The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Tilas on May 22, 2012, 02:40:08 PM

Title: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Tilas on May 22, 2012, 02:40:08 PM
(Sorry if this is a repeat, I did a few searches and didn't find anything)  I just read this on DeviantArt, that a pony plushie maker who is fantastic as making plushies just got a cease and desist letter from DA staff, after they were approached by Habros legal eagles. I've copied their journal post below, and I'm curious, what do you think? I mean on one hand, I side with the artist. On the other.... I have to kind side with Hasbro on this one. I mean, yes, it's fan work and so many of us do sell cutoms and things, but I know this artist has been selling their work in the thousands of dollars, and it's all out using hasbro's property, not parody, not alteration or custom. So... where to draw the line? What do you think? Fair play or infringement?

Quote
ORIGINAL: http://whitedove-creations.deviantart.com/journal/Here-we-go-again-303725481
This is not a troll doing this. It is from the DA administation.  They have a complaint from Hasbro.

Someone turned me in. 

This note came from

"I'm contacting you today as a courtesy concerning a complaint which we have received.

We have received a claim of infringement from one Carin G. Reynolds, Esq. of Golenbock, Eiseman, Assor, Bell & Peskoe law firm representing Hasbro Inc.

The claim targets your use of your deviantART account to produce, advertise and sell plushies of the My Little Pony characters.

Hasbro is demanding that we close your account due to your infringement on their MLP property.

We obviously do not wish to close your account so I have spoken with Hasbro's representative and they would be willing to accept a solution which involves you removing all advertising and offers to sell My Little Pony related creations through your deviantART account.

If you are willing to voluntarily remove all My Little Pony related journals and deviations mentioning that you will or have sold plushies of these characters and thereby infringed on Hasbro's copyright and trademark then we can consider the matter to be resolved providing that you do not resume offering these characters for sale through your deviantART account.

I do hope that you are willing to remove this content from your deviantART account as our only other option to satisfy the claim of infringement filed with us by Hasbro's representative is to actually close your account and remove everything."


END OF NOTE

They are asking me to remove any post concerning commissions and prices, but maybe I will get to keep
my pics as long as they do not infringe copyright. In order to prevent any additional problems, I'm also removing all MLP related names and replacing them with generic substitutes like Purple Pony.

I am removing any names that are Hasbros

If you have any question, my email is listed. Please note me there.           
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Ice Crystal on May 22, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
Wow. I guess I can understand it but dang. That's too bad. Their plush are really lovely!

This person has even had their plush purchased by Jayson Thiessen. http://whitedove-creations.deviantart.com/art/she-is-going-to-live-with-Jayson-Thiessen-299594390
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: babystarz on May 22, 2012, 02:53:25 PM
Aww, that's really too bad :/ I wonder why they've just gone after her? I do believe it is infringement, it's just odd to me that only one person has received communication about it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Eviecorn on May 22, 2012, 02:56:16 PM
Weak!  That's pretty scary for a relatively small-time plush maker. :(
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Water_Fire on May 22, 2012, 02:57:04 PM
Hmm. I can see why Hasbro WOULD go after them, but why only single out one seller? It does whiff a little bit of the troll to me, but I can't be sure.


Of course, there is the argument that they've made thousands of dollars off their copyright. In an ideal world, they'd hire the artist on to design plushies for them legitimately. After all, it's what the tech companies do with hackers!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Lyra on May 22, 2012, 02:58:13 PM
Quote
If you are willing to voluntarilyremove all My Little Pony related journals and deviations *mentioning that you will or have sold* plushies of these characters

Ah it's not so bad, all they have been asked to do is remove anything that explicitely says the plushies are for sale, or have been sold. The person can simply continue posting pictues of pony plushies, but only discuss sales through private messaging, it's not really a loss and is a more careful way to go about it
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bellevi on May 22, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Maybe this means that they'll be going after other plushie makers. This will probably be just for G4 plushie makers, right? As far as I understand, Hasbro has lost the copyright for a lot of G1 names and I know AnitasMom makes a lot of G1 plushes.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: knitgirl on May 22, 2012, 03:01:16 PM
That's pretty sickening.  It's not like you can buy official MLP show accurate plushies in a range of characters.  Because if I could, I would.. Who would rather spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a stuffed animal instead of say $20 if they had a choice???
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarFaerie on May 22, 2012, 03:02:17 PM
Hmmm, having a look at her plushes, there is a lot of craft and skill in what she does but not a lot of art. I think that's what differentiates it from most custom work and makes it infringement rather than homage or fan art.
Hasbro are being rather nice about it for a large corporation really, just getting her to take down mentions of sales and even letting her keep her DA account rather than actually suing her for the infringement.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Emfen on May 22, 2012, 03:05:58 PM
It's a gray area.. I mean look at we love fine, they sell pony t-shirts but do they have any partnership with hasbro? There are a lot of plush makers, or merch makers for that reason. Instead of targeting this artist, I think they should have offered the artist to be hired and design their plush. Sometimes hasbro seems to punish the fanbase more than embrace it. Then you got those who make 3d figures... There are a lot of talented designers just lying in front of hasbros feet and yet they blindly claim copyright.
I understand that you might dislike your materials floating around on the web, but hey it's free promotion. Someone liked your stuff and decided to spread it around. Once my art was "stolen", but I figured that the person that re-uploaded it liked it so no hard feelings.
If now hasbro was claiming copyright, why not target equestria daily? Or Eveerfree radio? Or minecraft servers with pony material taking payments? There are a lot of those which fall in the category of copyright infringement so why target a single person?
It's like that dumb urban taggers incident all over again.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Water_Fire on May 22, 2012, 03:09:33 PM
We Love Fine is different because it's got a deal with Hasbro to make the shirts.


Thinking about it, it whiffs even harder of the trolls to me. After all, they've been successful in taking the Youtube accounts down in the past. There's such a huge custom base for MLP, it really does feel odd they'd only go for one (albeit very profitable) artist.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Tilas on May 22, 2012, 03:17:12 PM
Rereading it, I can't help but agree with the troll possibility. Maybe someone who didn't like her whined and complained to get her caught. I dunno. Still, it's a tough call. I mean it's one thing when we sell customs for $20-$50. We're small fries and able to fly under copyright radar. But this artist was getting over a $1000 per pony, which is much more noticable...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Emfen on May 22, 2012, 03:24:36 PM
Of course quality is desired, hence the big bucks. If only hasbro learned that if they put some more quality into their plush merch it wouldn't be such a problem. She is one of the best plush makers around and the demand to own a thing of that quality is a privilege to pony fans, what if hasbro sold plush ponies of that quality? I'd buy one in an instant.
I think there's trolling involved...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Al-1701 on May 22, 2012, 03:32:21 PM
What I find interesting is it's a law firm contacting Deviantart.  Why wouldn't Hasbro contact her directly?  It's not like they don't know how if she's selling the plush.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Catlein on May 22, 2012, 03:32:58 PM
It might be an issue of volume. WhiteDove has sold several plushies in the over a thousand dollar range, and her commissions are usually $400 plus. Well this isn't generally any different in pricing that other big name plushie artists, WD has made an absolute tonne of plushies, and has probably profited immensely in a short period of time. A mildly profitable hobby spread out over several years (like your average customerizer) is probably not as threatening to Hasbro as what WD is being perceived as.

Hasbro might also be uncomfortable with the fact that even the show creators are going to her now that she's so well known.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Scraleos on May 22, 2012, 03:35:42 PM
This has happened to one of her eBay auctions before. In the end, it was a troll who was jealous because he could not afford the plush. I'm guessing this is either a troll or a snitch.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 22, 2012, 03:56:21 PM
Hasbro tended to leave alone the YouTube episodes until there was a legitimate alternative. (sucks for people who can't access itunes but if they left YouTube alone even ppl who can access itunes might not buy em) Maybe Hasbro will be releasing some legitimate plushies soon?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 04:12:19 PM
That's pretty sickening.  It's not like you can buy official MLP show accurate plushies in a range of characters.  Because if I could, I would.. Who would rather spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a stuffed animal instead of say $20 if they had a choice???


I actually suspect Hasbro is about to start producing more show-accurate plush of many characters, it is only logical considering how much they listen to the fan community, and it explains why they went after this plush artist now.
These fan plush look closest to official artwork out of most I've seen, so I think they pose a more real copyright threat, as opposed to the more stylized or less skilled plush makers who's work obviously isn't official merchandise.


Thanks for the heads-up, OP! As a custom artist, I will be keeping my nose to the ground until I know what's going on.

Post Merge: May 22, 2012, 04:14:32 PM

What I find interesting is it's a law firm contacting Deviantart.  Why wouldn't Hasbro contact her directly?  It's not like they don't know how if she's selling the plush.


Sounds like Hasbro is going through the law firm to send this C&D letter- I think it's standard practice, really. They want to be as professional about this as possible, making sure all the wording and everything is correct and legally clear. It doesn't strike me as unusual.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Dragonflitter on May 22, 2012, 04:17:23 PM
Quote
Someone turned me in. 

*eye roll* Yeah, someone 'turned you in'... when you take copyrighted characters, make TONS of money off property that is NOT yours, and do so publicly on a site where people run professional businesses selling art.... No one had to 'turn her in', any Hasbro employee can do a search and find plushies for sale!

It's about time Hasbro warned these people, I think. It's one thing to be a fan of a show, it's another thing entirely to run a business making hundreds/thousands/whatever of dollars off of property that does not belong to you.

Do you see the little (tm) next to characters' names on the MLP toys? Do you think that means nothing?


Oh and the people saying "It's okay to steal property because Hasbro won't make plushies, so the fans should be able to make them and sell them"...? If a company made a poor quality product, is it okay for another company to take that exact same product and make it better and sell it to people? NO. That is why copyright and patents exist. Because that is not okay to do in this country. There's no excuse that makes it okay to steal these character images and run a business with them.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 22, 2012, 04:19:02 PM
Quote
Sounds like Hasbro is going through the law firm to send this C&D letter- I think it's standard practice, really. They want to be as professional about this as possible, making sure all the wording and everything is correct and legally clear. It doesn't strike me as unusual.

This. A layperson can't send a cease and desist - it's not legally binding.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 22, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
that is pretty sad although i figure it is a troll.
even if hasbro starts making plushes i am sure the people in china making them will not make them look as good as the custom makers.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: tulagirl on May 22, 2012, 04:28:14 PM
It totally makes sense to me.  This kind of thing is a big deal.  You should not ever make something to copy after a character from a show by a company without permission if you plan to sell it. If you plan to keep it for yourself that is fine, but making money off of merchandise with names and the look of stuff created by a company really is not the right thing to do.  Its nice that they send a note and don't just send people to court and fine them lots of money for infringement issues.  It could be so much worse so, I am glad that they are willing to go the nice route first.  Some companies would see nothing in taking a person to the cleaners for doing this innocently ..not realizing it was wrong.
 
There is a bigger issue here to me and that is not that one is caught and so they have to stop...but the realization that this is a law and the company has every right to protect their line, their names and their characters.  Its no different than copying a poem from a book and claiming it as your own.  Its really the same thing.  It shouldn't be done...not ever..and not just because you get caught..because its against copyright laws.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: jwalraven on May 22, 2012, 04:35:10 PM
Sounds like a very jealous troll or somebody that is butthurt over WhiteDove making good money for her time and effort for her plushies. She has made plushies to donate to charity and MLP staff themselves have bought plushies from her (Faust, Sibsy, and Thiessen).

I'm thinking she got targeted because of the money she makes (and claims is her only income) from these plushies and had big name commissioners. I do find it odd that the legal team is going after her through dA staff instead of emailing her directly. :/
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 22, 2012, 04:46:31 PM
you can't blame them, if i made something and everyone copied off me then i would be mad,
but i ask this, if hasbro is against it so much how come they still sell them like crazy on ebay and etsy?
all hasbro has to do is send a email to ebay and etsy and say, don't let people sell theses on your site.
and it would be like all the other things you are not allowed to sell on ebay, they take it down and give you a warning, but instead hasbro lets people sell them by the hundreds on ebay without trying to stop them at all, because if they wanted they could stop it today, but they don't.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 22, 2012, 04:48:14 PM
Well, a troll wouldn't be able to get a legal team I doubt, and I'd imagine dA checked to make sure the C&D was legitimate before acting on it.

I've sold fan art and so have lots of other people, but the reality is, selling fanart is illegal, and we really only get away with it because companies often let us. (For this reason, many anime conventions, for example, no longer allow fan art in their Artist Alley, and Etsy doesn't allow it at all, although people can get away with it if they don't get noticed).

Making significant income off fan art is going to get a company's attention, and I've been hearing rumors and suspicions that Hasbro's going to be releasing plushies, so maybe this is part of that. As for why contact dA and not the artist directly? Maybe it's easier for companies to deal with other companies rather than individuals or they get a better response that way? Maybe that legal team doesn't understand how dA works? Could be any number of other reasons.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 04:58:08 PM
it looks legit to me. the firm is a real firm that hasbro has been attached to before, it handles SEVERAL "practice areas include corporate, finance, real estate, intellectual property and technology and health care services." (that's straight from their website) and they've have several cases with very similar beginings ...

and they contacted DeviantArt because they wanted DeviantArt to shut down her page because THEY were allowing this unlawful activity to happen on THEIR site ... you don't go to fingers for control issues ... you go to the brain. the finger won't stop doing what it's doing unless the brain tells it to knock it off. and there is a legal way to do these things. hasbro cannot contact the offender directly because it will not be legally binding. hasbro will work through their LEGAL TEAM to make sure things are upheld in the most legal law abiding way so that someone cannot wiggle out of it because of a technicality ...

and they may be choosing their battles on a "high profile" ground ... you go after the highest profile plush infringer (she is infringing on copyrighted characters, epically amazingly and unbelieveable cute or not) and word spreads that hasbro isn't taking this crap sitting down so other infringers shut down, go quiet etc in fear of reprisal ...

happens every day ...

its all seeming totally legit even with just the little info i'm gleaning from a simple google search ...
 
 
 
ETA: and that Carin G Reynolds is the same name that appears on the MTG fan art/comics/fictions sites from some time back ... MTG is part of hasbro ... stupid wizards of the coast ...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 22, 2012, 05:00:15 PM
Interesting that they used the term "plushie" without quotations or something. It's slang!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Ligress on May 22, 2012, 05:02:54 PM
This makes me sad beyond words, but I guess it makes sense.
They want less competition when they make more plushies.
I seriously feel my heart hurting to think about someone being told to stop making something they love though. =(
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 22, 2012, 05:04:39 PM
Interesting that they used the term "plushie" without quotations or something. It's slang!

Derp, I can't context. This was from one of the dA powers-that-be on behalf of a law firm. My bad!

Yeah, this is very curious. I'm wondering why the law firm didn't contact the plush maker personally, though. I wonder if it's because of hosting or something. My head sure does hurt!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Squirrel on May 22, 2012, 05:05:32 PM
Don't know if I should toss in my 2 cents or not...  But a friend of mine has gotten cease-and-desist letters before (not from Hasbro, it was regarding a completely different fandom)...  A cease-and-desist letter sent to deviantART would be real-- it wouldn't be a troll.  Hasbro in fact does employ/retain lawyers to do just this, and there's been murmuring in other Hasbro fandoms about them tightening up on certain things as well (Bot-Con had a huge blow-up when Hasbro tried to restrict transformers fan-art being sold in the artist alley!!!)

But, it is necessary for Hasbro to do this when things get a bit too public-- because if they don't, they can lose certain rights to their own property.  Something to also keep in mind is that the artist in question just had an interview on a popular Brony podcast...  that's pretty overt and a good way to draw attention.  Yeah, it could possibly have been a personal attack (she seems fairly confident that it was, so there may be more there that wasn't mentioned), but it's also possible that she got too much exposure. 

As to how it will affect other aspects of the hobby-- I'm not sure.  It's my feelings that Hasbro would have a really hard time doing anything against anyone who customizes the actual Hasbro toys...  there's a 25+year history there and loads of evidence that shows that they support this hobby.  They make a "make your own pony" toy for goodness sake.  And historically, from what I've been able to find, their cease-and-desist letters usually have gone to those who have misrepresented their creations as actual Hasbro products- usually because of fan-made packaging. 
Of course, I myself occasionally sell show-accurate resin mane and tail kits, so others can customize their own ponies...  I try to tell myself that I'm skirting the issue because I don't create "whole" characters-- but I also very much realize that that doesn't change the fact that I'm selling something based on the likeness of their intellectual property.  The reality of this is that one day I may not be able to sell those kits anymore, and I'll just be selling finished customs.  Time will only tell.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 22, 2012, 05:07:09 PM
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't it be legally binding to go to the person directly? Also, I didn't think dA was really responsible for what their users post, but I don't actually know the details of how all that works. (You can pm me if this is too off topic...I really am curious!)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 22, 2012, 05:11:16 PM
Elisto, you have the exact same questions that I do. It's strange, and part of me really wonders if somebody along the way is just looking for attention. Hmmmm...

EDIT:
Here's some more mention of that law firm in connection with Hasbro. Nothing terribly credible, but if this is a hoax, it's a darn elaborate one.

http://pastebin.com/n6684s6t
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 22, 2012, 05:14:22 PM
I feel bad for her,and I see where Hasbro is coming from. The thing is though what about the others that are making plushies among other things show related? I have seen crocheted ones, all different kinds of materials used to make show accurate ponies. Is Hasbro going to start on those people as well or was this person singled out because she made so much profit? Just curious, I know a little about how this works,but not everything.I mean would it have been different if she had explained that the designs of the pony wasn't hers that it was hasbro's just the creative work that she did was hers?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 05:16:49 PM
and yeah, not a derp moment Bergamot, there are a lot of parties involved in this one and we don't get to see the actual C&D letter from Hasbro, just DA's inquirey to whitedove and DA calls them "plushies" but i wouldn't doubt the legal team would call them plushies if that's what white dove is calling them ... plushie has become a very widespread term for a plush animal toy

as for marketing them as official hasbro products ... she was using hasbro characters to make hasbro characters and marketing them as "my little pony" items ... not "customs" or "ooak" of her OWN characters ...

customs are 90% original characters NOT created by hasbro and/or a character they no longer have control over or are "obviously" not a real hasbro production (a g1 character done on a g4 body for example) which is different thatn taking an existing hasbro controlled character and creating something to replicate it's likeness and make a TON of money on it ... it is trademark and copyright protected which means hasbro can sue your pants off if you make something of it's likeness and make money on it ...

hasbro can pick and choose their battles ... i think they chose this one as white dove is pretty high profile ... and they may even have been tipped off to white dove's existance by the high profile names attached to FiM BUYING her stuff and bragging about it's sheer awesomeness :(
 
 
 
 
ETA because a big firm contacting an individual person directly is a might intimidating and if they say the wrong thing the case is no longer good because the person can get off on a technicality ... think of the times when Miranda rights haven't been read and a very dangerous person has been able to walk away scott free because of it ... and as a corporation Hasbro is not a REAL PHYSICAL being and needs a person to act in their behalf, where a lawfirm comes in for legal matters, or a PR team for advertising, etc, and EVERYTHING has to be run through a legal team to be checked for any possible illegal claims/statements/images/etc they are going through their legal team because it's the safest and only legal thing thing to do ... like i couldn't walk up to you on the street and go "HEY! I OWNED THOSE PANTS BEFORE YOU AND I DIDN"T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WEAR THEM TODAY TAKE THEM OFF NOW!" there is a protocol to these things ... just because someone doesn't understand them or why they exist doesn't mean the don't exist ...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on May 22, 2012, 05:19:51 PM
Not surprising if she is getting THAT much exposure and profit off of making show characters, even IF they are more accurate to the animation.  They are still characters licensed to Hasbro. 

I imagine they don't bother going after others because their plushies don't LOOK like Hasbro's art.  People who make G1 plushies are also safe as Hasbro doesn't really have active copyright on those characters anymore, with the exception of a few.  ;)  Like Applejack!

But as soon as you start taking away from Hasbro's current market and start trying to profit from the marketing infrastructure they have created ... yeah...  you're going to get caught eventually by the C&D lawyers. 
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 22, 2012, 05:22:31 PM
Ahh I see now..
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 22, 2012, 05:29:26 PM
Hahah. "Plushie" still seems so colloquial to me! ;)

hasbro can pick and choose their battles ... i think they chose this one as white dove is pretty high profile ... and they may even have been tipped off to white dove's existance by the high profile names attached to FiM BUYING her stuff and bragging about it's sheer awesomeness :(

I think having a C&D sent at all is a big deal, and probably costs the company a silly amount of money as there's a law firm involved. I agree; it would make sense for Hasbro to pick a high-profile plush maker like this who's making a lot of money per plush to set an example.

I do not believe that anybody ratted this artist out, however. They are a very high visibility and high-yield plush maker, after all! It's not like the trade of custom MLP merchandise is totally underground; a quick Google search will turn up all kinds of artists.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 22, 2012, 05:35:17 PM
This seems extremely odd.  Hasbro have never given a crap before, why now?  Is it the money?  Its not like they have an alternative is it?  That money wasn't going to be spent on one of their plushies.  I feel there is something in this we're missing, but I don't know what.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 05:42:22 PM
Quote
Someone turned me in. 

*eye roll* Yeah, someone 'turned you in'... when you take copyrighted characters, make TONS of money off property that is NOT yours, and do so publicly on a site where people run professional businesses selling art.... No one had to 'turn her in', any Hasbro employee can do a search and find plushies for sale!

It's about time Hasbro warned these people, I think. It's one thing to be a fan of a show, it's another thing entirely to run a business making hundreds/thousands/whatever of dollars off of property that does not belong to you.

Do you see the little (tm) next to characters' names on the MLP toys? Do you think that means nothing?


Oh and the people saying "It's okay to steal property because Hasbro won't make plushies, so the fans should be able to make them and sell them"...? If a company made a poor quality product, is it okay for another company to take that exact same product and make it better and sell it to people? NO. That is why copyright and patents exist. Because that is not okay to do in this country. There's no excuse that makes it okay to steal these character images and run a business with them.
It totally makes sense to me.  This kind of thing is a big deal.  You should not ever make something to copy after a character from a show by a company without permission if you plan to sell it. If you plan to keep it for yourself that is fine, but making money off of merchandise with names and the look of stuff created by a company really is not the right thing to do.  Its nice that they send a note and don't just send people to court and fine them lots of money for infringement issues.  It could be so much worse so, I am glad that they are willing to go the nice route first.  Some companies would see nothing in taking a person to the cleaners for doing this innocently ..not realizing it was wrong.
 
There is a bigger issue here to me and that is not that one is caught and so they have to stop...but the realization that this is a law and the company has every right to protect their line, their names and their characters.  Its no different than copying a poem from a book and claiming it as your own.  Its really the same thing.  It shouldn't be done...not ever..and not just because you get caught..because its against copyright laws.

This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 05:45:03 PM
Quote
Someone turned me in. 

*eye roll* Yeah, someone 'turned you in'... when you take copyrighted characters, make TONS of money off property that is NOT yours, and do so publicly on a site where people run professional businesses selling art.... No one had to 'turn her in', any Hasbro employee can do a search and find plushies for sale!

It's about time Hasbro warned these people, I think. It's one thing to be a fan of a show, it's another thing entirely to run a business making hundreds/thousands/whatever of dollars off of property that does not belong to you.

Do you see the little (tm) next to characters' names on the MLP toys? Do you think that means nothing?


Oh and the people saying "It's okay to steal property because Hasbro won't make plushies, so the fans should be able to make them and sell them"...? If a company made a poor quality product, is it okay for another company to take that exact same product and make it better and sell it to people? NO. That is why copyright and patents exist. Because that is not okay to do in this country. There's no excuse that makes it okay to steal these character images and run a business with them.
It totally makes sense to me.  This kind of thing is a big deal.  You should not ever make something to copy after a character from a show by a company without permission if you plan to sell it. If you plan to keep it for yourself that is fine, but making money off of merchandise with names and the look of stuff created by a company really is not the right thing to do.  Its nice that they send a note and don't just send people to court and fine them lots of money for infringement issues.  It could be so much worse so, I am glad that they are willing to go the nice route first.  Some companies would see nothing in taking a person to the cleaners for doing this innocently ..not realizing it was wrong.
 
There is a bigger issue here to me and that is not that one is caught and so they have to stop...but the realization that this is a law and the company has every right to protect their line, their names and their characters.  Its no different than copying a poem from a book and claiming it as your own.  Its really the same thing.  It shouldn't be done...not ever..and not just because you get caught..because its against copyright laws.

This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.


:( Corporations are made up of real people with souls and feelings and families. This isn't a black and white issue. It isn't US against THEM. Both sides have value, neither side is some evil demon out to make the other side miserable.
A company has to protect its assets, an artist has to pay the bills.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Quote
Someone turned me in. 

*eye roll* Yeah, someone 'turned you in'... when you take copyrighted characters, make TONS of money off property that is NOT yours, and do so publicly on a site where people run professional businesses selling art.... No one had to 'turn her in', any Hasbro employee can do a search and find plushies for sale!

It's about time Hasbro warned these people, I think. It's one thing to be a fan of a show, it's another thing entirely to run a business making hundreds/thousands/whatever of dollars off of property that does not belong to you.

Do you see the little (tm) next to characters' names on the MLP toys? Do you think that means nothing?


Oh and the people saying "It's okay to steal property because Hasbro won't make plushies, so the fans should be able to make them and sell them"...? If a company made a poor quality product, is it okay for another company to take that exact same product and make it better and sell it to people? NO. That is why copyright and patents exist. Because that is not okay to do in this country. There's no excuse that makes it okay to steal these character images and run a business with them.
It totally makes sense to me.  This kind of thing is a big deal.  You should not ever make something to copy after a character from a show by a company without permission if you plan to sell it. If you plan to keep it for yourself that is fine, but making money off of merchandise with names and the look of stuff created by a company really is not the right thing to do.  Its nice that they send a note and don't just send people to court and fine them lots of money for infringement issues.  It could be so much worse so, I am glad that they are willing to go the nice route first.  Some companies would see nothing in taking a person to the cleaners for doing this innocently ..not realizing it was wrong.
 
There is a bigger issue here to me and that is not that one is caught and so they have to stop...but the realization that this is a law and the company has every right to protect their line, their names and their characters.  Its no different than copying a poem from a book and claiming it as your own.  Its really the same thing.  It shouldn't be done...not ever..and not just because you get caught..because its against copyright laws.

This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.


 :( Corporations are made up of real people with souls and feelings and families. This isn't a black and white issue. It isn't US against THEM. Both sides have value, neither side is some evil demon out to make the other side miserable.
A company has to protect its assets, an artist has to pay the bills.
Who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Al-1701 on May 22, 2012, 05:49:19 PM
I'm still confused about the letter.  Going back to the law firm thing, large companies like Hasbro tend to have their own legal team, not retaining an outside law firm.  I could be wrong about Hasbro, but I grew up in a General Motors family and if we needed a lawyer we turned to GM Legal.  Also, I would think they would have sent the C&D straight to her, not Deviantart.  Because it's not directed to her, she's not legally bound to follow it.  They would have to go through the added expense to send her one.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Malicieuse on May 22, 2012, 05:53:26 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 05:54:14 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?


When a company does not actively enforce their copyright, they will lose it, which means they could lose EVERYTHING. And that would be bad for all of us!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 05:58:32 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?


When a company does not actively enforce their copyright, they will lose it, which means they could lose EVERYTHING. And that would be bad for all of us!
Show me an example of this happening from fan-produced content alone.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Al-1701 on May 22, 2012, 05:59:59 PM
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
This is more of an issue of dilution of trademark.  (Which someone already mentioned.)  If they let her make plush toys without expressed permission, it weakens their claim to the trademarks.  I doubt she would try to make a claim of their trademarks, but its the slippery slope argument.  As for hiring her, there's more legal issues as Hasbro's vendors might squeak if they her on.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Malicieuse on May 22, 2012, 06:01:45 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarFaerie on May 22, 2012, 06:03:17 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?

It limits Hasbro from being able to sell their own plushies in the long run as it can cause them to lose control of their copyright which loses Hasbro money, which loses the shareholders of Hasbro money, many of who are ordinary Americans, retirees and people's 401K, which affects the US tax revenue. Plus Hasbro made a loss last year which they cannot keep affording to do otherwise they'll go under and we will no longer have any new ponies at all. So everyone really.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 06:03:59 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Because making plushies of characters from your own pattern is the exact same thing as taking art, making zero changes to it, and selling it.
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?

It limits Hasbro from being able to sell their own plushies in the long run as it can cause them to lose control of their copyright which loses Hasbro money, which loses the shareholders of Hasbro money, many of who are ordinary Americans, retirees and people's 401K, which affects the US tax revenue. Plus Hasbro made a loss last year which they cannot keep affording to do otherwise they'll go under and we will no longer have any new ponies at all. So everyone really.
Once again, show me an example of this happening from fan-created content alone.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 22, 2012, 06:05:58 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?


When a company does not actively enforce their copyright, they will lose it, which means they could lose EVERYTHING. And that would be bad for all of us!
Show me an example of this happening from fan-produced content alone.


 I'm with you stuntmang.  It is one thing to go and open a shop that directly competes with hasbro.  It is a complete other thing when it is a small time person making things by commission.  I know they are in their rights, but their rights are stupid.  And you can't go to pony fairs, see people selling plushes go, 'oh nice, we love that kind of thing' and then turn around and call out the lawyers.  It is inconsistent and confusing.

Also, they do enforce their copyright, doing this doesn't change anything.  You only need to keep making things under copyright to enforce it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarFaerie on May 22, 2012, 06:09:48 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Because making plushies of characters from your own pattern is the exact same thing as taking art, making zero changes to it, and selling it.
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?

It limits Hasbro from being able to sell their own plushies in the long run as it can cause them to lose control of their copyright which loses Hasbro money, which loses the shareholders of Hasbro money, many of who are ordinary Americans, retirees and people's 401K, which affects the US tax revenue. Plus Hasbro made a loss last year which they cannot keep affording to do otherwise they'll go under and we will no longer have any new ponies at all. So everyone really.
Once again, show me an example of this happening from fan-created content alone.

Show me examples of where they were able to enforce it after defacto permitting this.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Malicieuse on May 22, 2012, 06:10:19 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Because making plushies of characters from your own pattern is the exact same thing as taking art, making zero changes to it, and selling it.
She still took a character and design that she did not create nor owns.
Just because she put more effort into it than just printing something out doesn't change that.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Vintergatan on May 22, 2012, 06:12:06 PM
I think we´ve already found out on another topic that Hasbro indeed does hire a third party  law-firm. I too am surprised that they don't actually have a legal department of their own though, but that just seems to be the way it is.

As for the whole issue, I think my opinion on how copyright works etc has already been voiced numerous times and thus my sentiments are definitely not that people like WhiteDove are thieves. While I do agree that companies have the full legal right to go after these people that are indeed using Hasbro's copyrighted IP I don't feel that she is doing anything wrong. As Stuntmang pointed out, no one is losing out on these sales. The only issue might be that Hasbro is indeed looking to produce and sell similar items in which case these plushies would be seen as competition. That, and she is really hight profile.
I appreciate that Hasbro has been very supportive to the customizing community and such but this might have been a bit too much for them? No idea, it´s hard to know how such a huge company thinks. So many things might be going on behind the scenes. Maybe one CEO found it endearing that people love these products enough to make fan art and the other thinks it´s theft and is harmful to the company. Who knows ^^

Since Hasbro does have the legal right to stop productions of this kind maybe they just thought it would be better to keep it more underground in stead of high profile and have done this as a warning to the community to keep it down a bit. Either way, I can completely see both sides in this.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Catlein on May 22, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?


When a company does not actively enforce their copyright, they will lose it, which means they could lose EVERYTHING. And that would be bad for all of us!
Show me an example of this happening from fan-produced content alone.


 I'm with you stuntmang.  It is one thing to go and open a shop that directly competes with hasbro.  It is a complete other thing when it is a small time person making things by commission.  I know they are in their rights, but their rights are stupid.  And you can't go to pony fairs, see people selling plushes go, 'oh nice, we love that kind of thing' and then turn around and call out the lawyers.  It is inconsistent and confusing.

Also, they do enforce their copyright, doing this doesn't change anything.  You only need to keep making things under copyright to enforce it.

I think the issue here was that most people don't make in the tens of thousands of dollars in a year (add up the Ebay sales). Most of the customizers on the Arena talk about how they aren't really making huge profits. WD was supposedly doing this full time. I am pretty sure the hobbyists are safe (AKA people who aren't making a living wage off their stuff).
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 06:15:00 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Because making plushies of characters from your own pattern is the exact same thing as taking art, making zero changes to it, and selling it.
She still took a character and design that she did not create nor owns.
Just because she put more effort into it than just printing something out doesn't change that.
It actually does. This isn't a case of mass production of the characters, this is handmade, high quality stuff. Hasbro isn't going to be releasing 1000 dollar plushies, they're going to make cheap 20 dollar ones. They're not going to lose money on this. If I did art and someone drew a character from said art, then sold the art, I wouldn't care as long as they said something about me being the creator of said character. I'm not going to lose money or fans from that, and will likely gain fans.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 22, 2012, 06:15:44 PM
like I said. if hasbro really  wanted to stop people from selling custom plushies all they have to do is have there lawyers contact ebay and that would be that, then anything that was listed as a my little pony plush would get flagged and taken down, but they don't ,they let people do it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 06:15:58 PM
Either way, it was generous of Hasbro to allow her to keep her gallery up. I've heard stories about fan-products from other franchises having to be destroyed because of these kinds of legal issues. I would cry so hard if I had to destroy something I spent hours slaving over to appease a judge!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: sd_dreamcrystal on May 22, 2012, 06:18:03 PM
My only problem with this is "Why go after only one person?" Well as far as we know it's only been one.... There are several people out there who are making customs of the FiM Characters, from dolls to plushies and even artwork... It doesn't make sense to me really...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
My only problem with this is "Why go after only one person?" Well as far as we know it's only been one.... There are several people out there who are making customs of the FiM Characters, from dolls to plushies and even artwork... It doesn't make sense to me really...


I hate to be all ominous, but I think this is only the beginning.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 06:20:02 PM
... there is no example to give ... BUT hasbro stopped enforcing their copyright/trademark on the transformer name bumble bee ... other companies picked it up for other products ... hasbro has a huge uphill battle to try a nd get it to use for the new movies the past few years ... i don't think they ever really got it back ...

... hasbro also stopped enforcing the cr/tm on the G1 ponies and now cannot use them without being able to protect them, opening them up for lawsuits (thus why we won't see many or any old G1's as official G1 names/colors/types) ...

in this case if hasbro doesn't put up a fight against someone infringing on their copyrights and trademarks they will lose their protections on their intellectual property, allowing anyone and everyone to pretty much steal their ideas from them ...

hasbro has every right to protect their ideas and properties that they have trademarked and copyrighted in order to preserve their protections on their own properties.

just because it's "one person" doesn't mean it's right to use someone elses ideas for their own personal gain. she could have designed her own characters and been fine. or sold them as "plush colored horses" and changed something about them and been fine ... but if you steal someone's ideas it's wrong ... be it another person, a corporation, a nameless/faceless artist on the internet, an author, a doctor, a student, whatever. using something that isn't yours for personal gain is just morally ethically wrong. why should it have to be defended?
 
yeah whitedove plushes are amazing and kudos that they go for that much ... but i know what it's like to have something stolen and used without my permission and see that pther person make a crapload of money off it ... one person or a corporation if it isn't yours, don't go there ... that's my stance ... hasbro is just trying to cover their butts and keep their protections in place ... and they chose white dove ... can't help that ... it's all over the internet ... it's how the cookie crumbles when you're the one who put your hand in the neighbor's cookie jar ...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 22, 2012, 06:21:39 PM
... there is no example to give ... BUT hasbro stopped enforcing their copyright/trademark on the transformer name bumble bee ... other companies picked it up for other products ... hasbro has a huge uphill battle to try a nd get it to use for the new movies the past few years ... i don't think they ever really got it back ...

... hasbro also stopped enforcing the cr/tm on the G1 ponies and now cannot use them without being able to protect them, opening them up for lawsuits (thus why we won't see many or any old G1's as official G1 names/colors/types) ...

in this case if hasbro doesn't put up a fight against someone infringing on their copyrights and trademarks they will lose their protections on their intellectual property, allowing anyone and everyone to pretty much steal their ideas from them ...

hasbro has every right to protect their ideas and properties that they have trademarked and copyrighted in order to preserve their protections on their own properties.

just because it's "one person" doesn't mean it's right to use someone elses ideas for their own personal gain. she could have designed her own characters and been fine. or sold them as "plush colored horses" and changed something about them and been fine ... but if you steal someone's ideas it's wrong ... be it another person, a corporation, a nameless/faceless artist on the internet, an author, a doctor, a student, whatever. using something that isn't yours for personal gain is just morally ethically wrong. why should it have to be defended?
 
yeah whitedove plushes are amazing and kudos that they go for that much ... but i know what it's like to have something stolen and used without my permission and see that pther person make a crapload of money off it ... one person or a corporation if it isn't yours, don't go there ... that's my stance ... hasbro is just trying to cover their butts and keep their protections in place ... and they chose white dove ... can't help that ... it's all over the internet ... it's how the cookie crumbles when you're the one who put your hand in the neighbor's cookie jar ...
Exactly. Companies. Not individuals handmaking bumblebee toys, large companies cranking out production lines of Bumblebee. I have no problem with Hasbro cracking down on knockoffs, but if it's one person handmaking the plushies, it's a jerk move.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Al-1701 on May 22, 2012, 06:23:46 PM
Hasbro made almost $400 last year in profit.  They lost money the first quarter of this year.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 06:24:27 PM
Well, this seems rather petty of Hasbro to me.  It's not like the people spending hundreds of dollars on plushies are going to run out and buy their $10 crappy Uncanny Valley plush Twilight Sparkle from Toys R Us if they can't access "good" plushies.  They're within their rights technically, but c'mon.

It's no different from people paying money for commissions of pony art.   Are those people going to buy clip-art FIM decals if Hasbro starts cracking down on fan-artists next?  I think not.


I do not believe that fan-art, fan-videos, fan-plushes, fan-anything truly threatens Hasbro's copyrights/trademarks.   If they did, Marvel Comics and DC would long ago have lost the rights to their characters, as they've been bought and sold in a myriad of fan-forms for decades.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 22, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
It's probably that a fellow artist ratted her out.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: egyptiondragon on May 22, 2012, 06:26:16 PM
i would think hasbro would instead of trying to get rid of people that make these awesome plushes they would try to work with them to better their own products i mean if people are makeing money off of plushes becuz they make them better than hasbro does wouldnt hasbro want a peace of that money
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 22, 2012, 06:30:44 PM
I think legally there is a perceived loss.  And that's enough to send your dogs to a fight.

It doesn't matter if they're losing money that could be quantified.  They spend money for production, intellectual copyright, patents, etc. There will be a perceived loss.

Yes, Hasbro has a third-party law firm handle their legal matters in different departments. All companies do. I know just working for lawyers/being married to one that for example Target, Chilis, Macys, Dillards, etc all have outside law firms.  Sometimes that's more cost effective.

Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Malicieuse on May 22, 2012, 06:35:01 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
Again, who is losing money from the production of these plushies?
That still doesn't give you the right to take the creation of someone else and start selling it...
If you would make some art, post it online and someone else prints and sells it without your approval, is that ok? The original artist wasn't planning on doing that so by your logic that is just fine.
Because making plushies of characters from your own pattern is the exact same thing as taking art, making zero changes to it, and selling it.
She still took a character and design that she did not create nor owns.
Just because she put more effort into it than just printing something out doesn't change that.
It actually does. This isn't a case of mass production of the characters, this is handmade, high quality stuff. Hasbro isn't going to be releasing 1000 dollar plushies, they're going to make cheap 20 dollar ones. They're not going to lose money on this. If I did art and someone drew a character from said art, then sold the art, I wouldn't care as long as they said something about me being the creator of said character. I'm not going to lose money or fans from that, and will likely gain fans.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't change the fact that she did not create this character. So if the real creator/owner doesn't want this to happen they have every right to act. That's pretty much it.
It doesn't matter how expensive those plush are or how annoying it is. And like others have mentioned there is a difference between making a couple of customs and turning something like that into your job. Frankly, i think setting up a "business" around creating characters you do not own is not such a great move. At least you should be aware the original creator might take you down.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 22, 2012, 06:36:28 PM
... there is no example to give ... BUT hasbro stopped enforcing their copyright/trademark on the transformer name bumble bee ... other companies picked it up for other products ... hasbro has a huge uphill battle to try a nd get it to use for the new movies the past few years ... i don't think they ever really got it back ...

... hasbro also stopped enforcing the cr/tm on the G1 ponies and now cannot use them without being able to protect them, opening them up for lawsuits (thus why we won't see many or any old G1's as official G1 names/colors/types) ...

in this case if hasbro doesn't put up a fight against someone infringing on their copyrights and trademarks they will lose their protections on their intellectual property, allowing anyone and everyone to pretty much steal their ideas from them ...

hasbro has every right to protect their ideas and properties that they have trademarked and copyrighted in order to preserve their protections on their own properties.

just because it's "one person" doesn't mean it's right to use someone elses ideas for their own personal gain. she could have designed her own characters and been fine. or sold them as "plush colored horses" and changed something about them and been fine ... but if you steal someone's ideas it's wrong ... be it another person, a corporation, a nameless/faceless artist on the internet, an author, a doctor, a student, whatever. using something that isn't yours for personal gain is just morally ethically wrong. why should it have to be defended?
 
yeah whitedove plushes are amazing and kudos that they go for that much ... but i know what it's like to have something stolen and used without my permission and see that pther person make a crapload of money off it ... one person or a corporation if it isn't yours, don't go there ... that's my stance ... hasbro is just trying to cover their butts and keep their protections in place ... and they chose white dove ... can't help that ... it's all over the internet ... it's how the cookie crumbles when you're the one who put your hand in the neighbor's cookie jar ...

Those are cases of trademark NOT copyright.  You own the copyright on your product, the trademark on names.  The people who made the bumblebee toy, didn't make a bumblebee transformer.  You keep both trademark and copyright if you continue using the names/product.  Copyright actually lasts for 70years after you stop making things.  You do not have to go around shutting down customisers to keep your copyright or trademark.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 06:47:21 PM
... there is no example to give ... BUT hasbro stopped enforcing their copyright/trademark on the transformer name bumble bee ... other companies picked it up for other products ... hasbro has a huge uphill battle to try a nd get it to use for the new movies the past few years ... i don't think they ever really got it back ...

... hasbro also stopped enforcing the cr/tm on the G1 ponies and now cannot use them without being able to protect them, opening them up for lawsuits (thus why we won't see many or any old G1's as official G1 names/colors/types) ...

in this case if hasbro doesn't put up a fight against someone infringing on their copyrights and trademarks they will lose their protections on their intellectual property, allowing anyone and everyone to pretty much steal their ideas from them ...

hasbro has every right to protect their ideas and properties that they have trademarked and copyrighted in order to preserve their protections on their own properties.

just because it's "one person" doesn't mean it's right to use someone elses ideas for their own personal gain. she could have designed her own characters and been fine. or sold them as "plush colored horses" and changed something about them and been fine ... but if you steal someone's ideas it's wrong ... be it another person, a corporation, a nameless/faceless artist on the internet, an author, a doctor, a student, whatever. using something that isn't yours for personal gain is just morally ethically wrong. why should it have to be defended?
 
yeah whitedove plushes are amazing and kudos that they go for that much ... but i know what it's like to have something stolen and used without my permission and see that pther person make a crapload of money off it ... one person or a corporation if it isn't yours, don't go there ... that's my stance ... hasbro is just trying to cover their butts and keep their protections in place ... and they chose white dove ... can't help that ... it's all over the internet ... it's how the cookie crumbles when you're the one who put your hand in the neighbor's cookie jar ...
Exactly. Companies. Not individuals handmaking bumblebee toys, large companies cranking out production lines of Bumblebee. I have no problem with Hasbro cracking down on knockoffs, but if it's one person handmaking the plushies, it's a jerk move.

the point being if they don't make a move to protect their ideas thant he BIG COMPANIES CAN move in to market their products against them ... so they are showing an active protection of their cr/tm'd ideas in order to preserve that ... if they didn't put their fot down and a big company came in and started making plushes than hasbro wouldn't be able to hold up the cr/tm in court and WOULD lose millions ... they have to actively use their protections to keep them ... and this is a highly note worthy artist infringing on their protections and they have decided to put their foot down to show that yes, they do want to continue their protections on their own ideas ...

it isn't that i'ts been lost to a small one off, but if they allow a one off to be making thousands and thousands of dollars of their protected ideas it's like a big red flag saying "we give up and here, anyone can use this" whichis exactly what happened with the bumblebee name ... the name was never used for a yellow/black transforming car, but the name was used and hasbro didn't fight and there fore they lost the protections and you can see all sorts of knock off products, just like you see with MLP, though that get's hairier in that you see more current gen knock offs than older gen ... which are still protected ...

it's a pre-emptive move instead of reactive move ...
 
as for "not using it" things have changed ... if you show lack of interest in protecting it, then it's a slippery slope in court to defend and you can lose your idea. and there's the issue of the infriger making THOUASANDS of dollars on ideas that aren't theirs ... a stolen idea is still stolen. and wrong.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: TokiBear on May 22, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
This type of attitude makes me a sad panda. When you start siding with the corporations, you start to lose your soul.

And I hate ^this type of attitude!  While WD does make absolutely amazing plushies... she is making thousands of dollars on these plushies... That is most likely why she is being targeted by Hasbro and frankly, I believe Hasbro has every right to protect their copyright.  Selling fan-art of any kind really is illegal regardless of how much you are making on that fan-art.  I definitely understand wanting to pay good money for great quality merch but that doesn't change the fact that it is illegal. 

If any of you saw your ponysana's out there being turned into custom plushies and being sold for thousands of dollars and you didn't get a piece of it, I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.  Just because Hasbro is a big corporation doesn't mean they don't have the same rights as all of us little guys.  Copyrights were put into place for a reason and it definitely wasn't so us little guys could make thousands of dollars off of someone else's ideas.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 22, 2012, 06:54:13 PM
No one is arguing that they don't have the right.  It's just a bit heartless to start attacking customisers out of the blue when you've said you don't mind and admired it (I mean they made a blank pony FOR customising) in the past.  Especially when the person isn't actually taking money from them, or claiming they are official or any of that. 

Disney once forced a childcare centre to paint over a mural that had disney characters in it.  Did they have the right?  Yes.  Was it right?  No.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 06:54:45 PM
It seems a little strange to me that so many people would argue on Hasbro's behalf on a forum with a thriving customs board, which are certainly no different from those plushies in Hasbro's eyes.   When you sell "Baby Rarity" or a Celestia painted to be Nightmare Moon or a sculpture of this or that pony, you are infringing just as much as this person was.   I hope Hasbro doesn't turn its fiery gaze over here.


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Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 06:58:40 PM
customizing is NOT infringing.

customizing is creating your own pony from your OWN idea or changing things to make an idea different, not flat out taking an idea that isn't yours and creating an exact replica of itand making a thousand dollars on it without paying royalties (like 'we love fine' in order to use those characters and likenesses.

a "baby rarity" toy/character has not been protected while a plush "hasbro my little pony rarity" is certainly protected.
 
was it right for the childcare center to use ideas that weren't their own in a mural without asking permission to use them? no. if they had asked permission to use the characters from disney and disney had agreed (as they have done elsewhere and actually provided the mural creation services themselves free of cost) there would have been no problem.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 22, 2012, 06:59:54 PM
Well, not everyone here is exactly pro-custom, but I'm not sure I'd consider plushies customs anyway... customs to me are redecorated plastic toys.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: PetiteTiger on May 22, 2012, 07:02:40 PM
MLP is Hasbro's IP, they have every right to crack down on these sorts of things however they see fit; be it turning a blind eye or doing something like this.  It might not seem like they're losing any money off this, but this is still a case of someone making a LOT of money off their IP.

Yeah, it sucks.  I'd be upset if I got a C+D on my pony customs.  But in making a profit off their IP illegally, I run that risk and I can understand where they're coming from.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 07:03:21 PM
It seems a little strange to me that so many people would argue on Hasbro's behalf on a forum with a thriving customs board, which are certainly no different from those plushies in Hasbro's eyes.   When you sell "Baby Rarity" or a Celestia painted to be Nightmare Moon or a sculpture of this or that pony, you are infringing just as much as this person was.   I hope Hasbro doesn't turn its fiery gaze over here.


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Personally? I've always known what I am doing when I sell fanart. I am well aware it is not legally right with US copyright law, and that at any given time the companies could tell me to knock it off and I would be forced to pull it all down and stop immediately. I would have to get a new "shtick" and that's okay.


But it's like stealing music- I understand the risk and am willing to take it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 22, 2012, 07:03:47 PM
No one is arguing that they don't have the right.  It's just a bit heartless to start attacking customisers out of the blue when you've said you don't mind and admired it (I mean they made a blank pony FOR customising) in the past.  Especially when the person isn't actually taking money from them, or claiming they are official or any of that. 

Disney once forced a childcare centre to paint over a mural that had disney characters in it.  Did they have the right?  Yes.  Was it right?  No.

There's a difference between Hasbro providing a blank and saying "make your own character" and someone  using one of Hasbro's already established characters to make money.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Iris Patch on May 22, 2012, 07:04:45 PM
Well, not everyone here is exactly pro-custom, but I'm not sure I'd consider plushies customs anyway... customs to me are redecorated plastic toys.


Which is funny, because in Pokemon collecting fandom, every handmade item is a "custom". I'm still getting used to how the term is used over here. :)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: saply on May 22, 2012, 07:07:59 PM
Well with customizing, Hasbro still makes that ~$5 USD gross profit on each pony sold as bait. Whether they've been altered or customized or not they're still official licensed Hasbro products.


When you buy an embroidery machine and yards of Minky, Hasbro doesn't really see a dime of it ^_^; I know I know, technicalities schmechnicalities, but I'm just sayin'.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 22, 2012, 07:11:36 PM
Well, not everyone here is exactly pro-custom, but I'm not sure I'd consider plushies customs anyway... customs to me are redecorated plastic toys.


Which is funny, because in Pokemon collecting fandom, every handmade item is a "custom". I'm still getting used to how the term is used over here. :)
Well, that's also just my impression...I could be wrong
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 07:12:52 PM
customizing is NOT infringing.

I really doubt that would hold up in a court of law. The pony mold designs themselves are Hasbro's intellectual property, so even if the character is new, you're using something of Hasbro's (the mold) to make a product that turns a profit.  Think about the fakie companies who reverse-engineer Hasbro molds for their toys--it's about the same thing, right?  Hasbro molds, new character designs.  And Hasbro certainly can (and sometimes has) gone after them.  (But it's kind of a moot point anyway, as Hasbro has the resources to be able to afford a prolonged court fight, while your typical customizer does not.)

At the very least, any pony custom based on a Hasbro-created design--G3 Mimic, grown-up G4 Sweetie-Belle, G1 Pinkie Pie, and, yes, Baby Rarity--is technically infringing on Hasbro's designs.  They do not suddenly become "new characters" when you make them in a new pose or turn them into an adult/baby/other generation.

I'm just saying people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 22, 2012, 07:19:50 PM
Ok say you make a G1 into a G4 or vise versa  or any other different gen. for someone as a gift no profit made or anything, it was just because they wanted something like that to have. Is that allowed or would that be considered infringement as well? I figure it doesn't hurt to know :)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 22, 2012, 07:23:52 PM
Quote
Yeah, people/companies who wish to protect or keep control of their own creations are so mean. : P
^^^^^ This.

It's not siding with the companies, it's pointing out that what white dove (and other people that sell their plushes) is essentially against the law. It is allowed to exist on the internet because Hasbro or whoever chooses not to go after the people who are doing it... but... with the exposure that White Dove was getting, it was only a matter of time before this happened.

It's like if I started to sell super mario plushes to the nintendo community. If I got popular enough, or if my plush of Mario happened to sell on ebay for over 3,000 dollars, I think nintendo might notice and shut me down.

The same thing happened a few years ago with this guy in the puppet making community. He used to sell muppet replicas (and really good ones, too) on ebay. And the jim henson company didn't really like that too much, and the replicas went away.

White Dove's plushes were beautiful, but what she was doing was still, unfortunately, against the law. :(

Quote
customizing is NOT infringing.

Unfortunately, customizing a pony to be a hasbro character IS infringing on copyright if you are making a profit on it.

Quote
Ok say you make a G1 into a G4 or vise versa  or any other different gen. for someone as a gift no profit made or anything, it was just because they wanted something like that to have. Is that allowed or would that be considered infringement as well? I figure it doesn't hurt to know visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I'm sure there are grey areas. Hasbro isn't going to come after someone for making a gift for someone. They're going to go after people who are profiting from their characters.
 
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 22, 2012, 07:24:09 PM
I was really hoping somebody would put a Sauron image up.  You never disappoint, LM!!

I love these kinds of threads, lol, it makes us all INTERNET LAWYERS!  DA DA DUM..  :)

I actually don't know what side I'm on. I can understand both sides.  Everyone always brings up the Disney daycare murals in copyright discussion. Those were removed for several reasons, as listed on Snopes.com, but most importantly the images suggested a business partnership existed between the day care and Disney. 

It's in a company's interest to protect its copyright and trademarks. Period. It doesn't matter if they make shoes or watches or plastic kittens or toy ponies etc.  And this is for all types of reasons..

If a consumer buys a product not knowing it's counterfeit and something were to happen such as maybe it's a toy and it broke and is a choking hazard, the company the counterfeiter stole from is then targeted and possibly could be sued for damages and liability.

If a creator makes money off licensed characters and trademarks, and uses them in a business form, it could imply a partnership such as the Disney example above.

If the company DOESN'T go after some people infringing on copyrights, those who have bought the rights (like H&M with their accessories or Basic Fun with their keychains) and licences could protest as that COULD BE a perceived loss for them.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 22, 2012, 07:25:02 PM
Ok say you make a G1 into a G4 or vise versa  or any other different gen. for someone as a gift no profit made or anything, it was just because they wanted something like that to have. Is that allowed or would that be considered infringement as well? I figure it doesn't hurt to know :)

If you don't make money on it and it is for your own personal use, I believe it is generally acceptable.  Example:  art students can do studies of masters and it is acceptable as long as they don't try to sell the study as anything more than what it is.  Same thing for making photocopies of printed material, as long as it isn't mass produced and it's for your own personal use, your fine.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: saply on May 22, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
Oh O: I learned something today too
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 22, 2012, 07:29:51 PM
That's the other thing I was going to say...just because Hasbro sold blank ponies to customize doesn't necessarily mean they're endorsing the resale of those customs or that any Hasbro property other than those blanks can be used for whatever.

It's my understanding that fan art for personal use or gifts tends to fall into a gray area and I would imagine depends on a lot of factors, although I've never heard of any company going after that kind of thing...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 22, 2012, 07:31:48 PM
Hasbro isn't going to go after a customizer that is selling ponies for 30 dollars. They're going to go after the most well-known plushie maker that is selling plushies for $400 - $3,000 dollars a pop.

And basically, if you don't advertise, but still make customs, who is going to know that you're charging for them? ;)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 07:33:10 PM
i am not in a glass nor, nor throwing stones. i do not make customs or plushes that provide my sole source of income. i don't make them at all outside of a few pictures of my own pony that aren't going to be sold to anyone for any price or ever leave my possession.

if you create a NEW character that is not hasbro controlled (not hasbro protected, different color/hair/symbol etc etc) that is not a hasbro controlled pony and is a custom pony that is not infringing on their contolled product, that is a custom. creating a cyber fizzy, or gothic mimic (both styles never released by hasbro) are ideas CHANGED to become original. yeah the base idea is there, but they are so changed as to be distanced from the original.  a plush twilight sparkle. can either be the HASBRO produced twilight sparkle or the fan made one ... hasbro makes plush ponies of some of their characters and i'm sure have been in the works on trying to produce more and trying to figure out the means/size/materials/etc of doing so. a plush of a hasbro controlled character is a dip into hasbro's pocket on anything they may choose to release in the future.

and yeah, they could crack down on ANYONE making customs of hasbro ponies. ponies, art, tatts, plushes, pictures, etc for money or other personal gain. that's part of the risk taken. they could see it as a small drop in the bucket ($100 bucks ever now and then maybe) and not worth the thousands of dollars to crack down on unlike someone that takes their property and makes thousands and thousands of dollars one ONE ITEM that they have no legal right to make ... it's a risk you take when you steal ... you get caught with the hot property you have to face the repurcussion ... don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

it sucks yes. but they can do what they want. it's still their property if you make a replica of a character they actively control out of fabric, clay, plastic, paper mache, sticks, what have you ...

it's drilled into your head in school, don't plagiarize, don't copy, don't cheat, because bad crap can happen, and here's some of that bad crap happening. the short straw was drawn and they were the unlucky one. and it isn't just one person, it's happened to others on different products at different times. they are made example of. like the child caught cheating on their test is used as an example and given the failing grade.
 
 
 
ETA: and i still say customizing is NOT infringing ... you can create as many beautiful horses as you want but when you sell them as YOURS, especially a character you didn't create, and is owned by someone else, THAT is infringing
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 22, 2012, 07:33:24 PM

Quote
customizing is NOT infringing.

Unfortunately, customizing a pony to be a hasbro character IS infringing on copyright if you are making a profit on it.

On the other side, taking a pony (or any other toy for that mater) and turning it into a 100% original creation is legally no different than a kid writing their name across the side of a pony. You are legally allowed to resell your property and there is no law saying it has to be in the exact same condition as when you bought it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 22, 2012, 07:38:09 PM
Quote
On the other side, taking a pony (or any other toy for that mater) and turning it into a 100% original creation is legally no different than a kid writing their name across the side of a pony. You are legally allowed to resell your property and there is no law saying it has to be in the exact same condition as when you bought it.

Yes, there are definitely a lot of gray areas. (gray? grey? I never know how to spell that) ... It's as I said earlier. They're not going to go after the small time customizers. People have been doing that for ages. They're going to go after the ones who are really profiting off of it... mainly the plushie makers. There are some big ones out there and they are making ALOT of money off of something that does not belong to them.

Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 22, 2012, 07:40:45 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for answering my question :) It might have been a silly one,but I figured it didn't hurt to know. :)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 07:43:34 PM
Quote
Ok say you make a G1 into a G4 or vise versa  or any other different gen. for someone as a gift no profit made or anything, it was just because they wanted something like that to have. Is that allowed or would that be considered infringement as well? I figure it doesn't hurt to know visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I'm sure there are grey areas. Hasbro isn't going to come after someone for making a gift for someone. They're going to go after people who are profiting from their characters.


Not necessarily;  it depends on the company.  Back when The Sims was still "Sims 1", people used to make custom "skins" for Sims characters to make them look like famous people or superheros or whatnot.  Despite the fact that they were distributed for free on fan sites, Marvel sent Cease & Desist letters to anyone who DARED create a skin of Spider-Man, Captain America, etc.   (DC Comics, on the other hand, didn't mind at all.)  I mean, Marvel wasn't even putting out any computer games at the time--you'd have thought they'd be happy that fans liked their characters enough to want to have them as Sims.


Closer to home, a customizer who made a custom pony of the winter queen from the first Narnia movie had . . . the movie company, I think? (some company, anyway) . . . go after her and demand that she remove all mentions of Narnia and the Queen's name from her eBay listing.


Trying to protect the highly lucrative and popular "Narnia characters turned into pony" market, I guess.



creating a cyber fizzy, or gothic mimic (both styles never released by hasbro) are ideas CHANGED to become original.


I believe it would still be considered Hasbro's intellectual property unless you could prove it was parody, in which case it would be fair use.   Again, see the example of the snow queen or whatever her name was from Narnia.  I would say turning her from a humanoid into a pony is a pretty drastic and major design change!   But the company still went after that custom.


Incidentally I wasn't replying to you specifically with the glass houses comment, but rather the tone of the whole thread.



I was really hoping somebody would put a Sauron image up.  You never disappoint, LM!!


Someone had to do it!  :devious:
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Tilas on May 22, 2012, 07:43:55 PM
Well with customizing, Hasbro still makes that ~$5 USD gross profit on each pony sold as bait. Whether they've been altered or customized or not they're still official licensed Hasbro products.


When you buy an embroidery machine and yards of Minky, Hasbro doesn't really see a dime of it ^_^; I know I know, technicalities schmechnicalities, but I'm just sayin'.

I agree with this totally. In the end, hasbro DID get a piece of the pie with a custom pony, even if it was a small chunk. With plushies, they don't. Also, as many said, customs are a tiny TINY peice of that money pie... plushies are much bigger.  So that might be a reason they don't hound customs nearly as much.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 22, 2012, 07:49:49 PM
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt.  They own the trademark on the names twilight sparkle, apple jack, etc.  If they wanted to go after someone for making and selling a custom my little pony with a picture on its butt they could.  Who they should be targeting is fakie companies for copyright infringement. They are the ones who compete on a larger scale.  But they wont because it is logistically too hard.  Instead they pick on someone who makes custom plushies.  Yes they are allowed to, but just because the customiser makes a lot of money doesn't then mean that hasbro couldn't bust any of us for using images that are mlp inspired.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 07:54:55 PM
Well, any company can sell a pony with a picture on its bum, Hasbro doesn't own the rights to that concept.

But if that pony is in a Hasbro mold, like the Dollar Store babies, or if it is not in a Hasbro mold but uses a MLP design (like a Lanard pony, but with Pinkie Pie's color scheme and symbol), then THAT is definitely infringing on Hasbro.


It is baffling that they never seem to go after fakie companies, even when they are pirating molds of the current generation.   There are tons of G3 fakies out there and I'm sure G4 fakies aren't far behind.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 22, 2012, 07:55:44 PM
Quote
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt. 

Crud. I guess I'm going to have to cancel my new hit show, "colorful ponies with pictures on their butts"... sigh. I guess I'll just have to go with my back up, "colorful bears with pictures on their stomachs".
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 22, 2012, 07:56:53 PM
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 22, 2012, 07:56:58 PM
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt.  They own the trademark on the names twilight sparkle, apple jack, etc.  If they wanted to go after someone for making and selling a custom my little pony with a picture on its butt they could.  Who they should be targeting is fakie companies for copyright infringement. They are the ones who compete on a larger scale.  But they wont because it is logistically too hard.  Instead they pick on someone who makes custom plushies.  Yes they are allowed to, but just because the customiser makes a lot of money doesn't then mean that hasbro couldn't bust any of us for using images that are mlp inspired.

I'm sorry, I disagree with this.  You can't own the copyright for the generic idea of colorful horses with pictures.  You can own the copyright to specific names/molds/art designs, etc.  Otherwise, it would be the same as saying that Disney owns the copyright to all animated mice who talk.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 22, 2012, 07:59:50 PM
Quote
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt. 

Crud. I guess I'm going to have to cancel my new hit show, "colorful ponies with pictures on their butts"... sigh. I guess I'll just have to go with my back up, "colorful bears with pictures on their stomachs".

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 08:03:57 PM
but still using the name in connection with it can insite a company action of "remove our name from it because we are not part of this and do not want any part of this if possible problems arise" ... and i KNOW someone mentioned that before ... yes, the idea is different, you turned it from human, to a pony, but they are still connected to it by name. some may be fine with that, others may not. because while the white queen was turned intoa pony, it still resembles the white queen in dress, etc. whereas my example of a cyber pony (sorry, i loves them so and they are ALWAYS the first customs i think of lol) ... the origianl g1 ponies are sadly kind of in limbo and up for grabs in a certain way ... protections only go so far when unused and undefended ... and they didn't wear super awesome fuzzy boots or have amazing hairfalls or such amazingly heartfelt handpainted works of art on their bums and their faces weren't expertly painted into joyful mad rainbows of pure perfection! ... and g1's were not g3's ... lots of changes, lessened restrictions, not totally okay to do, but it is a far cry from an exact replica plush of the homage pony that is still fully and actively protected and actively being used, whereas again the white queen had the human to pony change, but was still actively protected/used, royalties not being paid on the name use, the company could have said "hey, give us our royalty fee of how ever many hundreds or thousands of dollars and then it's all good" instead of saying "hey, yeah, could you just not use our name so we don't have to press legal matters?"  it's part of why "demon donkey" and "fun neddy lovy" ponies still exist ... just enough different and a different name ...:\

but the awesome plushes were 100% accurate ans same name ... dangerous territory ... like the lady and the tiger story. sure one door is a pretty lady, but one door has a ravenous tiger. you play the game you know the risks. it's 50/50. sooner or later those odds can backfire. bigtime
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: DazzleKitty on May 22, 2012, 08:09:42 PM
Quote
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt. 

Crud. I guess I'm going to have to cancel my new hit show, "colorful ponies with pictures on their butts"... sigh. I guess I'll just have to go with my back up, "colorful bears with pictures on their stomachs".
LOL!!!!!


I can see both sides of this but the artist and collector in me wants me to side with whitedovecreations. I also think Hasbro should be chasing fakie companies. I don't like them picking on one person who isn't making nearly much as Hasbro is.

BTW, I LOVE this person's plushies. I wish I could afford to commission her to make me a Twilight Sparkle or DJ Pony. And what I wish more is that I had her talent, LOL.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: kamakazee82 on May 22, 2012, 08:12:42 PM
yeah, i don't think anyone is arguing her talen or the pure win of her plushes at all. i gave her mad props all through this for that ... just the copyright/trademark thing :( not good

i so would love to have her make my ponysana but i can't afford those insane prices lol with all that skill, think of all the cool stuff she could do with her own ideas or helping people realize their own ponies, etc as plushes or making her own plush company! AND THEN HAVING HASBRO HIRE HER TO MAKE ALL THEIR PLUSHES! *dies* t'would be EPIC!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarFaerie on May 22, 2012, 10:35:21 PM
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt.  They own the trademark on the names twilight sparkle, apple jack, etc.  If they wanted to go after someone for making and selling a custom my little pony with a picture on its butt they could.  Who they should be targeting is fakie companies for copyright infringement. They are the ones who compete on a larger scale.  But they wont because it is logistically too hard.  Instead they pick on someone who makes custom plushies.  Yes they are allowed to, but just because the customiser makes a lot of money doesn't then mean that hasbro couldn't bust any of us for using images that are mlp inspired.

I'm sorry, I disagree with this.  You can't own the copyright for the generic idea of colorful horses with pictures.  You can own the copyright to specific names/molds/art designs, etc.  Otherwise, it would be the same as saying that Disney owns the copyright to all animated mice who talk.

Yep, you're right they can't copyright it. They have patented them though. (But I believe the patent has now expired)

Quote
Actually, hasbro own a copyright on colourful ponies with pictures on their butt. 

Crud. I guess I'm going to have to cancel my new hit show, "colorful ponies with pictures on their butts"... sigh. I guess I'll just have to go with my back up, "colorful bears with pictures on their stomachs".
LOL!!!!!


I can see both sides of this but the artist and collector in me wants me to side with whitedovecreations. I also think Hasbro should be chasing fakie companies. I don't like them picking on one person who isn't making nearly much as Hasbro is.

BTW, I LOVE this person's plushies. I wish I could afford to commission her to make me a Twilight Sparkle or DJ Pony. And what I wish more is that I had her talent, LOL.

Unfortunately it's very hard to act against the fakie makers because they are mostly in China which has very lax IP laws.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: HawaiianRain on May 22, 2012, 11:31:14 PM
Here's something I scraped off another site. I DO believe the not she was sent by DA staff was real. If you read through the post is names the same firm and who they represent. It's not pony related but still deals with the topic at hand.

Re: Infringement of SCRABBLE® Crossword Game Copyrights and Trademarks

Dear (Rackaroo owners):

We are counsel for Hasbro, Inc. (“Hasbro”), the owner of the copyrights and trademarks in the United States and Canada for the SCRABBLE® crossword game. Hasbro also owns the copyrights in all editions of the Official Scrabble Player’s Dictionary (“OSPD”), including the 4th edition (“OSPD4”). We recently became aware that you are making available on your website at www.rackaroo.com a game that you call “Free Online Scrabble.” In addition, you offer for sale on the iTunes Store a game called “Wordaroo,” with a free version called “Wordaroo Lite.” Both Rackaroo and Wordaroo include the OSPD4.

Rackaroo is nothing more than an illegal and unauthorized copy of the SCRABBLE® game and the OSPD4. While Wordaroo and Wordaroo Lite differ from Hasbro’s SCRABBLE® game, Wordaroo also incorporates an unauthorized copy of the OSPD4, and copies several key elements of the game including the look of the letter tiles, the point values assigned to each letter, and the use of seven tiles for each turn.

The SCRABBLE® game board, the rules of the game, and the OSPD are the copyrighted property of Hasbro. The SCRABBLE® game board and letter tiles also have source-identifying significance as trademarks.

Your unauthorized use of the SCRABBLE® game board, rules and OSPD constitutes copyright infringement in violation of 17 U.S.C. § 501. Your unauthorized use of the SCRABBLE® name, game board and letter tiles violates the trademark laws, including 15 U.S.C. §§ 1114(1) and 1125(a), by creating a likelihood of confusion with respect to Hasbro’s authorization or sponsorship of or association with your commercial activities and is also likely to dilute the distinctive qualities of the SCRABBLE® marks in violation of 15 U.S.C. §1125(c) and the anti-dilution laws of numerous states.

On behalf of Hasbro, we therefore demand that you immediately cease use of the SCRABBLE® trademarks and copyrighted material, remove the Rackaroo game from your website, and, for the Wordaroo applications (a) change the look and the specific letter-number combinations of the letter tiles, (b) change the number of tiles used in one turn from seven to some other number, and (c) remove the OSPD4 from the application.

Please confirm to me within ten days your agreement to the above. This letter does not purport to be a complete statement of the facts or the law and is without prejudice to Hasbro’s legal and equitable rights.

Sincerely yours,

Carin G. Reynolds
Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler LLP
1133 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10036-6710
tel: 212.336.2104
fax: 212.336.2277
[email protected]
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: cobalte on May 22, 2012, 11:43:07 PM
To be honest I think it was a matter of time before something like this happened, especially with how much money was being made. I'm undecided on whether it was morally "right" tho
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: ShannonInPonyland on May 23, 2012, 03:19:56 AM
I follow this girl on DeviantART, she makes wonderful plushies but they are awfully expensive (for me at least).
I find it strange that they told her to C&D considering Lauren Faust herself bought a plush from her only about a month ago...  :huh:
In a way I think it's unfair but mainly I think they do have the right to do it considering this girl is making a lot of money off of something that is copyrighted by Hasbro. Technically they can do something like this but I think they should only be able to have the right to tell her to stop making Hasbro MLPs (not OCs, etc).
Honestly it was just a matter of time before something like this happened since MLP is so big right now and all of these people are making plushies and making $500+ for them.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sonata on May 23, 2012, 03:31:14 AM
Plushie makers are doing WAY too much profit for Hasbro to let it go. The quality and accuracy of those ponies in specific are the best I've seen so far, so no wonder Hasbro is concerned. But it's not so bad, they just want to remove any copyrighted names and info about them being sold/will be sold. As much as I do have an issue with fanart and all that, we all do it and it's a much complicated issue than it looks, so I won't even go there xD
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Gingerbread on May 23, 2012, 04:27:45 AM
We all know WDs' plushies are amazing, so as has already been said why don't Hasbro do a little think and ask WD to design plushies for Hasbro to sell under their licence? It won't cost them overly much and would be a vast improvement on Hasbro plushies so far.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: starrypawz on May 23, 2012, 04:50:11 AM
Yeah I guess it's more of a money thing since she seems to get a lot for her plushies so Hasbro are getting wary:
A while back an artist I follow was making a  Dragon Age fan art based calender and the money raised was to got to a charity. The project got super popular. She ended up getting a C and D order from EA, even though it seemed Bioware were pretty cool with it as one of the devs was aware of the project.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 23, 2012, 04:58:41 AM
We all know WDs' plushies are amazing, so as has already been said why don't Hasbro do a little think and ask WD to design plushies for Hasbro to sell under their licence? It won't cost them overly much and would be a vast improvement on Hasbro plushies so far.

Hasbro is a huge, cold-hearted company. What they probably WOULD do is get a few plushes off of her, either through ebay or through other means, take them apart, steal the pattern, and then send those patterns to china for their workers there to make them. It's cheaper. And money is what it all comes down to, really. Not sparing some plushie maker's feelings.
Quote
I find it strange that they told her to C&D considering Lauren Faust herself bought a plush from her only about a month ago...  :huh:

Lauren Faust is not Hasbro. Back when I started playing and making levels for LittleBigPlanet (ps3 game), the company, Media Molecule, was spotlighting levels that contained copyrighted content left and right. There were mario levels, zelda levels, a full contra remake. These people were rewarded with highest honors for taking the work of others and making it their own.

When Sony (the big cold-hearted company) got wind of this, these levels weren't allowed to be spotlighted anymore, and some were removed, depending on which copyright holders were involved.

The main bullet point is: If you are making small change off of customizing and doing it on a forum like this, the copyright holder is (most likely) going to pass you by (although I saw the Grateful Dead force to shut down a friend's tiny restaurant in backwoods Pennsylvania because they used one of their song names for the name).... but...

If you are making THAT much money off of a plush (her BASE PRICE is 400 dollars and the plushes have gone up to over 3,000 dollars in some instances) and you are selling it on ebay and advertising all over your deviantart page, they're going to take action.

... I also noticed on her deviantart page that she's continuing to take pony commissions through her email. Does she understand what a Cease and Desist means? And what's going to happen to her when she breaks it? :O They'll take her to court!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Shaiyeh on May 23, 2012, 05:33:28 AM
she's making how much money off of copyrighted material?
I am not suprpised Hasbro are taking action.
While I'd like to side with the artist in such instances, I am a bit put off by the prices and can honestly say that I don't really care - she's probably made enough to live on for a fair while already.
I would totally side with her, though, if this was just for OCs that happen to be ponies.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: RandomPony on May 23, 2012, 05:50:59 AM
Oh wow! I mean.....WOW! This is just stupid!!! There her own creations! They really don't look there plushies, for there's look like bubble heads judging a pinkie pie I've seen. Or are they jealous her's look way better made then there's O.o
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 23, 2012, 05:52:33 AM
We Love Fine is different because it's got a deal with Hasbro to make the shirts.


Thinking about it, it whiffs even harder of the trolls to me. After all, they've been successful in taking the Youtube accounts down in the past. There's such a huge custom base for MLP, it really does feel odd they'd only go for one (albeit very profitable) artist.
It turns out it was Hasbro themselves that got the accounts taken down from YouTube not trolls because one user posted a video that shows a letter they got from Hasbro, stating it is them, right down to the typo in their company name. Regarding this though, I can totally see why they'd be upset but they're equally being generous enough to let the user keep the account.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Eskara1862 on May 23, 2012, 06:00:12 AM
I think we're missing the point here...  Hasbro did not send the letter to WhiteDove, they sent it to DeviantArt.  They did not tell WhiteDove that she can't make the plushes. The lawyers told DeviantArt to close down her account and DevArt worked out a deal where she could keep it if she removed all mention of selling, accepting commissions, or having sold her plush in the past. There is nothing stopping her from continuing to sell her plush on message boards, eBay, Etsy, or even making her own website and selling them there.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 23, 2012, 06:40:22 AM
Oh wow! I mean.....WOW! This is just stupid!!! There her own creations! They really don't look there plushies, for there's look like bubble heads judging a pinkie pie I've seen. Or are they jealous her's look way better made then there's O.o

But that's just the discussion point.  The material's may be hers and and she may have put in the man hours, but what it all really comes down to is that she did not create the character "Rainbow Dash" or the design for "Rainbow Dash."  Had she been doing her own made up character this might not have happened.  If she had changed something about RD's design and *not* called her plushie "Rainbow Dash" then we might also not be having this discussion.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Shaiyeh on May 23, 2012, 06:45:51 AM
Oh wow! I mean.....WOW! This is just stupid!!! There her own creations! They really don't look there plushies, for there's look like bubble heads judging a pinkie pie I've seen. Or are they jealous her's look way better made then there's O.o

But that's just the discussion point.  The material's may be hers and and she may have put in the man hours, but what it all really comes down to is that she did not create the character "Rainbow Dash" or the design for "Rainbow Dash."  Had she been doing her own made up character this might not have happened.  If she had changed something about RD's design and *not* called her plushie "Rainbow Dash" then we might also not be having this discussion.

this exactly.
The pattern may be her own creation, but the characters most certainly aren't - which is why I can't really care to side with the artist in this discussion.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Cool.Breeze on May 23, 2012, 06:55:58 AM
I have to say it's the amount she's making off the plushies that's driving Hasbro to do something about the situation (assuming it really is Hasbro law offices that wrote the letter).

I absolutely love the custom plush scene, but I just added up her sales from April 12th to May 18th, and she made $6346.49 in about ONE MONTH! That is a huge chunck of profit to be making while riding the coat-tails of Hasbro's success. If these were ooak creations, it wouldn't be a problem, but she also wouldn't be making that kind of profit, either. I'm on the fence. I think she's providing an amazing product for fans everywhere, and I'd die of happiness if Hasbro would actually release quality plush of at least the mane 6... but it IS Hasbro's intellectual property, this is how corporations roll ;P I do feel badly that we probably won't be seeing any more of her work, though :(


...Edited for a typo >.<
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Scraleos on May 23, 2012, 08:05:48 AM
Didn't someone go to the pony fair last year and sell plushies? At the Hasbro HEADQUARTERS? I admit though over $1000 is excessive for a plushie. They cost about £25 to make for me, and the stuffing and fabric is less expensive in the US. With prices that high, it'll get anyone's attention.

Also, some custom artists make $100's. Especially when they make ponies from the show, and make already exsisting ponies more show accurate. Why doesn't Hasbro go after any of them?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: josiekat on May 23, 2012, 08:24:09 AM
I'm going to have to say that I am siding with Hasbro on this one. That's all I am going to say about it. lol
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 23, 2012, 08:38:12 AM
Read the letter somebody posted about Hasbro going after company that made a Scrabble copy. The part about diluting. They HAVE to go after somebody, it's protecting their brand. And Hasbro isn't cold hearted. They're supporting THEIR workers, designers etc.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Moonracer on May 23, 2012, 08:38:54 AM
Hmmm... seems to me that Hasbro has recently gone on a serious, full-blown crusade against people who produce and sell fan work related to their properties.


First there was the ban on selling third party products at BotCon (which I have to admit are at times FAR better than what Hasbro produces), then the ban on selling commissions at the artist alley (also at BotCon) and now this.


Next thing you'll know, Hasbro's gonna go against fanfiction writers Anne Rice-style and then put a ban on making any fan art related to their products... ;)


I know a lot of people are siding with Hasbro, and for good reason, because what this girl did, in terms of the law, is theoretically copyright infringement (the characters she makes plushies of were not created by her). But there's another thing to it.


I'm not certain about English, but in Polish we have a lovely proverb, that someone's like "A gardener's dog, that won't eat its share, but it also won't give it to anyone else to eat it". Hasbro's just like a proverbial "gardener's dog": it won't let anyone sell fan stuff created off of their franchise, but at the same time they don't do JACK to improve the situation.


Just think about it - how much more money would Hasbro make, if they had this girl doing plushies and then releasing them under their brand? Or made a decision to make a collaboration with those third party companies and produce Transformers' related stuff that fans would be sure to buy?


But no, instead, like the pretentious little primadonnas, they pretend to keep their ears and eyes shut and go on a war with everyone.


Oh Hasbro... and I thought you knew that you don't kill off a hen that's laying golden eggs... :P :P
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: HawaiianRain on May 23, 2012, 08:42:28 AM
Didn't someone go to the pony fair last year and sell plushies? At the Hasbro HEADQUARTERS? I admit though over $1000 is excessive for a plushie. They cost about £25 to make for me, and the stuffing and fabric is less expensive in the US. With prices that high, it'll get anyone's attention.

Also, some custom artists make $100's. Especially when they make ponies from the show, and make already exsisting ponies more show accurate. Why doesn't Hasbro go after any of them?

Absolutely wonderful question. They should go after everyone. I would like to know how she was 'targeted.' There are just SO MANY pony plush makers, that just picking one is so odd. I've seen ebay, I've seen the auctions and yes I am part of the group that takes a risk as well but I would like to know why just her? Every dollar should count. Don't take on one, take them all down.

I don't get it...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 23, 2012, 08:50:07 AM
Didn't someone go to the pony fair last year and sell plushies? At the Hasbro HEADQUARTERS? I admit though over $1000 is excessive for a plushie. They cost about £25 to make for me, and the stuffing and fabric is less expensive in the US. With prices that high, it'll get anyone's attention.

Also, some custom artists make $100's. Especially when they make ponies from the show, and make already exsisting ponies more show accurate. Why doesn't Hasbro go after any of them?

Absolutely wonderful question. They should go after everyone. I would like to know how she was 'targeted.' There are just SO MANY pony plush makers, that just picking one is so odd. I've seen ebay, I've seen the auctions and yes I am part of the group that takes a risk as well but I would like to know why just her? Every dollar should count. Don't take on one, take them all down.

I don't get it...

We don't know yet that she is the only one targeted.  For all we know, they have a 100 cease and decist letters out right know.  She's just the first person to post publicaly about it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Opalescence on May 23, 2012, 08:56:14 AM
There'd be so many more justifiable targets... Like that fellow selling sandpapery 3D-printed copies...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 23, 2012, 08:57:05 AM

I'm not certain about English, but in Polish we have a lovely proverb, that someone's like "A gardener's dog, that won't eat its share, but it also won't give it to anyone else to eat it". Hasbro's just like a proverbial "gardener's dog": it won't let anyone sell fan stuff created off of their franchise, but at the same time they don't do JACK to improve the situation.


Just think about it - how much more money would Hasbro make, if they had this girl doing plushies and then releasing them under their brand? Or made a decision to make a collaboration with those third party companies and produce Transformers' related stuff that fans would be sure to buy?


But no, instead, like the pretentious little primadonnas, they pretend to keep their ears and eyes shut and go on a war with everyone.


Oh Hasbro... and I thought you knew that you don't kill off a hen that's laying golden eggs... :P :P


You might kill off the hen that lay the golden egg if the hen was laying golden eggs that belonged to you but you never get to see it. 

We don't know that Hasbro isn't making plans for better plushies.  They might be just about to release them or they might still be in the 'talking about it' stage.  Either way, if they think that they might be making more or better plushies than yes, these plushies could be percieved as a direct loss to the company.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 23, 2012, 08:59:30 AM
Didn't someone go to the pony fair last year and sell plushies? At the Hasbro HEADQUARTERS? I admit though over $1000 is excessive for a plushie. They cost about £25 to make for me, and the stuffing and fabric is less expensive in the US. With prices that high, it'll get anyone's attention.

Also, some custom artists make $100's. Especially when they make ponies from the show, and make already exsisting ponies more show accurate. Why doesn't Hasbro go after any of them?

Absolutely wonderful question. They should go after everyone. I would like to know how she was 'targeted.' There are just SO MANY pony plush makers, that just picking one is so odd. I've seen ebay, I've seen the auctions and yes I am part of the group that takes a risk as well but I would like to know why just her? Every dollar should count. Don't take on one, take them all down.

I don't get it...
They don't even go after the people making cheap knock-offs that clearly use Hasbro's artwork on the box.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 23, 2012, 09:02:12 AM
I knew this kind of thing could happen. The plushie makers are amazing but they /are/ playing with fire by selling products of characters that Hasbro owns.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 23, 2012, 09:04:13 AM
There'd be so many more justifiable targets... Like that fellow selling sandpapery 3D-printed copies...

I'm curious.  I don't know anything about the person your talking about.  *Why* do you think there is a more justifiable target?  Is he making thousands of dollars on what he is selling?


Btw, I'm not coming at this with the stance that I've never sold fanart.  I have in fact sold custom paintings of official mlp's.  But I've also never made over $100 at a time, or even in the same month.  But even so, if Hasbro sent me a letter, I would stop immediatly.  But to them I'm small beans.  $1000 dollars a pop is a totally different story.

Post Merge: May 23, 2012, 09:05:02 AM

Didn't someone go to the pony fair last year and sell plushies? At the Hasbro HEADQUARTERS? I admit though over $1000 is excessive for a plushie. They cost about £25 to make for me, and the stuffing and fabric is less expensive in the US. With prices that high, it'll get anyone's attention.

Also, some custom artists make $100's. Especially when they make ponies from the show, and make already exsisting ponies more show accurate. Why doesn't Hasbro go after any of them?

Absolutely wonderful question. They should go after everyone. I would like to know how she was 'targeted.' There are just SO MANY pony plush makers, that just picking one is so odd. I've seen ebay, I've seen the auctions and yes I am part of the group that takes a risk as well but I would like to know why just her? Every dollar should count. Don't take on one, take them all down.

I don't get it...
They don't even go after the people making cheap knock-offs that clearly use Hasbro's artwork on the box.

I do agree with this.  That they should go after.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Opalescence on May 23, 2012, 09:14:59 AM

I'm curious.  I don't know anything about the person your talking about.  *Why* do you think there is a more justifiable target?  Is he making thousands of dollars on what he is selling?



I have no idea how many of those things he actually sells but...


Call me biased, but I'd have to answer: because he's selling (imho) poorly made copies, as 3D printouts still are, of the G4 brushables that require zero effort unlike plushies or other traditional customs.
And he's using a name that sounds suspiciously familiar to Hasbro.
And on top of that, last time I've seen him advertising his stuff on certain imageboards, he even used official art like the MLP logo.
Hasbro couldn't be too happy about it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Vintergatan on May 23, 2012, 09:17:58 AM
Guys, as has been said previously on this page, the fakie makers that are blatantly ripping off molds and box artwork (I have one that even has Hasbro on it's hoof!) are mostly in China where US Copyright laws don't apply, so they can't do anything about them
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: MrPony on May 23, 2012, 09:34:32 AM
This is Stupid. Part of the reason this show has been so successful is the fan made goodies. And just to point it out again Hasbro is not making show accurate plush toys. There is obviously a market for them. Instead of attacking why don`t they hire the girl or at least buy the patterns she made. Totally lame.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 23, 2012, 09:42:53 AM
Hiring her is definitely a good idea which I hope they do in the end (probably won't though) but Hasbro also does have the right to go after her like they did.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Eternia on May 23, 2012, 09:46:14 AM
I wish hasbro would learn from this and make better quality things :/
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Prince Primbrose on May 23, 2012, 09:57:04 AM
It's sad that this artist got a slap on the wrist, but I understand Hasbro's stance, and she could have got off a lot worse. I'm going to keep my mouth shut on all the legal talk, as I am no expert there... But I have to say: When you're making hundreds, even thousands of dollars (per piece) off of a big company's characters and designs... Of course you're going to be told to stop. It sucks for the plushie maker- but it's not like Hasbro has swooped in to take away her fabric and sewing materials. She can still produce and sell under the radar. :/
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xkappax on May 23, 2012, 10:06:36 AM
Hiring her is definitely a good idea which I hope they do in the end (probably won't though) but Hasbro also does have the right to go after her like they did.

It's probably cheaper for them just to pretend to be a customer, buy one of her plushies, dissect it for the pattern, and send it to china so they can reproduce it for five cents a day. :(
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: aellos on May 23, 2012, 10:13:47 AM
Eh makes sense really. It's sad, and does suck, but it makes sense. It is their property.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sora on May 23, 2012, 10:25:24 AM
If I'm honest, I can understand where Hasbro are coming from on this occasion.

Normally, I'd side with the custom artist, but when you're making such a huge profit off a character that doesn't belong to you... Well, like others have said, it's only a matter of time. Her plushies are indeed amazing, but the characters still belong to Hasbro. It sucks but... That's the bottom line.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 23, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
The reason they left alone the people selling plushies at the Fair is that the majority were based on G1 characters, who they care very little about since they lost the trademarks.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: hyenacub on May 23, 2012, 10:48:14 AM
Well I guess it's time I said my two cents here lol

First and foremost, her plushies make me sick, they're that good.   LOL  That woman's got talent!

Secondly...Kudos to Hasbro for defending their copyright WITHOUT being total jerks about it.  So many companies are a-holes about this sort of thing.

Thirdly...I understand Hasbro's stance and agree with it.  I hope the plushie seller finds different ways to sell her amazing art that won't infringe on current copyright.  Maybe G1s or custom styles.  C: C: 
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: ZOMBIESohnoes on May 23, 2012, 10:58:49 AM
Even as an artist I side with Hasbro. If someone were making bank off of my work I'd be all over it in a heartbeat.


She is not a small time plushie maker that's putting these on ebay once in a while for some extra spending money, she is making a living off of Hasbro's characters. She's doing what she can to get more exposure for her auctions (internet radio, other sites, DA). Normally this would be a smart business move but not when you have zero rights to any of the characters and you are making that much money from them. This is why she is being targeted and why I am on Hasbro's side in this case.


If Hasbro was going after someone that made 3 in the last year I'd have a different opinion. But they didn't, Hasbro only stepped in when someone took it too far.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Opalescence on May 23, 2012, 10:59:33 AM
As someone pointed out in the thread dedicated to discussing her situation, she could simply move to OCs.
That's what plushie makers have been doing for ages until G4 came around, right?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 23, 2012, 11:19:58 AM
Doing OCs would be a great alternative. Hope she goes for that route.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Dragonflitter on May 23, 2012, 02:09:25 PM

Secondly...Kudos to Hasbro for defending their copyright WITHOUT being total jerks about it.  So many companies are a-holes about this sort of thing.


THIS!!!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Clementine on May 23, 2012, 04:22:40 PM
Hiring her is definitely a good idea which I hope they do in the end (probably won't though) but Hasbro also does have the right to go after her like they did.

It's probably cheaper for them just to pretend to be a customer, buy one of her plushies, dissect it for the pattern, and send it to china so they can reproduce it for five cents a day. :(

I highly doubt a company like Hasbro would do something like that. Looking at it from a similar way though I can see why hasbo might not want "show accurate" plushes being sold by fans, if hasbro were to attempt to improve their own plushes and make them closer to resembling the show than they could be falsely accused of stealing a pattern from one of the plush makers/copying them and it could stir up a lot of bad publicity even if they did infact create their own pattern simply because both hasbro and the fan strived to create something  close to the look of the show. Of course chances are I'm looking in to this to much :P
Still, I have to say I side with hasbro on this. I would be seriously mad if someone took something I created and started making thousands of dollars of profit from it without so much as asking my permission. Sure hasbro is a large company but does that give them any less right to defend their own characters and creations?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Betelgeuse on May 23, 2012, 04:39:47 PM
If Hasbro really cares about people doing this why don't they step up their game and make their own show-accurate, multiple character plushies? instead of going after a few people they should be worrying about boosting their profits.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 23, 2012, 04:40:53 PM
Like I said (and others too), maybe they areabout to release plushies...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: RedheadedBeauty on May 23, 2012, 09:03:20 PM
Her page is gone I guess da deleted it. How sad i wanted to check out her work to see what the fuss was about.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: cobalte on May 23, 2012, 09:17:05 PM
Her page is gone I guess da deleted it. How sad i wanted to check out her work to see what the fuss was about.

If you click on her gallery her works are still there, I guess just the plush pictures were removed from being featured on her main page.


ETA: Apparently according to her dA page someone did indeed report her to Hasbro. I would take it with a grain of salt, as always with these dramatic issues, but that is what's being said there.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 23, 2012, 10:32:07 PM
I was just wondering something else. Lets say someone made custom plushies and a customer asked them to do a character from the show. Would that be considered legal?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Shaiyeh on May 24, 2012, 12:23:17 AM
Well, if you normally don't do characters from the show , and don't get $1000+ for it, I don't think hasbro will come and bash you on the head. It's when you can make a living off of someone else's characters. At least they'd how I view it. I get commissioned to do fanart at times, but it's far from enough to live on.

Seriously, I'm sorry but I just can't let this go- I am so put off by the prices! That is soooo much profit! It's not that many working hours if she can make that much a month. I get the thing with eBay auctions because people will bid like crazy.
But even starting at such a price? They look great, sure, but how big are they even?
I seriously couldn't ask more than $500 for a commission. And that's far beyond my normal prices. I'm surprised she even get so many commissions with those prices!
As soon as it's on the brony scene, I guess.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Moonracer on May 24, 2012, 01:03:31 AM
DA closed the girl's page? What a shame...


Also, it just hit me: I remember there was once this girl on dA, who used to create chibi-style Transformers plushies (they were really adorable by the way :) ). Even though she was highly popular, and, from what I understand, she sold quite a lot of plushies to various people (also I remember seeing a photo of an Optimus Prime plush in Lauren Faust's dA gallery), her account strangely disappeared soon after her work became a hot selling item. Hmmm... makes you wonder.  :huh:
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: moonflower on May 24, 2012, 09:22:04 AM
I am on Hasbro's side on this one. I don't think it was just the fact that she was making FiM plushies, but the fact that she had a production line going and she was making lots of lots of them to sell for profit.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on May 24, 2012, 11:37:47 AM
Yep, don't try to "do it better than Hasbro".  :(  I wonder if DA had to remove her pages because she was announcing that she would still do commissions privately but not sell them on the DA site.  That would really grate Hasbro the wrong way, I feel. 
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Megans_Cousin on May 24, 2012, 11:41:05 AM
I don't think DA removed all of her pages. She just took the pics and commission slots off the first page and edited her journal.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Emfen on May 24, 2012, 01:16:09 PM
I just wanted to quote the artist;
Quote
I am hearing the complaint that my plushes sell for too much money.  I start my plushes on ebay for $75.00.  It is the fans that set the price. So you say" well only the bronies with a lot of money can buy the plushes".
She stated that here; http://whitedove-creations.deviantart.com/journal/Devious-Journal-Entry-283124098 (http://whitedove-creations.deviantart.com/journal/Devious-Journal-Entry-283124098)

It's the demand of good quality that makes the price sky rocket. And then famous pony related people bought her plush ponys, of course the price rockets even further!

Quote
customizing is NOT infringing.
Unfortunately, customizing a pony to be a hasbro character IS infringing on copyright if you are making a profit on it.
No not really, since you bought it you have legally right to do whatever you want with your pony. May it be burning it or customize it, you can claim the artwork design to be yours but not the actual design of the pony mold.
As an example was this man I read about. He bought an iphone and tinkered with it to make it work with his sim as apple had a deal where only one tele company may use the iphone for their sims in that country. However the guy found that the company having this deal was far too expensive, so with his skills  he unlocked the phone. This was something that annoyed apple and they filed a copyright claim, as this fella sold some unlocked phones. Apple didn't get the right in court, as the judge stated that when you buy something from a company for personal use it's not infringement. He was simply just making small modifies to his property and sold his property.


I was looking for a comment about her pattern but can't seem to find it, about hasbro buying her plush and stealing her pattern for their use.
Now that's a copyright infringement. You may say "but she did a pattern for copyrighted ponys!", it's a pattern yes and a pony one too. It's like lego, you could make a very unique design of a pony but with the same pattern you could also make copies of copyrighted characters. Depending on how you use the resourses it can be both. Hasbro have no right to steal her pattern as it is her design, they can claim copyright on WhiteDove's plush ponies of actual Hasbro design but not the pattern as in it's state as it's just pieces of lego.


In a way it's partly her fault as she could have prevented this issue by not putting her plushes on ebay, selling them for a set price and less publicly. In another way I feel with her as crafting a design that good takes effort and time! She spend about 16+hrs on a single plush, or so she claims making them very well made looking into every detail. Many of you seem to see her as some money greedy pony person, but I think not. She saw an opportunity and took it, just like those who bought lots of :muffin: Ponies recently on taobao and sell them for a higher price. Don't judge her.
I think hasbro should try to work out a deal with this artisan and great designer, she could actually provide some great stuff to the actual toy line as she is considered one of the greatest plush makers around now and hasbro could use some great talent too. I still think Hasbro should have emailed her first as she is the one making them and not dA, that way it could have been discussed in a different way.

I think that's about all I can put into this debate, I see this thing as a lose-lose at the time. Maybe they can turn it around to be a win-win? What if she got a special licence, for making plushes and some of the money would go to charity? There's a lot of things hasbro could do about this current situation, I personally would love to see a line of charity ponies if possible. But I think WhiteDove have been bashed and criticized enough, she pulled all information about commissions off her dA and only left contact info "for talk about ponies". She do not mention anything about commissions there. She isn't banned, she just decided to hide all content on the gallery front page except her journal.
Peace.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Elisto on May 24, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
Who's bashing her? Her plushies are amazing, and no one's criticizing her for selling them. Just pointing out that it's not legal, and even those others of us who've sold fan art acknowledge that. I've not even seen too much criticism of her prices, just that of course, with prices like that, it's not surprising Hasbro would care, and many of us would never pay that much, even acknowledging the work that went into them.

But I haven't seen much criticism or negativity toward the artist herself.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 24, 2012, 02:15:05 PM
Quote
customizing is NOT infringing.
Unfortunately, customizing a pony to be a hasbro character IS infringing on copyright if you are making a profit on it.
No not really, since you bought it you have legally right to do whatever you want with your pony. May it be burning it or customize it, you can claim the artwork design to be yours but not the actual design of the pony mold.
As an example was this man I read about. He bought an iphone and tinkered with it to make it work with his sim as apple had a deal where only one tele company may use the iphone for their sims in that country. However the guy found that the company having this deal was far too expensive, so with his skills  he unlocked the phone. This was something that annoyed apple and they filed a copyright claim, as this fella sold some unlocked phones. Apple didn't get the right in court, as the judge stated that when you buy something from a company for personal use it's not infringement. He was simply just making small modifies to his property and sold his property.

It isn't the customizing that is infringing but what it is being customized into that could be infringing. It is the same difference as selling a painting that is 100% original and selling a painting of Minnie Mouse on ebay, for example. In the second case Disney has every right to have ebay give the auction the banhammer because they own Minnie Mouse. Hasbro currently owns the characters from FIM and G3 (tho they lost the rights for the G1s) so it is infringing if you make a G1 Pinkie Pie whether they want to say anything about it or not.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Emfen on May 24, 2012, 04:24:12 PM
Who's bashing her? Her plushies are amazing, and no one's criticizing her for selling them. Just pointing out that it's not legal, and even those others of us who've sold fan art acknowledge that. I've not even seen too much criticism of her prices, just that of course, with prices like that, it's not surprising Hasbro would care, and many of us would never pay that much, even acknowledging the work that went into them.

But I haven't seen much criticism or negativity toward the artist herself.
I went on equestria daily a while ago  and some "fans" seem to consider her money greedy. The discussion's very rough and it just felt nasty reading some comments on the article about her, but most are very positive.
She could have just sold the plush for her regular price which is 75$(as she stated in a comment at deviantart) and not on auction.

I do understand the whole copyright thing, but I think there could have been an other way out. As I've been following the piratebay issue a few years, I think copyright laws need a general update, they don't seem to fit with how internet works. Being born into the generation where digital media is easily accessible kinda changes ones aspect, I'm a bit more free minded. Of course I've been victim of art theft but I figured it wasn't much of a bother as the person used it in an art article stating it was mine and ugly, but that's another story.
She may have done wrong, but hasbro never really told us "hey, we know you love ponies but we can't accept you doing this or this" so the market for ponies is quite blurry. I think if hasbro did go out with something like that on facebook or any other media the fans would have accepted it. I think it was an error by hasbro not saying anything, as they generally are very silent but a li'l info about their standing officially would have solved a lot.

It is the same difference as selling a painting that is 100% original and selling a painting of Minnie Mouse on ebay, for example. In the second case Disney has every right to have ebay give the auction the banhammer because they own Minnie Mouse. Hasbro currently owns the characters from FIM and G3 (tho they lost the rights for the G1s) so it is infringing if you make a G1 Pinkie Pie whether they want to say anything about it or not.
Copyright is a very difficult thing.
Not trying to dwell too much into it but I remembered once I saw a chair, the thing with this chair was that it was a designer one. It was featured on a show about design. The thing was It certainly was a Mickey chair, but on the other hand not. It was abstract with a yellow arch on one end of the leg, a red seat with a dot and one shape like a circle or square poking up at the back which was black. You could say it's mickey, but not too. What if someone does art in a similar way? It makes me look back at the pattern statement, it's abstract but if put together correctly it can replicate something desired and copyrighted.
Maybe I'm totally out of the water, but I don't see why they can't make a benefit of her work. Like many popular youtube singers getting signed?
And what if someone decide to sell a very abstract pony painting? I found this image and kinda thought about it. http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/021/7/6/abstract_mlp_wall_by_wear0n-d4n3sy0.png (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/021/7/6/abstract_mlp_wall_by_wear0n-d4n3sy0.png)
What if I'd paint a pony with simple shapes, and did it in a similar fashion to that chair? Copyright is a confusing thing and sometimes lies like a string before your feet.
It was foolish of her putting them up for auction, I'd be okay with it if she was doing ooak ponys but she should have put them on BIN. There's still other plush makers making ponies, including me.
(I hear hasbro still have the rights to the G1s, but I'm not too sure. Getting mixed messages, anyone who can provide actual info on that?)

Not gonna push my argument further tonight, as I'll need a rest.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 24, 2012, 04:30:03 PM
This attention is probably going to skyrocket her business.

Yes Hasbro owns the rights. That whole "lost the copyright" business was probably heard incorrectly, as Hasbro has a lot of product featuring G1. 


edited to add: They have to. Copyright and trademark laws basically require it.  Look at xerox and kleenex. They lost their brand name as a trademark.


It's much easier to go after somebody on DeviantArt than a faceless, nameless Chinese reseller/fakie producer/etc.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Gypsy on May 24, 2012, 04:36:19 PM
I just saw this, apparently Hasbro is on the warpath over 3rd party stuff, they went after some 3rd party Transformers manufacturers as well earlier this year. Which made no sense on one of them cause they could have made money doing nothing if they had just liscensed the partys awesome product.  If it gets popular and makes money they step right up and take notice apparently :( I haven't heard them going after any of the dollar store fakie producers?   Hugs, hope everything works out!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: sabathamk on May 24, 2012, 08:24:34 PM
I couldn't read everything, so I'm sorry if this has been mentioned, but I have to wonder...

I understand that what she was doing was infringing on copyrite material.  Those specific ponies were being used by hasbro.  I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: cesprins on May 24, 2012, 09:14:24 PM
Greedy?

She's making artwork. Trying to reduce artwork to just cost of hours and materials is cruel really. An artist spends their entire life learning and crafting. You are not just paying for her time during the particular pieces, but her lifetime of gained knowledge of craft and design and potentially any art training they've paid for. Furthermore, a piece's value depends entirely on the popularity and notoriety of an artist.

It is not excessive if there is a buyer willing and able to pay for it at the right time. Don't get mad just because you can't afford it. She isn't hasbro who can mass produce and cater to everyone, she is a single person. So if her work is good and desirable by many, it is expensive to narrow the audience.

Too bad Hasbro is shaking their finger at her. But, maybe that means they're noticed the value of show-accurate toys, eh?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: TokiBear on May 24, 2012, 09:35:29 PM
Too bad Hasbro is shaking their finger at her. But, maybe that means they're noticed the value of show-accurate toys, eh?

I know its been said multiple times in this thread, but one of the biggest reason Hasbro most likely went after her is because they can't lose their trademark for the FiM characters.  WD was making a lot of money from these plushies because there is such a high demand for show accurate ponies and failure to take action against her once they were made aware of her would cause them to lose their trademark.  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see more of this going on in the future.


Trademark law “places an affirmative duty upon a licensor of a registered trademark to take reasonable measures to detect and prevent misleading uses of his mark by his licensees or suffer cancellation of his federal registration”... failure to police the use of a mark by unauthorized users can result in a court ruling of abandonment.


I do hope that this may also mean more show accurate plushies because right now, I am refusing to buy any Hasbro plushies.  They are just awful...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Dragonflitter on May 25, 2012, 06:30:10 AM
I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?

I don't see the difference... whether she is making them 'to order' or making them 'in advance' does not have any baring on the fact that she is taking copyrighted characters without permission and making a business by selling them for thousands of dollars. Just because a friend or family member asked you to make something doesn't mean it's okay to steal property you have no right to.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: NoDivision on May 25, 2012, 06:38:26 AM
I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?

I don't see the difference... whether she is making them 'to order' or making them 'in advance' does not have any baring on the fact that she is taking copyrighted characters without permission and making a business by selling them for thousands of dollars. Just because a friend or family member asked you to make something doesn't mean it's okay to steal property you have no right to.
This.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: aellos on May 25, 2012, 06:51:33 AM
I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?

I don't see the difference... whether she is making them 'to order' or making them 'in advance' does not have any baring on the fact that she is taking copyrighted characters without permission and making a business by selling them for thousands of dollars. Just because a friend or family member asked you to make something doesn't mean it's okay to steal property you have no right to.
This.

That, and most of those 'to order' commissions don't go for thousands, but rather more like $50 dollars. Not much difference in the infringment category, but less obvious at least. DX
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 25, 2012, 08:02:20 AM
I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?

I don't see the difference... whether she is making them 'to order' or making them 'in advance' does not have any baring on the fact that she is taking copyrighted characters without permission and making a business by selling them for thousands of dollars. Just because a friend or family member asked you to make something doesn't mean it's okay to steal property you have no right to.

That's right. If a friend or family member or total stranger commissioned me to draw Simba or Rainbow Dash for them, I'd refuse to no matter how much money it was for. That said, I just saw her plushies and they truly are amazing. I'd love to be able to get her to make me a Cavy plush sometime.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Brandi on May 25, 2012, 08:35:30 AM
Although I do think her work is fabulous, I would have to agree with Hasbro that it is copyright infringment to make a huge profit off of making their characters into plushies. I kinda knew that it was only a matter of time before Hasbro stepped in on this..
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Stuntmang on May 25, 2012, 08:45:10 AM
I'm wondering ... was she making them, posting them, and selling them as posted?  Or was she taking commissions where people would ask her to make a RD plush for example?  In all honesty, if friends or family wanted me to make a plush of a certain loved character, and I made it and sold it to them (as per arrangements), I hardly see that as infringement.  Now, if I made them in advance (and in bulk) and posted them online as items for sale with certain numbers left and a waiting time for more, I can definetly see that as being a business that Hasbro should have every right to shut down.  Thoughts?

I don't see the difference... whether she is making them 'to order' or making them 'in advance' does not have any baring on the fact that she is taking copyrighted characters without permission and making a business by selling them for thousands of dollars. Just because a friend or family member asked you to make something doesn't mean it's okay to steal property you have no right to.
Who is losing money by her making these plushies?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Dragonflitter on May 25, 2012, 08:57:21 AM
You have said that multiple times in this thread, Stuntmang. And multiple people have answered you: it's not just about the money. The characters are designs that were thought up and copyrighted. They do not in any way belong to this artist. Being a fan of something does not give you the right to do whatever you want with that property. Property is not owned by the masses, in our society. It is owned by the people who have paid and placed a copyright on it through official channels.

And it has also been said in this thread already that if Hasbro does not defend their property by going after people who use it without permission, it weakens their claim on the copyright. That is just how our society works at this time.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 25, 2012, 09:02:40 AM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 25, 2012, 09:10:19 AM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.
Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 25, 2012, 09:23:35 AM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.
Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 25, 2012, 09:32:40 AM
I went and saw her plushies and WOW :drunk: ! Her quality is something like you see at a Walt Disney Store or a Disney store in the mall..Simply astounding. Don't get me wrong I feel bad for her but, no wonder Hasbro went after her. That and add the fact of the money she was making. This has probably been asked before but due to recent events I wonder if customs ponies will ever be taken under consideration to watch by Hasbro (even though they seem not to have a problem with them at the moment). Personally I hope not, but what if you have someone that orders a custom pony painted in their favorite football teams color and logo or fav. cartoon character ect. ?  How can you protect yourself or can you, or are you better off just not doing it?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 25, 2012, 09:40:54 AM
I went and saw her plushies and WOW :drunk: ! Her quality is something like you see at a Walt Disney Store or a Disney store in the mall..Simply astounding. Don't get me wrong I feel bad for her but, no wonder Hasbro went after her. That and add the fact of the money she was making. This has probably been asked before but due to recent events I wonder if customs ponies will ever be taken under consideration to watch by Hasbro (even though they seem not to have a problem with them at the moment). Personally I hope not, but what if you have someone that orders a custom pony painted in their favorite football teams color and logo or fav. cartoon character ect. ?  How can you protect yourself or can you, or are you better off just not doing it?


I don't think that is likely to happen.  What you are talking about is someone making up their own character and just using the toy which they have fairly bought as a base.  As has been pointed out,  Hasbro even encourages this seeing as they sell blank ponies.  For goodness sakes,  they are running a "design a pony" contest.  The difference is the use of the characters:  Rainbow Dash, Twilight Sparkle, Rarity, etc.  Those belong to Hasbro.


edited to add:
Ah, wait I see what you mean.  Would other companies go after you if you, say, used their mascot as inspiration for a custom and even gave it the same name?  I think it is unlikely but it depends on how high profile you are, whether it would ever come to their attention, and whether you were making loads of profit from it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 25, 2012, 10:18:52 AM
Personally I think that would be risky business also.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 25, 2012, 10:27:18 AM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.
Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
They just haven't been caught yet. YouTube can't catch every video the minute they go up.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: JoshsPonyPrincess on May 25, 2012, 11:03:30 AM
Hasbro is jealous that they can't make a plushie as cool as her - LOL.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Snapdragon on May 25, 2012, 11:24:33 AM
I've said it elsewhere, but the hate this woman is getting is unreal. It seems to me, most people (on other sites) don't care as much that she's making buttloads of money, but that she dares to be egotistical while doing so. And I can't help but think of ANOTHER well-known plushie maker, who has a huge ego, but isn't ever called out to this extent. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he's male and it's a ton of dudes calling White-Dove out, hmmmmmm? :rolleyes: Disgusting.

But back on topic, I can see where Hasbro is coming from - as much as I hate to say it, Hasbro will probably sit up and take notice if someone is selling thousands of dollars of fan-made merch every month, and they aren't getting a cut of it. It's just good business sense - don't waste lawyer money going after people making $5,10,20 in profit, but go after the people who are making BIG bucks from your intellectual property. And I guess, before now, there were no big bucks in the fandom, so we never really had this problem. I hope White-Dove doesn't have to stop making plushies entirely though, I really like them! :( Not that I could ever afford them, of course...
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 25, 2012, 12:35:32 PM
I've said it elsewhere, but the hate this woman is getting is unreal. It seems to me, most people (on other sites) don't care as much that she's making buttloads of money, but that she dares to be egotistical while doing so. And I can't help but think of ANOTHER well-known plushie maker, who has a huge ego, but isn't ever called out to this extent. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he's male and it's a ton of dudes calling White-Dove out, hmmmmmm? :rolleyes: Disgusting.

But back on topic, I can see where Hasbro is coming from - as much as I hate to say it, Hasbro will probably sit up and take notice if someone is selling thousands of dollars of fan-made merch every month, and they aren't getting a cut of it. It's just good business sense - don't waste lawyer money going after people making $5,10,20 in profit, but go after the people who are making BIG bucks from your intellectual property. And I guess, before now, there were no big bucks in the fandom, so we never really had this problem. I hope White-Dove doesn't have to stop making plushies entirely though, I really like them! :( Not that I could ever afford them, of course...

Of course, you know the irony is I'm sure she could start making original characters and be ok with Hasbro but she probably wouldn't make anywhere near the money she is making now.  All of the hype is for show accurate ponies not original characters!  I wonder if people would be willing to pay as much for her to make their personal pony personas/avatars?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 25, 2012, 12:47:35 PM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.


Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
They just haven't been caught yet. YouTube can't catch every video the minute they go up.
if you do a search you will see that alot of the epidoes on youtube have been on there for like 8 months to a year or longer.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Jenn77 on May 25, 2012, 12:52:40 PM
Thanks for replying Sunset and Koudoawaia.. 

 Well hopefully things will get better for White Dove, I too don't think she should be getting the hate she is getting and as for the price of her work I think it was stated earlier in the topic that she started out at 75$ on ebay and the bidders are the ones that shot it up. Maybe she might not charge as much for personas/avatars and OC plushies. Maybe even older gen ponies or does Hasbro still have the rights to them,because that has been up for debate from what I have seen. I am not sure but maybe its a idea that should be suggested to her (if it hasn't been already) for her to do that way she can still make some money and not be under fire from Hasbro?Just tossing my two cents out. :O)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 25, 2012, 12:53:58 PM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.


Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
They just haven't been caught yet. YouTube can't catch every video the minute they go up.
if you do a search you will see that alot of the epidoes on youtube have been on there for like 8 months to a year or longer.
I often see videos get removed after about 2 years but it's copyright infringement nonetheless. People seem to ignore the yellow box at right warning not to upload content they don't own. It's surprising that Hasbro doesn't go after them more quickly but they're probably just busy maintaining their business.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: sabathamk on May 25, 2012, 01:05:15 PM
So... looking at this... what is then considered legal and not infringement if you'd want to make something show accurate?  Gifts?  Just for personal?  If you can't make it yourself, then how would you get one since asking someone to make one for you would be like asking them to do something illegal?  I'm just trying to clarify since I don't make and sell anything but have been told that I should by family and friends (I've already said to them that I'm not doing cakes though since I found out that that is illegal here too unless you are making them in an industrial kitchen... sigh... although bake sales are fine for some silly reason).  It is a craft, and people are paying for the craft, but it is also of a trademarked item... this makes the lines a little blurred.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 25, 2012, 01:17:30 PM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.


Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
They just haven't been caught yet. YouTube can't catch every video the minute they go up.
if you do a search you will see that alot of the epidoes on youtube have been on there for like 8 months to a year or longer.
I often see videos get removed after about 2 years but it's copyright infringement nonetheless. People seem to ignore the yellow box at right warning not to upload content they don't own. It's surprising that Hasbro doesn't go after them more quickly but they're probably just busy maintaining their business.
there is no question it is copyright infringment, it just seems hasbro has better things to do than chase after people who post videos on youtube.
also everyone read this.
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/-xc1WMua3Sk (http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/-xc1WMua3Sk),


[link removed ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]


http://innovationlawblog.org/2011/07/peanuts-and-ponies-and-parodies-oh-my/ (http://innovationlawblog.org/2011/07/peanuts-and-ponies-and-parodies-oh-my/)

http://www.danielnyegriffiths.org/2011/09/friendship-is-money-ponies-internet.html (http://www.danielnyegriffiths.org/2011/09/friendship-is-money-ponies-internet.html)


what the person doing the plushes or anything to do with my little pony needs to do is pick up the phone call hasbro and work out a licencing agreement with them, it would be like, let me make cool pony plushes and i will give you 10 or 20 percent, and i bet hasbro would be fine with that! look on other sites at all the official licence pony things people are doing, it is not hard to become licenced to sell ponies!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarSwirl05 on May 25, 2012, 02:14:00 PM
it seems hasbro is ok with it as long as the people doing it do not claim to own my little pony and give hasbro credit. hasbro lets it happen as a form of free advertising like the videos on youtube.


Not exactly. Numerous episdoes got taken down from YouTube by a copyright claim from Hasbro themselves. Even the commentary videos are getting hit.
but they are not taking all of them down. the ones that say"for entertainment purposes only,i do not own my little pony hasbro does" those stay up.
They just haven't been caught yet. YouTube can't catch every video the minute they go up.
if you do a search you will see that alot of the epidoes on youtube have been on there for like 8 months to a year or longer.
I often see videos get removed after about 2 years but it's copyright infringement nonetheless. People seem to ignore the yellow box at right warning not to upload content they don't own. It's surprising that Hasbro doesn't go after them more quickly but they're probably just busy maintaining their business.
there is no question it is copyright infringment, it just seems hasbro has better things to do than chase after people who post videos on youtube.
also everyone read this.
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/-xc1WMua3Sk (http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/-xc1WMua3Sk),


[ (http://www.hasbro.com/mylittlepony/en_US/2012/02/important-news-for-plushie-creators-on.html)link removed ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]


http://innovationlawblog.org/2011/07/peanuts-and-ponies-and-parodies-oh-my/ (http://innovationlawblog.org/2011/07/peanuts-and-ponies-and-parodies-oh-my/)

http://www.danielnyegriffiths.org/2011/09/friendship-is-money-ponies-internet.html (http://www.danielnyegriffiths.org/2011/09/friendship-is-money-ponies-internet.html)


what the person doing the plushes or anything to do with my little pony needs to do is pick up the phone call hasbro and work out a licencing agreement with them, it would be like, let me make cool pony plushes and i will give you 10 or 20 percent, and i bet hasbro would be fine with that! look on other sites at all the official licence pony things people are doing, it is not hard to become licenced to sell ponies!


This is the video confirming Hasbro's behind removing of FiM episodes and apparently they've gotten some fan sites taken down as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq9k9uEpEm8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq9k9uEpEm8)
I'm not so sure they'd be as kind to make a deal but it could work but  the deviantART user should just take commisions of what people want to see as a plushie that isn't a character from FiM like fill out a little form thing saying body color, hair color, eye color, type of pony, etc.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 25, 2012, 02:23:52 PM
I have contacted hasbro by email to see how they would work out a licencing deal on plushies or anything else(there are tons of licensed items being made right now so it should not be too hard! , it might take me a few days to get an answer . if I don't hear back from them I will give them a call.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 25, 2012, 06:37:51 PM
I've said it elsewhere, but the hate this woman is getting is unreal. It seems to me, most people (on other sites) don't care as much that she's making buttloads of money, but that she dares to be egotistical while doing so. And I can't help but think of ANOTHER well-known plushie maker, who has a huge ego, but isn't ever called out to this extent. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he's male and it's a ton of dudes calling White-Dove out, hmmmmmm? :rolleyes: Disgusting.

Oh it is simpler than that. Money brings out the ugly. They are disappointed they can't afford one so they are whining like a kid who's mommy wouldn't buy them what they want. Either that and/or they are hoping they can shame her into selling them for less and they know that tactic won't work with the other person.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: SurfStar on May 25, 2012, 06:47:12 PM
Hmm. I know that she does start her auctions at $75, however, for me to get a decent sized plushie of my persona through her commissions (I looked at them) would have cost me upwards of $400. Just sayin. I don't begrudge her that time/effort and they are gorgeous plushies. However, it was certainly out of my price range even as a custom commission.

Edit: Though I do feel bad about the drama this seems to have stirred up for her.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mlpfan on May 26, 2012, 06:08:27 AM
this is copied from equestriadaily
Corrections and Updates Regarding WhiteDove and Hasbro


SUPER IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION/UPDATE: In a statement we have received from WhiteDove herself, she has asked us to clarify that Hasbro has only contacted DeviantART and asked them to ask her to remove her commission prices. Nothing else has occurred, heavily implying Hasbro is content to pursue the barest minimum of legal actions for all the reasons listed below. A Lyra-approved thumbs up to them.


Earlier this week, Equestria Daily reported on Hasbro's Request of takedown against WhiteDove's DeviantART plushie commissions. The article erroneously cited trademark law as an explanation for Hasbro's actions.

Trademark law does require vigorous defense in order to maintain the holding: it's "use it or lose it", and very very harsh. But it would only apply in this instance if WhiteDove were to place official MLP logos on her work, or were to otherwise claim she was selling official merchandise. This is not the case. Therefore, copyright law applies instead. A copyright is issued at the creation of an intellectual property and granted to the legal entity with ownership of that creation without them having to do anything. It does not need to be defended in order to be maintained.

However, failure to defend your copyright voids an important protection in the event of a large-scale infractions. Namely, any lawsuit resulting from such an event would be limited in scope to the damages incurred by the copyright infringement. If Hasbro continues to actively defend their copyright, then they are entitled to seek the value of a license the franchise (in any and all endeavors), instead - an estimated cost difference of $100,000,000. The true figure may be more or less, but it gives you an idea of how much less effective a deterrent such a lawsuit would be to potential rivals.

Regardless of the motivations behind the cease and desist, WhiteDove would be able to retain her ability to sell plushies if she acquires a license to market products from Hasbro. Since the initial article ran, multiple helpful bronies have suggested this to her on her DeviantART profile, and she has declared in the comments section her intention to seek such a license. We would like to wish her good luck.

A special thank you to superpony and legal expert Anarion for contacting me with clarifications and helping to ensure Equestria Daily does its part not to spread misinformation.

Edit/Addendum: It turns out that Hasbro actually claims Trademark over each and every individual character. This means that Hasbro is motivated on both sides of the spectrum to act in many individual cases, as failure to do so would not only cost them millions, but potentially lose their ownership over Twilight Sparkle or her friends. The long and short of it is that this situation is massively, massively complicated, and anyone who commissions FiM works or is considering it should take this information into their calculations.

Note: White Dove did not recieve a Cease and Desist directly from Hasbro.  Deviant Art asked her to remove the plushies after being contacted themselves.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: TokiBear on May 26, 2012, 06:43:21 AM
Glad to hear she is going to try to get a license from Hasbro!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: lizstaley on May 26, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Lovely plushies, but at least they aren't demanding that she not make them any more. They just don't want her to sell them through DA. She could make a website of her own or go to Ebay, or just get people to email her.

Or Hasbro should hire these super-awesome plush makers on to work for them!
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Wardah on May 26, 2012, 08:18:42 AM
I hate to sound stupid but wouldn't mentioning the characters are trademark to Hasbro cover at least the trademark side of the issue?
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Koudoawaia on May 26, 2012, 08:30:18 AM
Only if someone wasn't making a profit off of said characters.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 26, 2012, 10:36:34 AM
Does anybody have any thoughts about what EqD posted about the issue?

Quote
Trademark law does require vigorous defense in order to maintain the holding: it's "use it or lose it", and very very harsh. But it would only apply in this instance if WhiteDove were to place official MLP logos on her work, or were to otherwise claim she was selling official merchandise. This is not the case. Therefore, copyright law applies instead. A copyright is issued at the creation of an intellectual property and granted to the legal entity with ownership of that creation without them having to do anything. It does not need to be defended in order to be maintained.

[link removed ~ many thanks ~ hathorcat]

I wonder if cutie marks are being treated as logos in this case...? I'm not sure how (or if) they're registered. I am still a very interested (and poorly educated) spectator of this whole thing. ;)
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: mimitchi33 on May 26, 2012, 02:32:55 PM
Those plushies look almost like they could be official ones! She does a great job creating them! It's sad to hear that she has to take down the prices. They might have been expensive anyways....
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Emfen on May 26, 2012, 05:31:06 PM
Regardless of the motivations behind the cease and desist, WhiteDove would be able to retain her ability to sell plushies if she acquires a license to market products from Hasbro. Since the initial article ran, multiple helpful bronies have suggested this to her on her DeviantART profile, and she has declared in the comments section her intention to seek such a license. We would like to wish her good luck.
I hope she does get a licence, she deserves one with the quality of the product she makes. And hasbro could use a talent like that.

Hasbro is jealous that they can't make a plushie as cool as her - LOL.
That's not a valid argument. :(
Hasbro had to defend their property and I'm cool with that, it's their brand after all. Their plush toys may not be of the same quality as WD but still, it's their brand and they got the rights to it and it could have been worse than just a C&D. I'm not even going to argue further about that.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: StarFaerie on May 27, 2012, 05:08:45 AM


I wonder if cutie marks are being treated as logos in this case...? I'm not sure how (or if) they're registered. I am still a very interested (and poorly educated) spectator of this whole thing. ;)

List of Hasbro MLP trademarks http://s90690880.onlinehome.us/trademarks/hasbromlplive.html They've trademarked the names of the mane 6.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Sunset on May 27, 2012, 07:47:50 AM


I wonder if cutie marks are being treated as logos in this case...? I'm not sure how (or if) they're registered. I am still a very interested (and poorly educated) spectator of this whole thing. ;)

List of Hasbro MLP trademarks http://s90690880.onlinehome.us/trademarks/hasbromlplive.html They've trademarked the names of the mane 6.

This may be a little off topic, but did anyone else notice that Hasbro has put in "A first request for extension of time to file a Statement of Use has been granted. dated 4-5-12"  for the name Amberlocks?  Interesting....
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: tornadoe on May 27, 2012, 08:36:43 AM
this is absurd. Hasbro shouldn't be trying to stop her, they should be employing her as she clearly has a talent and is well sought after
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on May 27, 2012, 08:42:05 AM
http://whitedove-creations.deviantart.com/#/d517aso Looks like a lot of this is simple misinformation. Not sure if this has been linked already.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Dragonflitter on May 27, 2012, 08:18:20 PM
Interesting! I'm going to post her journal entry here so people don't have to click the link to read it (plus some public places block DA, I know).

Quote
It is time to clear up all the misinformation about what is going on.


1.  I NEVER RECEIVED A C&D,  a C&D is an official document from Hasbro.

2.  I NEVER received anything from Hasbro, I was never contacted by Hasbro

3.  Hasbro contacted DA and DA ask me to remove my commission prices, ONLY

4.  I removed the Hasbro names of my own free will, I was not ask to do that

5.  I was not asked to stop making pony plushies

6.  Hasbro and DA have been very good about this

7.  No legal action was taken againest me


This has gotten way out of hand, please pass on these FACTS and nothing else

Thank you,
Whitedove
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: xeevee on May 27, 2012, 08:29:21 PM
I am glad that was all cleared up.  It didn't sound like something Hasbro would do to tell you the truth.  Everyone involved has appeared completely reasonable by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Hasbro is going after a pony plushie maker on DA
Post by: Bergamot on May 28, 2012, 08:31:59 AM
Thanks for sharing, Dragonflitter! I am glad that the artist has done a bit to clear the smoke; the original post had everybody all kinds of confused. This makes a whole lot more sense.
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