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Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Bekuno on April 06, 2019, 04:53:16 PM

Title: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Bekuno on April 06, 2019, 04:53:16 PM
Well here we go folks, after nearly 9 years we've reached the end. The aptly titled "beginning of the end" has aired.

Spoilers & recap ahead!

Episode 1:
Twilight & Co are summoned to Canterlot Castle to meet with Luna and Celestia, who announce they are ready to retire and want Twilight to take the helm as new ruler of Equestria. Meanwhile, Lord Tirek and Cozy Glow are ripped from their cages in Tartarus and brought to a strange location along with Queen Chrysalis and King Sombra. Grogar, one of the infamous villains of G1, has brought these villians together to take down Equestria once and for all. Sombra, however, wishes to take matters into his own hands instead of working as a team. He quickly takes down the Crystal Empire, trapping Shining Armor, Cadence, & Flurry Heart while possessing the crystal ponies to do his bidding. But just as quickly as he reclaimed his home, he loses it once more to the Mane 6, who have arrived with the elements of harmony to banish him back to the ether once more. Though seemingly defeated, it turns out Somba is not yet done for, and his dark crystals begin popping up and he completely shatters the Tree of Harmony & it's Elements.

Episode 2:
Quickly picking up from the first Episode, Sombra has captured the Mane 6. Assuming they are out of the way, he moves on with the next part of his plan. Who needs the Crystal Empire when you can take all of Equestria now? Despite his magic-blocking crystals, the Mane 6 escape their prison quickly by digging underneath is. They quickly rush to ponyville, only to find all theirs friends and loved ones under Sombra's control and quickly marching towards canterlot. What's worse, the Everfree Forest has come to life once more without the Tree of Harmony to control it, and is growing into ponyville. The Mane 6 put up a strong front against the Forest but it is growing too quickly. Luckily, Celestia and Luna arrive in time to fight back. Starswirl also appears, summoned by the collapse of the Tree of Harmony. The three of them band together to fight off the Everfree Forest while the Mane 6 head to Canterlot, where Sombra has already taken up throne due to the Princesses absence. Discord assists the ponies, reflecting all of Sombra's spells, but ends up hit by a beam. After the ponies quickly mourn over Discord, they band together, holding hooves, and remind each other they don't need the elements. After all, the real magic is their Friendship, and it can defeat anything. Together they defeat Sombra once more, freeing the mind controlled ponies and removing the dark crystals from Equestria. Celestia & Luna return and apologize to Twilight for not giving her more time and acting rashly, and it is revealed Discord was just faking, as Discord does. But Sombra was only the first threat, and Grogar and the others are still planning to strike...


--
Gotta say, it's nice to see Sombra, one of the weakest villains in the show, get some proper screen time and dialogue. Also, having Grogar combines the G1 & G4 canon, and some of his speech seems to imply G1 is more canon than we think. I believe Gusty was even mentioned, but my stream cut out and I missed the exact dialogue. Oh, and Twilight seems to be fully willing to give Starlight control of the School & her Castle when she becomes ruler.

I'm really excited to see what exactly will happen this season. I'm sad to see FIM, it's been a big part of my life, but I can't wait to see how it all ends.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: StarSwirl05 on April 06, 2019, 07:20:14 PM
It was okay I guess. I still have questions regarding the events:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
That said, I liked the tie-in to G1 and Grogar certainly sounded menacing, moreso than King Somra's new voice.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 06, 2019, 08:31:01 PM
Yes, Gusty was called "Gusty the Great".  :) I thought that was a sweet detail.
I wish that they would have stuck with Twilight actually being the ruler of Equestria, although it does feel much more like finale fare than premiere. I also wish they would have kept the flowy, sparkly mane we saw when she was defeating Sombra, but again, finale vs premiere.
I'm still not a big fan of Cozy Glow being put in Tartarus, but I gotta say, she's very funny interacting with the other villains. I do wish she were redeemed, but I'm sure she'll be a big source of amusement for me. "I'm just a kid, sooo"
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: lonewolf on April 06, 2019, 09:47:40 PM
Overall it was a pretty good start to the season. It's not too hard to view Grogar and his gang as a nod to Lex Luthor and the Legion of Doom. Sombra did pretty good as a villain. The other 3 villains probably won't fare as good over the season (in that light a better name would be "Grogar and the Legion of Dimwits).
 Twi's panic attack was predictable, but still funny, especially with the other's response to her.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Pinkie21 on April 06, 2019, 11:49:41 PM
I thought it was a pretty strong start to the end of the series.  It was cool to see the villains together.  As for Cozy, I REALLY hope they don’t redeem her.  People can be evil at any age, so it’d be pretty fun to see her go the way of Sombra.  Knowing this series, though, they’ll all be redeemed because *frieeeeendship*. I was so, SO glad there was no Student 6.  As far as Celestia and Luna retiring...don’t they still have to raise and lower the sun and moon?  As far as I know, they’re the only two who can do that, right?  Eh, I’m thinking way too hard about a kids’ show.  But I’m curious as to if they didn’t think this whole thing through, or if they’re able to give Twilight their abilities.  They did so in a previous episode, so I guess it’s a possibility, though what will they do with their own lives?
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: TJgamer on April 07, 2019, 12:14:05 AM
That was a pretty good premiere. Probably the best since season 5 (The Cutie Map).
Both Grogar and Gusty the Great were mentioned back in the season 7 episode, A Flurry of Emotions, where Twilight was reading a story to the children. Up until now, I wasn't completely sure if it was real or just a fairy tale. Turns out it's the former.   ^.^
It was okay I guess. I still have questions regarding the events:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
That said, I liked the tie-in to G1 and Grogar certainly sounded menacing, moreso than King Somra's new voice.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: StarSwirl05 on April 07, 2019, 12:26:18 AM
That was a pretty good premiere. Probably the best since season 5 (The Cutie Map).
Both Grogar and Gusty the Great were mentioned back in the season 7 episode, A Flurry of Emotions, where Twilight was reading a story to the children. Up until now, I wasn't completely sure if it was real or just a fairy tale. Turns out it's the former.   ^.^
It was okay I guess. I still have questions regarding the events:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
That said, I liked the tie-in to G1 and Grogar certainly sounded menacing, moreso than King Somra's new voice.
[spoiler]1. Is Tartarus anti-magic? All magic in Equestria was being wiped out in the season 8 finale, if that's what you were thinking of.
When Twilight and her friends were trapped, twilight wasn't able to escape using her magic. If it isn't anti-magic, then that should've worked.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Lady Frostbite on April 07, 2019, 12:33:25 AM
Magic worked WITHIN Tartarus when the creatures gave Twilight to allow them to escape, though. Could just say Grogar's magic is so deep and ancient that it overrides Tartarus so whatever :sweat:

I did find the 'See, she gets it' line funny. It's always great when titled villains get each other's titles.right. I am disappointed Chrysalis is just yelling at logs,she had better not be reformed at the end.

With the upcoming 'Twilight didn't return a book and got a librarian fired' plot, I HAD assumed she wasn't going to take over totally and immediately. I still would have preferred it be a dream. It felt like a fakeout and Discord almost sounded like an angry fan or brony analysist at the end with his rant. Just feels lazy to have them retire rather than have them be more involved.

I don't think making Twilight the sole rular of Equestria is a good idea at ALL. Makes me dislike her even more, honestly.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 07, 2019, 03:02:57 AM
I really enjoyed the episodes overall and thought for the most part it was a great season opener.


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Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 07, 2019, 04:09:05 AM
Yes, Gusty was called "Gusty the Great".  :) I thought that was a sweet detail.
I wish that they would have stuck with Twilight actually being the ruler of Equestria, although it does feel much more like finale fare than premiere. I also wish they would have kept the flowy, sparkly mane we saw when she was defeating Sombra, but again, finale vs premiere.
I'm still not a big fan of Cozy Glow being put in Tartarus, but I gotta say, she's very funny interacting with the other villains. I do wish she were redeemed, but I'm sure she'll be a big source of amusement for me. "I'm just a kid, sooo"

Odd that his defeat is being credited to Gusty when it was North Star who rung the bell and Forget-Me-Not who tricked him into opening the gate. :wonder:
Title: Re: \"The Beginning of the End\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on April 07, 2019, 08:19:49 AM
Well, that premiere sure was something! Lots of fun, but I think this may be the most rushed episode(s) ever. All the inside jokes were a joy (RD saying Luna and Celestia never helping out the mane 6 in their battles, for example :D ) It's almost as if the writers went through all the fan commentaries of previous episodes and crafted them into this two-parter.

King Sombra seemed a lot less menacing now that we got to hear him speak. I liked him more as a mysterious menacing cloud of darkness whose motivations remained obscure - in comparison. Dude has a seriously bloated ego, that's for sure. All that yapping about how powerful he is :D

It was okay I guess. I still have questions regarding the events:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
That said, I liked the tie-in to G1 and Grogar certainly sounded menacing, moreso than King Somra's new voice.

1. This being a head scratcher is kind of the point, I think. Despite it being anti-magic, Grogar was still able to teleport Tirek & CG out of it; this just hints at Grogar's power being far greater than anything ever seen or understood. Foreshadowing.
2. The elements and the tree are conduits to magic powers, and over time the mane 6 have grown strong and confident enough to summon and harness their power without their trinkets. That's what I got from it, Discord worded it differently at the end but came down to the same point.
3. Good point. Because they had to stretch it out :)
4. Loved it!
5. Over or under, the end result is the same. Under makes it easier for the earth ponies.

If Grogar is the First Evil (father of villains, as Sombra put it I think), there should have been some mentioning of him long before this premiere. That's the only think that irks me a bit. The rabbit out of a hat thing, like Twilight's brother popping up out of nowhere back in the days.

Discord's hilarious talk at the end was pure gold btw! Lots of laughs there!!

I do hope we get some more explanations on this Grogar's bell, and where it actually is. Hopefully they bring Gusty in (somehow) to defeat Grogar alongside the mane 6.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: SpacePinto on April 07, 2019, 12:56:45 PM
and Peach Blossom who tricked him into opening the gate. :wonder:

*Forget-Me-Not
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 07, 2019, 01:44:47 PM
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Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 07, 2019, 01:52:22 PM
and Peach Blossom who tricked him into opening the gate. :wonder:

*Forget-Me-Not
Ironic!
Yeah, I just watched the Return of Tambelon and I wonder if North Star sort of resented Gusty for getting all the credit for essentially no reason. I would love to see Gusty return in some capacity.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 07, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
and Peach Blossom who tricked him into opening the gate. :wonder:

*Forget-Me-Not

Whoops!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Sunset on April 07, 2019, 05:21:40 PM
So I don’t quite know what to think of this premier.  Lots of plot holes and eye-rolling moments.

I wonder if Gusty was just chosen because she is a popular character.  Or maybe because of her voice actor?

I’m just interested to see how this season does or doesn’t set up the next step of the franchise.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 07, 2019, 07:10:19 PM
I wasn't wowed by it and I honestly cut the writers some slack in the past. I am not surprised it is yet again a two-parter, slice of life, two-parter format because it has always been. But since this season should wrap up the series it should really feel more grand and better written.

So here is my big issue:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

I have always hated that they brought Discord back because he is just too powerful and every time he isn't, it's because he chooses to be a jerk. We have seen this so many times before. It would have actually been good if Sombra would have drained him of his powers until the end of the season, similar to how Tirek fooled him.

Speaking of Tirek... so I am not mad that he is now Grogar's subordinate. The G4 Tirek is very different from my fave G1 villain. Chrysalis also makes sense in some way. Both of them gave powers Grogar can use.
But I don't get why Cozy Glow is still here. Grogar must have severe issues if he thought "ah yes, the power of baby!"
Cozy is a fun sidekick to Tirek but ehh... can she please be revealed as something more sinister? If Grogar is so old and powerful, surely he would have thought of a better villain than her.
Would have been cool to see the Sirens again or someone new.

I already saw a new Yak Yakistan episode is in the pipeline, so I guess this season won't be as epic as the trailer made it out to be.

PS: Luna saying it was "fun" to fight for Equestria made me realize that every single time she was knocked out when something went down. If anyone should be the new ruler it should be Nightmare Moon :P
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Al-1701 on April 07, 2019, 07:11:52 PM
I think they chose Gusty for the alliteration.  And I think it's clear this is a different continuity from G1.  There was no mention of Tambelon here.

And I'm glad they had a sensible character designer for this one.  Tirek is in his optimal form (powerful but not ridiculous looking), and Grogar looks awesome.

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Title: Re: \\\"The Beginning of the End\\\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 07, 2019, 07:20:07 PM
I am all for Gusty because she is gutsy (lol) and a G1 fan fave. If the other fanbase had their way again they probably would have made it someone's fanfic character :lol:

Also, "Gusty the Great" was an easteregg in that one episode where Twilight reads to sick foals. In the book Gusty led a unicorn army (or whatever) to defeat Grogar. So this is a case where they brought back something from a previous season and cemented it as canon. It's cute.

Post Merge: April 07, 2019, 07:30:11 PM

I don't think making Twilight the sole rular of Equestria is a good idea at ALL. Makes me dislike her even more, honestly.

This show needs to end with everything being part of the sisters plan to become one with the universe or whatever. I can't fathom them just "retiring" and kicking back while someone else rules. I was honest to dog believing it was all a set-up or dream or higher power messing with them until the end when Celestia confirmed they still want Twilight to take over. Like what the heck?
They made such a big fuss about Twilight becoming a Princess with a beautiful song sequence and coronation. This time she becomes president of a nation and it's just "eh, watch the land while we are off" :lol:

Post Merge: April 07, 2019, 09:13:33 PM

Overall it was a pretty good start to the season. It's not too hard to view Grogar and his gang as a nod to Lex Luthor and the Legion of Doom.

Sorry for hogging the thread but I am just now reading all the comments in here.

I got a very specific Saruman vibe from Grogar, not so much Lex Luthor.
His design looks older than his G1 version, his voice is different.
He even had the Eye of Sauron or more like, Eye of Goatron? and the way he spoke about "birthing" evils, much like Saruman created the Uruk'hai. I would even go as far as saying he got the other villains to lend him their talents like Saruman tried to get Gandalf to join him, by force.

I think it's a bit sad the show turned into a reference fest. Sure, a kid won't notice as much but to me Grogar is not a G4 creation. He just seems like G1 Grogar meets Saruman.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 08, 2019, 12:52:15 AM
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Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Mewtwofan1 on April 08, 2019, 04:07:00 AM
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 08, 2019, 04:09:08 AM
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.

He's not a necromancer. Sorcerer does not equal necromancer. I wish that bloody misconception would stop already. A necromancer is someone who speaks to the dead. A spiritual medium. Necro=dead, mancy=to divine. Some kids holding a seance with a ouija board in a cemetary is more accurate to necromancy then a warlord  who shoots lightning bolts at people is.


And saying that Gusty is now quote on quote canon, when she's always been...well to put it politely is a very irritating thing to hear.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Mewtwofan1 on April 08, 2019, 04:42:24 AM
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.

He's not a necromancer. Sorcerer does not equal necromancer. I wish that bloody misconception would stop already. A necromancer is someone who speaks to the dead. A spiritual medium. Necro=dead, mancy=to divine. Some kids holding a seance with a ouija board in a cemetary is more accurate to necromancy then a warlord  who shoots lightning bolts at people is.


And saying that Gusty is now quote on quote canon, when she's always been...well to put it politely is a very irritating thing to hear.
     Wait...I thought he was a necromancer? I thought those were the extent of his powers. Sorry about that. I guess I need to rewatch the return of tambelon. And I meant gusty as in g4 cannon. Like it wasn’t some fairy tale that twilight read, but it was based on an actual event that occurred in Equestria.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 08, 2019, 05:09:55 AM
Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:

Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Minty_Magic on April 08, 2019, 10:44:36 AM
I found the premier overall enjoyable! I won't lie, parts of it felt much more like a finale than a season opener, but I suppose that makes sense for this season. ;)

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Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:



I think everyone defines "canon" a little differently. :) For me personally, there are different canons even within on brand or franchise! Taking My Little Pony, for example, there are lots of different canons with in that for me! I see G1, G2, G3, and G4 all as their own separate canons and story lines. Since we're talking about Gusty, I'll build off that. In my eyes she's an official My Little Pony Character, no questions asked! But within canon, I primarily only see her as being in the G1 world. Her being mentioned in Friendship Is Magic ties her into the canon of that world too. However, if we do see her and she has a different color scheme or personality, I may still consider her a totally separate character. As an example, I don't see G1 Moondancer and G4 Moondancer as the same pony. Even though they have the same colors, they exist in different worlds and don't have the same personality.

To dig even deeper into it, I still see different canons within even G4! I don't count the comics as being canon to the show because even though they are taking place within the same world with the same main characters, there are enough differences for me to view it as its own separate entity!

I'm sorry if this is confusing, it's a little hard to explain where my brain is on this! :blush: I just wanted to clarify that I don't think Mewtwofan1 or anyone else who is saying Gusty is "canon" now was trying to imply Gusty isn't official or important as a My Little Pony character, just that she is now a named character within the new generation, which is exciting!

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to view characters and how they fall into a specific canon. Frankly this stuff is super confusing and I can switch back and forth on how I want to define it depending on the work I'm talking about!   
Title: Re: \"The Beginning of the End\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 08, 2019, 11:24:45 AM
Quote
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story.

Now you know what canon is, Whisper :lol:

Gusty has indeed not been canon as per the FiM show. She was treated as a legend/fictional character. Now she isn't anymore. That means she has been "canonized". It has nothing to do with people disregarding a character. It is about that character actually existing in that specific timeline/universe or not.

I am curious if they will use the villains backstories from the IDW FiM comics, since they also brought in the Pillars. The FiM comics and the FiM show are two separate canons with only a little overlap as far as I know (the comics had Twinkle Eye ponies, more G1 characters and Nightmare Rarity).

Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 11:34:30 AM

Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists?

Because it's a kids cartoon and not Game of Thrones :lol:
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 08, 2019, 01:11:28 PM
Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Ponyfan
Title: Re: \\\\\\\"The Beginning of the End\\\\\\\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 08, 2019, 03:29:11 PM
Quote
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story.

Now you know what canon is, Whisper :lol:

Gusty has indeed not been canon as per the FiM show. She was treated as a legend/fictional character. Now she isn't anymore. That means she has been "canonized". It has nothing to do with people disregarding a character. It is about that character actually existing in that specific timeline/universe or not.

I am curious if they will use the villains backstories from the IDW FiM comics, since they also brought in the Pillars. The FiM comics and the FiM show are two separate canons with only a little overlap as far as I know (the comics had Twinkle Eye ponies, more G1 characters and Nightmare Rarity).

Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 11:34:30 AM

Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists?

Because it's a kids cartoon and not Game of Thrones :lol:

I know what canon is Sith Empress Zapper. ;)




Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 03:46:52 PM

I found the premier overall enjoyable! I won't lie, parts of it felt much more like a finale than a season opener, but I suppose that makes sense for this season. ;)

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Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:



I think everyone defines "canon" a little differently. :) For me personally, there are different canons even within on brand or franchise! Taking My Little Pony, for example, there are lots of different canons with in that for me! I see G1, G2, G3, and G4 all as their own separate canons and story lines. Since we're talking about Gusty, I'll build off that. In my eyes she's an official My Little Pony Character, no questions asked! But within canon, I primarily only see her as being in the G1 world. Her being mentioned in Friendship Is Magic ties her into the canon of that world too. However, if we do see her and she has a different color scheme or personality, I may still consider her a totally separate character. As an example, I don't see G1 Moondancer and G4 Moondancer as the same pony. Even though they have the same colors, they exist in different worlds and don't have the same personality.

To dig even deeper into it, I still see different canons within even G4! I don't count the comics as being canon to the show because even though they are taking place within the same world with the same main characters, there are enough differences for me to view it as its own separate entity!

I'm sorry if this is confusing, it's a little hard to explain where my brain is on this! :blush: I just wanted to clarify that I don't think Mewtwofan1 or anyone else who is saying Gusty is "canon" now was trying to imply Gusty isn't official or important as a My Little Pony character, just that she is now a named character within the new generation, which is exciting!

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to view characters and how they fall into a specific canon. Frankly this stuff is super confusing and I can switch back and forth on how I want to define it depending on the work I'm talking about!


I know and you explained your position very well. Better thenI did.


Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 03:49:30 PM

Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Ponyfan

That's pretty creepy.  :blink:
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Mewtwofan1 on April 08, 2019, 06:28:12 PM
Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Ponyfan
...he’s a bit of a stalker, but it’s only just a little bit creepy? Like, I understand trying to know your opponent in and out, but really? In addition to controlling shadows, mind control and crystal growing, add stalking infants to his list of abilities in probably the brightest point in Equestria.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: FiddlePhan on April 09, 2019, 12:50:50 AM
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 09, 2019, 02:27:39 AM
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Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Al-1701 on April 09, 2019, 09:54:02 AM
I've just accepted the fact the writers on this show are completely clueless and just do whatever they want.

You know, I unplugged from FiM completely between seasons.  It made me realize how loud and screechy Pinkie Pie's voice is.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 09, 2019, 11:36:59 AM
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).

That's why I thought it was a hoax or that Celestia had been replaced by Chrysalis. It's so out of left field, so weird.
They had an entire episode about how stressful the princess days and nights are. So tailored to them they can't just switch places. And now Twilight is supposed to do both.
I guess Cadance is still there but she is too weak to guard her own child.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 09, 2019, 11:48:37 AM
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).

That's why I thought it was a hoax or that Celestia had been replaced by Chrysalis. It's so out of left field, so weird.
They had an entire episode about how stressful the princess days and nights are. So tailored to them they can't just switch places. And now Twilight is supposed to do both.
I guess Cadance is still there but she is too weak to guard her own child.



Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.



Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 09, 2019, 02:40:30 PM
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).

That's why I thought it was a hoax or that Celestia had been replaced by Chrysalis. It's so out of left field, so weird.
They had an entire episode about how stressful the princess days and nights are. So tailored to them they can't just switch places. And now Twilight is supposed to do both.
I guess Cadance is still there but she is too weak to guard her own child.



Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.



Ponyfan

That's how I took it as well. But it was all so rushed, I hardly understood what was going on until I watched that scene again.
I think it was lazy not to bring up Flurry's magical powers again. It's like all the ingredients were there to age up Flurry and make it clear she is the new ruler. She was born an alicorn princess, I really thought the writers would jump on that and develop her further. But instead they wrote her out, just like Cadence. Cadence is so useless nowadays and only there to be a mom.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Al-1701 on April 10, 2019, 01:41:09 AM
Actually, Grogar did practice necromancy in this premier when he brought Sombra back from the dead.  Though, he had no control over them.

Still, that misinterpretation of what the original Grogar has always bothered me.  My only guess is necromancy is commonly conflated with Voodoo which is associated with goats since the animals are a convenient source of body parts and fluids, and Grogar is a goat.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: lonewolf on April 10, 2019, 04:02:14 AM
And here we go with the Superfriends memes for the show (along with League Of Super Evil). Plus Legion of Doom seems to be the accepted name of the group now :

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Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Skeen on April 10, 2019, 05:09:03 PM
I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but I can't think of anyone better suited to ruling an entire empire than a sulky fashion designer, a stubborn farmer, a reckless daredevil, an insane party planner, a cripplingly shy wallflower, and an eternal student so egotistical as to think she is the world's only authority on how to make friends.  /s
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Luxrayx on April 10, 2019, 05:34:06 PM
First we had an episode where Starlight straight up murders banishes Discord and he returns as a ghost, and now one where Discord pretends to be mortally wounded. I firmly believe that the writers want to kill him off, and there's just one writer frantically rewriting all the scripts to make them child friendly. One of these days, that one writer will fail. Soon enough  :devious:

I like what Grogar said about using cooperation against the mane 6. I always did wonder what would happen if a set of villains became ~true friends~ and used the ~magic of friendship~ against the girls. I imagine that's why Grogar brought Cozy Glow into the mix, she has been studying the subject after all.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 10, 2019, 05:42:11 PM
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).

That's why I thought it was a hoax or that Celestia had been replaced by Chrysalis. It's so out of left field, so weird.
They had an entire episode about how stressful the princess days and nights are. So tailored to them they can't just switch places. And now Twilight is supposed to do both.
I guess Cadance is still there but she is too weak to guard her own child.



Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.



Ponyfan

That's how I took it as well. But it was all so rushed, I hardly understood what was going on until I watched that scene again.
I think it was lazy not to bring up Flurry's magical powers again. It's like all the ingredients were there to age up Flurry and make it clear she is the new ruler. She was born an alicorn princess, I really thought the writers would jump on that and develop her further. But instead they wrote her out, just like Cadence. Cadence is so useless nowadays and only there to be a mom.




Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.



Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: SpacePinto on April 10, 2019, 08:24:39 PM
Those screencaps of G4 Grogar are so paintul to look at :yikes:
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: KarentheUnicorn on April 10, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but I can't think of anyone better suited to ruling an entire empire than a sulky fashion designer, a stubborn farmer, a reckless daredevil, an insane party planner, a cripplingly shy wallflower, and an eternal student so egotistical as to think she is the world's only authority on how to make friends.  /s

bu-bu-but friendship is magic SKEEN!! MAGIC! (but seriously when I read your post I almost spit out my coke trying not to laugh)

I'm more still trying to get over the idea of Gusty is now suddenly canon. The idea that it made her more official because they talked about her on an episode of FIM.

I guess I should be thankful I'm a toy collector and consider the actual physical toys Canon and the stuff on the TV shows are accessories to the real deal.

I actually missed both of these episodes, my DVR forgot to record and some of us are working on Saturday, but meh, it sounds like and from what I've seen in clips on youtube, etc. that they turned Sombra into another flimsy bad-guy that tries to take over. In this one case I would have wished for a redemptive story instead of oh, he just wants to take over and then, blam the evil crystal bad guy disappear again.

Meh to all the evildoers in ponyland, we actually don't need those elements are harmony after all. It doesn't matter that we went through so many seasons trying to find, protect, recreate the elements, destroy my house, rebuild it and now...nevermind we don't need the elements afterall.

Either way it was nice to see Sombra holding a baby. :p

Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Mermaid on April 10, 2019, 09:07:34 PM
I think the remaining three villains are going to become friends, realize that friendship is magic,  and help the ponies in the end.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Al-1701 on April 10, 2019, 10:46:41 PM
I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but I can't think of anyone better suited to ruling an entire empire than a sulky fashion designer, a stubborn farmer, a reckless daredevil, an insane party planner, a cripplingly shy wallflower, and an eternal student so egotistical as to think she is the world's only authority on how to make friends.  /s
I would say something, but then my country is run by a reserve yod-dropping reality TV star.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 11, 2019, 01:33:22 AM
I'm more still trying to get over the idea of Gusty is now suddenly canon. The idea that it made her more official because they talked about her on an episode of FIM.

What's the problem with Gusty being on FiM?
Some of us like to see previous characters getting brought over into new gens. It's like when they mentioned "General Firefly" or had cameos of Toola Roola and Coconut Cream. And well, AJ was just cloned twice :lol:
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: KarentheUnicorn on April 11, 2019, 03:12:49 PM
I'm more still trying to get over the idea of Gusty is now suddenly canon. The idea that it made her more official because they talked about her on an episode of FIM.

What's the problem with Gusty being on FiM?
Some of us like to see previous characters getting brought over into new gens. It's like when they mentioned "General Firefly" or had cameos of Toola Roola and Coconut Cream. And well, AJ was just cloned twice :lol:

I don't believe I said anything was wrong with Gusty being mentioned in FIM? If you read that part you quoted of me again, I think it's fairly clear it's more a reaction to the reaction.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Carrehz on April 11, 2019, 04:09:25 PM
Poor ol' North Star, getting thrown under the bus like that :p I'd imagine they used Gusty because she's more popular/recognizable/etc.. even pre-G4 I saw more fanart of Gusty than North Star.

I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but I can't think of anyone better suited to ruling an entire empire than a sulky fashion designer, a stubborn farmer, a reckless daredevil, an insane party planner, a cripplingly shy wallflower, and an eternal student so egotistical as to think she is the world's only authority on how to make friends.  /s

:lmao:
Title: Re: \"The Beginning of the End\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Zapper on April 11, 2019, 07:28:06 PM
I'm more still trying to get over the idea of Gusty is now suddenly canon. The idea that it made her more official because they talked about her on an episode of FIM.

What's the problem with Gusty being on FiM?
Some of us like to see previous characters getting brought over into new gens. It's like when they mentioned "General Firefly" or had cameos of Toola Roola and Coconut Cream. And well, AJ was just cloned twice :lol:

I don't believe I said anything was wrong with Gusty being mentioned in FIM? If you read that part you quoted of me again, I think it's fairly clear it's more a reaction to the reaction.

Your reaction seemed negative towards FiM canonizing Gusty. At least that's how it came across to me when you wrote that you have to try to "get over the idea that Gusty is now suddenly canon". If nothing is wrong with her being on FiM then why do you have to try to get over it? Is what I am not understanding here.

I come from Hasbro Transformers fandom where characters get reused all the time and appear in new gens. I like it.
Especially when they give G1 ponies high ranks and talk about them adoringly. It's a bit like G4 is paying respect to the first gen (kinda failed doing that with Tirek but that's also just my opinion).
Gusty being the one who defeated Grogar in G4 is cool in my book. And even cooler now that Grogar is real a.k.a. canon in FiM and so is the G4 Gusty who fought him. Praise to G1 ponies :cool:

Post Merge: April 11, 2019, 07:30:58 PM

Poor ol' North Star, getting thrown under the bus like that :p I'd imagine they used Gusty because she's more popular/recognizable/etc.. even pre-G4 I saw more fanart of Gusty than North Star.

I for one am shocked they even knew about Gusty and didn't use a random rainbow or collector pose pony. Hasbro seems to be so keen on them and only them (plus Princess Sparkle) to use for their classic merch line.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Carrehz on April 11, 2019, 08:52:22 PM
The way I read Karen's post is that she was surprised at how some people had commented "Gusty is canon!", not that she had a problem w/ Gusty being in G4... I could be wrong though.

Gusty seems to be reasonably popular w/ bronies; maybe that's how they found out about her?
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 11, 2019, 10:53:58 PM
Here's a screencap of Twilight reading the book about Gusty the Great from "Flurry of Emotions"

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Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: KarentheUnicorn on April 11, 2019, 11:58:38 PM


Your reaction seemed negative towards FiM canonizing Gusty. At least that's how it came across to me when you wrote that you have to try to "get over the idea that Gusty is now suddenly canon". If nothing is wrong with her being on FiM then why do you have to try to get over it? Is what I am not understanding here.

uh, no, plus I clarified so I'm not sure why you are trying to explain what I meant? What you are implying is incorrect. So either you accept my clarification or you don't, other folks seem to have gotten what I was reacting to.


Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Bekuno on April 12, 2019, 12:56:26 AM
Alright, simmer down guys. I thought our attitudes had gotten better since we closed the FIM board. Please act civil with each other.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 12, 2019, 01:26:39 AM
The writer of Flurry of Emotions actually had a panel at Pony Fair 2018! She said that she's a big fan of the G1 series and wanted to add a little nod, and she used Gusty's name as the name of the pony from the story Twilight was reading to the hospital kids. She did mention that she only submitted the name in passing but didn't design the prop itself, so someone in the animation/design department did a little bit of research to get the right colors. I'd imagine they used her just because it was someone the team was already familiar with.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Goanna on April 12, 2019, 07:57:26 AM
I saw a really funny conversation on a discussion post about the premiere on dA haha. It went something like this:

Person 1: Who was that pony they kept mentioning? Crusty? Grusty?
Person 2: I think it's a white pegasus from G1

Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: TJgamer on April 12, 2019, 09:42:35 AM
I saw a really funny conversation on a discussion post about the premiere on dA haha. It went something like this:

Person 1: Who was that pony they kept mentioning? Crusty? Grusty?
Person 2: I think it's a white pegasus from G1


Haha. I've read someone mishearing that as "Dusty".   :lol:
I'd be shocked if we see Gusty again, even if just a flashback or hologram or something. It'd be even more surprising if Nancy Cartwright reprised her role.
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Ponyfan on April 12, 2019, 07:59:49 PM
I saw a really funny conversation on a discussion post about the premiere on dA haha. It went something like this:

Person 1: Who was that pony they kept mentioning? Crusty? Grusty?
Person 2: I think it's a white pegasus from G1


Haha. I've read someone mishearing that as "Dusty".   :lol:
I'd be shocked if we see Gusty again, even if just a flashback or hologram or something. It'd be even more surprising if Nancy Cartwright reprised her role.

The way Grogar talked I had to rewind (I record the episodes when they air to watch later) when he mentioned Gusty as I wasn't quite sure that he said her name the first time.  I can totally see someone mishearing her name. :lol:

I also think it would be fun to see Gusty in someway in FIM.

Ponyfan
Title: Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Carrehz on April 13, 2019, 02:37:11 PM
aww the book's cute, they even got her maple leaves in there. That's a nice touch.
Title: Re: \\\"The Beginning of the End\\\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 13, 2019, 04:42:52 PM
I'm more still trying to get over the idea of Gusty is now suddenly canon. The idea that it made her more official because they talked about her on an episode of FIM.

What's the problem with Gusty being on FiM?
Some of us like to see previous characters getting brought over into new gens. It's like when they mentioned "General Firefly" or had cameos of Toola Roola and Coconut Cream. And well, AJ was just cloned twice :lol:

Here, I'm just gonna come out and say it since I botched my explanation last time.

Its the brony attitude that past characters can only be valid and canon IF they are on the FiM show or else they think they don't count, that rankles.


Disclaimer: I  know people here don't think that way.


Post Merge: April 13, 2019, 04:48:55 PM

Actually, Grogar did practice necromancy in this premier when he brought Sombra back from the dead.  Though, he had no control over them.

Still, that misinterpretation of what the original Grogar has always bothered me.  My only guess is necromancy is commonly conflated with Voodoo which is associated with goats since the animals are a convenient source of body parts and fluids, and Grogar is a goat.

Still aint necromancy.

Post Merge: April 13, 2019, 04:52:34 PM

I mean, I don't know about the rest of you but I can't think of anyone better suited to ruling an entire empire than a sulky fashion designer, a stubborn farmer, a reckless daredevil, an insane party planner, a cripplingly shy wallflower, and an eternal student so egotistical as to think she is the world's only authority on how to make friends.  /s

 :haha: