That was a fascinating video. It brings up a lot of good points.finding those places takes skill but I'm glad that safe spaces do exist
Not saying it's okay, because it certainly isn't, but I think most of us get bullied at some point on the internet. Same with in school when we were younger. But just like the media portrayal of stereotypes is getting better, awareness of how bullying can cause long term harm (and in many cases, self harm) is growing in schools. Unfortunately, parts of the internet are still very toxic and probably will be for a long time. On the other hand, safe and accepting places will continue to exist as well :)
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a girly girl. There is an argument for the idea that being ultra-feminine is demonised, on the other hand it does depend a bit on the culture you're looking at, plenty of other women are demonised for being themselves as well. It's more a case of being targeted for being different or standing out in some way.She ran into the "male brain" theorists and they basically told her that she would turn evil if she continued to be feminine. Her brain continued to associate feminine=evil long after. She's been healing but she still has her moments of meltdowns.
The internet is getting progressively more polarised and more full of hate. I don't know if this is because people have got more hateful or just that the people who are unpleasant about differences in real life have learned how to use the internet and have now sucked all the joy out of the safe spaces there used to be.
You mentioned autism, and I am not sure how this feeds into the whole discussion, genuinely. As an autistic person myself, I have to wonder to what extent her experiences relate to people's generalised ableism around autistic people/expectations on what an autistic person is/should be/how they should act. Stereotypes around autism are often more male-dominated and I guess maybe people don't stop and think that someone with autism might be really girly and feminine, because of those stereotypes.
It is harder to be a girl with autism, generally, because most of the assumptions are so based on male experiences.
But then we're also often targeted for online bullying ("it's just a joke, stop overreacting :rolleyes:") and that can be pretty damaging for any autistic person, seeing how much more susceptible we are to negative energy than the average troll on the street.
That's horrible. I can see how that would have damaged her deep down inside, especially given how difficult it is for autistic people to build a sense of their own self and how susceptible they are to external suggestion and input. I'm really glad she's got a supportive friend like you to help her deal with that and that she's healing.I've been taking screenshots of the positive messages on here. (leaving you guys anonymous obviously)
I'm not surprised that it seems to stem from the stereotypes and garbage that gets churned out about autism in general. Even, sometimes, by people on the spectrum, because they've been bombarded with so much misinformation.
*hugs* to your friend.
It's absolutely okay to be a girly autistic girl.
Beth's right, there is a bigger issue here. Like it's okay for guys to spend hours gaming, but if a girl invests the same time in something frivolous she's considered immature/childish/somehow broken. And if women choose not to have kids, they get ostracised, but if they choose to give up work and stay home and look after kids, they get a lack of support and assumption that it's just easy and not really a 'job' - even though it is. Neither one of those decisions are wrong, they're both personal choices based on circumstances, but society likes to weigh in on them anyway.this fear of being yourself anywhere is something I never really understood, and still don't.
But women are people, not stereotypes. We don't necessarily fit a mould.
I mean, I collect my little ponies. I also have a PhD in mediaeval Japanese history, with a lot of emphasis on warriors, battles and that stuff. There's no way of defining what kind of person someone is by assuming stereotypes.
There can be pressure to conform to certain stereotypes, and a backlash can come from that. Even in my academic field there's like a lowkey expectation that as a woman I'd be interested in certain female characters and be writing about that side of the narrative. But that's not me.
Defining someone else by a narrow set of views is always wrong. I'm really not a girly girl but I like my fair share of pink things. My whole bedroom is pink, white and purple as it happens.
What Marshie said is also really important. People judge things that make them insecure. The problem is in the bully, not in your friend. This is a bigger problem across lots of stereotypes, but they're mostly built out of ignorance. People feel threatened by something that isn't the same as them. This is actually a natural instinct that human beings developed at evolution to protect against predators (according to my psychologist trained former mentor).
...Autistic people apparently mostly don't have that instinct, it's why we have more issues spotting dangerous social interactions, can sometimes react to a situation in an unexpected way, and are more likely to get hurt by stumbling into something unprepared. We don't have that internal warning system other people have that something unknown might be a threat. But - and especially given modern society - it also means we're not caught up as much on the assumptions and stereotypes laid down by other people. That ought to mean we're better at being individuals and at picking and choosing who we want to be based on our own instincts, rather than on the expectations of everyone else.
It's a double edged sword really, and navigating it can be tough without the warning signs.
But your friend is fine. And hey, it worked for Barbie for GENERATIONS. So yeah.
Cringe culture was mostly invented by people stuck in a high school mentality anyway. It takes a pretty big inferiority complex to want to target other people for having different hobbies or interests.well said :happy:
I mean, I don't understand why people collect stamps, or action figures, or cars. But all power to them. It's their life.
And if someone wants to dress like a rock star from the eighties and visit their local library (actually happened to me with a customer when I worked there), also, all power to them.
Life is short. It should be full of things that make you happy, not chains laid down by other people who are not.
Growing up, I was full of internalized misogyny, and I did my best to be "not like the other girls." Which is really lame, since I missed out on so much. As an adult, I LOVE any and all things girly! Being a girl is nothing to be ashamed of.internalized misogyny is why a lot of bullying happens I think. Glad you grew out of it in a healthy way
I agree with the above.I have a tendency to make connections more than boxes. I do like labels when it comes to identity and such but that's mostly because I have built myself out of different interests in my life rather than fitting myself into topics. ( I feel like that didn't make sense)
It also doesn't help because as autistic women we don't have those boxes in our head and don't really understand them.
I think Zapper's points are not wrong, but I also think the autism complicates the situation here because of the different relationship between gender identity and the spectrum in general.
This too ^^.Exactly, I'm gonna expand that to everyone should be able to make those calls. It's part of why I'm going to raise my future kids in a gender neutral way. Let them find there own gender and not force them to stick to one expression or the other.
I feel like a woman should be able to make those calls for herself. That's part of being treated as a whole and equal human being.
i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.
i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.
i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.
yeah it was scary to hear about. She still has some trauma responses :sad:I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.
i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.
I find it pretty disturbing that she was encouraged to like violent things. Some parts of the internet are pretty scary.
What makes this so horrible for me is that people on the spectrum generally are more sensitive to the behaviour and mood of other people than someone not on the spectrum. We do have problems sometimes reading that mood correctly, but hostile energy, we pick up on very easily. It's also much harder to create a sense of 'self', I forget what it's called but there's some research that has proven that autistic people struggle to identify themselves and thus are more likely to build on the opinions or expectations of people outside. And this can be really dangerous, especially if the people outside are trash.she's healed a lot and it helps that her boyfriend loves that she's a girly girl. Nowadays the only real thing that upsets her is drama. She'll have her moments of self doubt but it's much rarer.
It's really possible to create massive amounts of trauma in an autistic person from something that someone else might just laugh at and call a joke. Telling her that she would become evil for being 'girly' and had to change how she acted - given that people on the spectrum are constantly being told to change/act a certain way/conform/whatever...would have been traumatic.
Just makes me sad as a fellow autistic person that she had to go through that, and I really hope she's able to come through it and find confidence in being herself.
It would be really nice if people didn't put so much pressure on others to be something they aren't, basically. And gave them some time to figure out for themselves who they are...
One thing I loved about FIM is that each pony was feminine in her own way and never less than. Being a girl is fun and amazing. <3 Random online chats are usually very toxic.
I agree that females are often depicted as lacking in agency and two-dimensional in mainstream media storytelling. I think that has changed a lot recently but then I watch a lot of Netflix.netflix is a pretty popular option for media