Unpopular Pony Opinions

[Taffeta]

I'd love to know the story behind "Lilac" and "Score". Normally I'd assume they were just early names for them that were changed after it was too late to fix it for the cartoon, but that's the only place those names have ever turned up, right? I know there's a catalogue page or something out there that lists some early names for the other brothers - Steamer's original name was Casey IIRC - but I think Quarterback is still Quarterback on there.. and none of the *other* boys had their names messed up in the cartoon... so what gives? It really feels like there must be an explanation for them - they didn't just get those names out of nowhere - but where DID they come from...?

Oh Casey would have been a cute name for Steamer! I'm trying to remember who was called Lilac? I don't think we have an actual pony named Lilac do we? I want one now.

That would be Amethyst/Sparkle. Wouldn't Lilac have been better? I don't know *rolls eyes*.

I'm assuming it's a preproduction name, though. Thinking of the Mountain Boys...Ice Crystal and Thundercloud were Frosty and Storm respectively, and Thundercloud's name was still Storm close enough to production to get a tag for Snuzzle's parlour under that name...so that must have been a late change.

I'm assuming there were some copyright issues with those two names, even here in the UK.

I suspect names sometimes went through many changes before production.

I find it interesting that Quarterback's name in the UK was one of the 2 from the first set that they didn't change, yet in the animation...he has a different name. I always assumed they tried to make the Adventure Boy/BB ponies 'less American' when they brought them out. Because we had the Mountain Boys when the US had the brothers, I sometimes wonder if they thought the big brother ponies were 'too american' and the MBs were to be instead.

But then they changed all the names (from 'Big Brother' to 'Adventure Boy').

I don't really understand why they changed Salty to Tug, since Salty isn't particularly 'American'. Steamer, well,  fine, a steamer is a boat, so that would've been confusing. 4Speed...that's not even a name, I'm sorry, although I'm not sure Trucker is a great alternative given we use 'lorry' rather than 'truck'. And First Base I guess because it's a term in rounders, even if it has an awkward US slang meaning - that isn't really a thing here. Slugger wouldn't have worked, especially in the 80s, where baseball was basically unknown here.

The two that are the same, Tex and Quarterback, are both quite American in contrast. Maybe that's why they gave up on 'brother' and went with 'Adventure' xD. But I wondered why they didn't make Quarterback something to do with rugby.

It's just made weirder still given the existence of the name 'Score'. Which would have probably been neutral enough for a UK market, but didn't happen.

[Leave a Whisper]

Well considering her symbol is a flower shaped medallion? But no. Amethyst is fine. And I'd rather have a g3 named Lilac, just because they really upped the details on the symbols then. Purple and green hair, lush two-toned green eyes. A deep purple plastic color. That would be so pretty! But what species and pose?

I did not know that the mountain boys had prototype names? Although I'm glad they got the names they did. Tug is fine with me, Tugboat would have been better. I rather like Slugger.

[Taffeta]

I can't see, unfortunately, on the scan Prance sent me years ago of the Hasbro 1987 catalogue, but it looks like the names might be Frosty and Storm there. I first knew about those names because when I was writing to Hasbro in 1995, they compiled a written list for me which they typed up from their records. I guess from these booklets. But they included those names. Then there was the tag for Snuzzle's grooming parlour with 'Storm' on it, which I was sure I had a photograph of but can't find right now.

I went to look for it on the Wiki and they don't even have Snuzzle's parlour mentioned. Whoops.

But anyhow. It exists. There's a tag for Sunburst and one for Storm.

Amethyst is a better name than Lilac, but Lilac is better than Sparkle I am not at all biased

[Leave a Whisper]

[SpacePinto]

The Quest of the Princess Ponies is one of the most horrible spectacles in G1 animation for me. It absolutely trashed the personalities and names of the beautiful gemstone princesses I'd adored as a kid in the comics, so I never really warmed to that at all.

I know this is probably a really unpopular opinion here, but to me that was actually a better approach to them. As much as I love the British comics, one thing that I realized really bothered me about them is how probably all characters are always stereotypically nice and polite and only show negative emotions when it is justified, like when someone does something bad. What I really enjoyed about the US cartoon is how the writers deliberately made some characters into jerks, grumps or otherwise made them flawed, it makes it much more interesting. Yeah, the princess ponies in the cartoon are annoying brats who need to learn their lesson, and that's why I love them so much.

[Heelys]

I'm with SpacePinto on this one. Making the princesses spoiled jerks gave them so much more personality-- if we were introduced to them in the cartoon just through Spike and the Bushwoolies being found by Royal Blue, it would tell us so much less about them than the scene of them snowballing into an argument because of Tiffany's hoof polish drama.

Also, one time I constructed an argument about how the princess ponies can be seen as a critique of the regency era and Monarchism in general. Not because I believed it was that deep. But because that sort of overanalysis is really funny.

[Taffeta]

SpacePinto, that's basically like saying the G1 animation was all about tea parties and sleepovers. Which it clearly wasn't.

The G1 comics are full of flawed characters, including among the ponies.

The biggest problem with the animated princesses being spoiled brats is that they are all the same. There are very few nuances in their personalities.  This idea that somehow them being spoiled makes them deeper characters than the comic portrayals is really a bit silly, because all six princesses in the comics had their own personality traits and thus were themselves, flaws and all.

It's not that even in the UK comics, the princesses were perfect or always polite. I'm remembering Princess Ruby impatiently nagging and scolding at baby ponies because she's trying to impress a prince...and Amethyst constantly interfering and messing up everything she tried to do. But the important aspect of the princesses here is that they had individual personalities, with flaws or strengths, and thus were distinct from one another and from other characters in the narrative. Even their dragons had individual personalities, and sometimes, stories where they were the main focus.

I've never been able to see much separation og the princesses in the animation. They go well with the bushwoolies because like the bushwoolies, they think and act with the same mind and exhibit the same cliche behaviour. A spoiled princess is not especially original. Six is just overkill.

It's probably true that their argument gave them more personality in the show than would have been there  if they had not had it, but that's setting the bar for personality pretty low.

The fact they were their own characters with their own challenges and issues in the comics is to me just a much better approach. But the same can be said for the Big Brother ponies, honestly. They have more distinct comic characters, too. They're just not as annoying in Somnambula as the Princesses are in the Quest.

These are both specials from which these characters never have a reprise. There simply isn't enough animated opportunity to give them this more personality you guys are fixated on. The comics allowed the princess ponies about a year and a half of spotlight. Of course they're going to get more depth. It's just common sense.

I feel like you probably can make an analysis regarding attitudes to royalty in the UK and the US interpretations of a few things, especially Majesty. But I have no idea why it would relate to the regency...especially given that damsel hats are definitely mediaeval.

[Leave a Whisper]

Hasbro US-How do we teach rich brats  a lesson about working together?

Sudden poverty?

Nah, that's been done before.

Befriending others not in their social circle?

Bo-ring!

Fleeing for their lives from a pack of power hungry evil lava demons?

Bingo! Give that person a raise!

[Taffeta]

Fleeing for their lives from a pack of power hungry evil lava demons?

Bingo!

It does make you wonder, doesn't it.

The sad thing is that I think maybe the lava demons had more personality at times. Although it has been a while since I watched it, and I may be remembering wrong.

[Leave a Whisper]

Fleeing for their lives from a pack of power hungry evil lava demons?

Bingo!

It does make you wonder, doesn't it.

The sad thing is that I think maybe the lava demons had more personality at times. Although it has been a while since I watched it, and I may be remembering wrong.

Well, if you count Sunbow's typical power hungry ruler who abuses their minions as having more personality. 

That said, I like a lot of the imagery in QotPP.


Especially the reflective gleam on his eyes when he became a crystal demon. And the ice demons.

[Taffeta]

Fleeing for their lives from a pack of power hungry evil lava demons?

Bingo!

It does make you wonder, doesn't it.

The sad thing is that I think maybe the lava demons had more personality at times. Although it has been a while since I watched it, and I may be remembering wrong.

Well, if you count Sunbow's typical power hungry ruler who abuses their minions as having more personality. 

That said, I like a lot of the imagery in QotPP.


Especially the reflective gleam on his eyes when he became a crystal demon. And the ice demons.

Well, based on the previously cited argument that being a jerk is synonymous with having more personality, I guess that would make the main lava demon the character with the most overall...

The things I remember from it are the name Lilac, Ruby's silly red tail, the fact the princesses are all basically the same character...and the one song, by rights I should be queen (which I admit is a bit catchy). The bushwoolies are cute, but they're cuter in Sweet Stuff & the Treasure Hunt. And that's kind of all really.

[Heelys]

No need to get snippy. It's the unpopular opinions thread, we're not gonna agree on everything.

[SpacePinto]

It's not that even in the UK comics, the princesses were perfect or always polite. I'm remembering Princess Ruby impatiently nagging and scolding at baby ponies because she's trying to impress a prince...and Amethyst constantly interfering and messing up everything she tried to do.

No, I meant more like a character having a meaner streak as an established part of their personality, just for the sake of it. Being bossy towards younger characters isn't even a flaw when you think about it, it is often actually portrayed as a positive trait, a sign of maturity and strength, not to mention that if she only did it this once and for a specific reason then usually she's not even that. I think a good example of what I'm talking about is Gusty. As a kid I simply hated her just because of how she was mean to Wind Whistler in that one episode, but now when I look back at it, I'm actually glad they made her like that because it allowed to stir things up a little between the characters. From what I remember, in the UK comics she was rather friendly and motherly, and the same applied to other characters that were more on the jerk side in the cartoon (like Lickety Split for example). Which brings us to the one problem I actually have about the UK comics (because overall I like them), that while of course ponies did have different personalities, liked different things and did different stuff, they all seemed generally friendly and easy to get along with, the only instance I remember of one of them being mean was Posey calling Applejack and Fizzy stupid one time, but like I mentioned before, she actually had a reason because they were acting irresponsible. Personally, I like it more when some of the characters by default aren't easy to like, when they either have to grow on you or you just have to accept that at best you will reluctantly tolerate them. That's probably why I like the cartoon princesses more, I don't really remember what personalities they had in the comics so I'll just take your word for it, but to me six annoying brats is just more interesting than six ponies that are likeable in different ways.

[Taffeta]

No need to get snippy. It's the unpopular opinions thread, we're not gonna agree on everything.

I wasn't being snippy. I might have been sarcastic. But we were comparing the comics and the tv show princesses. I'm not arguing with your opinion about the fight being important, but I don't see how it related to the wider discussion.

@SpacePinto, I accept your rationale, although I don't agree with it. I don't see the animated princesses as being mean, though. Your argument holds more merit with Gusty, because Gusty was grumpy at times in the animation. But the princesses themselves are just not really...Spoiled is not the same as mean; it's no different as a character flaw than Firefly getting herself into trouble, or Majesty's sending Lickety Split running all around ponyland to lose weight (that is a bit mean, but Majesty DID have that aspect to her character).

I think also that the pony comic had such a balance of characters that weren't all ponies.

But I don't think it's as clearcut as you're saying. Do the ponies need to be 'mean' to have more depth of character? Does 'meanness' alone define depth?  For me, that's a kind of 2 dimensional way of looking at character. Real 3d characters aren't actually 'bad' or 'good' but a balance and a mixture. Being naughty, being impatient, being selfish, being quick-tempered, being disobedient, being scaredy, being scatterbrained...all those are nuanced character details, right?

So Gusty in the animation, yes, she has that edge to her behaviour. But she's a pretty rare example, since most of the ponies in the animation also don't meet your criteria for a 'mean streak'. The argument also can't be carried over to the princesses. They're not mean, just spoiled. If they were, they wouldn't be 'reformed' somewhat by the end of the episode. And even Gusty is sort of put in her place by the way that episode pans out...so is Gusty really mean, or just sharp-tongued? Is she meaner than Majesty in the comic, sending Lickety Split on a futile errand simply to make her exercise?

...Maybe you see my point. The thing is the comics have a lot more time and space to explore characters, both pony and otherwise, that the animation doesn't always have. Gusty gets multiple media appearances. The princesses get one. It's just not a comparison.

Also, the tv show and comic don't always use the same basis for characters anyway. (Nurse) Gusty is not the same kind of character as SS Gusty is in the animation. Maybe because SS Gusty didn't exist in the UK either. I'm not 100% sure if Nurse Gusty is the original or the movie star, but it's still not the same Gusty.  In spite of that, a lot of the UK characterisations are derived in some way from the US backcard stories, which makes the TV show the bigger deviation. (Shady, Magic Star, etc for two examples).

 I just looked up Tiffany;s backcard story. It's not quite Pearl and her crying wishing pearl tears when she's happy, but it does involve her crying, and one of the other princesses kindly coming to her rescue. So Tiffany's actual US box story is also closer to the UK characterisation than the animation.

And we're still talking about 'the princesses' as one entity when we talk about Quest. Which is the crux of my argument. They not only have no character depth, they are not distinguishable as individuals - except maybe Tiffany, because she gets that bit of extra attention. Whether you like the comic personas or not, they are at least distinct and thus can be identified independently by those characteristics.

You also have to make some allowance for difference in English and cultural tendency. American English is more direct, British English is more nuanced. Politeness can absolutely be weaponised in British English, and so you'd be much less likely to find direct, obvious 'bad' in the language use than you might in the US TV show. I'm British, and I've never stopped and thought about the comic ponies being 'good' or 'polite'.

 It could simply be a matter of indirect British English vs the more direct American English of the TV series.

But that's a whole other discussion and this post is already too long, so I'm going to squash it before it wakes my inner language geek.

[MJNSEIFER]

Hmm... I never knew that the Big Brother Ponies were also called Adventure Ponies - I feel that would have been better everywhere, as they clearly weren't any pony's brother, so the name never made any sense.

I guess my ultimate unpopular opinion here by far would be that, even though I love the toylines and wish I'd grown up with them, I am always going to think of the cartoons first (despite the fact I will always think of all "canons" when it comes to inspiration) - I know the overall response to this will basically be "Oh, it's a brony thing...", but I do have a love and respect for the toylines as well, but brony or not, the animations was what I started with, so I do value them.

Also, as something that would count as an "Unpopular Brony Opinion" more than anything... it doesn't bother me when ponies use their hooves to pick things up. 

Bronies seem to make a song and dance about it, when any non-G4 generation does it, yet I actually think it looks better than (non-unicorn) ponies using their mouths to pick everything up, which looks silly to me - and this isn't hate towards bronies, I am one, but I don't see the big deal about this, I actually feel pick up with hooves, and just "accepting" it works better, and looks less silly.