The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: ponyqueen on October 17, 2014, 10:13:49 AM
-
I recently opened an Etsy store (www.etsy.com/shop/SkyGlory) with all of my My Little Pony watercolor paintings available for digital download, and a concerned seller said:
"I'd be very careful about using "My Little Pony" in your work here, unless you already have permission from them to use their name and copy their work!
I'd hate for your lovely work to get shut down."
I'm not sure what to say, because obviously there are thousands of talented artists out there (and here on the Arena) selling and profiting off the franchise, but we don't technically have any permission... so do we have a (legal) leg to stand on if Hasbro wanted to do something about it (which I'm sure they won't)?
Similarly, handmade sellers are also making custom works from Disney characters, and other major movie characters.
I guess I'm wondering... what should I do? Put a disclaimer in my listings that Hasbro owns the copyright to the franchise, and I own the copyright to the art I create?
-
I'd do nothing I guess. I wouldn't respond to that person who sounds snarky to me for some reason and I'd continue on.
Omggggg that Majesty and Spike one. So much want.
-
A disclaimer won't help you, but I wouldn't worry overmuch.
If someone reports you or they spot you, they will shut you down. Your work (much like the other artists works you mention) are derivative and do infringe on existing copyrights. Periodically someone on behalf of Hasbro's trademark will go through Etsy and sweep out a bunch of MLP plushie/custom/art makers. Other times, your competitors will rat on you to see you removed because they are mean.
Most people just open up again after the sweep. I wouldn't do anything until that time, and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.... except to not use copyrighted names and images in your work.
Its not that Hasbro is evil, but if they know about copyright infringement and do nothing about it, legally it could be said that they have knowingly waived infringements which they don't want. So they will keep doing it. (They have to).
-
Hasbro is more lenient when it comes to fanworks compared to other companies like Disney who doesn't want fanworks to be sold at all -- and cracks down harder on them. Hasbro allows all the fan art and plushies to be sold at the MLP fair, so that's something to consider. But they also have every right to protect their IP.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. :) And I was browsing your Etsy today, you have lovely work.
-
I think if you were ripping off their factory made plushes right down to the last bit of stuffing, or making your own blind bags and selling them, then they'd have a problem with it. But honestly, they've been really cool about a lot of things the fans have done - I mean, some of the the comics alone on Deviantart look like they came straight from the FiM show, and they haven't pulled them. I think the only thing they've really pulled has been the episodes on Youtube.
Disney is a whole 'nother bucket of bolts...don't cross their lawyers!
-
Holy smokes, those are gorgeous!
Is there a price difference for an actual print?
I'd love to hang some of your artwork in my pony room, but my printer isn't anything to write home about. lol
-
Until you get a 'cease and desist' letter direct from Hasbro, I wouldn't worry about it overly much.
-
A disclaimer won't help you, but I wouldn't worry overmuch.
If someone reports you or they spot you, they will shut you down. Your work (much like the other artists works you mention) are derivative and do infringe on existing copyrights. Periodically someone on behalf of Hasbro's trademark will go through Etsy and sweep out a bunch of MLP plushie/custom/art makers. Other times, your competitors will rat on you to see you removed because they are mean.
Most people just open up again after the sweep. I wouldn't do anything until that time, and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.... except to not use copyrighted names and images in your work.
Its not that Hasbro is evil, but if they know about copyright infringement and do nothing about it, legally it could be said that they have knowingly waived infringements which they don't want. So they will keep doing it. (They have to).
Listen to this woman.
-
Agreeing with above here. I've never had any trouble from Hasbro, but I had C&D's on my Fallout stuff, and more recently a minecraft item I was careless with as recognition software picked it up. (I now draw all the characters and don't use official art)
If someone comes along and goes 'Hey, be careful, I just got a C&D on my my little pony print, they might get you next' then maybe pay attention and hide your stuff for a week or so.
Also, does anyone know if they have a 3 strikes and then a shop ban policy? Because I'm on my third C&D now and I'm super paranoid.
-
A disclaimer won't help you, but I wouldn't worry overmuch.
If someone reports you or they spot you, they will shut you down. Your work (much like the other artists works you mention) are derivative and do infringe on existing copyrights. Periodically someone on behalf of Hasbro's trademark will go through Etsy and sweep out a bunch of MLP plushie/custom/art makers. Other times, your competitors will rat on you to see you removed because they are mean.
Most people just open up again after the sweep. I wouldn't do anything until that time, and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.... except to not use copyrighted names and images in your work.
Its not that Hasbro is evil, but if they know about copyright infringement and do nothing about it, legally it could be said that they have knowingly waived infringements which they don't want. So they will keep doing it. (They have to).
Listen to this woman.
Yep! She knows her stuff regarding this.
-
Thank you for posting this! I have always wondered about that. I have made MLP quilts and tote bags as gifts, but I have never sold them for fear of recrimination. Also, I admit that I have used line art directly from MLP coloring books. I would imagine that would be a bigger no-no than using fan art if I did decide to make some items for sale. Can anyone confirm that?
-
Thank you for posting this! I have always wondered about that. I have made MLP quilts and tote bags as gifts, but I have never sold them for fear of recrimination. Also, I admit that I have used line art directly from MLP coloring books. I would imagine that would be a bigger no-no than using fan art if I did decide to make some items for sale. Can anyone confirm that?
Since it's such a small scale I'm sure you would be fine. If not, nothing would happen, they'd just tell you to stop. For a while I vectored old lineart and put the designs on tshirts which I then sold, not much profit from it but I did several for several months, even had one of them on the front page of the website for a few days. Nothing came of it. Although I didn't tag it as my little pony I don't think, I forget. I think I purposely avoided that and just advertised here and on Tumblr.
-
Thanks all... yeah I wondered how unlawful it could be, but then I considered that Hasbro not only seems to condone a certain level of MLP custom creations, they seem to sanction and encourage it at the Hasbro My Little Pony National Convention. (!?) How could it be that different from selling on Etsy? (or on the Arena, or DA). So I think it's okay?
-
Maybe you were singled out because your art is a direct copy of Hasbro's art?
The Quackers in your sig for instance is straight out of the coloring books, and I believe Whizzer is from a backcard. I think that's why this person messaged you, because it's a direct copy of their existing art.
-
The odds are Hasbro has no idea if G1 fan art is copied from their official art or not. They may have some original G1 art stockpiled somewhere, but it's not something their current team is going to be familiar with. They aren't going to go flipping through old coloring books and backcards.
Might be different if you were copying their current G1-ish merchandising art (the stuff that isn't really vintage even though it features vintage ponies).
Similarly, I would guess the ponies most likely to "draw attention" are the ones they are using on their G1 retro merchandise. Gusty, Sundance, Birthflower pony Rose, Powder, Starshine, Firefly, etc.
-
A disclaimer won't help you, but I wouldn't worry overmuch.
If someone reports you or they spot you, they will shut you down. Your work (much like the other artists works you mention) are derivative and do infringe on existing copyrights. Periodically someone on behalf of Hasbro's trademark will go through Etsy and sweep out a bunch of MLP plushie/custom/art makers. Other times, your competitors will rat on you to see you removed because they are mean.
Most people just open up again after the sweep. I wouldn't do anything until that time, and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.... except to not use copyrighted names and images in your work.
Its not that Hasbro is evil, but if they know about copyright infringement and do nothing about it, legally it could be said that they have knowingly waived infringements which they don't want. So they will keep doing it. (They have to).
Listen to this woman.
Yep! She knows her stuff regarding this.
what these ladies said ^^ - and the other good advice here. I wouldn't worry at this point :hug: Hasbro are usually more concerned when it comes to episodes being posted, current stuff being copied exactly, new releases being posted before they release it etc but they do check every now and then from what I've heard and unless you're one of those Chinese factory sellers who seem to be able to get away with it then they could shut you down eventually
-
Still confused! :freak:
If the work is derivative, then it shouldn't infringe on copyright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
Also, don't people at the official Hasbro My Little Pony National Fair sell custom mlp arts and crafts??
-
I think Hasbro doesn't seem concerned about the Fair attendees selling arts and crafts more because Hasbro doesn't want to cause a stink in front of all those potential customers than because they're ok with the practice. Plus, I don't think the Hasbro panel members are part of their legal team and probably aren't looking for copyright violations.
-
Still confused! :freak:
If the work is derivative, then it shouldn't infringe on copyright? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
Also, don't people at the official Hasbro My Little Pony National Fair sell custom mlp arts and crafts??
From Wikipedia:
"In the subsequent Durham case, the court applied the same principle in a suit between two different Disney toy licensees in which one licensee claimed that the other had pirated his Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Pluto. Durham conceded that in making these toys it used Tomy's Disney figures as models."
I can see the Hasbro legal team taking this to mean that just re-hairing and painting and changing the colors of a MLP WOULD be copyright infringement - but if you took the pony as a base, re-sculpted large amounts of it, put it on a base and did something totally different than "displayable horse toy with brushable hair", that would be okay. I imagine they don't shut down the majority of artists/customizers because it costs a lot of money to individually prosecute each artist. A C&D letter usually scares them to stop producing. They are more easily able to go after artists creating already-licensed products because the licensees can also prosecute - if all the plushie licensees got together, they could probably start a powerful lawsuit against a lot of plushie artists! But shutting down "Bob" or "Jenny" because they create differently colored ponies than Hasbro's designs? They have bigger fish to fry!
Still, be aware of your rights, their rights, and the law. Make sure you copyright anything that is significantly different or unique - that might save you if you ever had to argue a case of derivative work. A number of people have already contributed great advice. :)
-
They'd never go after people at Fairs, because they are not regular sellers and your average Hasbro artist/writer/panel person isn't going to care about copyright infringements. Hasbro is certainly not going to have their lawyers attend the fairs ;)
Anyway I can tell you what they are are looking for is regular infringements. (That's what our firm looks for on behalf of the few clients we do that kind of work for). If it is brought to the attention of the Company (meaning legal team or actual corporate reps- not random artist employee) that there is an infringement (such as an etsy shop selling plushies of MLP or whathaveyou), even if it seems like small potatoes to you, they have to ask Etsy to close the listing or will ask you to remove your listings.
They aren't doing it because they are worried that you will cut into their market share, and it has nothing to do with money. They HAVE to do it because US law says that if you KNOW about a copywright infringement and allow it to happen, than you may have waived the right to object down the road (say when someone bigger comes along).
Again- this isn't something anyone need stress out about, they aren't going to sue you for damages or get an actual injunction (unless you are operating a factory or something). The WORST that could conceivably happen with small-potatoes art infringements/etsy/deviant art type stuff, is that the place that is hosting your listing will be asked to shut it down, or they might send you a letter requesting you to remove the listing. A "cease and desist" letter sounds fancy, but it is just a letter asking you to stop. Nothing scary at all. Really.
-
*nods* I've had some Hello Kitty items on etsy that the etsy team deactivated by request of Sanrio. Nothing scary happened. They just said "Hey seller, we took these listings down 'cause Sanrio asked us to. Please don't relist them. kthks."
It's often pretty random and arbitrary ('cause ya know... search for Hello Kitty on Etsy, they're certainly not taking down every listing. And the same is true for MLP - I know some artists have had listings taken down but the internet is still full of MLP art customs and merch.) But the reason it's random is what Galactica describes - some items are specifically brought to the companies attention, so they have to say 'hey, stop that!' Many other things go unnoticed because either the company is not taking time actively looking or no one has pointed it out to them. Hasbro in general is pretty non-invasive about it.
-
Dear Sister,
I wouldn't pay it no mind.
just as the other quite wise people have stated and like we talked about last night. ;)
-
Time to get concerned. According to a friend (she's here too) Etsy has started pulling and deactivating items with MLP including fan art and customs. It hasn't happened to my shop (yet) but who's going to be next?!
-
Time to get concerned. According to a friend (she's here too) Etsy has started pulling and deactivating items with MLP including fan art and customs. It hasn't happened to my shop (yet) but who's going to be next?!
They've been doing it all along though- they will remove 200 listings, and 200 more will crop up. They might remove your listing, but unless they are telling you that if you post them again they will remove your membership, I wouldn't worry overly much. Just put them back up when they get deleted.