The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => MLP Nirvana => Topic started by: Mlp Sunsparkle on January 02, 2019, 08:36:09 AM
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Happy new year everyone!
On New Year’s Eve I went to pick up a lot of ponies, and I got the lot for this gem, Princess Sundance!
She is a princess variant with (no country) Sundance’s body, Pearl’s head and either Taffeta or Pearl’s tail. She has no tinsel in it, and there is no trace of any in the clip (her tail is so thin that the clip can be pulled right to the tail hole). She has no forelock either.
Here are some pictures of her:
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Mlp Sunsparkle xx
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Oh wow, what an oddity! She’s absolutely brilliant!
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Again? There has been one like this already http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=473005 (http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=473005)
Mentioned in these threads before:
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,388531.msg1674482.html (http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,388531.msg1674482.html)
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,310080.0.html (http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,310080.0.html)
From the tail which is significantly thinner on yours, I can tell it's not the same pony. Would be time to add her to the wiki I guess?
Oh, congratulations! She's a gem indeed. :)
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She’s lovely!! What an odd pony.
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Interesting find! I've never heard of a pony that has a body of a certain pose and a head of another pose.
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My immediate thought was whether this was Winterblossom's (?) that she's had at ponycon a few times, but it doesn't look the same to me either...
@Elva - there are a whole bunch of those which were sold here in the UK at the end of MLP, literal puttogether jobs, often bits of Princess and Happytail, or frankenstein wingers mixing bits of windy and summer wings. Also some weird flutters with no hair or wings in Windy Wing boxes...and so on. But the Pearl/Sundance hybrid thing has inspired questions and discussion previously...and now another one. We really need more information on this, but this is super-interesting to me.
Winterblossom's met with scepticism because if you just glance at it it looks ridiculously like someone just shoved a head from one pony on a body of another. But I feel like the small details suggest that it would be really hard work to bother to do that, especially to just sell it in a lot of ebay items. I saw it at ponycon a few times and it still divides opinion - but things like the lack of forelock (Pearl should have this) and the Taffeta tail (Taffeta wasn't sold in the UK but her hair was - ONLY in the variant princess context) makes a put-together job more unlikely. For it to be a put together you would have to sacrifice three ponies. One of which was only sold in Europe (NC Sundance). One was not sold in the UK (Taffeta) and one was sold in the UK but with a forelock (Pearl). To make that work you'd have to rehair the forelock of the Pearl with tinsel to remove the missing forelock, steal part (Not all) of a Taffeta tail and then shove it on a body it clearly doesn't match with to make the project complete.
Now a second one has turned up, again without attention drawn to it, in a bunch of items collected by a reputable collector. And the features are similar, especially the lack of forelock. No tinsel in the tail makes it different, but Winterblossom still had hers as of ponycon last Oct, so I'm pretty sure these are different ponies.
It seems like a weird but legit variant to me. We need more information, but it seems more likely than not.
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Interesting that everyone in 2012 says it’s not legit. How things change!
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By the way, there has been these variations of UK princess variants before. I am talking about her having no tinsel in her tail, but the other version from the links I posted above does have multi color tinsel in her tail. I may not sound like it, but I find this pretty awesome. :D
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Interesting that everyone in 2012 says it’s not legit. How things change!
People in 2012 didn't see it in person, which makes the difference when looking at small details. Although a lot of the time people don't look at small details anyway. It's still not that we can prove anything about this pony, or disprove it either, but it seems more likely to exist than not exist.
Things really don't change, though. There's a long history of people decrying things that turn out to be real and advocating stuff that turn out to be fake. It's how our community learns about new stuff, through the trial and error of extensive discussion and personal knowledge.
There are definitely other princess variants which are mostly the same except for a lack of/inclusion of tinsel in the tail, so that variation between these two is actually also in keeping with princess variants. The confusing part is that it's Sundance's body that's being used here, as this is the only time we've seen Sundance involved in the princess variants. But I wonder if we should really be surprised. Sundance was still on sale in the UK as a NC pony in 1987, the same year as the first set princess ponies. The variants come from pieces that generally date from 1987-1988/9ish. But I admit I would be happier to know of other Sundances as hybrids...to know where she fits in overall. PEarl is also not a common inclusion in princess variants, though. Maybe because Happytails are none of them white, and there is generally an attempt to colour match bodies to heads where possible with the others. MAybe this is Pearl's equivalent.
I should add to this that I don't believe NC Sundance is made in Spain. But that's a whole other discussion point.
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She sure is odd!
She’s definitely not Winterblossom’s, as I bought her on Facebook in a lot of other ponies
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(seller’s pic)
She said they have lots of play in them and that there were some old and some new, so to my knowledge she was just clearing out unused toys. She wanted £20 for the lot.
Her tail is significantly thinner than usual (wouldn’t say it’s as thick as a g4 even!)
If there is anything else I can do to help (pics etc.) just ask and I’ll do my best :)
Also, I think you’re definitely on to something with nc sundance not being Spanish, as if she was made in Spain, why would they pay to ship parts of ponies meant to be sold off cheaply? There are some German hair colours in princess variants but the German variants were also manufactured in Hong Kong (or china, sorry can’t remember which one)
Mlp Sunsparkle xx
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I love her!!! ♥♥♥♥ Sundance is my all time favorite pony :happy: Now I want to make a custom of Princess Sundance!
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What an oddity, that's interesting. :D
@MLPSunsparkle : I too don't think NC is Spanish. I have seen 3 of them in the wild, have two of them and I live in Belgium, there are more Italians than regular version and I've never seen any Spanish pony ever. Plus, with her striking blue Eyes, I always though NC Sundance would be Italian, but I have no idea why she has her country mark removed.
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I personally think she's Chinese.
My logic for this is circumstantial but is as follows:
The US release Sundance was made in HK. If the European one was made in HK there would be no need to remove the location from the hoof, thus it clearly isn't HK.
The UK box states clearly, Made in China.
There are a lot of Spanish made NC ponies around at this time, but their cards do say "Made in Spain" or "Made in Valencia, Spain".
The UK did not get any of the above Spanish made NC ponies for which we can confirm provenance. The UK didn't get any ponies made in countries other than HK or CHina, with the only questionable ones being Sundance and some of the Loving Family ponies. It would not be weird for a Spanish Sundance to appear in other countries in Europe where Nirvana ponies were sold as normal, but the UK didn't do this, making it more unlikely.
I am also suspicious about whether all NC family ponies are Spanish as well, but that is a harder one to prove as so many differences exist. But they came much later and some of them do have made in Spain on their cards, too.
NC Sundance I feel probably is not Spanish. And if she is Chinese, there is every reason that her body parts may end up in the same place as those from the variant frankenstein ponies, who are also Chinese as far as I am aware...
There are still way more questions, but I am generally a fan of asking the questions and poking at what we think we know, rather than making assumptions. If you think about it, there are a lot of NC ponies that are not Spanish in origin. Thus far nobody has been able to prove conclusively that Sundance's origins are in Spain. It's just been an assumption because of the other NC ponies from around the same time.
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Wow, she looks stunning. Congrats.
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The first one turned up in 2008 :) so I think there are THREE of Princess Sundance now.
http://mlparena.com/archive/Forums/viewtopic/t=141732/postdays=0/postorder=asc/highlight=princess+sundance/start=0.html
Yes, we were awfully sceptical, but really?! have you seen what she looks like? :nuts: She certainly breaks a lot of the rules (and her neck) AND the NC hoof mark as well :P
I have seen WinterBlossom's pony twice or even three times now and I have no doubt she is real and so is this girl.
Taffeta let me guess :wonder: it is 1986-1987 again! :lmao:
MLPSunSparkle the tail is thin because it is the thin part of a princess tail :biups: Princess tails are made in two parts, a regular thickness plain tail and a thinner tail which is part hair and part tinsel :)
Love pkw xxx
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This thread kind of makes me wonder where shelti is ;)
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@PKW - yep. But this time the disease spreads into 1988 as well I think ;)
That thread and the 2012 one kind of expose the big problems that still face our community. There have been some huge scams like the reverse gusty custom versions, which have made folk sceptical - but then again a lot of ponies we know for sure as real now began life as assumed fakies.
The moral is basically to examine every possibility and detail first I guess? I didn't realise there was a third one, but that kind of sums up for me that this is a weird Hasbro thing. Balance of probabilities, given how ridiculous some of the variant princesses/happytails/summer windy wings/flutters look (no hair and 3 combs?), that this kind of thing is possible. Is it more likely that Hasbro did this atrocity or is it more likely someone rerooted the forelock of Pearl's mane, imported a Taffeta and savaged three ponies, one of which wasn't sold here, to create a pony just to shove it into a generic lot with no identification and sell it for a bulk £20? It would cost more to do all of that work to invent it, which to me makes it much more likely this is real. I mean, you'd pay more just to buy Taffeta, not to mention import and shipping.
But PKW is right. Even as UK variants go, it looks stupid. :)
Although I kind of like that she does.
And now I want to know if there is a pony out there with Pearl's body, Sundance's head and a pink tail with tinsel. Or something else...Because when we first knew about the UK variants, we only knew about a handful of them and a lot of them were first looked at suspiciously (and sometimes still are) as put-together jobs. But there are literally around a hundred of those now known with minor or major differences...so who knows? There may well be more...
Re the tail - maybe half is in Sunsparkle's and half is in Winterblossom's, given that one has the tinsel and one doesn't, but both are thin xD.
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sweet :-) another oddball turns up
love the history of the put-togethers that explanation about China makes sense and yes to the thin tail for the two part aspect of how they do a thin tail with tinsel and then thicker tail hair
well that is just an awesome pony in the wild find ...lots of play left
nah = I think that girl earned her a sweet shelf spot :-) love the story of how you found her :-)
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Taffeta, I think it does spread into 1988, I was looking at just which ponies were have oddities of and some are in the 1988 year.
There were lots of reasons to be sceptical and I was VERY sceptical when that first Princess Sundance showed up. I can’t remember what happened to that pony though and I didn’t save any pictures and I can’t remember all her details. What I know now is I have a deeper understanding of things and better knowledge, which I didn’t have then.
The whole reverse Gusty scam really did ruin things for everyone -_-
Regarding the tail, tinsel does pull out easily or get snapped off. I’ve found “tinsel roots” inside princesses before now. It does appear to be a white tail with no tinsel.
Anyone else wondering what Taffeta Princess Sun Pearl (or Pearl Dance) would look like? I’m over here trying to figure out what way her head would be facing!
Love pkw xxx
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Anyone else wondering what Taffeta Princess Sun Pearl (or Pearl Dance) would look like? I’m over here trying to figure out what way her head would be facing!
Love pkw xxx
Back over her shoulder, staring back the way she's come as if to say, "what did you do to me, Hasbro!"
I am generally really sceptical about stuff so like you, I like the detail and the checking. But I also (literally) met Princess Woosie quite early on in my tender years of collecting xD. And that was pretty weird...it taught me Hasbro UK are odd. And also that UK kids are odd because they're willing to buy frankenponies.
I've seen Winterblossom's a few times and I'd love it if #3 turned up. Of course it could be Winterblossom's...or another one. I feel bad for the original seller in 2008 who seems to have come under fire and even been suspected as a scammer in that thread...knowing what we know now, it makes me wonder if the fate of that pony was less than good. Possibly even customisation, since she'd have been assumed to be 'bait'.
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hehe, that pose XD ... cute pony! :)
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I'm really late to the party (I'm having an ME flare up, and we're in the middle of having the kitchen done, so I've not been here for a few weeks),".
My princess is currently in storage, but when I can get at her again, hopefully in a couple of weeks, I'll post pics of her tail, which I have now discovered is loose enough to remove.
We should meet up at ponycon and do them a reunion portrait :)
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Gorgeous pony: congratulations!
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Hasbroken for the win! She's absolutely amazing. :o)
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Hasbroken for the win!
Oh, you DIDN't just say that!! :rofl:
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Oh my goodness! Another new grail variant of mine. She’s stunning!
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She kind of looks like a Big Brother/Mountain Boy. :lol:
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wow shes super cool! I've not seen this before! I hope we find out more info on her!
Off Topic.. But, I agree with Taffeta on the NC sundance not being made in Spain. Some So Soft Sundances in the US are no country stamp origin as well. So I think it was when they were going through a transition of country change, and maybe forgot to stamp it?
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wow shes super cool! I've not seen this before! I hope we find out more info on her!
Off Topic.. But, I agree with Taffeta on the NC sundance not being made in Spain. Some So Soft Sundances in the US are no country stamp origin as well. So I think it was when they were going through a transition of country change, and maybe forgot to stamp it?
WOW! How come we have not heard that before? I had no idea!!!!!
Love pkw xxx
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wow shes super cool! I've not seen this before! I hope we find out more info on her!
Off Topic.. But, I agree with Taffeta on the NC sundance not being made in Spain. Some So Soft Sundances in the US are no country stamp origin as well. So I think it was when they were going through a transition of country change, and maybe forgot to stamp it?
WOW! How come we have not heard that before? I had no idea!!!!!
Love pkw xxx
Me neither! I guess that nobody's really checked ones that have been deflocked, but that's super interesting because of the timeframe. If there are SS Sundances not marked HK...and there are releases of Sundance in Europe around the same time not made in Hong Kong, then that's a really positive link between the production lines.
I think she's made in China and they just removed the HK stamp but didn't bother to add a new one. But proving that is circumstantial since we have other ponies actually marked China as well...:/
More investigation needed...o.O. But yeah. Super interesting!
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This thread kind of makes me wonder where shelti is ;)
awwwww
we guys seriusely need some sort of oldies reuineion... sometimes i catch names here n there and get all excited with your familliars accounts. but im myself less here and more in the social networking. i'm trying and enjoying the arena at least once a week but its not enough for me :)
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Hi everyone!
I completely forgot to post that this ribbon was also in the lot. It is very cloth like, and wider than usual, apologies if I’m wrong but I believe this has something to do with Megan and/or sundance, so it could be her original ribbon! There were no other g1s or ribbons in the lot
Ribbon
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Plus, this Saturday just gone, I picked up another marketplace lot and got this beauty! Sundance seems very happy to meet another princess just like her! I’ll be bringing both these lovelies to U.K. ponycon, so if you’d like to meet them and or take a picture of them, give me a shout! I’ll have a purple popples backpack on, don’t be afraid to say hi if you want to!
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More pics
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In all my years of collecting, I’ve never once found a regular princess, but I’ve found two variants? Don’t ask me how that works, I’ve no idea!
Sunsparkle xx
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super duper sweet!! that is just so cool - yep = England be a great stompin' ground for variant princess ponies :-)
I do love how sparkle/amethyst oddballs are more pink than lavendar-y
what a cute couple!
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super duper sweet!! that is just so cool - yep = England be a great stompin' ground for variant princess ponies :-)
I do love how sparkle/amethyst oddballs are more pink than lavendar-y
what a cute couple!
They do tend to be pocketed in regions though. It may be dependent on where Sunsparkle lives, as some areas definitely had more of these than others. I've never found a single one at a carboot in all the years collecting in the midlands, nor ever in a store. BUT I know a lot turned up on the south coast and down in the south west, possibly even the South East. It seems to be something to do with distribution, but I don't know what the pattern is exactly.
In general, regular set 1 Princesses are a lot more common and more distributed across the whole UK than variants. BUT if you live in a hotspot, you may just find more than one weirdy...
Congrats on the new add, Sunsparkle ;)
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yes fair point regarding hot spots didn't mean to seem inconsiderate as assuming all areas equal
relation at all to local manufacturing in how the stores sold for retail? So is distribution likely tied to south coast - west to east since that is also where these odd-balls were manufactured? I think I remember the story that hasbro sent over bits and parts for assembling locally?
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Thanks!
I’m in Swindon (south west) but for both of these two I’ve travelled an hour and a half or so (Hounslow for Sundance and Addlestone for Amethyst), these two are only half an hour away (ish) from each other too so I’d say there’s certainly hot spots! The g1s I find locally are usually posey or Lickety split! Oh and baby Applejack? I got my fourth of her and confetti in this lot! Baby lollipop was also in this lot, I paid £35, I’m so pleased!
Sunsparkle xx
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Thanks!
I’m in Swindon (south west) but for both of these two I’ve travelled an hour and a half or so (Hounslow for Sundance and Addlestone for Amethyst), these two are only half an hour away (ish) from each other too so I’d say there’s certainly hot spots! The g1s I find locally are usually posey or Lickety split! Oh and baby Applejack? I got my fourth of her and confetti in this lot! Baby lollipop was also in this lot, I paid £35, I’m so pleased!
Sunsparkle xx
Yeah :D I'm currently about an hour from those places by bus in the other direction (I was actually in Hounslow yesterday, which is just a weird coincidence). I've only been here a year but haven't found any princesses - however G1 are so rare that I think you also need a flicker of luck as well. I'm glad they ended up in collector hands :D
Where I grew up in the midlands was unfortunately a hotspot for Sundae Best. Which was weird as I never saw any in stores, but found hundreds secondhand. ;)
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Gorgeous!!! What a find and of course a new friend for Princess Sundance! :heart:
I am looking forward to seeing them at PonyCon ;) I think people will be interested in seeing them :bigups:
Love pkw xxx
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Off Topic.. But, I agree with Taffeta on the NC sundance not being made in Spain. Some So Soft Sundances in the US are no country stamp origin as well. So I think it was when they were going through a transition of country change, and maybe forgot to stamp it?
(I know this this thread has been quiet for a month, but I've been catching up on Arena stuff.)
When I saw this statement about SS Sundance, I had to go check the one that I started deflocking a couple or more years ago (and never finished). Just so there is picture evidence:
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(https://flic.kr/p/2h8A6CE)
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(https://flic.kr/p/2h8A6EU)
I've had this girl since childhood, but I'm pretty sure I didn't get her new. She might have been acquired at a flea market or some such.
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yep good catch on the lack of hoof mark/ HK stamp I think that those with flocking were sometimes re-purposed as like the UK posey and the UK buttons - 3 button variety. To me it makes sense since flocking would seem to be a final production step and ya can divert existing pony stock to just packaging instead
kinda like how we found those vennes got repurposed as pinata toys sans hair and a squeaker-installed
thanks for the share!