The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Thunderwing on December 10, 2014, 04:13:10 PM
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Final Update: see page eight.
Update for claim: see page seven (or so) for my most recent post.
Update! Or, rather, slight change in topic.
I think Stormy has a great idea, posted on page two. And I think that is the best way to handle this situation: I am going to offer HoustonCollector a fifty percent refund, to be sent immediately (or at least once I hear back from him). That would be $25, since the original purchase price of the missing MOC was $50. And then once the insurance claim has gone through refund the other half, another $25. For a total refund of the full purchase price, but in two installments.
As Stormy said, neither myself or Houston was at fault, so why should one of us suffer more than the other. I am not comfortable giving a full refund up front, because there is no guarantee that the insurance claim will go through. Since it is an international claim, it is going to take both of us putting in a measure of effort (most on my part) to get the insurance to pay out. So if I refund up front and then can't get the right help from Houston, I am out of pocket completely.
I am not willing/able to refund any of the postage, it all went into postage costs. (Houston paid $35 for shipping, actual cost was $36.44).
So sound off again please! Does this sound fair and reasonable to all of you? Is this how you would deal with this situation?
Mods: I would like to keep this thread separate from my other one please. The other is about the problem, this one is about the person involved. Thanks.
*edit* to add link. I am also locking that thread so there is no confusion and the discussion can continue here. PL
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,363319.0.html
So HoustonCollector72 was the person who bought the three MOC ponies from me. When they arrived, Houston contacted me to say that one was missing and the other two were damaged due to poor packaging. Houston sent me pictures, and I realized that the parcel had been very tampered with, and the missing MOC was stolen. We were able to compare photos and it turns out the other two were not damaged in transit, the marks/damage were already on them when they were sold (as shown in the photos and descriptions I put up).
Now here is the problem I am having.
Houston has been helpful in one sense, and sent me all the photos I requested. Which is great. But it ends there. Houston has been VERY pushy about getting a refund. No patience, their messages are hard to understand sometimes, and they openly accused me of lying about how I packaged the ponies (very securely and in a different box/materials than what they received), no offer of 'let me know what I can do to help', and so on.
I've been working diligently this past week to do what I need to do, to file a claim. I have spoken to no less than five postal workers, in different offices and communities. I am friends with our local postal worker, but usually ship out of the city because they offer tracking. So I spoke to my friend, as well as going back to the post depo that I shipped out of, and they remembered me shipping the package I did that day. My packages are very distinctive. I showed them the photos of the parcel that Houston received, and they all agree that something is VERY strange about this situation. (For the full story, see my other thread).
The general consensus among the postal workers is "No postal worker is going to risk their job and their pension for a toy." Which I am inclined to believe. Every postal worker works with a camera over their shoulder and knows it. Why risk a great job for something as cheap as a pony toy?
Which brings me to my problem. I hate to accuse anyone of wrongdoing or dishonesty. But something about this situation is very strange. * edit* Things here are just not adding up.
Why did Houston go right into an accusation of lying when I told him that the parcel was tampered with, instead of the outrage and shock I was feeling? Why so pushy about a refund? Why threaten a paypal claim in the third message to me, when we had barely realized what happened? Why was it that the only pristine on card pony was the one stolen (ie: the most valuable), and the two with squashed bubbles were left? If you are a postal worker and going to steal from a parcel, why go to the trouble of repackaging it? (It bears repeating here, that postal workers who repackage damaged parcels MUST follow a procedure, that involves placing all of the original box, even if pulverized, all original packing materials, and all damaged items into a sealed bag and then delivering it that way. They do NOT repackage them into different boxes.)
To top it all off, tonight, HoustonCollector72 opened a paypal claim against me. It has been only three weeks and two days since payment was made, so well within the time frame to file a paypal claim. Why leap into it without giving me time enough to try and figure out what is going on? I've been around a long time, and I haven't had to deal with something like this before, but it still seems like jumping the gun? She paid $50 each for three ponies, plus shipping. I ended up paying extra for additional shipping, it was higher than I quoted, my bad. She has requested a refund of $62.
I try to look at it the other way around... if I bought something from a long time forum member, and things went this awry, I would be at my post office demanding to know what happened to my parcel. Not waiting for the sender to do all the work, seeming indifferent about the answer, and demanding a refund.
It just doesn't add up. Little help? Does this situation sound odd to you?
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So this is the same case as that styrofoam box (or whatever) being opened and one MOC missing?
I'm kind of shocked to hear anything negative about him, I know he's very active here and we follow each other on Instagram. Although I've never dealt with him he's someone I would trust to deal with.
I think the circumstance itself seemed fishy (not on either of your parts). BS a worker wouldn't 'risk their job to steal a toy.' People steal stupid little stuff all the time and risk arrest! I work somewhere where there are a ton of cameras. But what people on the outside and some insiders don't know is most of them don't work.
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Yep. I am just putting this out there, to see if anyone PM's me. Houston has stellar feedback - but that doesn't mean something negative didn't happen, it just means it wasn't put out in the public eye.
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I hate to accuse anyone of wrongdoing or dishonesty. But something about this situation is very OFF. I'm getting alarm bells. *edit* Things here are just not adding up.
I had read the other thread with great interest. I have to say that I understand your buyer's frustration. Of course he wants a partial refund; part of his order was missing. It doesn't sound odd to me that he's pushing for it. He provided the photos you requested and has been waiting for three weeks. It seems like you're trying to "shame" him with this thread. Perhaps this would be a good time to have a mod try to work with you via PM or e-mail.
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I had read the other thread with great interest. I have to say that I understand your buyer's frustration. Of course he wants a partial refund; part of his order was missing. It doesn't sound odd to me that he's pushing for it. He provided the photos you requested and has been waiting for three weeks. It seems like you're trying to "shame" him with this thread. Perhaps this would be a good time to have a mod try to work with you via PM or e-mail.
Well, yes, I do agree that a buyer would want a refund if a pony was missing. And I never disagreed with Houston for expecting one - but demanding repeatedly when I am sending updates? It has only been 9 days since contacting me. Seems like a long time, but I have done several things since then. I am not trying to shame anyone. I am trying to find out if anyone else has had any problems with a buyer I am having problems with, who were perhaps too gentle/shy/etc to leave feedback.
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I Understand your Mistrust and Here is My side of the story :
In few days it will be a month that I paid for the 3 Moc G2s and this is my first time dealing with something missing in an order
I just want the 3rd portion of what I paid you for 3 items , 185/3 = 61.67 rounded to 62, I paid 35 for shipping for 3 items not just 2
I guess you think that I'm lying and researching for my background .no problem there,I have nothing to hide, very picky collector here and no patience I guess ,if I was the patient kind I would be waiting for a better deal on the ponies that I bought from you .
when I first told you about this ,there was no concern for this situation, you stated you would go into the postal office until your day off which was until 2 days later( to me that shows no concern of urgency on the problem at hand ).
I guess the fact that your story about packing the items did not match with what I received made me also assume you were lying to me or did not have control of your outgoing packages neither their contents, or that you had package them into the wrong box, since you stated your shipping day was a busy one with many more packages being sent out at the same time.
All I can do to protect myself is open a case with Paypal,it is not yet a claim but in another week it will be escalated to a Claim
I sent you a message before doing it. seems like you decided to post here instead of communicating with me and that is ok.
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Search only gives me this:
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,311612.0.html
I think this is an unusual situation in which patience and cooperation with both the postal systems and all parties concerned is best. :( It's horrifying to think about MOC ponies being destroyed and stolen in the postal system but those are options you will likely never be able to explore. I hope your refund from Canada Post is expediated!
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Post Merge: December 10, 2014, 06:24:22 PM
Search only gives me this:
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,311612.0.html
I think this is an unusual situation in which patience and cooperation with both the postal systems and all parties concerned is best. :( It's horrifying to think about MOC ponies being destroyed and stolen in the postal system but those are options you will likely never be able to explore. I hope your refund from Canada Post is expediated!
-_- that was a transaction on ebay ,not here on the Arena :mad:
pony smelled really bad ,smokers pony, seller just happened to be a member here , was a new collector then so seller got lucky ,today I would have sent her pony back :( I Had to open her and wash her >_< ,MOC FS AJ back in 2012 paid 125 dllrs for her
what would you do if it happened to you ??!!!!
Post Merge: December 10, 2014, 06:55:34 PM
Which brings me to my problem. I hate to accuse anyone of wrongdoing or dishonesty. But something about this situation is very strange. * edit* Things here are just not adding up.
Why did Houston go right into an accusation of lying when I told him that the parcel was tampered with, instead of the outrage and shock I was feeling? Why so pushy about a refund? Why threaten a paypal claim in the third message to me, when we had barely realized what happened? Why was it that the only pristine on card pony was the one stolen (ie: the most valuable), and the two with squashed bubbles were left? If you are a postal worker and going to steal from a parcel, why go to the trouble of repackaging it? (It bears repeating here, that postal workers who repackage damaged parcels MUST follow a procedure, that involves placing all of the original box, even if pulverized, all original packing materials, and all damaged items into a sealed bag and then delivering it that way. They do NOT repackage them into different boxes.)
[/quote] Guess I was right to open my case, you are blatantly accusing me of repackaging a parcel and make one item missing to steal 62 dllrs from you .
I love to brag on here and if you are good at math you can see here ,62 dllrs is not a problem to be spent but I'm not going to give them away either .
Here you can find all my collection additions since Dec 2013 ,I buy ponies I do not steal them ! -_-
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,345936.0.html
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Thunderwing and or HoustonCollector I would like to see the PM's that were exchanged between the two of you. Also if there are any other issues a Mod should be contacted first, not a member. When things like that start happening it only causes upset and more confusion to the situation.
I know this is a stressful for both parties so let's try and work through this and get it sorted. ;)
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Chiming in here, I can say that it is indeed possible for the post office to tamper with your mail. Back in October I had two pieces of mail tampered with - both pony related items. We had a very new mail delivery carrier, replacing the one we had for years that I was friends with. 1 was a Trixie badge I had commissioned, the other was from SHOUT! Factory of the My Little Pony DVD. Both packages made it to my mailbox - but was completely ripped open and contents missing.
I called the Post Office and got them to open an investigation. They later found out that it was the new mail lady that was stealing stuff out of people's packages. Not a smart cookie. Items were replaced thankfully, and our original mail carrier was put back on our route again.
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Thunderwing and or HoustonCollector I would like to see the PM's that were exchanged between the two of you. Also if there are any other issues a Mod should be contacted first, not a member. When things like that start happening it only causes upset and more confusion to the situation.
I know this is a stressful for both parties so let's try and work through this and get it sorted. ;)
This :nod: it's getting heated in this thread and it might not even be anyone's fault (other than someone at the PO) :awake: I've known many cases where PO workers have been stealing items - its been in the newspapers/news a lot here in the UK and some have got away with doing it for some time before getting caught, but its very serious when they do get caught.
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I'll just chime in here and say I've sold to HoustonCollector72 more than once without any problems at all (MOC/MIB G2's and G3's). Paid fast, good communication, left feedback quickly. Based on my experiences, I'd be absolutely shocked if he had done anything wrong in this case. It sounds like a PO or customs problem to me.
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I think it's important in these kind of situations to try to consider things from the other person's perspective. It's especially important to consider that we've had several rather bad situations lately with sellers who have scammed a lot of people, so I think a lot of buyers are on edge at the moment. That's not at all accusing you of being a scammer -- to me, it definitely sounds like an issue with the postal service, which can definitely happen. I think the worst thing in this case is to let emotions get out of control and start blaming each other with no proof.
As a side note, I've dealt with HoustonCollector72 in the past (I sold quite a few MOC G2's a bit ago and he bought a significant portion of them), and he's been nothing but pleasant and courteous to work with. To me, it just sounds like two people with very positive feedback in an uncomfortable situation due to shipping issues. :(
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I had some dealings with him and would never trade with him again. It turned rather ugly, he basically tried to extort a refund, without returning the item.
EDIT: I see that whole fiasco has been posted. I think it speaks for itsself. Good luck,
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If it was done at the post office, I'll bet it was because the box was damaged and they somehow missed the third pony when they repackaged it.
Stealing at the post office could / does happen, sure, but it IS a big risk. PO jobs are long-term jobs with a pension, like those postal workers said--so that would be a lot to lose if you were caught. And most people aren't going to know that a MOC MLP is valuable, or where to sell it. (I guess you could watch eBay just in case, though, especially if it's a rare MOC.)
I hope everything gets sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.
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I had some dealings with him and would never trade with him again. It turned rather ugly, he basically tried to extort a refund, without returning the item.
EDIT: I see that whole fiasco has been posted. I think it speaks for itsself. Good luck,
We never traded here, it was an ebay transaction and I did not know that you were a member here
so we never had any deals here in the Arena and never will .
The nerve of still denying your FAULT,...........some people ,I tell you ... :)
and by the count on your transactions I guess not many people do ......for a obvious reasons .
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Just a warning - the Mods are watching this.
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I'm not going to justify a reponse to that. I was replying to the op's question, that is it.
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I'm not going to justify a reponse to that. I was replying to the op's question, that is it.
Just keep it to yourself since it does not belong to the Arena
it was not an Arena transaction at all
remember that you tried to leave a negative feedback here and it was removed by mods ???
so refrain from referring to it as it was something within the Arena . it was an ebay transaction and it was settled there .
Do not bring old dramas that do not belong here .
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I'm not going to justify a reponse to that. I was replying to the op's question, that is it.
Just keep it to yourself since it does not belong to the Arena
it was not an Arena transaction at all
remember that you tried to leave a negative feedback here and it was removed by mods ???
so refrain from referring to it as it was something within the Arena . it was an ebay transaction and it was settled there .
Do not bring old dramas that do not belong here .
Wong-- it does belong here. People ask for adivce on ebay, etsy all the time. go look at the header on the forum wher eit reads "Help with your Trades, Sales, and Auctions, including ebay" And you were the one that started that thread in the first place. The op was asking if anyone had problems with you. I did, and I stated that. You're the one that's dragging it out.
This is my last response on this matter.
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I'm not going to justify a reponse to that. I was replying to the op's question, that is it.
Just keep it to yourself since it does not belong to the Arena
it was not an Arena transaction at all
remember that you tried to leave a negative feedback here and it was removed by mods ???
so refrain from referring to it as it was something within the Arena . it was an ebay transaction and it was settled there .
Do not bring old dramas that do not belong here .
Wong-- it does belong here. People ask for adivce on ebay, etsy all the time. And you were the one that started that thread in the first place. The op was asking if anyone had problems with you. I did, and I stated that. You're the one that's dragging it out.
This is my last response on this matter.
hope so
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I am putting a warning out now. If you have an issue closetavalanche then you need to contact a Mod. Loa already put a warning up and it was clearly ignored.
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Thanks Ponylady !!
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I am putting a warning out now. If you have an issue closetavalanche then you need to contact a Mod. Loa already put a warning up and it was clearly ignored.
I don't have an issue at all, i was just letting the op know that i had a problem with her trader, that is it. Since I've done that and that thread has been made availible, I won't post here again.
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I am surprised to here this, Houston has always been awesome to deal with, he is one of the very few people that pays on time. I have only had very positive experiences with him and without a doubt i would deal with him again. It sounds like a po issue and to be fair I think he is right in asking for a refund, I would to if I didn't have a pony in hand and its not fair that he has to wait along time for this refund. $50 is a lot of money
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Answering the original question for this post: I had a positive experience with HoustonCollector72. He preordered a bunch of HT AJs and Big Macs, and my husband bought me one for our anniversary. He was courteous and communicative, and my item arrived in great condition.
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I want to apologize in advance for deviating from the topic question but I wanted to comment on the situation. First, I would encourage both of you to have a little more patience with one another. These situations are enjoyable for no one. I am also sorry that both of you are experiencing it.
Thunder, your speculations about what a postal worker would or would not do are very logical. But we all know that postal employees actions generally lack logic. They particularly have little to no sense when it comes to collectibles and value. Their attitudes generally are "this person should have bought insurance, so too bad." Therefore while it is illogical, it is very likely that someone could have thrown one of them away assuming the damage poor and the value to be too little for concern. Yes, it is odd for the package to have been repacked and delivered with no notice, but there are lots of temporary postal workers hired on for this season and the care and attention to your mail goes out the window.
Houston - Yes, you have thus far had nothing but positive feedback and it is unlikely that you would tarnish your reputation over $50. However, you need to also have a little understanding for how it might look. This community has seen countless members build and maintain flawless reputations for years only to ruin them in one fell swoop. Your best course of action is to stay calm.
As for a solution, having been in this situation before, I personally think that the right thing to do would be to either offer store credit for the full amount of the missing item, or split the loss evenly. It was neither of your faults, so why should one of you suffer more than the other?
I understand this was an eBay transaction, but you are both members of the same community and it is here now. Neither of you has stopped communication with one another, so there is no need to run off making accusations in either direction. Lastly, I personally do not believe in every facet of eBay ' s so-called protection, and I would feel awful if it was used on me.
I wish you both the best of luck and I hope that you can remain on good terms after this.
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*Shudders* Reading all of this makes me want to throw up. And I thought my MOC seling/shipping/buying problems were bad. Never, never dealing in them again no matter how good a lot seems...
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Bumping up for update and more advice needed, thanks!
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Thanks everyone for the positive reviews :)
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Not paying Half for something I did not receive.
and that cooler box was the problem and the reason the package was re boxed and therefore cause the loss of the Moc .
I also believe that the cooler box was so heavy and the shipping got inflated because of it .
Sorry but seller made a mistake ,but seller is insured ,so not taking half .
edited~please keep personal remarks to yourself. This will be the last warning between the two of you (CA and yourself). PL
Sorry just ridiculous she is still posting on here when she said she would not post anymore on this thread
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The styrofoam box was NOT the issue. I have asked at multiple post offices - they like the styrofoam boxes because they are lighter than cardboard (which saved you on the cost of shipping), stronger than cardboard, and are waterproof as well. If something had happened, it would have had to be quite severe to break the styrofoam box. In which case, the items inside would have been damaged (which they were not). The labels were also not torn/missing. In addition - and I want this to be very clear to everyone - If a parcel is damaged, ALL of the contents, the original shipping materials (peanuts/wrappings) and whatever is left of the box - even if it is smashed into tiny pieces - are all bagged and sent on to the recipient, all bagged in a heavy duty plastic bag, taped shut with official colored tape, and a letter of apology from the post office. I have confirmed this with multiple post offices, and it works the same in both countries! This is NOT a case of the post office 'repackaging' something.
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Personally if I was the seller I would refund the whole cost of the moc straight away. I would most properly give a partial on postage depending on the cost. As a seller its for you to deal with the insurance through the post office I personally do think its fair for the buyer to have to wait. Its just one of the risks if selling. Thats just my opinion
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If they were never repackaged then you sent them in this original card box and left them out
they still might be somewhere in your place . as I remember you had listed some other ponies for sale that at the end you were not able to find ,then you found them but just their card ,(remember butterfly hunter ) but they had been sold loose .
and as you mentioned before it was a busy multiple packages being mailed by you that day .
so pointing the finger at me about repackaging them and stealing them is just your best explanation to your lack of responsibility as a seller :(
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Sorry just ridiculous she is still posting on here when she said she would not post anymore on this thread
Closetavalanche I removed your post and edited Houston's. It is my last warning between the two of you. It's nonsense at this point. It is also going to be my last warning period on this. Thunderwing is doing what she can to remedy the issue, no need to make accusations that may or not be correct.
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I'm starting to believe the twins moc were sold loose as well and were gone and this whole thing is being made up by you :(
is so easy to suspect the worst ,right ?
Post Merge: December 15, 2014, 07:40:03 PM
Sorry just ridiculous she is still posting on here when she said she would not post anymore on this thread
Closetavalanche I removed your post and edited Houston's. It is my last warning between the two of you. It's nonsense at this point. It is also going to be my last warning period on this. Thunderwing is doing what she can to remedy the issue, no need to make accusations that may or not be correct.
Thanks Pony Lady , as I'm being accused as well here over and over by this seller of stealing ponies ,then fine with me to have it locked for good .
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Are you accusing her of stealing or scamming? I want to be clear on this?
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Are you accusing her of stealing or scamming? I want to be clear on this?
Yes, she offered me a half refund 25 dllrs otherwise she will fight it on paypal end
so I declined that offer and told me she will fight it on Paypal ,and then she comes here and accuses me of stealing, since she thinks the repacking was done by me and not the Postal workers ,Guess is now for paypal to decide .
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To be honest, I'd be upset if a seller sent me a box that stood out like that because I'd feel it was probably targeted for some reason, and I'd want some of the shipping cost back. I understand your reasoning for shipping in that box though, considering you've said it's sturdy and all of that. It just feels safer to me to blend in and package well within a normal package that looks like everyone else's. Which still isn't your fault Thunder Wing, just voicing how I'd feel if I was the buyer in this case. It seems less likely if it was like every other package. It's hard to say what's right. Sucky situation all around. And now it's turning very ugly with a lot of finger pointing. Sorry for both of you.
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Sorry just ridiculous she is still posting on here when she said she would not post anymore on this thread
Closetavalanche I removed your post and edited Houston's. It is my last warning between the two of you. It's nonsense at this point. It is also going to be my last warning period on this. Thunderwing is doing what she can to remedy the issue, no need to make accusations that may or not be correct.
wait, what?? Warning for what? I was responding to the OP, and the question she asked about the solution. i never ever reference Houston at all.
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Sorry just ridiculous she is still posting on here when she said she would not post anymore on this thread
Closetavalanche I removed your post and edited Houston's. It is my last warning between the two of you. It's nonsense at this point. It is also going to be my last warning period on this. Thunderwing is doing what she can to remedy the issue, no need to make accusations that may or not be correct.
wait, what?? Warning for what? I was responding to the OP, and the question she asked about the solution. i never ever reference Houston at all.
*edit* enough PL
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Sounds like it's time to just let eBay or PayPal sort it out between the two of you. That's what you pay their fees for after all. I hope you can get it sorted out.
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Houstoncollector72, I don't think you understood what she was saying: she will give you HALF now, and the OTHER HALF when she gets the money from the insurance.
You will get $50 back, just two payments of $25. I think you might be letting the previous issue take over your thinking, and jumping to conclusions without reading the whole post...
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After looking at the Styrofoam box and repacked box and reading Thunders account on how she packed everything from the first topic on this, this seems less like a case of theft and more like an idiot holiday postal worker's rushed mistake. If Thunder did pack the first MOC in a bottom layer with white packing peanuts and a white foam sheet as pictured, it is very likely the postal employee who repacked it mistook the layer between the ponies as the bottom of the package and simply threw them away.
Again, patience here on both of your ends is key.
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I would like to speak to possible issues regarding the use of Styrofoam boxes in shipping. I have received many shipments from US and Canadian suppliers packed in Styrofoam boxes/cooler (every live sea critter, any enzymes or other items needing to be shipped on dry ice or otherwise kept cool and live strains of bacteria) some shipped inside cardboard boxes and some with just a shipping label on the Styrofoam box. I have never had a shipment rejected or arrive tampered with in three years of receiving packages packed this way so I can hardly suspect that the tampering would be to do with the use of a Styrofoam box to ship.
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I think $25 now and $25 when the postal claim clears is fair. I don't think it's either of your faults and neither should be punished.
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I think $25 now and $25 when the postal claim clears is fair. I don't think it's either of your faults and neither should be punished.
Agreed. :) I've received things shipped in Styrofoam boxes as well and those things are practically unbreakable. It sounds like it's the PO's fault somehow, not Thunderwing's, so she shouldn't bear the brunt of the punishment. This way, neither one of you bears more than the other, it just takes a bit longer to reach the same conclusion.
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I think $25 now and $25 when the postal claim clears is fair. I don't think it's either of your faults and neither should be punished.
Agreed. :) I've received things shipped in Styrofoam boxes as well and those things are practically unbreakable. It sounds like it's the PO's fault somehow, not Thunderwing's, so she shouldn't bear the brunt of the punishment. This way, neither one of you bears more than the other, it just takes a bit longer to reach the same conclusion.
Yup, I think this is fair as well.
It takes time. That's how postal insurance works. You have to file claims and go through a crazy process to get your money back. So that's what thunderwing is doing. A little patience and understanding goes a long way and it seems like thunderwing has done nothing wrong and is going through the proper steps to file to get that money back.
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I do not agree , I did not pay in installments
I paid at once 185 dllrs for the 3 items
I only got 2 and being suspected/accused of theft of the missing item
gives me no confidence on this deal she is presenting
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Boy this thread is full of hot tempers, accusations, and so on! I wish I could send deep breaths and calming thoughts toward everyone involved. *hugs*
No one is saying you are a thief, houstoncollector. Just that you need to be willing to compromise a little; the seller is out money and ponies too.
I'm trying to be delicate here, and not make things worse, but you seem to be saying the same things about the seller, and she's being very patient still trying to work things out with you.
You are BOTH long term members here, both with 100+ Positive feedback.
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Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
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Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Yep ,she does work on it on low priority and lack of concern, when i first contacted her about this, her response was .I will get to the post office on my day off to inquire about the missing item
her day off was 2 days later
again no confidence on this seller
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 09:37:22 AM
Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Because I do not trust this seller anymore ,easy as that
closing my claim on paypal will end any claim for the rest of the money, I will pretty much never see the money again ,and it is my money I decide not the members of the Arena
or are you all going to pay me if she doesn't ???
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Are you being deliberately hard to work with? Her day off was 2 days away--even I, a stay-at-home mom, can't make it to the post office on a whim. You need to relax a bit, because you're really ruining your rep on the Arena, no one is going to want to work with you after your attitude towards this.
You're still getting your money back. I honestly wonder why you're being so obstinate.
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Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Yep ,she does work on it on low priority and lack of concern, when i first contacted her about this, her response was .I will get to the post office on my day off to inquire about the missing item
her day off was 2 days later
again no confidence on this seller
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 09:37:22 AM
Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Because I do not trust this seller anymore ,easy as that
closing my claim on paypal will end any claim for the rest of the money, I will pretty much never see the money again ,and it is my money I decide not the members of the Arena
or are you all going to pay me if she doesn't ???
I personally have worked with Thunderwing and can vouch for her as an upstanding member of the community. If she wasn't, she wouldn't have started this thread trying to resolve the situation. She very well could have said you two could fight it out over paypal, but rather she sought help here in trying to rectify the situation to the best of her ability.
I understand the payment doesn't sound like a wonderful option to you, but she too, is going to be out money and I think waiting for the claim to clear will be in the best interest of both. It does seem like something went wrong in transit and to accuse Thunderwing over and over doesn't seem very fair.
As to the delay in getting back with you - I am fairly sure it's not because she didn't want to rectify it and get things sorted. If it were me, I would be taking time to try and figure out the best way to fix it, and think it through. And to be honest, we all do have an outside life as well, and it is the holidays. A little grace might go a long way here.
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Are you being deliberately hard to work with? Her day off was 2 days away--even I, a stay-at-home mom, can't make it to the post office on a whim. You need to relax a bit, because you're really ruining your rep on the Arena, no one is going to want to work with you after your attitude towards this.
You're still getting your money back. I honestly wonder why you're being so obstinate.
My attitude ?? I'm enraged about being accused of theft and being denied my refund
I do not take this calmly ,sorry ,a phone call to the post office is not going to take you away from the kids and your home.
I have no doubt your intentions are well but threatening me with no one wanting to work with me does not speak well of the community either , Am I suppose to take her promise as a money to the bank ?? I do not think so , I pay fast and I work well with RESPONSIBLE sellers , I do not take well her accusations and lack of concern, I have worked with many sellers over here and they have always been flawless.
put yourself in my place before you start making threats and judgments here
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I'm going to be blunt here, since trying to be nice about it doesn't seem to be working.
Houstoncollector, after reading this thread, I have no interest in making any kind of trade or sale with you, ever. You are being very accusing in your comments, to the point where I would not sell anything to you for fear of being accused of the same things. You say openly that you don't trust the seller, accuse her of theft, accuse her of fraud, of scamming you, but the least hint that you might be making her worry the same things, and you get VERY upset!
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Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Yep ,she does work on it on low priority and lack of concern, when i first contacted her about this, her response was .I will get to the post office on my day off to inquire about the missing item
her day off was 2 days later
again no confidence on this seller
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 09:37:22 AM
Why does being paid in installments matter? You still get the same amount of money back.
And, you're accusing Thunderwing of theft too. Do you think that leaves her with a feeling of confidence? She's doing everything she can the correct way. Just as you're not willing to trash your rep for $50, neither is she. That's why she's working on it.
Because I do not trust this seller anymore ,easy as that
closing my claim on paypal will end any claim for the rest of the money, I will pretty much never see the money again ,and it is my money I decide not the members of the Arena
or are you all going to pay me if she doesn't ???
I personally have worked with Thunderwing and can vouch for her as an upstanding member of the community. If she wasn't, she wouldn't have started this thread trying to resolve the situation. She very well could have said you two could fight it out over paypal, but rather she sought help here in trying to rectify the situation to the best of her ability.
I understand the payment doesn't sound like a wonderful option to you, but she too, is going to be out money and I think waiting for the claim to clear will be in the best interest of both. It does seem like something went wrong in transit and to accuse Thunderwing over and over doesn't seem very fair.
As to the delay in getting back with you - I am fairly sure it's not because she didn't want to rectify it and get things sorted. If it were me, I would be taking time to try and figure out the best way to fix it, and think it through. And to be honest, we all do have an outside life as well, and it is the holidays. A little grace might go a long way here.
This thread was created by her to fish for evidence against me ,not to work things with me
accusing me with thread over and over do not sit well , on her privates messages she even tells me she has not found any bad report of me -_-
and then goes on saying the same thing she has posted here, that the PO will never do such a thing as to repackaged a pony,and what does that tell you ? ,to me :She is telling me to my face that I did it !!! that i repackaged her box to steal a pony and get money from her and therefore no refund will be given
how would you take that if you were the buyer ?
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:27:47 AM
I'm going to be blunt here, since trying to be nice about it doesn't seem to be working.
Houstoncollector, after reading this thread, I have no interest in making any kind of trade or sale with you, ever. You are being very accusing in your comments, to the point where I would not sell anything to you for fear of being accused of the same things. You say openly that you don't trust the seller, accuse her of theft, accuse her of fraud, of scamming you, but the least hint that you might be making her worry the same things, and you get VERY upset!
She initiated this thread as "witch hunt" and accusations ,not me
I'm defending myself of her accusations
If you agree with her way of dealing with this situation I for sure would not want to have any dealings with anyone who agrees with her
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What a shame!
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What a shame!
I agree ,this is how the community will treat you for speaking up against a situation or a seller who did not deliver what was paid.
but guess this is why she started this thread to push her agenda : Shame and Threat the buyer to shut him up
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What a shame!
I agree ,this is how the community will treat you for speaking up against a situation or a seller who did not deliver what was paid.
but guess this is why she started this thread to push her agenda : Shame and Threat the buyer to shut him up
Houston, don't drag the community into one big collective here. Good sellers make good buyers just as good buyers make good sellers. It takes two to tango. Also, the qualifications for being a "good buyer" in my opinion, are not simply limited to whether or not they paid immediately and got back to me in a timely manner.
Thunderwing's concerns were not out of line, just as your desires to be immediately refunded and frustrations over being accused were not unreasonable at first.
Thunder more than likely called the PO and was informed that the repacking was completely not normal and may have even been the ones to encourage her to question you since the postal system refuses to take responsibility for anything. So if you want to blame someone, you might start with the Postal employee she spoke with.
What is unreasonable, has been your attitude throughout. You are getting a refund, so why all the negativity?
And as for your reputations, Thunderwing has been a member since 2003. I doubt 11 years of buying, selling, and trading would be sacrificed for $50.
And yours has been good also.
It is clear that both of you have proven yourself to be good traders with reputability.
I just don't understand how you have been so miserable about all of this.
Thunderwing, refund him all his money and his shipping he feels he is owed, and PM me with a list of what you have for sale.
For goodness sake, I will gladly buy something from you for $62.
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I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.
Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.
The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.
Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.
Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.
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Around the holidays, many families face the reality of pinching pennies. People in general live like his day-to-day, and I wouldn't have a problem with accepting a refund for the total in two payments. I have made many purchases in payment installments and many of us here have as well. We did not have ebay buyer protection or Paypal to back us up, but this community is based on trust. Thunder is a very well-trusted member with a solid reputation. If you are given the option for the entire refund of the stolen pony, that's the best thing she can do.
This time of the year people do have their packages stolen more than usual. This comes down to the hiring of holiday workers. While many of them are average people like you and I, or possible already working for the company, they require it to keep up with the demands of the increased package volume.
However, holiday workers do not receive the years of training, experience, and dedication that the average parcel delivery worker receives. Becoming a delivery driver or a customs officer is something that people really honour having as a job, but there are always the bad seeds.
I am sure Thunder will also continue to persue the case to find out everything she can about what went down in between her shipment and your receipt. If you were to not receive the payment from her, there's no problem with you letting everyone know that. You would both have PayPal records to support whether the refund was sent or not. I do not see this happening, she has no problem paying you back for the pony and I would have faith in that. This is someone who you have the pleasure of knowing they're honest and willing to make their buyer happy.
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All three were definitely sent. That part I am sure of. I keep all my MOC G2 For Sale in one spot, all together. I went back, made sure it was not in that box, made sure it was not on the bed where I go through the box (The box containing the MOC G2 For Sale is in the closet of the spare bedroom), checked on the floor, under the bed, in the closet, and then checked the table where I actually packed the box. I checked in all these spots, twice. I then wanted to triple check and try something. So I went and got a styrofoam box, exactly like the one I shipped the ponies in. And I then repacked it in exactly the same way as the first one. Same ponies, same peanuts, same foam, same layers. And it ended up weighing 801 grams. If I take one set of twins out, it weighs 80 grams less. The parcel I sent to Houston weighs 804 grams (as shown on the postal/customs form stuck to the box). The 3 grams difference can be accounted for by the weight of the paper and tape used on the final box when it was shipped.
(And just so we are totally clear, the ponies I used to test the weight when I redid the package, were from my own collection. They were the same ponies (Elegant, Ladybug Twins, and Dancer Twins. But the dancer twins were in a different language card. I have been selling my doubles, which have accumulated over the years as I completed my own collection.)(The twins sold were Celeste and Lucerno, the ones I kept were ... Piprezetta and something. Sorry, they're not right here in front of me and I don't recall the exact spelling).
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I think $25 now and $25 when the postal claim clears is fair. I don't think it's either of your faults and neither should be punished.
Agreed. :) I've received things shipped in Styrofoam boxes as well and those things are practically unbreakable. It sounds like it's the PO's fault somehow, not Thunderwing's, so she shouldn't bear the brunt of the punishment. This way, neither one of you bears more than the other, it just takes a bit longer to reach the same conclusion.
Yup, I think this is fair as well.
It takes time. That's how postal insurance works. You have to file claims and go through a crazy process to get your money back. So that's what thunderwing is doing. A little patience and understanding goes a long way and it seems like thunderwing has done nothing wrong and is going through the proper steps to file to get that money back.
Agreed! *pony hugs to all*
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I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.
Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.
The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.
Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.
Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.
Closing my claim now and accepting just 25 and a promise to be paid later,will guarantee just the refund i receive now ,
does that " later " has a set date, or is it just floating in the future ?
they way she told me is that the "later" depends of the insurance claim outcome and that is not ok with me
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:12:39 PM
But I will take ponies if she does not have all the money
send me the refund of 25 and send the rest on ponies
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:21:43 PM
I have sent a PM to Thunderwing , I will accept a refund with ponies she has for sale.
waiting on her response
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Are you going to pay her for the shipping of these ponies?
And of course "later" is just floating out there. The "later" refers to whenever the PO gets around to settling the insurance claim. Thunder has NO control over that. She's provided them all the information either of you have, and there is nothing else to do but wait. That's the way it works for everyone.
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After all the mudslinging and the name calling and accusations on here, you STILL want more Ponies? What if THOSE get lost? Are you serious? Wait for the other $25 and be done with it.
Thunderwing, I will gladly forward you $25 to be done with this. Enough is enough.
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After all the mudslinging and the name calling and accusations on here, you STILL want more Ponies? What if THOSE get lost? Are you serious? Wait for the other $25 and be done with it.
Thunderwing, I will gladly forward you $25 to be done with this. Enough is enough.
And I'll go halfsies with you, good lord.
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After all the mudslinging and the name calling and accusations on here, you STILL want more Ponies? What if THOSE get lost? Are you serious? Wait for the other $25 and be done with it.
Thunderwing, I will gladly forward you $25 to be done with this. Enough is enough.
And I'll go halfsies with you, good lord.
I'll pitch in, too, criminey (I'm serious!) I can't stand this guys attitude!! Just miserable, childish and quite embarrassing to watch. No one should be put through this.
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After all the mudslinging and the name calling and accusations on here, you STILL want more Ponies? What if THOSE get lost? Are you serious? Wait for the other $25 and be done with it.
Thunderwing, I will gladly forward you $25 to be done with this. Enough is enough.
And I'll go halfsies with you, good lord.
I'll pitch in, too, criminey (I'm serious!) I can't stand this guys attitude!! Just miserable, childish and quite embarrassing to watch. No one should be put through this.
To all 3 of you ,Thanks for your opinions
and like I stated before , The attitude here goes both ways ! Calling me whatever you like does not make you any better here,and her agenda succeeds ,your opinions are an intent to make me feel bad for wanting my money back and speak up against another member that for whatever reason did not delivered the goods paid .
Thanks but no thanks, gang up on someone else you 3
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I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.
HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.
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I thought the OPs original post sounded accusatory (seems milder now than I remember though, maybe just in comparison to the accusations thrown now) and I would be outraged to see that speculated to the community about me too and I can see how one might accuse back. I think this manner of showcasing the problem would rub most anyone the wrong way. Although I understand the reasoning for it. Just putting my thoughts in on his behavior. Sucks to have the community talking about whether or not you're a scammer when you've done nothing wrong. It's important to remain civil though, Houston.
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Wow. Multiple people have stated (myself included) that shipping in a Styrofoam box has never been an issue with the post office before so there is no way Thunder can be held at fault here. Yet you are still unwilling to work with her on a refund pending the insurance claim? Do you really think she should have to eat the damage herself, when she is not at fault? True, you are not at fault either. That is why giving a 25$ refund now and a 25$ refund if insurance claim goes through is very fair. If she gave you 50$ now but the claim was denied then she would be out the 50$ through no fault of her own. If the claim doesn't go through and she refunds you half, then you have both born the damage equally. That is fair. It isn't fair if you accept 25$ and ponies because again, if the claim is denied then she is out the entire damage and you are out nothing.
Seriously, your reaction in this thread has been very poor. It seems you are very nice to deal with when things go well, but when there are problems you are less than civil. This is where a truly good trader shows their worth- when there are problems. Because of your lack of patience in this and Closet's transaction, I will avoid dealing with you in the future.
ETA: And seriously if we're passing around a collection plate to make this go away, let me know because I'll gladly chip in.
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My opinion is you should wait for the post office claim before issuing a refund.
What I see is bordering on harassment and extortion for a buying to try illicit money/items out of a seller if one or both parties are already going through the steps of starting a claim with the post office.
As a seller I would point this out to the post office/ in the claim if someone were insisting I had to send a refund or ponies for situation like this before the PO had made a ruling on it.
Because no matter who the buyer is, if the claim goes through in favor of buyer and seller, the buyer would in effect be getting paid double, both from the seller and the PO.
So honestly I do not think any action should be taken till the post office gives it's opinion/action on the situation.
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KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.
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KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.
This is from the PO's website:
Proof of Damage
Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.
If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.
If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?
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It's on the seller's end:
https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/tracking/inter_damaged.jsf?ssl=1
With USPS it can go either way - the seller or buyer can file a claim.
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KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.
This is from the PO's website:
Proof of Damage
Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.
If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.
If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?
Canadian Post Office or USPS? The claim is through the seller's (CanadaPost), right?
OH Canada :p
Either way, IF a case is opened wouldn't the buyer have to show evidence of the damage, no matter where it came from? The seller can't do that considering the item and packing is not in they're hands anymore.
I was just thinking that as soon as you get a damaged item you would report it directly to the PO, considering canada post wouldn't have brought it to the buyer if the buyer is in the USA.
Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 04:04:21 PM
It's on the seller's end:
https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/tracking/inter_damaged.jsf?ssl=1
With USPS it can go either way - the seller or buyer can file a claim.
Well, the reason I assumed it's on the buyers end is because, when I sell stuff a lot of times insurance can be extra, and sometimes buyers will request a certain amount of insurance on an item (though now with Priority mail it's included to a certain amount) - so generally the buyer is the one paying for the insurance, not really the seller - it's generally been an added thing to shipping that the buyer would request/payfor.
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KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.
This is from the PO's website:
Proof of Damage
Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.
If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.
If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?
Canadian Post Office or USPS? The claim is through the seller's (CanadaPost), right?
OH Canada :p
Either way, IF a case is opened wouldn't the buyer have to show evidence of the damage, no matter where it came from? The seller can't do that considering the item and packing is not in they're hands anymore.
I was just thinking that as soon as you get a damaged item you would report it directly to the PO, considering canada post wouldn't have brought it to the buyer if the buyer is in the USA.
I would think so - but not always! I've only completed one case for a Kitchen Aid mixer that the buyer claimed was damaged (no actual proof though - he said it smelled funny when he turned it on).
What I did for USPS was take a screenshot of the auction screen with the winning amount clearly posted, a screen shot of the buyer's email/eBay claim stating that it was broken upon arrival, and that was enough. I didn't get any photos from the buyer (because there was not physical damage anyway). The thing was so much money to ship (like $50+ via Priority from PA to CA) that I let him keep the thing to do as he wished with it. I refunded the buyer ASAP via the eBay claim and waited for USPS to settle the insurance claim. I could very well have been out what I spent on the mixer + shipping, but USPS approved my claim within the week. The buyer (if the mixer was broken) at least got some Kitchen Aid attachments/bowl for free and I ended up with the same profit that I had earned had the mixer not had been damaged.
Now, don't go reading into what I said about me refunding first! :lol: My story is just to show that, with USPS, you don't always have to have pictures of the damage. Having an email from the buyer claiming it was damaged was enough in my situation.
CanadaPost has their own process. I'm just sharing my story for others to keep in mind in case they ever run into a similar problem.
Karen, I re-read your reply. Because Thunderwing paid CanadaPost and used their insurance, even if the damage happened when the package was in USPS custody, the claim still has to be through CanadaPost.
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I did not request for insurance but I'm glad it was charged otherwise it would no coverage for this loss ,I still have the 2 items in their box just how i received them in case is needed as it was requested by Thunderwing.
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I did not request for insurance but I'm glad it was charged otherwise it would no insurance claim . I still have the 2 items in their box just how i received them in case is needed as it was requested by Thunderwing.
:) I'm glad the insurance was added too! I fell onto this thread today and have major feels for both of you!
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Wow. Multiple people have stated (myself included) that shipping in a Styrofoam box has never been an issue with the post office before so there is no way Thunder can be held at fault here. Yet you are still unwilling to work with her on a refund pending the insurance claim? Do you really think she should have to eat the damage herself, when she is not at fault? True, you are not at fault either. That is why giving a 25$ refund now and a 25$ refund if insurance claim goes through is very fair. If she gave you 50$ now but the claim was denied then she would be out the 50$ through no fault of her own. If the claim doesn't go through and she refunds you half, then you have both born the damage equally. That is fair. It isn't fair if you accept 25$ and ponies because again, if the claim is denied then she is out the entire damage and you are out nothing.
Seriously, your reaction in this thread has been very poor. It seems you are very nice to deal with when things go well, but when there are problems you are less than civil. This is where a truly good trader shows their worth- when there are problems. Because of your lack of patience in this and Closet's transaction, I will avoid dealing with you in the future.
ETA: And seriously if we're passing around a collection plate to make this go away, let me know because I'll gladly chip in.
Like I said before any judgemental opinion against me is received with a grain of salt thrown over my shoulder :)
If by attitudes we go, lets start with yours, judging me ,when you are not the one being accused and shamed on this thread
so hold your horses little lady and like I said before anyone that agrees with how this is being handled then by all means , the feeling is mutual keep your ponies and judgement to yourself .
Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM
I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.
HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.
I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral
Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
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If by attitudes we go, lets start with yours, judging me ,when you are not the one being accused and shamed on this thread
so hold your horses *edit* and like I said before anyone that agrees with how this is being handled then by all means , the feeling is mutual keep your ponies and judgement to yourself .
*edit*
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I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.
Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.
The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.
Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.
Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.
Closing my claim now and accepting just 25 and a promise to be paid later,will guarantee just the refund i receive now ,
does that " later " has a set date, or is it just floating in the future ?
they way she told me is that the "later" depends of the insurance claim outcome and that is not ok with me
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:12:39 PM
But I will take ponies if she does not have all the money
send me the refund of 25 and send the rest on ponies
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:21:43 PM
I have sent a PM to Thunderwing , I will accept a refund with ponies she has for sale.
waiting on her response
Part 1:
Almost 9pm EST and the claim is still active on my paypal account. The claim is for the full $185, so until the claim comes down, I can't do a partial refund on the purchase. Houston wants me to send him money first, and then he'll take it down? I should send the funds as a payment, if I understand what he said in PM. No. Claim comes down first, then $25 refund from the original payment he sent me, with another $25 pending once the insurance money comes back to me. If the claim does not come down, I will fight it.
For the record, too, the parcel was NOT fully insured. Houston did not request insurance. *I* insured the parcel for part of the full value, $30, $30, and $40 for the three ponies. Because it never ever occurred to me that the ponies would get stolen. I insured it at that level based on a guesstimate of what the ponies would be devalued by if they cards were damaged, since the ponies would still be worth something if decarded. Plus extra insurance beyond $100 is quite expensive, and I was already paying part of the shipping myself (I charged $35, actual was $36.44), PLUS I didn't want Houston to get nailed with heavy duty/tax/fees. SO even if the post office insurance comes back for $40, I still stand to be out of pocket. Which I accept, I chose to assume they wouldn't get stolen, and chose to not put full insurance on them, my choice, my responsibility, and I accept that part of it.
Part 2:
Yes, I do make the claim through Canada Post. My contract was with them. As I told the one postal clerk, who confirmed that it would be Canada Post who pays the insurance... "My contract was with Canada Post. I paid Canada Post to make sure it got there safely. I don't care if Canada Post chooses to hand parcels over to some guy dressed in pajamas and riding a donkey. Take it up with him yourself, that was your choice and does not affect my contract with you." The poor postal worker was trying so hard not to laugh when I said that I thought she might hurt herself. We know that the tampering happened AFTER the parcel crossed the border, because the USPS label was also tampered with. That just means that Canada Post will be investigating south of the border as well as north of. HOWEVER, because the damage happened in the USA, I WILL need Houston's help. I don't know if Canada Post is only going to want a statement, photographs, a notarized letter, to have the box dropped off at a depot there, or what. I haven't had to do this before.
(I have more things to type, need to copy a few things in first, bear with me...)
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I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.
Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.
The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.
Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.
Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.
Closing my claim now and accepting just 25 and a promise to be paid later,will guarantee just the refund i receive now ,
does that " later " has a set date, or is it just floating in the future ?
they way she told me is that the "later" depends of the insurance claim outcome and that is not ok with me
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:12:39 PM
But I will take ponies if she does not have all the money
send me the refund of 25 and send the rest on ponies
Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:21:43 PM
I have sent a PM to Thunderwing , I will accept a refund with ponies she has for sale.
waiting on her response
Almost 9pm EST and the claim is still active on my paypal account. The claim is for the full $185, so until the claim comes down, I can't do a partial refund on the purchase. Houston wants me to send him money first, and then he'll take it down? I should send the funds as a payment, if I understand what he said in PM. No. Claim comes down first, then $25 refund from the original payment he sent me, with another $25 pending once the insurance money comes back to me. If the claim does not come down, I will fight it.
For the record, too, the parcel was NOT fully insured. Houston did not request insurance. *I* insured the parcel for part of the full value, $30, $30, and $40 for the three ponies. Because it never ever occurred to me that the ponies would get stolen. I insured it at that level based on a guesstimate of what the ponies would be devalued by if they cards were damaged, since the ponies would still be worth something if decarded. Plus extra insurance beyond $100 is quite expensive, and I was already paying part of the shipping myself (I charged $35, actual was $36.44), PLUS I didn't want Houston to get nailed with heavy duty/tax/fees. SO even if the post office insurance comes back for $40, I still stand to be out of pocket. Which I accept, I chose to assume they wouldn't get stolen, and chose to not put full insurance on them, my choice, my responsibility, and I accept that part of it.
(I have more things to type, need to copy a few things in first, bear with me...)
AS I understood by our PM's, you are not willing to pay me the 50 dllrs even with the claim down ,neither "take the risk " of giving me the money as store credit ,as I offered before ,since the Admin said you do not have the money, but the money is there,you are just not willing to make a full refund of any kind.
My question about when to expect the rest remains with no answer .
Since I do not accept 25 now and 25 later ,because if you are not willing to make a full refund now you won't likely do it later either.
as per our PM your decision is : let paypal decide.
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Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM
I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.
HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.
I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral
Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
Not at all. I am giving you years of experience, and you have the benefit of that. (And you seem to be repeating yourself)
Let me break this down for you.
You have been offered solutions.
You are rejecting them.
The solution has been recommended by multiple people, including the Mods & Admin.
It is within your rights to not want this deal but at the end of the day you may end up with nothing.
If you have a further suggestion you are welcome to make it, but unfortunately, all I am seeing, and my Mods have agreed, is you accusing the OP of theft, and with ever increasing turbulence.
How do you want this to end?
It seems that you would like to proof that the OP has stolen the MOC, and has resold it for more funds.
You have not provided proof of this.
The OP cannot provide you with what she does not have.
Please advise me and everyone here, what your next step is.
Is it $50 in one lot? Taking ponies of equal value? (Which I see causing more issues)
If I was not neutral, I could not see the advantage of a resolution and I would have banned everyone and locked down this topic.
ETA: You seem to have thought about your response to me and removed it.
I am keeping my response and yours here, as I want everyone to see the whole picture.
I have removed the dramatic, and unnecessary comments from people who are having their fun.
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Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM
I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.
HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.
I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral
Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
Not at all. I am giving you years of experience, and you have the benefit of that. (And you seem to be repeating yourself)
Let me break this down for you.
You have been offered solutions.
You are rejecting them.
The solution has been recommended by multiple people, including the Mods & Admin.
It is within your rights to not want this deal but at the end of the day you may end up with nothing.
If you have a further suggestion you are welcome to make it, but unfortunately, all I am seeing, and my Mods have agreed, is you accusing the OP of theft, and with ever increasing turbulence.
How do you want this to end?
It seems that you would like to proof that the OP has stolen the MOC, and has resold it for more funds.
You have not provided proof of this.
The OP cannot provide you with what she does not have.
Please advise me and everyone here, what your next step is.
Is it $50 in one lot? Taking ponies of equal value? (Which I see causing more issues)
If I was not neutral, I could not see the advantage of a resolution and I would have banned everyone and locked down this topic.
ETA: You seem to have thought about your response to me and removed it.
I am keeping my response and yours here, as I want everyone to see the whole picture.
I have removed the dramatic, and unnecessary comments from people who are having their fun.
I just exchanged some Pm's with Thunderwing and her intention about the issue at hand is pretty clear to me : She refuses to make a full refund either by funds or store credit . and I refuse to take a partial refund .
no trust from her ,I'm willing to pay for more ponies and get my store credit and trust her with a new transaction and move on but she is declining that .therefore is my last post on this issue
locking the thread a long time ago would have shown Neutrality to me by the way :)
Is too late now ,but at least I learned how all works here when things go this way and what "nice supportive " people to stay away from now on.
Thanks but NO Thanks
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I am not taking a stance, but I am just curious - by full refund, do you mean the full $185, or $50?
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At this point, if there is a claim going on, the money has already been taken from the seller and is sitting in "stasis" until it can be released - when the claim is fully investigated by Paypal. It is wholly unfair to demand that an additional Paypal payments be made as a "refund" while the original funds are held up in a claim. That is asking the seller for a 200% refund and that is just beyond reasonable. If you did not request insurance, that is even more frustrating to this long-standing member of the community who honestly probably was quite HAPPY to share some of her ponies to help you complete your G2 collection! :( The seller insured it out of pocket and paid extra for shipping which makes the whole thing even more distasteful.
While the postal system is a terrible beast when it comes to lost/destroyed packages (Nirvanas from South America, anyone?!), once you let the seller know that there has been some kind of outrageous mishap (like a missing MOC and a different box entirely), and they acknowledge your concerns, mirror them, and are just as horrified and mortified as you are, your next move is to say, "I hope we can resolve this! I have sent you numerous photos - if you need to use any of them in your insurance claim, feel free. I will follow up with you in 2 business days to see how things are going. Thanks for understanding my concerns!" Your next move is not supposed to be to march over to Paypal and file a claim to freeze up their account. :(
Considering the risk of shipping over the holidays a second time, and having the seller spend yet MORE money on shipping costs... I don't think a refund in ponies is fair either! :(
Please try to put yourself in the seller's shoes - if you parted with some of your collection and it got lost in transit on the way to its new home, would you not be a little anxious about it? Just let the insurance process play out - Thunderwing is seriously not going to forget about the refund if you cancel the claim. Reputation is earned here by feedback and long-standing friendships. The community is not jumping down your throat as a whole; we are trying to show you some perspective. I think we ALL have gotten burned by the postal system before and it totally sucks! But it isn't the buyer's fault and it's not the seller's fault. You want to find someone to blame? Help Thunderwing with investigating the postal claim because it is unacceptable that postal workers are taking it upon themselves to repackage undamaged mail during the busiest time of year and leaving parts of your "order" missing! I'm horrified for you both on that principle alone! :(
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I am not taking a stance, but I am just curious - by full refund, do you mean the full $185, or $50?
He means $50.
What I don't understand is why Houston can not accept a partial refund? I mean you are going to get your money back either way and...I am just confused why paying in increments is a bad thing.
I just think you need to take a deep, calm breath and take a step back from this thread Houston and then come back to this thread to look on it with fresh eyes.
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I am not taking a stance, but I am just curious - by full refund, do you mean the full $185, or $50?
I was a little confused about this too????
Sending some Christmas spirit to this thread. :green: :party:
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Houston put a claim in for the ENTIRE amount, freezing all her Paypal funds. Thunder and Houston both agreed to a $50 refund for the missing pony. However, Thunder can't do JACK until the claim HC comes down. Paypal won't allow it. HC doesn't seem to understand that. So she couldn't even give him a partial refund at this point.
Releasing the claim unfreezes the funds, he gets the $25. When the INSURANCE claim comes through from Canada Post, he gets the other $25. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
Take the "new" ponies out of the equation HC. You've been calling TW a scammer among other things, so why would you want more ponies from her if you thought she was scamming you? Why you would want to complicate the situation further with ponies and "store credit" (huh?) is beyond me. Take Door 1.
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Welp, another one for the block list. Guess which one.
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Wait. You didn't pay or ask for insurance on a package that cost how much?
At this point, if paypal makes the decision, they're more than likely going to make you send the package back with full insurance and tracking before you get a refund. That's just how it works with them.
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Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM
I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.
HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.
I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral
Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
Not at all. I am giving you years of experience, and you have the benefit of that. (And you seem to be repeating yourself)
Let me break this down for you.
You have been offered solutions.
You are rejecting them.
The solution has been recommended by multiple people, including the Mods & Admin.
It is within your rights to not want this deal but at the end of the day you may end up with nothing.
If you have a further suggestion you are welcome to make it, but unfortunately, all I am seeing, and my Mods have agreed, is you accusing the OP of theft, and with ever increasing turbulence.
How do you want this to end?
It seems that you would like to proof that the OP has stolen the MOC, and has resold it for more funds.
You have not provided proof of this.
The OP cannot provide you with what she does not have.
Please advise me and everyone here, what your next step is.
Is it $50 in one lot? Taking ponies of equal value? (Which I see causing more issues)
If I was not neutral, I could not see the advantage of a resolution and I would have banned everyone and locked down this topic.
ETA: You seem to have thought about your response to me and removed it.
I am keeping my response and yours here, as I want everyone to see the whole picture.
I have removed the dramatic, and unnecessary comments from people who are having their fun.
I just exchanged some Pm's with Thunderwing and her intention about the issue at hand is pretty clear to me : She refuses to make a full refund either by funds or store credit . and I refuse to take a partial refund .
no trust from her ,I'm willing to pay for more ponies and get my store credit and trust her with a new transaction and move on but she is declining that .therefore is my last post on this issue
locking the thread a long time ago would have shown Neutrality to me by the way :)
Is too late now ,but at least I learned how all works here when things go this way and what "nice supportive " people to stay away from now on.
Thanks but NO Thanks
Locking this thread would have worked for YOU and no one else.
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Alrighty! So I finally had everything ready to send to paypal. Sent it off and responded to the claim. When Houston opened the claim, I was presented with a few options on how to respond:
1 - issue buyer a full refund, buyer keeps items. (HAHAHA!)
2 - issue buyer a full refund, buyer must return items.
3 - issue buyer a partial refund, in amount of $62
4 - prove buyer was already refunded.
5 - challenge the claim and leave it to paypal to decide.
I thought about this a lot the last 48 hours, and talked it over with my husband last night, and I decided to take DOOR NUMBER TWO! I have had enough of trying to work with Houston. I almost took option 5, but what a pain in the neck. So I chose option two. Houston can return the two ponies to me, get a full refund, and I will take it up in a postal claim myself. This way it is all done, he gets ALL his money back, I will sell the ponies to someone else, and he doesn't have to worry about trusting me to eventually come through or worry about the postal claim not being good.
I did send this message to Houston:
Quote:
Alright. I responded to the claim. Just to make it totally clear: when you return the ponies you MUST make sure they are well packaged so they arrive in the same condition that they left here in, you MUST provide tracking, and you MUST ensure they are returned in a way that they don't incur customs fees. Not sure if you can mark them as 'return' or what the options are. If you mark them as something else and there are customs fees, I will not accept the package.
I will be opening the box in front of the post master here so he can bear as a witness. If they are not in good condition, are absent, or were not properly packed, paypal will not issue you a refund. I have confirmed this with an agent at paypal.
End Quote.
So there you go. If Houston chooses to not return the ponies, I will still make good on my offer of a $25 and $25 refund. But it will be done on my terms. Just putting that out there, in public, so there are no worries that I will just keep the full $185. If he chooses to return the ponies, I may just raffle them off to recoup my losses. Complete with certificate of authenticity for being part of the drama of the year!
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Alrighty! So I finally had everything ready to send to paypal. Sent it off and responded to the claim. When Houston opened the claim, I was presented with a few options on how to respond:
1 - issue buyer a full refund, buyer keeps items. (HAHAHA!)
2 - issue buyer a full refund, buyer must return items.
3 - issue buyer a partial refund, in amount of $62
4 - prove buyer was already refunded.
5 - challenge the claim and leave it to paypal to decide.
I thought about this a lot the last 48 hours, and talked it over with my husband last night, and I decided to take DOOR NUMBER TWO! I have had enough of trying to work with Houston. I almost took option 5, but what a pain in the neck. So I chose option two. Houston can return the two ponies to me, get a full refund, and I will take it up in a postal claim myself. This way it is all done, he gets ALL his money back, I will sell the ponies to someone else, and he doesn't have to worry about trusting me to eventually come through or worry about the postal claim not being good.
I did send this message to Houston:
Quote:
Alright. I responded to the claim. Just to make it totally clear: when you return the ponies you MUST make sure they are well packaged so they arrive in the same condition that they left here in, you MUST provide tracking, and you MUST ensure they are returned in a way that they don't incur customs fees. Not sure if you can mark them as 'return' or what the options are. If you mark them as something else and there are customs fees, I will not accept the package.
I will be opening the box in front of the post master here so he can bear as a witness. If they are not in good condition, are absent, or were not properly packed, paypal will not issue you a refund. I have confirmed this with an agent at paypal.
End Quote.
So there you go. If Houston chooses to not return the ponies, I will still make good on my offer of a $25 and $25 refund. But it will be done on my terms. Just putting that out there, in public, so there are no worries that I will just keep the full $185. If he chooses to return the ponies, I may just raffle them off to recoup my losses. Complete with certificate of authenticity for being part of the drama of the year!
I do not intend to make you loose more money because: if I return them there will be the loss of the shipping you spent already ,and plus mine ,plus the risk of more lost ponies .
Claim closed
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Now we can finally move on! $25 refund sent!
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Now we can finally move on! $25 refund sent!
Received !
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*FLAIL*
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*FLAIL*
:lmao:
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I am happy to see resolve to this situation finally. ^^;
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I am happy to see resolve to this situation finally. ^^;
You and me both! So pleased for you, Thunderwing
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Yikes. Glad it is settled. Hope both of you are happy with the terms and everything arrives AS IT SHOULD.
and I hope the floating missing pony is out there somewhere making someone happy at least :d
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I am happy to see resolve to this situation finally. ^^;
This x 1,000,000,000,000,000 *sigh of relief* :)
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Posting an update about that pre-Christmas MOC pony that I sold to Houston that went missing (tampered parcel with three MOC's, remember that one?). I won't resurrect the old thread, but wanted to let any interested parties know what is happening. I just got an email from Canada Post and it looks like my insurance claim was approved, and I should have a cheque "5-10 business days".
Yay!
So once I have the cheque in hand, I will be sending Houston the additional $25. *nodnod* Will be glad to have this all finally wrapped up!
(Also sent a PM to Houston to this same effect).
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{merged and bumped to keep it all in one place} :heart: PL
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Good to know and thanks for the update :) :bigups:
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Glad that Canada Post is proceeding with said refund but seriously.... WHAT HAPPENED? I think the explanation is worth so much more than $25.00!
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I finally got the cheque from Canada Post, and have sent the balance owing to Houston ($25) so this transaction is all wrapped up and finally can be set aside. PHEW! I sent it as a 'gift' since I wasn't able to do a further refund on the original purchase, and so there would be no fees for him.
Squirmy - I'd love to know what happened too. I did call and ask Canada Post, but they couldn't give me an answer of what happened. She did confirm a few things - whatever happened, happened after the parcel went into USPS hands. It was NOT officially opened/damaged/etc. It was most likely a temporary employee who was only working for the holiday season. But why that person would go to the effort of repackaging the box, who knows. We'll never know. *headshake* Just glad it's over. The postal claim was a surprisingly easy process, I was able to do it all online, and Houston was not contacted, and didn't have to surrender any items/packaging, and they didn't even ask for photos. I just sent them a nice letter, good spelling and grammar, explaining what happened. And the claim came though faster than their original estimate of mid-March.
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Thanks for the update Thunderwing. I am sure you are glad this is over :)
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I'm glad it's all sorted at last :bigups: What a pain for both of you and we'll never really know what happened but at least its all over now :hug:
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Left positive feedback for her ! all good .
and yes who knows were the precious Moc G2 Twins Stardust and Moondust ended up with/at? hope at least someone is happy with them and not discarded/destroyed -_-
Post Merge: February 18, 2015, 08:49:27 AM
still hunting for them . :cry: