What do people find "girly" about My Little Pony? (please read first)

[MJNSEIFER]

I feel kind of awkward asking this, but has been something I've been meaning to ask, and also, in a sense get off my chest for a while.  I really hope no one takes it the wrong way...

I understand now that My Little Pony is primarily a girl's franchise (I was a little confused about something Bonnie said before, but I get it now) and I don't mind that I am a boy watching it, it has never bothered me, even when people told me it should, and even when I believed myself I shouldn't ever become a fan, I feel like I always didn't care deep down.

I didn't realize this until long after I became a fan, and saw other opinions on things, but I realized something about myself - I care so little about what gender something is marketed towards, I actually can't tell the difference anymore, and probably never could.

I see people fighting within the brony fandom about which generation is more girly than the other, or more boyish than the other, and while, in general (not just for MLP) neither is really a bad thing, I can't see anything girly or boyish about any of them - they all look genderless to me, like they could be enjoyed by a boy or a girl.

This isn't a macho thing, like I say I am fine with the idea of me, a guy, liking something made for girls, but what is it that makes people look at any generation of My Little Pony and think that it's not only for girls, but is also "girly"?

If you take the time to answer this, you will most probably get a confused or surprised response from me, so be warned.  This is because, like I said, I have never really categorised "Boy stuff" and "Girl Stuff", so it comes a shock to me when I see things done so.  For example, I always felt the slumber parties was something either gender did (I hosted a few when I was young), but someone on the MLP: FIM wikia said that it was a girly activity, and some ponies have been accused of being more "boy" like just because they are more "action packed" than the other girls, yet I've never associated that as just a boy thing.

Also I notice a lot of male bronies say that G3 (the show) is too girly for them, but to be it doesn't seem any less girly, or anymore girly than the other generations, is there any truth to what they're saying or is this just another anti-G3 thing (not that "Being girly" is a good reason to be "anti-anything". Also, I love G3.)

And yes, I know that ponies are regarded as a girl's animal, but even that is something I never understood.

[melipuffles]

For me, I don't find My Little Pony...any gen...particularly "girly". Feminine, yes, but I don't consider girly and feminine to be the same thing.

To me girly is the stereotypical "pinkboycrazypopulargirlteenager" nonsense that people assume anything aimed at females is....but traditionally feminine things can be liked by anyone, just like traditionally masculine things can be.

Just because pastels, love, friendship and magic have been aimed primarily at girls doesn't make them bad, and to me the term "girly" always seemed bad. Sort of in the way someone would say to a baseball player that he "throws like a girl."

.....This doesn't really make a lot of sense, does it. Haha.

[Firehooves]

(My comments were exsessive and inappropriate, mods please delete)

[Sunset]

I think that this is a very complex subject and there isn't  a simple answer.  But if I had to put it down to 3 things, these would be the 3 things I would guess.

1)  Brushable hair- stereotypically girls like to do their hair more than boys.  I can not think of a single toy in the boy's toy section that has brushable hair.  In fact the only toy I can think of seeing in the boys section that does not have molded hair is Jesse from Toy Story.  And you'll notice that her hair is "pre-styled" to look just like the character in the movies.  I also find it interesting that there was never so much of a call for "show accurate" characters until the fan base had such a large influx of male fans.

2) Colors-  Girls/women are allowed a much wider range of color choices than boys/men.  Of course, there is the occasional guy who is comfortable in pink or purple.  But most men I know will only wear a limited number of colors.  You can even see it reflected in FIM itself.  Most of the male characters are white/grey/brown/blue with the occasional red or orange thrown in.  Even on a female oriented show about brightly colored ponies, the boys are very limited in color.

3) Conflict resolution-  women are seen as being stronger on the interpersonal front.  It seems that any story line that can be resolved by "getting to know yourself" or "talk it out and hug" is deemed feminine.  Stereotypically, if two males are in a disagreement, they fight it out, sometimes physically, and then slap each others back to make up.  In addition, again stereotypically, guys would rather fight an outside enemy than sit and discuss their feelings.  As a result, a storyline with villains would be more stereotypically masculine than a storyline with no discernable villain or something to "fight."

These are just my initial thoughts,  I'm sure this kind of discussion could go on, and on, and on.....

[LadyMoondancer]

Also the presence of songs.  Although some "gender neutral" shows like Phineas & Ferb now have song sequences, songs in Saturday morning cartoons are definitely associated with "girls programming".  Especially in the 80s.  If it had songs and it was for girls.  (Except for animated MOVIES like Disney flicks.  Go figure, right?)

I suggest you track down the book "Sold Separately" from Amazon, it analyzes the differences in how girls' programming and advertisements differed from boys' programming and advertisements.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


The book was written in the early 90s, so it doesn't have anything super recent in it, but it is interesting and does analyze the plots of two "MLP & Friends" shows.

[Galactica]

If you mean by "girly" that the show appeals to girls-  I would say that that the fact that all of the main characters are females- (in both the old show and the new) suggests that the show was aimed at girls.   It is after all essentially a commercial to sell pony toys- which prior to FiM, were primarily purchased by and for little girls.  (Not saying I agree with what was going on, just stating the obvious).   

I loved it when boys started buying ponies and watching the show, thinking that this would lead to a more widespread acceptance of boys who would rather play with ponies and strawberry shortcake dolls (say), than more traditionally "male" pastimes or toys.   

I absolutely love and adore families that don't try to shove gender norms down their kids throats (be they boy or girl).

 

[Sunset]

Also the presence of songs.  Although some "gender neutral" shows like Phineas & Ferb now have song sequences, songs in Saturday morning cartoons are definitely associated with "girls programming".  Especially in the 80s.  If it had songs and it was for girls.  (Except for animated MOVIES like Disney flicks.  Go figure, right?)

I suggest you track down the book "Sold Separately" from Amazon, it analyzes the differences in how girls' programming and advertisements differed from boys' programming and advertisements.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

*nods* This is a very good point.  And you will notice that Disney in the past couple of decades does heavily lean   towards girly/princess and that the characters most often actually sing the songs.  On the other hand, Pixar, both before and after being acquired by Disney, leans to the masculine.  Songs are fewer and usually the character does not actually sing the song so much as the song is played over the action.

[Fransponies]

I thought I read somewhere that more men are color blind because they have a Y chromosome. My dad can't tell the difference between red and green. At traffic lights, he has to go by where the light is, rather than what color it is. So perhaps many men just don't appreciate the wide range of colors that many women do. Also, there seem to be a lot of bows and pink. Stereotypically bows and pink are linked to girls. For instance if you saw a little girl in a store with a pink bow in her hair, no one would think much of it. But if a little boy was wearing a pink bow, there would be people looking at him like he was odd. I don't personally agree with that kind of attitude, but I do see a lot of it sadly. I agree with what was said above about the brushable hair as well.

[LadyMoondancer]

Kind of makes me wonder what the G1 Transformers would have sung about, if the writers had followed the "one song per segment" rule like they did with G1 MLP. 

"That Megatron, he's just so mean!
But his demise has been foreseen,
And I instead will rule supreme,
Me, Starscreeeeeeam!"

[Sunset]

Kind of makes me wonder what the G1 Transformers would have sung about, if the writers had followed the "one song per segment" rule like they did with G1 MLP. 

"That Megatron, he's just so mean!
But his demise has been foreseen,
And I instead will rule supreme,
Me, Starscreeeeeeam!"

 
I can totally hear this being rocked out to a heavy metal tune!

[ValeofSpring]

I think it's great that you don't really see gender when you look at MLP or other toys--I'd try to stay just the way you are!

Definitely everything that has been said here.  I think colors are #1.  If you look at the My Pretty Pony, I can see that being a toy that could have been marketed to boys, though it was exclusively marketed to girls.  I agree that "boy toys" don't involve grooming, but a gender-neutral toy that could be marketed for boys or girls could I imagine involve some brushable hair.  "Brushability" definitely makes toys more in the "girl" camp (sadly--who couldn't love the soothing feeling of brushing hair?) but a pink Cotton Candy w/ plastic molded hair seems "girlier" to me than a brown Cotton Candy w/ brushable hair.

[Star Spark]

I find it funny that people find G1 more "girly", especially Rescue from Midnight Castle, which had distinctly non-cuddly dragons and a demon-centaur with Victor Caroli's menacing voice- it seems intended to entertain boys as much as girls, though the product it was promoting was meant primarily for girls. Even the regular show was more "high fantasy", with the ponies exploring unknown places and coming up against monsters, witches, sorcerers and all sorts of other creatures- stuff just as comfortable in a boys' show as it is a girls' one. Personally, I liked it, but I also liked "boy" shows like Transformers and G.I. Joe, and to this day am still disappointed that the planned Transformers/G.I. Joe cameos never happened in the '80s MLP movie (thus tying the ponies into the interconnected universe of Hasbro cartoons), so I'm not a very good judge of what makes something "girly", but I don't find G1 any more so than G4- it's just an '80s show that was tied down by stricter rules. 
   

[shabbychicdee]

what makes ponies girly for me is my displays, its how i display my collection, i display them with girly things. so in a nut shell it can be boyish for others whom want them to be its our own perception, each to there own i reckon
everything is gender neutral for my 2 kids (boy and girl) at the moment till they decide how they want things
how ever if i had a transformer collection which i would love but can not afford G1 TF right now, it wouldn't be a girly display

[Stormrave]

This is an interesting topic for me.  When I was very young, although I was female, I didn't like fashion dolls or baby dolls.  I liked Hot Wheels, tractors, airplanes, and stuffed animals.  This was a source of worry to my grandmother who wanted me to play with "girls' toys" but my parents didn't mind.

I loved My Little Pony the second I saw them.  I didn't find anything too overly feminine/girly about toy ponies.

Bonnie Zacherle has mentioned that she originally created My Little Pony to be a toy for children of either gender.

Now, I note that even as a kid I didn't like a lot of the MLP marketing.  The "My LIttle Pony Mommy" commercials.  I was never interested in being a mommy to my ponies, or in "nurturing" type play.  I wanted my ponies to be horses, not avatars of humans.  That being said, I did do fashion shows with pony wear, though it was my friends who were more interested in styling the ponies' hair (I liked using my ponies to act out grand adventures, my most common plot being a war against the dragons.)   Over time I noticed ponies becoming more fixated on hair play/wedding play/princesses than they were at the beginning, when they lived in a stable and wore saddles and bridles.  So the kind of play ponies were advertised for became more feminine over time.

There's also the fact that boy ponies were not introduced until considerably later in the line and never in the numbers as girl ponies.  I played ponies with a male friend and I remember how happy he was when I finally got some boy ponies.  The weird thing was I played GI Joes with him too, and the Joes had a female character right from the start of the 80s 3 3/4" toyline (Scarlett).

So I would say in modern times ponies are considered girls' toys because:  30 years of marketing to girls,  the important role of fashion and hair play in pony sales (Hasbro insisted FiM have a fashion-conscious character, to support their fashion play toys, and Lauren Faust did her best with the concept to make Rarity a designer rather than just a shopaholic), the colour palette of pinks and purples designed to appeal to girls, the fact that the main characters are all female. 

I am honestly surprised we as a culture have not grown past this.  I collect MLP and Transformers.  I have loved MLP and Transformers my whole life.  Oddly, my male friends would play MLP with me, but my female friends wouldn't play Transformers with me. 

Should I ever have children, I am going to be like my parents, and if my daughter wants Hot Wheels and my son wants Barbie, I'm okay with that.

EDIT:  That Transformers song is solid gold.  ROFL!!!

[Star Spark]

Yeah, I was never into fashion or princesses, either, and since I didn't actually know the names or backstories for many of my childhood ponies I naturally just assumed some were male (and when I learned they were ALL female, was very confused.) Fortunately, I had girl friends who would rather act out contemporary politics with ponies than do fashion shows or the like- I don't know where those girls are now, but I'm sure they grew up to be awesome.

Your observation that MLP toys took on more "girlish" interests is interesting; I'm of the opinion that marketing toward girls in general has become even more narrow and stereotypical over time. Even the decisions in the FiM toyline are vexing: the insistence on princesses instead of queens, the huge emphasis on fashion playsets, even making the early Celestia toys pink because "that's what girls like" (of course it's all they like when everything is pink!)- it makes me glad that during my formative years MLP was just a bunch of funky colored horses. Or maybe I've just gotten more jaded as I've grown.