The MLP Arena

TCB => Trader & Classifieds Support => Topic started by: kCherry on April 01, 2019, 11:03:32 AM

Title: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: kCherry on April 01, 2019, 11:03:32 AM
I don't really have an 'issue', more of a rant really. So very many people don't ship overseas and I guess I'll just have to become one of them. :sad:

I sold a pretty nice Mimic on eBay, shipped it immediately only to have to contact the buyer weeks later to receive a reply saying she's been busy and will check with her postal service. (Wow. If I spend over $100 on a pony I am all over that postal service from day one of it being shipped!!!) And of course, the UK post is telling her it's lost, so sorry.

So, I now have a $150 hold on my Paypal funds effectively putting me in a hard spot with my other sales as everything I currently sell is going towards this ridiculous negative balance currently showing in my funds. (I always keep my paypal monies in my account until buyers have received the items for this reason, but I made an emergency purchase when my phone bricked itself last week and it used up all those available funds first.) I just sold a doll yesterday and I'm having to pay shipping out of pocket cause of this crap. I'm so aggravated, atm. :mad:

And so, now we are just playing the waiting game while Paypal figures out that there is no fraud going on and that the item simply got lost in the mail. *sigh*

I will never ship an expensive, htf pony overseas again. Lesson very sadly learned....


At least it wasn't USPSs fault this time! XD
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 01, 2019, 12:09:41 PM
I don't think that one package means you shouldn't ship overseas, but you should be aware of your coverage of the shipping method you use.

Priority mail international: https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc3_006.htm
Quote
Priority Mail International shipments containing merchandise are insured against loss, damage, or missing contents up to $200 at no additional charge. Priority Mail International shipments containing only nonnegotiable documents are insured against loss, damage, or missing contents up to $100 for document reconstruction at no additional charge. Indemnity is paid by the U.S. Postal Service as provided in 933. For a fee, the sender may purchase additional insurance to protect against loss, damage, or missing contents for Priority Mail International items containing merchandise, subject to individual country limitations. Additional document reconstruction insurance may not be purchased. If the item has been lost, or if it has been delivered to the addressee in damaged condition or with missing contents, payment is made to the sender unless the sender waives the right to payment, in writing, in favor of the addressee.


I also think that it's not the best time to be sending to the UK right now...

ETA: When you start sending things that are $1,000 and up, that's when it gets dicey because you only have so much indemnity.

And you really have a chance of your domestic package going missing as well. For instance, my package was at a PA processing center when there was a mercury spill. It's pretty much missing in action right now for 9 days. (I have my doubts it will show up, but we will see).
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Skelletonimp on April 01, 2019, 12:12:14 PM
I'm so sorry this happened to you. And to the buyer :(
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 01, 2019, 07:45:05 PM
Does tracking show up on the package?  They are supposed to track First Class International packages from the US to UK but I know sometimes they don't. 
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 02, 2019, 06:37:17 AM
I get that right now you're annoyed because of the whole situation. I would be too. But punishing all international buyers because a parcel got lost is a major overreaction.

There are processes, and solutions. Banditpony is right. Claim the insurance on the lost item. Your buyer can't do that, only you can, because it was shipped USPS. It will cover the whole lost amount - problem dealt with. Cover exists in that situation to protect you and your buyer. She has to get her refund from you, but it doesn't mean you need to be out of pocket.

On the subject of the missing parcel and the UK post.

It's really unusual for it to go missing this side of the atlantic if there's tracking on it. It may be stuck in customs or maybe the label got damaged in transit, but I would check (if you didn't already) what the tracking says.

I say this because I have noticed increasingly erratic behaviour from the USPS international hubs over the last few months. I often have Chicago sending parcels to Canada by mistake (postcodes, sigh) but lately I had NY depot send my parcel first to Dubai then Bangladesh. Of course, it still got here, but it vanished off the tracking for a long time between arrival in Bangladesh and arrival eventually in the UK.

When that happens, its incumbent on the recipient country to either send it back or send it on. Sometimes that takes a while. Sometimes it doesn't happen. But it is worth checking whether that is what occurred. It may help your case with the USPS and claiming insurance.

As for posting to the UK, current situation is post is normal. Shipping anything here in Feb or March shouldn't have incurred any issues. From/around April 12th that may change, but only in a no deal scenario. We don't know yet if planes would be grounded in a no deal scenario, but there would be additional custom checks on EU packages which currently don't get checked by customs because of EU customs union. I personally am not buying from overseas until things are settled and whatever happens, happens - but it is worth noting that from 12th April, unless a deal is arranged, there could be additional delays in the UK post.

Right now, though, it should be fine.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 02, 2019, 02:45:22 PM
First Class International shipping doesn't include insurance.  If it gets lost, the seller can't claim anything from the PO.  If the OP paid by Priority International then they have options, but most people offer First Class International as buyers prefer it.

If the tracking got "dropped" (which I've had happen with First Class International before, even though they're supposed to track it to the doorstep for the UK) then it's possible the buyer did receive it and is now lying about it.  A lot of people (in every country, US included) would be scammers if presented with a low risk way to scam.  And if the tracking did drop, that might be an irresistible opportunity.

Sorry if that sounds cynical, but I've been collecting since the 90s, when NOTHING was tracked (unless you went out of your way to purchase separate tracking) and I've seen sooo many people scamming for ponies.  Just because the franchise is sweet and innocent doesn't mean the people collecting it are.

I would be a lot less suspicious if the pony in question was, like, Cotton Candy.  It just seems more than 'unlucky' that of all the ponies to go astray it was a Mimic, you know what I mean?  In my experience the UK post is pretty reliable.

Anyway, my fingers are crossed that everything is legit and the package either makes it to the buyer or is returned to you.  It can happen . . . I had someone buy a doll from me and after a month (and after I'd refunded them) it made its way back to me with "INVALID ADDRESS" written on the packaging.  I let the buyer know and told them they should update their address in case other packages went astray and they casually responded with "Oh yeah, none of the things I ordered off eBay arrived."  Ha ha, wow.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 02, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
I think my point was to not send out expensive items that do not have indemnity covered. If this was sent first class, then it should of been registered.

I don't think international buyers should be punished for one item going missing. I think sellers need to be aware of the risks, because it's always been a risk to send first class-- despite how many people who have great experiences. Because a post is never going to be 100% reliable.

OP will be fine with paypal if it shows that it arrived it the seller's county.

most people offer First Class International as buyers prefer it.

I'm a mean seller. I say "who cares if you prefer it, I prefer protection for us both" when it comes to expensive items. Because when we sell on larger platforms, sellers take the burden of having the package delivered.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 02, 2019, 04:11:34 PM
Ah, I see. So the method of shipping and the cover are two separate issues. Ok.

But yeah. The tracking thing...sellers have to protect themselves. It's nothing to do with the destination of the parcel. First priority when you send anything is make sure that method of sending covers you for the value of the item you're sending. The buyer pays the shipping or they don't buy from you. That's common sense, within the US or overseas.

Do we know for sure it arrived in the UK? I am cynical about that, I admit, because Royal Mail are usually a lot more reluctant to call a package lost if it's lost in their possession.

I understand the annoyance of the seller and the frustration of the paypal issue. But also, I'm fed up as an international buyer with international people being scapegoated simply for being abroad. It's way too easy to blame foreign people/foreign post for issues that are ultimately bad luck.

In reality in any shipping, anything could happen - a damaged label, being caught on another package and slipping into the wrong sorting container...an error on the customs form, even a mistake on the buyer's address that didn't get picked up on when they paid. Lots of possible explanations which, mostly, can apply to domestic selling as well as to international.

It is easier to ship within your own country, wherever you live, but one bad experience isn't enough in my view to stop shipping to people outside one's own borders.

On a final note, I don't question the ethics of the buyer in this case. If they were running a scam, they'd have received the pony and then gone on at the seller about it not arriving, wanting a refund, etc. That didn't happen. The OP said she pushed the buyer about whether it had arrived, and the the buyer started looking into it. If you're running a scam for a refund, you don't wait several weeks before putting it into action. In this case I think it's one or other postal services at fault.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Galactica on April 02, 2019, 06:13:37 PM
Yikes! I'm sorry that happened to you.  I've had stuff go missing for a while only to FINALLY turn up, but if the post is saying it is gone, than I guess it probably is.

How annoying though that paypal is holding your funds. Doesn't tracking show that you mailed it?  I didn't know they'd hold your $$ in those situations.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 02, 2019, 07:26:08 PM
How annoying though that paypal is holding your funds. Doesn't tracking show that you mailed it?  I didn't know they'd hold your $$ in those situations.

Tracking doesn't mean too much. Sellers have the burden of delivery, not that an item was shipped.

Paypal holds funds when a buyer opens up an "item not received" case because they are investigating and the seller most likely will need to do a full refund if the item doesn't show up. And they are making sure they don't spend the funds they might have to give back to the buyer.

Sometimes if the package is shown to arrive in the buyer's country, then sometimes that counts enough for paypal as delivery.

Also, when you check tracking-- don't just check within ebay... check with the buyer's post website as well. Sometimes more info shows up.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 02, 2019, 07:32:32 PM
Royal Mail also sometimes converts the tracking number to a UK tracking number on entry which sometimes gets lost in the confusion.

I find that the USPS site is better than the UK one for tracking packages in general, but it's worth a try if it helps. If RM say it's lost, it might not help - but I just had a thought from what banditpony said.

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item#/

That's the link, anyhow, but it occurred to me that if the buyer didn't phone Royal Mail and was just using this tracking thing it might have told her that the item was not located in the system. Which might have been interpreted as 'lost'. It's hard to know without details of the tracking and the investigation that went on - but just in case this helps.

Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 02, 2019, 07:35:21 PM
Royal Mail also sometimes converts the tracking number to a UK tracking number on entry which sometimes gets lost in the confusion.

I find that the USPS site is better than the UK one for tracking packages in general, but it's worth a try if it helps. If RM say it's lost, it might not help - but I just had a thought from what banditpony said.

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item#/

That's the link, anyhow, but it occurred to me that if the buyer didn't phone Royal Mail and was just using this tracking thing it might have told her that the item was not located in the system. Which might have been interpreted as 'lost'. It's hard to know without details of the tracking and the investigation that went on - but just in case this helps.



Interesting. I've always used the other country because other countries don't always report to USPS. As my post office says "Once the package arrives in the other country, USPS is no longer responsible for the package".

But UK must be different because they change the number.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 02, 2019, 07:44:22 PM
They don't always change the number. I think it depends on the type of post and how stringently it needs tracking. Also there's Parcelforce (which I doubt Mimic travelled by, she's far too small and light) which also has its own tracking system. The good thing about the RM tracking is that it tells you if the incoming item is actually going via parcelforce and not Royal Mail.

But yeah. My usual rule is to check both the sending country and recipient country tracking.

Unsurprisingly the best tracking I've found globally is Japanese. Predictable right....

But the USPS is not bad at giving details if you want them. That's why I know all the weird places they accidentally send my stuff xD.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 02, 2019, 07:57:56 PM
Unsurprisingly the best tracking I've found globally is Japanese. Predictable right....

Not incoming to the US.
I had mail recently come from there. Once it arrived in the US -- Japan post did not track what so ever until it was at the local post office.
(And skipped passing customs into the US, 5 distribution centers / other local post office that did sorting)
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Galactica on April 02, 2019, 09:23:31 PM
How annoying though that paypal is holding your funds. Doesn't tracking show that you mailed it?  I didn't know they'd hold your $$ in those situations.

Tracking doesn't mean too much. Sellers have the burden of delivery, not that an item was shipped.

Paypal holds funds when a buyer opens up an "item not received" case because they are investigating and the seller most likely will need to do a full refund if the item doesn't show up. And they are making sure they don't spend the funds they might have to give back to the buyer.

Sometimes if the package is shown to arrive in the buyer's country, then sometimes that counts enough for paypal as delivery.

Also, when you check tracking-- don't just check within ebay... check with the buyer's post website as well. Sometimes more info shows up.

Ebay usually will cover loss in this situation-  at least they used to.  You just have to prove you mailed the package.  Again, that is  how it USED to be.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 02, 2019, 10:15:51 PM
Sellers have been subject of proof of delivery for many, many years.

Quote
Tracking information needs to include:

1 A delivery status of "delivered"
2 The date of delivery
3 The recipient's address
4 Signature confirmation, if an item has a total cost of $750 or more



The thing that's different with international is:
Quote
Customs and international carrier issues

We adjust your late shipment rate and remove feedback if you ship internationally, and the shipment receives a domestic carrier scan within your handling time if:

The shipment is stuck or delayed in customs
The shipment is lost or receives no tracking scans by the international carrier

This is more so slanted about if a buyer is leaving negative feedback based on slowness. But that last bit is where I said if it's scanned in the destination country they should consider that as delivered. At least in the conversations I've had with eBay regarding this issue, that's what I learned.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 03, 2019, 12:50:45 AM
I'm a mean seller. I say "who cares if you prefer it, I prefer protection for us both" when it comes to expensive items. Because when we sell on larger platforms, sellers take the burden of having the package delivered.

I get this philosophy, I used to do this too--only Priority International.  But at that point you might as well just refuse to sell overseas, because most international buyers are going to stay away.  (Or continually ask you "not to use the GSP", because they see the high price and assume it's GSP.)

It also means you are eating up more fees from eBay.  The higher the shipping cost, the higher the eBay fees.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 03, 2019, 01:23:51 AM
I'm a mean seller. I say "who cares if you prefer it, I prefer protection for us both" when it comes to expensive items. Because when we sell on larger platforms, sellers take the burden of having the package delivered.

I get this philosophy, I used to do this too--only Priority International.  But at that point you might as well just refuse to sell overseas, because most international buyers are going to stay away.  (Or continually ask you "not to use the GSP", because they see the high price and assume it's GSP.)

It also means you are eating up more fees from eBay.  The higher the shipping cost, the higher the eBay fees.

My thought is still offer. They can buy or not. No biggie
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 03, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
This has slightly gone off from the original topic but I think it's valid anyway.

As an international buyer, I wouldn't say that the tracked more expensive pony option puts me off buying something. I make my decisions based on the rarity of the item, how delicate it is, the time of year (because some times are busier than others) and any other factors I haven't thought about.

THat means if I saw a MOC Pinwheel, for example, with a $50 shipping tag, I'd be fine with it. Because it would mean she was covered in her shipping to the UK, even though it would bump up my import duty as well.

If I see a loose Butterscotch with a $50 shipping tag, that's not going to happen, even if I needed the pony. Because...yeah. Obvious, right?

GSP also has its moments. It can be used for shipping large heavy lots of loose ponies that don't sell really high to the UK without incurring massive charges on the weight. Weird but true.

As a seller in the UK, our tracked shipping to the US costs around $15 for a single pony, which is not that much more than the base rate without protection that we've been discussing here. Then it goes up incrementally depending on value and weight, but the maximum is still around $25ish I think. So I don't find it a huge problem to insist on tracking. Speaking as someone who has regularly paid $14, $21, or $35 for items from the US.

The problems here come when the item has bigger combined dimensions than 90cm, because then it goes parcelforce and then you see silly money charges - from around $15-25 to $100ish.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: kCherry on April 03, 2019, 12:37:47 PM
Damn, I totally forgot how fast these TS posts move! XD I should have had my coffee before I made my original post! LMAO

Thanks for the link Taffeta. USPS only tells me so much once the package reached the UK; the Royal Mail sites last track on the package:

"Item has left our International Processing Centre
Heathrow Worldwide Distribution Centre, United Kingdom"

I think it's safe to say that it's lost, but I have had things delivered to me personally that were never tracked properly in the system and "never arrived" according to tracking, so it is possible that the buyer has the pony. I do, however, prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt in these situations. Her communication has been great and I don't really get any red flags from the situation. If she's scamming, there's no real way to prove it and frankly, she's the one that will have to deal with the karma, not me, so..

Also, I will say that my OP comments may have been rash; I have had stuff go missing shipped domestic, too. It was a 6AM, pre-coffee, "WTH? I have a -$150 balance in my Paypal??!" post. And needless to say, I was rather ill with the situation. I'm still not sure I'll be posting HTFs overseas in a hurry, the risk just seems too high. Even with loads of coverage, I still have a hard time dealing with the loss of the collectible. And selling over the last +10 years I can say without a doubt I have had more go missing overseas than inside the US. Much more domestic damage, but less loss. -_-

Anyways, I'm sure I missed something or someone's question/ comment. I ~think~ we are both covered by eBay/Paypal in this particular case. I don't understand exactly why I have a hold on my funds and yet she has not yet received a refund, but whatever. I know that they have their date-minded hoops they like us to jump through. And I understand they deal with a lot of fraud and dishonesty so I don't mind following the rules... As I said in the OP, I am just aggravated. End of story.

I'll keep you guys posted..
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 03, 2019, 01:05:53 PM
"Item has left our International Processing Centre
Heathrow Worldwide Distribution Centre, United Kingdom"

Unless it says otherwise, I'd read that as it's in customs. When it's out of customs it usually says "Item is on route to destination". But it may just have missed being scanned. Do you have a datestamp for that status (ie when it was last seen?)

Other possibility is it's at her local depot waiting for a charge card to be delivered with a customs fee on it. They don't give online notification for those.

Or, admittedly, it could be lost.

On the international shipping thing, it's already hard enough for people not in the US to obtain certain items. People who live in and ship from the US don't appreciate those challenges because you are fortunate to live in such a large domestic community that can often fulfil those needs. We don't have that luxury.

I have had more bad deals with the US than anywhere else in the 2 decades I've dealt in ponies online. I've also been scammed twice out of rare ponies by American collectors - I've never been scammed by anyone else, anywhere. If I said, based on that, that I wasn't shipping to the US any more because it was too risky, a lot of people would take offence. And I wouldn't say it, because I know that there are a lot of awesome people in the US and you can't base your decisions on one or two bad experiences. More, you can't punish a whole globe of people becuase one pony went astray.

It's sad and unfortunate if the pony is missing, but by refusing to ship things overseas, you become one more person making it more difficult and expensive for us to obtain things we need. We often already pay hiked custom charges due to mistakes on custom forms. We also pay double postage because of having to ship to a proxy or middleman to get items here. We have to deal in your currency because no US seller accepts or negotiates in £, € or any other kind of $ than US.

To then read yet another person kneejerking on an inconvenient but resolveable issue is therefore frustrating. Ultimately we deal with much bigger challenges buying from and selling to abroad than I think a lot of people in the US realise, because we don't make a lot of fuss about it and just do it.

I really think sometimes that US only sellers should come spend 6 months in Europe and see what it's like these days trying to buy from the US. I guarantee it would be a real eye opener...
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 03, 2019, 01:24:52 PM
Anyways, I'm sure I missed something or someone's question/ comment. I ~think~ we are both covered by eBay/Paypal in this particular case. I don't understand exactly why I have a hold on my funds and yet she has not yet received a refund, but whatever.

There's a few outcomes.

1) eBay decides in your favor because item arrived in destination country and that's "good enough" to count as delivery. Buyer doesn't get a refund.
2) eBay decides in buyers favor because wasn't delivered to the door step, you lose the money. (This is why shipping with indemnity is important)
3) eBay sooometimes covers both parties if they are outstanding and haven't dealt with issues before.

I've seen it go all three ways
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 03, 2019, 01:30:21 PM
I am with Taffeta.... those few of us international buyers really depend on sellers who will sell to us without GSP.  I will pay the cost of priority but I understand it's expensive for everyone....
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Nella on April 03, 2019, 07:32:17 PM
Based upon PayPal policy:

"PayPal Buyer Protection for items that have not been shipped does not cover items lost in transit. If the seller can provide within the required time frame valid proof of shipment (as described in more detail in the PayPal Seller Protection Policy), or a respective equivalent proving shipment and/or receipt as agreed between PayPal and the seller, PayPal will refuse to grant PayPal Buyer Protection."

Post Merge: April 03, 2019, 07:33:54 PM

And the link (paragraph 4.1): https://www.paypal.com/ch/webapps/mpp/ua/buyerprotection-full?locale.x=en_CH

Post Merge: April 03, 2019, 07:38:22 PM

And the relevant info from the seller protection policy (paragraph 6):

"Proof of Shipment
You, must prove shipment of the item vis-à-vis PayPal by online or physical documentation, which fulfills the following requirements:
Confirmation that the item has been shipped and date of postage;
The recipient’s address (as given in the Transaction Details);
Official acceptance by the shipping company (for example a receipt or online tracking information according to which PayPal can track the shipment).
Additional requirements in case of INR
To be covered by PayPal Seller Protection in case of INR you as the Seller must ship the item within 7 calendar days of receipt of payment in your PayPal Account. This does not apply to pre-ordered or made-to-order goods where shipment is required within the timeframe specified in the eBay item listing, or, if the transaction was made outside of eBay, the shipment policy or other specification on the merchant’s website."

Post Merge: April 03, 2019, 07:40:13 PM

And the other link: https://www.paypal.com/ch/webapps/mpp/ua/sellerprotection-full?locale.x=en_CH
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 03, 2019, 07:46:21 PM
EBay and PayPal are separate. So I'm not sure PP policy trumps eBay's. I quoted eBay policy on the top of this page, including regarding international which is a bit more lenient.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Noasar on April 03, 2019, 08:32:20 PM
Aw Cherry, I really hope it turns up, for your sake and the buyers. I’ve never had anything go missing on our side - Royal Mail are usually pretty good and I really wouldn’t be surprised if it showed up eventually in 2/3 weeks or something. The tracking shows it at least landed in the UK. Hopefully eBay/PayPal will be able to reimburse you when they see that you have done your part and posted it safely, with tracking.

Brexit won’t be having any effect on the post at the moment and I doubt it will. Things will keep ticking over somehow!

I hope poor Mimic doesn’t stay lost in customs forever! Either that or she’s in a van somewhere doing a tour of the UK XD
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 04, 2019, 12:26:19 AM
eBay's seller protection doesn't cover lost packages;  the seller has to refund.  It doesn't matter if there's proof of shipping;  as far as eBay is concerned, the seller has not fulfilled their obligation until the tracking shows the package as "delivered", not just "sent."

The stuff on the Seller Protection page about "eBay protects you if you ship internationally within your shipping time!" is not about delivery;  it's about the time it takes for a parcel to arrive.  Like, if I'm a US seller and my US buyer doesn't get their parcel for three weeks, then I would be in trouble because that's too long.  But if I'm a US seller shipping to the UK and it takes three weeks, I'm not in trouble (because eBay acknowledges international shipping can be slow.)

If an international package never arrives at all, then the seller is still on the hook.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Nella on April 04, 2019, 04:39:52 AM
EBay and PayPal are separate. So I'm not sure PP policy trumps eBay's. I quoted eBay policy on the top of this page, including regarding international which is a bit more lenient.
It would seem to be strange receiving payment through PayPal and not being covered due to eBay policy. Wouldn't it be possible to open a case through PayPal to make use of the seller protection? Maybe you'll need to cover the buyer but PayPal will cover you?

Post Merge: April 04, 2019, 04:51:19 AM

I found the explanation I think (one more reason for me to never sell on eBay!): https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/abblog/blog.pl?/pl/2018/3/1521418835.html
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: glitterball on April 04, 2019, 05:22:16 PM
So stressful  :yikes:

My guess is that it is stuck in a cage at customs or at the local depot, waiting for a customs charge to be paid.

I would ask the buyer to speak nicely to the folks at their local depot to see if they have a lonely package waiting for them!

I have done this a few times, most recently, I collected a missed-delivery that the postie didn't leave a card for, my poor parcel had been there a whole week! Luckily they know my face at my depot so were very obliging and swiftly processed the delivery at the desk.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: kCherry on April 08, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Case closed. Buyer refunded by eBay as she should have been. Spoke to Paypal and I have to take it up with the postal services. Royal Mail says talk to USPS. USPS says it went to customs; not our problem.

Hard Lesson Learned.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Loona on April 08, 2019, 05:43:49 PM
Ah :( I'm happy you are at least not out of pocket, but losing a Mimic is still too sad... I'll still be keeping my fingers crossed for you. I just recently (during the winter) had a package getting declared as lost by Royal Mail, but then it reappeared a few weeks after. It took a REALLY long time to finally get to me (together with getting lost and being redelivered it was almost 2 months), but it was not urgent, and I was just very happy things turned out fine in the end :) I'll be wishing the same for you and your buyer!

As for the postal situation, I'm sure Taffeta has more insight as a first-hand experiencer, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were delays in the UK mailing system right now. As a result of the current situation, a lot of people I know are currently making massive purchases from the UK to stock up on things they used to get from there in the past. I know this is technically mail going the other direction, but it might still keep the overall system busier than usual.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 08, 2019, 05:46:34 PM
Reality is that I don't think anything officially has disrupted post yet. But I hadn't thought about people doing what you suggest, Loona. That might have an impact.

Recently I sent something within the UK 2nd class, though, which usually takes 2 days, and it got there in 1. I wouldn't like to guess what the situation will be like next week yet, but for the rest of this week it should be okay.

I also think Mimic will show up. It's hard to guess where, but I think it's probable she's in customs or more likely, where glitterball suggested. It *is* an increasing problem with slips not being put through the door and thus people not being alerted to parcels waiting for them. My depot helpfully does the opposite, it signs for stuff that has a custom charge before sending the slip, so I often get told it's been delivered prior to my getting it (you can imagine how annoying that is) but I know of other people who don't get cards any more and have to play hide and seek with the depot staff to find their post.

If this is the case, when she is unclaimed, she'll be sent back to the original sender. Let's hope that she ends up in one or other location at least.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: NightGliderSA on April 09, 2019, 08:47:59 AM
I really hope she turns up! Please let us know what happens.

Poor (temporarily) lost Mimic.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Galactica on April 09, 2019, 05:57:20 PM
Case closed. Buyer refunded by eBay as she should have been. Spoke to Paypal and I have to take it up with the postal services. Royal Mail says talk to USPS. USPS says it went to customs; not our problem.

Hard Lesson Learned.

So ebay refunded the buyer out of your funds? Ebay did not cover you ???
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 09, 2019, 06:07:03 PM
Case closed. Buyer refunded by eBay as she should have been. Spoke to Paypal and I have to take it up with the postal services. Royal Mail says talk to USPS. USPS says it went to customs; not our problem.

Hard Lesson Learned.

So ebay refunded the buyer out of your funds? Ebay did not cover you ???

Sellers have to cover themselves with insurance/indemnity.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on April 09, 2019, 11:03:18 PM
Ouch. Once my pony turned up a month late and I did actually contact the seller and manage to pay them the money (Ebay had already given me an automatic refund in the meantime). I hope the same happens for you.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 10, 2019, 10:33:18 AM
Case closed. Buyer refunded by eBay as she should have been. Spoke to Paypal and I have to take it up with the postal services. Royal Mail says talk to USPS. USPS says it went to customs; not our problem.

Hard Lesson Learned.

So ebay refunded the buyer out of your funds? Ebay did not cover you ???

Sellers have to cover themselves with insurance/indemnity.

I agree with banditpony.

The lesson is, get insurance. Not "don't ship overseas".

The reason I emphasise that is that if you take the approach that "I will always ship with the correct insurance value", then wherever you ship an item, you are always covered for the full amount if it goes missing.

If you take the approach, "I will not ship rare items overseas any more", then you risk another similar situation if you ship a rare pony within the US without proper insurance and it goes missing.

As a seller you put yourself at risk if you don't consider how to protect yourself in all postage situations, and it's far too easy for people to just blame "foreign stuff" and assume that's the reason for the problem.

I feel very strongly about this.

I also feel that, with this being a global community, we should be putting more emphasis on how to help sellers confused or scared about international shipping to debunk the myths and move forward. I think that would be more helpful than tolerating rants against international shipping for spurious or generalised reasons.

Obviously I believe that everyone has the right to ship where they choose. What I would like to see change is not that everyone ships internationally, since there are many reaons that some people can't. What I want to change is that negative and often exaggerated rumours of the hassle of international shipping are less encouraged.

Reality is that shipping internationally is neither risky nor hard. I feel there's a barrier of assumption or lack of knowledge that's made it more ok to make sweeping statements. But we're a global community who should support each other more. And if that means being more explicit about things like insurance, custom fees, and how to lay down the law to a buyer who complains about those things, then that's what we should be doing.

Finally, I still think the pony will show at one place or another. But if it is sitting in a depot it will go back to the seller. In which case, the deficit will be covered. It could take some months, though. I'd love it for us to be informed if she does, indeed, show up.
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 10, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
I still bellow in agreement from the rooftops with Taffeta.
Sellers should never send without insurance, ideally the buyer should pay for it, but unless you want to give the pony away for free or risk it getting lost/destroyed, that's what the service is for.


It just doesn't feel good to be told byso many MLP sellers that they refuse to do business with me based on the fact that I live in Canada, just based on a previous transaction that went faulty because it was not insured properly. That isn't my fault, why should any future business I want to have be quashed at the outset?
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 11, 2019, 09:30:48 AM
I agree with you guys, and I live in the USA.

It really doesn't add much more time to just charge proper shipping with insurance when it comes to more valuable items.

If you can't do priority mail (cost?), then you can get it for intl first class by using Shipcover through ebay: https://pages.ebay.com/insurance/shipping/shipcover.html
Quote
ShipCover insurance costs $1.65 per $100
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Ringlets on April 12, 2019, 10:19:05 AM
*hugs Cherry* :hug:  What a stressful situation  :(  I do think that Mimic will turn up eventually. As mentioned it's rare for an item to not show up at all unless the address part of the packaging is completely messed up (both addresses, otherwise the pony will either go to the buyer eventually or make her way back to you in the US .. it may take a couple of months. 2 - 3 months I've known it to happen in the past  :awake:
The post here in the UK is not being affected by the  (*shudder* :yikes: ) "B" word  :whew:  unless as Loona suggested it's especially busy due to overseas buyers buying from here in case of possible disruption caused by (that word I hate) . As far as that's concerned at least there is a 6 month delay now ;) but any time of the year when there is more post than usual causes delays as you know.
Personally I always ship with tracking now. I like to ship internationally and buy internationally , but I understand that to keep both buyer and seller covered in cases like yours, it's much better to pay the extra for shipping tracked, and ask my buyers to do the same.  If you offer to sell to international peeps with tracking/insurance only then it is their choice to make, it covers you in case anything goes amiss in the post, but doesn't mean anyone loses out. Hope that makes sense? :what:  With HTF /expensive ponies and customs people are usually more than willing to pay a bit more to make sure their pony arrives safely :)
For example : I'd still like the option to buy from you another time  but I'd happily pay  insurance/tracking. Just as I ask other international people who buy items from me  to pay for the tracked service too :relaxed:
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 12, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
I think if the B word (am in total agreement with you Ringlets on that) does ultimately affect post in and out of the UK, we will probably have to make a thread in this forum to explain the changes (if we even understand them) and the possible delays.

I'm annoyed by the B word too, but just as annoyed by people pretending like it won't have any impact. Reality is that if there is a no-deal (either now in June or Oct), added tarrifs immediately come into play on EU stuff, much of which is currently sent without a customs form, so if borders have to do extra checks on all that stuff they currently don't check, things will get slowed down. That is a worst case scenario, but ignoring that it could happen is as ridiculous as the B word itself.

The reason I mention that is that the biggest cause of problems in transactions, international or domestic, is not knowing stuff. If you know properly how to ship internationally, use insurance, stand firm on custom forms, fill in a custom form, and what the various postage options are - then obviously there's less of a problem than if you just trot to the PO and hope everything will be fine.

Reality is knowledge is power. *shrug*.

I also think there's no real malice in the sweeping generalisations people make about overseas shipping, but there's a lack of understanding about the impact of those decisions. Its easy for people to make sweeping statements if they've never been on the receiving end of a generalised ban based on (sometimes very vague) geography.

We have to stop normalising using international collectors as a convenient scapegoat for not knowing stuff.

I don't want to make it like I'm putting all the blame on the OP, I'm not. What has happened here sucks and I really hope the pony is returned back to her. It just sucks most because instead of taking the right lesson from the experience, about taking proper precautions on expensive items, it's become another nail in the coffin of international trading.

I've noticed that in the last couple of years, where previously many US people were knowledgeable about the systems and happy to ship internationally, there's been a return to domestic only and all the old falsehoods about the global market. I don't know if it's because postage in the US has changed so much or if it's just people who had experience being replaced by those that don't, but it's a worrying trend that's complicating collecting for people all over the world.

 I think there's more we can do to help make the prospect of shipping overseas less scary and more accessible - for everyone.

Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Ringlets on April 12, 2019, 11:09:08 AM
No worries . If and when anything does happen to change things when it comes to the UK post/customs etc  then of course we'll make a post about it here. That's only fair. I'm just saying that for now nothing has changed with our postal system or customs fees in the UK.   If it does change then we'll definitely inform people  :awake:
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Noasar on April 12, 2019, 12:07:58 PM
No worries . If and when anything does happen to change things when it comes to the UK post/customs etc  then of course we'll make a post about it here. That's only fair. I'm just saying that for now nothing has changed with our postal system or customs fees in the UK.   If it does change then we'll definitely inform people  :awake:

I agree Ringlets, no point in stressing about what might be until we actually know what's going to happen. In the meantime let's enjoy being in the UK for a few more months.

Also hindsight is a wonderful thing. The item was posted with tracking, I think Cherry was being a responsible seller when she did so. Fingers crossed Mimic shows up which I am quietly confident she will!
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: kCherry on April 12, 2019, 12:21:12 PM
Thank you guys for the support!! :hug: It really does help!! :lovey:

*hugs Cherry* :hug:  What a stressful situation  :(  I do think that Mimic will turn up eventually. As mentioned it's rare for an item to not show up at all unless the address part of the packaging is completely messed up (both addresses, otherwise the pony will either go to the buyer eventually or make her way back to you in the US .. it may take a couple of months. 2 - 3 months I've known it to happen in the past  :awake:

  Thanks, Hun. Once upon a time, a long, long time ago I had a package go missing overseas (I believe it was Europe-bound and made it there) that traveled the globe for four months before coming back to me! I would like to hope that Mimic is not fated to spend eternity in that dark box!


  Now that I have gotten over the situation a little I did want to post one last time and add some clarification to this post. This is an abridged version of the transaction in its entirety:

  The shipping service my buyer paid for came with tracking and some insurance, although it was not sent Priority. She was shipped Mar 1st. Tracking shows the package leaving the US and then scanned into the UK tracking system three times in two different locations. The last scan was Mar 7th. I contacted my buyer on the 22nd inquiring about the pony. My buyer said she had been busy, no had not received the package and would check with her postal service. She got back with me in a couple of days and said that she was told by the post that the parcel was lost and she requested "a resolution" from me at that time. I then instructed her to contact eBay and begin a case/dispute and let eBay know that the package was lost in transit. Once the case was opened my Paypal account then showed a negative balance for the amount of her payment to me. I added tracking to the case and we were required to wait until past the shipping window for eBay to step in. Once eBay stepped in they favored my Buyer who then, of course, "won the dispute." My Paypal account was "debited the money that she paid me on the original purchase" aka, the negative balance remained.
I then tried to contact my buyer again to get a confirmation that she did indeed receive her refund, but she has not responded in several days, so I am assuming that she did.

At this point, I contacted eBay and Paypal. And this is where it gets fun; eBay said I needed to take it up with Paypal. Paypal said I needed to take it up with the shipping services. I contacted the Royal Mail and was told that I needed to contact the original posting company. And of course, when I spoke with USPS they said they have fulfilled their shipping services once it gets to customs, which tracking shows it obviously did.

I've done this dance before. I cannot speak for others who use USPS in their areas but in mine, it is damn near impossible to get reimbursement for a claim, regardless of whether or not it was lost in the domestic US. And once it goes outside of the States everybody passes the buck and the seller/shipper has very little to no recourse. Except to pray that the merch comes back one fine day.

So, I'll pray for Mimic. If she ever comes back to me I will update this thread. And again, thanks for all the support while I've dealt with this ick. I've appreciated it. :happy:
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: banditpony on April 12, 2019, 02:20:51 PM
You need to open a claim if you had insurance.

Neither PayPal not eBay are going to ever help you with this. You have to take it up with the shipping service who insured it. You NEED to make a claim.

And it could be it was only insured within the us, I don't know what you chose. But there are options for getting things insured in other countries.

Do you want to give more details we we can try to help you not be out of money?
Title: Re: Mimic Lost in the UK Post ;-;
Post by: Taffeta on April 12, 2019, 03:07:32 PM
@Ringlets, my apologies, I didn't mean to suggest you were saying there wasn't any issues going to arise from B-word. It's just a general frustration I've encountered from a few sellers recently assuming nothing can go wrong. Maybe it's just my B-word fatigue kicking in :)

Ok, back on topic .

@KCherry, thanks, that extra detail maybe clears up what happened.

So this may be of help.

https://www.usps.com/international/insurance-extra-services.htm

I am wondering if this is the service used.

Quote
Registered Mail® Service

This service provides additional protection and security in dispatch and conveyance within the United States. Indemnity limits are much lower for Registered Mail items than for insured mail. Individual country prohibitions and restrictions apply.

Available with
First–Class Mail International®
First–Class Package International Service®
Cost

First-Class Mail International $16.00
First-Class Package International Service $16.00

The bolded part is key. It suggests that cover only exists to the US border. That sounds like what USPS told the OP, about it not being their problem once customs in the UK had it.

This postage method is fine, but not for valuable items. I think some of the other options, including Priority, would protect you door to door (though again, Americans please chip in with detail if I am wrong).

Priority etc and insurance can be more expensive which can frighten some bidders or buyers. But bottom line is if they are serious customers, they will pay to protect their item and will factor both that and potential customs charges into the equation as well. Or they should.

One reason we're thinking it's stuck at the depot somewhere is that if an item has a charge, what happens is that the depot takes it hostage and then a card is sent to the address on the package telling them about the charge, which must be paid before the item is released. If the charge isn't paid, the item is rejected and sent back to the sender. This process can take a few weeks or more but it is the most likely outcome.

If the custom form got damaged in transit somehow or there was a query, it might sit longer in customs to be manually assessed, but the most usual situation is the above.

This makes me think Mimic will eventually turn up, probably back in America, in a few months...but we'll see.

In any case, for future reference, maybe this is helpful. And even if it means being a stricter seller on insurance and such, that's definitely better than punishing the whole world outside the US because someone in a postal system somewhere messed up.

Good luck and I hope Mimic returns soon :)