The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Pangel on July 15, 2012, 03:06:29 AM
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Hi guys!
Just want some advice please. There may be a message about this somewhere from the buyer, I'm not sure, but I recently sold a G3 Silver Rain pony for £9.99 on eBay, as she was a duplicate in my collection. She looked to be in excellent condition, just some rubbing to her legs, etc. I described her as such. She had a pull in her mane, where her hair looked to be unnaturally long in one area. I didn't think she had a hair or tail cut (I compared her to my own version, as well as wiki and reef pics) and this long bit of hair was quite odd! I was going to trim it, but decided to leave this to the buyer.
This is the photograph from the listing:
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This is a photograph from mylittlewiki:
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I sent the pony in good faith, and the buyer sent me this message:
"Hello,
I received the pony today but unfortunately, I would like to return it.
Would you please be able to tell me what are the procedure to follow for return?
Many thanks
**** < name blanked out by me"
Not a problem, I thought! Maybe she didn't like her, or was a duplicate? I gave her my returns address, said sorry she wasn't happy with her purchase, and that I'd refund her for her pony when she was received back here, but I cannot refund P+P costs for unwanted items.
Well, today I get this message!
"Hello Sarah,
Thank you for getting back to me.
The pony is not 2unwanted, it has had its mane and tail cut unlike the description in the listing stating that its hair was uncut! "Not happy" is rather an euphemism in this case!!
So I would be most grateful if you could give me a full refund since it is not as described.
I had the pony compared to reliable sources. Whether or not you were aware of this, it is still as not described.
So unless you agree in your reply to offer me a FULL refund, I shall open a case with paypal and ebay.
Many thanks
****"
:shocked: This totally came out of nowhere! She never mentioned ANYTHING about a hair or tail cut in the original message. I have always taken pride in the fact that I have always attempted to describe ponies as accurately as possible. If I have made a mistake, of course I will issue a full refund including return P+P costs. But as far as I could tell, there was nothing wrong at all with her hair.
I'm really upset. If you guys could take a look at the photograph to see if you think she has had her tail or mane cut, please let me know!
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Did you mention the hair pull? That could be what she's thinking is a hair cut.
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Yes I did mention the pull in the description, so I have messaged her back to say that this isn't an indication of a cut at all. But she mentioned the tail was cut as well, which as far as I was aware, was perfect ;__;
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Mmm difficult. In my opinions it doesn't look cut when I look on google to other pictures. If it is cut it isn't really obvious I think.
But I a not a g3 expert.
I hope you can work this out ^.^
I am giving this a bump :bump:
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You can clearly see the state of her hair in the listing, but in my experience, ebay/paypal hardly ever reviews these cases, and refunds are usually given regardless. Even though you are clearly being upfront and are right in your opinion, it's best to just accept her terms, and relist the pony a bit higher next time to recover some of the postage expenses you incurred.
Post Merge: July 15, 2012, 03:45:47 AM
oh, and it looks like a pull to me... I think you're right there - factory error methinks.
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Thanks for your response. Fingers crossed she will send the pony back without opening a case :)
I think I'm just being a bit sensitive this morning. This is the first time I've been called out on a pony 'not being as described'. I'm a top-rated seller with 100% feedback, and it's made me feel a bit wobbly about listing any more for sale.
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Let the brat open a case. She's full of it. I can see the mane and tail just fine and there is no haircut. Plus, she didn't mention it to begin with which makes her shady in my book. I don't trust her right now and don't think she is telling the truth.
But yeah, Ebay will just tell her to return the pony for a refund. Sucks to be her.
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Okay here is her response:
"Hello,
I appreciate that you are a pony collector. So am I :)
I am in fact very surprised that the hair did appear uncut to you. It is absutely uneven and has a very choppy look in lots of places. I am not contesting the slightly pulled hair, I read your listing thouroughly before buying.
If you compared this pony with the two in your possession then you may have 2 ponies with equaly chopped hair :( It is utterly obvious to the naked eye!!! I have shelves full of pony and whilst I understand that there might be slight uneveness here and there, the one you sent me is astonishingly beyond normal.
As for me not mentioning why I wanted to return the pony, well I made first contact to let you know that I wished to return the pony. Your answer was to assume right away that I was not happy. Never did you ask for the reasons for the return. It was in my intentions to make my reasons clear afterwards.
Anyway, I am very happy to file a case with eBay."
Well, I've offered her to return it. That's all I can do now.
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Let her open the case. In your communications through the case offer to refund if the pony is returned. You will have to refund shipping to her but she will be out the money to ship her back.
If she trys to claim she shipped and you do not get the pony back, she will need to prove you received it with tracking in order for paypal to refund on your behalf.
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Thanks everyone. I don't think there is anything more I can do, so if she opens the case, she opens it.
The buyer has said that she will post photographs of the pony on here, so we can all have a look and see :)
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Sometimes you get buyers like this, I wouldn't let you stop selling. I have no doubt that you described your item as it was, and that whatever the "flaw" is, it came from the factory. For you to offer a refund, minus P+P costs was not out of place. You are quite free to offer your own return policy, as you see fit.
If a buyer is going to be that picky about something, which is /absolutely/ fine, they need to request more pictures to make sure it is something they want to buy.
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I'm dying to see these photos.
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:hug: I think you've done what you can for now and you'll just have to wait and see if she opens a case. From what I can see in those pics the hair is the right length. There is a slight "choppiness" to the ends as your buyer mentioned.. now whether that is from the factory or from brushing etc I'm not sure, but it doesnt look like it has been cut IMO. Silver Rain had curly hair originally. :awake:
Like the others said, if she opens a case, in your response, offer again to give a full refund when she returns the pony.
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Thanks for your opinion Ringlets.
I'm just waiting for her to return the pony, and publish photographs on here if she wishes. I got a new message today:
"Hi,
I see that there are some well rounded refined beings on this forum :S Now I guess that the "Brat" can have a say and stand for herself amongst these people :P
And thank you for publishing our communications. Not very professional! Let's say that I am very disappointed. Oh and feel free to publish this message too! For future reference, I believe that any communication with your customers ought to remain private. Copying and pasting the very messages themselves is off limits good practice. That you do vent your frustration to your peers and provide a sun up of what has been said is one thing, but publishing the actual communication exchanged between your consumers and yourself is another.
And again, I did not mention the issue in my first attempt to contact you only because it came to me as natural that you would ask the reasons why in return.
Again, anyway, I am posting the pictures asap."
I haven't responded.
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I am sorry that you and your buyer are having issues. :(
I am going to point out that either way, whether on your own or through an ebay case. The pony will have to be returned before a refund is issued. And depending on your policies you are under no obligation to refund shipping costs. And ebay will not make you either.
I also think at this point the best thing to do is make arrangements for her to return the pony. And once you have received her back, a refund will be issued.
In regards to the haircut, well it appears to me that it is a factory issue. As we are all well aware of Hasbro's quality control.
I do hope that the two of you can reach an agreement that will satisfy both of you though.
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Thanks ponylady. I'm hopeful we can still work something out.
Regardless of the fact whether the pony does or does not have a haircut, I'm still very happy for the buyer to send me the pony back and to issue a refund for her.
I feel awful.
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Thanks ponylady. I'm hopeful we can still work something out.
Regardless of the fact whether the pony does or does not have a haircut, I'm still very happy for the buyer to send me the pony back and to issue a refund for her.
I feel awful.
Don't feel bad, there is no seller/buyer confidential code. You didn't say anything wrong and just repeated the circumstances. And while I probably shouldn't have said "brat" I only did so because of this:
"So unless you agree in your reply to offer me a FULL refund, I shall open a case with paypal and ebay."
That's pretty bratty. So yeah, in my eyes, she became weird first and then you just did what a 100 other pony posters have done before you. Discuss your issue here.
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Thanks ponylady. I'm hopeful we can still work something out.
Regardless of the fact whether the pony does or does not have a haircut, I'm still very happy for the buyer to send me the pony back and to issue a refund for her.
I feel awful.
Don't feel bad, there is no seller/buyer confidential code. You didn't say anything wrong and just repeated the circumstances. And while I probably shouldn't have said "brat" I only did so because of this:
"So unless you agree in your reply to offer me a FULL refund, I shall open a case with paypal and ebay."
That's pretty bratty. So yeah, in my eyes, she became weird first and then you just did what a 100 other pony posters have done before you. Discuss your issue here.
:lovey: Thank you ;____;
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I'm so sorry you're going through all this, I read all of it. You don't appear to have done anything wrong, but if the buyer was a member here and was so angry about it, surely they would come forward and give their side of the story? That way no-one can be biased and it can be fairly worked out.
:hug:
xxx
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This is awful. And it sounds like buyer extortion to me. I am curious to know the buyer, because I had something very similar happen to me also. I am thinking foul play for sure if it is the same buyer...
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Wow, weren't some folks saying earlier that threatening sellers with "I'll open a case" is extortion? Isn't this not allowed? I would let eBay know that this buyer is attempting to bully you. This whole "OMG the hair is atrocious!" nonsense is utter bollocks. The hair is very clearly seen in the photo you provided and it doesn't look "completely uneven!" to me.
It's true we can't judge as well based on one photo, but I'm also pretty suspicious that this seller did not give any reasoning in her first letter and then told you that your assumptions were the problem and that you should have to ask the seller why they don't want it, rather than expect them to be straight-up with you and tell you precisely what the problem is, under the assumption there is a problem. What a tool.
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Sorry you are going through this.
She looks fine to me too! ;) I would take her regardless. She's not easy to find.
There's been some good advice here already. Good luck!
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Hello,
Well, since there are two sides to a coin, here I am :)
I see that our eBay messages are still being publicly published!
Anyway, I registered and had to wait for approval before I could post the photos. Sorry about the delay.
I am sorry that I had to be introduced to this community in such circumstances. I am very aware of shipping, return policies and the likes. So rest assured that I am in noway expecting a full refund before sending the pony. And that my intentions were always to return it via Royal Mail recorded delivery. So I would be most grateful if those points could remain between the seller and myself as I believe that the main issue here is to establish whether or not the hair has been cut.
Again, You are in your right to vent and seek for advice and relay the main of the issue on this forum, but personal and commercial correspondence should not be copied and pasted by for other parties to see. Hence why the point of having eBay resolution centre. So everything can be monitored and kept in check by qualified staff. So please, by all means do share your concerns with your peers but do not copy and paste our correspondence on here. A seller and a buyer are liable to privacy terms and conditions.
So here are the photos with pointers so you guys can see what I am looking at. So whether I am a very fussy buyer or simply a "brat" (and please do not take a sentence out of its entire context), your very able opinions shall be very welcome and appreciated :) But please remember that I felt disappointed and "cheated" in the first place. However I chose to follow the correct procedures via ebay resolution centre as opposed to making this issue a public affair and publishing all my communications. In my own right, I feel that the description was not accurate. I also pointed out to the seller that I totally understood that she might have not been aware of the issue that I pointed, mistakes happen. I think that she may have reacted as it was a personal attack as opposed to being a plain and simple business dealing between a trader and his consumers. But now the suspicions and assumptions are getting slightly out of hands. If anything, I fell like the one being bullied here :(
And so we are clear, I am not bullying the seller. I am not threatening her in any shape or form, I was just advising her that in the meantime I was opening a dispute so all could be recorded through official channels just in case we would not come to an understanding.
Your suspicions can be put to rest, I am not dishonest. And yes, a seller should always ask a customer the reason of a return. Standard practice.
Anyway, here we go:
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Over to you guys...
Just had an idea: Since the hair of this particular is straight unlike the original curly/wavy version, could someone ascertain the actual length of the tail? Maybe with actual and tangible measurements, we will be able to come to a fair outcome! I am not enjoying my time at the "Pony Tribunal", sorry :(
Post Merge: July 16, 2012, 01:19:29 PM
This is awful. And it sounds like buyer extortion to me. I am curious to know the buyer, because I had something very similar happen to me also. I am thinking foul play for sure if it is the same buyer...
Sorry but again, assumptions are being made. It seems as this has totally been blown out of proportion! Again, remember that I WAS the one left feeling utterly disappointed and "cheated" when I received the pony and took a look at her. Because she is so hard to find and that she was listed as having uncut hair, I was anticipating her arrival with a lot of excitement.
How much of a foul play and extortion could this be!!!! Please why don;t you all stone me to death while we are here!!!
You are very welcome to have my ebay ID if that helps :S
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Hello MissWhimsicalCupcakes and welcome to the arena!
Thank you for responding to this thread. And posting pictures of the pony in question.
I do not think your poster intended for this to be a "Pony Tribunal" but rather a way to gather opinions and information on this particular pony.
I hope that this situation can be resolved without incident for the both of you. And I would like to remind everyone beforehand to keep this civil.
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Whimsical - it is completely common for buyers/sellers in this community to post ebay messages. We do it when we have NO CLUE how to respond to queries on ebay, or when we need advice on transactions gone bad, or when we need advice because the other party sounds shady. It's normal.
You may have felt "cheated" when you got the pony, but try and think how the seller feels. She described the pony very well and posted a clear picture, then out of the blue you demand a refund? From that picture I would expect to get exactly what you got.
Come to think of it, I think I have a Silver Rain with the same type of hair. She certainly hasn't had a cut, she's just got awful hair out of the box. I'll have to see if I can find her for comparison. Man, I hope she wasn't in the bait box I sold at the Fair!
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Whimsical - maybe if none of your ponies have uneven hair at all you have gotten EXTREMELY lucky. It is very common for ponies to have hair that looks like that right out the box. In my own experience I'd be more suspicious of a hair cut if the hair wasn't uneven, because it would be more likely that someone would trim the hair to make it even than to randomly chop bits off to make it look uneven.
Just as an example, here's the tail of my Love Wishes - I removed her from her package myself so I can personally guarantee that there was no hair cutting involved, she was just made this way.
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It sounds and looks to me like this pony has factory uneven hair. But that is not the seller's responsibility, and they can't be held accountable for the production quality of an item. Your seller provided clear pictures and described the pony to the best of their ability. I can clearly see in the picture the seller provided that the mane is not perfectly even all the way across - the picture shows that some bits are a little longer. I would never think to specifically mention that the tail and mane were not perfectly straight as it is very very common for that to be the case. I can appreciate that you are disappointed with the quality of the pony if it is not up to your standards, and your seller has agreed to take it back and refund the cost. But claiming that they misled you and the item is "not as described" just doesn't seem reasonable.
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Whimsical - maybe if none of your ponies have uneven hair at all you have gotten EXTREMELY lucky. It is very common for ponies to have hair that looks like that right out the box. In my own experience I'd be more suspicious of a hair cut if the hair wasn't uneven, because it would be more likely that someone would trim the hair to make it even than to randomly chop bits off to make it look uneven.
Just as an example, here's the tail of my Love Wishes - I removed her from her package myself so I can personally guarantee that there was no hair cutting involved, she was just made this way.
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It sounds and looks to me like this pony has factory uneven hair. But that is not the seller's responsibility, and they can't be held accountable for the production quality of an item. Your seller provided clear pictures and described the pony to the best of their ability. I would never think to specifically mention that the tail and mane were not perfectly straight as it is very very common for that to be the case. I can appreciate that you are disappointed with the quality of the pony if it is not up to your standards, and your seller has agreed to take it back and refund the cost. But claiming that they misled you and the item is "not as described" just doesn't seem reasonable.
Thank you for your reply and your input.
Again, when did I mention that she did "Mislead" me. I said that felt "Cheated" with the word cheated in brackets. I was expressing a feeling not a fact! I did not say: ""She cheated me".
And her feelings have been taken into account, detrimental to my own.
So please, let us keep it to the facts which are CUT or UNCUT tail and mane.
It has gone too far and I have now been associated with being a "Brat", "Extortion", "Foul Play", etc... that is worse than what would be a "Pony Tribunal". That is defamation and assumptions!!!
Ebay only offers one type of case when an item does not to fit the bill and it unfortunately only comes under one title unfortunately "Not as described" case... If it was down to me, I would have added : "Not As described because few details escaped the seller's attention who did genuinely and honestly list the item as she saw it". Ok, so now we are clear that I am not claiming that the seller was dishonest, mislead me and so on. I am just restricted by the options offered by ebay. The one that is the closest to my claim just appears to be "Not as Described". It is not a case that it is "Unwanted", or it "Does not fit me", or else. I am acting on my rights to return an item on basis that I believe to be legitimate. I am not making accusations. The pony is not unwanted, it just does not appear to me as "uncut". That is all. And I am fully aware that the lady offered a refund to me. I am very happy about this. Though, I am again standing by my opinion and therefore cannot return the pony on the grounds that it is "Unwanted". Opening the return item case is a way to keep the transaction recorded through official channels. She does not know me and do not know her. Keeping it nice and official is legitimate and standard procedure, is it not? Looking at some comments it almost made the all situation sound as if I threatened to cause her injuries or take her to court!??!!??!! It is just an ebay return case people :D
Now can we just focus on the mane and tale please. The rest shall be dealt between the seller, eBay and myself. That is good and correct procedure.
Thank you.
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I was focusing on the mane and tail - my other comments were secondary. I think that my photo of a pony tail straight out the package shows that hair of that uneven quality is very common and is not a sign of a haircut. There is no way to 100 prove that the hair has never met with any scissors, but based on the evidence of the condition of other ponies I don't believe the pony is question has had a haircut.
You are claiming the item was not as described because you believe the pony had a haircut, and the seller said it was uncut. From my own experience with ponies, based on the pictures you have provided, I do not think the pony has had a haircut. So I do not think the item is "not as described." I think the pony you received is exactly as described and exactly as pictured in the auction. I think you are not pleased with the quality and are interpreting that poor manufacturing quality to be a hair cut - but from my interpretation it is not. As such, the item, in my opinion, IS as described. And as such, you claim is not accurate.
You state that you are just following procedure by escalating this to a claim. But initially you did not file a claim and simply contacted the seller to ask about a refund. A lot of refunds through ebay do not go through the claim system, and are dealt with through messages, which is fine and in line with ebay policy. Ebay encourages people to sort things out via messages without filing a claim and filing a claim is not a necessity to following procedure and keeping things official. The seller immediately agreed to refund you if you mailed the pony back, but mentioned that she wouldn't refund shipping. She is in her rights to do that and everything she did was to procedure.
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Whimsical it is extremely common for full messages to be copied and pasted into threads like these to keep words true to how they were posted. That way the person starting the thread is not paraphrasing you in a way that shows their emotions/bias.
That being said, I think this has been going downhill fast. If I were you or pangel I would just send the pony back for a refund of the auction price and wash my hands of the situation. You should be responsible for the shipping costs to get her back to pangel, and (I believe based on ebays own policies) pangel is not obligated to refund you the original cost of shipping.
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I undertand that this is a stressful situation for both the seller and the buyer here, but this is a place to work things out, not to get mad at each other. Most people believe that this is a factory error rather than a haircut. If you want to return the pony then your seller is fine with that, but even by opening a case on ebay, you will still have to pay the cost of returning the pony by recorded delivery, not the seller.
Also it is a common and acceptable thing to copy/paste messages directly here. We are here to help with ebay buying/selling probelms as well as Arena problems, and it is much easier to see both sides of the story if the messages are posted here exactly as they are ;)
Unfortunately this thread is going to have to be locked if we cant all discuss this without getting angry and throwing accusations. Ponylady has already posted a warning to keep it civil, but its not working out :(
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The tail looks just like the photo. I don't see how you can have a problem with the mane or tail at all. This is going by your photos.
Quite frankly, your tail photo looks so nice it's laughable. I don't understand how anyone could complain about this pony!
I don't think she should refund your P&P costs or the original P&P costs.
Anything you say on Ebay to another seller is allowed to be published anywhere. I don't why you would think otherwise. So if you were trying to light a fire under her butt by threatening a claim good job you did it. It's called cause and effect.
Sorry for calling you a brat. I think since you have shown up the posters have backed down a little on the shady calling attitude and are now just sticking to the facts.
There is nothing wrong with the hair. I had that EXACT pony I sold on Ebay and her mane was like that but not as straight. If you wanted a curl/wave why did you bid on a pony that probably had her hair washed at some point and where it's obviously way straight?
Do you want me to take my 100 G3s and take a photo of the mane and show how almost all of them have uneven hair? I hope you are starting to see the problem with your complaint.
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G3s are notorious for having quality control issues. I have pretty much every G3 released in stores in my collection. I opened them all myself, and it's amazing how random the hair can be. Some ponies have good hair, others have terrible. I have had more than one where literally half the tail is a good inch shorter than the other half, and that was straight out of the box. Glue in the hair, uneven hair, chunks cut out of portions of the hair, one section of hair 3 inches longer than the rest, I've seen it all straight out of the box.
It could very well be that this is a factory issue and not a haircut. Either way, the buyer is unhappy. Fair or not, if the buyer is unhappy, give a refund once the pony is returned. It stinks to be out the postage fees, but that's unfortunately the way things go. You can block the buyer from bidding on future auctions if you think she's got unrealistic expectations of G3s so you don't have to go through this again.
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Hi and Welcome MissWhimsicalCupcakes :)
My Silver Rain is still mint in its box but it has exactly the same issue and you can see it. One section of the light blue hair is longer than the bit next to it. Silver Rain doesn't really have curly hair, it's slightly wavy and I think to allow that they make the bottom part longer.
The tail looks like a normal G3 tail, just like the rest of my G3s.
But as your seller has told you to send it back, I suggest you do just that. Send it a tracked method to protect yourself and your seller. It's what eBay will make you do anyway. That way everyone is happy and the world goes back to normal. I've been unhappy with a pony before and it never fits into the collection after that anyway.
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I had never intended this to be a witch hunt after the buyer, so I apologise. It was meant to be a more objective "is it cut, or is it not?"
Thanks everyone for your help. I haven't been able to sleep because I've been very paranoid that I'd listed the pony incorrectly. I'm glad to know that 20+ years of experience with ponies means that I can identify a hair cut. And if that ponies hair was graced with a pair of scissors, then that was a very skillful person, because in my opinion, cut pony hair is very straight.
She opened an eBay case anyways, and I told her to return it, like I had done from the beginning. I'll now have to fork out her original delivery fees. To me the case opening was not necessary (I have my personal feelings about why she did) but I honestly don't know what more she was expecting from me.
The case itself is written contradictory, so my inference from the whole thing is that she understands the hair isn't cut, but just doesn't like it. That wasn't a problem to begin with.
I digress. I feel tired, drained, and glad that this is coming to an end.
Am I allowed to post the user ID of the buyer on here? I don't want anyone else to go through the same process that I just have.
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I'm confused, ebay is making you pay her return shipping?
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Hi Whoa! Sorry let me clarify ^_^;;
I will have to refund the full amount - meaning I will have to pay not only the item cost back, but the original postage cost back to her as well. Not her return costs, thank goodness!
I feel a bit cheated in that respect, but that's the way eBay cases go. I'm out of pocket £3. I know £3 isn't the end of the world, but the principle of the matter bugs me.
It's like if you ordered something off say... QVC and you didn't like the item/didn't need it/duplicate purchase, you wouldn't expect to have the postage costs it cost them refunded to you. It's not their fault that you didn't like it/need it/duplicate item.
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Pangel do NOT forget to open a "cancel transaction" once you get the pony so you don't have to pay fees on something Ebay made you refund.
I vote for an id please. I will happily block. You can pm it to me or wait for a mod to say what they think about posting it on the thread.
I'm so sorry she opened a case. That is so not right since you said you were taking it back to begin with!
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Pangel, I am glad this will coming to a close for you soon. I honestly know how stressful it can be. :(
But in all fairness you handled the situation just as you should. And coming here for help was not wrong nor did it break any rules.
It is up to you whether you want to post the ID or you can PM me or Ringlets with it.
:hug:
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If it makes you feel any better, She's still out the shipping costs also, technically. You paid to ship it to her, she paid to ship it back.
Sorry That it had to result in her being manipulative with ebay. But perhaps she just saw the error of her ways? Perhaps she came to realize that the pony did not have a haircut after all, but she just couldn't stand looking at the factory flaw?
It's hard to guess without seeing the original wording.. Which is why the original wording gets posted. But I suppose that would just make her whine some more. Oh well.
Please do post the ID. I know that if I had any way to avoid your situation in the future, I would really like to do so.
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The original wording is all up in the original post.
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Yes, But I mean The original wording of the ebay case that the buyer has opened up. If you read Pangel's previous posts, she says that "The case itself is written contradictory, so my inference from the whole thing is that she understands the hair isn't cut, but just doesn't like it."
Hence the curiousity of her original wording :)
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Oh I gotcha, maybe she will copy and paste that when she comes back.
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Being as she offered to post her ID anyways, the user ID of this individual is: fleurdelysinuk
For your information, I added my reaction to the case details with emoticons. Anything with "<<" next to it, is added by me.
These are the case details:
Details the buyer provided:
Problem: The item is not as described << :huh: contested, but okay
The buyer has tried contacting you << :) true
The buyer paid on 10 Jul, 2012 << :) true
The buyer contacted you through email. << :) ebay messages, but same difference
The item is wrong << :| Uh...
You have not responded to the buyer << :huh: Wha...
You aren't working with the buyer to solve the problem << :mad:
Additional information:
'I contacted the seller to let her know that I wnted to return the pony and asked for the return procedure. I did not state the reasons for my return at once so the seller replied to me asuuming that the pony was unwanted and so informed me that she would not refund the P&P in this case. Without asking me my reasons for returning the pony. I then let her know that I was disappointed a the listing indicated that the hair did appear to me as chopped in some places. I also informed her that I was happy to open a case. Which is normal procedure. She then went onto an independent My Little Pony public forum and literately published my messages to her for everybody to see. Copies and Pasted, literately. In return, it created a lot of negative comments and hurtful assumptions about me. Here is the the link to the thread: http://mlparena.com/mlp/index.php/topic,302421.0.html I trust that communications between a seller and his buyer should remain confidential, although I do understand that it is her right to seek advice and vent her frustration to her community. '
The buyer wants:
The buyer prefers to return the item in exchange for a full refund.
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I've also put a complaint in to eBay for extortion against this user after she threatened to open an eBay case unless I agreed to issue a full refund.
And in my opinion, eBay cases are not 'normal proceedure'. They are a last resort when all communication fails between a seller and buyer. I responded to all but one of her messages, and gave her the opportunity to represent herself here. If I didn't communicate with her... Well, the answer to that much is obvious.
I'm sure this is a typo, but it reads as a Freudian slip: "I then let her know that I was disappointed a the listing indicated that the hair did appear to me as chopped in some places."
I'm also glad she added the link to the forum as well.
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So... you offered her exactly what she wanted from the beginning? A full refund on return? I'm sorry, I fail to see why opening a case was required.
Geez, it sounds like she has more issue with you C&Ping her OMGPRIVATE communications than with being proven wrong about the cut hair.
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I am sorry but this is nuts at this point.
The buyer needs to return the pony for a full refund. I will say it again but the refund will not take place until it is proven within ebay's dispute system that she has shipped the pony back and you have received it. She has to ship it back with tracking per ebay's site rules.
Pangel, I can only suggest to you that within the dispute you make it clear that you offered her a full refund upon the return of the pony. I would also contact ebay so they are aware of the situation. A bunch of smiley faces does not prove to me she is handling this in a professional manner.
This thread again was started with the intent of gathering opinions about the hair being cut. Which again I will state is quite normal.
And I am going to remind everyone one last time to make sure this stays civil.
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I am sorry but this is nuts at this point.
The buyer needs to return the pony for a full refund. I will say it again but the refund will not take place until it is proven within ebay's dispute system that she has shipped the pony back and you have received it. She has to ship it back with tracking per ebay's site rules.
Pangel, I can only suggest to you that within the dispute you make it clear that you offered her a full refund upon the return of the pony. I would also contact ebay so they are aware of the situation. A bunch of smiley faces does not prove to me she is handling this in a professional manner.
This thread again was started with the intent of gathering opinions about the hair being cut. Which again I will state is quite normal.
And I am going to remind everyone one last time to make sure this stays civil.
The smiley faces were added by me as my reaction when I read through the case details. Sorry for any added confusion on my part there. My face was just dropping as I was reading it in disbelief!
And yes, I'm very confused as to why she felt the need to open a case, especially as she is going to receive the very thing I first offered o_O Maybe she doesn't trust that I will refund her?
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It's my opinion that in the event of a return, it is best to keep it on file with eBay even if you trust each other 100%. This way, the buyer has record with ebay that the return is taking place, and the item can be tracked. The seller then has proof that the item was shipped. This way, a buyer can't claim to have shipped, when they really didn't. And a seller can't claim they never got the item. It just keeps everything secure.
If I was doing a return on an item I bought from my grandma on ebay, I think I would still open a claim so that ebay could keep track of it also so we can make sure both parties are taken care of.
WHat I don't get is why she says you are not trying to work with her. Or is that just a part of the process that gets updated once you respond to it? Ive never had to actually do one of these, so Im not really sure on that part if she deliberately said you wouldn't work with her.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
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I welcome your opinions, Maniah! :)
I think you can actually open a return request on eBay, without opening a dispute. It's essentially the same thing, but it doesn't go against your selling record.
When you open a dispute, you have a drop-down list of options. And she selected the one to say that I'm not trying to work with her. I don't really know why, either.
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WHat I don't get is why she says you are not trying to work with her. Or is that just a part of the process that gets updated once you respond to it? Ive never had to actually do one of these, so Im not really sure on that part if she deliberately said you wouldn't work with her.
Nope it's not "part of the process," if I remember correctly from opening my own case, you have to check a box or select a link that specifically indicates the seller is not trying to work with you. So she is misrepresenting the communication. And it's proven by the link she provided to this thread :nuts:
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Oh hun, I have been in total shock for you reading through this thread. You have done everything as it should be and handled yourself with a great deal of grace. The buyer just seems upset that this was brought out in the public and is trying to get back at you by opening a case. Keep in mind that it is still possible for her to leave feedback after she returns the pony and receives a refund. She seems bitter enough that she could neg you so keep that in mind. You might be able to dispute it though if you keep all correspondance. Just to add to the "haircut" discussion, I have many G3s purchased new by me that look exactly like this. Silver Rain originally had a wave to her hair and many of those hairstyles look uneven once they go straight. She is gorgeous and you should be able to sell her no problem after all of this.
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I welcome your opinions, Maniah! :)
I think you can actually open a return request on eBay, without opening a dispute. It's essentially the same thing, but it doesn't go against your selling record.
Ah I see the difference. I didn't realize there was one. Good stuff to know! Thank you.
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I welcome your opinions, Maniah! :)
I think you can actually open a return request on eBay, without opening a dispute. It's essentially the same thing, but it doesn't go against your selling record.
Ah I see the difference. I didn't realize there was one. Good stuff to know! Thank you.
Just fyi, if a seller is taking back a return you are not supposed to open up a case with Ebay. This is a bad habit. You are supposed to open up a case when the seller is not working with you and Ebay has to step it.
If you ship back an item and don't get a return you can open a case just as easily. It's easy and all you need to do is provide your tracking.
Being a top rated seller you are only allowed so many cases to be opened. It doesn't matter if the case is closed in an amicable manner. All that matters is that a case was opened and it counts against the seller's record. Once a case is opened you can't get it off your record. Ebay if ridiculous with the amount they allow you. I can't remember the amount but I think it's like two.
Now, when a buyer opens a case, it doesn't go on a record that you can see. BUT it is on your record that Ebay can see. If a buyer opens too many cases, your id gets put under review for fraud. Go on the Ebay forum and you will see many buyers complaining about this cause they thought they could open up cases all willy nilly.
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Wow. That's some serious limitations. Thanks for the info RPB! That's good to know!
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From the tone of all her communications, even prior to her knowledge of this forum post, I was expecting a negative. There seemed to be very little I could do to difuse the situation from the start. It's frustrating when that happens.
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Wow. That's some serious limitations. Thanks for the info RPB! That's good to know!
No problem. Most people think a case doesn't hurt anything but it does :-) Of course, open a case if the seller is unresponsive or scammed you!
Anyways, Yeah Pangel I think you will be getting a negative. Oh well. Your smileys were hilarious. I was laughing our loud for real.
I'm so happy I blocked her although luckily she is in the UK but may do some shopping from the US.
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WHat I don't get is why she says you are not trying to work with her. Or is that just a part of the process that gets updated once you respond to it? Ive never had to actually do one of these, so Im not really sure on that part if she deliberately said you wouldn't work with her.
Nope it's not "part of the process," if I remember correctly from opening my own case, you have to check a box or select a link that specifically indicates the seller is not trying to work with you. So she is misrepresenting the communication. And it's proven by the link she provided to this thread :nuts:
This is true ^^ Hopefully ebay will take a look at this thread and see the full story . She is not being fair with you now - you already did what you could to sort out the situation - there is nothing more you could have done :hug:
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I've logged onto eBay this morning, and she hasn't responded to the case yet.
She needs to confirm she will be sending the pony back. Does anyone know how long eBay keep the case open at this stage, because the funds are on hold in my Paypal account.
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I know that ebay.uk and ebay.us have different timelines for responding to disputes.
I never asked you which one she purchased on but I am going to assume UK since you live in England. But I think Ebay Uk is 10 days and Ebay US is 7 days.
I am sure though when she responds she will have to enter proof of shipment back to you. So maybe she has not had time to get to the Post Office or maybe she has seen the error in her ways and moved on.
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Could just be a last F-You on her part in trying to get your funds messed up :(
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This seems to be happening a lot; seller describes pony, buyer isn't happy with pony. How can this be avoided? As seller and buyer will often have different idea on what is an "acceptable description"
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More pictures than you think is nescessary.. Use photo bucket or something and embed the pictures into the description text using HTML to save on some money, and overly describe any teeny tiny flaw.. The PRAY that they read it all.
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Reading the auction is the problem. Many buyers don't and then leave inappropriate feedback.
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Wow sorry you are going through this. Thanks for posting the username, not someone I want to deal with. I find it *very* odd she didn't give you a reason for wanting to return in her very first message. What are you, psychic? a detective? why did she think you had to ask her for a reason if she wasn't just upfront and offering one? and why then when you offered a return, no problem, did she get all uppity about you not asking for a reason and threaten you with a case?
*shakes head* some funny ebay buyers out there, hope it is all closed off and sorted for you soon.
and for what its worth that pony looks gorgeous!!
- Gaspode
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Just bumping to see if you ever got a tracking number or anything?
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Hi guys! Sorry I have been away this weekend for a wedding.
Pony is back here today! Submitted a full refund. Glad this is over with x____x
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What do you think of how she looks now that she is back? I mean, she came back in her original condition right?
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Oh god I'm happy it's over too. Now you can relist her :-)
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I hope she wasn't thinking that because the hair needs to be styled! :( I've noticed many new collectors aren't aware of how to style pony hair and aren't interested in learning...
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Phew. *This* is what has been putting me off returning to ebay from either side.
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:hug: I am glad you can put this behind you now.
Hopefully now you can relist her and have her go to a home that will love her?
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:hug: I'm really glad that you got your pony back now, and you dont have to deal with this anymore. I'm sure you'll find a new home for her soon too :)
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I'm so happy for you. Anyone would be MAD to send that precious bundle back, if I was buying G3's atm, I'd take her happily. and honestly, for three pounds? pfft, those girls often go for more than that.
My g3's are all over the place. Glue in tails, over symbols, smudged eyes, etc, slightly uneven hair is the least of their problems! Even some of the g2's had factory flaws, my Tipsy Tulip and Moonshadow both had tail pulls straight out of package, and I had two Cupcakes - Mine and a friend's, both bought and unpackaged together, but mine had amazing hair, hers was shockingly bad.
I'm a perfectionist, but seriously, I'd be scared to sell to her. When you know a pony, you don't nearly scrutinize it as much as you should sometimes... Thankfully I always take gazillions of photos, just like with my real horses before they go on a transport!
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Oh goodness...reading through this was disturbing for me. That pony doesn't have any haircuts at all. I can't tell you how many ponies I have taken out of the box that are uneven, that just sooooo common with G3s. I am really sorry that you have had to go through this at this level over something that is clearly a factory issue. Buyers do not always know about factory errors even though they may call themselves collectors...they may not actually study the common issues with each generation. It doesn't mean they have to like it, but if you want even hair you most likely will not find that often with many G3's and especially if they have had their hair brushed. Its always a good idea to give your seller a chance before opening cases. That is last resort. Selling on ebay is so hard now.
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It is as important to be a good buyer as it is to be a good seller on ebay!
For instance, I just received a winterberry in atrocious condition. Her listing said 'no major pen marks', but she has pen all over her. I considered leaving bad feedback, I was extremely disappointed, but then I looked at the listing and her feedback profile, and didn't. She'd left me good feedback, which usually indicates good faith. She'd had no idea who the other pony in the listing was, and the majority of the pen was on one side. Looking at the other listings, she was obviously a mother of several children, and the problems had obviously either been overlooked, or she'd described the wrong pony, as there were two listings for ponies, and as I bought both, I knew the other one was without major pen marks.
A simple mistake by someone who leads a busy life and it's a wonder gets online at all! Obviously not a collector, and obviously not malicious.
I left feedback for the good transaction, not the other. I didn't want to affect her 100% score for a simple mistake, or even bother her with the details. I paid next to nothing, I was happy regardless.
You really need to look at the seller when these things happen, and not jump right to ebay like a ninja. You can usually work it out with the seller, just use tracking just like you would with a dispute, take screenies/photos of everything as proof, and it usually all works out. A good feedback rating usually indicates good communication! I've never had an ebay dispute for anything other than items getting lost in the post. Even then sometimes the seller and I work it out, but I only buy replaceable items from those areas/sellers in future!
Oh, and put return address labels on everything, you never know!
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Did you message the seller at all in that situation, stormness? I can certainly understand busy lives and honest mistakes, but even if you're not going to leave a negative or don't need the seller to do anything, I still think you should, at minimun, let them know in a situation like that. You may not be the only person to receive an item that did not match the description, and while you might not mind, a lot of people would. It would be in the sellers best interest to at least be made aware that they had made a mistake so they could be more careful in the future.
I once received a pony with all sorts of marks, cancer, and haircuts that the seller hadn't mentioned. I didn't really mind as it became a bait for me, but I still sent the seller a friendly message explaining the flaws and giving them some links to information on pony conditions, like cancer. That way they hopefully wouldn't get any disappointed sellers in the future. They were very apologetic and receptive of the new information and I still left positive feedback :)
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Stormness it's being too nice that lets scammers proliferate :) You don't have to be nasty but communicating with the seller is good instead of feeling sorry for them. That stuff needs a new thread!
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I'm jumping on this last part of the conversation of gracious buyers: I've recently purchased a MIB Blossomforth, that was shipped in a bubble mailer. When I got her the box was ALL smashed up. The pony is fine, and I'm not a MIB collector [she was just the only one available]. I gave positive feedback, but sent the seller a message explaining that some collectors probably wouldn't have taken this too kindly. If the purpose of my purchase had been for her to remain MIB, I would not have been happy....
Oh! And I'm glad this whole thing seems sorted out. That pony looks so cute and amazing, I'd be delighted to take her off your hands :) No complaints at all
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Ray,
I have had that happen with something and I did the same thing. For some items (dolls mainly) I want them mint in box. So when I received a crushed box I contacted them and explained why they shouldn't have used a bubble mailer. Luckily, this was the one situation where I was going to open the doll so it wasn't an issue, but any other time and I would have requested a return.
I also warned someone not to ever use duct tape. Although it is wonderful for most everything else, it does not hold well on boxes. In fact it melts off and if it gets wet your whole package might come apart. A seller once sent me a heavy costume taped with duct tape and all I received was the box minus dress. Lucky for the person I warned the box still held all its contents, but they came close to falling out as one seam was open and the tape was flopping about.
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Ray,
I have had that happen with something and I did the same thing. For some items (dolls mainly) I want them mint in box. So when I received a crushed box I contacted them and explained why they shouldn't have used a bubble mailer. Luckily, this was the one situation where I was going to open the doll so it wasn't an issue, but any other time and I would have requested a return.
I also warned someone not to ever use duct tape. Although it is wonderful for most everything else, it does not hold well on boxes. In fact it melts off and if it gets wet your whole package might come apart. A seller once sent me a heavy costume taped with duct tape and all I received was the box minus dress. Lucky for the person I warned the box still held all its contents, but they came close to falling out as one seam was open and the tape was flopping about.
:) I think this is just good practice. It's us helping out new or inexperienced sellers and we are hopefully saving other collectors from missing out on what they purchased. Hopefully this good karma will come our way, I just hope that when I ship stuff, that I get reasonable and understanding buyers. :)
Thanks for the heads-up about duct tape. I had always thought it was water-proof [if not resistant] I would never have thought it wouldn't have held a box together! Thanks for the warning!
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You're welcome! Duct tape fixes everything...except packages for shipping. ;)
I agree, I hope that people are understanding when I sell to them too. It can be stressful worrying about it!
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Wow, you had boxes come apart with duct tape? That's the first of heard of anything like that happening. I've shipped with duct tape a few times and received things with duct tape plenty of times. Heck, we use duct tape on cardboard signs out in the rain at work. Now, I know masking tape is useless for packages, but I've never had an issue with duct tape.
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Wow, you had boxes come apart with duct tape? That's the first of heard of anything like that happening. I've shipped with duct tape a few times and received things with duct tape plenty of times. Heck, we use duct tape on cardboard signs out in the rain at work. Now, I know masking tape is useless for packages, but I've never had an issue with duct tape.
I didn't know it was bad either but it makes sense. I have to say, it does look unprofessional too.
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It does look pretty bad, obviously real packing tape is preferred, but I've used it for boxes among friends or arena swaps and the like. But I've received packages from costume makers and a few other places wrapped with duct tape with no problems.
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It's fallen apart on at least three packages I've received. Each time it was during rainy season so I think that had a lot to do with it. It was enough to make me decide never to use it.
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Yikes! Well I guess it's hit or miss, which is certainly enough to caution against it.