Gift Payments and Seller Fee Etiquette

[achab1984]

I as a seller will pay the fees myself. I set up my pal pay and I agreed to that fee things when I got it!  I do pass on sales when the seller says that I need to pay the fees.  No way and sorry .......

[bluerose9978]

I as a seller will pay the fees myself. I set up my pal pay and I agreed to that fee things when I got it!  I do pass on sales when the seller says that I need to pay the fees.  No way and sorry .......

Well said and ditto!!!

[MikeysGrrrl]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

I can see where you're coming from, however I'm referring to how people have budgets, or "play money" as I like to call it. I'm not referring to not being able to afford to pay for food or rent etc because I'd rather buy ponies. Bills are always first, ponies are last.

It's not the end of the world to me to pay the sellers fees, I just feel that sellers should be upfront that they expect it as opposed to once an agreement has been made and then they spring it on you. Does $0.23 make or break the deal for me? Probably not. Does the fact that the seller waited till the last minute to inform me that fees were also expected or required make or break the deal? Yes that could very well be the deciding factor, not because it's a slight bit extra, but because their sales thread doesn't state it and they waited until an agreement was reached to mention it.

[Taxel]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.

And on top of that, someone might have a strict budget for any number of reasons. Maybe they only use money in their Paypal, got money as a gift, or allow themselves an exact amount of money per paycheck/week/etc to spend on their collections. 23 cents could very easily be the difference between someone being able or not being able to afford something.

[hellapostalia]

It's not the end of the world to me to pay the sellers fees, I just feel that sellers should be upfront that they expect it as opposed to once an agreement has been made and then they spring it on you. Does $0.23 make or break the deal for me? Probably not. Does the fact that the seller waited till the last minute to inform me that fees were also expected or required make or break the deal? Yes that could very well be the deciding factor, not because it's a slight bit extra, but because their sales thread doesn't state it and they waited until an agreement was reached to mention it.

THIS.

Outside of my pony obsession, I own and operate my own business. Every seller on the arena owns their own business too, in some way, shape or form. Whether it's one sale a year or 20 sales a month, the same principles still apply.

Even if someone is just selling off their collection with no intention of being involved in pony sales after the fact, for those few months they are operating a business (small business, side business, hobby business, call it what you like).

They're selling and trading goods, dealing with paypal and ebay fees, researching the value of their products, staging their wares (i.e. pictures), creating a list of inventory, shipping/packing costs, overhead (especially for our lovely custom creators), communicating promptly, negotiating a sale... heck, even simply creating a sales thread with a catchy title to get as many views as possible to potentially boost sales.

My point in making this comparison is that NOT mentioning up front that the buyer will be responsible for certain fees is just bad business.

Sales are lost, customers are not happy, customers do not return, and in many cases, a bad experience with a seller will be shared with other potential buyers, thus losing more sales in the longrun. Bad business.

Will my pony budget break because at the end of a transaction the seller wants to charge me an extra $0.23 for paypal fees? No. But now I feel I've been lied to, my time has been wasted, I don't know what ELSE the seller hasn't told me, I have a bad taste in my mouth and a red flag has gone up.

But, like I said before, that's just me. Someone else can buy the ponies.

I just don't understand why some sellers continue to adhere to a bad business model in which customers are kept in the dark regarding paypal fees.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand i'm done. Sorry for the rant.

[partypony566]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.

And on top of that, someone might have a strict budget for any number of reasons. Maybe they only use money in their Paypal, got money as a gift, or allow themselves an exact amount of money per paycheck/week/etc to spend on their collections. 23 cents could very easily be the difference between someone being able or not being able to afford something.

Yes I understand that, so that means if I factor in the extra $0.23 into my sale, I will lose a sale.

So for a seller, that situation is a lose lose.

[NoDivision]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.

And on top of that, someone might have a strict budget for any number of reasons. Maybe they only use money in their Paypal, got money as a gift, or allow themselves an exact amount of money per paycheck/week/etc to spend on their collections. 23 cents could very easily be the difference between someone being able or not being able to afford something.

Yes I understand that, so that means if I factor in the extra $0.23 into my sale, I will lose a sale.

So for a seller, that situation is a lose lose.

True - if someone doesn't have that money to spend the seller won't get their business either way. But the difference is if it's disclosed up front - either worked into the price or stated on the sales thread - then it saves the seller and the buyer time. There's no going back and forth in PMs only to find out later that the buyer can't afford the item if fees are tacked on at the end. That's super frustrating for both parties. The buyer is disappointed because they thought they were going to get an item only to find they can't, and the seller not only loses out on that sale but might have lost out on other business while thinking that item was as good as sold.

tl:dr - being up front about your paypal fees helps everyone!

[lovesbabysquirmy]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

Ahhhh but I have a limited budget BECAUSE I prioritize food and bills over ponies.  Which is why it's a real emotional bummer when I'm almost through the sale and find out that the seller expects more than I have. 

Money is money in a transaction regardless of the income of the participants. 

[Sunshine]

I just have to ask.... this is related, but I don't know if it was covered specifically... i was reading this thread for a while but, then lost a few pages so... :

If you guys are working with someone who doesn't necessarily mention fees up front or gift payments... and then you work on a deal and they cut you a break on the price and stuff, and then ask for payment as a gift... (out of the blue) - how do you handle that situation?

Let's say it's NOT someone you're super familiar with, it's someone with a good reputation but, perhaps you personally haven't worked with them or, maybe it's an international thing where you know you'll have to deal with shipping time waits and all things like that.

How as a buyer, do you not rudely back out of a "gift payment"?

[MikeysGrrrl]

I just have to ask.... this is related, but I don't know if it was covered specifically... i was reading this thread for a while but, then lost a few pages so... :

If you guys are working with someone who doesn't necessarily mention fees up front or gift payments... and then you work on a deal and they cut you a break on the price and stuff, and then ask for payment as a gift... (out of the blue) - how do you handle that situation?

Let's say it's NOT someone you're super familiar with, it's someone with a good reputation but, perhaps you personally haven't worked with them or, maybe it's an international thing where you know you'll have to deal with shipping time waits and all things like that.

How as a buyer, do you not rudely back out of a "gift payment"?

Good question

For me personally, when I contact a member I've already got an idea of the cost of the ponies based on the listed prices, so if the seller decides to cut me a deal and knock some money off, I don't think it would bother me so much to pay the paypal fees. I would just rather the seller gives me the full price.

When I message a seller I ask how much to ship the following to Canada, or what will be the total cost of the items and shipping? If a seller wants the paypal fees to be covered by me then just include it in the total amount given to me. Whether there is a discount or not, that's how I prefer it to be done.

I haven't backed out in a situation like what you're referring to, simply because I already know that I can afford the ponies when I initialize communication, so if the seller is going to take a little money off, that just helps me out even more

I don't know if that helped you or not.

[hellapostalia]

I just have to ask.... this is related, but I don't know if it was covered specifically... i was reading this thread for a while but, then lost a few pages so... :

If you guys are working with someone who doesn't necessarily mention fees up front or gift payments... and then you work on a deal and they cut you a break on the price and stuff, and then ask for payment as a gift... (out of the blue) - how do you handle that situation?

Let's say it's NOT someone you're super familiar with, it's someone with a good reputation but, perhaps you personally haven't worked with them or, maybe it's an international thing where you know you'll have to deal with shipping time waits and all things like that.

How as a buyer, do you not rudely back out of a "gift payment"?

Good question

For me personally, when I contact a member I've already got an idea of the cost of the ponies based on the listed prices, so if the seller decides to cut me a deal and knock some money off, I don't think it would bother me so much to pay the paypal fees. I would just rather the seller gives me the full price.

When I message a seller I ask how much to ship the following to Canada, or what will be the total cost of the items and shipping? If a seller wants the paypal fees to be covered by me then just include it in the total amount given to me. Whether there is a discount or not, that's how I prefer it to be done.

I haven't backed out in a situation like what you're referring to, simply because I already know that I can afford the ponies when I initialize communication, so if the seller is going to take a little money off, that just helps me out even more

I don't know if that helped you or not.

Ditto @MikeysGrrl ~ good question!

I'll try to put myself in your shoes Sunshine 

Personally, I would be a bit put off b/c the seller did not mention the paypal fees for the reasons I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

However, I would be appreciative that the seller has given me a bit of a deal on my purchase.

I would also NEVER pay as a gift to just protect myself (especially if it's an international thing, and particularly if I did not know the seller well/at all, even with great feedback).

If I REALLY wanted the pony/ponies, I would look at the discount I was given, and figure out (or request from seller) what the exact paypal fee would be.

If I were ok with that fee (meaning that fee didn't negate my discount completely i.e. I'm still getting a deal I'm comfortable with) I would thank the seller for the discount, tell them I'd be happy to purchase, but let them know I make a point of never paying as a gift just to retain my protection as a buyer.

I would then offer to pay the paypal fee for them, and include that with my total for the pony/ponies and shipping. That way, I get the ponies and the discount, and the seller doesn't have to worry about fees.

**I would also (very professionally, but with kindness) let them know that while I am extremely excited about the ponies and the great transaction, I am a little disappointed that they didn't let me know about paying as a gift up front. I look forward to buying from them again, but I would really appreciate them letting me know all the fees involved from the beginning, just so we're on the same page    **

I may wait to do this until the transaction is finished, and my ponies are in hand, depending on the temperament of the seller.

On the other hand, if I end up not feeling that it's a fair deal (and/or other red flags have gone up), I have no problem letting the seller know (again, with kindness and professionalism)...

... that while I appreciate the discount and I love their ponies, I unfortunately don't make pony purchases as a gift to retain my buyer protection. And although they are a kind seller with great communication, I really felt uncomfortable they didn't let me know about the fees up front.

Man oh man I really have to stop writing novels!! Congrats if anyone made it through all that! 

[MikeysGrrrl]

After reading the above I realize that I clearly didn't read Sunshine's post properly

I am not comfortable paying as gift unless it's someone I'm very familiar with (have done multiple purchases from, regular contact with etc), and I do appreciate being told up front about that, as like Hella stated, paying as a gift eliminates the buyer protection.

I would polite and upfront about how I felt, if a seller was insistant that it still be paid as a gift even after explaining why I'm not, then I would say that I wasn't comfortable purchasing from someone who doesn't want their buyers to be protected if something happens.

[kezrob23]

Just to throw another spanner in the works, do sellers ask for payment as gift to avoid PayPal fees or to avoid possible tax/income issues? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere about PayPal and taxable income... But I am also full of head cold, and blonde

[kitkatvintage]

Just to throw another spanner in the works, do sellers ask for payment as gift to avoid PayPal fees or to avoid possible tax/income issues? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere about PayPal and taxable income... But I am also full of head cold, and blonde

If you take in $20,000 or more in a year, Paypal is required to report it to the IRS (this is for the US only. I have no idea what Paypal does or does not report for other countries). That $20k includes money to be used for shipping costs: for example, if I sold a pony for $10 & charged $5 for shipping, that is a $15 transaction even though all $15 does not end up as profit for the seller. It's the seller's responsibility to claim the shipping & fees in their taxes.

I'm not sure how "gift" payments factor into that total.

[hellapostalia]

Just to throw another spanner in the works, do sellers ask for payment as gift to avoid PayPal fees or to avoid possible tax/income issues? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere about PayPal and taxable income... But I am also full of head cold, and blonde

Ha! Sorry about the head cold, and I'm sure your response has nothing to do with you being blonde (they have more fun, after all!!) 

Ditto Kitkat. As of 2011 (to my knowledge no other updates have been made), sellers making an income from paypal are only taxed in the US if they 1) make more than $20,000/yr from sales and 2) have more than 200 transactions in the same calendar year. Sellers must meet BOTH criteria to be taxed, not either/or.

** If anyone has any other info about taxable paypal fees please let me know!!**

So, to answer your question, I think sellers are asking for payment as a gift to offset their fees, not to 'work around' US tax codes.

Hope you feel better!!