I hereby challenge the needfulness of "peroxide fading"

[Mohawk]

Let me premise this by saying that I've never had cause to use peroxide fading yet, so this is all just theory in my head. ...For now, muaha.

Point one: I've seen people note over and over again that when you're peroxide fading a pony, it won't work unless the pony-and-peroxide jar is placed in the sun. It's also generally agreed that peroxide fading is more effective than plain, dry sun fading.

Point two: I also know that water/moisture enhances UV rays. As in, you'll get a tan/burn much faster if you're swimming in clear water or spraying yourself with a spritzer bottle (or smearing yourself with cocoa butter, which I will never understand) than you would just being in the sun with dry skin. I'd link to citations here, but I'm lazy. It's true, though.

Which leads me to question whether the peroxide is necessary at all? If the peroxide doesn't work on its own, then that implies that the sun is the real agent at work here. But people agree that it seems to work better when the pony is sitting in diluted peroxide. Doesn't it seem, assuming both points are true, that "peroxide fading" might work just as well if the pony were sitting in a jar of plain water in the sun? That the real catalyst is just the water content of the peroxide and not its... peroxidiness?

Personally, I feel this is worth looking into, as if it's found that water works just as well, it will give collectors another way to avoid leaching chemicals into their ponies.

I would begin this experiment today, but I don't have suitable ponies to have both a control and a variable. Ideally, both would have to be the same color and with a similar level and type of tarnish or stain. Would anyone here be willing to undergo this experiment and document the results for us? Or does anyone have some ponies or baits that they'd be willing to donate (or sell) for the purposes of ADVANCING SCIENCE?

(Or has anyone already tried this and can debunk my hypothesis with firm evidence right now? Because I'd totally accept that.)

[NoDivision]

INTERESTING. you raise some valid points... I'd be curious for someone to be able to try it.

We know that peroxide can in fact make a diference, because people use the cream or paste to smear on solid surfaces like playsets and it fades marks (I believe without sun. Well sun is used for a heat source in some instances, but the rays of the sun are not penetrating the plastic as the paste is opaque.) However, the liquid peroxide that people are using is of course far more diluted, so isn't working as drastically.

The only way to know might be a controled side by side experiment as yo suggested. Anyone have any victims?

[LadySatine]

Challenge accepted! Lol not really, just wanted to pop in and say that. /BarneyfromHowIMetYourMother...

[lemontwist]

It would be cool to see the results! Even if peroxide works better in the end, it the plain water works well too than it'd still be really good to know.

You'd need three ponies, one for peroxide, one for water, and one for regular dry sunfading.

[ponylady]

I am interested in seeing this also. 
 
Sooo who's going to try it first?

[Rhini]

I've been meaning to start sun-fading some ponies as it's finally getting sunny out again, I can check when I get home to see if I have a few with similar levels of yellow/stain. I also have peroxide already as well (though i've heard this makes them hard? Is that why people dilute it?).


I'm thinking I would put one pony out there with nothing on it, one with diluted peroxide in a mason jar, and another in plain water in a mason jar. They would have to be baby ponies seeing as the mason jars aren't very big, but I'm pretty sure I have quite a few baity baby moondancers and baby glorys to try For some reason those two are always nasty and never have tails when I find them


I'm open to suggestions/tips to make this a better more scientific experiment! Like for instance, I was thinking about checking them once a week, and turning them halfway through the week. When I take them out of the jars, should I replace the water/solution with new stuff or continue to use the old? Should I completely submerge the pony, as most people agree it's the water's reflection that makes the difference?


Another interesting thing to try may be to set up a backdrop of foil to act like one of those tanning things people hold and see if that makes a difference.


This sounds like fun!    I love testing/experimenting xD

[mlp4me]

I'd love to join in on this except the weather has been quite drab here lately; I may have to wait a few weeks for spring to finally kick in...
I've got a baby moondancer w/cancer that I'd like to try with just the sun/water to see if she'll lighten up.

I sunfaded a Majesty in H202, came out nice and white, but hard as a rock, used the same H202 for the entire time she was in the jar. And used that same H202 when I sunfaded Raspberry Jam. Each pony bubbled like crazy upon first entry into H202, after awhile they do not bubble as much.


Where is templeflower? She's quite knowledgable regarding this and has had many good answers regarding this process. I hope she'll chime in soon!

[sd_dreamcrystal]

Being I've tried using both methods on a Baby Moondancer (my restored one). There is a few points I wish I could try.. but I'd need 3 to 4 ponies in a similar condition (I'd ask for babies because of their small size).

When I was working on Baby Moondancer, I knew normal sunfading wouldn't work on her. So I went with with 3 ways, Normal sunfading at one point, using 10%benzoyl peroxide cream on 2 to 3 spots on her, then mostly hydrogen peroxide bath fading.

mlp4me mentioned that her pony got rock hard, I've seen a case where a pony's hair changed color, but my case was different. My pony's hair didn't change color nor did she really get hard (she was already wasn't that soft when I got her to begin with). The only thing that happened to the hair really was it got courser, which I know from other fadings I did if the hair isn't covered in the sun it will get courser. I have a G1 BBE Gusty who was normal sunfaded and that happened (though most of my ponies sit on a paper towel in the car when I do this).

Here is some test I thought based off the points in the first post:
Point one: peroxide fading a pony only works in the sun

• Take two ponies and put them in peroxide baths.
• Put 1st pony in the sun for x number of days
• Put 2nd pony in non-sunny spot for x number of days.
• check both to see who is faded more

Point two: peroxide not needed for fading, just water to make the UV stronger.

• Take 3 ponies
• Put 1st pony in peroxide bath, 2nd pony in water, 3rd leave out of bath
• Put all 3 into a sunny spot for x number of days
• Check all 3 to see who is faded more

That last point has one out of the bath just to see if liquid is need at all. This might be hard to test though because it's not that easy to find ponies all in the same condition This would also show the effect each kind of treatment does to ponies as far as symbols and hair.

[babystarz]

For me to believe the results, I'd need a more representative sample because even ponies in what appears to be similar condition could react very differently due to factors that have nothing to do with the fading method. So I would encourage you to either repeat the 3 pony experiment 4 times, OR (and this would make for more robust results) do 4 ponies with each different method at once A sample size of 12 ponies will give you much more data to either support or reject your hypothesis.

[Elisto]

I'm interested to see the results. From what I understand, UV light breaks down peroxide to create free radicals faster than the peroxide decomposes on it's own...so I wonder if it's not that peroxide doesn't work on it's own, or that it just works too slowly without sunlight to have a noticeable effect...another possibility to consider...how long has anyone left a pony in peroxide without sun?

[MonstarNomNom]

The scientificness of this thread has blown my mind

[hyenacub]

I did not photo document it, but I figured I'd say that I whitened a baby glory with just peroxide.  It was in a bathroom that was mostly dark.  c:

[BlackCurtains]

Bones whiten in peroxide without sunlight. In fact, it's the best way to whiten them. Some people will lay them in sunlight after soaking in peroxide, but I never do and my bones are as white as "professionally" whitened ones.

Also, the strength of the sun is not the same everywhere. I did this without peroxide at all, in about three days-
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It might be worth to try for people who live in different climates. Obviously, someone in the Northeast or England wouldn't be able to get results like the above from the sun alone so quickly.

I'll see what I can do.

[Dyzarktarzk]

Interesting points.

In my case, I've never put the pony in peroxide, but just cleaned it WITH cotton swabs and peroxide.  I just have done this to one pony (BBE Baby Gusty), and need to search for the after and before pics.

I never put her in the sun, just used peroxide to clean her.

[Mohawk]

Oh, goody! Looks like we have a lot of willing experimenters here. Hooray!

Peroxide does definitely have its effect. It's the safer bleach alternative for everything from human hair to bones (as BlackCurtains said). ALL of these methods will be effective... eventually. The question is of how quickly/thoroughly they are effective in comparison with each other, and whether the water/sun bath is effective enough to be a viable alternative to peroxide.

Lemontwist, of course. Three ponies. That would make more sense and I'm embarrassed not to have thought of that.

Babystarz, good on you for mentioning sample size. Originally I'd thought to just do it myself, but this would be better. (Also, I didn't think quite so many people would be on board with the idea!)

It might also be easier to have several people running the same 3-pony experiment at their own windows instead of one person with a dozen ponies. Differences in climate/latitude shouldn't be a problem since results don't have to be measured between windows, only between the 3 ponies on each window. This isn't going to be exact science, after all, just relative.

For the same reason, questions of how many days/how often ponies are turned/what color each person's ponies are/etc. shouldn't matter, as long as each person handles all 3 of their ponies the same way.

Sd_Dreamcrystal, I totally love your thoroughness. ^^ Also, I don't know if anyone really expects to find 3 ponies all in the exact same condition. Similar condition, or at least similar problems (3 ponies with moderate to extensive highlighter marks, for example), at least seems like it should be manageable if we get enough people and/or pool resources.