in my gut. People need to stop lumping awful, vile people on some other site to collectors who truly love MLP and are not in it just for the laughs. I like when the brand caters to collectors as well as children, but they never should have been catering to bronies.

It ruined the reputation of collectors as well as MLP, because all people can think of when they see MLP is those people. I grew up with MLP, it has been my special interest for my whole life. I am glad my family see it the same way I do, as something that brings me so much joy. I am truly grateful for my collection, I dont only care about it only to be "trendy."

Its been so disappointing to see Hasbro pulling ponies from stores, even in smaller toy stores in my town there's just... nothing. It actually made me cry the first time i saw it, like they're trying to scrub my childhood and my passion from store shelves. The only horse toys I have seen are in 5 below, those low effort fakes and sparkle girl ponies.