The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: StarFaerie on April 24, 2012, 03:39:16 AM

Title: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: StarFaerie on April 24, 2012, 03:39:16 AM
So this is actually a nerf story but as it's Hasbro it seems it may affect our fandom too.


Basically Hasbro sent a legal letter demanding that a Nerf fansite pull down images of prototype/pre-release weapons and advise where they got the images and where they got the weapons they were doing play testing on (Taobao).


http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/free-stuff-from-hasbro-story-of-uts.html (http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/free-stuff-from-hasbro-story-of-uts.html)


An interesting development and I wonder if it's just Hasbro Australia overreacting to one thing or whether this is a new policy worldwide.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Icicle on April 24, 2012, 04:08:41 AM
...wow. That seemed rather sneaky and underhanded :(. Worries me about learning about new pony information (and other toys in general). Though... if Hasbro really cared about marketing they really should do it themselves...
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Gingerbread on April 24, 2012, 04:15:20 AM
Hmm that's a little scary on Hasbros part...and a little bit OTT too in my opinion.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: ponylady on April 24, 2012, 04:15:56 AM
Wow..thanks for a good read this morning.
 
It seems a little over the top on Hasbro's part over some Nerf toys. :nuts:   I mean really they send some "goons" to someone's house.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: heftysmurf76 on April 24, 2012, 04:35:49 AM
It's not just Nerf from what I've heard on other sites...I think the botcon is facing some serious issues too...


I have a few friends who do freelance work for Hasbro that told me this was coming, I'm surprised it was Nerf of all things.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Elisto on April 24, 2012, 05:00:34 AM
I was kind of waiting for this...like I've said in one of the Taobao threads, I do question the legality of what they're selling.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: ShortyBoo on April 24, 2012, 05:14:36 AM
I was kind of waiting for this...like I've said in one of the Taobao threads, I do question the legality of what they're selling.

But even so, that doesn't give Hasbro the right to go after the buyers. The people who buy the stuff off of Taobao aren't doing anything wrong. I think the real problem is that Hasbro's frustrated that they can't just go into China and sue and/or imprison all the workers who are selling the prototypes & unreleased merchandise on Taobao, so they just go after people who they think they can intimidate and try to make an example out of them. Promising free merchandise in order to get someone's address to sick a lawyer on them is playing dirty.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Taxel on April 24, 2012, 05:17:54 AM

That's just plain disturbing!

Are they going to start e-mailing MLPA members with Taobao-bought ponies and try and lure us to give up our info for free ponies? I'm suddenly glad I've never had the funds to order things from Taobao to resell. If some creepy strangers were lurking around my apartment I'd call the police.

Also haven't Hasbro reps at pony cons (idk which, dunno anything about them really) said that they read the forums? How can they NOT know about Taobao if that's true? I do not for a second believe they don't know about the :muffin: Pony toys being all over and going for insane prices, if nothing else, and so many auctions I've seen for them say "from Taobao". And wasn't it on EqD? Not hard to find.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: MonstarNomNom on April 24, 2012, 05:33:16 AM
StarFaerie:  This is totally unrelated to the thread but....I LOVE your avatar!!! Lol....pun intended ;D :lovey: :lovey: :lovey: :lovey:
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Eskara1862 on April 24, 2012, 05:40:03 AM
I was kind of waiting for this...like I've said in one of the Taobao threads, I do question the legality of what they're selling.

But even so, that doesn't give Hasbro the right to go after the buyers. The people who buy the stuff off of Taobao aren't doing anything wrong. I think the real problem is that Hasbro's frustrated that they can't just go into China and sue and/or imprison all the workers who are selling the prototypes & unreleased merchandise on Taobao, so they just go after people who they think they can intimidate and try to make an example out of them. Promising free merchandise in order to get someone's address to sick a lawyer on them is playing dirty.

I believe Hasbro may be looking at is as receiving stolen merchandise.  This is why i haven't purchased anything from Taobao, despite wanting it really badly.  There's really no way to know if these items are smuggled out of the factory by employees, thrown away and rescued from the trash (which can still be considered stealing), or are purchased by the workers. Since I don't speak Chinese, I can' t talk directly to the seller. Besides, if they're dishonest enough to publicly sell stolen merchandise, they won't tell me the truth about how they got it.

I'm not surprised this is happening, but I am surprised about the way Hasbro is going about it and that it hasn't happened sooner.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: tinrobo on April 24, 2012, 06:32:29 AM
It's fair enough that they want to keep their products secret and if they are being stolen they have a right to be concerned and want to track them down, I get all that... but their behaviour sounds seriously shady! Tricking the guy into giving his address then hanging around his apartment without even telling him they were coming?! I'm sure if they'd just been honest in the first place he'd have co-operated with the company that manufactures something that he's obviously passionate about... what terrible practice!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: plusleg1rl on April 24, 2012, 07:35:38 AM
I prefer to buy official ones in stores. I don't like prototypes, because im always looking for perfect ponies.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: xXCosmicBurstXx on April 24, 2012, 07:42:54 AM
Yeah, I think Hasbro needs to go after the people selling the dolls. If the toys are being stolen from the factory then Hasbro needs to tighten up security at the factories itself instead of going after the buyers. Hasbro never released a public statement about the prototypes. I think Hasbro should really make a public statement about the prototypes. Some people may stop buying the items from China if they knew Hasbro's opinion on the matter. I feel so so sorry for this guy.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Malicieuse on April 24, 2012, 08:23:25 AM
Wierd story but on the other hand not that surprising. I don't think Hasbro likes the idea of prototypes/ test runs getting into customers hands.
Perhaps Hasbro could be held responsible if something goes wrong with these toys?
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Opalescence on April 24, 2012, 08:48:38 AM

Going after Taobao is a-okay in my opinion. I wouldn't be too happy if someone was selling my stuff behind my back either. And at those prices I'd be really pissed.

On the other hand, it makes me wonder why the guy with the 3D printout ponies and the site that sounds suspiciously familiar to Hasbro hasn't been taken down yet as well.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: sweetstuff on April 24, 2012, 08:52:17 AM
I can't say I blame Hasbro for "cracking down" on this stuff. Let's face, as cool and interesting as these prototypes are  - Hasbro isn't getting a dime off these, and these products are their creative property.

Not that I'm trying to get anyone riled up - but in reality the Toaboa stuff and China ebay stuff are really stolen goods.

I feel bad for that guy, as he wasn't the one selling them and getting all the heat from the lawyers
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Vintergatan on April 24, 2012, 08:57:01 AM
heh, if Hasbro doesn't want their toys getting all over the place because they can't control the workers in, say, China, and if they don't have any legal means to prosecute pages like Taobao...erm, how about they move their production into a country with legal systems that suit them better and where they can avoid all this?
Oooh, right! then they'd actually have to pay their workers more than a few cents per hour :S

So yeah, the way I see it, it's their problem these things are happening and they have absolutely no right to behave this way towards their customers, this is pretty outrageous.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Opalescence on April 24, 2012, 09:14:53 AM
Well, if they can track the leaked goods back to Taobao, maybe the can stop the leakage by posting more armed guards in the chinese sweatshops.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Lon-san on April 24, 2012, 10:18:14 AM
I don't think comming down hard on Taobao will totally stop their leakage problems. Someone will still manage to smuggle a couple out, they just won't use Taobao to sell them and will be able to ask more for them. 'Cause, hey, $200 for a :muffin: Pony when there's 24ish, imagine how much you could get if there were only TWO. The Taobao sellers themselves only sold them for $15ish but if they felt it was a higher risk, they would ask a lot more.



Of course, it's still their right to crack down on sellers. It IS their stuff, after all. But I think they should also examine WHY people use Taobao.

1. They want it NOW: Okay, can't do anything about that. The stuff gets released when it gets released.

2. Panic: "What if if doesn't get sold here?" "What if it doesn't get sold at all??" Nothing can be done about the products that they opt not to produce.This would include Minty:( (Though I REALLY think they need to reconsider. She'd fill some gaps in the line and could be very popular)

As far as what they DO make, they need to get them out to more places. I don't mean putting them in stores that don't order them (What they do?), I mean making more of the products available to the places do. People who WOULD buy them legit are going "Eh, whatever. They probably won't sell that set here, anyway. I can buy only the parts I want from Taobao AND get it faster."

If you can't arrange a trade or a good deal, ponies that are exclusive to a certain area can have you paying trumped up prices or doing without. Buy Pony X off Taobao or wait untill she hits stores, but only in Country Y with her price tripled on the internet? The former doesn't make Hasbro any money. The latter makes Hasbro money but not as much as they could be making.

3. Taobao is a good indicator of what's comming. Example? That brushable Luna. Unless you don't like her, you can buy whatever set she's in instead of making one from a Cadence. And knowing she's comming could help with the "What if there's never another young alicorn toy?? I have to stock up to customize!!" type panic.Toy Fair is the only time we get to see what's comming from a legit source. I get that a lot of stuff has to be kept secret. But when it gets to the point where it's at the same stage as the Toy Fair stuff, why not put it up on a blog? Get people excited about the upcomming stuff?
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 24, 2012, 10:23:02 AM
Not surprising at all... there is a TON of money being lost to that market!  :( 
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Rhini on April 24, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
Welllll that was a nice and disturbing read!  >_<  I can't believe how underhanded it is of them to use tactics like offering free merch under the guise of getting his address so they could send lawyers to harass him.


Clearly they have every right to protect the integrity of their products and stop the sale of illegal merchandise, but if you're not smart enough to find the leaks, it is NOT our job or anyone else's job to do that for you. The fact that they had never even heard of taobao is a huge joke. Had they done any basic research it would have been easy enough to hunt down. If anyone should be receiving letters, it should be cease and desists sent to the sellers on Taobao, not to us.


I had noticed a general lack of new things appearing on there lately, and honestly I'm pretty okay with it. It's fun to know about things ahead of time, but often agonizing when you realize it's still going to be months till you can get your hands on one, if it ever gets released at all.


I really doubt they are losing a substantial amount of business however. 20 odd :muffin: Ponies isn't even a drop in the bucket to a company making millions of dollars a year. It seems like more of a routine crackdown or someone finally realized things were getting out of hand. It's very very hard for US companies to monitor what their factory workers are doing since they are often very disconnected from actual production.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Malicieuse on April 24, 2012, 11:00:23 AM
So yeah, the way I see it, it's their problem these things are happening and they have absolutely no right to behave this way towards their customers, this is pretty outrageous.

I'm sorry but if you buy from taobao you know you are buying stolen goods (at least the prototypes and such). I'm not saying that Hasbro handles this well (it's quite overkill) but to act as if the buyer is fully innocent seems silly to me.
That's like buying a stolen watch and saying "well that person should not have been so stupid to get robbed, so it's ok!".
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LuvlyMelody on April 24, 2012, 11:35:59 AM
Wow that's just scary, and downright dirty. I wonder if this crackdown is rising up because of the people asking if the taobao :muffin: Pony is legit or not. Doubt it.

But I can see why they'd want to stop the prototypes being released. Since this person is a reviewer and does reviews of the products. If they get a product that has yet to be released, and they do a review on it and it should the product be a "fail" (whether its because it is a prototype or a very bad product) their readers will get the impression that it isn't worth buying and since the product isn't even out yet, I'm guessing it would affect the sale of the product?? That's one of the ways that's going through my head.


As for the scary van and goons, very scary and mob like tactics. >,<;
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Opalescence on April 24, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
Yeah that seems logical. After all we live in an age where youtube celebrities can influence their most gullible of audiences to a scary degree
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: josiekat on April 24, 2012, 11:41:55 AM
Meh.....I don't really care either way. I mean, I would have loved a Minty (stupid Hasbro) or even the Ditzy Doo FS, but it's not like I was going to buy from taobao.....it's too much work for me. lol. I mean, hasbro has the right to protect their stuff, but since they essentially stole people's jobs when they sent their factories to China....I don't feel bad for them.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Varkolak on April 24, 2012, 11:57:06 AM
heaven forbid they actually look at taobao to see what the consumers like, and make something like it.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Opalescence on April 24, 2012, 12:09:06 PM
The customers shall be quiet until the marketing department tells the customers what the customers want.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Chi on April 24, 2012, 12:21:34 PM
This is a little over the top..Well, at least that SPECIFIC scenario. I can understand them questioning who they got the products from, but asking for their address to go to them? Eeergh.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Varkolak on April 24, 2012, 12:27:11 PM
i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! :D here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: mlp4me on April 24, 2012, 12:44:45 PM
If Hasbro really cared over the last 30 years there would be NO fakies roaming about... lol.
Obviously they can't control what happens with every pony that leaves the factory in somebody's pocket...
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Flitter on April 24, 2012, 12:57:11 PM
Bad form for sure but I'm not surprised Hasbro is trying to do something about it.

It's kind of odd, of the hobbies I've been in this community seems to be most accepting of re-cast fakes and grey market product. Yeah I like seeing pony news and new products as much as anyone else I won't be sad if we start seeing less leaked onto Taobao. I'd rather see the product line thrive in my country and not be taunted by pics of ponies that may not see releases for several months if ever.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Eskara1862 on April 24, 2012, 12:59:37 PM
i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! :D here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"


I guess the lesson here is, if Hasbro offers you free items out of the blue, say no!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Vintergatan on April 24, 2012, 01:04:11 PM
So yeah, the way I see it, it's their problem these things are happening and they have absolutely no right to behave this way towards their customers, this is pretty outrageous.

I'm sorry but if you buy from taobao you know you are buying stolen goods (at least the prototypes and such). I'm not saying that Hasbro handles this well (it's quite overkill) but to act as if the buyer is fully innocent seems silly to me.
That's like buying a stolen watch and saying "well that person should not have been so stupid to get robbed, so it's ok!".

First of all not all people know this. Honestly, neither do you as the origin of those items is not known for a fact.
Secondly, we are here talking about a few toys out of a gazillion that are produced every day by a multi-million company using cheap labour and breaking all kinds of human laws in the process (just like any company with their production in China).

So yeah, the fact that they can't (or simply don't) monitor what is going on in their factories is their fault and their problem and I have no issues with a few underpaid, exploited workers taking advantage of that.


There's an easy enough solution to deal with these thefts and fakie productions etc - it is to move their factories into countries with better regulations etc. However, the minute they decided they´d rather mass produce their stuff and use cheap labour, they should have expected this.

Comparing this situation to someone robbing a single person of their watch is like comparing apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LuvlyMelody on April 24, 2012, 01:06:26 PM
i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! :D here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"


I guess the lesson here is, if Hasbro offers you free items out of the blue, say no!

Lets make it more fun! *replaces words from sentence* (I'm sorry Eskara1862 but the wording of the sentence, scenario and timing was too perfect to pass.)

"I guess the lesson here is, if a stranger offers you free candy out of the blue, say no!"

Come on! I thought we all learned this when we were children! regardless of age and whether its candy or ponies! lol XD
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Rhini on April 24, 2012, 01:12:03 PM
i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! :D here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"


I guess the lesson here is, if Hasbro offers you free items out of the blue, say no!

Lets make it more fun! *replaces words from sentence* (I'm sorry Eskara1862 but the wording of the sentence, scenario and timing was too perfect to pass.)

"I guess the lesson here is, if a stranger offers you free candy out of the blue, say no!"

Come on! I thought we all learned this when we were children! regardless of age and whether its candy or ponies! lol XD
But but...Hasbro is such a NICE looking stranger XD
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Em_L._Pea_Customs on April 24, 2012, 01:53:16 PM
...Secondly, we are here talking about a few toys out of a gazillion that are produced every day by a multi-million company using cheap labour and breaking all kinds of human laws in the process (just like any company with their production in China)...There's an easy enough solution to deal with these thefts and fakie productions etc - it is to move their factories into countries with better regulations etc. However, the minute they decided they´d rather mass produce their stuff and use cheap labour, they should have expected this...

This is exactly what I was thinking! :)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Malicieuse on April 24, 2012, 02:02:05 PM
So yeah, the way I see it, it's their problem these things are happening and they have absolutely no right to behave this way towards their customers, this is pretty outrageous.

I'm sorry but if you buy from taobao you know you are buying stolen goods (at least the prototypes and such). I'm not saying that Hasbro handles this well (it's quite overkill) but to act as if the buyer is fully innocent seems silly to me.
That's like buying a stolen watch and saying "well that person should not have been so stupid to get robbed, so it's ok!".

First of all not all people know this. Honestly, neither do you as the origin of those items is not known for a fact.
Secondly, we are here talking about a few toys out of a gazillion that are produced every day by a multi-million company using cheap labour and breaking all kinds of human laws in the process (just like any company with their production in China).

So yeah, the fact that they can't (or simply don't) monitor what is going on in their factories is their fault and their problem and I have no issues with a few underpaid, exploited workers taking advantage of that.


There's an easy enough solution to deal with these thefts and fakie productions etc - it is to move their factories into countries with better regulations etc. However, the minute they decided they´d rather mass produce their stuff and use cheap labour, they should have expected this.

Comparing this situation to someone robbing a single person of their watch is like comparing apples and oranges.

I don't think anyone believes a product that hasn't even been released yet or is not supposed to be released is not stolen. Either way, they are not supposed to be sold. Also, all i'm hearing is "Hasbro is a big company so it's perfectly fine to steal from them". You wouldn't steal a pony from a store so why is stealing them from a factory perfectly fine?

Honestly, i don't know about the working conditions in the factories. Neither do i know if those taobao sellers are really some poor people who work in the factories. I just don't think that blaiming Hasbro for the fact people steal from them is ok.
And to me buying from taobao is not a big deal... but at least i'm aware that when i'm buying such a product that i'm not supporting Hasbro/ buying stolen goods and all that. I will not make up excuses as to why it is perfectly fine.
 
Also, moving their factories to other countries is not some magical solution to everything. At least i don't believe so. In fact, while sweatshops are horrible, firing all those Chinese workers doesn't sound that dandy either. I think we shouldn't simplify things. But i'm not going to get too off topic here.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: moonflower on April 24, 2012, 02:05:03 PM
That was a good read, thank you for sharing!

Hasbro has no right to go after people like that imo, it was way out of order. They should be going after the source, not the customers and the way they obtained this guys address was devious.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Vintergatan on April 24, 2012, 02:15:24 PM

Also, all i'm hearing is "Hasbro is a big company so it's perfectly fine to steal from them". You wouldn't steal a pony from a store so why is stealing them from a factory perfectly fine?

......

Also, moving their factories to other countries is not some magical solution to everything. At least i don't believe so. In fact, while sweatshops are horrible, firing all those Chinese workers doesn't sound that dandy either. I think we shouldn't simplify things. But i'm not going to get too off topic here.

That is not at all what i´m saying.

What i´m trying to say is that once you decide to go and establish your factory in a country with poor regulations where you don't have the legal protection you would have in, say, USA, France, Denmark etc, and you do that just so you could have cheap work force produce your goods - you have sacrificed that legal protection  for the sake of money.

I will try to make a less over-the-head comparison. Say, you start working unofficially somewhere. While you will get better pay as you don't get tax deducted from it etc, once you get sick or hurt, you have nothing to bounce back on. It is simply a risk  and if it was your choice, it is your problem now.

I am also not simplifying anything. I am simply saying that when companies decide to establish their production in countries such as China (with which i personally have massive issues and know quite a bit about) they lose my sympathy in these matters not just because of human rights violations but because then they have to follow Chinese rules and regulations which are not the same as in the USA. So yes, having their factories in a better regulated country is " a magical solution" to this, but is also more expensive for them.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: moonflower on April 24, 2012, 02:35:06 PM

Also, all i'm hearing is "Hasbro is a big company so it's perfectly fine to steal from them". You wouldn't steal a pony from a store so why is stealing them from a factory perfectly fine?

......

Also, moving their factories to other countries is not some magical solution to everything. At least i don't believe so. In fact, while sweatshops are horrible, firing all those Chinese workers doesn't sound that dandy either. I think we shouldn't simplify things. But i'm not going to get too off topic here.

That is not at all what i´m saying.

What i´m trying to say is that once you decide to go and establish your factory in a country with poor regulations where you don't have the legal protection you would have in, say, USA, France, Denmark etc, and you do that just so you could have cheap work force produce your goods - you have sacrificed that legal protection  for the sake of money.

I will try to make a less over-the-head comparison. Say, you start working unofficially somewhere. While you will get better pay as you don't get tax deducted from it etc, once you get sick or hurt, you have nothing to bounce back on. It is simply a risk  and if it was your choice, it is your problem now.

I am also not simplifying anything. I am simply saying that when companies decide to establish their production in countries such as China (with which i personally have massive issues and know quite a bit about) they lose my sympathy in these matters not just because of human rights violations but because then they have to follow Chinese rules and regulations which are not the same as in the USA. So yes, having their factories in a better regulated country is " a magical solution" to this, but is also more expensive for them.

Agreed. Hasbro should look into why/how these products are leaking out of their own factories. If anything they only have themselves to blame.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: ashes on April 24, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
I think Hasbro has every right to try and track down how their products are being leaked out.  The fact is that people are being dishonest in leaking prototypes, and Hasbro is trying to rectify it.  Maybe their tactics aren't pleasing to others, but that's what it is. 

Besides, how often have we had threads in here about blatant fakie rip-offs in either design or packaging logos and wished that Hasbro would do something about it? 

And people can be prosecuted for buying stolen goods, even if they claim they didn't know they were stolen.

ETA:  And we here at the Arena have been respectful of Hasbro's future releases when they didn't want pictures of them floating around yet.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: ThriftyPony on April 24, 2012, 03:42:45 PM
There are all kinds of Chinese ebay sellers selling presumably stolen factory goods... Seems to be pretty common place... but can you really blame them? If they made a livable wage they might not be so apt to steal. I mean, people steal from their jobs all the time, but there seems to be a very high amount of sellers selling new items super cheap on ebay -- like beads and jewelry supplies. That doesn't make it right, but maybe Hasbro should investigate why it's happening too?

I can see why Hasbro would be angry about it all though. There's probably a huge liability issue - those toys weren't approved and safety tested yet (presumably).

I never bothered with TaoBao because it was too expensive, but I'll admit I buy that cheap jewelry making stuff on ebay -- I mean $0.18 for beads? Including shipping?!

I hope they don't block us from sharing images of prototypes and upcoming releases though. :/
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: cesprins on April 24, 2012, 03:50:52 PM
Wow, that's really underhanded of them, offering free stuff so they can locate and sue them. I think we forget sometimes that corporations are not people. So I have little sympathy for a huge multimillion corp. trying to snipe down some single guy who bought their product direct from china? It's hasbro's problem if china is leaking their super secret toys, not his.


I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the corporations catch on and do try to make it illegal to buy directly for china though. Key word: try. They really can't stop chinese based shopping services since they don't have the power to tell other countries what to do. Packages can always be marked as a gift as well. So change would have to be made in china in the online stores and factory. Not here in the us.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: babystarz on April 24, 2012, 03:53:12 PM

Also, all i'm hearing is "Hasbro is a big company so it's perfectly fine to steal from them". You wouldn't steal a pony from a store so why is stealing them from a factory perfectly fine?

......

Also, moving their factories to other countries is not some magical solution to everything. At least i don't believe so. In fact, while sweatshops are horrible, firing all those Chinese workers doesn't sound that dandy either. I think we shouldn't simplify things. But i'm not going to get too off topic here.

That is not at all what i´m saying.

What i´m trying to say is that once you decide to go and establish your factory in a country with poor regulations where you don't have the legal protection you would have in, say, USA, France, Denmark etc, and you do that just so you could have cheap work force produce your goods - you have sacrificed that legal protection  for the sake of money.

I will try to make a less over-the-head comparison. Say, you start working unofficially somewhere. While you will get better pay as you don't get tax deducted from it etc, once you get sick or hurt, you have nothing to bounce back on. It is simply a risk  and if it was your choice, it is your problem now.

I am also not simplifying anything. I am simply saying that when companies decide to establish their production in countries such as China (with which i personally have massive issues and know quite a bit about) they lose my sympathy in these matters not just because of human rights violations but because then they have to follow Chinese rules and regulations which are not the same as in the USA. So yes, having their factories in a better regulated country is " a magical solution" to this, but is also more expensive for them.

Yes I agree with this. Hasbro knew going in what the choice was. Legal standards and security, as well as how copyrights and theft itself are thought of, are not the same in China as they are in many western countries. When Hasbro decided to open up factories there, they  rolled the dice when it came to this stuff. Had they decided on a factory elsewhere, things would be very different. For one thing, countries that require people be paid a living wage tend not to see the same desperation in smuggling products off factory lines, as well as better relationships between companies and the people who work for them. Which in turn tends to result in better security, without actually spending more on security. Globalization and massive corporations along with the disgusting working conditions that are the norm for factory work in China make this a complicated issue. And frankly, I'm not about to judge anyone for smuggling out a pony in order to put food on their table. I'm not about to cry a river for Hasbro, it's making massive profits on the backs of these exploited workers - more than enough to make up for a few stolen ponies.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: banditpony on April 24, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
Hasbro has every right to protect their intellectual property. And they DO this everyday. And normal consumers don't really know the legal issues or battles that companies make daily.

Some things I read in this thread contradict what I have been taught in a lecture by a company making a similar product. (I am just not confident in the topic to make comments on it, but what I am reading doesn't sound right).

Also, I think it's worth a note that the letter did not come from Hasbro, but a firm that Hasbro hired. What they did about the address is shady, and it is sad that Hasbro would hire someone who would do something like that.

Asking a public forum to take down unreleased/non official merchandise , and the way to purchase such things, is smart for the company.

...
and we don't know anything about who is taking the product from the factory. i think it's more so from management instead of a "poor underpaid factory worker".
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: scarletjul on April 24, 2012, 04:02:09 PM
Ok, I find this a bit creepy, honestly.

I think that taobao is trafficking stolen goods - they have to be, because one way or another, Hasbro never agreed to let those sellers sell that merchandise and all of those products are either prototype or haven't been distributed yet.  So, I'm okay with Hasbro trying to stop leakage if they want to protect their production.

However, I think their tactics went a little far.  Lying to the guy to get his address, especially when he repeatedly told them he'd already deleted the images as requested and furthermore didn't have the products anyhow, is going a bit far.  Those are just bullying tactics and I think that Hasbro went too far at that point and after the wrong people.  Once the blogger cooperated with the original requests, I think Hasbro should have just politely thanked him and left it at that.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Flitter on April 24, 2012, 04:09:36 PM
To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: partypony566 on April 24, 2012, 04:13:59 PM
i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! :D here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"


I guess the lesson here is, if Hasbro offers you free items out of the blue, say no!

This!!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: xeevee on April 24, 2012, 04:14:53 PM
I am going to just echo a couple of other people for a second.  The stuff on Taobao comes from China.  China do not have the same laws as us.  They have a fake Disney land in the middle of Beijing that Disney can't do anything about.  It is common place to take stuff from factories you work for. It probably isn't even considered stealing there.  More of a perk. And you know what?  If it was stealing they would deaerve it!!  These people make around $1 a day. Yes things are cheaper there, but as someone who is about to move to china for work I can tell you, $5 a week buys food, and that's it!  I would take toys and sell them too!!  Want people not to steal stuff from you, pay them for there work!!! Or you know, make it in countries where they give a crap about your rules.

I also want to add, as someone who has dealt with Hasbro Australia for pony fair here.  They are a bunch of tight wads.  We tried to get them involved in 3 fairs.  The first fair they were really pushy about what had to be included for them to be involved.  We followed all their guidelines, and they sent us a small sign with the mlp logo on it.  The second fair they wouldn't even talk to us, and the third they said they only give things to charities and cut communication.  So this may end up being Australia specific.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: babystarz on April 24, 2012, 04:20:30 PM
No offense meant here, but statements straight from a company are hardly an unbiased source of information. They have a vested interest in presenting a wholesome image of their ethics to the public. I would be morere inclined to take an independent source with no stake in profits at face value.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: xeevee on April 24, 2012, 04:21:55 PM
To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php

That says they follow the rules in China.  Which is pay minimum wage (around $1 a day) and don't hire kids under 14.  Still not a livable wage.   If they cared that much they would manufacture in countries that pay people enough to live on regardless of what it did to the cost of toys.  You do know toys are a luxury item?

It also doesn't change that the Chinese government and it's people have a completely different set of ethics, and the selling or prototypes and making fakies in factory don't matter to them at all.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Vintergatan on April 24, 2012, 04:44:06 PM
To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php

That says they follow the rules in China.  Which is pay minimum wage (around $1 a day) and don't hire kids under 14.  Still not a livable wage.   If they cared that much they would manufacture in countries that pay people enough to live on regardless of what it did to the cost of toys.  You do know toys are a luxury item?

It also doesn't change that the Chinese government and it's people have a completely different set of ethics, and the selling or prototypes and making fakies in factory don't matter to them at all.

Absolutely true xeevee.

I am someone who is involved in Corporate Evnironmental Responsibility (a subgroup of CSR) so i pretty much know how those things go. Simply having a CSR statement does not mean that you are indeed a responsible company. A lot of it is whitewashing. As far as I am concerned, knowing the situation in Chinese factories (as I do) I don't even need to read theirs to know that what they are doing is unacceptable (as xeevee stated).

All I´m really trying to say here is that people need to remember that rules and laws are not the same everywhere. To us in the western world, the copyright might sound like a given and breaking it sounds highly unethical. However, as someone who has dabbled in copyright law, I would like to point out that copyright is simply a creation of our cultures that we are imposing on others, usually to their detriment.

I completely understand that many are scandalized by these practices, and you would have full right to be had that been done in your country where you know the rules and respect them. It is not equally justified if the situation is vastly different somewhere else - and it´s there where Hasbro is having issues ^^
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Elisto on April 24, 2012, 04:55:32 PM
It's true factory workers in China get paid terribly, and it's true China has different attitudes about copyright (although my Chinese roommate tells me they are aware and do understand our view of it). However, we don't know exactly who's selling the prototypes or why, and I see no reason to think people in other countries wouldn't do the same thing if they thought they could get away with it.

Hasbro's tactics here may be sketchy, but I really wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know about Taobao. There are members here on the Arena who don't know what it is! I doubt Hasbro has people who just search MLP stuff online regularly to monitor what fans are up to. They may very well have thought this guy had actual contacts and was more involved than he actually is.

I think Hasbro's way of dealing with this or getting information maybe wrong, and they may very well be exploiting the bad worker/salary situation in China, but so is just about every other major company. So personally, sure, I'm not happy with them for that, but them trying to track down what very well may be stolen property is the last thing I'm going to get angry with them for.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 24, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
Personally, I don't feel any pity for Hasbro for losing out on a few dollars when they are making MEGA $$$$ by setting up factories in countries without much care for workers' rights or decent pay.   Hasbro reaped the positive benefits of that setup . . . super cheap production costs.  Now they can deal with the negatives . . . workers so desperate for money that they are willing to risk losing their jobs by smuggling toys out of the factory and selling them for amazingly cheap prices. 


If it bothers them so much maybe they should bring their manufacturing back to the US where they have more control.  But to purposely move their work to somewhere with minimal government interest in having oversight of their factories, and then get all pissy because there is minimal government interest in enforcing copyright laws?   No.  The sword swings both ways.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: sabathamk on April 24, 2012, 05:16:34 PM
I can hardly believe I've read through all this.  I still have one thing to say... it wasn't Hasbro that came to this guy's door.  It was the legal company they hired.  This guy should contact hasbro directly and tell them what the company they hired has done.  THEN see what happens.  This is a big company, it has been said so many times.  A big company like this would not care about the one little guy like him.  No, but they will hire some other company to look at why so much of their product is going missing/leaked.  I think everyone here pointing fingers at hasbro and saying they are a big bad company is a bit harsh.  The bigger the company, the harder it is to manage.  You have many people managing many areas, under many superior managers, eventually under a 'head' manager, and that 'head' is only going to hear about the big stuff because they can't possibly take the time for all the little things.  So the toys are made in China.  That is where they were able to make lots of toys cheaper and provide jobs for those many many people.  I don't know about the Chinese laws or about how Hasbro is treating their employees.  Apparently, they are holding to those laws.  Good.  In China, their laws are being upheld.  If the Chinese government wants to treat their people better, they will change their laws.  Not to mention, minimum wage differs from country to country, mainly based upon each country's cost of living.  We don't agree with it here, but that is the way it is there.  Perhaps Hasbro is going above and beyond?  If they weren't doing a good job, people wouldn't work there, would they?  Perhaps the people there love their job and are happy?  I don't know, honestly, but I do know that the media out here loves to twist and warp things to get 'a story', and the situations we think all factories out there are like may actually have only been one really bad factory.  Truth is in the eye of the beholder... and can easily be warped by our media. 

Anyway... if we know that the items on Taobao should not legally be sold in Canada or the USA, should we be buying them (to clarify, this is a question I've asked myself, for myself)? Now I am not going to get mad at people who buy stuff from Taobao... it is up to you, nobody really knows if the stuff is stolen, or if it is legal in China to do what they are doing or whatnot.  I myself will not buy from them.  I don't need that item that badly, and don't want to cause issues within myself over the validity of an "item".  It could be considered the same as buying an item from a dollar store to some people.  That is fine.  I just think that everyone getting on Hasbro's case about all this is rediculous.  We love Ponies, right?  Hasbro makes ponies.  They are a huge company.  They need to make money to keep their company going, so they can make more ponies.  So why are we putting them down for doing what they can to keep their business operating/growing?

I don't know... I guess I just get really upset reading how everyone is 'poo pooing' on a company like this.  If I had stuff stolen and leaked all the time, I'd want to find out why and if I was a big company like Hasbro with little time to do it myself, I'd also hire someone and trust them to do their job properly.  I think the blame needs to be on the lawyers here, not on Hasbro themselves.

I think I may have gone off topic a bit. For that, I am sorry.  And I'm sorry if I sounded mean or offensive in any way.  I don't mean to at all.  I sincerely hope the workers in China are treated well and have good jobs.  I also hope this blogger is able to reconnect with his love of nerf guns and continue his blog after all this garbage he's gone through.  I just think a lot of people are getting angry at the wrong people and we need to step back a bit.  Just saying.  :)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: saply on April 24, 2012, 06:43:41 PM
I can hardly believe I've read through all this.  I still have one thing to say... it wasn't Hasbro that came to this guy's door.  It was the legal company they hired.  This guy should contact hasbro directly and tell them what the company they hired has done.  THEN see what happens.  This is a big company, it has been said so many times.  A big company like this would not care about the one little guy like him.  No, but they will hire some other company to look at why so much of their product is going missing/leaked.  I think everyone here pointing fingers at hasbro and saying they are a big bad company is a bit harsh.  The bigger the company, the harder it is to manage.  You have many people managing many areas, under many superior managers, eventually under a 'head' manager, and that 'head' is only going to hear about the big stuff because they can't possibly take the time for all the little things.  So the toys are made in China.  That is where they were able to make lots of toys cheaper and provide jobs for those many many people.  I don't know about the Chinese laws or about how Hasbro is treating their employees.  Apparently, they are holding to those laws.  Good.  In China, their laws are being upheld.  If the Chinese government wants to treat their people better, they will change their laws.  Not to mention, minimum wage differs from country to country, mainly based upon each country's cost of living.  We don't agree with it here, but that is the way it is there.  Perhaps Hasbro is going above and beyond?  If they weren't doing a good job, people wouldn't work there, would they?  Perhaps the people there love their job and are happy?  I don't know, honestly, but I do know that the media out here loves to twist and warp things to get 'a story', and the situations we think all factories out there are like may actually have only been one really bad factory.  Truth is in the eye of the beholder... and can easily be warped by our media. 

Anyway... if we know that the items on Taobao should not legally be sold in Canada or the USA, should we be buying them (to clarify, this is a question I've asked myself, for myself)? Now I am not going to get mad at people who buy stuff from Taobao... it is up to you, nobody really knows if the stuff is stolen, or if it is legal in China to do what they are doing or whatnot.  I myself will not buy from them.  I don't need that item that badly, and don't want to cause issues within myself over the validity of an "item".  It could be considered the same as buying an item from a dollar store to some people.  That is fine.  I just think that everyone getting on Hasbro's case about all this is rediculous.  We love Ponies, right?  Hasbro makes ponies.  They are a huge company.  They need to make money to keep their company going, so they can make more ponies.  So why are we putting them down for doing what they can to keep their business operating/growing?

I don't know... I guess I just get really upset reading how everyone is 'poo pooing' on a company like this.  If I had stuff stolen and leaked all the time, I'd want to find out why and if I was a big company like Hasbro with little time to do it myself, I'd also hire someone and trust them to do their job properly.  I think the blame needs to be on the lawyers here, not on Hasbro themselves.

I think I may have gone off topic a bit. For that, I am sorry.  And I'm sorry if I sounded mean or offensive in any way.  I don't mean to at all.  I sincerely hope the workers in China are treated well and have good jobs.  I also hope this blogger is able to reconnect with his love of nerf guns and continue his blog after all this garbage he's gone through.  I just think a lot of people are getting angry at the wrong people and we need to step back a bit.  Just saying.  :)
Just want to say this is a good post.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Wardah on April 24, 2012, 07:00:17 PM
Hasn't Hasbro been making their toys in China since before G1? I seem to remember China being on their hooves. They used to still package them here but the workers here got greedy and wanted more than double minimum wage and still have benefits. The situation in China is awful but the companies often had no other option unless they only wanted to sell to millionaires.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: StoryDreamer on April 24, 2012, 07:11:52 PM
I'm with hasbro - that's their property and they have a right to expect it to not be released early.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Snapdragon on April 24, 2012, 07:33:25 PM
Personally, I don't feel any pity for Hasbro for losing out on a few dollars when they are making MEGA $$$$ by setting up factories in countries without much care for workers' rights or decent pay.   Hasbro reaped the positive benefits of that setup . . . super cheap production costs.  Now they can deal with the negatives . . . workers so desperate for money that they are willing to risk losing their jobs by smuggling toys out of the factory and selling them for amazingly cheap prices. 


If it bothers them so much maybe they should bring their manufacturing back to the US where they have more control.  But to purposely move their work to somewhere with minimal government interest in having oversight of their factories, and then get all pissy because there is minimal government interest in enforcing copyright laws?   No.  The sword swings both ways.


Yep, all of this. If they have a problem with their toys being released early, they need to go to the source to stop it - harassing the buyers on a one-on-one basis isn't a good use of time, for one, and it's bullying for another. Gross, all around. >:[
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: WingsOfMasquerade on April 24, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
The key here is

"Never Attack Your Fans - ESPECIALLY very vocal super devoted ones who buy webspace on their own dime, for your product"

That'll turn more sour to them than anything else. 1 big blabbermouth is bad, but someone inciting all this rage at shady tactics is way something else. It turns free advertising into so much negativity. The Chinese people / taobao aren't fans. They can freely bother/shut them down without fan backlash.

But this raises an issue that'll be moreso in the future:
3D Printing & Selling the Fans What They Want

If they had just MADE a :muffin: Pony Hooves / Ditzy Doo, no one would of stolen one for big bucks
If they had just MADE White Celestia after everyone demanded one, stealing one wouldn't be needed

Stealing is wrong, but they can't stop the stealing. (making fans hate you is not the way to stop others from theiving)
What they CAN do stop is the reason people steal.

Lego is on the forefront of this, because their product is all 1 plastic, and can easily be 3D modeled.
As 3D printers pricedrop, Lego is going to have to deal with people replicating the bricks at home.

But, it has to do with MLP because Opalesence had it JUST right:
"The fans must shut up and do as we say till we tell them what to want, and also when to want it."

It is actually the way of it now: "No one wants G1, no one likes petites, those things would never sell"
But in the future, with this 3D printing (there's already PirateBay type stuff dedicated to it) they won't be able to say such things any more. But big companies tend to not see the solution either which is

Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas

There'll still be that 1% malcontent that steals because 'robbing is cool / 'the man' needs to get hit / trolls / whatever' but they'll never stop that. Only when it's widespread is it super harmful. But if you follow the above 3 things, it doesn't get widespread. Because the fans get what they want, when they want it and are happy with the product.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dyzarktarzk on April 24, 2012, 09:56:25 PM
Completely agree with you, WingsOfMasquerade

Stealing will never stop, sad thing.  But companies CAN stop it (a lot, actually) vy hearing their customers needs and wants as a first step.

About prototypes and unreleased products... why the toy fair's pics are so bad?  Shouldn't they promote what THEY REALLY HAVE in store for us, their customers?  Not having to search other places.  (And not to mention that having a 'mane 6' ponies is getting tiresome... as with the 'core 7'...)

I will not enter in the whole discussion about where the toy plants are, that's a whole other discussion.  But what can I say is:

If I, a customer, don't get something that I like from the 'official' producers, I'll search -or made- it.  Prototypes or un-released, and customs.

Going after the customers?  I can't understand what they're making customers angry at them, or even deciding to ditch the hobby out.  If they (Hasbro) are scared about the prototypes and unreleased toys being released unofficially, why not 'officially tease' with what is new?  FROM THEM.
Not with people loving this and freely promoting.  Searching through the whole internet about what is coming.

It sounds awful what Hasbro did.  I don't understand it (at least only the part where $$ is included... and not wanting customers and fans to know what's coming...  Only the find them when they decide to release their products at certain stores/countries, NOT WORLDWIDE).  If they are mad due to people buying things at 3X the real (...) value of an item to someone not related at Hasbro AT ALL (aka, a reseller, and Hasbro only making the original 1X)... they should and could solution it releasing all their product at the SAME TIME EVERYWHERE.

Sorry if this is a complete rant...  but...  it's what I have to write (say) about this.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: moonflower on April 25, 2012, 12:39:01 AM
Just read this on Wiki and thought it relevant:-

Quote
Over the years Hasbro has outsourced the manufacture of its products to third-party companies, mostly in China. At the Chinese factories, which Hasbro does not directly own or operate, migrant workers are compensated with meager salaries for their labor. At one such factory, in Dongguan, China, basic assembly line jobs pay a little over one hundred US dollars per month,[13] China's minimum wage.
In 2007, a workers' rights group investigated several of Hasbro's Chinese suppliers and found that, in one instance, a toy factory in China's Guangxi Province had hired 1000 junior high school students. The same group discovered other widespread labor violations, including unsafe working conditions, mandatory overtime, verbal abuse and sexual harassment of employees. Hasbro issued a statement, saying that it would "act swiftly and decisively in making any necessary changes" and had "increased the intensity of [its] ongoing safety review efforts." Critics counter that, as Hasbro has no official regulatory control of these factories, it responds to such investigations by acquiring independent auditors, who make unannounced visits to the East Asian subcontractors. Factory managers are then "coached" in how to fool the auditors.[14]
Outside Asia, Hasbro owns and operates only two manufacturing facilities, one in Waterford, Ireland, the other in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, USA. In recent years, the company has cut jobs at both plants in response to increasing competition from lower cost locations in China. At the end of 2006, for example, Hasbro's Irish division laid off more than one third of its workforce.

Also, I would just like to add that while I don't blame Hasbro for trying to track down where these unauthorised goods have come from, I do not agree the way they have victimised this individual. He took down the offending pictures (even though they were not his own and readily available on the internet) and answered the questions he was given and yet they still continued to harass him. Even though he was not contacted by Hasbro directly, I imagine Hasbro would have been CC'd in on the correspondence and therefore able to intervene. Surely, the way they obtained his address was illegal?

I think this guy should contact Hasbro regarding this issue and see what they have to say about it.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on April 25, 2012, 12:54:56 AM
Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas


This is the iTunes philosophy, and you have only to look at its phenomenal success to see that it works remarkably well for everyone involved.


Can you imagine if Hasbro offered people the opportunity to design their own custom ponies?  Upload your marking artwork, choose your colors, 4-6 weeks later it arrives at your door?  They'd make a killing.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: teresat on April 25, 2012, 01:07:34 AM
Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas


This is the iTunes philosophy, and you have only to look at its phenomenal success to see that it works remarkably well for everyone involved.


Can you imagine if Hasbro offered people the opportunity to design their own custom ponies?  Upload your marking artwork, choose your colors, 4-6 weeks later it arrives at your door?  They'd make a killing.

WingsofMasquerade: Yes!

Baby Sugarberry: All? the custom ponies I could want....

Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LuvlyMelody on April 25, 2012, 01:47:34 AM
I'm reading through this again, and wow a followup from the blog owner, looks like it's spread all around the internet (maybe even worldwide?).It looks like everyone's talking about it. It's all over many blogs on the bottom of this entry. What could happen next? Radio discussions? Youtube rants from Nerf collectors? boycott? be on the news? CNN? If this spreads, I wonder if this could be a huge cripple for Hasbro.

Someone effed up big time sending goon just to learn how to shop online. lol

http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/not-just-nerf-war-about-toy-guns.html (http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/not-just-nerf-war-about-toy-guns.html)


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Elisto on April 25, 2012, 05:18:03 AM
I disagree that if Hasbro just gave fans what they wanted, there wouldn't be a problem. Maybe it would make a difference in the case of the :muffin: Pony toys, but not the prototypes and errors. Those are going to exist no matter what, and collectors like rare stuff. That doesn't mean we have a right to own their "practice" pieces. And to say, well, they shouldn't advertise that they exist...they didn't! From what I understand, people went on Taobao, saw prototypes and other unusual-looking ponies, and bought them. Hasbro has nothing to do with it.

As for their factory worker treatment, I agree, it's probably bad, but 1) We don't know for sure what the conditions are, and 2) if it bothers you that much (which it does me), don't buy the toys at all. Not buy the toys officially released, buy the potentially stolen toys or fake toys, and then get mad at Hasbro's business practices only when Hasbro tries to stop the sale of things it didn't want sold.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Ice Crystal on April 25, 2012, 06:32:11 AM
Hasbro did start listening to fans eventually. The ponies they revealed at the toy fair were nothing but "fan favorites" (of their adult fans, not children) as they called them, and there was a white Celestia, too.

I'm pretty sure Hasbro knows about Taobao. Even if they didn't find out about it through this forum, there are large pony news sites that refer to it, and folks have written in to Hasbro to ask when such-and-such pony they found on Taobao will be released. Who knows how long Taobao has been around anyway? MLPs aren't the only leaked Hasbro products that can be found on there apparently. I don't blame them at all for cracking down--although I have to admit that I will miss the leaks and unique protoponies if they do.

I can't say much on the laws and ethics of the situation, honestly, so I'm not going to touch that. Most of the unreleased ponies I have seen being sold on Taobao have either been prototypes or factory rejects, all flawed, and they likely would have been tossed out anyway, so I can't see Hasbro losing money on them. I wonder if Hasbro is more worried about leaked products screwing up future advertising gigs? Or, as somebody else mentioned, Hasbro could get in trouble if a customer injured themselves while using an untested product, even though it was purchased through an auction site.

I do agree that the Nerf business is a touch shady on Hasbro's part though.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: NoDivision on April 25, 2012, 07:51:08 AM
Very interesting discussions... there's a lot of good points being raised, certainly gives us as collectors a lot to think about.
 
The only thing I have to add is that we cannot conclusively know that hasbro's legal team obtained his address from the person offering him free items. They could legitimately be unconnected. Sure the timing is very coincidental, but that's a heck of a stretch for someone to go to to get an address. The legal team contacted him as he is the owner of the website, and it is easy enough to obtain the registered addresses of domain owners that I find it hard to beleive they'd have to pull a bait and switch to get it.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: sabathamk on April 25, 2012, 08:49:41 AM
NoDivision, I was actually wondering if the two emails were connected at all as well.  It seems like they are due to timing, but I have to wonder, especially since he gave the address in the first case.  The email read kinda fake to me, honestly (I read through all his posted emails) and I would not have responded to such an email without actually going and directly contacting Hasbro myself rather than through this email (We have dealt with so many copycat scammers lately that it has been driving me nuts).  Something is very off about the whole scenario.  Really... I don't think Hasbro would care so much about the one guy who has been practically giving them free publicity.  It almost feels like one giant hoax.... but I could just be in denial.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: partypony566 on April 25, 2012, 09:55:22 AM
Regarding the Nerf thing, I think Hasbro clearly have too much time on their hands!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Lon-san on April 25, 2012, 10:34:18 AM
This is the iTunes philosophy, and you have only to look at its phenomenal success to see that it works remarkably well for everyone involved.


Can you imagine if Hasbro offered people the opportunity to design their own custom ponies?  Upload your marking artwork, choose your colors, 4-6 weeks later it arrives at your door?  They'd make a killing.

I've thought about this before. Mattel had a similar thing with Barbie once. I wonder how many colors/eyes/hair choices there would need to be to get people really interessted vs. it being profitable for Hasbro. I wonder how much something like that would cost per pony?
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: knitgirl on April 25, 2012, 10:42:37 AM
That idea of custom ponies is awesome! I think they should also do some 30th anniversary G1->G4 set for collectors.  I've seen so many gorgeous customs but that gets so expensive.  For starters, they could do a white unicorn pack with Gusty, Moondancer, and Glory... that would be so exciting for me! 
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Emfen on April 25, 2012, 11:06:42 AM
This whole incident makes me feelign less guilty of buying stoff from tabao now.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: JoshsPonyPrincess on April 25, 2012, 12:15:32 PM
I read through the whole thing and I am deeply disturbed at Hasbro's unprofessionalism. I realize they do not want prototypes leaked and whatnot but really sending people over to a bloggers house!?! This is ridiculous - they are JUST TOYS. They are meant for children not adults - I don't care how big the adult audience is for any toy - toys are originally intended for children (who shouldn't be googling anyway). They need to be going after the original perpetrators not someone who wrote about it.

If anything a blog showing what is coming up would be good for business as it gets the adult collectors excited and willing to pay the money they ask for it.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dragonflitter on April 25, 2012, 01:07:03 PM
The only thing I have to add is that we cannot conclusively know that hasbro's legal team obtained his address from the person offering him free items. They could legitimately be unconnected. Sure the timing is very coincidental, but that's a heck of a stretch for someone to go to to get an address.

THIS.

I am not saying the guy is making things up, but so far we only have one side of the story, his. We only have his viewpoint of how things are happening. The situation from the other viewpoint might be quite different indeed. What if Hasbro really was wanting to send him some free product for his blog?

The blogger himself states that Hasbro sent him another email asking for his mailing address a second time, after he had already received the lawyer letter. This to me implies that the two instances are not connected, like he assumes they are. Like NoDivision says, that's a pretty lengthy stretch to go to get someone's mailing address.

My final say: Don't believe everything you read in a blog or other website as if it were straight up 100% fact. At least think about it a bit to see if it makes sense. ;)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: AnnaPommes on April 25, 2012, 01:35:37 PM
i wonder what hasbro said about this.
i mean, does anyone know abount an official statement from hasbro ?
we can discuss a lot here, but we still don´t know how it was meant actually.
did someone once emailed the hasbro support and asked them about taobao leaks? XD
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Rhini on April 25, 2012, 02:11:09 PM
The only thing I have to add is that we cannot conclusively know that hasbro's legal team obtained his address from the person offering him free items. They could legitimately be unconnected. Sure the timing is very coincidental, but that's a heck of a stretch for someone to go to to get an address.

THIS.

I am not saying the guy is making things up, but so far we only have one side of the story, his. We only have his viewpoint of how things are happening. The situation from the other viewpoint might be quite different indeed. What if Hasbro really was wanting to send him some free product for his blog?

The blogger himself states that Hasbro sent him another email asking for his mailing address a second time, after he had already received the lawyer letter. This to me implies that the two instances are not connected, like he assumes they are. Like NoDivision says, that's a pretty lengthy stretch to go to get someone's mailing address.

My final say: Don't believe everything you read in a blog or other website as if it were straight up 100% fact. At least think about it a bit to see if it makes sense. ;)


Yea but what you have to realize is that short of tracking someone's IP address to their house using hacking/police methods, you probably can't obtain someone's address just from a handle they use as a blogger. Can I find your current home address with only your username on this forum? I don't think I could. They obviously thought that emailing him was insufficient and didn't think he would provide a physical location for himself, as I certainly would not, so they used underhanded methods.


Plus, why on earth would Hasbro offer free product to someone they are considering taking legal action against? Because I don't think their law firm would not act independently of Hasbro itself in terms of pursuing legal action against individuals. I would assume they would need to get some sort of go ahead from them first, and any person getting a go ahead to send free, unreleased product would likely have to speak to the same individuals and they would have raised a red flag.


As someone stated earlier too, we have to keep in mind that Hasbro Australia is not the same as Hasbro USA, and has shown in the past that they are not supportive of their fans at all.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dyzarktarzk on April 25, 2012, 02:26:40 PM
Another thing I've been thinking, not sure how many of you guys have thought about this issue:

I'd REALLY PREFER Hasbro ONLY released a certain amount of ponies PER YEAR (ie, 30), all DIFFERENT and ORIGINAL, than having 80 ponies, 70 of them being the same 'basic' ponies just with different accessories and/or playsets, and the new ponies (10) being bonus only available with the playset and pony released already (ie, I'd really the baby unicorn that is with Applejack, forgot the name, but I ALREADY HAVE 2 Applejacks, and want her no more).  If going to release playsets and accessories, why not release them without ponies?  Or with a really exclusive pony and not ponies already released?

Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 25, 2012, 04:43:08 PM
Quote
Hasbro’s Gibson hung up on Crikey  when we called her for comment, saying that “I’m not allowed to comment…I’m going to have to go” when asked whether the she had used the Pinpoint Sight offer to trick Yang into disclosing his address.

Translation:  "Yes, that is exactly what we did."
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: ShortyBoo on April 25, 2012, 04:46:15 PM
Another thing I've been thinking, not sure how many of you guys have thought about this issue:

I'd REALLY PREFER Hasbro ONLY released a certain amount of ponies PER YEAR (ie, 30), all DIFFERENT and ORIGINAL, than having 80 ponies, 70 of them being the same 'basic' ponies just with different accessories and/or playsets, and the new ponies (10) being bonus only available with the playset and pony released already (ie, I'd really the baby unicorn that is with Applejack, forgot the name, but I ALREADY HAVE 2 Applejacks, and want her no more).  If going to release playsets and accessories, why not release them without ponies?  Or with a really exclusive pony and not ponies already released?



I wish they'd offer the playset exclusive ponies separately on their website. I think that would be awesome if we had the option to buy Sweetie Swirl, Star Dreams, Star Swirl, Starbeam Twinkle, Skywishes, etc. by themselves for $5 or so directly from Hasbro. They wouldn't even have to bother with fancy packaging, just send them in clear plastic bags like they did with the G1 mail order ponies. It likely will never happen, but it would stop a lot of the TaoBao sales, I think.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: teresat on April 25, 2012, 04:59:07 PM
I wish they'd offer the playset exclusive ponies separately on their website. I think that would be awesome if we had the option to buy Sweetie Swirl, Star Dreams, Star Swirl, Starbeam Twinkle, Skywishes, etc. by themselves for $5 or so directly from Hasbro. They wouldn't even have to bother with fancy packaging, just send them in clear plastic bags like they did with the G1 mail order ponies. It likely will never happen, but it would stop a lot of the TaoBao sales, I think.

Really great idea.

Also, as far as new releases, this year has been really dry. We're almost 5 months into the year and only 2 new ponies have been *officially* released. If they released more *new* ponies, customers would not be stalking Taobao. Yes, we know more *new* ponies are coming but they have been slow.


Edited to add emphasis to "new" and not mane 6.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: NoDivision on April 25, 2012, 05:49:25 PM
Yea but what you have to realize is that short of tracking someone's IP address to their house using hacking/police methods, you probably can't obtain someone's address just from a handle they use as a blogger. Can I find your current home address with only your username on this forum? I don't think I could. They obviously thought that emailing him was insufficient and didn't think he would provide a physical location for himself, as I certainly would not, so they used underhanded methods.

We're not talking about a forum username though, we're talking about a doman registry. I can find basic info on who owns the doman in question by just doing a google search. The letter says "our searches show that you are the registrant of the doman urbantaggers.com" Ownership info for domains is pretty easy to find. If you work in legal, you can probably find far more information pretty easily. I'm just saying, I don't think a legal team would have to resort to trying to bribe someone with the promise of free toys - there are much easier ways for them to find the information.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Taxel on April 25, 2012, 05:55:13 PM
Yea but what you have to realize is that short of tracking someone's IP address to their house using hacking/police methods, you probably can't obtain someone's address just from a handle they use as a blogger. Can I find your current home address with only your username on this forum? I don't think I could. They obviously thought that emailing him was insufficient and didn't think he would provide a physical location for himself, as I certainly would not, so they used underhanded methods.

We're not talking about a forum username though, we're talking about a doman registry. I can find basic info on who owns the doman in question by just doing a google search. The letter says "our searches show that you are the registrant of the doman urbantaggers.com" Ownership info for domains is pretty easy to find. If you work in legal, you can probably find far more information pretty easily. I'm just saying, I don't think a legal team would have to resort to trying to bribe someone with the promise of free toys - there are much easier ways for them to find the information.

However they seemed to not understand Google, what auction/selling websites are, etc. They assumed that because he bought a product/found photos online he had the name, address, email, and IP address of the seller/owner of said items. They're internet retards.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: NoDivision on April 25, 2012, 06:01:12 PM
I also think it's presumptuous to asume that one single person is behind the whole inquiry. Just because one person doesn't seem to understand the concept of property on the internet doesn't mean someone else who was asked to find the address can't use google.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dyzarktarzk on April 25, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
I wish they'd offer the playset exclusive ponies separately on their website. I think that would be awesome if we had the option to buy Sweetie Swirl, Star Dreams, Star Swirl, Starbeam Twinkle, Skywishes, etc. by themselves for $5 or so directly from Hasbro. They wouldn't even have to bother with fancy packaging, just send them in clear plastic bags like they did with the G1 mail order ponies. It likely will never happen, but it would stop a lot of the TaoBao sales, I think.

Really great idea.

Also, as far as new releases, this year has been really dry. We're almost 5 months into the year and only 2 new ponies have been *officially* released. If they released more *new* ponies, customers would not be stalking Taobao. Yes, we know more *new* ponies are coming but they have been slow.


Edited to add emphasis to "new" and not mane 6.

And don't forget we do not have MO anymore...  *sad*  Only international exclusives that are part of another package...
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Lon-san on April 25, 2012, 06:52:11 PM

I wish they'd offer the playset exclusive ponies separately on their website. I think that would be awesome if we had the option to buy Sweetie Swirl, Star Dreams, Star Swirl, Starbeam Twinkle, Skywishes, etc. by themselves for $5 or so directly from Hasbro. They wouldn't even have to bother with fancy packaging, just send them in clear plastic bags like they did with the G1 mail order ponies. It likely will never happen, but it would stop a lot of the TaoBao sales, I think.

Oh man, I'd LOVE that. Even if they asked a little more than $5 because of the "specialness" it would still allow people to come out ahead of buying a whole playset or buying one at x3 the price.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: saply on April 25, 2012, 06:58:33 PM
I wish they'd offer the playset exclusive ponies separately on their website. I think that would be awesome if we had the option to buy Sweetie Swirl, Star Dreams, Star Swirl, Starbeam Twinkle, Skywishes, etc. by themselves for $5 or so directly from Hasbro. They wouldn't even have to bother with fancy packaging, just send them in clear plastic bags like they did with the G1 mail order ponies. It likely will never happen, but it would stop a lot of the TaoBao sales, I think.
I think Hasbro is crazy not to offer their own ponies on their website in a reliable supply. At that point, they wouldn't even have to pay a cut to third-party retailers like Target. I will admit this statement is bred from ignorance, and there could be good reasons for them not doing so, but to me it makes no sense!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: cobalte on April 25, 2012, 09:31:54 PM
Legal firms acting on behalf of a huge company using underhanded tactics to pressure an individual they are investigating? Well, I never!  :whistle:


Well, it doesn't surprise me that Hasbro as a whole are starting to investigate these things. I think technically the ponies would still be Hasbro property until released for sale, but don't quote me on that one. What makes me giggle is the seemingly internet-illiterate law firm. Then again, this sort of thing is rather typical in Australia it seems. You'd think the internet was only recently introduced here with some...


Though it looks like Hasbro AU has done a boo-boo on this one if the story is getting around that far.


 
I also want to add, as someone who has dealt with Hasbro Australia for pony fair here.  They are a bunch of tight wads.  We tried to get them involved in 3 fairs.  The first fair they were really pushy about what had to be included for them to be involved.  We followed all their guidelines, and they sent us a small sign with the mlp logo on it.  The second fair they wouldn't even talk to us, and the third they said they only give things to charities and cut communication.  So this may end up being Australia specific.



Hopes of a fairly ok branch of Hasbro being here, dashed a little more. :|


ETA: Also, it is highly possible that the branch of Hasbro in Australia does not know about Taobao. Those 'is this legit?' questions are mainly fielded to the Facebook page and representatives in the US - which I'm pretty sure are to do with the US branch, and not the Australian one. While Hasbro US or Europe reps may say they pop in here from time to time, there has been no word whether AU reps visit any other fansites at all apart from the one mentioned in the story. They may have only noticed the fansite when the US branch told them to do something about these pictures of unreleased products on an Australian website. Who knows?
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: NoDivision on April 26, 2012, 05:33:13 AM
Also, it is highly possible that the branch of Hasbro in Australia does not know about Taobao. Those 'is this legit?' questions are mainly fielded to the Facebook page and representatives in the US - which I'm pretty sure are to do with the US branch, and not the Australian one. While Hasbro US or Europe reps may say they pop in here from time to time, there has been no word whether AU reps visit any other fansites at all apart from the one mentioned in the story. They may have only noticed the fansite when the US branch told them to do something about these pictures of unreleased products on an Australian website. Who knows?

This is such a great point. This is something that keeps being glossed over as well. People keep talking about Hasbro like it is one big unified entity, when really the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that this particular division doesn't know how taobao works. Even if they are aware of its existence, they might not understand the purchasing process. It's not really that outlandish for them to think that the guy might have more information about the seller.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dragonflitter on April 26, 2012, 06:24:07 AM
Heck, it could be specifically the Nerf branch of the Australian branch of the Hasbro corporation that doesn't understand the existence of taobao... I very sincerely doubt the people in Hasbro who work on Nerf products in Australia are the same who work on the MLP products. This company is just huge.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Starie on April 26, 2012, 09:31:31 AM
Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas


This is the iTunes philosophy, and you have only to look at its phenomenal success to see that it works remarkably well for everyone involved.


Can you imagine if Hasbro offered people the opportunity to design their own custom ponies?  Upload your marking artwork, choose your colors, 4-6 weeks later it arrives at your door?  They'd make a killing.


I know this is really late but omg I love that idea *___* Too bad it'll never happen x3
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 26, 2012, 09:50:25 AM

Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas


I disagree with Apple's policy here...  First off, when is the cost of human suffering and lives worth ANY material object we might want to own?  We've all read the studies in the factories -it's no secret that these businesses have anti-suicide clauses in their employment contracts.   WHAT?!  And the nets...  *shudders*

I only partially agree with the statement that if Hasbro chooses to outsource its labor, it "Deserves what happens".  NO!  I think we should make it very clear to companies that its target markets, its shoppers, the consumers are NOT going to accept mistreatment of others so that someone else can have a shiny new gadget.  :(

I know that it's nearly impossible to change the manufacturing since the infrastructure has relocated but we can make it very clear that we want our products being made fairly and NOT at the expense of the workers.  :(  The more money Hasbro loses to black and grey market goods (like Taobao), and often the handmade market (because they didn't license), they simply use marketing tactics to ramp up sales and continue to wring what they can out of the production line.  :(

I'm all with Hasbro cracking down on piracy if it helps them move towards goals of improving the lives of their manufacturing team - they are MAKING our PONIES, after all!  It's not very fair if MeiMei works at the factory, making ponies for 12 hour shifts and then her coworkers Wong, Yuo, and Ping "screw up" the machine and make some "factory errors" to sell on Taobao for extra money, while MeiMei gets only her wages and her lodging.   Even if they are doing this with the manager's permission ($$$ or some form of graft involved - maybe a few rounds of drinks after work?), it isn't fair to ALL the workers in the factory, so I find it very questionable to support.

Maybe that last example makes more sense - or absolutely none....
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Starie on April 26, 2012, 10:02:05 AM

Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas


I disagree with Apple's policy here...  First off, when is the cost of human suffering and lives worth ANY material object we might want to own?  We've all read the studies in the factories -it's no secret that these businesses have anti-suicide clauses in their employment contracts.   WHAT?!  And the nets...  *shudders*

I only partially agree with the statement that if Hasbro chooses to outsource its labor, it "Deserves what happens".  NO!  I think we should make it very clear to companies that its target markets, its shoppers, the consumers are NOT going to accept mistreatment of others so that someone else can have a shiny new gadget.  :(

I know that it's nearly impossible to change the manufacturing since the infrastructure has relocated but we can make it very clear that we want our products being made fairly and NOT at the expense of the workers.  :(  The more money Hasbro loses to black and grey market goods (like Taobao), and often the handmade market (because they didn't license), they simply use marketing tactics to ramp up sales and continue to wring what they can out of the production line.  :(

I'm all with Hasbro cracking down on piracy if it helps them move towards goals of improving the lives of their manufacturing team - they are MAKING our PONIES, after all!  It's not very fair if MeiMei works at the factory, making ponies for 12 hour shifts and then her coworkers Wong, Yuo, and Ping "screw up" the machine and make some "factory errors" to sell on Taobao for extra money, while MeiMei gets only her wages and her lodging.   Even if they are doing this with the manager's permission ($$$ or some form of graft involved - maybe a few rounds of drinks after work?), it isn't fair to ALL the workers in the factory, so I find it very questionable to support.

Maybe that last example makes more sense - or absolutely none....


I understood it and I think it's an excellent point to bring up, one that I don't think anyone has brought up before. It's hard to justify helping only a few people in need who have connections rather than a whole company of maltreated people, but is there a solution? Chinese factories work under different laws and different wages. Hasbro is obviously not going to just give them a better working environment and better wages since that would cut into their profit margins.




That being said, my opinion on this whole issue is that while it would be a bummer to not see any new upcoming toys before they are released, Hasbro has the right to crack down on early released goods if they wish. Now, on the other hand if what the blogger says is true (and it does seem true I'm not sure why someone would fabricate a story like that) then Hasbro used underhanded measures and almost scare-tactics on a third party who isn't even related to the production and online selling of early products. That is just not right in my opinion (especially that whole scheme/ e-mail to get their address? I mean ridiculous if the two are connected, and my gut instinct is telling me that they are)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: sabathamk on April 28, 2012, 08:03:48 AM
The only thing I have to add is that we cannot conclusively know that hasbro's legal team obtained his address from the person offering him free items. They could legitimately be unconnected. Sure the timing is very coincidental, but that's a heck of a stretch for someone to go to to get an address.

THIS.

I am not saying the guy is making things up, but so far we only have one side of the story, his. We only have his viewpoint of how things are happening. The situation from the other viewpoint might be quite different indeed. What if Hasbro really was wanting to send him some free product for his blog?

The blogger himself states that Hasbro sent him another email asking for his mailing address a second time, after he had already received the lawyer letter. This to me implies that the two instances are not connected, like he assumes they are. Like NoDivision says, that's a pretty lengthy stretch to go to get someone's mailing address.

My final say: Don't believe everything you read in a blog or other website as if it were straight up 100% fact. At least think about it a bit to see if it makes sense. ;)

I agree 100%  :)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: StoryDreamer on April 28, 2012, 08:26:20 AM
Regarding Apple, a lot of Mike Daisey's claims of conditions in the Apple factories were made-up. (If you're going off those)

Maybe they are "error" ponies taken from factories in the middle of production/errors/samples. But I also have a feeling that the factory workers are actually selling these to a middleman who brokers the deals. Possibly because they wouldn't want their name associated with them.  Who's to say the factory worker isn't getting taken either by a broker?

And I don't think bad about Hasbro for trying to crack down on somebody making money off their legal property. I liken these 'leaks' to anything like a song, book, etc, being sold early. There's heavy penalties (if you sold Harry Potter books early you'd have to  pay fines of $250,000).  Yeah sure Hasbro is a multimillion dollar corporation, but the designers, marketers, etc, aren't making millions. They worked on those toys too, just like the factory workers.  And it's their ideas and content that is being sold on a black market.


Analogy time:  There's a copy of Avengers right now. On Ebay. I can buy it! Yay (this is all hypothetical). I'm going to review it on my website. I'll show images from the movie - unreleased images - etc.  Yeah, Marvel/Disney/etc will be at my door in a heartbeat if I did that.


Just because it's available online doesn't mean he had to buy it.
 
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: michelle53 on April 28, 2012, 10:52:35 AM
I'd like to add my thoughts on this.  Hasbro Italy asked to borrow ponies from SoSilvers personal collection.  They invited him to their facility, offered him some merchandise and gave him some inside information about upcoming releases.  They trusted him with company info.  To me, that shows me that they respect him as a collector and MLP fan.  To SoSilver's credit, he did not once disclose anything that Hasbro told him in confidence.  A relationship between company and collector based off mutual respect is a beautiful thing.

Hasbro, we love you.  We love your ponies.  We will always be around to buy your products.  Please respect us enough to offer international releases and bonus ponies on your official website for purchase.  What is there to lose?  I mean it's not like you're getting a piece of the eBay action either?!  In turn Hasbro, we will respect your product releases and buy official releases!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: RedheadedBeauty on April 28, 2012, 11:36:24 AM
I would love to see those exclusives made easy to buy using Hasbro's site. Even if they sold them for a few dollars more fine. They get the money I get the pony it's a win win. Come on Hasbro you know this would be a huge financial gain for you. Not only from collectors buy from parents buying something they haven't seen in stores for their little pony crazed child.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Gingerbread on April 28, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Not even just the exclusives but if Hasbro sold the factory 'rejects' they would still make money! Rejects to Hasbro are sought-after ponies for collectors.

Of course for this to work Hasbro would have to ship to other countries, not just the USA. *grumbles*
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Dyzarktarzk on April 28, 2012, 03:32:10 PM
I'd like to add my thoughts on this.  Hasbro Italy asked to borrow ponies from SoSilvers personal collection.  They invited him to their facility, offered him some merchandise and gave him some inside information about upcoming releases.  They trusted him with company info.  To me, that shows me that they respect him as a collector and MLP fan.  To SoSilver's credit, he did not once disclose anything that Hasbro told him in confidence.  A relationship between company and collector based off mutual respect is a beautiful thing.

Hasbro, we love you.  We love your ponies.  We will always be around to buy your products.  Please respect us enough to offer international releases and bonus ponies on your official website for purchase.  What is there to lose?  I mean it's not like you're getting a piece of the eBay action either?!  In turn Hasbro, we will respect your product releases and buy official releases!


And please, don't forget Hasbro SELLING internationally... not only to USA.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 28, 2012, 04:59:22 PM
I'd like to add my thoughts on this.  Hasbro Italy asked to borrow ponies from SoSilvers personal collection.  They invited him to their facility, offered him some merchandise and gave him some inside information about upcoming releases.  They trusted him with company info.  To me, that shows me that they respect him as a collector and MLP fan.  To SoSilver's credit, he did not once disclose anything that Hasbro told him in confidence.  A relationship between company and collector based off mutual respect is a beautiful thing.

Hasbro, we love you.  We love your ponies.  We will always be around to buy your products.  Please respect us enough to offer international releases and bonus ponies on your official website for purchase.  What is there to lose?  I mean it's not like you're getting a piece of the eBay action either?!  In turn Hasbro, we will respect your product releases and buy official releases!

That was beautiful . . . Well said.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 29, 2012, 10:06:37 AM
I'd like to add my thoughts on this.  Hasbro Italy asked to borrow ponies from SoSilvers personal collection.  They invited him to their facility, offered him some merchandise and gave him some inside information about upcoming releases.  They trusted him with company info.  To me, that shows me that they respect him as a collector and MLP fan.  To SoSilver's credit, he did not once disclose anything that Hasbro told him in confidence.  A relationship between company and collector based off mutual respect is a beautiful thing.

Hasbro, we love you.  We love your ponies.  We will always be around to buy your products.  Please respect us enough to offer international releases and bonus ponies on your official website for purchase.  What is there to lose?  I mean it's not like you're getting a piece of the eBay action either?!  In turn Hasbro, we will respect your product releases and buy official releases!

I was thinking of Hasbro Italy as a great example of WHY we shouldn't hate ALL THE TIME.  ;)
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: nullcherri on April 29, 2012, 01:00:15 PM


Lego is on the forefront of this, because their product is all 1 plastic, and can easily be 3D modeled.
As 3D printers pricedrop, Lego is going to have to deal with people replicating the bricks at home.


That's still pretty far in the future. Color 3D printing, and at high resolution, is still very expensive.

Your lego bricks wouldn't fit together right if it had the jaggy edges of typical printed objects. :]

But I sure can't wait to have my very own 3D printer! :D
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: SheRa-dude on April 29, 2012, 01:28:48 PM
We've all read the studies in the factories -it's no secret that these businesses have anti-suicide clauses in their employment contracts.   WHAT?!  And the nets...  *shudders*

Please elaborate, 'cause that's just plain freaky...
Want to read more on this !
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: Lon-san on April 29, 2012, 02:16:00 PM
And please, don't forget Hasbro SELLING internationally... not only to USA.

Indeed!

I wish there was a way to limit purchases and keep out scalpers with something like that without it being a problem for groups of friends just trying to save a little money by shipping together.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites
Post by: StarFaerie on May 02, 2012, 01:28:40 AM
And we have a response by Hasbro to Kotaku:

"We appreciate the opportunity to provide the following statement concerning Hasbro's investigation into "leaked" IP information regarding its NERF brand products. As with anything, there are two sides to every story. While we cannot comment on the details of any ongoing investigation, Hasbro takes all circumstances of its stolen and leaked IP very seriously and will continue to investigate sources of unauthorized information and products as it relates to its brands. We would like to clarify one of the inaccuracies that has been reported. While a local Hasbro Australia marketing team did reach out to the Urban Taggers website to engage in promotional activity for which it required its address, it was completely unrelated to the confidential global investigation being conducted on Hasbro's behalf by independent investigators looking into sources of leaked IP information. Hasbro greatly values and appreciates its fan communities and is very proud of its strong relationships with many bloggers and sites that cover our brands and products."

So it was Hasbro USA with the lawyers and Hired Goons and Hasbro Australia were unaware of it so still trying to do their marketing. Big companies just don't talk internally sometimes, silly things.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on May 02, 2012, 01:50:21 AM
And we're going to swallow that hook, line and sinker?


Let me direct your attention to exhibits A and B, the "no white Celestia" and "no Blind Bags for the US" claims by Hasbro... at this point of *course* they are going to cover ass and say it wasn't related, even if it was.  (And it might be the truth, but don't believe it just because that's what they've said "officially".)



Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Taxel on May 02, 2012, 02:01:54 AM
Yeah, what Baby Sugarberry said.

I don't believe a word of that. They'd never admit it if they tricked someone into giving out personal info with the promise of freebies, and honestly I don't doubt for a minute that they'd do that. I may like MLP but that doesn't mean I trust or like Hasbro in any way.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: moonflower on May 02, 2012, 02:30:52 AM
I second what Baby Sugarberry and Taxel said.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 02, 2012, 05:17:22 AM
I'm sorry, I don't believe a word of it.

Note how the first part of their response is "There are two sides to every story, but we're not going to tell you our side.  JUST TRUST US, OKAY??"   When has a company ever turned away from positive publicity?  Why would they keep silent if "their side of the story" was soooo compelling?

I still can't get over the fact that Hasbro was too dumb to Google for the images before they started harassing that poor guy.   Is Hasbro Australia really that stupid?   Are they over there pecking away at typewriters, longingly wishing they understood how the mysterious Interwebs work?
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on May 02, 2012, 08:04:36 AM
We've all read the studies in the factories -it's no secret that these businesses have anti-suicide clauses in their employment contracts.   WHAT?!  And the nets...  *shudders*

Please elaborate, 'cause that's just plain freaky...
Want to read more on this !

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_joelinchina/all/1

To answer your question, the anti-suicide clauses came about because employees were killing themselves due to the stress and their families were receiving the wages as payout from an industrial accident.  But now if you kill yourself, your family doesn't get any of the money you had earned because it's "not an industrial accident".  :(
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Wardah on May 02, 2012, 10:48:40 PM
I actually do believe it but not because I think Hasbro (or any big company for that matter) is all about sunshine and rainbows. I think it is entirely possible for divisions of a company not to know what the other is doing. I also don't think a legal team is that internet illiterate that they can't find out his address themselves. Especially since communications from lawyers are one of the few types of mail that doesn't require permission. Hasbro Australia might be required to verbally get permission before they can send things to someone.

I don't think Hasbro would be so dumb as to intentionally risk the bad press. Companies like Hasbro try to avoid bad press as much as possible. They have been very supportive of the pony community and if they really were all that bad they would not have supported us so much. The worst thing I could think of is they were not aware of the tactics their lawyers were using and don't want to admit their mistake. Anyways what kind of evidence can they use to prove that it was just a coincidence? I really can't think of any.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: lunar_scythe on May 03, 2012, 02:45:50 AM
*shrugs* large companies like Hasbro don't always keep the best track of what is going on, we know that.  Last year, at the Hasbro Toy Shop, they weren't even aware that the stock they had on the shelves was not yet available, and didn't even stock up extra ponies for the tours they gave us *knowing* we were collectors...it's not such a stretch to me that the lawyers are doing one thing when the market analysis people are doing the opposite.

In my area, a good sized company, on advice from their lawyers, change the font and size of their name on delivery truck to the smallest allowed, to avoid people deliberately wrecking then trying to sue...at the same time, the marketing department *increased* the size of the name and logo to the biggest they could fit on the sides of the trucks, to increase product awareness.  So currently, there are trucks with the company name small, and trailers with the name as large as possible, and neither the marketing nor the legal department are happy, hehe!
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 03, 2012, 04:48:46 AM
 :mad:All the Hasbro lawyers would've had to do is use a legal database for the bloggers name and address. If his first name or last name was anywhere on that website/online, that's all they would've had to do.

And legal as in for lawyers/civil proceedings/etc. Those same databases can also identify your neighbors, relatives and years worth of previous addresses.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: NoDivision on May 03, 2012, 07:43:28 AM
I have to say that for people who buy and love habro products, there's an awful lot of people who seem to completely hate hasbro here. How many examples do we have all over this board of Hasbro giving people free products? They do it all the time. And yet you're all convinced there is no possible way that an australian hasbro rep could be capable of actually trying to do a nice thing for this guy by wanting to give him free stuff, and that it could be unrelated. The conspiracy theories are getting a bit much, seriously.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Bronley on May 03, 2012, 08:16:43 AM
:mad:All the Hasbro lawyers would've had to do is use a legal database for the bloggers name and address. If his first name or last name was anywhere on that website/online, that's all they would've had to do.

And legal as in for lawyers/civil proceedings/etc. Those same databases can also identify your neighbors, relatives and years worth of previous addresses.
But they DID use normal legal methods to get the blogger's address! Go read the blogger's posts on the blog itself! They believe Hasbro's statement that the 2 incidents were unrelated.
Quote
It looks like they are trying to look into this issue.  From the statement it does seem to be a horrible case of poor internal communication among all the parties concerned - maybe me, too because there have been heaps of people telling me that sending investigators to your door on a Sunday afternoon thing is very normal for enforcement investigations even in Australia. They've also explained to me why people do it.  If I'd known that before, maybe I wouldn't have been so freaked out.
 
 Before any one asks, no I have not received the pinpoints and it's just a shame that the timing of the letters (all of them) seems to have been so unlucky.  Thanks all for your support.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: TokiBear on May 03, 2012, 08:51:03 AM
I have to say that for people who buy and love habro products, there's an awful lot of people who seem to completely hate hasbro here. How many examples do we have all over this board of Hasbro giving people free products? They do it all the time. And yet you're all convinced there is no possible way that an australian hasbro rep could be capable of actually trying to do a nice thing for this guy by wanting to give him free stuff, and that it could be unrelated. The conspiracy theories are getting a bit much, seriously.

Very well said NoDivision!  I couldn't agree with you more.  While the whole situation seems a bit shady... I don't see anything connecting what the lawyers did with Hasbro wanting to give the blogger free stuff.  We see it here all the time... Hasbro has kept very good relations with us and is very supportive of the community.  What I'm starting to think is that the way the shake down happened was all on the law firm.  I'm sure Hasbro wanted to know where he was getting his info but after that, Hasbro most likely had nothing to do with how the law firm went about obtaining that information.  I believe Hasbro has every right to protect their products from piracy and early leaking if they so choose.  I know its really nice to see what we may be seeing in the future and even being able to get those things before they are released via taobao but if Hasbro wants it to stop, they have every right to make sure that it does stop.  Its one thing for people to make custom ponies its another thing entirely when you're dealing with goods that Hasbro doesn't want released yet.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: StoryDreamer on May 03, 2012, 08:55:54 AM
How did that mad smiley get in my post? Stupi phone. I work with publishers as a blogger and sometimes the publicists forget who they send pitch emails to or send duplicate merchandise to bloggers etc. It happens. Ii think it was a coincidence. And I love Hasbro.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Pangel on May 03, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
I'd accept it was 'coincidence' if the blogger actually received the promotional products.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Wardah on May 03, 2012, 04:49:34 PM
They probably aren't going to send them now that they know he was in trouble with the main branch. Maybe the Australia branch wouldn't have known about the issue  if he hadn't mentioned it on his blog but now they do.

I think some people just love to rag on big companies that manufacture things in China since the job market here is so awful. But I really don't blame companies for moving the jobs over seas. I don't blame the workers either. I blame the fact that our system has been broken for so long for it. If doctors didn't have to pay back such huge loans for their education, they wouldn't have to charge so much. If they didn't charge so much, employers wouldn't need to pay so much for medical coverage. If medical coverage didn't cost so much jobs could have stayed here.

And that isn't counting how much the banks have skewed everything else.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Taxel on May 03, 2012, 05:38:09 PM
Just because you like a toy doesn't mean you have to like the company that makes it. Liking a 30 year old toy doesn't mean you like the new toys, how the company handles itself currently, etc. XP And heck I used to collect G4 but Hasbro's horrid quality and shade from a G4 playset destroying my ponies forced me to trade away the ones I own and stop collecting them. I realize some people don't care about poor quality and will keep buying them and supporting Hasbro and whatnot, but I sure won't. Collecting G1-3.5 does not mean I have to like Hasbro in its current form or support it in any way. I'm an MLP fan, not a Hasbro fan.

And just because a company has done nice things in the past doesn't mean it won't do/hasn't done terrible things and we should trust everything they tell us 100% of the time and that they wouldn't lie.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Wardah on May 03, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
The problem is there is no way to prove what is the truth and what isn't. Just because they are a reasonably large company doesn't automatically mean they always lie and we can never trust them. At least they never slunk around trade events stealing secrets and sued another toy company just because they were outselling them. *coughMattelcough* (I actually like several Mattel products like Monster High but I don't like the way they deal with their competition at all)

I am studying Graphic Design and the University I am going to has internship agreements with Hasbro. When I get enough credits under my belt I sincerely hope to intern there. I highly doubt Mattel would ever dream of even giving the time of day to someone unless they have years and years of experience.  Maybe it is my Rhode Island pride showing but from what I have heard from people that have interned there that it doesn't feel like they are working for a large company.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Rhini on May 03, 2012, 09:42:21 PM
I am studying Graphic Design and the University I am going to has internship agreements with Hasbro. When I get enough credits under my belt I sincerely hope to intern there. I highly doubt Mattel would ever dream of even giving the time of day to someone unless they have years and years of experience.
That's where you're wrong Wardah, everyone needs interns! They do all the grunt work no one else wants to do or has time for xD I like to imagine Mattel having tons of little Barbie interns ready to pull their hair out over something silly like what color shoes the new summer barbie should wear :P

But in all seriousness I agree, this is a he says she says situation and the blogger was only ever speculating the incidents were related anyways. No matter which side is true, I think we can all agree Hasbro Australia's legal team overreacted and took steps that were unnecessarily intimating.  I think we should just be more mindful and respectful in the future and no one will have problems.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: BrightIdea on May 04, 2012, 05:18:59 AM
Man that Nerf gun story is a strange one.  Very weird legal tactics! 


Anyways, I think toy guns are a little different than ponies, so I don't think anyone should worry. I am betting that the legal team is cracking down on the distribution of unreleased Nerf guns, so they don't get sued. If someone had an untested or unreleased toy and managed to poke their eye out with it somehow, they could look at the gun and say "Hasbro made this" and then turn around and sue them.


I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


Anyways, I hope that Nerf guy will still enjoy his hobby after all of his troubles.











Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Malicieuse on May 04, 2012, 08:00:31 AM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P

So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: BrightIdea on May 04, 2012, 08:32:44 AM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P

So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


Nope, I am simply saying we don't know anything. (other than Hasbro took legal action on the Nerf guy of course).
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Bronley on May 04, 2012, 09:56:35 AM
Nope, I am simply saying we don't know anything. (other than Hasbro took legal action on the Nerf guy of course).
I wouldn't say Hasbro has "taken legal action on the Nerf guy" - some lawyers sent him a letter and then asked him some questions.

Quote from an update by the blogger (http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/clarifications-on-this-hasbro-saga.html):
Quote
To the best of my knowledge - I have not been "sued".  Hasbro's lawyers issued a letter on 21 March with which I complied.  I then voluntarily took the blog down for a month to ensure I had complied with their request - I was not ordered to do so but wanted to on my own.  I have provided Baker & McKenzie with all of the information that I can - the rest of the information that they are seeking, I do not have.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: BrightIdea on May 04, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
Nope, I am simply saying we don't know anything. (other than Hasbro took legal action on the Nerf guy of course).
I wouldn't say Hasbro has "taken legal action on the Nerf guy" - some lawyers sent him a letter and then asked him some questions.

Quote from an update by the blogger (http://urbantaggers.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/clarifications-on-this-hasbro-saga.html):
Quote
To the best of my knowledge - I have not been "sued".  Hasbro's lawyers issued a letter on 21 March with which I complied.  I then voluntarily took the blog down for a month to ensure I had complied with their request - I was not ordered to do so but wanted to on my own.  I have provided Baker & McKenzie with all of the information that I can - the rest of the information that they are seeking, I do not have.


Yes I read this already.  I didn't say they sued him or anything, I thought lawyers sending letters could be a "legal action" of sorts.  Please forgive me for mis-typing then, I am really really reeeallly tired.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: WickedWonderland on May 04, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
I think this is a little different. My Little pony designs have already been established whereas someone could easily copy a prototype nerf design and market it as their own.


I can see them firing taobao members for taking company property, so if they're involved with leaking nerf stuff as well as ponies it might cut off our resources.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: teresat on May 04, 2012, 05:10:06 PM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


I just came up with a possibly new theory on this (I don't think anyone has mentioned this before.) Hasbro could be leaking a few unreleased ponies to follow the trail. This reminds me of another situation. I remember an author making distinctive edits in copies of her unpublished novels so she knew exactly who was leaking her story.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: xeevee on May 04, 2012, 08:12:27 PM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


It could be that it is perfectly acceptable for employees to take home unused prototypes or factory seconds.  My dad used to work for a radio station, and it was perfectly acceptable for him to take home promotional records after they were finished with them at the station.  And he was just the cleaner.  You have NO IDEA what happens in the factory.  Or what is fine or not fine.  Things in China are different to things in America.  I know, I'm in China RIGHT NOW!!  The people are generally speaking very honest.  Stealing is not something people do in the same way as they do in Western countries.  To decorate gardens they use little plastic pot plants that they interchange with different flowers in so they can always be in bloom.  No one ever takes them.  If that happened in Australia, I know for a fact those flowers would be gone over night.  The people in China are (as a rule) very hard working, and they work for next to no money.  You don't think its possible that maybe, factories let them take unwanted or unusual merchandise home for their kids?  Or let them buy the rejected stuff for cost? 

Stop making broad sweeping statements based on how things are done in your country.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Wardah on May 04, 2012, 10:03:15 PM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


It could be that it is perfectly acceptable for employees to take home unused prototypes or factory seconds.  My dad used to work for a radio station, and it was perfectly acceptable for him to take home promotional records after they were finished with them at the station.  And he was just the cleaner.  You have NO IDEA what happens in the factory.  Or what is fine or not fine.  Things in China are different to things in America.  I know, I'm in China RIGHT NOW!!  The people are generally speaking very honest.  Stealing is not something people do in the same way as they do in Western countries.  To decorate gardens they use little plastic pot plants that they interchange with different flowers in so they can always be in bloom.  No one ever takes them.  If that happened in Australia, I know for a fact those flowers would be gone over night.  The people in China are (as a rule) very hard working, and they work for next to no money.  You don't think its possible that maybe, factories let them take unwanted or unusual merchandise home for their kids?  Or let them buy the rejected stuff for cost? 

Stop making broad sweeping statements based on how things are done in your country.

Even if they are being allowed to take them home I doubt Hasbro wants them being resold. If anything for the reason that if they are rejects then Hasbro wouldn't want someone to buy one and think that it is standard Hasbro quality. With clothes if they are seconds the tag generally gets snipped out so as not to not reveal the label's name. You kind of can't do that with a pony since even if they scrape off the Hasbro name it is still obvious it is a My Little Pony.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: xeevee on May 05, 2012, 04:32:37 AM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


It could be that it is perfectly acceptable for employees to take home unused prototypes or factory seconds.  My dad used to work for a radio station, and it was perfectly acceptable for him to take home promotional records after they were finished with them at the station.  And he was just the cleaner.  You have NO IDEA what happens in the factory.  Or what is fine or not fine.  Things in China are different to things in America.  I know, I'm in China RIGHT NOW!!  The people are generally speaking very honest.  Stealing is not something people do in the same way as they do in Western countries.  To decorate gardens they use little plastic pot plants that they interchange with different flowers in so they can always be in bloom.  No one ever takes them.  If that happened in Australia, I know for a fact those flowers would be gone over night.  The people in China are (as a rule) very hard working, and they work for next to no money.  You don't think its possible that maybe, factories let them take unwanted or unusual merchandise home for their kids?  Or let them buy the rejected stuff for cost? 

Stop making broad sweeping statements based on how things are done in your country.

Even if they are being allowed to take them home I doubt Hasbro wants them being resold. If anything for the reason that if they are rejects then Hasbro wouldn't want someone to buy one and think that it is standard Hasbro quality. With clothes if they are seconds the tag generally gets snipped out so as not to not reveal the label's name. You kind of can't do that with a pony since even if they scrape off the Hasbro name it is still obvious it is a My Little Pony.

That may be true, and they may not like it.  But I state once again.  They are taking advantage of people because they live in a country with poor human rights.  If they want to take advantage of people, they can only expect to have this happen.  I can tell you right now, if I was earning less in a day than I needed to live, I would also sell factory seconds to help me pay my bills.  It isn't against the law here.  Hasbro knows that.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Wardah on May 05, 2012, 10:31:57 AM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


It could be that it is perfectly acceptable for employees to take home unused prototypes or factory seconds.  My dad used to work for a radio station, and it was perfectly acceptable for him to take home promotional records after they were finished with them at the station.  And he was just the cleaner.  You have NO IDEA what happens in the factory.  Or what is fine or not fine.  Things in China are different to things in America.  I know, I'm in China RIGHT NOW!!  The people are generally speaking very honest.  Stealing is not something people do in the same way as they do in Western countries.  To decorate gardens they use little plastic pot plants that they interchange with different flowers in so they can always be in bloom.  No one ever takes them.  If that happened in Australia, I know for a fact those flowers would be gone over night.  The people in China are (as a rule) very hard working, and they work for next to no money.  You don't think its possible that maybe, factories let them take unwanted or unusual merchandise home for their kids?  Or let them buy the rejected stuff for cost? 

Stop making broad sweeping statements based on how things are done in your country.

Even if they are being allowed to take them home I doubt Hasbro wants them being resold. If anything for the reason that if they are rejects then Hasbro wouldn't want someone to buy one and think that it is standard Hasbro quality. With clothes if they are seconds the tag generally gets snipped out so as not to not reveal the label's name. You kind of can't do that with a pony since even if they scrape off the Hasbro name it is still obvious it is a My Little Pony.

That may be true, and they may not like it.  But I state once again.  They are taking advantage of people because they live in a country with poor human rights.  If they want to take advantage of people, they can only expect to have this happen.  I can tell you right now, if I was earning less in a day than I needed to live, I would also sell factory seconds to help me pay my bills.  It isn't against the law here.  Hasbro knows that.

I have mentioned this before but the companies had no choice to move production overseas. It had gotten too expensive to hire American labor. The system here is fabulously broken. Minimum wage here isn't even enough to live on either. But if they raised minimum wage (which in turn ratchets up all wages) everything would cost more and then the workers still wouldn't be able to afford to live on it. The biggest expense most people have, besides their student loans, is fuel related. No matter if it is gas for their cars, heat for their homes, or electricity (which is generated by fossil fuels) it all comes from the same expensive place. Until we fix those things it will always be too expensive to manufacture here.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: Malicieuse on May 05, 2012, 11:44:50 AM

I saw a few people were saying things like"everyone knows those Taobao ponies are stolen". I don't think any of us went to China and watched someone shove ponies in their pockets and run out of the factory with them, then saw that same person put their stolen merchandise up for sale on Taobao.  :P


So you are saying Hasbro is selling those prototypes, test runs and unreleased products to the Chinese market? : P (Or giving them away for free to some random workers?) I'm sorry but most companies don't like it when unreleased products get onto the market. As seen with these Nerf guns. The idea that these products got stolen is a very likely one.


It could be that it is perfectly acceptable for employees to take home unused prototypes or factory seconds.  My dad used to work for a radio station, and it was perfectly acceptable for him to take home promotional records after they were finished with them at the station.  And he was just the cleaner.  You have NO IDEA what happens in the factory.  Or what is fine or not fine.  Things in China are different to things in America.  I know, I'm in China RIGHT NOW!!  The people are generally speaking very honest.  Stealing is not something people do in the same way as they do in Western countries.  To decorate gardens they use little plastic pot plants that they interchange with different flowers in so they can always be in bloom.  No one ever takes them.  If that happened in Australia, I know for a fact those flowers would be gone over night.  The people in China are (as a rule) very hard working, and they work for next to no money.  You don't think its possible that maybe, factories let them take unwanted or unusual merchandise home for their kids?  Or let them buy the rejected stuff for cost? 

Stop making broad sweeping statements based on how things are done in your country.

Sorry but didn't you just make a lot of broad "sweeping statements" either? : /
Yes, it's possible they got those toys "legit" but it is also very much possible they got stolen. Frankly, since Hasbro is hunting these people down i doubt that it is that "perfectly acceptable" to just take products. Some of them, like the boxed Cadance and Shining armor set, are not really unwanted or unusual merchandise either.
Title: Re: Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7
Post by: ashes on May 05, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Locking as this has been discussed enough.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal