The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Al-1701 on June 10, 2015, 11:01:37 AM
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There has always been this stigma attached to My Little Pony as being a shining example of "girly = bad". I've seen people use it as a negative comparison to other things. Interest in MLP is shown as a sign of a problem in boys and something girls have to get over. Needless to say, MLP has been the butt of many a cruel joke. Even Lauren Faust, the supposed Matron Saint of Ponies, lumped the original cartoon (which she barely watched btw) on the heap of "tea parties and beating the villain by crying" despite that never happening.
The question is, why? Why is it My Little Pony that gets the bad rap? It wasn't the girliest thing out there and there's nothing wrong with being the girliest thing out there. The television show was short-lived and not the best animated but that was because it was produced on a shoestring budget and while other shows made for Hasbro (that got the lion's share of their production budget) were imploding. I found the Transformers movie more unwatchable than the My Little Pony movie because I could at least tell what was going on in the MLP movie even if I didn't like it.
The answer I can think of is My Little Pony was successful. It stayed on American store shelves for a decade and even longer in Europe. It's a brand as instantly recognizable as Barbie, and got there through the jungle of the 1980's. That made it an easy target because it had the profile but not the history. Many other brands are probably more guilty of the things My Little Pony is accused of, but too obscure to get people to notice.
So, why do you think My Little Pony has been stuck with this stigma?
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From my personal experience, I would say that Barbie and Bratz get a lot more flack than MLP, but that's besides the point.
Without getting into a long-winded rant, I will say this: sexism. For as long as society sees women in a negative light, people will see so-called 'girly' things like MLP as bad things.
If you ask any boy why they don't like MLP, most of them will say 'because it's for girls!'. Women are also guilty of seeing 'feminine' things as something to be ridiculed.
So, in conclusion, people aren't ridiculing MLP simply because they dislike plastic ponies -- they hate and ridicule the female archetype without understanding what that archetype is, or why they hate it so.
When you live in a world where 'girl' is an insult, girls' toys are going to be seen as a bad thing.
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I'm sorry i don't agree. Transformers the movie was amazing!!! :P
p.s. completely agree with the above! Mop the bunny hit the nail on the head there. I showed a 7 year old boy my collection and an episode of the cartoon. He chose Sunlight as his favorite thinking it was Rainbow Dash. She's the most stereotypically masculine of the 6 :huh:
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From my personal experience, I would say that Barbie and Bratz get a lot more flack than MLP, but that's besides the point.
Without getting into a long-winded rant, I will say this: sexism. For as long as society sees women in a negative light, people will see so-called 'girly' things like MLP as bad things.
If you ask any boy why they don't like MLP, most of them will say 'because it's for girls!'. Women are also guilty of seeing 'feminine' things as something to be ridiculed.
So, in conclusion, people aren't ridiculing MLP simply because they dislike plastic ponies -- they hate and ridicule the female archetype without understanding what that archetype is, or why they hate it so.
When you live in a world where 'girl' is an insult, girls' toys are going to be seen as a bad thing.
Seconded.
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I do think it is as simple mopthebunny says. I dont think its MLP specifically and I dont think the brand suffers any more eye rolling or jokes at its expense than any other "girly" toy line. The phrase "girly" is typically used negatively (although thankfully it does not suffer as much as it perhaps did a couple of decades ago) and therefore anything seen as innately "girly" is equally as effected.
So stereotyping and sexism...thats about it.
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I don't really see MLP as having a bad rap. When most non-collectors learn I collect they say, "I had hundreds of those! How cool!" and then we spend a while talking about different characters and I help identify old favorites. My boyfriend doesn't collect MLP but he's got more Breyer horses are other horse figurines than I do. Everybody loves horses and ponies!
:D
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Human traits are divided into 2 groups: masculine and feminine. Masculine traits tend to be strength, leadership, thinking, independence, and problem-solving. Traits like compassion, empathy, communication, listening, and cooperation are often considered "feminine." Feminine traits are consistently devalued and seen as weaknesses while masculine traits are portrayed as more desirable. This causes men to devalue anything feminine and women to devalue themselves and each other. People need to realize that HUMAN traits are neither masculine nor feminine and all of these traits are essential in the healthy running of a society.
So, yes. It has very little to do with MLP. It has very much to do with girls and women being portrayed as weaker (both physically and mentally if you buy into many of the cultural messages). This is what a lot of feminists are trying to get people to understand. However, many feminists are being verbally attacked and ridiculed. Many people (including women!) don't understand what the feminist movement is really about which I find very discouraging. *disclaimer- I do realize there are some militant feminists that are a bit extreme in their views and those aren't the people I'm talking about here.
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Sexism is definitely at the core. However, when a generic girly thing needs to thrown up for ridicule, it seems like My Little Pony is often what is put up there.
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Yeah- it is just sexism. -_- The same reason why women attorneys only make up 2% of the shareholder/leadership positions, and why women's health is so under researched and under valued, and why women across the board do not get promoted or paid the same as men, I guess i could go on all day. :cry:
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This is a really interesting discussion point. I found myself thinking back to when I was a child, and the way in which MLP was perceived then. I went to a very small village school where pretty much all the girls (and some of the boys, younger ones) had MLP. I remember the other boys singing the "my little pony skinny and bony" refrain, and I remember MLP being banned by my (evil) head teacher because the boys kept throwing them on the roof (still wondering how that was our fault >_<)
But, I was not a girly girl. I loathed pink till I became an adult and realised it was no longer a little girl stigma hanging over me. My friends and I, our pony games consisted of zombie worlds and rescuing princesses from monsters...and the boys who threw the ponies on the roof came to regret it because we regrouped, gathered our unicorn ponies and treated them to what we called "pony chase", which consisted of chasing them around the playground and then prodding them with the unicorn ponies. Fizzy was the best for this! We played combination games of My Little Pony/Ghostbusters and My Little Pony/TMNT, as well as countless other weird and wonderful things.
As a kid for me the stigma was Barbie. I hated her with a passion because all the dolls in the stores where I was here in the UK were in sickly pink boxes with pink clothing and all of them without exception were fair skinned, blond haired and vapid looking in terms of expression. As a kid all I wanted was some variety. I hated Megan as well, for the same reasons. What was with blond dolls and pink outfits, anyway? So I never had Megan and Sundance and the one Barbie I did have lost all her accessories to my pony collection.
I don't think of MLP = girly. On the contrary, as a kid, they allowed me to be NOT girly, because they were not the stereotypical dolls. My ponies didn't have teaparties though. They got kidnapped by monsters or abseiled out of the window on ribbons and shoelaces (true story).
As a teenager, I felt very self-conscious that I was still collecting. I didn't talk about it at school at all, and hid them. If we went carbooting, I put it on my sister that we were collecting for her. She didn't mind. She loved ponies too - still does (as of yesterday she was sending me texts about a pony mug she'd found in order to make me jealous, and last time she was here she abducted Sky Rocket, so yeah, she';s not grown up either). I think then, in the 1990s, it was expected to grow out of the toys. But I still played with them at school till I was 11 and nobody cared particularly.
As a child, I didn't have a lot of influence from the TV show. I had a grand total of 4 episodes on vhs - Ice Cream Wars, Revolt of PE, Sweet Stuff and the Treasure Hunt and the Wouldbe Dragon Slayer. I watched them a lot, but to me they had a lot of "unreal" ponies in (ie ponies not sold in the UK, like Paradise, Truly, Cupcake, Scoops...) or the "wrong names" (ie Sweet Stuff who was called Sweetie in the UK) so with my kid logic I kinda dismissed them in favour of the comic interpretations whenever it was a clash. In the mid 1990s, Sky 1 aired all the MLP eps, including MLP tales and my sister's best friend leant her the videos she had recorded of those episodes. Most of these I saw then for the first time. I would have been about 14 I think, so I saw them with an older eye, rather than a small kid's eye.
I still prioritise the comics over all other characterisation, because of the range of ponies covered and the fact they were the principal influence on me as a child, but my overwhelming impression of the G1 cartoon series is that there are a few silly episodes and a lot of very dark episodes and episodes with hidden messages (don't take drugs, don't take things from strangers, don't judge on appearances...etc etc). You have shadows being stolen, youth being sucked out, ponies being enslaved, imprisoned in dark cities, the world dying of drought, a beautiful legend of the first unicorn in the Golden Horseshoes and such like. I don't really like MLP the Movie and never did (except the smooze), but there are a lot of eps among the early ones I do like. MLP Tales is more girly, but in general, I don't see any of the G1 episodes as being overtly girly. As a kid I also watched Heman, Shera, Thundercats, Transformers, etc. MLP just fit into that slot.
It's not just back then, though. My best friend was telling me recently how she had found a Tootsie at a carboot sale and had bought it for her niece (who is about 4 now I think). This girl is a super-tomboy, but she loves Tootsie (who she calls Lollipop) and was very disappointed she wasn't in the new cartoon show. Now my friend is looking for other common G1 ponies at carboot sales so Tootsie has friends. I find it interesting because Tootsie is also not pink and traditionally "girly" colours, and I remember the brother of a friend of mine at school who had one and took her around with him everywhere. He was a boy, but there was never a stigma about it (because Tootsie wasn't pink, perhaps?)
Based on all of that, I think that this is a stigma that associates more to G4 and maybe G3 than one that has always been in place (at least in my experience, different places may have different experiences).
In more recent years, I feel MLP has become a "brand" and it is somewhat "cult" or "cool". I don't actually know how I feel about this, though I do love the merchandise for G1 ponies that it has created. I deal now with a lot of students, girls and boys at the college I currently work at that love G4 and aren't afraid to say so.These kids are 16-19 years old and it's ok for them to be "bronies", although there are still kids who are not into it and who dismiss it.
I have watched Friendship is Magic, and I don't hate it, but it doesn't attract me to watch it obsessively, nor am I really attracted to the characters (although I find Rarity funny). I think the reason is that MLP is a lot more girly than the old MLP used to be (not that that's at all a bad thing, but just my opinion, and not to my taste). There are more girly things involved in the storylines I've seen - parties, fashion,etc come up a lot, which they don't really for the original MLPs in G1 (maybe MLP tales). I don't know if this is responding to the demographic, or if it's Hasbro's assumption that it's what girls want (but it is working, so it must be the right mix). However the mass explosion of popularity of G4 (which I confess, as a pony fan I still don't understand xD) is bound to bring with it some kind of reaction.
I think MLP may have more stigma now than it ever did in the past, and now it has the history. So maybe the history itself makes it something to be stigmatised over? I don't know. Who knows? If it's being talked about, it means it has a presence - sometimes it's better to be loved and hated than forgotten and lost. But it might simply be that G4 crosses traditional boundaries and people are noticing it more - because a lot of adult males are getting interested in MLP, not just a few young boys, and that perhaps messes with the "perceived notion" of who should love MLP.
But then two of my closest MLP community friends from years back (though sadly no longer in the community I don't think) were male, so there always have been male MLP fans. I guess it's just become a bigger talking point, which is why it's excited so much attention.
As for Lauren Faust, I honestly find her viewpoint irrelevant to whether MLP is or isn't "seen as" anything. She's heavily involved in G4, but not in anything earlier than that - and as a fan of MLP, she's entitled to her view as any of us are without it being held up as an example of how anyone else is meant to think. If people are just copying what she said and not thinking about it themselves, more fool them.
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From my personal experience, I would say that Barbie and Bratz get a lot more flack than MLP, but that's besides the point.
Without getting into a long-winded rant, I will say this: sexism. For as long as society sees women in a negative light, people will see so-called 'girly' things like MLP as bad things.
If you ask any boy why they don't like MLP, most of them will say 'because it's for girls!'. Women are also guilty of seeing 'feminine' things as something to be ridiculed.
So, in conclusion, people aren't ridiculing MLP simply because they dislike plastic ponies -- they hate and ridicule the female archetype without understanding what that archetype is, or why they hate it so.
When you live in a world where 'girl' is an insult, girls' toys are going to be seen as a bad thing.
I couldn't agree more with this, as depressing as it is. Even women make fun of a man for being feminine and therefore are insulting their own femininity.
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I have not read or experienced any negativity about ponies from either gender. Most people I have talked pony with have fond memories of them (even boys who played with their sister's ponies). There is no such thing as a girl or boy toy in my house. I say all toys were meant to be played with by kids of all ages and gender. If it helps them to use their imagination I do not care what sex it was intended for. My son has MLP and a dollhouse. My daughter has tools and dinosaurs and a dump truck :)
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I'm gonna second the sexism comment, yep! I don't think there's anything explicitly 'bad' about MLP that people latch onto; it's just something that a lot of girls grew up with and enjoyed, and it's been a popular girl-marketed toy line for a loooong time. Hence, "deserving" of sexist mockery.
I have to roll my eyes at anyone who mocks G1/G3 while praising G4 for it's "gender neutrality" or whatever. You DO realize that G1 was more action-packed than G4, right? :P
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Needless to say, MLP has been the butt of many a cruel joke. Even Lauren Faust, the supposed Matron Saint of Ponies(...)
And THIS is where all the problems come from, treating Lauren like some almighty deity that changed the word.
Other than that, as others said, stereotyping and sexism without doing reseach, mainly for the G3 era... even though G3 was also very clever in the beginning.
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I guess I don't see the big deal? I've only seen this issue come up since g4/bronies came about.
I grew up in the 80s and had a bunch of ponies. My brother even had 2! (baby racer and Tabby if you're curious) I had some he-man figures and ninja turtle, too. While we were perfectly aware which aisles these toys were sold in they were pretty much all played with together.
I collect G1s now bc they are my favorite line (and one only has so much room). Now this whole grown men avidly watching FiM is different and is admittedly odd to even to me. I've watched the show. It's ok. It's not THAT great. I'm frankly surprised how popular it is. I guess I should be happy bc it keeps mlp alive (...but no so thrilled with g4 brushables anyways).
I don't want to start anything I just want to express my opinion from a 80s kid/collector s pov.
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I guess I don't see the big deal? I've only seen this issue come up since g4/bronies came about.
I grew up in the 80s and had a bunch of ponies. My brother even had 2! (baby racer and Tabby if you're curious) I had some he-man figures and ninja turtle, too. While we were perfectly aware which aisles these toys were sold in they were pretty much all played with together.
I collect G1s now bc they are my favorite line (and one only has so much room). Now this whole grown men avidly watching FiM is different and is admittedly odd to even to me. I've watched the show. It's ok. It's not THAT great. I'm frankly surprised how popular it is. I guess I should be happy bc it keeps mlp alive (...but no so thrilled with g4 brushables anyways).
I don't want to start anything I just want to express my opinion from a 80s kid/collector s pov.
You hit the nail on the head madam. Agree with this from beginning to end.
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I'm going to agree a lot with the original post. I do think that in the past MLP has had a bit of a stigma attached to it. A lot of the refs to MLP i've seen in TV (before G4) were very negative. MLP seemed to be the go to brand when something was overly girly/feminine. One quote that always stays with me, though for the life in me right now i can't remember where from, was a character, upon seeing a pink room said 'it looks like a My Little Pony threw up in here'. Barbie and Bratz get negative attention mostly from the press and that is mostly down to body image. MLP doesn't have that issue given that they are horses, but i do think that there has always been some negativity attached to them.
I was never an overly girly girl. I loved my MLP's but i also loved football and looking through my garden for bugs. Yet the latter counted for very little when as soon as i mentioned i liked MLP as a child i'd be asked 'were you a very girly girl then?' The same response never seemed to occur to people that said they played with barbie as a child.
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I honestly don't see why MLP is viewed in a negative light or have any stigma attached to it. =/
I'm sorry i don't agree. Transformers the movie was amazing!!! :P
Ditto! I don't know how many times I have watched that movie while growing up, and I still enjoy watching it!
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There is also an element of society that pushes girls to grow up quickly. (Ya know so they can become sexually available for men) MLP has always been seen not just as a thing for girls but as a thing for very young girls. So it's not just because its "girly" but also because its "babyish".
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There is also an element of society that pushes girls to grow up quickly. (Ya know so they can become sexually available for men) MLP has always been seen not just as a thing for girls but as a thing for very young girls. So it's not just because its "girly" but also because its "babyish".
Very true, and I could rant all day about how messed up that is.
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There is also an element of society that pushes girls to grow up quickly. (Ya know so they can become sexually available for men) MLP has always been seen not just as a thing for girls but as a thing for very young girls. So it's not just because its "girly" but also because its "babyish".
I have to agree with this as well! Although I only think MLP has become synonymous with "little girls" because they aren't exactly toys that particularly have a more "mature" theme to them. I don't mean mature as in something bad or like PG13 or R-Rated or anything just more mature ideals or themes for the toys. Paying attention to fashion, doing your make-up/hair, Brain Surgeon Barbie, where as ponies are usually just simple little horses whose hair you brush. Sure you can style their hair or whatnot but they're still animal toys and I don't think as many people count grooming a unicorn in the same category as styling and dressing Barbie. Ponies are a bit more"innocent" than other girl's toys I suppose since they don't usually have some overarching theme for a doll that can teach traits that could mimic adulthood.
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From my personal experience, I would say that Barbie and Bratz get a lot more flack than MLP, but that's besides the point.
Without getting into a long-winded rant, I will say this: sexism. For as long as society sees women in a negative light, people will see so-called 'girly' things like MLP as bad things.
If you ask any boy why they don't like MLP, most of them will say 'because it's for girls!'. Women are also guilty of seeing 'feminine' things as something to be ridiculed.
So, in conclusion, people aren't ridiculing MLP simply because they dislike plastic ponies -- they hate and ridicule the female archetype without understanding what that archetype is, or why they hate it so.
When you live in a world where 'girl' is an insult, girls' toys are going to be seen as a bad thing.
You hit the nail right on the head.
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This is a really interesting discussion point. I found myself thinking back to when I was a child, and the way in which MLP was perceived then. I went to a very small village school where pretty much all the girls (and some of the boys, younger ones) had MLP. I remember the other boys singing the "my little pony skinny and bony" refrain, and I remember MLP being banned by my (evil) head teacher because the boys kept throwing them on the roof (still wondering how that was our fault >_<)
But, I was not a girly girl. I loathed pink till I became an adult and realised it was no longer a little girl stigma hanging over me. My friends and I, our pony games consisted of zombie worlds and rescuing princesses from monsters...and the boys who threw the ponies on the roof came to regret it because we regrouped, gathered our unicorn ponies and treated them to what we called "pony chase", which consisted of chasing them around the playground and then prodding them with the unicorn ponies. Fizzy was the best for this! We played combination games of My Little Pony/Ghostbusters and My Little Pony/TMNT, as well as countless other weird and wonderful things.
As a kid for me the stigma was Barbie. I hated her with a passion because all the dolls in the stores where I was here in the UK were in sickly pink boxes with pink clothing and all of them without exception were fair skinned, blond haired and vapid looking in terms of expression. As a kid all I wanted was some variety. I hated Megan as well, for the same reasons. What was with blond dolls and pink outfits, anyway? So I never had Megan and Sundance and the one Barbie I did have lost all her accessories to my pony collection.
I don't think of MLP = girly. On the contrary, as a kid, they allowed me to be NOT girly, because they were not the stereotypical dolls. My ponies didn't have teaparties though. They got kidnapped by monsters or abseiled out of the window on ribbons and shoelaces (true story).
This is pretty much my view and experience. I much preferred MLPs to Barbie as a kid because they were, for me, outside the mold of what was historical and classic for girls to play with. I didn't want baby dolls and I didn't want to practice being a housewife or bride with Barbie. Suddenly there was a toy and a show that was bold and adventurous. Megan was my hero! She did things, she went places and was bold and brave. My ponies went on adventures, made villages in the tall grass in the empty lot next to our house and fought to protect their world from invaders like GI Joe. I mixed them with TMNT and let them be mounts and allies of the Turtles as they rode swaths of destruction through their enemies.
As to the question of why MLP gets flack as a girly thing. I don't know why. I think this is really two issues here. The first is the inherent sexist value system of our society that values "manly" things over "girly" things as many have pointed out. So many examples of this- "Man up, Grow a pair, you *insert ANYTHING here* like a girl, etc... the list goes on. The second is the question of whether or not MLP is the brunt of anti-girl hate and if so, why. I think it depends on the personal experience of whoever you talk to. For me, MLP wasn't THE quintessential girl toy. That was Barbie. I mean, Barbie even has a song about her being a stereotypical girl trapped in a girl world. But other people may have different experiences and perspectives than me.
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from looking at the toys and the commericials for G1 I think it's how the commericals and toy accessories were marketed. I mean if it were just the ponies by themselves I can see boys and girls enjoying them, the I'M A MY LITTLE PONY MOMMY! commercials probably didn't help at all.
I mean when you put small horses with a ballet studio or a ballet slipper sweet shop people put 2 and 2 together :/
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Needless to say, MLP has been the butt of many a cruel joke. Even Lauren Faust, the supposed Matron Saint of Ponies(...)
And THIS is where all the problems come from, treating Lauren like some almighty deity that changed the word.
Agree with the bolded more than I know how to tactfully express. Unfortunately whenever one pony fan is given more "influence points" than other pony fans, for whatever reason, it warps the general perception of the fandom and the fans. It also creates some highly stupid behaviour. I'm not talking about people on the Arena, because I think the relationship between generation fans on here is pretty mutually respectful, but I'm talking about the mad internet meme pony "fans" whose sole purpose in life seems to be irritating other people. I was a moderator for a few years on an anime-related forum and one of my less pleasant jobs as a mod was removing sexually explicit G4 My Little Pony graphics from the open pages. When stuff like that happens, it's really not hard to understand why people are negative towards MLP as a whole.
Reading through other posts, I really do think this is a G4 problem for the most part. I didn't experience gender-based sexist discrimination as a kid with MLP but what seems to keep coming up is that many of us played with MLP because we weren't girly, which kinda trashes the stereotype for G1 a bit. It's true what Jordan says about the nauseating My Little Pony Mommy jingle, but that lyric doesn't seem to have been used in commercials in the UK, and it was only a section of commercials as far as I remember. MLP was aimed at girls and we can't get away from that fact. It being aimed at girls and it being played with by girls and boys are two different things for me. I really think that if people look on it with hindsight, even critically, it's because MLP was an icon of the 1980s and something people remember.
It also isn't always negatively represented in TV shows. My sister and I used to watch the OC, years ago, in which a Princess Pony has a starring role. If there is a stigma I think it's attached to success rather than anything else - but I do think it's a predominately G4 problem, because MLP has shifted from being a toy (as it was in G1's time) to a toy/collectable/cult icon, and that crosses boundaries.
I have to agree with this as well! Although I only think MLP has become synonymous with "little girls" because they aren't exactly toys that particularly have a more "mature" theme to them. I don't mean mature as in something bad or like PG13 or R-Rated or anything just more mature ideals or themes for the toys. Paying attention to fashion, doing your make-up/hair, Brain Surgeon Barbie, where as ponies are usually just simple little horses whose hair you brush.
I have to respectfully disagree with this in terms of Generation 1 at least. Aside from the horrifying backcard story about getting a date for the Sweet Kisses Ponies in the UK line, I think that MLP covered most every theme Barbie tried to cover, plus some, but with more variety in colour and the whole potential world of "magic" to boost their stories and make them broader characters. I think maybe this got lost a bit in later generations, but the original MLP was successful because it appealed to a kid's imagination.
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The Faust worship is something that really gets me. She actually wasn't that big of a fan of the brand when it was making its run. Her childhood herd ends abruptly with Year 3 because she was 12 by the time Year 4 got going and moving on. There's nothing wrong with that, and she did have a have soft spot for My Little Pony going forward, but she's not the goddess of pony bronies make her out to be. She was a standard fan who happened to build a career in animation to be in a position to produce a show.
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MLP has always been seen not just as a thing for girls but as a thing for very young girls. So it's not just because its "girly" but also because its "babyish".
I agree with this. MLP is lumped in with the stereotypical unicorn that is seen as something that only appeals to young girls. It's probably even why MLP was marketed to girls to begin with. On a slightly related note, have you ever noticed that outside of children's literature, there is so few fantasy books that feature unicorns especially in relation to books featuring dragons? There's got to be 1 unicorn book to every 20 dragon books at least.
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Wow, lots of kids had mainly Year 2 - 3 ponies and lost interest in them around 12. That's no reason to say that she "wasn't that big of a fan".
The reason people shouldn't take Faust's words as gospel is because there ISN'T a fan grading scale, not because she's somehow a sub-par fan because she didn't collect for 10 years straight.
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Also another point is G3 was much younger skewing than G1, especially the cartoon. Combine that with the idea that cartoons for small kids shouldn't be too scary and not set a bad example makes for MLP to be suddenly lumped in the same category as Disney Princesses. Yeah maybe their biggest dilemma was how to have enough cake for everyone but when you are little it's not like you are concerned about being a future Nobel prize winning President of the United States. But even the parents who don't want their daughters to be sexualized are often pushing them to achieve something like being smart or good at sports.
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Wow, lots of kids had mainly Year 2 - 3 ponies and lost interest in them around 12. That's no reason to say that she "wasn't that big of a fan".
That makes my point she was an average fan, not sub-par but also not the superfan who's word on pony is gospel like bronies make her and her opinions out to be. Though, even a superfan's word shouldn't be taken as gospel as they're as opinionated (if not more) than anyone. Actually, don't take anyone's word for gospel. Go figure out things for yourself.
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Personally speaking I think a lot of the "girly" flak that MLP gets is due to G3. It was definitely a lighter and fluffier generation and a lot of people seem to latch onto that.
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I'm agreeing with sexism. Seriously, liking "unicorns and rainbows" is very stereotypically girly and made fun of even I think over dolls. When you're talking about girly you say 'unicorns and rainbows.' I think if MLP does get more it's probably because of that.
MLP wasn't a thing in my school because I was born in 88 and g1 was kind of before my time, but it always surprises me when other people said Lisa Frank was popular in their school. Not mine at all. It was not cool to like girly stuff. If you had Lisa Frank stuff it was kept quiet and away from the rest of kids. And we're talking even little girls who couldn't show interest in girly stuff made for their age.
To the public, adults liking it is even worse. For the men, even with like male geared toys, I think it shows people 'weakness' and how dare men not be masculine! And for women it's like there's something wrong with them.
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I'm really sorry, but I am going to have to say something on the Lauren-topic, I'm sorry, but I respect her too much for it to go unsaid. After that, I'll respond to the actual topic point.
Firstly, as a brony, I can honestly say, as far as "Faust-Worship" goes, I have seen next to none. There are bronies who at the very least respect her and those who are fans of her, but the majority of what I've seen don't seem to respect her at all.
Now, I'm not saying that everybrony hates her, or disrespects her - she does have fans in the brony fandom, and maybe they are equal to the ones that don't support her, or maybe they are the majority, but I tend to notice the haters/those who disrespect her more. I often see Lauren treated by bronies, as someone who had very little importance to the show, other than be the one to start it off - they act like she just came in, pitched a show, and did nothing. Now, I know that a lot of people worked on FIM, and I respect all of them, and am thankful to all of them (though I will naturally criticise them if I think they did something "wrong" in my eyes), so I am not saying Lauren made the show awesome (in my opinion) all by herself, but she did a lot more than what bronies give her credit for.
Some bronies act like she left after the pilot episodes, and some act like she left after season 1 ended. Neither of these things are correct; she stood down at the end of season 1, and season 3 is the first season to not feature Lauren at all. Standing down, simply means she was less involved in things, but still involved enough so that it was her show. In season 1, she had a lot more control over the show, and for all we know some of the episodes could have been based on her ideas.
I am not taking credit away from the people who wrote the episodes, even if this is the case. Like I say, everyone involved deserves credit, but as I know that she created stories for My Little Pony when she was younger, I have every faith that at least some of it made it into FIM when she was there, even if all she did was suggest the storyline to whatever writer was doing that episode, or show him/her the story assuming she actually wrote it down (I created stories as a child, but I was too lazy to do any actual writing until I was older).
Even with the bronies who do like her, I've seen next to none of them treat her like a Goddess in seriousness (though, if they do, I don't agree with that either). I have seen some statements like "Queen" and "Goddess", but I'm sure it's no more than how those phrase are usually used by people who are fans of someone, either way it is nice to see, and heart-warming for me, that there are bronies who are fans of her in some way, and even draw her OC.
I can also honestly say that a lot of bronies only seem to take what she says as "gospel truth" when it pleases them. In other words, they only treat her word as gospel when it's they wanted her to say - she'll say something that matches their headcanon, and suddenly, she's awesome, and they'll constantly point out that Lauren "said so" in the following arguments (and I can think of two occasions, where she didn't even say what they wanted to hear, but they twisted her words so she did, essentially*), but the second she says something that doesn't match their headcanon, her opinion suddenly doesn't matter because she's "not part of the show anymore".
I can't find the interview where she says that about girl's cartoons now, but when I read it, I'm sure that it read to me as she was talking about other girl's shows, not My Little Pony. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it looked to me.
Finally, I know that she was more of a fan of the toys, not the show (though, I still see a lot of the "Concept Six's" personalities in the Mane Six in the G1 Cartoon), but this was because she was playing with the toys, and creating her stories first - not because the show was bad, and seeing as FIM seems very respectful to the older generations, under her control, I'm sure she respected all of the previous generations, even if she didn't like the shows. FIM in season 1 and 2 (her era) was so much like a combination of both G1 cartoons, G3, and even some G3.5 I think. I actually think that FIM is more G3 than G1, at times, but it takes bits and pieces from them all ultimately, or it did. I think she at least respects them, but if she doesn't then it's her opinion.
I respect her, not as a Goddess, but as a person, someone who got to be a part of something she loved when she was younger, which is something I would jump at the chance to do. I respect her the same way I respect other artists, and writers online and off, and I do find her relatable - she seems like such a down to Earth person in the interviews I've seen. One can forget she's a professional, and look at it like it's one of us doing something.
*This refers to Applejack's parents, and Scootaloo's flying. If anyone wants me to elaborate, I will.
Sorry about that, I had to say something because it gets to me, I'm sorry, but it does. Anyway back on topic, I think, like others have said, it's because people automatically think that girly is going to be lame and sissy, which a lot of the time, it's not. Even when the girl's show isn't an action show, it can still have interesting characters to relate to, and good storylines.
My Little Pony tended to mix adventure with slice-of-life very well, and pretty much every generation had some adventure in it (even G3.5 had Twinkle Wish Adventure), people tend to over look the conflict side of G3 because there were no villains, but conflict is not "when there's a villain", it's "when things go wrong" or "when the characters are at risk" - both these things happened during G3.
As a brony, I will admit that some members of my fandom have alluded to the problem - they have not realized that Lauren's point (sorry to mention her again), was that it's okay to like shows for girls, whoever, you are. They didn't get the message - they are constantly trying to find ways to prove that the show is not for girls, when they should be accepting it for what it is, and loving it for what it is.
"Hey look, there was a fight scene! This can't be for girls!!" ~ A Brony (probably).
There are boys and girls who like action, there are girls and boys who like cute moments. If the show is billed as a girl's show - then it's a girl's show.
Also, people sadly tend to be stereotypical to girls - I have mentioned this before, and it's on LadyMoondancer's tumblr, I think, but there was a test audience to a movie, which I think was Green Lantern, and they split the boys into various groups of age, but they just threw all the girls in together, implying they thought "all girls were the same". They miss the fact that there are many ways to be a girl.
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I can also honestly say that a lot of bronies only seem to take what she says as "gospel truth" when it pleases them. In other words, they only treat her word as gospel when it's they wanted her to say - she'll say something that matches their headcanon, and suddenly, she's awesome, and they'll constantly point out that Lauren "said so" in the following arguments (and I can think of two occasions, where she didn't even say what they wanted to hear, but they twisted her words so she did, essentially*), but the second she says something that doesn't match their headcanon, her opinion suddenly doesn't matter because she's "not part of the show anymore".
I personally think there's a big difference between the Arena bronies and the mad internet spam meme "bronies". I think that, when the fad has died down, that latter group will disappear, leaving only the real fans of G4 behind.
Also, in terms of Lauren, her views are valid as a pony fan, and I don't think either it matters how long she had G1 for as a kid in terms of her love for them. She's obviously done a lot for G4, but I don't really think about her in terms of MLP in general. She's a fan, like we're fans, but I'm not interested enough in G4 to see her as anything else, and certainly not someone whose words should be taken and used as a canon authority on what any generation of MLP before her own was or wasn't. My Little Pony predates G4, which I think a lot of the internet-meme-bronies forget, ignore or feel so insecure about they have to spend time and effort using Lauren's words and their own ideas to trash earlier generations.
Again, I re-emphasise, I am not talking about Arena bronies.
Also, people sadly tend to be stereotypical to girls - I have mentioned this before, and it's on LadyMoondancer's tumblr, I think, but there was a test audience to a movie, which I think was Green Lantern, and they split the boys into various groups of age, but they just threw all the girls in together, implying they thought "all girls were the same". They miss the fact that there are many ways to be a girl.
That part is true, and won't probably change. There is still a big issue in this world of gender inequality, even in allegedly equal societies. I just don't really see MLP as part of that gender struggle, because my experiences weren't really that way growing up.
I can see how G3 might have skewed the popular perception of the brand. The conflicts the G3 ponies dealt with were on a different framework and were, maybe, more "feminine" in terms of them being related to interactions, social conflict, rather than fights or whatever. BUT I also think to say so puts us in danger of stereotyping ourselves into that bracket. I personally think G3 had too much pink and purple, both in the ponies and the packaging, but then is that girly? If we say those colours are girly, aren't we confirming the stereotype?
Just a random note of interest, but I remember an article we had to do in translation class when I was doing my Japanese MA, about colour perception and gender stereotyping in Japanese tradition. Historically, pink is a masculine colour, it relates to sakura and flowers were also hugely associated with noble tradition and the warrior culture. I believe, if I remember the article right, blue was a more feminine colour. In modern Japan, western influences have reversed this trend. The article did a test on small children, to find out what colours they found most appealing - but ultimately the conclusion was it was impossible to tell whether the children were influenced by the colours their parents preferred or whether they genuinely gravitated towards certain shades.
I should add that this past week I have been watching a shoujo romance anime at the behest of one of my best friends. I am a girl, he is a guy. He plays dark fantasy games and listens to heavy metal music. He loves this anime way more than I do. So who knows? Maybe we're misjudging the male mindset in all of this, too.
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I guess I don't see the big deal? I've only seen this issue come up since g4/bronies came about.
I grew up in the 80s and had a bunch of ponies. My brother even had 2! (baby racer and Tabby if you're curious) I had some he-man figures and ninja turtle, too. While we were perfectly aware which aisles these toys were sold in they were pretty much all played with together.
I collect G1s now bc they are my favorite line (and one only has so much room). Now this whole grown men avidly watching FiM is different and is admittedly odd to even to me. I've watched the show. It's ok. It's not THAT great. I'm frankly surprised how popular it is. I guess I should be happy bc it keeps mlp alive (...but no so thrilled with g4 brushables anyways).
I don't want to start anything I just want to express my opinion from a 80s kid/collector s pov.
Same here..We share similar stories/thoughts!
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I personally think there's a big difference between the Arena bronies and the mad internet spam meme "bronies". I think that, when the fad has died down, that latter group will disappear, leaving only the real fans of G4 behind.
Hope so!
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The Faust worship is something that really gets me. She actually wasn't that big of a fan of the brand when it was making its run. Her childhood herd ends abruptly with Year 3 because she was 12 by the time Year 4 got going and moving on. There's nothing wrong with that, and she did have a have soft spot for My Little Pony going forward, but she's not the goddess of pony bronies make her out to be. She was a standard fan who happened to build a career in animation to be in a position to produce a show.
Faust has always been very iffy to me. I appreciate her art style and the feminist themes she wove into this gen, but she's one of those feminists that equate "feminine" or childish things as somehow shameful and it doesn't sit well with me. Tea parties, dress up and pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows aren't a bad thing but everything I've heard from her regarding her thoughts of the "old" MLP cartoons kinda imply the opposite.
(That's just my onion though.)
I'm kind of a hypocrite though, heh. I'm mostly here for the toys as well.
(stares at its list of favorite ponies, remembering that 90% of which were not featured in any cartoon)
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I'm kinda glad this whole brony fad came in. I can collect ponies without being questioned why. I did come from the G4 line but I do have quite a few G3's and a handful of G1's now that I definitely want to expand on!
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Needless to say, MLP has been the butt of many a cruel joke. Even Lauren Faust, the supposed Matron Saint of Ponies(...)
And THIS is where all the problems come from, treating Lauren like some almighty deity that changed the word.
Well... this isn't where all problems come from. But if you call Lauren Faust the "Matron Saint of Ponies" in one breath and then say that she puts down older generations in another breath, it doesn't sound like she's being very saintly. I really don't see how she is any different from anyone else, though. How exactly does she come to be the supposed saint of ponies?
I agree that Barbies get a lot more flack than ponies. Barbies get the ultimate PINK aisle in stores (and until Monster High came along, Barbies had their whole own aisle!). Here's an interesting article I read about Barbies long ago (http://jezebel.com/5166340/why-do-we-destroy-our-barbie-dolls) that discusses everyone's hatred towards Barbie. It talks about how she represents unrealistic body images, etc. Ponies don't do that... unless you think that real ponies actually look like G4s (or are pink or blue or any other unusual color).
But I can say that I have had two experiences in my life where someone said something rude about ponies to me.
1) I was about ten and a friend of mine who lived next door had a friend from out of town visiting. We were all hanging out, and I started talking about ponies. In order to sound "cool" in front of her out-of-town friend, my friend said something along the lines of, "You're a prissy girl, aren't you?" Well, no I wasn't. In fact, I could have found a spider, picked it up with my hands, and put it in her hair right then and there. I didn't. And it wouldn't have mattered anyway whether I was "prissy" or not (though I would have thought the friend knew me better than that). We also didn't remain friends for very long.
2) A couple of years ago (2013 maybe?) a friend and I were at the mall. I said I wanted to go into Claire's, then acknowledged that the store is marketed to young girls. My friend didn't have a problem with this, but said, "Well, that's not weird, as long as you're not into My Little Pony or something..." I stopped, looked at her, and said, "Do you KNOW me? Have you ever been to my house?" After a brief discussion she apologized and said she didn't really know why she had said that, and thanked me for correcting her faux paus. We are still friends.
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I clearly haven't watched enough G4, because the bits I have watched didn't strike me as particularly "feminist" :-/. Rarity is rather stereotypical in her fashion consciousness, Pinkie Pie has the frivolous party gene, Rainbow Dash is a tomboy, and by being a tomboy, she reaffirms the "girly" stereotype for the others. I dunno, maybe I just haven't seen enough of the series to really judge. But, if she has since left the show directly, probably the show eps I've seen are the ones she was directly involved in.
The only real issue I have with Lauren Faust's view of the G1 show is simply that it doesn't make much sense. I know she's maybe not as involved as she was, but then a lot of the darker G1 themes have maybe appeared in G4 since was less involved? Not sure about that, but the comparison for me can be summed up with Scorpan and Tirek.
Based on discussion with my G4 obsessed student, who gives me a detailed rundown of every episode week by week when I work in his class, I understand that Tirek and Scorpan are brothers in the FIM series. They're plotting to steal magic, but ultimately Scorpan befriends the ponies, comes over to their way of thinking, opposes his brother and helps to protect Equestria.
The original rendition of Tirek and Scorpan is a lot darker in my opinion. Scorpan is not Tirek's brother, but a prince whose form has been mutated under a spell. He (along with Spike) is a slave, and forced to enslave others (namely the ponies, Bubbles and Moondancer being among them I think)? to turn them into beasts to pull Tirek's chariot of darkness. The saviour in this story is the Rainbow of Light, which makes its first appearance (and on which the Elements of Harmony are not so subtly based).
Faust must have grown up with episodes like that one, if she stopped around year 3. That being the case, I do wonder where she got the idea that G1 was all parties and crying to defeat the villain. Unless she's been misquoted, which is possible. I don't deny there are a few very silly episodes in G1, but, you know, even weird ones like the Ice Cream Wars seems to have had some kind of trigger - I recently discovered that there were genuine "Ice Cream Wars" in Glasgow in 1982, and, given the really BAD accent of Fudgie McSwain in that episode, it seems possible that that incident inspired the pony episode somewhat.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/deadly-glasgow-ice-cream-wars/
I have never been in the community as a collector because of the animation, I've been here for the ponies and the ponies I grew up with are those printed in the comics, which is almost all of the ponies sold within the UK plus a few early ones we didn't get. Each of them has a character of their own, several have unique personality traits and magic tricks and characteristics and therefore the canon is wider and more diverse than the old TV show could ever really manage. But I am still fond of the old show, and don't think it deserves the criticism it sometimes gets online.
That said, while I respect G3 and G4, I think that any girly assertions come from them, rather than from earlier. The obvious comparions, going down to toys and merchandise, is how they are packaged. If you look at the average G1 card across the line, most cards are NOT pink and the key theme/logo is a rainbow. Admittedly, the last years in Europe have pink cards (and they're fairly horrible and garish, tbh) but they still have the rainbow.
G2 cards are largely blue, and also have the rainbow. It has changed, but it is still a rainbow.
G3 and G4 have pink logos, and hearts. G3 have pink as standard for their packaging, which adds to the stereotype. True, G4 cards are not all pink, but just looking at the only 2 carded G4 ponies I have on my shelf, Neon Rarity and Masquerade Sunset Shimmer, the latter of those has pink shades taking up the entire top of the card with the logo, while Rarity's card has a prominent pink logo, even though the card itself is not pink.
I am pretty sure that's a good place to begin with the "girl-orientated" image of My Little Pony.
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The original rendition of Tirek and Scorpan is a lot darker in my opinion. Scorpan is not Tirek's brother, but a prince whose form has been mutated under a spell. He (along with Spike) is a slave, and forced to enslave others (namely the ponies, Bubbles and Moondancer being among them I think)? to turn them into beasts to pull Tirek's chariot of darkness. The saviour in this story is the Rainbow of Light, which makes its first appearance (and on which the Elements of Harmony are not so subtly based).
I think they made that change because they established humans were in another dimension and not in the same one with the ponies.
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Tirek and Scorpan are also extra-dimensional aliens.
I was rather disappointed in G4 Tirek. With two episodes and a Fiendship is Magic issues, all they could come up with is he wanted to absorb Equestrian magic to make himself a kaiju and blow stuff up. G1 Tirac was the corrupter, and his realm and minions gave you the sense the "Night That Never Ends" was not simply darkness forever but the mutation of the world into his twisted image. Tirek worked as a simple villain to fight but not a shoutout to MLP's first and one of its most iconic villains.
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I hope someone is collecting all this for a dissertation, it is fascinating sociological data. And would be very interesting to see an analysis over time, including all the G4 bullying and negativity experienced by bronies. If it was my book, of course it would also include a section on positive stories and outcomes, detailing positive personal outcomes related to My Little Pony :P
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In terms of other dimensions, my memory is rusty but I am pretty sure that there's some dimension crossing in G1. Firefly etc have to go over the rainbow to get Megan, they're not just readily there on the doorstep. Within Ponyland, there are various other creatures/"people" but they aren't human as such. And, of course, some of them live in dimensions too - such as Tambelon.
I hope someone is collecting all this for a dissertation, it is fascinating sociological data. And would be very interesting to see an analysis over time, including all the G4 bullying and negativity experienced by bronies.
I'm not really sure whether you're talking in general, people not accepting brony fandom or judging people for liking MLP in the modern age...I'm also not sure whether you're calling all pony people bronies or whether not, so forgive me if I'm taking your words out of the context that you meant them.
I think of brony as a g4 term, and as such, I also think there's been an amount of nasty stuff from the outer G4 fandom (beyond the Arena) towards older generations, and to fans of the G4 line who do not want to participate in the stupid element (the online meming and such like).
As I mentioned before, I have a student who is passionate about G4. He is also very receptive to discussion on other generations, but he frequently quotes this which I believe is somewhere from the mainstream G4 fandom - was it on a TV documentary or something?
I think it's longer, but this is the bit that I hear at college all the time:
"Generation 1 appeared on tv in the 80’s
It was made to sell toys, plots were hardly very weighty.
And generation 2, I do not mean to grouse and gripe
But these characters fell right into the girly stereotypes.
And generation 3 is just too awful and too tragic,
So let’s jump to number 4, where friendship, is magic!"
I don't have issues with people hating other generations, but there still needs to be the mutual respect. Poems like that kind of reinforce the negative stereotypes that we've been talking about. And it is a poem that originated WITHIN the G4 community somewhere. It's internal, not external.
A lot of people - fans and non-fans won't stop and think whether or not the poem is right. It rhymes, like my little pony, skinny and bony, and therefore it gains momentum. As I said, my student repeats it, frequently...and he is not anti-other generations. We've had some great comparative discussions about things like smooze.
BUT he still repeats that poem, nonetheless, especially the line about G3 (about which I think he knows very little).
It's just because it's there in the fandom, and available, so he repeats it because he's seen it repeated and reposted around forums.
Stuff like that helps to promote a negative stereotype for older generations, because of the sweeping nature of the statements included.
It sums up what I think is bad about the modern craze over MLP, and where I think a lot of the bad feedback comes from. People fit into one of 5 categories where MLP is concerned, in my view:
#1 Meme bronies (vocally pro G4 on the internet)
#2 True bronies (invested fans of G4 only)
#3 Fans of mixed generations including G4
#4 Fans of other generations than G4
#5 Not fans of MLP.
I think the majority of negative energy I've experienced relating to MLP and collecting in recent years has come from the first of those groups, who think they're being funny or clever, rather than seriously considering whether other people are upset bytheir actions or comments.
I am also pretty sure that a fair number of the second group on that list have taken a lot of flack because of the actions of that first group, which has helped them get sucked into the negative and probably garnered them unfair criticism as a result.
I have a lot fewer issues with non fans of the genre, because they are generally not interested enough to insult it. People I work with and friends of mine know I collect but nothing is ever said about it. It is just a non-event in their world, so they don't really discuss it.
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Ugh. That "poem" was created by the staff of the brony documentary and recited by John de Lancie himself in its intro. Yes, it wasn't bronies but entertainment professionals who came up with it. Like I didn't have enough reasons to hate that animation as it was.
This is where it came from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd0-cGkClMQ
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Ugh. That "poem" was created by the staff of the brony documentary and recited by John de Lancie himself in its intro.
Honestly, that makes it even worse. And, possibly, nails one of the reasons why there is a 'stigma' associated with MLP. If my student is anything to go by, there are a lot of people who are influenced by that, some of whom may never having stopped and looked at the earlier generations.
I don't know who John De Lancie is. I assume he has something to do with the G4 animation.
The G1 comment seems to echo Faust's apparent opinion, too. Chicken and egg maybe...but it does make it look like undermining G1-3 is seen as a way to promote G4, at least by the meme brony fandom.
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The "MLP is about tea parties" stereotype pre-dates G4, though. I think Jordan is right when he said the commercials for MLP were a factor. They were never about battling monsters or bravery; they usually had a couple little girls in meringue-like dresses talking about how beautiful the ponies were while they brushed their hair.
Don't get me wrong, the G1 commercials were charming (okay, actually I hated the "My Little Pony mommy" ones when I was a little girl, but I liked the ones with the original tune), but if that was the only exposure someone had to MLP, I can see where they would get the impression that the ponies didn't do much besides brush hair and think about their looks.
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De Lancie voices Discord, the main villain of the second season premier (because he played Q in Star Trek who was the basis for that villain) and became a recurring character in Season 3.
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if that was the only exposure someone had to MLP, I can see where they would get the impression that the ponies didn't do much besides brush hair and think about their looks.
Point taken, BUT if a person is going to take a position of discussing the old TV show specifically, then you would think that impression should be built from *watching* the old TV show, not simply from a fleeting glance at the commercials. I would be a bit surprised if someone's only exposure was to the commercials when talking about G1, since it's only more recently they've been so available on YT, whereas the original series has been floating around for a while in various forms. The most well released is the movie, which I don't honestly like that much, but it definitely doesn't revolve around tea parties, hair brushing or crying to stop a villain...
All that said, I used to believe as a kid that Jem was about magic and magicians because on my Sweet Stuff and the Treasure Hunt VHS, the trailer for Jem was entirely animated from the Misfits Abracadabra video, in which Pizzazz and the others are putting spells on Jem and co and playing the witch/magic trick card. So I wasn't interested in Jem as a kid, because that was my impression of it - I only learned later that it wasn't that way.
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The commercials are a very good reflection of advertising culture of the 80's - where toys were marketed very, very hard to a specific gender/age group. Much of today's toy advertising is still the same (we have 'girl' aisles and 'boy' aisles for gods sakes still in toy stores, ugh) but it was definitely worse in the 80's.
The shows on the other hand, while they were glorified 20 minute commercials, did not pitch a given pony/playset quite so hard, they actually had plot for the most part and shallow but decent characterization, something you don't really get in a 60 second TV spot.
That "poem" typifies all the things that make me cringe and vehemently reject the word "Brony". I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
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I had forgot that "poem" was actually written by Amy Keating Rogers herself, one of the show's most celebrated writers. The animation also shows random ponies gasping in horror at G3 and Muffin Pony's eyes going straight at the sight of whatever they were seeing. So, the staff making the current show believes, or at least believed what was said there.
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The commercials are a very good reflection of advertising culture of the 80's - where toys were marketed very, very hard to a specific gender/age group. Much of today's toy advertising is still the same (we have 'girl' aisles and 'boy' aisles for gods sakes still in toy stores, ugh) but it was definitely worse in the 80's.
To the extent that Hasbro's logo in the 80s was literally a boy and girl walking in opposite direction.
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That "poem" typifies all the things that make me cringe and vehemently reject the word "Brony". I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
Not everyone who loves ponies grew up with them. I was more a LPS girl who fell in love with G3 near the end of their run as an adult because they were cute and pretty. (I would have probably loved G2 as a kid if they actually continued in the US. grrrrr)
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Yep there's a guy called Ewan at Brighton Uni, he was at UK Ponycon last year and gave a talk. Sorry I don't have any more of his details to hand but might be able to find his email when I unpack my pony stuff...
I hope someone is collecting all this for a dissertation, it is fascinating sociological data. And would be very interesting to see an analysis over time, including all the G4 bullying and negativity experienced by bronies. If it was my book, of course it would also include a section on positive stories and outcomes, detailing positive personal outcomes related to My Little Pony :P
Post Merge: June 17, 2015, 07:57:29 AM
The commercials are a very good reflection of advertising culture of the 80's - where toys were marketed very, very hard to a specific gender/age group. Much of today's toy advertising is still the same (we have 'girl' aisles and 'boy' aisles for gods sakes still in toy stores, ugh) but it was definitely worse in the 80's.
To the extent that Hasbro's logo in the 80s was literally a boy and girl walking in opposite direction.
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Omg is right!! Never spotted that before
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That "poem" typifies all the things that make me cringe and vehemently reject the word "Brony". I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
Yep. Could not agree with you more. I am a bit horrified, though, that that poem came from people directly involved in the G4 show. It's as though G4 is trying to market itself on superiority over other generations, and that's a bit sad.
After the bad blood that happened over G2 in their early days, I think that as a collecting community we learned the hard way that it really doesn't matter what generation pony you like or choose to collect. No generation is better than any other, it is just a matter of individual preference as to which one each of us picks to like best. Nowadays the proper community/fandom - ie, places like here on the Arena, or the TP, where all MLP generation fans from all over the world are represented and where we can all interdiscuss these things without making fun or mocking or attacking each other for the generation we like best - are pretty mutually respectful of one another.
I don't see the "meme bronies" (officially gonna be my name for them now) as pony fans of any generation, because insulting the basis for the thing you say you love doesn't even make any sense. You can't love G4 by hating on older generations, because G4 is meant to bring together older generations into one new show. I'm genuinely both amazed and horrified that that mindset spread to the creation team of G4 in some way. I had totally assumed it to be a creation of the meme "brony" "fandom".
@ LM - that's a great call. I hadn't looked at the 1980s Hasbro logo that way, either, but you're right. That is what it shows. Although it is interesting that it's a blue logo - and it appeared in blue on MLP packages, even though MLP was strictly in the "girl" category based on the commercials.
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I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
what about the people who came from G4? I never would have even touched MLP if it wasn't for G4. I was 16 when I got into ponies not even close to a kid, I'm 20 now nearly 21
I do mainly collect G4, but I am open to buying G1's (probably what I'll do when FiM stops making toys) not to mention my bookshelf full of G3's I've rescued from thrifts and flea markets
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I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
what about the people who came from G4? I never would have even touched MLP if it wasn't for G4. I was 16 when I got into ponies not even close to a kid, I'm 20 now nearly 21
I do mainly collect G4, but I am open to buying G1's (probably what I'll do when FiM stops making toys) not to mention my bookshelf full of G3's I've rescued from thrifts and flea markets
I think Baby Sugarberry is talking about the idiots who make offensive and stupid memes and who go around YT trashing old pony stuff - not the genuine fans like yourself who love ponies and collect because of that :) There's a difference between real G4 fans like those here on the Arena and the fad fans out to cause trouble.
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I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
what about the people who came from G4? I never would have even touched MLP if it wasn't for G4. I was 16 when I got into ponies not even close to a kid, I'm 20 now nearly 21
I do mainly collect G4, but I am open to buying G1's (probably what I'll do when FiM stops making toys) not to mention my bookshelf full of G3's I've rescued from thrifts and flea markets
I think Baby Sugarberry is talking about the idiots who make offensive and stupid memes and who go around YT trashing old pony stuff - not the genuine fans like yourself who love ponies and collect because of that :) There's a difference between real G4 fans like those here on the Arena and the fad fans out to cause trouble.
aa! I keep forgetting there are people like that O.o you'd think people would want to learn the history of the franchise not mock it. I mean you have to look at what Hasbro's was/is trying to market towards... -_-
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Hmm, now that the topic is all about Stigmas, Bronys and all that Jazz, I may as well give my two cents.
I've been there from the start - I started collecting G1 Ponies when I was only a child and never stopped. That means I can remember a Time before FiM came around. And at that time, I don't think there was a Stigma for Ponies at all. Sure, boys smirked at Ponies like they smirk at all girl toys, but that hardly counts. As an adult collecting Ponies, people were a little curious, sure - but mostly they accepted it as a quirk, a special hobby, and that was all. We were no different from other vintage Toy collectors.
Well, and then FiM happened. I was happy that My little Pony was not dead, and I was happy that it had so much success. But then the whole Brony fad went out of control. People started going CRAZY about that show. The Internet was FLOODED with that crazyness for weeks and weeks. Rants, emberassing Photos, more rants. And, sadly. too: Porn. Loads of Pony Porn started showing up. (This was almost nonexistent before FiM btw). Many photos showed up with Bronies being crazy, sexual or weird. :shocked:
:heart: Of course, I know that not all Bronies were acting this way! Please bear with me! :heart:
Well... The internet basically exploded. And that is when the big break happened. Suddendly, Pony Collectors and Ponies in general were associated with these annoying people and/or perverted people. Many Boards even banned Ponies from being posted, and this remains to this day. I literally cannot talk about my Pony collection online anymore. Only here its possible.
Now, when I tell people I collect Ponies, they look at me funny and I have to explain the whole thing to them.
I know that not all Bronies are this way. I met a few and they were basically like me, just enjoying a Toy. I am happy about that. But at the start, when the show first came out, you cannot deny that most Bronies were *very* vocal about it. And some of them drew *much* porn of it. Fortunately, now it all cooled down, and the crazy Bronies are not as loud anymore, making way for calm, "regular" Bronies. I like this. I also like the show, FiM. Its cute and well-written, so no grudge remains there.
I think sometimes, a fanbase cheers a little too enthusiastically and accidentally makes itself unpopular for a while. I think this is what happened with MLP. I think its sad that now MLP has this stigma - I think everyone suffers from it, Collectors and Bronies alike.
But I am sure it will blow over with time!
:heart:
I hope I didn't make anyone angry. I mean no insult. This is just how I percieved it.
No hard feelings, okay?
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I totally feel the same way, Galaxy91. I hate how all these adult MLP pictures and even PRODUCTS have came to be. Some may know what I am referring too. I like my pony world to remain innocent. The bronies are the Arena are very nice, but I avoid the ones outside. They have been nasty and hurtful, even to me. I actually got made fun of by them for my collection. I don't want to be associated with hateful people like that. The people here are accepting and kind, and those who understand the obsessions with toys.
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I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
what about the people who came from G4? I never would have even touched MLP if it wasn't for G4. I was 16 when I got into ponies not even close to a kid, I'm 20 now nearly 21
I do mainly collect G4, but I am open to buying G1's (probably what I'll do when FiM stops making toys) not to mention my bookshelf full of G3's I've rescued from thrifts and flea markets
I think Baby Sugarberry is talking about the idiots who make offensive and stupid memes and who go around YT trashing old pony stuff - not the genuine fans like yourself who love ponies and collect because of that :) There's a difference between real G4 fans like those here on the Arena and the fad fans out to cause trouble.
aa! I keep forgetting there are people like that O.o you'd think people would want to learn the history of the franchise not mock it. I mean you have to look at what Hasbro's was/is trying to market towards... -_-
'innocent' would probably have been a better word choice than 'childhood', sorry about that, but Taffeta's got it in a nutshell. There's a good reason I don't browse for "My Little Pony" anymore, in the internet at large. Too much adult material & hate.
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I eagerly await the day when the fad/show dies out and all that is left are the people who just want to enjoy their fond childhood memories (of any generation) in peace. :cloud:
what about the people who came from G4? I never would have even touched MLP if it wasn't for G4. I was 16 when I got into ponies not even close to a kid, I'm 20 now nearly 21
I do mainly collect G4, but I am open to buying G1's (probably what I'll do when FiM stops making toys) not to mention my bookshelf full of G3's I've rescued from thrifts and flea markets
I think Baby Sugarberry is talking about the idiots who make offensive and stupid memes and who go around YT trashing old pony stuff - not the genuine fans like yourself who love ponies and collect because of that :) There's a difference between real G4 fans like those here on the Arena and the fad fans out to cause trouble.
aa! I keep forgetting there are people like that O.o you'd think people would want to learn the history of the franchise not mock it. I mean you have to look at what Hasbro's was/is trying to market towards... -_-
'innocent' would probably have been a better word choice than 'childhood', sorry about that, but Taffeta's got it in a nutshell. There's a good reason I don't browse for "My Little Pony" anymore, in the internet at large. Too much adult material & hate.
oh ehe no worries! :hug:
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There's a good reason I don't browse for "My Little Pony" anymore, in the internet at large. Too much adult material & hate.
This bugs me so much, but they seriously do it to EVERYTHING these days. I hope being classy comes into style sometime soon.
Anyway, I never felt like ponies in particular had a stigma where I came from. It was just a blanket "you still have toys?!?!?!" followed by mean sniggers and mocking glances. I did give up ponies when I was a teen but I kept my model horses and stuffed animals. I think its just mean people needing to find leverage to shame you, especially if they sense that you are either weak (like I was) or a nice person. I moved on to music and the mean people ridiculed that too. I just don't get the need to squash other people. It really is true, haters gonna hate
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Its a maturity issue coupled with the fact the net is so widespread these days. If you have to tack adult themes onto a kid's toy/show just to justify to yourself liking it then some serious growing up is in order. It isn't a question of physical age but mental maturity.
Though, having had to delete sexually explicit mlp graphics from the forum I used to moderate...and therefore having been forced to see said images I am a bit disturbed by the minds that want to put those themes into something aimed at kids.
My experiences with online bronies till I came back to the Arena were like DazzleKitty and Galaxy experienced. I confess it made me angry. I am really glad being back here has shown me the other side of the G4 fandom.
Maybe the accusation of mlp being childish stems from the people trying to justify forcing adult themes into it. It wouldn't surprise me.
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Yep there's a guy called Ewan at Brighton Uni, he was at UK Ponycon last year and gave a talk. Sorry I don't have any more of his details to hand but might be able to find his email when I unpack my pony stuff...
I hope someone is collecting all this for a dissertation, it is fascinating sociological data. And would be very interesting to see an analysis over time, including all the G4 bullying and negativity experienced by bronies. If it was my book, of course it would also include a section on positive stories and outcomes, detailing positive personal outcomes related to My Little Pony :P
Thanks so much for pointing me in that direction! I just looked up Ewan Kirkland, and woah he is doing some interesting research! Did you (or anyone else reading) attend this event? Here's the outline-
http://arts.brighton.ac.uk/research/research-events/research-conferences/my-little-pony
I think it's exciting to see ponies as a launchpad for critical thinking and hopefully someday social change. The largest research project I've seen in the US is specifically focused on bronies and FiM (http://www.bronystudy.com/) but it would be interesting to examine the stigma associated with MLP across the arc of all four generations. It's be great to see some core feminist principles packaged into pony form (like Feminism 101 or Everyday feminism)..hmmm...goes to work written panel descriptions...:)
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...forcing adult themes into it.
And sadly it seems like "adult themes" are just vulgarity and sexual perversion. If you want to explore some more complex issues using the fantastical setting to give them a new context, that's what shows like Star Trek have done for a half century. Having the ponies swear, do perverted things, and reference popular culture doesn't really make it mature. It just makes it inaccessible to kids.
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My friends and I, our pony games consisted of zombie worlds and rescuing princesses from monsters...and the boys who threw the ponies on the roof came to regret it because we regrouped, gathered our unicorn ponies and treated them to what we called "pony chase", which consisted of chasing them around the playground and then prodding them with the unicorn ponies. Fizzy was the best for this!
That is AWESOME. :lol:
And yeah; my sister and I had games where our ponies were abducted by dragons (inspired by Rescue From Midnight Castle). I loved that movie. It's not stereotypically girly, for sure; I think it strikes a nice balance between strong female characters and strong male characters and a good plot. My parents were worried it would give me nightmares, but it never did. :P I watched it over and over. Some of our other game storylines were more "girly," though, or at least domestic; our ponies tended to live as if they were human: they went to school, bought and sold stuff, etc. One of my favorite things to do, as I got older (10 and on), was to dress them up for dances. So I got girlier as I got older, I guess?
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PRODUCTS
Ugh, I know exactly which Products you mean... -_-
Its really a shame, and it irritates me immensely. Before FiM, This kind of sexualisation was almost unheard of. Not even furries were interested in MLP. Now, MLP p0rn is a big thing, and if anyone who knows the internet hears about mlp, they think of THAT first. Its such a shame. I really hate Bronies that contribute to this sexualisation. I hate that it has to be this way now.
Its just so irritating! For me, the whole appeal of Ponies is that they are just so inncoent, so child-like. They are something to be collected and brushed and groomed - they are a token from a cherished time. They let me experience the same joy as I had with them in my childhood. They are like beautiful flower bouquets to me. Completely non-sexual.
But now, we have this big sub-culture of furries and perverts doing unspeakable things with them.
Yeah... mlp is now tinted forever. It bugs me, yes. Sometimes It makes me upset. Sometimes, thinking of Bronies makes me angry. I know they are not *all* like this, but still... y'know.
I don't even want to go to Pony fairs anymore. :( :facepalm:
[edit ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]
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That's something that worries me. When Friendship is Magic does end and most of the bronies disappear and those that remain are absorbed in the collector's community, the stain of their presence will remain on the brand. The amount of pandering Hasbro and the staff running the show have done for them will forever be with the brand and I fear it will be a black mark. Bronies might be numberous and have a lot of money to buy 3rd party merchandise, but at the cost of My Little Pony's image in the long run.
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That's something that worries me. When Friendship is Magic does end and most of the bronies disappear and those that remain are absorbed in the collector's community, the stain of their presence will remain on the brand. The amount of pandering Hasbro and the staff running the show have done for them will forever be with the brand and I fear it will be a black mark. Bronies might be numberous and have a lot of money to buy 3rd party merchandise, but at the cost of My Little Pony's image in the long run.
Well, hopefully the bronies that give up on MLP after FIM ends are mostly the ones who demand pandering, as well as the ones who exibit the other negative sides of the fandom. Or better still the show stops pandering and the bronies who aren't mature enough to handle it give up on FIM there and then, and let the fans who don't like the pandering (which includes some bronies) enjoy the show, and do what they want with it in fanon.
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Yeah... mlp is now tinted forever. It bugs me, yes. Sometimes It makes me upset. Sometimes, thinking of Bronies makes me angry. I know they are not *all* like this, but still... y'know.
I don't even want to go to Pony fairs anymore. :( :facepalm:
I feel that exact same way. We have some bronies here who are good dudes so I try not to be harsh to all, but the bad ones are well....bad. But now MLP is associated with "brony" and I don't want to be called a brony when someone finds out I am into ponies. The term excludes women too which is irritating. I am a collector and a fan.
I went to my first fair in 2013 when the bronies first started coming out. I am going to the fair this year and I am sure there will be hoards of them. I just want in to buy stuff and leave, pretty much. I only will associate with other collectors and people I recognize from here.
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The term excludes women too which is irritating. I am a collector and a fan.
To be fair, there is a female equivalent to Brony, called "Pegasis".
I would certanly never call myself a Pegasis, tough, since it *is* the female term for Brony, and I never ever want to be compared to a Brony for obvious reasons...
Collector and fan - that's what I call myself too.
:lovey:
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Or better still the show stops pandering
I don't see that happening anytime soon. The term that best describes what Episode 100 was to the brony community is something I won't say in polite company.
I had to explain to my mom I'm not a brony. I'm a fan of My Little Pony. There's a difference, a big difference.
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The term excludes women too which is irritating. I am a collector and a fan.
To be fair, there is a female equivalent to Brony, called "Pegasis".
I would certanly never call myself a Pegasis, tough, since it *is* the female term for Brony, and I never ever want to be compared to a Brony for obvious reasons...
Collector and fan - that's what I call myself too.
:lovey:
G1 pony fans at least were always called ponypeople back in the late 1990s, because of the mailing list group of the same name. I still use that term, only I include all generations in it now because it is inclusive. We are all sone kind of pony people.
I make it clear to folk that I am not a brony or a pegasister. I'm not part of the fad, I loved MLP in a time before the internet. I really hate when tjose terms are applied anachronistically. I admit I have sone twitches with cutie mark and everypony when applied in all gen discussion or non g4 topics,..but those two are just personal preference.
I have not been to uk ponycon since 2011. I am debating it this year, but last couple I didn't go to because of online brony fatigue. I had to deal with a lot of it on the forum I was mod on and, honestly, it didn'm make me feel particularly harmonious towards the brand in general.
On the flip, I think mlp will recover from this. The online community will, anyway, and if it goes back to being socially uncool, so what? At least it will be the thing we love. When the g2 came out and we had the Shadows and people making images of old ponies killing new ponies and peopke being targeted out of the community because they either liked or hated G2, it looked like the whole mlp thing might fall apart. It didn't. We kearned from it, grew up and moved on.
Memes and all the junk out there are only interesting to people withbthe mindset to go looking for them, and as soon as mlp stops being a fad, people will meme something else. Meanwhile, those of us who care will just carry on as we are now. No way is this long standing and widespread fandom going to be tainted forever by a bunch of immature idiots with disturbing mental images of children's cartoon characters.
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Or better still the show stops pandering
I don't see that happening anytime soon. The term that best describes what Episode 100 was to the brony community is something I won't say in polite company.
I had to explain to my mom I'm not a brony. I'm a fan of My Little Pony. There's a difference, a big difference.
We can still dream, I do wish there was away that we could convince Hasbro to stop, or at least convince those types of bronies that the show doesn't need to cater to them over the quality of the show to be "cool" (it was already "cool", with it's well written characters, and storylines that's why bronies liked it - though most of that was present in Pre-FIM anyway).
I'm personally okay with being called a brony because I have a nostalgic attachment to the name. It has a stigma itself, and it is kind of annoying, but it's the term I started with, and I have fond memories of it. I understand why people wouldn't want to have it.
Ultimately it meant "fan of My Little Pony" to me back then, but I know that there are the "Ponyfans" and there are the "Bronies", and stereotypically speaking I'm more of a Ponyfan than a Brony, but I stick to Brony out of nostalgia.
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I agree there wasn't a stigma separate from any other girls toy before FiM. What there is now was created by Bronies. Part of me wishes FiM never existed bc this new group of "fans" have tarnished my favorite childhood line of toys. We had male members of the board before FiM but they were collectors like the rest of us.
I sometimes read Brony boards for the heck of it. Every time I am literally blown away over the topics. There is such a huge difference between fans and collectors. Think collecting stamps vs writng fanfic/fantasizing about stamps. As a collector, all I care about is picking up the ponies I like. I Def don't want to debate details of a show aimed at kids (and it IS) which I don't even think is all that great honestly. Sorry but all this obsessing over the show has earned the stigma. Ive had mlp since I was a kid in the 80s and I don't want to hear it.
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SummerSkye, I couldn't even read those boards without my blood pressure rising immensely. LOL.
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Writing fanfics isn't bad in and of itself (though I'm a writer of said fanfics, so I could be biased). I see it as another form of play using writing to play out imagining even with ponies you might not have in your possession but know about. It's the stories of fanfics where you run into trouble. I write about the adventures of the G1 ponies while keeping things in the spirit of pony. Much of the brony community seems to have different fantasies they want to play out on the keyboard.
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Fanfic is fine within perameters. I'm a lot in anime and such communities, and there are 2 types of fanfic there - stories and fantasies put into words for other people to have to read. I also have nothing against deeply analysing episodes or anything, really, story related. It's when you start adding the other layer of...stuff...to it that it becomes a problem. But, honestly, if they kept it to their own boards and it didn't spill on the wider internet (eg YT etc) then it wouldn't be a problem. It's only that we have it shoved in our faces so much - and so does everyone else. There was a thriving MLP community before even G2 came out, but some of those people think that they created the community and the concept of MLP fandom - and so can treat people the way they choose and not respect what came before.
The sexualised stuff is no better than child cartoon porn. There are a lot of things I could say about that, but the mods would slap me, so I won't.
I wouldn't go so far to say that I wish G4 hadn't happened. That would be punishing the fans of G4 who are not guilty of the nonsense. We have a lot of lovely G4 fans here, or people who came into MLP through G4 and expanded across other generations. Those people are welcome as part of the community and there shouldn't be a separation or a "that Gen should not exist" mentality, imo, even despite the frustration.
The problem is not with the G4 ponies, or even the show. The problem is with a group of very sick and immature people, and the stuff their minds create.
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Well, I'm going to give a shot from the other side of the spectrum here, as I have been observing the fandom and fan-content (and creating the latter in form of art and fanfiction) for years. The differences are indeed mind-blowing.
You know, I feel like I'm trapped between the two sides here.
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I see nothing wrong with fanfiction. I have been reading fanfiction for years. I even read some of the more adult stuff, as I am part of many anime fandoms (and a huge BL fan) and even got into Harry Potter for a while (I revisit that fandom a lot). And if someone wants to write adult pony fanfics, so be it. What I hate is if I look up My Little Pony on Google image search, I get spammed with pony p0rn. It annoys me for some reason.
[edit ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]
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I see nothing wrong with fanfiction. I have been reading fanfiction for years. I even read some of the more adult stuff, as I am part of many anime fandoms (and a huge BL fan) and even got into Harry Potter for a while (I revisit that fandom a lot). And if someone wants to write adult pony fanfics, so be it. What I hate is if I look up My Little Pony on Google image search, I get spammed with pony porn. It annoys me for some reason.
[edit ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]
This is what kills me. My 8 year old daughter loves to look at pony art, plushies and the like, but I've had to ban her from using google image search because every time one or more of the top results are *highly* inappropriate. I've tried using safesearch and controls but for some reason, those images still get through. I guess it's because they are My Little Ponies and the safesearch doesn't recognize them as bad. But seriously, how unfair is that? It's a kid's toy and she can't even look at it.
I'm glad G4 happened because I've made some great new pony friends who were drawn to MLP because of the show. They are great people and some of them identify as bronies. But I just wish this over-sexualization of a child's toy would just stop or at least not show up on google image search :-(
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But I just wish this over-sexualization of a child's toy would just stop or at least not show up on google image search :-(
The bold is pretty much how I feel. Before FiM I only found adult images of the Big Brother ponies once and it was on an art site where you had to click "yes I am an adult" on a page first. (Hey I was curious) I have no problem with people being into whatever but keep it to yourselves.
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Here I should mention two things for you guys:
Poniesforparents.tumblr.com and #SafeSearchWrapUp
First one is more of a dictionary and guide for parents, but I think you might still find something useful. As for SSWU, if you want adult material off Google images they welcome anyone in the action. It's a dirty job though.
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I want the clarify my point real quick. I was try to define collector vs fan. I don't have anything against fanfic. Me, I'm not into myself, but I think it's something a fan does vs a collector.
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I agree there wasn't a stigma separate from any other girls toy before FiM. What there is now was created by Bronies. Part of me wishes FiM never existed bc this new group of "fans" have tarnished my favorite childhood line of toys. We had male members of the board before FiM but they were collectors like the rest of us.
I sometimes read Brony boards for the heck of it. Every time I am literally blown away over the topics. There is such a huge difference between fans and collectors. Think collecting stamps vs writng fanfic/fantasizing about stamps. As a collector, all I care about is picking up the ponies I like. I Def don't want to debate details of a show aimed at kids (and it IS) which I don't even think is all that great honestly. Sorry but all this obsessing over the show has earned the stigma. Ive had mlp since I was a kid in the 80s and I don't want to hear it.
I agree with everything you just said. I sometimes go to Brony sites too, just to see what's up, and what they are talking about. Its literally always just nonsense topics like "What if Ponies were Dinosaurs!" and "How cool is this edgy mlp/wwII crossover!" and "Which Ponies would you have for your slaves??" Its so weird! Sometimes I get the feeling the whole fanbase is mentally unstable. -_-
Then again maybe they are all very young, who knows. I was obsessive and weird about things I liked too when I was 15.
Hey, maybe it really IS a age issue? As far as I know, Collectors are mostly 25 - 40 yo. How old is the average Brony?
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Not all collectors are older and not all bronies/FiM fans are younger. Tho I wouldn't be surprised if the most vocal and and obnoxious bronies were the younger ones.
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Ok...this has diverted wildly off topic. Can we get it back to the original discussion or I am going to lock it for rehashing discussions we have locked in the past and just being a bit of that boring old us v them.
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I think we've pretty well established the stigma against My Little Pony has its root in sexism and belief you have to grow out of things. Not sure what else to say.
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As bad as the Being fandom can be, I would never wish it didn't exist. I (for the most part) got into ponies, via the nicer side of the fandom. It wasn't perfect even then, but it was better, and the fandom really needs a lot of work, but I'm still glad it exists, because I have fond memories of when things were nicer.
Also, the term doesn't really exclude women. In my mind, and in the mind of some others, it's a unisex term. I know it probably started as "bro" and "pony" but it just became its own word, and became genderless in my eyes. Anyone who wants to be called a brony, is a brony, regardless of their sex, in my opinion.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the off topic warning.
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I think we've pretty well established the stigma against My Little Pony has its root in sexism and belief you have to grow out of things. Not sure what else to say.
Therefore we can agree this has been talked in circles
As bad as the Being fandom can be, I would never wish it didn't exist. I (for the most part) got into ponies, via the nicer side of the fandom. It wasn't perfect even then, but it was better, and the fandom really needs a lot of work, but I'm still glad it exists, because I have fond memories of when things were nicer.
Also, the term doesn't really exclude women. In my mind, and in the mind of some others, it's a unisex term. I know it probably started as "bro" and "pony" but it just became its own word, and became genderless in my eyes. Anyone who wants to be called a brony, is a brony, regardless of their sex, in my opinion.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the off topic warning.
And with ignoring the warning I am going to lock