Fell off the G4 bandwagon right about when the 'brony' thing started.
Okay, more like I leapt the heck off the bandwagon and ran screaming in the other direction... *sad*
Fell off the G4 bandwagon right about when the 'brony' thing started.
I was just wondering if anyone else feels the same way?Nope, I've loooooong passed that line. Years ago in fact. It was just a few weeks ago when I decided to completely nuke all of my G4 related works out of spite, fanart, stories, everything. The only thing G4-related now is my Fashion Style Twilight, who I have special connections to so I won't sell her.
Lore-Lei I'm sad to hear you nuked your G4 art. I've been sad that you are so vehemently not into G4 anymore and I hope you don't lose your love for G1 and G3 because I am not sure how we are supposed to face the cold dark world without ponies in our hearts if not clutched tightly to our chests. Also all this time I assumed it was G1 Twilight you've been hiding away behind your CDs...Oh don't worry, I've got backup for that, namely Lalaloopsy and Strawberry Shortcake. It's why I've not coming to this site as much anymore. But still, G3 at the least will have a special place in my heart for its purity.
Fell off the G4 bandwagon right about when the 'brony' thing started.
Okay, more like I leapt the heck off the bandwagon and ran screaming in the other direction... *sad*
Fell off the G4 bandwagon right about when the 'brony' thing started.
Okay, more like I leapt the heck off the bandwagon and ran screaming in the other direction... *sad*
Ha! For me, it was right about the time they released the news about the new design and Lauren Faust's art.... Never been a fan, never going to be a fan....
Still longing for a design where they look like HORSES again.
I wouldn't say total interest lost, but getting more selective. I'm focusing on a few key things, instead of getting everything.
the terms brony, cutie mark, and the horrible, annoying "everypony" makes me twitch back in utter horror every time I see it.
the terms brony, cutie mark, and the horrible, annoying "everypony" makes me twitch back in utter horror every time I see it.
I meant to comment on this earlier but forgot. I also dislike the term "every pony". It's so unnecessary. It's not like replacing the word "hands" with "hooves" because ponies don't have hands. But everyone has a "body". And it's even more weird considering the show has established that there are multiple whole civilizations of non-pony people. So the normal "everybody" would be more inclusive. I'm even more confused by fans using it in normal everyday conversation.
Maybe it just comes down to that I find it too "cutsie" which is the same reason I don't especially like the term "cutie mark" either.
I wouldn't say total interest lost, but getting more selective. I'm focusing on a few key things, instead of getting everything.
the terms brony, cutie mark, and the horrible, annoying "everypony" makes me twitch back in utter horror every time I see it.
I meant to comment on this earlier but forgot. I also dislike the term "every pony". It's so unnecessary. It's not like replacing the word "hands" with "hooves" because ponies don't have hands. But everyone has a "body". And it's even more weird considering the show has established that there are multiple whole civilizations of non-pony people. So the normal "everybody" would be more inclusive. I'm even more confused by fans using it in normal everyday conversation.
Maybe it just comes down to that I find it too "cutsie" which is the same reason I don't especially like the term "cutie mark" either.
I wouldn't say total interest lost, but getting more selective. I'm focusing on a few key things, instead of getting everything.
I suppose this is kind if like me. At first, I kind of wanted everything. Now I am very selective. I saw a G4 magazine in Wal-Mart a few days ago and flipped through it and enjoyed the art. It was pretty, but I asked myself...."Do you really need it?" So I put it back. Now if it was G1 I would have bought it without a second thought.
I just want new characters and themes like G1. I don't get this main six thing or Celestia and Cadence stuff. Let's get some new stuff out there! I like the new moulds. They are super cute. If they had some new characters I'd be buying away. But it's the main six, Celestia, Shining Armor, Cadence, and that green pony (I forget her name).
Really, these faces are cute. MORE CHARACTERS!!!
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I like the term "everypony", but you have hit the nail on the head on one of the things that does annoy me about it (or rather, the way bronies treat it), albeit unintentionally.
I meant to comment on this earlier but forgot. I also dislike the term "every pony". It's so unnecessary. It's not like replacing the word "hands" with "hooves" because ponies don't have hands. But everyone has a "body". And it's even more weird considering the show has established that there are multiple whole civilizations of non-pony people. So the normal "everybody" would be more inclusive.
The humor has become more forced, the characters more flanderized, the messages more clumsy.That's pretty much my main criticism with it at times. It tries too hard to be funny (whereas in the previous season it was more natural humor, and you'd think that the writers would know not to force humor, seeing as at least some of them come from more comedic backgrounds), there is flanderization, and while the morals are still good (at least at times), the way they build up to them seems less so. I still care about the show, but I think it could do with revisiting its roots (including season one and two).
To be honest, I've never liked G4.
They never held my affection like G1, my curiosity like G2 or the enjoyment of G3. I see the G4 in shops and wrinkle my nose.
I think I'll happily stay within the generations I enjoy.
I imagine her signature pony's nose wrinkling. It's even cuter that way.
... flanderized ...flanderization
I have to disagree on this point; we were kids with G1, and G1 was marketed to us as a collection. We were encouraged to collect them all and 'step into the world of MLP'. We didn't need to come in at the beginning to be able to do that. Each year was marketed individually and it wouldn't take a lot for the animation to do what G1 did, or the comics to do the same and broaden the castlist a little. Though I think the characters are there, just not generally in brushable production.
Those of us who are tired of G4 need to remember that it's targeted at an age group that renews and there are new youngsters picking up all the time and S6 is a good example of where we feel the story needs to move a lot further along but a new viewer especially one who's 5 or 8 needs to get introduced without needing to have seen all previous episodes.
Those of us who are tired of G4 need to remember that it's targeted at an age group that renews and there are new youngsters picking up all the time and S6 is a good example of where we feel the story needs to move a lot further along but a new viewer especially one who's 5 or 8 needs to get introduced without needing to have seen all previous episodes.
Taffeta and Leave a Whisper: Thanks to you both for responding to my paragraph.Continuity doesn't stop a kids show from being great and successful.I mean, Steven Universe is one of the best cartoons of these last years, and it has success while having a storyline that advances and changes the status quo a lot(when CN puts in on instead of Teen Titans Go *sigh*), though it doesn't have a toyline to sell (even if it honestly could).
However in both cases I think your response seems to address the issue of overproducing the same toys which i agree with but I was referring to the show itself and the way it never seems to escape an "introductory" feel, like it's stuck in one place and doesn't really move forward into more complex storylines that follow from something that happened before. It's shown the capacity to do that, but it usually doesn't and the plot of most episodes tend to be pretty close to the starting point.
This opinions expressed in this thread do highlight that there are two distinct issues here: the toys, and the show. While of course are tied together they are two different things and people are more focused on one or the other...they both need to be well done or people start to lose whatever it was they loved about them.
G1 kept fresh by having lots of different ponies, yes, also it was simply shorter than G4. G3 didn't even have to put out a regular show on schedule as it was all movies. G4 endeavors to introduce a set of characters then move them forward through life and as that time runs longer and longer, it gets harder to both move them forward and not leave new viewers behind. That's the challenge I was pointing out: if any episode was too dependent on things before it, a small kid getting put in front of it for the first time would have trouble understanding what's going on.
I can't agree more as to the variety of the toys. The show has been so far ahead of the toys in new and different characters and when the flawed and boring brushables were getting new sculpts I was so excited that things were going to be different, but that difference hasn't really turned out the way I was hoping for. I really can't grasp how the blind bags can have so many diverse characters made so similar in shape to the show and seems like so many poses (when they are actually only a few poses but done pretty well) and not bring that accuracy and variety to the larger toys. It's just odd.
MJNSEIFER: thanks for explaining that to me. Even in the case of Ned Flanders himself I think they did explore a depth of his charcter even though his shtick was narrow and redundant and yes, I too wondered if the real Pinky got eliminated in the mirror pool episode.
Taffeta and Leave a Whisper: Thanks to you both for responding to my paragraph.
However in both cases I think your response seems to address the issue of overproducing the same toys which i agree with but I was referring to the show itself and the way it never seems to escape an "introductory" feel, like it's stuck in one place and doesn't really move forward into more complex storylines that follow from something that happened before. It's shown the capacity to do that, but it usually doesn't and the plot of most episodes tend to be pretty close to the starting point.
G3 also had the Ponyville line, which were slightly higher quality, blind bag sized toys. Moulded hair is hardly new. Even G1 had its stint with some of the Petities.
they have styling tutorials for ponies on YT. I styled my Star Dreams' hair after Starlight Gutter's style (which I regret, because I don't like her). It's not easy for the newbie, bit its fun achiving your desired result,.G3 also had the Ponyville line, which were slightly higher quality, blind bag sized toys. Moulded hair is hardly new. Even G1 had its stint with some of the Petities.
But in those eras, the molded hair products weren't the primary product line. I'm not entirely sure what is the primary line these days, but it certainly doesn't seem like it's the brushables.
What's ironic is I can't style my ponies' hair to save my life. ;) I learned the hard way just to leave their hair the way it came from the factory because every time I try to style it I end up with a complete mess, lol! So while I see the appeal to 'show-accurate' molded hair... I just don't like it, personally.
I've noticed with the comics the Year 2 and 3 ponies seemed to never move to Memory Lane as they appeared regularly well after they were gone from toy shelves.In terms of the UK comic, I would say they didn't. With the exception of Majesty, only a handful of old ponies would pop up in new stories in later issues. There were some recycled stories which is probably what you are thinking of - I forget how they dressed this up, but they basically just reprinted old stories to take up space. But actual new involvement from old pony characters, not so much unless they were associated with a particular event or holiday.
No kids were getting them
I don't watch the FIM show, so I can't comment on it in detail - I never really got into it and the odd eps I've seen since haven't grabbed me either. So I won't offer an opinion on what I don't know ;)
G1 had animation. A lot of kids watched it growing up. Not all countries had it broadcast, because we didn't live in a digital age as we do now, where such things are easier. I grew up with the comics, which you could come into at any time because the stories focused mostly on the ponies out at any one time. The G1 animation, when it was there, sort of did the same thing.
The difference I see with G1 and G4 is that G1 was the cake and the animation eps were an optional cherry on the top, but absolutely not a core part of the line. Other toppings, such as the comics, existed, and even without anything else, there was enough in pony toys and backcards for kids to just get on with things.
G4, the animation is the cake and the toys are the toppings. In short, everything is tied to and depends on the animation, thus the same ponies get churned out over and over again. I can't comment, as I said, on the show's content in detail because I don't watch it. But I think that G4 needs it, where G1 didn't. And that's probably the problem, because a series can only go on so long before people run out of ideas. The same is obviously true of a toy line, but a toy line stifled by a TV series is in my opinion problematic.
G1 had the freedom to be what it was because the animation is literally just there to advertise the toys. With G4, the relationship is much more complex.
Regarding what LM said, it is small children driving the pony line, but that doesn't mean small children are stupid or that they only buy the mane six over and over again. I'll reiterate what I said before, but I have seen kids in the UK who are looking through the ponies for specific characters, or who are very clear and articulate on what they want and why. The ponies that do not sell well here are often the Mane 6 varieties. I don't know how to rationalise that with the success of the toy line, but I would suggest that it is related to the fact Hasbro is putting less money into production and character creation, thus can take a bigger risk on mane six not selling. There will of course always be parents who buy indiscriminiately for kids, and kids who newly get into it. And there are collectors who buy lots of mane 6 on sale for customs and the like. Adults buying ponies does affect the market, because adults have more disposable income than most children.
I think it's wrong to imply modern kids are somehow more superficial than we were as children. We have the comparison of our own prior experiences. For them, this is what My Little Pony is, and there isn't a comparison. If we're talking about its success with kids, we can't compare it to prior generations, because only the adults can really make that comparison. That's the flaw in the argument for me. I will stand by my belief that these same kids who love MLP now would be no different from how we were in the years of G1 if they had the range offered to them.
At least you got a show accurate Wind Whistler.
I guess that's what I was thinking of. And the UK did seem have a stringent no unicorn/pegasus policy when it came to toys through Year 3. Also, no flocking, and no expansion sets (except Twinkle Eyes). At least you got a show accurate Wind Whistler.
And yes, lostpony, I agree with your sentiment. But the ponies then did exist, just in every country BUT the UK. Other countries that had comics also had the ponies to go with those stories. It is only the UK where, although we packaged them in UK design packages, we didn't have them on sale. And as I said, I'm sure it was about risk and quantity on a largely new and unproven toy line in this country - but it was still mean to introduce us to ponies we couldn't get. And, really, when you think about it, that is exactly what Hasbro are now doing to everyone, not just the UK kids - by putting ponies out there as blind bags and in the show, but not on shelves.
Shabi, I've seen you around a little and I'm so happy we have member(s) in Moscow! If you are interested in answering a bunch of touristy questions,I LOVE these kinds of questions! I'm so glad you asked!
What's commercial stuff like there, are ponies in stores and are they affordable?
Do you get variety there?
Are you able to buy stuff abroad or is it expensive?
I love the way the show sounds in other languages....your English seems pretty good, is the translation good (literal) or are the characters different in Russian?
Thanks!!
SpoilerQuoteShabi, I've seen you around a little and I'm so happy we have member(s) in Moscow! If you are interested in answering a bunch of touristy questions,I LOVE these kinds of questions! I'm so glad you asked!
What's commercial stuff like there, are ponies in stores and are they affordable?
Do you get variety there?
Are you able to buy stuff abroad or is it expensive?
I love the way the show sounds in other languages....your English seems pretty good, is the translation good (literal) or are the characters different in Russian?
Thanks!!
Ponies are definitely in stores and we get everything except USA exclusives. But we get everything with a huge delay and Guardians of Harmony for example was just released and the "new" blindbag wave is 14 (while other countries get 19). They're hardly affordable tho... In USA 5$ is very cheap while I can eat for a whole day for 5$. All toys come with extra charge for shipping to our country. But many kids have them so no matter what the price is MLP is very popular here.
Oh, I can talk about Russian translation of the FiM show for hours. A company named Carousel translates FiM into Russian and broadcasts it. Translation of the first two seasons was more than just horrible. The voices were plain, they didn't show real emotions and character, they made ponies look like excited little girls all the time. They were so squeaky and impossible to listen and hard to understand what they say. Two names were translated - Twily's and Rainbow's. They were translated literally and while I don't find them terrible most people do. Twilight Sparkle is Sumerechnaya Iskorka in Russian and Rainbow Dash is... Raduga Dash. Yeah, they didn't bother to translate the "Dash" part so it's just a random slam of Russian and English words. I've once ordered a Happy Meal with a pony toy and on the bottom of the box all names were translated in a "cutesy" way. Pinkie Pie was turned into a Cutie, Applejack was (roughly translated because English doesn't have the suffixes we have in Russian) Applie, Rarity was Beauty and Fluttershy was Shame. What a shame! :lol: It's like they're not ponies but an opposite of seven deadly sins. Me and my friends nearly died of laughter when we saw that. Later we found out that it was Hasbro Russia's wish to translate Twi and Dash. It was in the contract or Carousel couldn't translate and broadcast FiM. McDonald's pony names was their own idea tho. When MLP fans heard the terrible voice acting and even more terrible translation they wrote a petition to Carousel and Hasbro Russia asking if they could improve the quality of translation. They were heard and the new seasons were much better! They still managed to mistranslate some jokes and made some Twilight's lessons quite the opposite to the original. Some fun facts: Nightmare Moon was translated as Moon Pony. And the phrase "You are the mare in the moon, Nightmare Moon!" probably broke translator's minds. So they just translated it as "You are Moon Pony, Moon Pony!". It became a meme in Russian MLP community. Also, we don't have a word for "rainboom". We can only say "rainbow boom". And Fluttershy yelled "Rainbow did rainbow boom!"...
You know what's much more funny? I bought two g3.5 magazines in a lot with g4 magazines. I only needed g4 ones but I didn't mind to get extras since the whole lot was just 3$. I love all generations so I kept them. I didn't have tome to read them but I just opened one and saw translated names. Better sit down while you read this as you might fall on the floor laughing like I did!
So Star Song is Star Song. Okay. Scootaloo is Butterfly. Toola-Roola is Brush. Rainbow Dash is just Rainbow. Pinkie Pie is... Bunting. Cheerilee is Cherry. Well, I could understand them naming ponies after their symbols but now it's just random. And Sweetie-Belle (yes, it has a dash for some reason) is... Swirlyhorn. SWIRLYHORN?! Seriously? Every unicorn has a swirly horn! >_< The text says "Every pony has a beautiful name".
Our magazines are translated from Polish tho. And I have no idea if Polish magazines are translated from English and not some other language that was translated from some other language that was translated from English. So basically it's Chinese whispers.
Recently I integrated myself into Russian MLP collector community. I'm the only I know who's older than 20. I still haven't seen a single person who collect any generation that is not g4. I can't even say we have pony collectors in Russia. Bronies only care about the show and hand crafted merch, mostly plushes. The only people who collect brushables are 9-15 yo girls. And they don't just do it for the sake of it. They do it for attention. The more rare ponies you have the cooler you are. They don't know ANYTHING about restoration and sometimes ruin their ponies. Most of them have their youtube channels where they take the name of some rare pony, show it to the camera and talk about pony stuff. Same with LPS here. If you have a standing up cat you're basically a god. They call fakies 3Ds (wat). I'm mostly disgusted by Russian MLP community but also pleased there is any attention to rare ponies at all. After all, the only generations we had in Russia was late G3 and G3.5...
EDIT: Totally forgot to answer other questions, sorry. Yes, we have variety! We had all European exclusives except Star Swirl. Ukraine, on the other hand, had everything, they even have BaB plushes and some USA exclusives ;)
I don't know about other people, but I myself am able to buy anything from anywhere. I just don't have enough room for it... Of course it's much more expensive than buying in stores but I won't have to buy it abroad if it was in stores.
the terms brony, cutie mark, and the horrible, annoying "everypony" makes me twitch back in utter horror every time I see it.
I meant to comment on this earlier but forgot. I also dislike the term "every pony". It's so unnecessary. It's not like replacing the word "hands" with "hooves" because ponies don't have hands. But everyone has a "body". And it's even more weird considering the show has established that there are multiple whole civilizations of non-pony people. So the normal "everybody" would be more inclusive. I'm even more confused by fans using it in normal everyday conversation.
Maybe it just comes down to that I find it too "cutsie" which is the same reason I don't especially like the term "cutie mark" either.
To me, a MLP needs to have brushable hair. It's just one of those expectations (like a Hot Wheels car needs wheels* or a Transformer needs to, you know, transform**) that comes with the toyline. I don't have a problem with the bronies, but I do have a problem with them changing the way things are supposed to be. That they can whine for 'molded hair' and then be catered to by Hasbro, or the show inserting memes to pander to that particular audience is what bothers me. If you come into an existing fandom, you need to respect that franchise, not alter it to what you want.
Either way it's hard to say the show is a toy ad when the ponies on the show are not available as toys, isn't it? Last I checked, advertisements are to inspire you to buy a product. Making me want to buy a product that isn't available is a waste and yes, kinda mean. Pout.
But I will say that in my opinion G1's animation was pretty irrelevant to the success of My Little Pony. In short, the show has become the base point for collectors to talk about G4 now, because of how FIM and the toys are related, but this is a problem in my opinion.
G4 was obviously taken over by its show. The toys dominated by the plans for the show at first. The ponies selected as main and major characters were informed by that.Is this excluding the Mane Six? I know that Lauren Faust planned on having six G1 ponies that got changed into the Mane Six we know, so the show would have influenced the toys there, wouldn't they?
That explains why there were so much serious focus on Cheerilee in Season 1.such a shame that marketing overpowers creative vision. I can understand why Faust up and left, if Hasbro had more reign than she did. I know it's their IP and all, but as an artist, myself, I can imagine how sucky not being able to go where you want with ideas and characters and direction can be.
Basically, when she showed her concept, they told her she had to use the ponies they were planning on using, but could give them whatever personality and story she wanted. They also let her use the original designs for Applejack and Spike.Ah, that makes more sense. I would have been really surprised if I had been wrong about Lauren planning to use those G1 ponies originally, thanks for confirming. To this day, I still sympathise with Lauren for not being able to use, what I am sure are her childhood favorites (I know that Firefly was literally her favorite pony) even though I love the Mane Six as they are.
According the commentary on the Season 1 DVD set, Hasbro wanted her to include Cheerilee in the main cast because she was a part of the Core 7 (same reason Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo are CMC). Faust managed to convince them to let her be the school teacher on the CMC side of things.
While I understand that business is business (and I'm sure Lauren does too), I think she really started to feel messed around at times. Not only did she have less control of he creative vision than she'd like, which would be disheartening for any writer, but there were other things as well, such as Hasbro's reluctance to given them a writer's room (they got one, but it wasn't really their room for the most part, or something) and the Trixie/Pipsqueak hypocrisy, which is what made her decide to leave, I think. It sounds like a small reason, but I think it was the final straw at the end of the day.That explains why there were so much serious focus on Cheerilee in Season 1.such a shame that marketing overpowers creative vision. I can understand why Faust up and left, if Hasbro had more reign than she did. I know it's their IP and all, but as an artist, myself, I can imagine how sucky not being able to go where you want with ideas and characters and direction can be.
Basically, when she showed her concept, they told her she had to use the ponies they were planning on using, but could give them whatever personality and story she wanted. They also let her use the original designs for Applejack and Spike.Ah, that makes more sense. I would have been really surprised if I had been wrong about Lauren planning to use those G1 ponies originally, thanks for confirming. To this day, I still sympathise with Lauren for not being able to use, what I am sure are her childhood favorites (I know that Firefly was literally her favorite pony) even though I love the Mane Six as they are.
According the commentary on the Season 1 DVD set, Hasbro wanted her to include Cheerilee in the main cast because she was a part of the Core 7 (same reason Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo are CMC). Faust managed to convince them to let her be the school teacher on the CMC side of things.
Thanks for explaining Cheerilee, it makes more sense now. It's actually not surprising that Hasbro wanted her to be used more, because of the Core Seven thing (I know that Apple Bloom was supposed to be part of a solo storyline for her cutie mark, originally).
While I understand that business is business (and I'm sure Lauren does too), I think she really started to feel messed around at times. Not only did she have less control of he creative vision than she'd like, which would be disheartening for any writer, but there were other things as well, such as Hasbro's reluctance to given them a writer's room (they got one, but it wasn't really their room for the most part, or something) and the Trixie/Pipsqueak hypocrisy, which is what made her decide to leave, I think. It sounds like a small reason, but I think it was the final straw at the end of the day.That explains why there were so much serious focus on Cheerilee in Season 1.such a shame that marketing overpowers creative vision. I can understand why Faust up and left, if Hasbro had more reign than she did. I know it's their IP and all, but as an artist, myself, I can imagine how sucky not being able to go where you want with ideas and characters and direction can be.
For those who don't know, Trixie was going to be a stallion, but Hasbro told Lauren's team to make her a mare (most likely due to the target audience), but then when "Luna Eclipse" was done/almost done they insisted that Lauren's team added Pipsqueak - a colt character, despite being adamant that too many male characters weren't needed. This may sound like Lauren throwing her toys out of her pram to an outsider, but I can understand why this was a problem; the episode had been mostly completed if not fully completed, and now suddenly there's a new character that has to be part of the episode, so this means that they have to go back and rewrite the episode, because now there's suddenly a new character interacting with the others.
I'm not sure I would see it as hypocrisy. They must have wanted Trixie to be a mare because then they could make her into a brushie while Pipsqueek is just there to be a "cute littled brother type" and not made into a brushie.It's possible. Like I say, I think it was just the final straw, and I don't think either Lauren or Hasbro are really in the wrong, I think it may have just been poor comunications or something. I'll have to check how that article/review/whatever it was was written to be sure.
Half of Lauren's problem was she burned more bridges than she built with Hasbro. She didn't have much control because the media side has never had much control in this situation. Hasbro is a toy company first and the toy side will always win a dispute. Other creative teams have built alliances with people on the toy side to gain more creative control. If you have someone willing to go to bat in the boardroom for your idea or wish to not execute an idea given to you, the company is more willing to listen than if you complain about them impinging on your creative vision for a brand they're paying you to work on.
Contrary to popular belief, she is not some pony goddess who blessed Hasbro with her presence.To be honest, I don't really feel that that is popular belief. Even those who feel that the My Little Pony cartoons were bad until Lauren "saved" them don't seem to praise Lauren that much. While I do realise, deep down that I am not the only brony who respects Lauren (though there are times when I allow myself to feel like I am), I still have yet to see anyone actually legitimately treating her like a goddess outside a figure of speech (calling a show creator the god/goddess of the show is standard practice amongst fans) or using her alicorn ponysona in a goddess type role (which is more likely a metaphor for how she created the show), and I do feel she is somewhat undervalued at times, or at least was in that bronies tended to assume that if it wasn't literally her episode, then she can't have had any part in its creation, when as show creator/showrunner she would have at the very least had a say in how things were written.
As to making Pipsqueak male or female I have a hard time seeing how that would have made any sort of difference...
clearly there is some sort of gender issue going on at mlp as there are no males at all in G3 and very few otherwise and FiM is very short on males but not so short that it's nonsensicalI don't think there's really a gender issue, it's just the belief that seems to be held that a show can only be for a particular sex if it only has or mostly has characters of that sex. This doesn't have to be particularly true, because at the end of the day it's how we relate to the characters, though I will admit that when I was first getting into girly shows (that I knew were girly) it helped to have a boy character to sort of ease me in, but I don't think I'd ultimately need one now. I think that My Little Pony could still be a girl's show if there were a decent ammount of male characters in the main cast, but I'm not saying there has to be. My Little Pony Tales came the closest to having a decent ammount of male characters in its main cast, and still worked as a girl's show the same as a boy's show could have a decent ammount of girls in the main cast, and still work as a boys show. So ultimately I agree that they don't need make it inbalanced in order to make sure it looks like it's aimed at the target audience, but at the same time I kind of get why they do, because not everyone is like me, and even I wasn't like me back then (meaning I would have originally needed at least one boy in the show at times, and that included characters that I thought were boys at the time if that happened in this scenario).
Nonetheless, I don't see how it is particularly at issue in whether people are losing interest now or not....that stuff is many seasons in the past and anyone who would have been lost by those issues are for the most part probably long gone, not just losing interest now. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just that I'm confused.
QuoteAs to making Pipsqueak male or female I have a hard time seeing how that would have made any sort of difference...
I should have been more clear, it's not that Pipsqueak started out as a filly and was rewritten as a colt, it's that he didn't even exist originally - Lauren and her team were asked to write him into a script that (as far as I know) was at least almost done if not actually done. Having thought of it, I wouldn't be surprised if I were to find out that Pipsqueak's scenes and dialogue were originally planned for the Cutie Mark Crusaders (most likely a different Crusader in different scenes), because if you think about it, the CMCs role in "Luna Eclipsed" is pretty minimal, so much so that you could replace them with three random foals and the episode wouldn't have a very noticeable change at all.
At the end of the day, the episode still ended up working (though to me it was awkwardly placed and would have worked better as a season one episode), so no real harm was done, it's just annoying at the least to think you've finished with a script and then be told (possibly at the last second) to not only add in a new character, but also give them a major-ish role. In fact, I am now even more convinced that Pipsqueaks lines and scenes were originally shared by the CMC, it was probably the easiest way to to include him (i.e. to give him scenes and lines that already existed).
Considering my post history, looks like g4 and what happened to the forum after is what made me quit collecting five years ago.
Not to sound petty, but bronies started it. I for one was initially happy that the new show had gained such a following. Then I started to see the face of this following and immediately drew back. When G1 videos were plentiful on Youtube, their comment sections were flooded by bronies bashing G1 and those who liked it (and G3 got it even worse). I've discussed the opening to the brony documentary to death so don't get me started on that. They act like they're their own thing with almost connection to the greater My Little Pony fan community which has existed longer than many of them have been alive.
Yet, long time fans have to contend with their stench. Despite not joining the larger community, they've become the face of it. To much of the outside public, brony is a term for any fan of MLP and their less than stellar reputation has been attached to all of us. It's especially bad for males like myself who grew up a fan of G1 and want nothing to do with these people.
Getting all of the bad and none of the good tends to sour your view on something.
At first I, too, was really happy to see so many new pony peeps, but IMO it quickly went out of hand with explicit fanfics, fanart etc.I agree that this is a HUGE problem in the brony community, it's really rare that artwork that isn't in a perfect show style or overly cutesy anime style is recieved well by the fans. I think that was a big turning point for me personally, I remember a few years back when I was trying to learn to draw in the G4 style some picture I drew ended up on some mlp imageboard (without my permission). Initially I was touched it was there at all but then I saw the only two comments it had were really negative with no valid critique or anything. I was really proud of it at the time so it really hurt to see it get shut down like that. That had never been my experience sharing mlp art in the past.
(and this is a pet peeve of mine. Really, no offense to anyone who does (non-explicit or not) fanart like this but when everyone's art looks spot on like in the shows, looks basically traced...? I never got the thing. Again, no offense, but that put me off going on devArt, and making my own pony art to post in the groups there. I remember one picture I drew, with the mane 6, and I got such amounts of critique because they 'didnt look like in the show'. like, I KNOW? I deliberately drew them in my own style, because... STYLE? )
Yet, long time fans have to contend with their stench. Despite not joining the larger community, they've become the face of it. To much of the outside public, brony is a term for any fan of MLP and their less than stellar reputation has been attached to all of usThis is really the main reason I've kind of distanced myself from mlp. I still enjoy collecting but I'm just not as open with people about it as I used to be. Before FiM people used to be pretty cool with my collection. Sure maybe they thought it was a little weird but overall people thought it was unique and they were supportive. Now if I tell people I like mlp I definitely get looks from a fair amount people. I've gotten asked about the really seedy parts of the fandom and if I'm into it. I hate that lewd mlp content is so commonplace now that people who aren't even into mlp have been forced to see it. I can't even search the mlp tag on tumblr without turning on safe search theses days, every other picture is something I don't want to see!
I have to agree with a lot of what's being said above. I'm actually not too tired of the toy line itself, I'm excited about the new reboot molds and the GoH line. I think I've actually been buying more of the toys than I have in a long time.
But I'm really growing tired of the cartoon and brony culture. This is coming from someone who was 100% behind bronies and the new fans from the start. I wasn't super active on here when bronies first started showing up, but I know the few times I would come see what was going on it was really tense and hostile and I just gave up all together for a few years and stuck mostly to mlp news sites and ignored any discussion.
Not to sound petty, but bronies started it. I for one was initially happy that the new show had gained such a following. Then I started to see the face of this following and immediately drew back. When G1 videos were plentiful on Youtube, their comment sections were flooded by bronies bashing G1 and those who liked it (and G3 got it even worse). I've discussed the opening to the brony documentary to death so don't get me started on that. They act like they're their own thing with almost connection to the greater My Little Pony fan community which has existed longer than many of them have been alive.
Yet, long time fans have to contend with their stench. Despite not joining the larger community, they've become the face of it. To much of the outside public, brony is a term for any fan of MLP and their less than stellar reputation has been attached to all of us. It's especially bad for males like myself who grew up a fan of G1 and want nothing to do with these people.
Getting all of the bad and none of the good tends to sour your view on something.
So, when bronies first hatched I had no problem with boys or men coming out and having their new category for my little pony lovers.
So, when bronies first hatched I had no problem with boys or men coming out and having their new category for my little pony lovers.
To add onto the shade pile, the fact that many bronies acted like they were the first boys ever to enjoy ponies. Sorry, no you're not. Lots of boys played with ponies growing up, and while a minority, they've always been present in the collector community too. Ponies are for everyone who likes ponies.
*sigh* The situation with G4 just makes me so sad. Even without the poor QC and other toy issues, the whole G4 line feels tainted with bad feelings in my mind.
Well, once the mods get a good look at this thread the word "plot" might get added to the Grumpy Cat list and we'll have trouble discussing the concept of a storyline by that word.
Well, once the mods get a good look at this thread the word "plot" might get added to the Grumpy Cat list and we'll have trouble discussing the concept of a storyline by that word.
So where did something stupid like this come from? Memes of course. "I watch ponies for the plot" (the image seen a few posts up). It's meant to be a play on "I read (insert adult magazine of your choice here) for the articles." But I don't hear people referring to Pamela Anderson or Jenny McCarthy as "articles"... "Check out the article on that hottie!" It sounds really stupid, doesn't it?I know I said I wouldn't bring it up, but that opening to the brony documentary makes a plot meme reference. When John DeLancie says G1's plots were not to weighty (off a script written by Amy Keating Rogers), they should a back shot of several G1 toys. Yes, one of the show's most prominent recurring voice talents spoke it and one of its most prominent writers wrote it.
It's a pet peeve of mine when reading it in fanfiction (especially if one of the ponies refers to it as such, for example "Ouch, I tripped and fell on my plot!"). Because so few people do any sort of research, I think a large number of bronies really believe plot is a horse anatomy term. Because, you know, everyone else uses it. *facepalm*
It's a pet peeve of mine when reading it in fanfiction (especially if one of the ponies refers to it as such, for example "Ouch, I tripped and fell on my plot!").
It's the feeling of male gaze that bothers me, not butts themselves.
I left for a few days and come back and this thread's discussion has gotten so interesting.I was just about to say that too.
Just my humble opinion but I don't get the G4 fans fixation with 'show accuracy'. And the new ponies are ugly to me. They have rubber hose limbs and real horses, even fantasy inspired ones, simply don't look as comically ridiculous as these new toys do. I'll keep my G4 collection as it's sizable and cute but the new toys are just horrendous to me.
I left for a few days and come back and this thread's discussion has gotten so interesting.I was just about to say that too.
Just my humble opinion but I don't get the G4 fans fixation with 'show accuracy'. And the new ponies are ugly to me. They have rubber hose limbs and real horses, even fantasy inspired ones, simply don't look as comically ridiculous as these new toys do. I'll keep my G4 collection as it's sizable and cute but the new toys are just horrendous to me.
The issue is many of these people aren't fans of My Little Pony. They're really fans of themselves. They act like they are the greatest thing on the planet. Their art and fiction and community are God's gift to the world. We should be honored they grace us with their presence.
When the 2015 Fair announced the Shakeups and Andrea Libman, bronies on that site were quick to claim they had taken over the Fair in their campaign of total domination of the MLP fan community.
The issue is many of these people aren't fans of My Little Pony. They're really fans of themselves. They act like they are the greatest thing on the planet. Their art and fiction and community are God's gift to the world. We should be honored they grace us with their presence.
When the 2015 Fair announced the Shakeups and Andrea Libman, bronies on that site were quick to claim they had taken over the Fair in their campaign of total domination of the MLP fan community.
Doesn't stop folks from replying to my statement of "oh I collect My Little Pony" with "oh, you're a one of those 'bro-nies' then?' with a dubious look. So I just don't ... mention it anymore.
"can't fit into ponywear" --I love it. My poor ponies are forced to live out my dressup fantasies...
I don't like being called brony either, before I even knew anything bad about them.
I don't have to be a brony to like pony rumps, I mean ponies.
The big difference between the G1/G2 'controversy' and the G1/2/3 vs G4 split is a matter of scope.
Media hubs pick up on what is trending, but in the 1990s, it would have taken a considerable amount of effort for the material to have become so widespread. Now it takes nothing at all. That is the actual difference. It isn't scope. It's era.
Media hubs pick up on what is trending, but in the 1990s, it would have taken a considerable amount of effort for the material to have become so widespread. Now it takes nothing at all. That is the actual difference. It isn't scope. It's era.
I am relatively certain it /is/ a matter of scope - a tiny niche collector community being at odds with itself over a new version of some toy would not have merited mass media attention then or now - not sensational enough. Yes it might have gotten some tmblr posts, but having news articles on the television would not have happened as it has with G4 nor would it have reached the general public's knowledge.
I have been a pony fan since I got my first Cotton Candy in the early 80's. I remember life before internet. I remember internet before it had pictures or web domains, web-rings, search engines, and relying on descriptions to make trades. I remember struggling to get RealPlayer to work so I could listen to the newest audio clip on Dream Valley, and building my own pages in GeoCities. I got My Little Pony Monthly by e-mail. So trust me when I say, I remember. It's actually what made me leave for a very long time.
Whether we see bronies as part of our community or not, the point I was trying to make is that the general public doesn't differentiate. The saying goes you only get one chance at a first impression, and like it or not G4-bronydom has become the first impression of us as a whole for many people outside our tiny corner of the 'net.
Your experiences and mine are pretty similar, in a nutshell. We don't actually disagree on the overall issue - where we differ is how we see the manifestation of the brony madness. I see it as the advance of technology and the web generation and you see it as a more widespread phenomenon because of it's publicity, but the two are interrelated.Media hubs pick up on what is trending, but in the 1990s, it would have taken a considerable amount of effort for the material to have become so widespread. Now it takes nothing at all. That is the actual difference. It isn't scope. It's era.
I am relatively certain it /is/ a matter of scope - a tiny niche collector community being at odds with itself over a new version of some toy would not have merited mass media attention then or now - not sensational enough. Yes it might have gotten some tmblr posts, but having news articles on the television would not have happened as it has with G4 nor would it have reached the general public's knowledge.
I have been a pony fan since I got my first Cotton Candy in the early 80's. I remember life before internet. I remember internet before it had pictures or web domains, web-rings, search engines, and relying on descriptions to make trades. I remember struggling to get RealPlayer to work so I could listen to the newest audio clip on Dream Valley, and building my own pages in GeoCities. I got My Little Pony Monthly by e-mail. So trust me when I say, I remember. It's actually what made me leave for a very long time.
Whether we see bronies as part of our community or not, the point I was trying to make is that the general public doesn't differentiate. The saying goes you only get one chance at a first impression, and like it or not G4-bronydom has become the first impression of us as a whole for many people outside our tiny corner of the 'net.
That's a good question and seems to have a bearing on how people feel about G4 or being proud of loving ponies.
One possible answer I think is that before G4, MLP wasn't really recognized by the mainstream so much and G4 really became well known. The mainstream has a limited attention span so one aspect is assumed to represent the entirety of a subject. Therefore if you are a fan of MLP, you must be a brony.
Of course the mainstream has a good attention span for seedy things so whatever negative stuff they've heard must also apply to you.
For example, I always wear a pony T-shirt to church for the last year. My congregation is getting used to it, and some weeks ago I had a conversation where one brother said So you're a brony? He said that because that's all he knows about adult MLP fans. When I said no, I am into my little pony but I'm NOT a brony, he asked why. I said bronies mostly like only the current show, and I love all My Little Pony including all the older stuff, and that bronies have other passions that I don't necessarily know of, or ascribe to. It's like a club, and I have no interest in joining it.
I think if G1 adult pony lovers were more known before, then the distinction wouldn't be as hard to conceive of.
Also of course there are people out there (especially on Youtube comments and probably lots of other places I don't go to have experienced it so much) that are out to offend everyone they can, and knowing that not all adult pony fans are bronies, they call us that saying things like "adult MLP fans are bronies", and when you say no I'm not, they say Yes you are and enlightened conversation ensues.
Thanks, LaW.
A lot to think about here, as to viewing the present through the lens of the past. Negativity is harbored on both sides of a split, and does not foster unity...but over time the flame wars fade away, and those with love for ponies remain. This will be true again.
Yay another Le Miz fan. I too like to pose ponies for pictures and when I did it in Yosemite, I have to admit I looked for opportunities with less bystanders but those who caught me in the act were supportive not displeased. Every pony needs to dream. Unity is the dream I dream.
Brony madness <-- how soon can this be a meme? When the Brony Madness fades, pony love will remain.
Life before Internet? Come on, you geezers are just making that up to scare children.
And no buttons, you had to put your finger in one of the holes and go all the way around the circle, over and over until it was dialed.
Uphill in the snow with no shoes, both ways.
Like it or not, the 'first impression' your average person in the first world has of a 'My Little Pony Fan/Collector' is not generally positive.
Yes, it's stereotypical. Yes, it doesn't represent all of us, not even a fraction. Doesn't stop folks from replying to my statement of "oh I collect My Little Pony" with "oh, you're a one of those 'bro-nies' then?' with a dubious look. So I just don't ... mention it anymore.
I do believe most of the brony community will evaporate shortly after the show ends. Though, Hasbro has already green lit a eighth season, so I think we're sadly in for a long haul with both an uninteresting generation and an insufferable fanbase.
I do believe most of the brony community will evaporate shortly after the show ends. Though, Hasbro has already green lit a eighth season, so I think we're sadly in for a long haul with both an uninteresting generation and an insufferable fanbase.
Sure, just like G1 people and original Star Trek people all disappeared after their shows ended.
Wasn't your last post about bronies that they worship themselves not pony? As long as you wish them gone, that's just perpetuating the rift.
While plenty here don't care for FiM, plenty more of us think it's not an "uninteresting generation". I just got started so I hope it goes on a few seasons more and if you don't like it, well, here's a pony for you: :sad: