Anyway I pay fees if someone is selling me something at a "pick up at store price", but I would hope they would show the same kindness. I never send payment as a gift. Recently I've been getting MO. I kinda like that better. :lol:Good point. If someone's not making any money on the transaction, I think it's reasonable for the buyer to pay the fees. Otherwise the "seller" is paying to buy them something, and that's not right.
If the seller has it posted to cover paypal fees as well as shipping there should be no question who should cover it. If its a big sell I don't mind paying the fees. But when I sell I don't charge gas or bubble wrap, tape, packaging, tracking, ect. and everything else that costs to mail. I don't mark up the prices to cover the fees because to me it just sounds "hidden or sneaky" I let the buyer know up front what to pay to the exact penny. I don't care if it is sent as a gift but prefer the fee just be paid to cover both parties. I do the same for others that I buy from too. Im happy to pay the fees when buying something that don't cost a lot. I think a lot of people don't sell because of the fees included & I don't blame them.
Well, I've asked a buyer if they could cover paypal fees a couple of times I think, and that's because as a buyer I'm almost always asked myself. I don't really mind either way, but I feel it would be better if there was a rule or a guide line about this here in the arena, so no one would be the one to pay all the fees.I used to ask for fees from the buyer as well, and I did it because for the same reason sooo many others in transactions here aske me to cover them. I even stated in my topic that I needed buyers to cover them, so I'm guilty of the same actions. Then it was pointed out to me in Paypals rules you're not supposed to ask a buyer for fees. It's specifically in there.
Don't tack on a price after and expect me to pay for your bubble wrap or gas to the post office. That's like asking the grocery store to knock off a percentage from your total because you had to drive to get there. You want the food, you pay for the gas to get it. You want to be a seller, you pay the fees to be one.
However, I honestly get annoyed when I spend over $100 and have someone ask me for another $3 for fees AFTER I pay. Most often, if I really want the item, I will just send extra for the fees, rather than paying as a gift.
No one is saying you have to lose money on a transaction. All people are saying is, if you want the fees covered, build it into the cost of the pony. It's a simple percentage, easily done. If pricing things a little higher makes people buy from someone else, that's how it goes, I'm sorry. They'd have to spend more on your pony whether you build it into the price or ask for the fee outright, just one violates paypal's TOS, and the other doesn't.
I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.
I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.
I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.
Yeah, not to point at anyone or anything - but I actually thought everyone was doing so and that it was normal? :blush: This thread proved me very wrong.
I just wanted to mention it doesn't matter what user agreement you had when you signed on with paypal. You agree to each revision of that agreement and its current agreement is the same for everyone because of that. So, saying that since your agreement doesn't look like the current agreement doesn't really matter because they have the right to change it and its our responsibility as papal customers to read the revisions. Especially when it involves policies on how we are allowed to use their site when receiving money for sales or gifts. :)That's what I thought. After all, they send those emails every six months or so, "Okay we changed some stuff, do you like it? Hahaha too bad if you keep using our service we're going to assume you agree. Sucker."
I never expect a buyer to pay my paypal fees and I would not want payment sent as a gift. I just roll those fees into my sales price. That is the price I have to pay for ensuring a safe online payment method and the ease of having money deposited right into my account. It is so worth it compared to the days of waiting on a money order (sometimes for weeks) and having to go cash it. What a pain that was!
I have had a few sellers ask for payment by gift after the fact and I will oblige if under $20 or so. If it is over that, I tell them that I would rather pay/split the fees with them, so we are both protected. I usually avoid a purchase altogether from a seller that mentions it upfront on their sales thread.
ETA: There are times when it is ALWAYS proper to pay someone's fees. Such as if they are doing you a favor by picking something up for you that isn't sold in your area or in a lopsided trade. Case by case, ya know?
There is a lot more involved for some sellers than others when it comes to Paypal and their fees...
Long ago, in the days of Yore, paypal did not charge a fee to recipients of a payment when the sender used existing funds, and the receiver of the money had a "personal" account. So, most of the time, collectors who bought and traded far far more than they sold, never really encountered a fee, and when they did, it actually was customary for the buyer to pay the fees since they wanted to use credit cards.
See, once money has entered into paypal, one way or another, Paypal has already taken their fee from it, so there is no reason to continue taking money that had already been paid for.
Fast-Forwarding to today (and more recently), Paypal (and eBay) got into some hefty scrutiny by the US (and likely other countries') Governments. The IRS got involved, and they now require Paypal to report everything you receive through paypal as a payment for goods and services directly to the IRS. You are not required to claim it on your taxes however, if it does not meet the value/transaction requirements.
When this change occurred, Paypal stopped differentiating between a "personal" and "merchant" account, allowing users to send and receive money freely from any source for a fee - always for a fee.
The only way to avoid letting the IRS see extra money you are getting now, is when these payments are sent as a "gift." Because money gifts up to a certain amount are not taxable.
So, as a seller, I personally will always politely ask buyers to send a payment as a gift (and I generally offer an extra discount for doing so) if they are comfortable, and if not, it does not matter, and I personally don't ask for extra money to cover fees.
I think when it comes to this whole topic, the etiquette is very debatable, because not every collector is a big-time seller, and therefore is more concerned about the dollar amount coming off a pony because there is no profit involved. Also, as I mentioned before, there have been a LOT of changes to Paypal, so there is now a blend of ideals between newer collectors and oldies.
When it comes to asking for fees, I think that is up to the seller. If you go to Walmart and use your Credit Card to buy something (no matter how cheap) you are never required to pay a fee to use your card rather than cash. BUT if you go to the mom-and-pop corner store, you will likely see a sign somewhere that posts a minimum purchase amount required to use a credit card. That is because it costs both Walmart AND the Mom-and-pop a fee to accept credit cards. The difference is, Walmart can more easily absorb such costs with a higher sales volume.
There is a lot more involved for some sellers than others when it comes to Paypal and their fees...
Long ago, in the days of Yore, paypal did not charge a fee to recipients of a payment when the sender used existing funds, and the receiver of the money had a "personal" account. So, most of the time, collectors who bought and traded far far more than they sold, never really encountered a fee, and when they did, it actually was customary for the buyer to pay the fees since they wanted to use credit cards.
See, once money has entered into paypal, one way or another, Paypal has already taken their fee from it, so there is no reason to continue taking money that had already been paid for.
Fast-Forwarding to today (and more recently), Paypal (and eBay) got into some hefty scrutiny by the US (and likely other countries') Governments. The IRS got involved, and they now require Paypal to report everything you receive through paypal as a payment for goods and services directly to the IRS. You are not required to claim it on your taxes however, if it does not meet the value/transaction requirements.
When this change occurred, Paypal stopped differentiating between a "personal" and "merchant" account, allowing users to send and receive money freely from any source for a fee - always for a fee.
The only way to avoid letting the IRS see extra money you are getting now, is when these payments are sent as a "gift." Because money gifts up to a certain amount are not taxable.
So, as a seller, I personally will always politely ask buyers to send a payment as a gift (and I generally offer an extra discount for doing so) if they are comfortable, and if not, it does not matter, and I personally don't ask for extra money to cover fees.
I think when it comes to this whole topic, the etiquette is very debatable, because not every collector is a big-time seller, and therefore is more concerned about the dollar amount coming off a pony because there is no profit involved. Also, as I mentioned before, there have been a LOT of changes to Paypal, so there is now a blend of ideals between newer collectors and oldies.
When it comes to asking for fees, I think that is up to the seller. If you go to Walmart and use your Credit Card to buy something (no matter how cheap) you are never required to pay a fee to use your card rather than cash. BUT if you go to the mom-and-pop corner store, you will likely see a sign somewhere that posts a minimum purchase amount required to use a credit card. That is because it costs both Walmart AND the Mom-and-pop a fee to accept credit cards. The difference is, Walmart can more easily absorb such costs with a higher sales volume.
Very well stated!
This is something that really buns my biscuits. Paypal has feels because it is a money handling SERVICE. If you a selling something (outside of picking something up at a store as a favor for a pony who doesn't have the item available to them and selling at the same cost you paid), and you use Paypal as a means of accepting payment, then you need to pay the fees for said service, per Paypal policies. It should just be par for the course of selling. I understand a lot of people do it here, so when a seller asks me to send payment as a gift, I will, but it still makes me nervous. I don't like lying about things like that. If that extra cost bugs you, up your prices a little.
I get almost all my etsy payments through Paypal and I do not ask my customers to pay any of those fees. I am paying for a service that makes accepting online payments much easier, so that's how I see it. A lot people don't want to send a MO or cash anymore, so the fees are worth keeping customers.
I think it's a bit different shopping online. While it's always annoying to pay an extra fee, Paypal also gives buyer protection that other methods of payment don't. It's not like the owners of the small shop can choose not to send your item if you pay cash, it's right there in your hands. If you send someone concealed cash for an online sale, you have no recourse if they flake out. Moreover, many sellers only accept paypal these days.This is something that really buns my biscuits. Paypal has feels because it is a money handling SERVICE. If you a selling something (outside of picking something up at a store as a favor for a pony who doesn't have the item available to them and selling at the same cost you paid), and you use Paypal as a means of accepting payment, then you need to pay the fees for said service, per Paypal policies. It should just be par for the course of selling. I understand a lot of people do it here, so when a seller asks me to send payment as a gift, I will, but it still makes me nervous. I don't like lying about things like that. If that extra cost bugs you, up your prices a little.
I get almost all my etsy payments through Paypal and I do not ask my customers to pay any of those fees. I am paying for a service that makes accepting online payments much easier, so that's how I see it. A lot people don't want to send a MO or cash anymore, so the fees are worth keeping customers.
My sentiments exactly! You are still using the service, and for the record I don't like it when small stores want you to pay a fee for using a credit card either...
This thread is going in circles.
Paypal has made it a lot easier than cashing those M.O. or dealing with bounced checks & so on. Im grateful for that. Im taking a nap now. This is a lot of reading for fees :P
This thread is going in circles.
Paypal has made it a lot easier than cashing those M.O. or dealing with bounced checks & so on. Im grateful for that. Im taking a nap now. This is a lot of reading for fees :P
Tiffy, you are right. This is one of those topics that is so overly-debatable because it stems from literally dozens of viewpoints with lots of supporting arguments for every opinion.
For receivers, you could make the argument that a buyer who wishes to use a credit card should be responsible for fees because almost none of us are merchants or businesses. You could make the argument that it is a cost of doing business. Collectors holding hard to find ponies may have their choice of buyers and the one with the highest and best offer is going to get the pony - and that will likely mean the buyer willing to pay the fee or send the payment as a gift. There are just so many layers of debate here, and the biggest issue is that none of them are really wrong, they just all hinge on different viewpoints.
What everyone who collects should probably do, is simply evaluate any transacton they plan to enter into with anyone. Before sending a payment as a gift, you should ask yourself these questions:
How well do I know my seller?
How reputable is he or she?
Am I willing to lose $x.xx if I get screwed?
Does this deal seem too good to be true?
These are very basic, but will help a lot. None of us can control the changes set forth by Paypal, but we can work with them.
The most important thing would be to educate yourself as a buyer, and protect yourself when and where you feel the need.
We all need to remember that this is a website that is dedicated to being a one-stop-shop for all collectors and lovers of My Little Pony. It is not directly responsible for each person behind the thousands of usernames. So there cannot really be a "rule" for payment methods. We all just need to know what our own expectations and personal limitations are, and realize that they may cost us a sale or purchase from time to time or bring in an unwanted buyer or bad seller here and there.
Er, except there is an easy answer. Paypal has it in their TOS that sellers aren't allowed to require buyers to pay their fees. Their service, their rules.
I've said elsewhere in this thread that if you're bothered about fees, you can add it to the price of the pony. :) If no one else is selling that particular pony, then your price goes (assuming there's someone willing to pay). I'm just saying that Paypal's TOS explicitly prohibits sellers saying "I need you to give me extra money for Paypal fees."Er, except there is an easy answer. Paypal has it in their TOS that sellers aren't allowed to require buyers to pay their fees. Their service, their rules.
How badly do you want the pony that you were not willing to add an extra few dollars?
And this is simply another viewpoint. Paypal has to cover their bases, legally, and financially. They WANT all transactions to occur for goods or services because that is how they earn their money in fees. What you are able to do and willing are separate from that. Paypal does not tell every collector that you have to always use their service or you cannot collect ponies anymore. Or buy from the internet.
They are a company. They provide a service. BOTH parties use the service. Both parties may choose. I have literally had buyers who hate paypal so bad that they have Wired me money - there is no protection there.
I've said elsewhere in this thread that if you're bothered about fees, you can add it to the price of the pony. :) If no one else is selling that particular pony, then your price goes (assuming there's someone willing to pay). I'm just saying that Paypal's TOS explicitly prohibits sellers saying "I need you to give me extra money for Paypal fees."Er, except there is an easy answer. Paypal has it in their TOS that sellers aren't allowed to require buyers to pay their fees. Their service, their rules.
How badly do you want the pony that you were not willing to add an extra few dollars?
And this is simply another viewpoint. Paypal has to cover their bases, legally, and financially. They WANT all transactions to occur for goods or services because that is how they earn their money in fees. What you are able to do and willing are separate from that. Paypal does not tell every collector that you have to always use their service or you cannot collect ponies anymore. Or buy from the internet.
They are a company. They provide a service. BOTH parties use the service. Both parties may choose. I have literally had buyers who hate paypal so bad that they have Wired me money - there is no protection there.
And while you're not 100% required to use Paypal on online purchases, it makes it significantly harder, as (like I said) some sellers only accept Paypal, even if you personally accept other forms of payment. Others have said why it's shady to ask to have payment sent as gifts rather than goods.
But...this topic is about Paypal fees. Paypal sets the terms by which you have to adhere to use their service. I don't mean any of this personally, it's just statement of fact. A user can choose not to follow the TOS, but they're liable to have their account suspended if they do. Nowhere have I called anyone a bad person, just that Paypal has the right to set their own terms of use.I've said elsewhere in this thread that if you're bothered about fees, you can add it to the price of the pony. :) If no one else is selling that particular pony, then your price goes (assuming there's someone willing to pay). I'm just saying that Paypal's TOS explicitly prohibits sellers saying "I need you to give me extra money for Paypal fees."Er, except there is an easy answer. Paypal has it in their TOS that sellers aren't allowed to require buyers to pay their fees. Their service, their rules.
How badly do you want the pony that you were not willing to add an extra few dollars?
And this is simply another viewpoint. Paypal has to cover their bases, legally, and financially. They WANT all transactions to occur for goods or services because that is how they earn their money in fees. What you are able to do and willing are separate from that. Paypal does not tell every collector that you have to always use their service or you cannot collect ponies anymore. Or buy from the internet.
They are a company. They provide a service. BOTH parties use the service. Both parties may choose. I have literally had buyers who hate paypal so bad that they have Wired me money - there is no protection there.
And while you're not 100% required to use Paypal on online purchases, it makes it significantly harder, as (like I said) some sellers only accept Paypal, even if you personally accept other forms of payment. Others have said why it's shady to ask to have payment sent as gifts rather than goods.
You are right, sweetheart! Those statements are true and they are very good ideas, but again, you won't be able to force all your sellers to adhere to that standard, and that does not necessarily make them wrong or bad people. You have to know your personal limitations and go by what you think is right as a buyer or seller. If you think a seller is wrong for that, then you don't have to buy from him or her, you just have to realize that there will be some members you will not buy from. Whatever PayPal and eBay set forth as rules is separate from what goes on at a personal level.
But...this topic is about Paypal fees. Paypal sets the terms by which you have to adhere to use their service. I don't mean any of this personally, it's just statement of fact. A user can choose not to follow the TOS, but they're liable to have their account suspended if they do. Nowhere have I called anyone a bad person, just that Paypal has the right to set their own terms of use.
This is just a friendly reminder that any time you pay a seller and select the "Send as Gift" option, you have just opted OUT of ANY Buyer Protection services that Paypal offers!
Send as Gift= you may not file a claim! Ever!
(not to mention it's rather dishonest and cheats Paypal of their cut- I know, they won't go bankrupt because they lost your $0.63 fee ;) )
You *may* be able to get around this with your credit card fraud department, but I do not know if this has been tried yet, so I wouldn't count on it.
When selling between friends of course it's your prerogative, just remember that once you send it as a gift, it's gone for good.
It is inappropriate for sellers to require buyers to ignore Paypal's Terms & Conditions and send payments as "Gift's!" Don't put your buyers in that awkward position, they would be fully justified to refuse to complete the transaction. Sellers who are members at the Arena, who take payments as "gifts" and then have an issue with a sale here will be expected to work with the buyer exactly as they would if the buyer had Paypal's protection in place.
I know this has all been discussed here before, but it has always been amongst other issues. Seems like it's time this get adopted into the common trading etiquette since it looks like the change to Paypal is permanent.
I hope we'll never see a disappointed buyer here who has no recourse because they tried to be nice and save the seller a couple dollars in fees.
PayPal have no idea whether you are asking a buyer to pay fees or not. Their terms and conditions also state no raffles but people blatantly do it, on here, quite regularly and no one has issue with that when they are trying to win a $100 set of ponies do they! Anyone who participates in those raffles is also breaking rules but they still do it.
And there is nothing shady about asking for a gift payment if you're not shady!
It is inappropriate for sellers to require buyers to ignore Paypal's Terms & Conditions and send payments as "Gift's!" Don't put your buyers in that awkward position, they would be fully justified to refuse to complete the transaction. Sellers who are members at the Arena, who take payments as "gifts" and then have an issue with a sale here will be expected to work with the buyer exactly as they would if the buyer had Paypal's protection in place.
I think it's great that by arena standards people are expected to treat all transactions with the same vigilance, and I know our wonderful trader support mods are dedicated to trying to find solutions to all problem transactions :)Well said. I've noticed you have the ability to say things I mean better than I can! :)
However, since arena rules and suggestions can't be enforced the same way paypal rules can, I'm not willing to take those chances. I think a lot of other buyers and sellers are in the same boat. We'd like to think we can trust all of our fellow arena members, but numerous trader support threads prove that it's not the case. I like the level of protection paypal gives. As a buyer I won't buy from anyone who tries to force me to give up that protection, and as a seller I'm more than happy to pay the fees that give me that security.
I think the big issue is the word REQUIRE
I personally don't REQUIRE it, but can offer the option. I haven't actually run into anyone who requires a gift payment, but I have run into some people who REQUIRE you paying the Paypal fees.
I don't do that. Just put the option out there that a gift is always helpful to me, versus a goods, but I don't mind which method they pay me! :biggrin:
I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me :P
I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me :P
Oh I don't think you started a fuss. Actually, I think this is a great thread, and an important topic. (Obviously, as there are so many different opinions on the subject).
As mentioned earlier, threads like this have been hashed and rehashed over the years. BUT, there are always new arena members who want to buy or sell, and this thread may be the first time this information is presented to them.
Personally, I've been buying and selling ponies online for over 15 years but I've only been on the arena since last summer and I've found this thread helpful.
My opinion on the subject:
Buyers and sellers can do what they want. Follow paypal rules, don't follow paypal rules, build fees into your prices or not, charge a handling fee, whatever you like. BUT, there may (or may not) be consequences to your buying/selling practices... (i.e. loss of buyer protection if you pay as a gift, etc.)
I recently decided not to complete a transaction on the arena because AFTER pming back and forth for details on the items and AFTER requesting my total with shipping I was asked to send payment as a gift, but if I did not, I was required to pay the paypal fees to complete the transaction.
In the initial sales thread it was stated that the seller 'preferred' payments to be sent as a gift. It was NEVER stated that I would have to pay the fees if I opted to retain my buyer protection. That is NOT ok with me.
I didn't appreciate the seller not being upfront from the start. If they want to charge paypal fees, fine. But say it outright from the beginning, BEFORE we're three pm's into a transaction. That is just NOT ok with me.
But, it may be ok with someone else. That's fine. Someone else can buy the ponies.
On a happier note, I was thankfully able to trade for the ponies I wanted with another local collector :cool:
I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:
Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"
I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode.
So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.
I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:
Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"
I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode.
So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.
I'd say yes you would be totally justified in leaving that kind of feedback as it's honest. If the seller gets defensive because they didn't want you to say that then...they shouldn't conduct their sales that way :)
I really hate it when sellers suddenly tack on fees after you've seen the item + shipping price and agreed to purchase =/ I agreed to purchase it at that price, not the new higher one >(
I would love it if people mentioned the fee payment in their feedback. It's certainly not something I want to bother with from a seller. And I don't want to be in the midst of a sale and becoming emotionally attached and THEN being informed of the fees. That's like paying for groceries and then the manager comes out and says, "More money or you can't have the food." Not to mention I have an extremely limited amount of money to spend on ponies - if I have the $2.99, I have two dollars and ninety-nine cents. I do NOT have $3.36.
I don't think that makes me cheap or selfish.
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
I as a seller will pay the fees myself. I set up my pal pay and I agreed to that fee things when I got it! I do pass on sales when the seller says that I need to pay the fees. No way and sorry .......
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.
It's not the end of the world to me to pay the sellers fees, I just feel that sellers should be upfront that they expect it as opposed to once an agreement has been made and then they spring it on you. Does $0.23 make or break the deal for me? Probably not. Does the fact that the seller waited till the last minute to inform me that fees were also expected or required make or break the deal? Yes that could very well be the deciding factor, not because it's a slight bit extra, but because their sales thread doesn't state it and they waited until an agreement was reached to mention it.
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.
And on top of that, someone might have a strict budget for any number of reasons. Maybe they only use money in their Paypal, got money as a gift, or allow themselves an exact amount of money per paycheck/week/etc to spend on their collections. 23 cents could very easily be the difference between someone being able or not being able to afford something.
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.
And on top of that, someone might have a strict budget for any number of reasons. Maybe they only use money in their Paypal, got money as a gift, or allow themselves an exact amount of money per paycheck/week/etc to spend on their collections. 23 cents could very easily be the difference between someone being able or not being able to afford something.
Yes I understand that, so that means if I factor in the extra $0.23 into my sale, I will lose a sale.
So for a seller, that situation is a lose lose.
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?
I just have to ask.... this is related, but I don't know if it was covered specifically... :blush: i was reading this thread for a while but, then lost a few pages so... :
If you guys are working with someone who doesn't necessarily mention fees up front or gift payments... and then you work on a deal and they cut you a break on the price and stuff, and then ask for payment as a gift... (out of the blue) - how do you handle that situation?
Let's say it's NOT someone you're super familiar with, it's someone with a good reputation but, perhaps you personally haven't worked with them or, maybe it's an international thing where you know you'll have to deal with shipping time waits and all things like that.
How as a buyer, do you not rudely back out of a "gift payment"?
I just have to ask.... this is related, but I don't know if it was covered specifically... :blush: i was reading this thread for a while but, then lost a few pages so... :
If you guys are working with someone who doesn't necessarily mention fees up front or gift payments... and then you work on a deal and they cut you a break on the price and stuff, and then ask for payment as a gift... (out of the blue) - how do you handle that situation?
Let's say it's NOT someone you're super familiar with, it's someone with a good reputation but, perhaps you personally haven't worked with them or, maybe it's an international thing where you know you'll have to deal with shipping time waits and all things like that.
How as a buyer, do you not rudely back out of a "gift payment"?
Good question :)
For me personally, when I contact a member I've already got an idea of the cost of the ponies based on the listed prices, so if the seller decides to cut me a deal and knock some money off, I don't think it would bother me so much to pay the paypal fees. I would just rather the seller gives me the full price.
When I message a seller I ask how much to ship the following to Canada, or what will be the total cost of the items and shipping? If a seller wants the paypal fees to be covered by me then just include it in the total amount given to me. Whether there is a discount or not, that's how I prefer it to be done.
I haven't backed out in a situation like what you're referring to, simply because I already know that I can afford the ponies when I initialize communication, so if the seller is going to take a little money off, that just helps me out even more :)
I don't know if that helped you or not.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, do sellers ask for payment as gift to avoid PayPal fees or to avoid possible tax/income issues? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere about PayPal and taxable income... But I am also full of head cold, and blonde :)If you take in $20,000 or more in a year, Paypal is required to report it to the IRS (this is for the US only. I have no idea what Paypal does or does not report for other countries). That $20k includes money to be used for shipping costs: for example, if I sold a pony for $10 & charged $5 for shipping, that is a $15 transaction even though all $15 does not end up as profit for the seller. It's the seller's responsibility to claim the shipping & fees in their taxes.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, do sellers ask for payment as gift to avoid PayPal fees or to avoid possible tax/income issues? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere about PayPal and taxable income... But I am also full of head cold, and blonde :)
4.6 no Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.