The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Al-1701 on May 25, 2019, 10:42:12 PM

Title: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on May 25, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
Well, we're about a third of the way into the final season, and this just happened.

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Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 25, 2019, 11:17:30 PM
Ouch! (Not unimaginable but still) I have noticed a distinct lack of regard of the ponies for the important crap in every other culture that isn't there's.

Simply put, if they were tourists they'd be the ones to grafitti on temples, and stick gum on ancient artifacts.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 \"Sweet and Smokey\"
Post by: Zapper on May 26, 2019, 12:34:58 AM
I don't buy Garble as Smolder's sibling. Adopted, maybe. They don't look alike because their relationship was invented just for the episode.
Can't wait for Gabby and Gilda to be related to Gallus :lol:

Post Merge: May 26, 2019, 12:38:13 AM

Simply put, if they were tourists they'd be the ones to grafitti on temples, and stick gum on ancient artifacts.

My favorite running gag to come out of G4: ponies are horrible :lol:
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on May 26, 2019, 01:53:41 AM
We really needed an actual pony civilization.  How else could we make them the master race?

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Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: CloudyGlow on May 26, 2019, 03:26:37 AM
I don't know, I liked it more than other episodes.

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Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on May 26, 2019, 03:32:16 AM
The person who wrote this episode also wrote Non-Compete Clause, AKA Fair Weather Friends minus the season 1 charm.
Not my favorite for sure, and I didn't like her other episode. As far as the ponies exploring other cultures goes, can we have them actually trying to be less like tourists? There does seem to be an air of disregard for the different cultures.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: TJgamer on May 26, 2019, 03:51:37 AM
The annoying, irredeemable dragon is related to my least favorite of the six students? You don't say.

So yeah, we got from the best of the season thus far to the worst of the season so far.
My expectations were already low this time around, just like every other episode that is about dragons (though Gauntlet of Fire was decent). Even so, I still felt disappointed.
All that talk about Garble "really being sensitive on the inside" and was sad ever since Smolder left for school? Not buying it, at all.  :pout:  His redemption did not feel earned. He has been a complete one-dimensional jerkass since the beginning. How do you go from wanting to commit murder for fun to this?

That said, it doesn't help that I'm biased towards Spike, who continues to be such a lovable role model. Seriously, I don't think any of us would nearly have the patience he has for such an obnoxious turd. He's probably now within my top 5 favorite characters in the show. And it continues to drain my soul every time I see him get pushed around.   :(

As for Al-1701's point, it's true that the giant, adult dragons have pretty much been pushed out of the spotlight since season 2. I guess the show staff felt that the smaller dragons we have now are a better representation of the dragons as a whole with Torch being the exception, as he was their lord.

On that note, I totally agree on Torch not telling Ember what to do about the eggs being very contrived for the sake of the plot.

Also why hasn't Ember decreed this celebration of differences sooner?   :huh:

And really, Smolder, you didn't notice Garble abusing Spike?  ¬_¬

Fluttershy was pretty good, though I wish we got more of her with Spike. And I really wanted to see her punch Garble's teeth in.
:enraged:

Overall, it's not the worst episode ever or anything (Dragon Quest is still more insulting and painful), however it's not good either; below average in my book. But really, it would take a lot to get me to enjoy an episode about Garble, who is at a very close 2nd behind Flim and Flam as my least favorite character in FiM.

To those who are in charge of G5, if you're going to bring back dragons, please... don't do this again.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on May 26, 2019, 11:57:20 AM
And we also have to remember Faust gave her blessing to breaking the dragons back with Dragon Quest because all she cared about was her message about boys liking feminine things and never thinking of how she was allowing the show's worst writer FUBAR the culture of a race that has been a significant part of MLP's lore since the beginning.  Thanks, Lauren, thanks a lot.

Maybe G5 should just ignore dragons after this debacle.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Zapper on May 26, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
Maybe G5 should just ignore dragons after this debacle.

If Hasbro sticks by one of the e-mails we saw in the leaks,

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I hope that won't happen for a bunch of reasons. Obviously, they will bring in new writers but I don't want MLP to become "MLP but also dragons because we need another dragon franchise".
Make a Spike spin-off if you must but I am a little fed up with this theme of "dragons and ponies are opposites".
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 26, 2019, 01:46:46 PM
I wouldn't mind getting dragon toys.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on May 26, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
I know the G1 comics has the Land of Dragons, but dragons were actual characters.  They weren't TNG Klingons only stupid.

Spike is a sidekick.  He's always been a sidekick and works best in the role.  I would like to see the six other dragons who came with the princesses in Europe to make an appearance.  Maybe they're all broodmates.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: MJNSEIFER on May 27, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
And we also have to remember Faust gave her blessing to breaking the dragons back with Dragon Quest because all she cared about was her message about boys liking feminine things and never thinking of how she was allowing the show's worst writer FUBAR the culture of a race that has been a significant part of MLP's lore since the beginning.  Thanks, Lauren, thanks a lot.

Maybe G5 should just ignore dragons after this debacle.
I honestly never had a problem with "Dragon Quest".  I'll have to rewatch it, but I remember enjoying it, and I never got the impression that it made all dragons who weren't Spike look bad (I remember you saying that "all dragons are brutes" being the message in this episode - I never got that), it always looked to me, like we were dealing with some bad dragons, but I never got the impression that they were all like that.

That being said, I was geeking out over the fact that part of it reminded me of Final Fantasy, so I could have missed it.

Unpopular opinion: I also liked Merriweather's episodes back then - she's made mistakes in my mind, like all writers have in all our minds, but she did what I consider to be likable episodes like "Hearths Warming Eve", "Wonderbolts Academy" and "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" (yes, I meant to include "Mare Do Well".)

As for
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it could have been planned, but it really wasn't needed.  I don't think it really affects anything about either character...
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: TJgamer on June 01, 2019, 03:23:44 AM
You know what would have helped make this episode bearable? Have Smolder play a more active role.
Smolder said that "if [Garble] were to mess with Spike, he'd mess with her." None of that ended up happening, despite Spike being bullied right in front of her.
It would have been more funny to see Garble attempt to pick on Spike, but Smolder catches him before he fully commits and he quickly changes his action to be falsely sweet just to stay on her good side.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Pinkie21 on June 01, 2019, 07:20:07 PM
Huh.  For a non-pony episode, I liked it.  I mean, it had barely and actual pony in it, so for me, that’s an automatic disqualification for me loving it.  But it was enjoyable enough due to Fluttershy.  She’s the only reason I even like this episode at all.  She was just plain adorable!  I wonder, though, if Spike will ever toughen up.  He’s always been the weakest of the main characters, and that’s getting a little obnoxious, TBH.  I was hoping he’d toughen up after hanging out with Smolder, but he’s still weak.  It would have been cool if this episode had him trying to be like Garble in order to impress Smolder or something. Then Fluttershy could have stopped him from going too crazy, and he could learn he can be a strong, tough dragon while not being a jerk.   
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: kingluke on June 02, 2019, 08:18:46 AM
It does look like Smolder got gravel as a brother just for the episode. Those dragon babies were cute tho. But laugh fire...🤔😓


I honestly thought that rhyme thing that gravel did was weird. Like, is that a thing? And that silly outfit.

I did like smolder tho. She is always Nice to have around.

It was an okay episode, won’t actively rewatch tho.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: StarSwirl05 on June 02, 2019, 01:01:22 PM
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Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 02, 2019, 11:20:17 PM
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That he's still the resident doormat.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: StarSwirl05 on June 02, 2019, 11:29:24 PM
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That he's still the resident doormat.
So pretty much just like his superhero counterpart, utterly useless.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 03, 2019, 12:58:45 AM
I've said this so many times.  Spike is a sidekick this show (goaded by its so-called fans) insists on trying to make a main character.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: StarSwirl05 on June 03, 2019, 01:08:21 AM
I've said this so many times.  Spike is a sidekick this show (goaded by its so-called fans) insists on trying to make a main character.
Might be a good idea for the writers to recall how Spike was done in the past.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 03, 2019, 01:28:31 AM
I've said this so many times.  Spike is a sidekick this show (goaded by its so-called fans) insists on trying to make a main character.
Might be a good idea for the writers to recall how Spike was done in the past.
"But those icky G1 and G3 ponies are so universally hated by all of humanity.  That's what our fans say."
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: StarSwirl05 on June 03, 2019, 01:41:57 AM

I've said this so many times.  Spike is a sidekick this show (goaded by its so-called fans) insists on trying to make a main character.
Might be a good idea for the writers to recall how Spike was done in the past.
"But those icky G1 and G3 ponies are so universally hated by all of humanity.  That's what our fans say."
That's obviously why they were so successful and not because of the sheer joy collectors got from seeing them.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: TJgamer on June 03, 2019, 09:12:30 AM
As I've said before, I love Spike, both in this generation and the previous ones (G3 is probably my fave though).
To me, he's at the very edge of "main character" material. I do appreciate their efforts in giving him character development and all, but I think having him also be the "sidekick" at the same time just gives me unpleasant vibes; as if he's a just servant to the mane 6 and they don't really think highly of him.
Plus him being a little kid amongst primarily teenage/adult aged characters doesn't help. He really has no subordinate or peer; he's the smallest and weakest (physically and sometimes mentally) character in almost every way. Smolder is probably the closest we have, but even so, I'm not a big fan of her character.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 03, 2019, 09:48:52 AM
What's wrong with being a sidekick?  His best material has always been when he plays straight man to Twilight in her neurotic fits, being the blunt voice of reason to bulldoze through her irrational conclusions.  His worst episodes have always been when he's the focus where the traits that make him a good sidekick make him a terrible main character.  I think of attitudes towards Spike and just think of the Cartoon Network skit where the sidekicks are talking about how role is important even if it is on a tier lower than the main characters.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 03, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
As I've said before, I love Spike, both in this generation and the previous ones (G3 is probably my fave though).
To me, he's at the very edge of "main character" material. I do appreciate their efforts in giving him character development and all, but I think having him also be the "sidekick" at the same time just gives me unpleasant vibes; as if he's a just servant to the mane 6 and they don't really think highly of him.
Plus him being a little kid amongst primarily teenage/adult aged characters doesn't help. He really has no subordinate or peer; he's the smallest and weakest (physically and sometimes mentally) character in almost every way. Smolder is probably the closest we have, but even so, I'm not a big fan of her character.

I like G3 Spike myself. I liked his proper attitude, patience and mischievous streak. He was great! I can never remember his full name though.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Zapper on June 03, 2019, 01:59:07 PM
As I've said before, I love Spike, both in this generation and the previous ones (G3 is probably my fave though).
To me, he's at the very edge of "main character" material. I do appreciate their efforts in giving him character development and all, but I think having him also be the "sidekick" at the same time just gives me unpleasant vibes; as if he's a just servant to the mane 6 and they don't really think highly of him.
Plus him being a little kid amongst primarily teenage/adult aged characters doesn't help. He really has no subordinate or peer; he's the smallest and weakest (physically and sometimes mentally) character in almost every way. Smolder is probably the closest we have, but even so, I'm not a big fan of her character.

I like G3 Spike myself. I liked his proper attitude, patience and mischievous streak. He was great! I can never remember his full name though.

G3 Spike and his rap career will always be the best Spike to date! Btw, his full name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Spike.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: StarSwirl05 on June 03, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
As I've said before, I love Spike, both in this generation and the previous ones (G3 is probably my fave though).
To me, he's at the very edge of "main character" material. I do appreciate their efforts in giving him character development and all, but I think having him also be the "sidekick" at the same time just gives me unpleasant vibes; as if he's a just servant to the mane 6 and they don't really think highly of him.
Plus him being a little kid amongst primarily teenage/adult aged characters doesn't help. He really has no subordinate or peer; he's the smallest and weakest (physically and sometimes mentally) character in almost every way. Smolder is probably the closest we have, but even so, I'm not a big fan of her character.

I like G3 Spike myself. I liked his proper attitude, patience and mischievous streak. He was great! I can never remember his full name though.

G3 Spike and his rap career will always be the best Spike to date! Btw, his full name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Spike.
I always thought his name was "The one with the really long name that just happens to be called Spike"?
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 03, 2019, 02:49:52 PM
As I've said before, I love Spike, both in this generation and the previous ones (G3 is probably my fave though).
To me, he's at the very edge of "main character" material. I do appreciate their efforts in giving him character development and all, but I think having him also be the "sidekick" at the same time just gives me unpleasant vibes; as if he's a just servant to the mane 6 and they don't really think highly of him.
Plus him being a little kid amongst primarily teenage/adult aged characters doesn't help. He really has no subordinate or peer; he's the smallest and weakest (physically and sometimes mentally) character in almost every way. Smolder is probably the closest we have, but even so, I'm not a big fan of her character.

I like G3 Spike myself. I liked his proper attitude, patience and mischievous streak. He was great! I can never remember his full name though.

G3 Spike and his rap career will always be the best Spike to date! Btw, his full name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Spike.

 :lol:
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: TJgamer on June 03, 2019, 05:34:20 PM
What's wrong with being a sidekick?  His best material has always been when he plays straight man to Twilight in her neurotic fits, being the blunt voice of reason to bulldoze through her irrational conclusions.  His worst episodes have always been when he's the focus where the traits that make him a good sidekick make him a terrible main character.  I think of attitudes towards Spike and just think of the Cartoon Network skit where the sidekicks are talking about how role is important even if it is on a tier lower than the main characters.
Oh, I have no problem with him being a sidekick.   :lookround:
What I take issue with is the writing staff having him be both a focal point of storytelling and a sidekick at the same time. There are times where they clearly want me to see him as a more jokey character, but a lot of the drama that surrounds him kinda hinders that. Do one or the other.
Now that's not to say doing both is impossible, but it does need to be done with extra care.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Minty_Magic on June 06, 2019, 07:32:22 AM
I meant to write on this a couple weeks ago when the episode came out, but I got busy. I'm going strictly off memory here because frankly this episode isn't worth any sort of re-watch. Forgive me if I have some details wrong. :P

I don't even know where to begin with this episode. I might just do a bullet point list of things that really bugged me.
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All in all, this was a really bad episode. Definitely a sign that we're wrapping up this generation at the right time.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 07, 2019, 12:19:09 AM
Hasbro always did botch the dragons who weren't Spike, (up until they finally botched him).  I'll take Dragon Tales anyday.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 07, 2019, 12:57:55 AM
I liked the dragon bandits from "Spike's Search" for what they were, a bunch of thugs.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 07, 2019, 02:38:58 AM
I liked the dragon bandits from "Spike's Search" for what they were, a bunch of thugs.

Weeeelllll......
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 07, 2019, 09:37:04 AM
Let me explain further. I like them because the episode made sure to explain they weren't bad because they were dragons, were bad because they were thuggish bandits and their behavior should not be used to judge the entire dragon race.  You know, the opposite of what FiM did in "Dragon Quest" which essentially said Spike was so lucky to have been raised by civilized ponies and not those brutish dragons punctuated by Spike telling Peewee he would teach him how to be a pony.
Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Leave a Whisper on June 07, 2019, 03:15:58 PM
I agree the moral was better. I'm just sayin they weren't very good thugs, because it didn't take much to send them packing. They were goofy and weren't very good depictions of western dragons. There's been far better examples of dragons in animated media.

Title: Re: FiM: S9E9 "Sweet and Smokey"
Post by: Al-1701 on June 08, 2019, 03:47:34 AM
They were a gang of bandits more than they were dragons.  That was the point.  They acted all tough when they had the upper hand and could terrorize people into either fleeing or caving to their demands.  When someone stood their ground, they crumpled.  And the coda gave us hope there are other dragons out there who aren't bandits, but the show wasn't renewed so we'll never know.

Still better than the band-aid on a bullet wound (with the bullet still in there) FiM has been trying.