The MLP Arena
Creativity => Customs => Topic started by: Blackmp on July 21, 2017, 08:51:25 PM
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Ok,
I am not new to customizing. I am a long time Barbie/Monster customizer.
I was on youtube and saw a galaxy pony repaint that I loved. I have a very beat up, discolored pony, that I think would be a great candidate for this project.
However the customizer used nail polish on the pony. I don't use nail polish in my work. So is nail polish ok to use? Or are there issues with it?
My thought was to use aryclics on her for a full repaint.
Any advice is welcome.
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Don't use nail polish, acrylic is the way to go :) Nail polish is not suitable for long lasting projects in my opinion.
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I recommend glossy Testors or Model Masters brand Acrylic paints (they're made by the same company so they can be used together with no issues). Or use the flat colors and then coat with a layer of the clear acrylic gloss to make it shiny like nail polish. They go on smooth just like nail polish but won't damage your pony like nail polish can.
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I have a feeling I know who youre talking about, If it is Iv actually talked to them quite a bit, but they insist on using nail polish, oh well to each their own. :p
But yeah personally I wouldnt recomend nail polish either. That stuff can get kinda bad down the road, especially when humidity is involved. x.x
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Nail polish is a horrible choice for painting toys - it's prone to long term degradation, going sticky, yellowing, etc.
Acrylic is a much better option. Might want to also check in with the community to make sure your 'beat up' pony isn't a rare one. While it's not likely, there are some ponies out there that can be worth hundreds of dollars even in a condition most people would consider throwing them in the trash.
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Thank you! I would never put nail polish on one of my dolls. And if I wouldn't do it to a doll, I would not do it to a pony.
In my experience nail polish goes soft and sticky over time.
My beat up pony was a G1 Firefly. She was in a smoker's house and had yellowed. I tried my best to clean her up, but she was beyond just cleaning.
(She was my 1st buy off of ebay.) I will use Golden (brand, not color) paint on her and see how it goes.
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In my experience nail polish goes soft and sticky over time.
In my experience as well - which is why I'm baffled that anyone would endorse nail polish as a long term craft supply. :shocked:
No worries on your choice of custom bait either! Good luck and happy customizing. :biggrin:
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I made a thread about this last year...http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,383674.0.html
Nail polish will destroy the vinyl in the pony, ultimately melting the plastic and causing fusion of the plastic to the polish. Even with sealant there is no guarantee the pony will survive the process. Acrylic paint is the best medium for pony customs. :)
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Thank you for the thread ChocolateStarfire!
It was very helpful!
I am so glad I asked here before covering my pony in nail polish.
Like I said, if I wouldn't use it on my dolls, I wouldn't use it on a pony!
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Eh to comment on the content in that other thread, that youtuber has the most disgusting standards in acceptable paintwork too. She just slaps it on as says Perfect! and its not a "style" issue, shes promoting deadly poisons to children with no admonition as to precautions. I wonder how many people have serious neurological damage from trying to imitate her.
But on acrylics, i am dissatisfied tho i accept they are the currently accepted standard. At some point i hope to find the right paints for flexible pvc and until then i dont make any painted customs. But i applaud the rest of you who do such great work knowing how fragile the results are and the care required to keep them looking nice.
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But on acrylics, i am dissatisfied tho i accept they are the currently accepted standard. At some point i hope to find the right paints for flexible pvc and until then i dont make any painted customs. But i applaud the rest of you who do such great work knowing how fragile the results are and the care required to keep them looking nice.
I've got to admit I'm curious now - what makes you dissatisfied with acrylics? I've only occasionally run into any fragility issues such as chipping when rehairing. Bleeding is another issue, but that mostly happens with customs without FBR, and with certain colours only.
My collection comprises customs made by myself and by others and none of them require any special care, unless you count glass cabin. Customs can be dusted, wiped or gently vacuumed just like any other ponies; I'm only careful with sculpted parts, styled hair and other "additions". That said, I don't really touch or handle my customs often, and I only dust them if I'm reorganising or moving the collection (which doesn't happen often! :lol: )
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Well Griffin, a while back I bought a box of customs projects on ebay and I inherited a number of different things in that lot including some customs that had outlived their lifespans. One was a G3 styling pony painted as the green unicorn, and it was made by a member here for a trade who recognized it in my stuff, and that was kinda fun. But its paint was peeling and had separated from the pony surface quite a bit, even in places being soft and wrinkled similar to house-paint that has had a paint remover applied to it before being scraped off. It was also worn through in some places that weren't separated or wrinkled. It was whatever sort of acrylics people are generally using here, and it's true that I don't really know what all it went through between the time it was made and when I got it.
Pony PVC sweats plasticizer and I believe that is likely what caused the failure of the majority of the green paint job...there was a lot of plasticizer smell. On most customs given enough time or poor storage conditions, and because acrylic paint is basically water-soluble, even if you seal it you can never subject it to the sort of heavy scrubbing I find seems to be necessary on ponies like the ones I come across that have had their tough lives of play. If the plasticizer or solubility aren't to blame, then I am dubious about the paints not intended for flexing surviving "play" on flexible surfaces. I don't think acrylics are actually very flexible and I don't think you can mash a customized pony without damaging the paint (though I have no tried it).
The original pony symbol and eye paint seems to survive all this just fine, however...this is the sort of durability I would be looking for, or at least something close to it. I know, PVC paints like are used originally are toxic and can't be used outside of manufacturing environments, and might not even be legal in the US even in such environments. Paints that are available that are anywhere near as durable are generally incompatible with the PVC and probably not flexible, so it is unclear whether there is a better solution for painting ponies than acrylics or not.
I think the best customs that last the longest are first created by those with the knowledge of what undercoat to use on the pony (and I think most good customizers use some sort of undercoat yes?) and then the right choice of which acrylic paint (because if I understand correctly, the "acrylic" is the pigment itself and there are a variety of materials it's mixed into to be paint, so not all acrylic paints are the same, correct?) followed of course by the right choice of what to "seal", or cover it up with to give it some stability against atmospheric moisture and surface contact. But the key factor is to be treated more like art than a toy. I don't think the best most durable customs can handle a cleanser scrub, or being "played" with.
I don't personally want to make anything that can be so easily damaged, or acquire anything someone else invested such work and talent into that I have to treat so well to preserve. I am rough on my possessions, and sometimes that isn't by choice. Something very special will inevitably fall prey to some kind of foolish disaster if left in my possession, and one of the best things about original ponies (to me) is that they can handle quite a bit of such circumstances without being substantially damaged.
By no means am I saying that customs aren't wonderful. They are, absolutely. But they are no longer toys. They are museum pieces, like any painting or sculpture. That's a lot of responsibility. I own toys. If I customize a pony, it has to still be a toy...which means I can still drop it, step on it, have it fall into some kind of unexpected difficulty and be brushed off, maybe scrubbed, and returned to play. Because the very best I can do to for my things is to treat them like toys....which means valuable and delicate works of art just aren't suitable for me, personally.
I believe the paint problem can be solved. I haven't even exhausted the limited research I would have to do to know if there is actually a compatible solution readily available, and part of why I haven't is that I am basically ignorant and it's going to be a big undertaking to catch up on paint and chemistry/materials knowledge to find out, and the other reason is I don't want to lose hope by finding out there IS nothing readily available. So I don't know.
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Customs can be made as durable as the originals, though possibly not with full body repaint.
Personally I have always dyed my customs or used a bait that was already the right colour. I have several that are over 20 years old, and still look just as nice as they did when I made them. Paint doesn't always hold up as well, but you are correct in that not all acrylics are made equal. High quality acrylics stand the test of time. I played with all my customs, they were not display pieces, and I never sealed any of them. The worst 'damage' I've had is some colour bleeding around orange and red paint.
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Four of these are RIT dyed - Baby Sunlight, the light blue unicorn between Baby Parasol and Baby Sparkler, Baby Sparkler, and the dark blue unicorn at the front.
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Those are very cute Baby Sugarberry, especially Baby Sugarberry.
Yes matching the color of the bait, for example one of my projects is Applejack made from TE Partytime with laser-engraved symbols begun by someone else. I plan to use glitter-podge to complete the lasered symbols and replace her eyes with pale green zirconias and rehair, but leave her body in PartyTimes color which is pretty close but not exact.
The question i have, then, is what is the correct best-for-ponies acrylic paint? What undercoat? What sealant/top coat? For use either through airbrush, or for details with brush.
Thanks!
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Those are very cute Baby Sugarberry, especially Baby Sugarberry.
Yes matching the color of the bait, for example one of my projects is Applejack made from TE Partytime with laser-engraved symbols begun by someone else. I plan to use glitter-podge to complete the lasered symbols and replace her eyes with pale green zirconias and rehair, but leave her body in PartyTimes color which is pretty close but not exact.
The question i have, then, is what is the correct best-for-ponies acrylic paint? What undercoat? What sealant/top coat? For use either through airbrush, or for details with brush.
Thanks!
I've been reading up on things that can seal the acrylic paint. And I've just brought Mod Podge Matt glue, I see if that works because I've got a cat LPS that I painted black to look like Luna from Sailor Moon.
Don't get gloss glue or spray don't work with acrylic paint.
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I use DuraClear sealant versus ModPodge. ModPodge can dry tacky and it's best for small customs.
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Isn't Mod Podge water soluble? My understanding is that after I use it for glitterpodge to fill in my custom apple symbols (carved out by laser) that I'll have to seal over it.
Do other agree on Duraclear?
I've also heard that some are getting great results using Testors Dullcote. I remember it was wonderful on polystyrene models after airbrushing them with Testors paints.
In my ignorant quest for a flexible and stable paint, i wonder, what about exterior latex housepaint? Flexible, UV resistant, waterproof; is it good on pony?? I'm sure if it's Ok that it still requires a good bonding undercoat to last. If its solvents are no good for PVC, then interior latex paint should still be safe I think but maybe not as UV resistant. I'm not sure if there is zero-VOC exterior latex but if there is, I will experiment with it at some point, once I know what to use underneath and what the accepted acrylic is to compare them side by side.
Side note, the standard mold-killing interior primer in my region is "Kilz" and i wonder if that would be ok for base coat on ponies, and if so that would probably be good over those ponies with mold problems in particular.
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I use indoor/outdoor acrylic enamels. They are tough and don't require sealant (in my experience), have good adhesion.
That's what those 20+ year old customs are sporting in the picture I posted.
Red/orange can bleed as mentioned (true of all acrylics). Potential downside is that they're generally shiny and thick, don't water down well. They can take a week to fully cure - they're dry long before that but fully set takes more time. It's the kind of paint you can apply to glass, ceramic or even metal.
If you want a custom you can shove under your foot, scrape along the carpet and have it come up none the worse for wear, give acrylic enamels a try.
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So...my suspicion that house paint might do the trick hit pretty close to the mark after all...just not latex, but acrylic enamels, which if I recall correctly are sometimes packaged with awful solvents and pre-oxidizer for spray painting rusty patio furniture (but of course we don't want to use that particular formulation).
They are also formulated for spray-painting plastic patio furniture, I'm pretty sure, so this suggests that they are flexible and compatible with plastics and so it's not at all surprising that you would say I would be able to abuse my ponies as described and not ruin them even after painting with this sort of paint, Baby Sugarberry.
So exciting! I will definitely give them a try. Do you think I will be able to push them through an airbrush? If I do have to thin them to use airbrush, can I use whatever is stated for cleanup to do that?
The shininess does present some issues because for the most part, it's hard to coat over shiny so they sound like a single-coat-only solution. I've heard that applying Dullcote over the top of compatible glossy paints dulls them though, so maybe that can work.
I'm going to explore these things. I really appreciate the secret tip Baby Sugarberry!
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The enamels I've used are artist grade, water soluble. They come in a standard squeeze bottle from the craft store. I wouldn't want to mess around with the nastier stuff in volatile solvents or latex; not worth the health risk IMO, but your milage may vary. You do /not/ want Testors enamel, the stuff that's used to paint model cars! Very different paint.
Acrylic enamels do not thin well in my experience, so airbrush is probably iffy. Some of them even specifically say do not add water when using them. Thinned enamels aren't nearly as tough and more likely to flake. That said consistency and shininess varies brand-to-brand.
I've never really thought about it as a secret, first time I've run into anyone who wanted customs as toys (like I did in my teens) rather than the tarted up 'fit a whole hank into the tail' kind.
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Thanks for the clarification, lostpony. :) It may indeed be difficult to find a paint that can stand the sort of rough handling you mentioned. Even factory paint is not foolproof, as witnessed by commonly occurring rubbed symbols and eyes on G1 ponies. I wonder what they would look like after all these years if they were fully painted. :yikes:
As for undercoats, I prime all my ponies with gesso, which seems to help a lot with the possible chipping and rubbing of paint. That said, the advantage of acrylic paint is precisely the fact that it's flexible. In my experience there are differences between brands however, and between colours. I've rarely had issues with plain white, but typically chipping occurs with colours that have a lot of white mixed in such as pale yellow or peachy skintone. Even then it's an exception rather than a rule and I always get annoyed when it happens, I wish I knew what causes it. The type of bait used must have something to do with it, too.
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Thanks Griffin and Baby Sugarberry!
(by the way yes you don't want to use Testors enamels because of incompatibility with PVC but "Dullcote" is a clear spray that I have heard is not enamel and some have used successfully on ponies)
Wow so even differences in color on the bait makes a difference to the end result then.
Seems using paint at all is a matter of personal experience and whatever is learned doesn't apply to every pony so each project can be a source of surprises. So there's no "magic bullet" that will guarantee perfect outcome every time.
I have a big batch of dollar ponies on its way and a few of them are going to be in poor enough condition to maybe explore some of the suggestions.
I hope this has also been informative to the OP, and I wish everyone great results!
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Hey there! I use Vallejo artist acrylics and seal with Testor's Dullcote spray. The trick is VERY thin coats of paint and a VERY light coat of seal at the end. I have never done an undercoat unless I had dyed the pony and was trying to prevent bleed-through. When I started customizing, I painted customs with cheap acrylics and sealed with make-up sponged on Mod Podge Matte (watered down to the consistency of skim milk). None of those have shown any issues, but I still always used very thin coats.
I have been customizing for more than 10 years and have never had a problem with the paint on any of the customs I have done. I think that a lot of the tacky, sticky, failing paint, etc. customs that we see have to do with using the wrong types of paint and sealant combinations, along with hotter/more humid climates that they are being stored or shipped in.
Good luck! :)
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Hello! Just wanted to say that some monster high doll repaint artists use a brand called Mr. Super clear, which is an Asian brand specially made for toy customizing. I haven't tried it myself, but since it is for toys, it might work well for ponies. It is expensive though.
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I wonder if Mr. Super Clear is related to Mr. Clean...
I will definitely consult back to the very specific advice in this thread before attempting any pony painting.
I'm glad to hear that even your cheap acrylics topped by Mod Podge have held up OK for over ten years, cookhuman. Who knows what my green unicorn was exposed to...seems I don't need to be so timid about pony painting after all.
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I use MSC for a sealant, but I had previously used Testors Dullcote. Both are amazing sealants, but from the amount I have used both, I much prefer the MSC.