Is buying from Taobao ethical?

[Galactica]

Taobao is not "stolen" ponies.

I'm honestly tired of posting about it- since no one seems to listen anyway.  Cat is right (see above). 

I do wish people would actually do some research (not that hard these days with google) before immediately assuming the worst.  Need some help?  This guy writes lots of interesting articles about issues related to the Taobao market and the negative impact on US businesses.  http://www.qualityinspection.org/china-factory-taobao/  Keep in mind though that he is an American writer who has a definite opinion on the whole thing, so his stuff is not entirely without bias. 

Be careful of jumping to conclusions my friends...

[Falconaitae]

personally I couldn't care less about Hasbro's income, but this whole system of exploiting cheap labour is quite unethical. Responsibility is both on western corporations and chinese political and economical system... as for buying ponies from Taobao... it's as much unethical as buying straight from Hasbro, but what can you do, since half of our stuff is made in china anyway.

What I find really evil though is selling Taobao ponies as "real" ones, cause then you' re kinda cheating on fellow collectors (even if there's no visible difference) and you're not a poor chinese worker to be justified for this    

[hathorcat]

Taobao is not "stolen" ponies.

I'm honestly tired of posting about it- since no one seems to listen anyway.  Cat is right (see above). 

I do wish people would actually do some research (not that hard these days with google) before immediately assuming the worst.  Need some help?  This guy writes lots of interesting articles about issues related to the Taobao market and the negative impact on US businesses.  http://www.qualityinspection.org/china-factory-taobao/  Keep in mind though that he is an American writer who has a definite opinion on the whole thing, so his stuff is not entirely without bias. 

Be careful of jumping to conclusions my friends...

LOL - this article details almost exactly with my friend goes through at the moment. Although her line is not branded so they don't have a logo issue but its almost exactly the same in regards minor changes to original designs in order to resell. Just goes to show how wide spread a trend this truly is.

[popyduggan]

It's unethical, they're stolen, but Hasbro, dare I say, doesn't use or listen to or answer to collector suggestions like Mattel does so I don't really care if they lose our business because imo, we're underserved customers. That's just my opinion btw.

Oh yeah, where's a FS AJ? We can't even get a crystal tie-dyed one? Really? The $200 ebay pony can't get a rerelease, but Pinkie Pie can? Okay, suit yourself Hasbro. /rant

[DancingPhoenix]

The whole collector argument is just a "no" to me here. Like rozencrantz said, it doesn't justify a dang thing. Hasbro doesn't make ponies for collectors and bronies or whoever else. It is first and foremost a children's toy to make money. Yes they have done some things for collectors and bronies on the side, but we are not their main audience.

[Shiromisa]

The whole collector argument is just a "no" to me here. Like rozencrantz said, it doesn't justify a dang thing. Hasbro doesn't make ponies for collectors and bronies or whoever else. It is first and foremost a children's toy to make money. Yes they have done some things for collectors and bronies on the side, but we are not their main audience.

Exactly. I'm still not sure where I stand on the ethics of Taobao (but I'll read that article when I get home from work), but the "they don't give me what I want therefore I can steal from them" argument stinks. And is counterproductive! Why should they make products you want if you're purposefully not paying for what they're making now?

[BrightIdea]

Hm, I guess for me it depends on the intention of the person/factory who sold the products, but yes, I would buy from Taobao. If I see something that I want, I will buy it.

If it is simply waste that would have been thrown in the garbage, I am all for sending the ponies anywhere but the landfill.

If the manufacturer was making extra ponies with Hasbro's tools and molds just for the purpose of selling them themselves, then yes, I would find that unethical from my point of view.

I would pass judgement if I knew any of the specifics, but I don't. If Hasbro doesn't want people to sell/give away left over ponies, then I believe they need to work this out with their third party manufacturer or choose a different country to manufacture in.

[Galactica]

Gosh - I guess I can't resist.

Okay, well the ponies we see on Taobao are a sprinkling of different things.

1.  Flat out knock offs  There are two subcategories for these.  The ones that are clearly fakies and the ones that look pretty close (like the fakie blind bags).  Different countries have different rules about these kinds of toys.  In the US, the rules are very strict.  Elsewhere, not so much. Examples Demon Donkey, those cute plushies that have MLP tags, the fakie FS Applejack and Rarity...visitors can't see pics , please register or login


2.  Quality rejects and mistakes they were made for Hasbro- but something in the process went wrong  (ie they accidentally used the wrong mold, or painted the wrong symbol on, or put the wrong hair in).  For example:visitors can't see pics , please register or login


3.  Color tests/prototypes that the factory made according to Hasbro specs.  The factory may have made a batch of 10 - 20.  However, Hasbro may have only needed say 6 for their purposes and didn't order any more.  The factory sold the rest along with the other extra ponies and QC rejects who specializes in re-selling them on Taobao.  (These are the ones that collectors really hope for- actual prototypes-  like the big eyed Muffin pony, Wingless FS Dash, white FS Celestia)- the problem is that we don't always know whether the pony is of this type- or just an early appearance of one of these other categories.

4. Extra ponies -  The factory that makes ponies for Hasbro might also make a bunch extra, over and above what Hasbro ordered, (ie say they make 6000 pinkie pies instead of the 4000 that Hasbro ordered)  - they sell the rest to buyers in the Chinese market who specialize in selling stuff on Taobao and Alibaba.   

[Twilight Pink]

Gosh - I guess I can't resist.

Okay, well the ponies we see on Taobao are a sprinkling of different things.

1.  Flat out knock offs  There are two subcategories for these.  The ones that are clearly fakies and the ones that look pretty close (like the fakie blind bags).  Different countries have different rules about these kinds of toys.  In the US, the rules are very strict.  Elsewhere, not so much. Examples Demon Donkey, those cute plushies that have MLP tags, the fakie FS Applejack and Rarity...visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Hey, I'd take a fakie FS Applejack any day to fill the void in my collection! 

[Unicorn_pops]

Gosh - I guess I can't resist.

Okay, well the ponies we see on Taobao are a sprinkling of different things.

1.  Flat out knock offs  There are two subcategories for these.  The ones that are clearly fakies and the ones that look pretty close (like the fakie blind bags).  Different countries have different rules about these kinds of toys.  In the US, the rules are very strict.  Elsewhere, not so much. Examples Demon Donkey, those cute plushies that have MLP tags, the fakie FS Applejack and Rarity...visitors can't see pics , please register or login


2.  Quality rejects and mistakes they were made for Hasbro- but something in the process went wrong  (ie they accidentally used the wrong mold, or painted the wrong symbol on, or put the wrong hair in).  For example:visitors can't see pics , please register or login


3.  Color tests/prototypes that the factory made according to Hasbro specs.  The factory may have made a batch of 10 - 20.  However, Hasbro may have only needed say 6 for their purposes and didn't order any more.  The factory sold the rest along with the other extra ponies and QC rejects who specializes in re-selling them on Taobao.  (These are the ones that collectors really hope for- actual prototypes-  like the big eyed Muffin pony, Wingless FS Dash, white FS Celestia)- the problem is that we don't always know whether the pony is of this type- or just an early appearance of one of these other categories.

4. Extra ponies -  The factory that makes ponies for Hasbro might also make a bunch extra, over and above what Hasbro ordered, (ie say they make 6000 pinkie pies instead of the 4000 that Hasbro ordered)  - they sell the rest to buyers in the Chinese market who specialize in selling stuff on Taobao and Alibaba.   

Exactly
These ponies on Taobao are not stolen, they were bought from the factories because "they weren't wanted/needed" So who's it hurting that they then resale to others that actually want them? I order all the time and will continue to do so, nothing wrong in my eyes.

[Vintergatan]

sometimes i wonder if people read the thread?

How many times now have people explained the specifics that say that ponies are not stolen?

I guess it's best if we just let Hasbro destroy all those ponies, cause waste sounds very ethical, we don't get enough of that already.

[Vertefae]

Until hasbro releases a statement saying these ponies are not stolen property I refuse to purchase them.

[xeevee]

I lived in China, and bought from Toabao regularly.  Not just ponies, but clothes, tea, pottery, all kinds of things.  It's not some shady back ally website, it's basically the Chinese version of Amazon or ebay.  Everyone knows about it and shops there, and it is not illegal there or trust me, the Chinese government would shut it down.  They're not exactly against censoring the internet.  Everyone in China shops on taobao if they have a steady income. 

The two cats explained everything really well, but let me just address Loa's comment about stealing.  As a completely general over the top stereotype of the people of China as I saw them living there, they are super honest.  They have different ideas of what is acceptable (for example there is no such thing as copyright infringement or art theft in China), but they're honest.  I could leave things out in public for ages and no one would touch them.  Heck, a bunch of gardens in Beijing and just flowers in little plastic pots, just sitting out in the open where anyone could take them.  Yes, there is stealing and yes there are con artists, but they're pretty much exclusively in the foreigner's part of town.  There is no way someone would take stuff home from the factory, unless they were allowed to. 

Here is another thing about China, people doing most jobs aren't paid a lot.  The people who were from China who were doing the exact same job as my husband earned less than a quarter of what my hubby did just because he was a foreigner.  I was friends with a family, both adults had phd's one was an engineer the other a mathematician, and they lived in a one bedroom flat with their daughter and one of their mothers, because that is what that two high Chinese income people could afford.  How do you think factory workers live?  If hasbro don't want things headed to taobao, regardless of if it's stolen or not, they should pay people a living wage, and stop taking advantage of China.

Really if anything it is more ethical in my eye to buy from taobao, then the money is actually going to the source.  I feel it's more unethical funding a company where human rights are so insignificant.

[rosierjay]

i work in a factory, that extras are available to employees for private use, and nothing else.
if we sell any of the products, either one or multiple we are fired.

i don't have problems with the rejects, prototypes and the mistake ponies.
what i have a problem with is the extra they might make just for selling themselves.

that is what i call theft. if i made an extra 20 at the factory, said "oops, we didn't need these" then pocket them, that is still theft. even if the company allows it, they are still knowingly profiting off of someone Else's  idea.

not arguing of whether or not it is ethical in China, I just don't think it's right to buy things where we do have copyright laws for those things. if i watch a show on cruchyroll before it's copyrighted in america, ok, but if i want to watch it again and it has been licensed, i buy the dvds, or wait till i can afford it.

one thing i don't understand, usually in the forms we try to avoid confrontational discussions, but
this is a fairly confrontational topic....

[lovesbabysquirmy]

i work in a factory, that extras are available to employees for private use, and nothing else.
if we sell any of the products, either one or multiple we are fired.

i don't have problems with the rejects, prototypes and the mistake ponies.
what i have a problem with is the extra they might make just for selling themselves.

that is what i call theft. if i made an extra 20 at the factory, said "oops, we didn't need these" then pocket them, that is still theft. even if the company allows it, they are still knowingly profiting off of someone Else's  idea.

not arguing of whether or not it is ethical in China, I just don't think it's right to buy things where we do have copyright laws for those things. if i watch a show on cruchyroll before it's copyrighted in america, ok, but if i want to watch it again and it has been licensed, i buy the dvds, or wait till i can afford it.

Thank you... you explained my feelings about it better than I could.