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TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: ColdRuru on April 04, 2018, 11:05:44 PM

Title: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 04, 2018, 11:05:44 PM
Hi!
I've bid on two ponies from an US vendor and when I asked for combined postage, the vendor let me know that he cannot do it as they was "import charge" from ebay global shipping program. I take a look, as THIS WASN'T notified on the add when I bid (or I wouldn't have do it) and they ask me $18 import charge plus double shipping price.
I explained to the vendor I'm not OK with it as I'm under $100 of pony value and it mean no custom, so I don't see why I would pay to ebay their abusive charge plus too much on shipping.
I've asked if we can set payment off ebay via paypal (so we are protected) and if I can pay normal shipping price and he sent me the items via regular mail.
But I'm affraid he said no, at it can sound fishy? I've explained the whole thing clearly and my usual experience with US.
What should I do? I don't want to cancel but I don't want to pay abusive and unjustified fees.
Thanks for you help.


[moving to TS ~Kiwi]
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2018, 12:57:56 AM
Unfortunately this is how the Global Shipping Program works. I don't know whether the seller is even aware of all these charges because as far as I understand it, they've just listed the auction and it's either automatically (or it sounds like, deliberately) defaulted to the system whereby they send the parcel to the Global Shipping Centre in Kentucky for dispatch overseas.

This is one of my main bugbears with the GSP. You're absolutely right about the fees being 'abusive' as you put them. I don't know what import duty is like for you as a rule, but there have been several ponies I haven't bid on over the last couple of years because the projected import duty being estimated by the website are up to 3x as much as the actual fees charged at the border would be.

Add to this the fact they repackage at Kentucky to make the parcel as cheap for them as possible, then it's really clear that all ebay see in this is a chance to make more profit out of international buyers. Their repacking often means removing packaging material that protects items. And finally, Ebay don't actually care if the item is delivered to a person. I asked them about this once after the courier left a package under a bush in the rain, and they basically said it wasn't their problem as as far as they were concerned it had been delivered, even if not signed for.

I think it's also true that combined shipping cannot be done with the GSP. I did hear of someone managing to get it once, but I don't know how it works and I've never managed to. So if a seller is using the Global Shipping, expect to pay separately for all of the items and then the additional custom charge set by ebay on each of them as well as the postage.

It's a disgusting system. If your seller was willing to negotiate around it, then you might be in luck, but it doesn't sound as though he is. Unfortunately Ebay will just tell you that those are justified charges with their system. Your only choices really are to pay the amounts or ask the seller to cancel and relist :/

I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this. Ebay became a lot less pleasant for international buying when they started using this system.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 01:53:17 AM
I agree with you Taffeta,
The problem is that I know it's not the seller fault BUT I wouldn't have bid if I knew.

Things it's NOT notified on the listing that it will be shipped via the Ebay Global Shipping, it was just written " International Priority Shipping" It's when I came to cheeck out & pay that the charges did appears.
I NEVER EVER buy or bid if I see this program. That's why I'm angry it popped after I won the items :cry:
Because now I want them but I do not want to let ebay stole my money :mad:

Thanks for your reply, I hope the seller will let me pay out of ebay.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2018, 02:06:16 AM
It's really misleading sometimes. I've seen the same on auctions. I tend to look out for "No import duties on delivery!" as a red flag for GSP flying under the radar. It sucks and I totally sympathise with your feelings. I've seen ponies that might cost £20 to import to the UK normally with estimate import duty prices of £100 before now, so the whole system sucks.

Good luck with your seller. Maybe someone in the US from here might help you if there's no other option, and get the seller to ship to them and then they ship to you.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 02:16:59 AM
I would be curious to know how they calculate their "charge" because none of the ponies I bid for, separately or combined values are enough to me to pay any custom. If now each time when a pony cost $10 or $20 we have to pay more $5 or $10 fees, it become complety out of control :lookround:
I never tryied to avoid the customs, it happened to me and I did pay like everyone, but it was for values that are taxable.

So yes I hope to find a way, I'm waiting of reply but I thinks it's gonna be for tonight as the seller must sleep now.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: reddsetgogirl on April 05, 2018, 05:46:36 AM
The Global Shipping Program is awful and benefits only Ebay.  I've had items sent well packaged only to have them remove all the protective wrap and have the item arrive broken.  A literal handful of foam peanuts in a box too big for the item! The seller gets to keep their money and the buyer gets a refund but that's one less vintage item in the world.  Occasionally I would ask sellers to consider changing their auction and sending it themselves.  50% refuse and the other 50% say they will but are unable to.  It use to be that you couldn't change the auction after a bid but I suspect that even that isn't possible now.  There is no combining packages for multiple purchases and they sneakily make it the default a lot of the time.

On top of that, I recently relented and bought an item through the program.  Of course it arrived damaged.  I bought a MIB item and whilst it did have minor damage on the listing, it was much worse on arrival.  I don't even know how it could have been ripped the way it was.  Ebay tried to debate that I paid for the item in the box and not the box itself so it wasn't damaged.  I informed them that I bought both in the listing and the condition of both were in the auction description, thus I paid for both things.  They said I had to get a partial or full refund from the seller directly.  The seller did give me $5 off the price I paid but also told me it should have been covered by the program.  So now the one positive of the program, taking the fall for damage, isn't even available.

It's absurd.  Utterly absurd.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 05:51:01 AM
How awfull, I'm sorry for you. I wonder if sending your replies would help seller not to choose this ugly program!

I just cleaned my list of "watched item" from all those who smelled "the program" and I feel like after amazon, I'm gonna boycott ebay :cry:
And I'm waiting the reply from my seller, but I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause as you said... Finger crossed.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2018, 06:06:45 AM
I flat refuse to buy anything MIP through the GSP. Which is a loss for the sellers using it, because basically that means there are a good number of MIP ponies I would have bought if they had had proper shipping options, but didn't, because of GSP. And many of them never sold.

Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: banditpony on April 05, 2018, 06:13:09 AM
I just want to note...

Regardless of the global shipping program, sellers aren't required to combine shipping... So you should always ask your seller before you bid if they combine, if it isn't written in their listing.

It is also against eBay's TOS to make any payments outside of eBay. YOU could get in trouble for asking that.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: jrr74 on April 05, 2018, 06:28:36 AM
What ponies were you hoping to get?  I have many doubles, maybe i can help out.  As for GSP, they are responsible for the only package I did not receive out of all of the stuff I have bought overseas.  MIB perfume puff playset thing; I think perfume is one of those no-no items for shipping and so they saw the box perfume puff and bam, done with it.  Seller was refunded, I was refunded, and a MIB mlp item was lost to GSP 

:enraged:
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 05, 2018, 06:53:29 AM
I would suggest asking the seller to cancel your bid and relist with shipping that isn't under the GSP.

Note that eBay automatically signs sellers up for it, and they may not know how to turn it off.  So you may have to walk them through the steps.  Assuming they are even willing.

If they aren't willing, I would just ask them to outright cancel the bid and skip out on the items.  I'm sure they will pop up elsewhere sooner or later.

Unfortunately it is true that the GSP does not allow sellers to combine shipping, and also that the seller has no control over the postage / fees.  As far as I know the seller is not even shown your shipping amount, they are simply given enough postage (by eBay) to ship the item to a domestic Pitney-Bowes center.  Pitney-Bowes is the one who is both setting and getting the full shipping money.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 05, 2018, 07:08:09 AM
everyone has provided some great advice here.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 07:31:59 AM
Well the vendor replyied to me and is okay to sent out of the program, the problem is that ebay don't let us getting rid of it.
I'm relieved this is a kind person who take a little time to help with my problem.

Also, you're right, I should have asked for the combined postage BUT to be honest, I always got them automatically without asking before I bid on an add from the program :blush:
Thanks a lot to all of you for your advice and kind words!

PS: I've contacted ebay directly and they suggested themselve for me to ask to pay out of ebay with paypal, then to let the vendor mark all as paid... so if it's ebay customer service who tells it, I'm not gonna be in trouble no??
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: banditpony on April 05, 2018, 08:23:33 AM
PS: I've contacted ebay directly and they suggested themselve for me to ask to pay out of ebay with paypal, then to let the vendor mark all as paid... so if it's ebay customer service who tells it, I'm not gonna be in trouble no??

I have a hard time imagining eBay would suggest you pay outside of eBay, that means they wouldn't get their fees. That isn't saying they didn't suggest it but that is bizzare.

It is up to the seller to report a buyer. Here is a link about reporting:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/reporting-issue-buyer?id=4084
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 08:29:07 AM
Well, I explained the vendor about what ebay custom service said to me and she/he (?) phoned to ask too and sent me a mail to said they confirmed it was fine in our case. So I'm waiting for my invoice.
I imagine they should have their fees when the vendor will connect the invoice to ebay to mark it as paid :biggrin:
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2018, 10:11:51 AM
It makes you wonder if they've had so many complaints about this that ebay's customer service have just thrown in the towel and gone...fine. Whatever. Because if it's happening with their knowledge they can do what ColdRuru said and invoice a seller for the fees later...

Sounds like this is a good seller, that they're willing to go to so much trouble. GSP is a parasite :/
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Kazzellin on April 05, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Im glad to hear this worked out for you! :)
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 11:00:16 AM
Thanks you all.
And yes, I'm so lucky it's an very kind and understanding buyer, it gives me hope to bid again to the US because I was ready to forget about it. But I will double check after the GSP before and do not do the same mistake again, as I know now that it can be hiding :unsure:
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Wardah on April 05, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
The problem is the way ebay has it set up you either have to accept buyers from everywhere or only your country. And when opening it up to countries like Italy and Spain that have terrible postal services since when you send it with USPS they hand it over to whatever government run postal service exists in that country (and the Italian one doesn't even allow non wooden toys). At least GSP uses private carriers in countries with iffy postal services.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 05, 2018, 01:51:31 PM
Well it's sad that Italy and Spain postal services are so bad, as they seems to be the only countries that could enjoy GSP.

But yes, I understand that ebay is doing it's best to push people to choose for their shipping service and that's not the vendor fault, but this is hard for other countries to follow on US ponies with abusive ebay import cost. I would be less mad about this idea if they at least won't do the customs in place of the real customs, breaking the under "taxable" price rules.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 05, 2018, 04:37:14 PM
The problem is the way ebay has it set up you either have to accept buyers from everywhere or only your country.
Fundamentally incorrect. It is possible to select which countries you ship to and it doesn't have to be everywhere or nowhere. In the section where you choose shipping locations, there is an option to choose countries. And then you can select where you want to ship, omitting the others that you don't.

I don't particularly agree with that practice, but saying it's not there is misinformation. It is.

Personally, if I were Spanish or Italian I'd be offended at most of the rest of your comment. I mean, I've had the most problems personally with the USPS, particularly Chicago;s hub, which likes to send my parcels to Canada instead of to the UK (they apparently haven't learned yet that postal codes exist in other countries. Sigh). This has happened more times than I can count and adds about a week to the delivery as the poor folk in Canada have to send it back to the US to be redone. I had one pony that took six months because of the USPS. That's not normal.

 And it's easy to sit there and say the GSP is great for such places, but you're talking about a service that overcharges import fees, delays delivery by about a week, which repackages items to damage them and doesn't even require a signature. I am not sure that really sounds better.

Within the EU I don't think Spain and Italy have that many problems, anyway. I don't know what it's like for countries outside (maybe soon we'll find out), but I think it's wrong to assume that the GSP is better. I bought a pony from Spain recently and Royal Mail's tracking was dead to the world, but the Spanish site gave me tracking all the way through, so I knew where it was.

And let's not pretend Royal Mail are angels, since they can occasionally send a package to the wrong continent or make a 2 day delivery package within the same country take 2 weeks for no reason.

My point is all postal systems have twitches. And even though they do, it's not always the case that couriers are a better option. I would certainly rather have my parcels delivered to me, not abandoned under a bush.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Wardah on April 06, 2018, 12:23:23 AM
The problem is the way ebay has it set up you either have to accept buyers from everywhere or only your country.
Fundamentally incorrect. It is possible to select which countries you ship to and it doesn't have to be everywhere or nowhere. In the section where you choose shipping locations, there is an option to choose countries. And then you can select where you want to ship, omitting the others that you don't.

I don't particularly agree with that practice, but saying it's not there is misinformation. It is.

Personally, if I were Spanish or Italian I'd be offended at most of the rest of your comment. I mean, I've had the most problems personally with the USPS, particularly Chicago;s hub, which likes to send my parcels to Canada instead of to the UK (they apparently haven't learned yet that postal codes exist in other countries. Sigh). This has happened more times than I can count and adds about a week to the delivery as the poor folk in Canada have to send it back to the US to be redone. I had one pony that took six months because of the USPS. That's not normal.

 And it's easy to sit there and say the GSP is great for such places, but you're talking about a service that overcharges import fees, delays delivery by about a week, which repackages items to damage them and doesn't even require a signature. I am not sure that really sounds better.

Within the EU I don't think Spain and Italy have that many problems, anyway. I don't know what it's like for countries outside (maybe soon we'll find out), but I think it's wrong to assume that the GSP is better. I bought a pony from Spain recently and Royal Mail's tracking was dead to the world, but the Spanish site gave me tracking all the way through, so I knew where it was.

Afaik when I list things in the mobile browser I don't have that option. The first time I listed using GSP I didn't even intend to ship internationally at all.

While I'm not sure on the postal rules in Spain I do know in Italy they don't even allow plastic toys like dolls and ponies. There was a big to do about it on this very site.

I am annoyed that they repackage things since it's entirely unnecessary. The program itself is a good idea I just wish they would work on the issues they have to make it better.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 06, 2018, 06:40:08 AM
It's possible to block bids from certain countries (I block Italian bidders because, like you said, technically it's illegal to send plastic toys to them internationally), but it's a big pain in the butt to find the page for it.  And I imagine it would be even more difficult to find on mobile.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: banditpony on April 06, 2018, 07:46:29 AM
The problem is the way ebay has it set up you either have to accept buyers from everywhere or only your country.
Fundamentally incorrect. It is possible to select which countries you ship to and it doesn't have to be everywhere or nowhere. In the section where you choose shipping locations, there is an option to choose countries. And then you can select where you want to ship, omitting the others that you don't.

I don't particularly agree with that practice, but saying it's not there is misinformation. It is.

Personally, if I were Spanish or Italian I'd be offended at most of the rest of your comment. I mean, I've had the most problems personally with the USPS, particularly Chicago;s hub, which likes to send my parcels to Canada instead of to the UK (they apparently haven't learned yet that postal codes exist in other countries. Sigh).

Via normal browser here is the options we have these options to ship:
N. and S. America / Canada / Mexico / Brazil / Europe / United Kingdom / Germany / France / Russian Federation / Asia / China / Japan / Australia

(This is also on mobile but it was REALLY hard for me to find, and really not easy to set as you have to get through multiple selections for it to finally show up).

I don't know anything about Spain's postal service.
But the whole USA to Italy bad postal service thing has a lot of stories behind it. And for a platform like eBay, it's not worth the risk for most sellers. It's not about slow service, it's about packages disappearing.

I've been told by Italians to not ship first class to them due to the risk. So take that into consideration too. :/
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: Taffeta on April 06, 2018, 08:45:30 AM
Actually, you can exclude any country you don't want to ship to, and you can find it within literally 2 seconds of opening up a sale listing because I just did it :P

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Options where to ship to, but the above dropdown allows you to select Worldwide as well.
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Options to exclude countries, with the option to break down into continents to find individual countries.

So yes it is possible to exclude locations. No it is not hard to locate.

I know that Italian post has a reputation ,but I also know that Italian people are well used to dealing with it. And as I said, experiences from inside the EU, where custom restrictions do not exist, are different from outside.

As for the ebay options thing, if it's too much hassle to bother reading a whole page to check your options or ticking boxes to sort out your preferences, I kind of wonder about whether it's too much hassle to be selling an item. I feel like customer service has died a little with the convenience of mobile listing quick ebay, and the GSP is basically a result of that. People want more money, but want other people to shoulder the burden, cost and risk. The concept of GSP was born out of a culture of people not wanting to bother ticking boxes and calculating shipping...but still wanting to take the money of people overseas. And of course, ebay exploit that because they want higher prices so they get more fees.

 It's not a surprise to me that the GSP is rampant in the US and the UK, the two countries (one of which being mine) where sellers are most likely to only ship within their own borders. This in spite of the fact many European sellers ship internationally and use multiple languages to do so. Given the amount of trouble that European sellers often go to to help us out and speak our language, I just think it's rude to sweepingly generalise about their postal systems, not least because I suspect that probably the language barrier means most people here haven't spent a long time exploring their site or the options they offer. It's not good to knock something without doing the actual research first. There are bad sellers and problems in every place, but it's not a reason to blacklist a whole country. Even given that Italy is something of an exception, it doesn't mean every transaction fails.

I am old school, but I also think it's a lot less hassle to list and ship and visit a post office than it is to trust a parcel to a random repacking facility who may wreck it and then give me a buyer who's unhappy and ranting about it over my message system. True, GSP should NOT be defaulted into people's accounts, they should have the right to choose to use it. But if more people shipped worldwide as standard, then there wouldn't be any need for a GSP to exist.

Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 06, 2018, 08:55:13 AM

But the whole USA to Italy bad postal service thing has a lot of stories behind it. And for a platform like eBay, it's not worth the risk for most sellers. It's not about slow service, it's about packages disappearing.

I've been told by Italians to not ship first class to them due to the risk. So take that into consideration too. :/

Yeah, Italy has a terrible postal system.  It is what it is.  I would sell to Italy on eBay IF sellers weren't responsible for packages lost in the mail.  But they are.  I do sell to Italy on other venues (like the Arena or TP) as long as the buyer agrees, in writing, that I am not financially responsible for lost items.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: banditpony on April 06, 2018, 08:55:45 AM
@Taffeta
Oh I was trying to say i agreed with you it wasn't domestic OR worldwide. I did forget about exclude list. I REMEMBERED the exclusions in the past, but it didn't stick out to me when I did it just a few seconds ago. *shrug* I don't offer international shipping anymore because people don't want to pay priority for the items I list.

But to be honest, on mobile, it was REALLY hard to get to the countries you ship to. I'm trying to do it again and I can only get it to toggle GSP on and off-- and I CAN'T find the selection screen for the countries-- that I just saw 30 minutes ago.
I'm gonna keep playing with it...

ETA:
Playing with it.
Spoiler
There's a selection where it says international shipping.
You click it-- and it automatically selects GSP. Nothing else. From the looks of it -- there doesn't look to be anything else you can select.

But if you tap GSP, you can find you see that you can select international first class / priority / etc.

I clicked first class and it took me out of that screen.

There isn't anything that is showing up about countries.

I see something called international destination, and I can choose worldwide or canada-- what the heck because I saw the options for the other areas before

My conclusion is it's a really bad interface and they are trying to discourage people from making those selections.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: FiddlePhan on April 06, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
That Global Shipping program is such a rip off.  It makes it so expensive to purchase and like you're seeing, it charges duties on items where there shouldn't have been duty.  I'm cool with paying duty when I'm actually required by law but now by this sketchy program where the buyer and the seller are penalized: buyer by being grossly over charged and sellers by losing sales.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: CrystalSnowflake on April 06, 2018, 07:47:13 PM
I think ebay would tell you to pay with Paypal because they are practically the same thing. From what I remember Paypal is owned by ebay.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: banditpony on April 07, 2018, 09:52:22 AM
From what I remember Paypal is owned by ebay.

Not anymore. And eBay is going with a different platform (Ayden) for their main payment processor by 2020. 
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 09, 2018, 06:06:16 AM
From what I remember Paypal is owned by ebay.

Not anymore. And eBay is going with a different platform (Ayden) for their main payment processor by 2020. 

Oh wow . . . Well, I'm not looking forward to (I assume) having to use a new platform, but on the other hand Paypal is pretty much a monopoly right now, so maybe this will be a good thing.
Title: Re: Need Help : Ebay abusive "import fees"
Post by: ColdRuru on April 11, 2018, 05:37:57 PM
For those who cares about, I got my ponies today!!
Even if we contacted ebay with the vendor to fix it, they are still considered unpaid as I never paid the abusives fees then :silly:

So there's one thing I'm sure about this whole story: if you get into the GSP it's NOT easy to get out, as ebay does not offers the usual "vendor tools". And even when you contact them to cancel it AND they explain you how do, it doesn't work.
So be carefull as vendor (and as seller as well).
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