The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: jrr74 on September 05, 2016, 06:11:45 PM
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I have crossed paths multiple times with another bidder on eBay due to us going after the same MLP items. I know of three incidents alone where they were a non-paying bidder because I get a message that the item was relisted. I once paid double what an item was worth because they placed an initial high bid and I really wanted it. They have also had multiple retractions. I once followed an auction where MOC TAF Yum-Yum sold for $700. This individual retracted her highest bid and the second highest bidder won the auction. The problem in both of these situations is "This non-paying not only hurts sellers but also legitimite bidders. These criminals are running up bids and then not paying. If a real bidder does win, he or she may have paid an inflated price" (not my words but I couldn't have summed it up any better :blush:).
Why are there no repercussions for people like this? :enraged:
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Never a fun situation to deal with, I'm sorry you've run into this problem :mad:
Were all of these auctions from the same or different sellers? If they're all auctions from the same seller I'd be inclined to suspect there is some shill bidding going on.
Unfortunately, eBay's penalties for NPBs are not stiff enough in my opinion. Seller's can set their auctions to automatically block buyers with a certain number of unpaid item strikes (for example, I have mine set to block buyers with 2 unpaid item strikes within the past month which is the "strictest" limit you can set it to). However, some sellers may not have this restriction put in place, either because they don't know about it or don't want to be that stringent. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell exactly how many unpaid item strikes a buyer has. What you CAN see is how many bid retractions they have within the last 12 months (under the "Feedback as a Buyer" tab, it is in small black print on the right side of the screen). I find these two issues tend to go hand in hand. I don't think eBay really does much about NPBs, except maybe once it goes to an extreme? I don't really know.
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All different sellers. I am 99% sure I know who it is too. I don't think they are active on the arena however
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It's not shill bidding. I think I know who she's talking about. There are a few crazy buyers on ebay, but one in particular has been driving up auctions all over the place. She bids crazy prices, and she's been doing it consistently and long enough to have had an affect on the entire pony market. If you've ever wondered why baby sea ponies keep getting listed for $100+ loose, or any of the other crazy price jumps that seem to be common on ebay lately, there's your answer. She'll often bid(and win) multiple auctions for the same pony too, which further messes up the market. It's been going on for over a year. Sometimes she retracts before the auction is over, sometimes she actually pays, and sometimes she wins and doesn't pay. I checked her history once and saw 41 retractions on her account. FORTY ONE!
I know two sellers who have personally had problems with her. She'll sometimes pay immediately. Sometimes she pays reluctantly after dragging it out for weeks or months. She pays sometimes which is probably why she sellers listen to her excuses for so long. One of my friends lost out on a lot of ebay fees because the buyer in question had payed before, so my friend expected to ger her paymen(eventually), but never got it. It was too late to file by the time she realized there was no payment coming. There were a lot if excuses though!
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If you've ever wondered why baby sea ponies keep getting listed for $100+ loose, or any of the other crazy price jumps that seem to be common on ebay lately, there's your answer. She'll often bid(and win) multiple auctions for the same pony too, which further messes up the market.
Yup, I had brought this topic up before with regards to the ridiculous price the baby sparkle sea ponies are going for, that the prices were inflated because of two people and their bidding wars. I hate it whenever I want to bid on an item and her eBay identifier pops up as a bidder. She was a NPB on a couple of things where I was the second highest bidder.
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Sounds like sellers should block this person :(
Would you be willing to share a name? I don't want this person bidding on my auctions
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Sounds like sellers should block this person :(
Would you be willing to share a name? I don't want this person bidding on my auctions
I was thinking the same thing.
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I've seen the same thing. I've actually contacted an ebay seller after seeing not one, but a few of their auctions relisted when the winner of them the first time around didn't pay. The seller was frustrated, said the buyer gave them an excuse (one which I've heard before from this person, so she uses it a lot!) and I suggested the seller block them because of what I've seen across many ebay auctions.
This person is pretty active on Facebook, but I don't think she has an Arena account. A member here did have an issue with something they bought from her and had a long thread in the trader/support section. Unfortunately she seems to have a lot of friends who support her on facebook, but I don't think many of them know just how often she backs out of her ebay biddings. I don't feel comfortable sharing her name and ebay IDs here because I'm in the same Facebook groups and I don't want the drama that I'm sure that would bring.
I'm pretty sure most sellers she's backed out on don't leave her a NPB report because of the health excuse she often uses. It could be a legitimate health issue, but no excuse for overbidding and not paying THIS much, this often.
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Yeah, she's pretty big on the Facebook drama, and has quite the posse of friends to back her up. She's also been using her medical issues as excuses with sellers to continue this behavior, and that's probably why she hasn't been reported to ebay and on here like she should have.
I don't want to deal with the fallout and insanity that I'm sure I'd get if I publicly posted her name. I know she's been made aware of some things on the Arena, so somebody here is a friend and reporting back to her. I actually only posted here because someone started the "it could be shill bidding" thing, and I just can not sit by and watch innocent sellers get victimized by this bidder twice - once when she jerks them around and doesn't pay, and a second time for being accused of shill bidding due to her insane bidding practices.
However, I do know both her ebay accounts, and if contacted privately might be willing to share. It's a big risk for anyone to get involved in this because she does have friends in the pony community, and she's not shy about drama. I will say that I have NOT sold to her. I am getting my information about this from two completely separate good and trustworthy friends who have sold to her, and from my own ebay research(checking relisted auction/crazy priced auction histories, her own bidding retraction history, etc). It's been going on long enough for the pattern to be crystal clear if you know what to look for. I'm not going to make any claims about her health issues or anything else. I'm also not going to drag my friends into this. If they want to post about it, they're free to. They know about this thread. I'm not going to subject them to potential crazy facebook/ebay drama unwillingly.
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I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about. And I think that she bought a pony from me on ebay last month. The names changed a few times from the payment, ebay name, and then the shipping name though?
But the buyer hadn't payed in a few days and since I was leaving the country I actually had to message and ask if they could pay soon or I would have to cancel since I physically wouldn't be able to ship it.
They then paid very quickly, so not sure if its the same person.
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This is so mess up! I don't even know what to say right now. I lie, I always have something to say. This behavior should not be condoned. Prices are being inflated. I want to confess that I have bought from her multiple times and have never had a problem. Would even go so far to say that I liked her and admire her pony collection. But now that I know what I do, I no longer have respect for her. At one time, I had referred to her as my nemesis to my husband (not knowing who she was at the time). I was always being outbid by her . I just thought this bidder had an infinite amount of money. As for her friends seeing my post and getting back to her, what are they going to say. That I'm an [removed]. I am going to let you all in on a little secret, as you get older, you start caring less about what others think of you. When I was a lot more active on eBay, I would pray that she would not show interest in the auctions I was bidding because I knew I would loose or overpay. So if anybody has the right to be peed off right now, it's me and all the other good people in the pony community who have lost or overpaid on an auction she bid on but had no intentions of paying for.
:stressed:
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I was really surprised recently when I was updating my eBay price guide when I saw a baby sea pony with her float sell for $70. I'm guessing that was the result of her bidding. Luckily I was only recording baby sea ponies without their floats at the time because I am guessing she didn't pay.
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Just a quick update. I had a conversation with this individual and everything should be resolved. I don't think details are important therefore will not be going into them. I did point out how these occurrences affect other people and do believe in second chances. I am glad that I raised the topic, but even happier that I can now bury it.
Post Merge: September 06, 2016, 04:34:16 PM
I was really surprised recently when I was updating my eBay price guide when I saw a baby sea pony with her float sell for $70. I'm guessing that was the result of her bidding. Luckily I was only recording baby sea ponies without their floats at the time because I am guessing she didn't pay.
You must have missed the ones that went for over $100 recently :lol: In all honesty, it is pretty sad but I use humor to deal with stress many times
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Post Merge: September 06, 2016, 04:34:16 PM
I was really surprised recently when I was updating my eBay price guide when I saw a baby sea pony with her float sell for $70. I'm guessing that was the result of her bidding. Luckily I was only recording baby sea ponies without their floats at the time because I am guessing she didn't pay.
You must have missed the ones that went for over $100 recently :lol: In all honesty, it is pretty sad but I use humor to deal with stress many times
I only searched out one specific pony. But others have been talking on the MLPTP about the high prices for sea ponies. I didn't realize how high! I figured they were just talking about the second year adult sea ponies with their shells.
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I think the worst loose baby sea pony auction I saw her involved in was $200, or maybe even up to $300. I can't remember. Once it goes over $100, you're in crazy country anyway. It got so bad, I just stopped looking at them. I could just look at the price and know who was bidding. It wasn't just sea ponies. She's been involved in mail orders, uncommon USA releases, and international ponies too. Now I check bid histories now to see if she's bidding. If she is, I'm not. I don't have that kind of money to fight someone who's bidding with Monopoly money. It's a shame too since I am a legitimate bidder. Almost 20 years on ebay - not one single NPB. I win, I pay. Always. Occasionally I've had buyer's remorse, but I still pay. That's my fault for bidding when I shouldn't have, and the seller shouldn't suffer for it.
I sincerely hope she stops. A friend of mine just did a search on ebay for auctions that fit her usual MO, and she came up with about 20 auctions where she was probably a NPB since June(ie the auction went high, she was a bidder on it, and it was relisted later). There were probably more since you can't search by bidder, and some of the smaller ones likely slipped through the cracks. That's just since JUNE.
I think the lesson here is if you're a seller with a NPB, report them no matter what their excuse is. You don't get kicked off ebay for one NPB report. If it's a unique situation, one or two reports won't ruin their life. And the NPB reports eventually drop off anyway, so when they get out of whatever's the problem, they can come back to bid. If it's not a unique situation, this stuff will keep happening as long as nobody reports it.
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The person in question has been banned from the FB group. If someone could at least pm the eBay id to the mods so she can be added to the bad trader list I'm sure many of us would appreciate it.
I find it concerning that so many people know about the issues but are unwilling to help others out by sharing a name. If you're that worried about backlash from the person or her friends that's even more concerning.
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The person in question has been banned from the FB group. If someone could at least pm the eBay id to the mods so she can be added to the bad trader list I'm sure many of us would appreciate it.
I find it concerning that so many people know about the issues but are unwilling to help others out by sharing a name. If you're that worried about backlash from the person or her friends that's even more concerning.
I haven't had any direct transactions with her so I'm not sure it's my place. It's not exactly scamming either, just really bad ebay practices. But anyone is welcome to PM me privately. Those that have personally had bad transactions (both buyers and sellers) should let the mods know about it. You'll have more grounds to complain than I do. I know she has had mostly good transactions with members here (outside the Arena), a couple not so good that I know about, but it's mainly her ebay behavior that's frustrating and there are many Arena members that sell on ebay.
Just a quick update. I had a conversation with this individual and everything should be resolved. I don't think details are important therefore will not be going into them. I did point out how these occurrences affect other people and do believe in second chances. I am glad that I raised the topic, but even happier that I can now bury it.
I do hope this is true. 20 auctions backed out on in 3 months, and that doesn't include any before then, ended auctions under $70, BIN auctions that won't show the scrambled ID winner, auctions she bid on never intending to pay but didn't win, or retracted bids. In most cases, the relisted auctions sell for much less than the first time, which has to be really disheartening. Either it's intentional and she doesn't care how it affects others, or she has some compulsive retail therapy issues.
One ebay seller was selling ponies to raise money for a house downpayment. This girl backed out on at least 8 auctions, totaling over $800 worth, and the seller wasn't able to meet her goal. I know the thinking is the seller can get their fees back and relist, but some sellers urgently need the money, or don't have the time to keep relisting auctions. It does mess with the perceived values of the ponies, and bidders that lost out on the auctions the first time might not see it the second time... or may think there's a negative reason why it's been relisted. It really does mess things up and damages others. I do hope she understands that now.
I think the lesson here is if you're a seller with a NPB, report them no matter what their excuse is.
I totally agree. I saw a couple of sellers left negative remarks in their positive feedback, but that's just not effective. I believe you still get your sellers fees if you file a NPB report, but I don't think you can report them if you cancel the transaction.
As far as the $100+ seaponies go, unfortunately that seems to be the going rate for many of the Baby Sea Sparkle seaponies with floats. I couldn't find that $200+ loose one. The only seapony auctions I saw where this person backed out on was a lot with the ballet studio, a rarer adult seapony, conch shell, a couple of baby seaponies and floats that she won for over $370. It was relisted and sold a couple weeks later for $310.
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I've added the usernames to the non paying bidder thread.
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The person in question has been banned from the FB group. If someone could at least pm the eBay id to the mods so she can be added to the bad trader list I'm sure many of us would appreciate it.
I find it concerning that so many people know about the issues but are unwilling to help others out by sharing a name. If you're that worried about backlash from the person or her friends that's even more concerning.
I too have never sold to her, so I really never had a horse in this race. I noticed the high prices, and started to see the pattern. And for a while there was no legitimate problem. The NPB thing is relatively new. She actually used to pay for her crazy priced auctions. And yes, there is a risk to anyone who gets involved with something like this. I am not unwilling to help, but anyone who has ever had their online life turned upside down by stupid internet drama is going to be extremely cautious about getting involved. They're going to be doubly cautious if people who DO finally report these things get attacked by the pony community for not reporting it sooner. It takes time for the pattern to emerge, and it takes time for evidence to be collected. This was not a clear cut scammer case where someone was doing illegal chargebacks after getting their ponies or something like that. The bad behavior was bad ebaying, not outright scamming. This is also a person who was very publicly seriously ill, and had a history of facebook and ebay meltdowns. Nothing about this situation invited people to come forward.
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I've added the usernames to the non paying bidder thread.
Thank you!
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I don't know if it's the same person, but from what I read here it could be. I've recently bought from a very rude seller. I asked for a tracking number like five times and she made up a story about her having a terminal cancer and that the pony had been returned and then shipped again and that's why she didn't have the tracking number and so and when I said I didn't believe her she went all crazy. The pony arrived, but she was rude and lied a lot.
If it's the same person I'd love to know who she is on Facebook to block her.
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There's no excuse for something like that except hospitalization and, as noted, the report will fall off the record. If you do have the wherewithal and the determination to make good on your bid then don't bid. It just ruins buying for everyone else. How selfish. Yes, I don't really care what others think, but I always try to be polite and do the right thing. I wouldn't ever bid and not pay. I won't sell on eBay. I'm just not a shark. I don't know who this person is and I hope I don't encounter her/him.
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I've added the usernames to the non paying bidder thread.
Thank you!
Very welcome.
If anyone has an issue with me adding the names, I'm sorry. However, it needed to be done. If you have any questions or concerns my inbox is open.
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A few months back I bought a pony from her advertised as being in mint condition and when I received it I found it had 2 cancer spots. When I contacted her, she said she'd issue a partial refund and strung me along for a week with her excuses. I only received the refund after telling her that if she didn't follow through on her word within 48 hours I was going to open a case.
Here's the thread: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,378492.0.html
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If I had to hazard a guess, I would say she is doing this to inflate prices and temporarily remove competition. By bidding up insanely high and then not paying she's is insuring she can ask top dollar for her items and while at the same time leaving them the only items on eBay not tied up.
The same crap happens all the time in the mobile phone area of eBay.
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If I had to hazard a guess, I would say she is doing this to inflate prices and temporarily remove competition. By bidding up insanely high and then not paying she's is insuring she can ask top dollar for her items and while at the same time leaving them the only items on eBay not tied up.
The same crap happens all the time in the mobile phone area of eBay.
I didn't share this thought publicly. But altering, and controlling the market is a distinct other possibility. I don't know if it was the intention, or a happy fringe benefit for this individual we are speaking about now.
but like you said, other categories have people doing this. One of the most infamous was vintage (g1?) strawberry shortcake items. One person created a system that (almost) no legitimate buyers won auctions for YEARS (unless it was some items listed with BIN immediate payment the market scammer missed). the only listings with real buyers was this person's stuff. and ebay pricing became totally out of sync with what collectors charged among eachother buying/selling. ONE person. messing up a collecting catagory on ebay for YEARS. insane. 2nd bidders had to pay crazy rates for next chance offers or buy the market scammers stuff if they ebay shopped.
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So is the pony person both a seller and buyer? I got the impression she was just shopping and retracting bids pretty regularly.
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So is the pony person both a seller and buyer? I got the impression she was just shopping and retracting bids pretty regularly.
She does both. She has one ebay account that she sells from primarily, and one she uses to bid on items (unless she needs to use her seller account). She does both buying and selling on Facebook too. She was banned from one Facebook group, but has immediately opened up her own group.
Ya, the market is really sensitive to this kind of manipulation. Not just from a seller's point of view, but also buyers. Once an auction hits a high value, other buyers start seeing the item as having more value than it probably really does. It draws attention, then stirs up interest, and then desire that leads to a bidding frenzy. Next thing you know you have multiple people paying a lot for something that's not really rare or special. Many times, it's temporary, and the value drops dramatically, or the item ends up sitting on multiple sales lists at inflated prices for a long time.
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So is the pony person both a seller and buyer? I got the impression she was just shopping and retracting bids pretty regularly.
Yes. See the link northstar posted above and the non-paying bidders thread that's stickied. It'll show you how devious this person truly is. They have two separate eBay accounts and there have been at least three threads in this forum about them.
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Yikes! I was trying to figure out who it was in f/b but was unsuccessful. And she has an account here as well?
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So am I way off to call this indirect shill bidding?
A friend of mine pointed out that for those of us that have insurance on our collections we frequently use eBay sales history to value our stuff, so this could lead to insurance fraud claims as well? I mean I have the 6 sea sparkle sea ponies for example and I used to value them at about $35 each with float, now I'm putting them over $100 each with float, that's a huge price jump that's looking like its purely fabricated by this scammer. If a few dozen more ponies in my collection are inflated like this it quickly adds up to thousands of dollars in false value.
Ficklefae, thank you so much for posting detailed eBay ID information.
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So am I way off to call this indirect shill bidding?
A friend of mine pointed out that for those of us that have insurance on our collections we frequently use eBay sales history to value our stuff, so this could lead to insurance fraud claims as well? I mean I have the 6 sea sparkle sea ponies for example and I used to value them at about $35 each with float, now I'm putting them over $100 each with float, that's a huge price jump that's looking like its purely fabricated by this scammer. If a few dozen more ponies in my collection are inflated like this it quickly adds up to thousands of dollars in false value.
Ficklefae, thank you so much for posting detailed eBay ID information.
The problem is there's no way to know when she's sincerely intending to pay when she bids, and when she's not planning on paying :/ SHE may not even know till after the auction ends. She does pay for some of her auctions (sometimes immediately, sometimes only when threatened with a NPB), and sometimes she doesn't. There are also others buying these seaponies for pretty high prices too, possibly influenced by her wins, but maybe not. It's really hard to know what's causing the value changes and usually it's a mix of things.
Companies that deal with collection insurance know that collection values swing wildly. It's always going to be a guessing game, so make sure you have enough coverage. Chances are, while sea sparkle seapony values have risen, Greek ponies have dropped. Something usually balances out those wild swings a little bit.
Personally I wouldn't call it shill-bidding or anything associated with it. That's got a specific definition and probably best to not have a similar name that might confuse others. Honestly, I don't think she gives much thought to what she's doing. I kind of get the impression she's compulsively bidding on things she wants really bad at the moment and doesn't like to lose so she bids higher than what she should...and then regrets it.
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I think people should stop going to shill bidding when discussing this buyer. This isn't shill bidding - it's about an independent buyer targeting multiple sellers across ebay. Shill bidding is synonymous with bad seller behavior. That's what it is - a seller bidding up their own auctions to increase the final price. When someone says "shill bidding", it's an accusation directed at the seller, not the buyer. These sellers have been victimized enough by this buyer without having their reputations called into question.
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I'm glad this topic came up for an unconnected reason, as I had seen the activity being mentioned bidwise but only in terms of a specific seller. And this now makes me happy to know that the seller in question was just an innocent bystander, and that this was bidder madness, not anything else.
I've always hated shilling, and it's a lot harder to call people out on now. It would've been horrible to find that it was happening again, so in a way, although this is mad, damaging and a bit irresponsible, it's a better option.
Hopefully she now realises it's having a bigger impact than she thought before, and it will stop. Either way, thank you for bringing the subject up, as even if it doesn't resolve the activity, it does resolve in my mind that there isn't a shiller on the loose.
And that has to be a good thing.
Also, re NPB and reporting them - that ought to happen irrespective of who it is, unless that bidder has a genuine reason that can be borne out. There are too many people who back out of stuff now, and the only way to stamp it out is to make people responsible for the buttons they click. There are people on the other end of the internet too, and their lives can be messed up by a moment of idiocy somewhere else.
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I noticed that sea pony prices has increased drastically and stopped buying because of it. Shame and not fair to other buyers and sellers.
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When I said shill, I was not referring to the sellers that she then doesn't pay, I was referring to artificially inflating the market and then listing her own items for sale at the higher value. I'm not sure that's what happened here, but it was what I interpreted from some earlier posts. apologies if I misunderstood.
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When I said shill, I was not referring to the sellers that she then doesn't pay, I was referring to artificially inflating the market and then listing her own items for sale at the higher value. I'm not sure that's what happened here, but it was what I interpreted from some earlier posts. apologies if I misunderstood.
Shill "an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others."
I avoided the word since it could easily be seen as implicating innocent sellers involved here. (unlike the shilling situation a few years ago of a very small group of collectors/ebay sellers which came to light)
I've just used "market manipulator" in this instance
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I have had dealings with this person as a seller. I had bought a lot from them as this whole thing was going down. I was nervous about the transaction but wasn't aware of her until after I purchased the lot.
When my box arrived I was missing two ponies but they were replaced with some really great items....like a sea pony shell and extra ponies etc. She also sent me a nice note explaining that ink was on my missing ponies. Not only did she send me extras, but has since sent me a replacement for one of the ruined ponies. I haven't received it yet, but she did supply tracking. I guess if the ponies were ruined she could have messaged me before shipping the order, but has really made up for the issue in my eyes. I don't know if it is because of the drama here or what. I just wanted to add my experience to the discussion.
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As a heads up 1) the Arena does not run the bad trader list, we dont have access to it and we dont maintain it however it is very much appreciated that the id has been added to the NPB list (that we do run). 2) no one has directly reported this person's off-board id to us. In all honesty, as the behaviour is not happening on this forum there is nothing we could actually do about it other than monitor to ensure it does not bounce here in any way. Hopefully an open discussion here will demonstrate that this kind of behaviour is unfair on the whole community.
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Not to reopen this but I think I'm now having the same issue on ebay right now. I just sold 4 more expensive ponies, all to the same buyer and she has not paid yet. Its been 6 days for 3 of the items. Its a pretty big chunk of money and its getting frustrating :(
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Not to reopen this but I think I'm now having the same issue on ebay right now. I just sold 4 more expensive ponies, all to the same buyer and she has not paid yet. Its been 6 days for 3 of the items. Its a pretty big chunk of money and its getting frustrating :(
Ugh. How annoying. :( If they don't end up paying, please report them as a non paying bidder on ebay and add their ID to the list here too.
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I think if a buyer has two UPI claims filed against them, sellers can do something to their account to automatically block them from buying. Heck, you don't even have to experience the NPB personally to block them. If there are two strikes against them from other sellers, and you have this feature set up in your sellers account, they simply can not bid on your item. Of course, you have to set it up and sellers have to to file the claim when they have been wrong
Sorry about yours and everyone else' misfortune.
just like to add this to maybe help sellers
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Unpaid-Item-Strikes-Avoid-Bad-Buyers-/10000000176243843/g.html