The MLP Arena

TCB => Trader & Classifieds Support => Topic started by: ollivander on October 30, 2018, 11:23:28 AM

Title: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: ollivander on October 30, 2018, 11:23:28 AM
Hi everyone,

I hope I'm posting in the right place.

If you are buying ponies on Ebay make sure to stay clear from deanmon23. He's a UK based Ebay seller.

I have bought a nirvana from him not 2 months ago and was overcharged £5,95 on international shipping. Shipping labels in the UK show clearly the amount paid for postage including insurance but he wouldn't have it and he offered no refund. More, he was extremely rude!

I left a neutral feedback for him since the item was in order but then the other day the exact same thing happend to another pony collector and UK based! She was overcharged £4. Again no refund and rude attitude.

This was the last reply I had from him about my case, just to show you this seller's attitude:

"Look I'll put it this way I know what I was charged I don't particularly care if you believe me or not. If you like collecting ponies I'd let drop without bad feedback because we have another 200 or so pretty rare ones going up when the offers on again. If you don't let it drop or leave bad feedback you'll miss out as I will bar you from future listings. I don't know how you've got it in your head that insurance shows on the SHIPPING costs label I do not know it never has and never will do and I also cannot find the it anywhere on the RM site either. I'm damned if I'm losing money on something thats already delivered. I don't need to hear from you again about this subject I'm not losing money on postage because your being cheap end of story I will not reply to any further communication from you."

I think he deserves to be made known in the pony community at this stage.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: Taffeta on October 30, 2018, 11:37:22 AM
Insurance cost shows up on the shipping label.

As someone in the UK who ships with and without insurance overseas regularly I can confirm this. Basically tracking and insurance is an additional charge in the UK but the way RM works is that there are rates without tracking and insurance, and then different levels of rate depending on value of item and weight etc. But unless its a really tiny post office sticking on stamps, the total cost of the shipping would be on the price label that was printed at the time the item was posted. Including the cost for insurance.

If he was telling the truth then he would have a receipt from the PO showing he paid separately for insurance. I think it is possible that a PO might get muddled and then add it in later on one occasion, but it seems dodgy otherwise. Unless he made a mistake in printing labels online and ended up paying for insurance separately, but again if it's not on the item label, it suggests it's not included.

Overcharging on shipping isn't actually against ebay's rules if it's an up front cost listed in the auction, however shady that seems, because ebay also take fees on shipping costs paid. But even so, the Royal Mail system of postage is very simple and it is possible to look up all the costs online ahead of time, so there isn't really an excuse :/
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 30, 2018, 02:03:08 PM
Thanks for the warning, he is now on the Bad Traders List :(
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: StrawberrySundance on October 30, 2018, 02:10:35 PM
I was actually going to bid on an SS Sundance from him the other day, I'm glad I didn't, thanks for telling us :)
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: ollivander on October 30, 2018, 02:23:56 PM
Overcharging on shipping isn't actually against ebay's rules if it's an up front cost listed in the auction, however shady that seems, because ebay also take fees on shipping costs paid. But even so, the Royal Mail system of postage is very simple and it is possible to look up all the costs online ahead of time, so there isn't really an excuse :/

That's also part of the problem with this seller.
In his ad he quoted international shipping at £6,50, which was fine. After I won the auction he invoiced me with £15 shipping charges. I immediately questioned that amount and he said that due to the high value of the pony he was going to use sign for tracked, so fair enough, I could understand that.

When I got the package the postal stamp was only £9,05 and he just made out tons of excuses and did not refund. As you've said everything is spelled out very clearly on the RM website, I went and checked things while writing to him. This was not even 2 months ago.
Then the other day a UK based collector made a warning post about this same seller because she was charged £8 and actual shipping was only £3,95


Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on October 30, 2018, 03:59:11 PM
This is a good reminder do not pay a seller more then what's stated in the auction.

The seller should never ask for more money. NEVER. Again -- do not pay more.

The seller is under no obligation to refund excess charge.

I can only speak for USPS..but we can buy third party insurance and I don't think this reflects on the postage. I've also bought additional insurance from the USPS in person after printing a label, and that wasn't reflected on the package. (like needed to buy an additional $800 because you can only buy so much online).  I however don't think that is the case here, but I just want to point out that.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: Taffeta on October 31, 2018, 08:45:19 AM
Yeah, that's shady. I have had this situation once before with a seller who decided she hadn't charged me enough for shipping because she needed to send it tracked. It ended up really chaotic though I did get my pony in the end. It does sound as though this particular seller is a perennial overcharger on shipping and that is enough in my view to report to ebay. The extra cost is not listed in the auction description and if you have proof of the postage amount (which £9.05 sounds about right to me for a pony with tracking overseas) you can report to ebay that this person is skimming profits from buyers but avoiding paying extra on fees to ebay.

I think the message the seller sent you is definitely unacceptable as well, as it is implying a threat (Shut up or I'll block you from buying my rare ponies).

I think both you and the other buyer should individually report these cases to ebay. If he blocks you, well, you aren't going to deal with him again, are you? So I wouldn't let his threats put you off.

With the other example of the UK person, that's just as irritating. In that case from the price of the postage, basically the seller cheaped out. The £3.95 rate is one I use a lot, it's second class signed for delivery rate. First class would be £4.40, and would arrive quicker. Neither of these rates includes detailed tracking.Though there is a tracking number it is really confirmation of delivery of the item. This method does provide cover and these two rates are really useful - but it sounds as though he charged the buyer for next day delivery tracked and signed and then sent via the cheapest possible UK rate with any form of tracking number. I don't know the value of the ponies involved, but I think that rate only covers up to a certain amount, too.

@Banditpony, Royal Mail does not have that option, though some other services do. The postage is printed all together on the label as the rate itself is including insurance or otherwise (and tracking or delivery confirmation or both etc). So the price on the label is what the seller paid to ship the item.  And while ebay don't care much about overcharging on shipping when it is listed in the auction, I imagine they'd be interested in hiked shipping outside of the auction because they are being cheated out of the fees owed them as well...
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on October 31, 2018, 09:06:03 AM
@Banditpony, Royal Mail does not have that option, though some other services do. The postage is printed all together on the label as the rate itself is including insurance or otherwise (and tracking or delivery confirmation or both etc). So the price on the label is what the seller paid to ship the item.  And while ebay don't care much about overcharging on shipping when it is listed in the auction, I imagine they'd be interested in hiked shipping outside of the auction because they are being cheated out of the fees owed them as well...

Oh I was referring to a third party insurance through ebay -- called shipcover. It wouldn't be an option through Royal mail. It's an option through ebay. I don't know if it's available to the UK. I just wanna just through it out there as general knowledge.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: NightGliderSA on October 31, 2018, 09:11:36 AM
Ouch! What a rude seller! And as Taffeta mentioned, they are using bullying tactics to make you leave them alone. It's probably better to report them to eBay and not buy anything further from them in any event.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: Taffeta on October 31, 2018, 09:22:36 AM
@Banditpony, Royal Mail does not have that option, though some other services do. The postage is printed all together on the label as the rate itself is including insurance or otherwise (and tracking or delivery confirmation or both etc). So the price on the label is what the seller paid to ship the item.  And while ebay don't care much about overcharging on shipping when it is listed in the auction, I imagine they'd be interested in hiked shipping outside of the auction because they are being cheated out of the fees owed them as well...

Oh I was referring to a third party insurance through ebay -- called shipcover. It wouldn't be an option through Royal mail. It's an option through ebay. I don't know if it's available to the UK. I just wanna just through it out there as general knowledge.

I'm not aware of it but I haven't done any selling on ebay since they garbled their categories so I may be out of date. But if that were the case the seller would surely have said as much...
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on October 31, 2018, 09:30:36 AM
I'm not aware of it but I haven't done any selling on ebay since they garbled their categories so I may be out of date. But if that were the case the seller would surely have said as much...
I was just giving random info. Since I don't live in UK I don't know how it works over there. There could of been something similar.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: Taffeta on October 31, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
I'm not aware of it but I haven't done any selling on ebay since they garbled their categories so I may be out of date. But if that were the case the seller would surely have said as much...
I was just giving random info. Since I don't live in UK I don't know how it works over there. There could of been something similar.

No, I've learned something. But I just took a quick look and it doesn't seem to be a service provided outside of the US. From what I just read about it, it also sounds like it's only available on ebay printed labels and it would probably therefore be displayed on the postage label anyway, but I may be wrong about that. The fact the seller is so adamant that shipping and insurance would not show up together kind of contradicts that. He he specifically mentions Royal Mail in his reply, too, so it suggests that he used that service. Probably at a PO or via the RM site, not ebay, else the full shipping amount paid would probably have been shown on the label (ditto if it was done via paypal I think?)

 I think that this is just a shady seller looking to skim off extra profits. And I think he should be reported as he is breaking ebay rules as well as cheating honest bidders. (And threatening a buyer is also not good).
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: ollivander on October 31, 2018, 10:56:21 AM
This is a good reminder do not pay a seller more then what's stated in the auction.

The seller should never ask for more money. NEVER. Again -- do not pay more.

The seller is under no obligation to refund excess charge.

I can only speak for USPS..but we can buy third party insurance and I don't think this reflects on the postage. I've also bought additional insurance from the USPS in person after printing a label, and that wasn't reflected on the package. (like needed to buy an additional $800 because you can only buy so much online).  I however don't think that is the case here, but I just want to point out that.

In another case I think I would have let that pony go after seeing shipping charges doubled  but this was a nirvana I've been after for years so I accepted and believed what he said, that he was using a more expensive shipping option. It all seemed legit and actually felt he was taking good care of an expensive pony.

When I saw £6 extra on top of the pony cost and the actual shipping paid it didn't really go down well. Then he did it again the other day to another collector so that's an habit. I don't think anyone would like to be charged that much extra.

As Taffeta said in the UK shipping charges are clearly marked on the stamps/labels, so I knew there were no "hidden extra charges" as he the seller claimed.

I did report him to ebay and they told me exactly what you said: not to pay when there is an increase from what was originally quoted. They also told me they weren't able to reach him on the phone as they wanted him to explain why he did that. The operator also told me to take no notice of his threats and to leave for him whatever feedback I felt appropriate
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on October 31, 2018, 11:03:39 AM
Yeah, there's nothing they really do for rudeness.

I'll repeat my point. This goes for everyone. Do not pay additional money for shipping beyond what's quoted.

And overcharge is allowed by eBay, so you won't be able to recoup costs. Overcharging should be reflected in the star system.

You also can't do anything about rudeness. The best thing is to go only through eBay, and not message that seller anymore. (there's a member here who got continuely harassed by a seller.. going beyond messaging).

so I accepted and believed what he said, that he was using a more expensive shipping option. It all seemed legit and actually felt he was taking good care of an expensive pony.
I want to add this is just not true-- it was far from.legit. 1) the seller should be adding that extra cost up front in the auction. 2) it's the sellers responsibility to get that item to you safely and as described so they carry that burden. And 3) even if they miscalculated a cost, they need to pay the difference between real price and quoted price.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: LadyMoondancer on October 31, 2018, 01:59:08 PM
I mean, sometimes you have to weigh the pros and cons.  I had a seller contact me and ask for an additional 3 euros because shipping was more than they expected. 

I could have refused, and I would have been in the right. But this seller had HTF country-specific merchandise, they originally only sold within their own country and I'd had to ask them if they would sell to the US, and if I'd refused to send the 3 euros then they probably would have decided American sales were too much trouble and gone back to only selling within their country.

In that instance I decided I would rather continue to have a source of rare merchandise than be "in the right".  But I realize that sort of thing differs by situation.  It would have been a different story if they'd been selling nothing but crappy condition Cotton Candys.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on October 31, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
It's not really about being in the right. It's to prevent this sort of thing.

I feel like every seller has learned the hard way they need to list the correct price as they make the listing.

Non-ebay sure I'd work with someone out of eBay if they goofed.
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: Taffeta on November 01, 2018, 03:59:18 PM

I could have refused, and I would have been in the right. But this seller had HTF country-specific merchandise, they originally only sold within their own country and I'd had to ask them if they would sell to the US, and if I'd refused to send the 3 euros then they probably would have decided American sales were too much trouble and gone back to only selling within their country.

This situation has happened to me before as well. Sadly when you are operating in a circumstance where you are dealing with an own-country only seller, you often have to make decisions like this in the bigger interests of getting the item you are after. I've had many experiences with sellers who refuse to sell abroad because of one or two incidents with buyers somewhere in Europe which for some reason means every other person in the whole continent is troublesome...there are occasions where delicate negotiation is necessary if it's a really important item. And that can mean being willing to stump up extra on shipping. I don't agree with sellers who cheat on shipping cost and I don't agree with sellers who make it harder or more expensive for foreign buyers because they assume that either they are entitled to be compensated additionally for taking it to a PO or that we are all scammers and thus need to have everything sent with the maximum insurance, not just tracking....but if the item is worth the hassle and I can't get it anywhere else, sometimes I will bite the bullet. I usually contact the seller, though, and ask them, making it clear I am well aware of potential shipping costs. So it's not usually the case where a seller adds on after the auction, but gives me the eyewatering priority quote during it...

I also had one auction where I contacted the seller, told them outright that I expected it to cost a high amount to ship to me in the UK and that I was ready to pay that amount,and that worked. The usual excuse people use not to ship abroad is that buyers complain about shipping costs, and sometimes that is true and can be got around by stating clearly from the start that you are prepared to deal with international shipping costs. I had one lovely seller who had never sold outside of the US but between us we worked out how she could do it and I sent her the shipping money and it worked out a little less but I told her to keep the extra for all the work she had put in to get this pony to me, even though she had no idea how to ship abroad before I spoke to her. It was a MOC item and it arrived in beautiful condition so I don't regret that I maybe paid $6 more on shipping than the actual cost. To me that was worth it.

But to the same degree it can also be an opportunity for sellers to try to exploit foreign buyers by adding on cost because they assume the 'foreigner' doesn't understand the currency/postage system and can make up things to explain the extra charge. And I am absolutely not okay with those people.

In this instance I feel the seller's behaviour was shady and that as a rule of thumb it's not a good idea to pay more than the quoted price. I have argued it out with sellers in the past too because as a seller if I misquote on shipping, it's my problem, not my buyer's problem - but not every seller has that perspective and in my opinion this seller is actively committing fraud by charging extra that is not merited outside of auction.

Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: banditpony on November 01, 2018, 04:20:23 PM
I feel like there is a balance of letting the seller know the rules and not really being argumentive, difficult or things like that. I've been at this rodeo for too long. I'm very well aware of my rights as a buyer and seller.

That's kinda why my advice echos eBays response :/ we are users of a service and agreed to their TOS rules.

But I think you handle things right Taffeta, asking in advance is always a good way to go. ...
Title: Re: Beware of deanmon23 (Ebay seller)
Post by: LadyMoondancer on November 01, 2018, 08:33:16 PM
Yeah, if a seller is routinely and knowingly trying to sneak extra money under the radar to avoid eBay's fees (which sort of sounded like the case with one of the sellers mentioned on the previous page) or being sneaky in general, then that's a case where I think it's important to stand firm and maybe report to eBay.

But if a seller is doing me the favor (sending an item to the US when they normally don't) then I am fine doing them a favor (sending them a couple euros to ensure they don't lose money on shipping). The seller has rights too, like "I've decided to never send items out of my country".  If they are giving me a little ground, I can give them a little ground.