Are ponies born with cutie marks? (G1)

[NoPonySpecial]

I actually like G4's method better, too, MJNSeifer. (You have to stop being so worried about expressing your opinions! )

You guys, can I talk about my headcanon for a bit? It's long, I was going to write a quite response to explain my theory, but it kind of turned into an essay. I guess I put more thought into this than I had realized!

My headcanon for G4 is that a pony has the option to change their name after getting a cutie mark, to make sure they are permanently associated with their talent/speciality/destiny in the minds of other ponies. It could be a semi-common coming of age tradition.

My giant essay:

Spoiler

I figure that changing one's name to match one's symbol would mostly be done by ponies that run a business. A name that exactly matches a cutie mark would be more convenient, and more memorable for other ponies. It would be better advertising for a pony to associate, say, cupcakes, with a pony named "Cupcake" rather than a pony named Dazzle Twinkle or something.

This ties in with my other headcanon that ponies have a written language that often prefers pictorial communication for simple ideas. For instance, a bakery's sign might just have a picture of a cupcake instead of the word"Bakery." If ponies referred to it as the "Cupcake" Bakery, it might then be beneficial for the head baker to be named "Cupcake" as well. The hypothetical shop would then be soon known as "Cupcake'S Bakery." If Cupcake had to take out a loan specifically for business purposes, she could sign the forms with a special stamp that matches her symbol, effectively tying both her and her business together in the eyes of the bank.

Ponies don't strictly have to having matching symbol and name for business, however. For some ponies, it could be a pride thing. They could be so happy with their talent or destiny that they wish to be forever known by it. This is simple enough. I find it more interesting to apply this to Diamond Tiara.

Diamond Tiara has been characterized as having excessive pride in her cutie mark. She constantly mocks the CMC for not having theirs. But let's not forget: she herself was fairly late in getting her cutie mark, too. She had only just gotten it before the events of Call of the Cutie, then immediately mocks Applebloom and Twist not having them. After Twist got hers, she more or less ceased to become DT's target (or maybe we just didn't see it because Twist is not a main character, but for this argument I'm assuming the CMC were her main targets.) She was really caught up on the whole "Blank Flank" thing.

One could argue that she was just being a bully and it really didn't have anything to do with pride in her cutie mark. In earlier seasons I would have said the same thing, but we know more about her now. Having a cutie mark meant she was that much closer to being a pony who could please her parents, and get the destiny she desired. Of course, it turned out she was harboring deep insecurities because she did not really know what her cutie mark meant. If she resorted to bullying to tamp down those feelings, then it isn't a jump to assume that she would change her name as well. Calling her by her name and her cutie mark at the same time reminds other that she does indeed have a destiny, and a glamorous one at that. It would be the perfect way to assert herself to others and boost her confidence.

All that said, I do still theorize that there is some small bit of magic that influences the name the parents chose, especially for ponies with important destinies. It's an exceptionally subtle magic, though. It is magic that might cause a parent to name their child "Fluttershy," but not "Butterflies." When a symbol matches a name exactly, this is when I apply the theory of name changing.

On Fluttershy:
She got her cutie mark for being good with animals, not something strictly butterfly-related. If she had been named, say, "Booboo Bear" (just work with me here!) she may have gotten a bear-related cutie mark. The butterflies really better fit her personality overall. It's not a stretch to imagine her parents choosing a name that rhymes with "butterfly" because she was a gentle and delicate foal. Then her cutie mark became butterflies over some other animal, and butterflies were the very animal that saved her that day. I think this is the "magic" at play.

Scootaloo is another example. I suppose an infant Scootaloo might have found herself on a scooter at some point; crazier things have happened! But it does seem a little unlikely, as infant-rearing in G4 is shown to be very similar to our real life. So why name her Scootaloo? We know for a fact she did not change her name after getting her cutie mark, as she was named that from the beginning. Plus, we have no evidence for her being named that except for her being good at scootering. (Is that a word?) Or perhaps she scooted around a lot as a baby. Her symbol didn't end up being a scooter, but her love for the toy and having "scoot" in her name sure fit a little too perfectly, which may also support my magic theory.

A bit about Twist, but the evidence is NOT canon, so I put it in spoilers:

Spoiler

Twist may not be a pony with an "important" destiny as far as the show is concerned, but the magic still touched her a bit. Non-canonically, her name was ret-conned by Amy Keating Rodgers to be dance related. Her mom was conceived to be named "Shimmy Shake," also a dance. (I have a source, but it was in an interview for Equestria Daily, and we cannot link to that site.) If we go by that, and assume that Twist was named for a dance, but her candy-related cutie mark also showed a candy that is made with a Twisting motion. The dance and the candy are unrelated, but brought together through a very convenient name!

[Ninox]

Something which I don't see brought up very often is that Ember isn't the only G1 pony without a symbol -- the Merry-Go-Round, Ballerina and Secret Surprise ponies (most of which are adults) don't have any either (unless you consider their "wardrobe" to be their symbol).

(I actually also had the same idea that baby ponies' symbols and names would change as they got older, a bit like how people in some cultures have different names as babies, children, adults and seniors that reflect who they are.)

[sd_dreamcrystal]

I'll be honest, as a kid I never ever linked the symbols to talents or really special abilities (except for Gusty and Fizzy since those two I vividly recall one of the G1 episodes/movies that had Gusty call wind and Fizzy creating magical bubbles during a song to trick one of the witches ).

I think this thinking was due to ponies having names more related to their symbols, think about it. Dancing Butterflies I always felt got her name due to her butterfly symbol (though recently I did read her card information on My Little Wiki but still I will more or less link G1 symbols with G1 names)

[NigheanRuadh]

Pace Cowboys:  "New York City?"

"That really chaps my hide."

Couldn't resist.   

[zombienixon]

Maybe all the babies with "baby-ish" symbols go on to work in daycares. 

The "make a baby look just like mom" was a pretty brilliant marketing tactic.  I remember flipping OUT when Moondancer, my favorite pony, had a baby pony released.  My mom ended up getting her for me as a "prize" for finishing swimming lessons.

At the time I didn't question at all why she looked like a tiny clone of mom.  Kid logic!

I never thought of the Baby ponies as the adult versions' children, but as young versions of the adults. I forgot they were supposed to be their actual children.

I wish they'd do this with G4, and make filly versions of the Mane 6 and Princesses.

[Leave a Whisper]

I'll be honest, as a kid I never ever linked the symbols to talents or really special abilities (except for Gusty and Fizzy since those two I vividly recall one of the G1 episodes/movies that had Gusty call wind and Fizzy creating magical bubbles during a song to trick one of the witches ).

I think this thinking was due to ponies having names more related to their symbols, think about it. Dancing Butterflies I always felt got her name due to her butterfly symbol (though recently I did read her card information on My Little Wiki but still I will more or less link G1 symbols with G1 names)

Same here. The symbols were originally meant to help identify ponies.

[Al-1701]

At the time I didn't question at all why she looked like a tiny clone of mom.  Kid logic!

Then the Brits told us they come from a magic mirror.

[ValeofSpring]

When my sister and I played with our ponies, we thought it was too embarrassing and made no sense that a pony should be born with a babyish symbol -- say, a bottle or a baby rattle -- and then have to grow up and keep that humiliating symbol, so we would pretend that as they grew into slightly older baby ponies they got a more mature symbol which they then kept all their lives.

In all my years of thinking so many many thoughts about MLP I can say I never thought about what adult Cuddles or Tiddley-Winks would look like or how sad it would be to be an adult pony w/ a rattle or bib symbol.

Not to venture off topic but I have often thought it was strange that while Hasbro made most of the first baby ponies mini-versions of adult ponies, they didn't do that with sea ponies. Surf Rider certainly looks like Sealight, but she's not Baby Sealight. Hmmmmm . . .

[StillandSilent]

Our opinion was that the babies would get more mature symbols as adults.  Milkweed and Tumbleweed would grow from little rocking horses to rearing stallions and bucking broncos.  Jabber and Jebber would go from tops to tornados and whirlpools.  The colors would deepen and get less babyish too.

Also, newborn twins were always one male, one female.  It would have been just impossible to have them be the same gender. 

We also played that Baby Moondancer was Moondancer as a child, not Moondancer's filly.

[Ponyfan]

I think Ember was the very first baby pony? I also agree with Haruna that they seemd to be going for the "your symbol appears when you discover your special talent" but by the time Hasbro produced the other Baby Ponies they decided they were born with a symbol. I wish Hasbro would have remembered Ember and showed what her symbol was and her talent.


Ponyfan

There's a version of Ember with a star as her symbol.  She doesn't appear to have a backcard story, so there's no real clue as to what it could mean, if you want symbols/cutie marks to have meaning.  I don't think the storytape mentions anything about it, but it's been a while since I heard it (on YouTube).

http://www.mylittlewiki.org/wiki/Ember%27s_Dream

But is Ember's Dream Ember supposed to be the same same Ember as thesymbol-less one that was released in 3 colors?  didn't really think  that much during my childhood how  the symbols were related to the ponies. I was basing my post off of Twilight and Ember's conversation in Rescue from Midnight Castle.

Ponyfan

[LadyMoondancer]

Ember is a weird case in that she was released in three different colors (blue, pink with purple hair, and purple with pink hair) and then AGAIN in all purple.  Assuming that star-Ember is the same pony as the other three.

They also put a big picture of Baby Blossom on her card (for the star version), maybe because Baby Blossom, too, is purple.

[Lore-Lei]

My headcanon is that you're overthinking it, silly.

[Taffeta]

I noticed the newborn and baby ponies already have cutie marks, are they born with it?

Sorry, but I have to say it. G1 ponies don't have cutie marks, they have symbols, or, in hasbro's official terms, rump markings. Cutie mark belongs to G3 and G4. Not to G1.

Onto the main subject, some lines of thought here.

#1 It depends on how ponies are considered to be born. Take for example the My Little Pony UK comic. In issue 1 is the infamous story of baby ponies coming from the Magic Mirror. Later in the sequence, the original Newborn Twins first come about with a mix of Baby Lucky and co's drawings and baby Lucky's Happy Go lucky Friday 13th magic bringing them to life. So ponies do not have to be "born" in Ponyland, and it makes sense that, if they are created from magic, they might have particular features at that point of creation.

#2 BORN ponies. The only ponies we can say for sure are "born" are the twins that come with Surprise Twins Pony (my sister calls them Itsy and Bitsy). They are officially 'born' and they do not have symbols. That would make the case that actually born ponies (as opposed to magically created ones) are not born with symbols.

#3 In response to names and types of symbols, this makes me think of mediaeval Japanese culture and the trend of changing names as individuals reached certain points in their life. For example, there's a famous warrior, Yoshitsune, and that is how everyone knows him, but he was called Ushiwakamaru as a small child, then Shanaou I believe as an adolescent, then he had his coming of age ceremony in which he was given the name Yoshitsune, and then, at the end of his life, I believe he had changed his name again because the Regent's name was Yoshitsune and it was a mark of deference to do that. So people's identities were fluid. I see Baby Ponies in a similar vein. Who's to say that symbol and name stay the same throughout a pony's lifespan?

#4 Alternatively, baby ponies are actually past versions of the adult ponies in some kind of weird ponyland timewarp. Maybe that explains coming through the magic mirror; they're actually coming through a time gate from the past into the present, where they already exist as adults.

As for why 3/4 Embers have no symbol, I think that is just one of those genetic variations. Rainbow Magic (RC Ringlet) also has no symbol. She has stars beneath her wing and her wings are rainbow coloured, but nothing that Hasbro could rightly term a "rump marking". Pocket Friends ponies also have symbols on one side, but not on both. There are variations in this style across the G1 line, which would be in keeping with the variations that occur in the real world with different types of person and their particular features.

[Harabel]

I'll be honest, as a kid I never ever linked the symbols to talents or really special abilities (except for Gusty and Fizzy since those two I vividly recall one of the G1 episodes/movies that had Gusty call wind and Fizzy creating magical bubbles during a song to trick one of the witches ).

I think this thinking was due to ponies having names more related to their symbols, think about it. Dancing Butterflies I always felt got her name due to her butterfly symbol (though recently I did read her card information on My Little Wiki but still I will more or less link G1 symbols with G1 names)

Same here and as a child there were some ponies that I couldn't connect the symbol with the name because I didn't understand what they were, in the tv episodes  !

I noticed the newborn and baby ponies already have cutie marks, are they born with it?

Sorry, but I have to say it. G1 ponies don't have cutie marks, they have symbols, or, in hasbro's official terms, rump markings. Cutie mark belongs to G3 and G4. Not to G1.

Onto the main subject, some lines of thought here.

#1 It depends on how ponies are considered to be born. Take for example the My Little Pony UK comic. In issue 1 is the infamous story of baby ponies coming from the Magic Mirror. Later in the sequence, the original Newborn Twins first come about with a mix of Baby Lucky and co's drawings and baby Lucky's Happy Go lucky Friday 13th magic bringing them to life. So ponies do not have to be "born" in Ponyland, and it makes sense that, if they are created from magic, they might have particular features at that point of creation.

#2 BORN ponies. The only ponies we can say for sure are "born" are the twins that come with Surprise Twins Pony (my sister calls them Itsy and Bitsy). They are officially 'born' and they do not have symbols. That would make the case that actually born ponies (as opposed to magically created ones) are not born with symbols.

#3 In response to names and types of symbols, this makes me think of mediaeval Japanese culture and the trend of changing names as individuals reached certain points in their life. For example, there's a famous warrior, Yoshitsune, and that is how everyone knows him, but he was called Ushiwakamaru as a small child, then Shanaou I believe as an adolescent, then he had his coming of age ceremony in which he was given the name Yoshitsune, and then, at the end of his life, I believe he had changed his name again because the Regent's name was Yoshitsune and it was a mark of deference to do that. So people's identities were fluid. I see Baby Ponies in a similar vein. Who's to say that symbol and name stay the same throughout a pony's lifespan?

#4 Alternatively, baby ponies are actually past versions of the adult ponies in some kind of weird ponyland timewarp. Maybe that explains coming through the magic mirror; they're actually coming through a time gate from the past into the present, where they already exist as adults.

As for why 3/4 Embers have no symbol, I think that is just one of those genetic variations. Rainbow Magic (RC Ringlet) also has no symbol. She has stars beneath her wing and her wings are rainbow coloured, but nothing that Hasbro could rightly term a "rump marking". Pocket Friends ponies also have symbols on one side, but not on both. There are variations in this style across the G1 line, which would be in keeping with the variations that occur in the real world with different types of person and their particular features.

I didn't know all this theory about the magic mirror and it really makes sense!

[BlushingBlue]

We also played that Baby Moondancer was Moondancer as a child, not Moondancer's filly.

This was my take on it when I was a kid too. When I first saw Baby Cotton Candy and company in the toy store, I thought it was just like the Muppet Babies, where it was still the same original character but as a baby. I only saw the occasional episode of the cartoon after it was well into syndication, and I never really paid that much attention to it. Initially, I assumed that certain ponies (like Lickety Split in the MLP Movie) were babies on the TV show for whatever reason, but didn't have a "mom" per se. I was pretty shocked when I first caught an episode with an identical mom and baby in it -- pretty sure it was the Heart Throbs in the Knight Shade story -- and I tried to rationalize that Adult Heart Throb was so worried about Baby Heart Throb because if she died as a baby that would retroactively erase her from existence. I may have been influenced by watching Back to the Future too many times.


The G4 take on "getting your cutie mark" doesn't sit quite right with me. It's a cute concept on the surface, but by making it such a big deal in the show, it unintentionally raises a lot of existential questions. For example: What if Donut Joe was adopted as a baby by the McColt clan and never saw a doughnut in his life? If cutie marks are "destined", would his family always wonder what was up with that weird pink lug nut? If cutie marks are"discovered", would he remain forever a blank flank because he never found his true calling? It seems cruel to burden someone with a symbol of a fate they have no hope of achieving or even understanding, and even worse to imply that they have no noteworthy traits at all. Maybe nurture would triumph over nature, and he would get a constructicon cutie mark instead. But then who can say that a doughnut cutie mark is even what he's supposed to have in the first place? If cutie marks are malleable, then they're not actually all that insightful. They're just a picture of whatever you happen to be really into when you're twelve, which isn't a very good rubric for a future career, otherwise you'd see a lot of people getting PhDs in pokemon training.