The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: kingluke on May 06, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
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Hello,
I've been on this forum for a bit now but I keep seeing people talk about smooze,pindot and pony cancer (which I call pony disease, because where I'm from, rude and unsensitive people use cancer as a curse word/adjectif)
Could somebody tell me what these things are, and what to do about them?
Thank you in advance :)
see ya,
Luke
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Smooze and pindot are the same thing :) Since ponies are made of vinyl, they have pores, which dirt can get into. It's just ingrained dirt. It's a lengthy process to remove it. Basically, get some boiling or near boiling water, dip the affected area in for 30 seconds or more until the vinyl is nice and squishy, and scrape the vinyl with your fingernail. Repeat. You can also add soap when scraping if you want. This is a recent topic: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,391461.0.html
As for "pony cancer"... Yeah, using cancer can be insensitive and hurtful. Lots of people, including me, just use the term "age spots". There are different types: one is caused by fungus/mold, and the other is (you guessed it) from age.
Age spots caused by mold/fungus will usually have a dark spot in the middle with a ring around it. You can sometimes remove these with peroxide, but sometimes you can't because they have stained. If the mold spores or fungus is still alive, there might be a slight chance that it could spread, but if you use peroxide, it will most likely be fine.
The ones caused by age are from deterioration of the vinyl. Honestly, I'm not too sure about what happens, but if a pony develops them, it's likely they will develop more. Most in the community believe they are not contagious, but some say they are. A lot of the time the environment will cause the vinyl to deteriorate, and if you have your ponies in the same environment, it is likely age spots will develop on more than one pony if the conditions are right. This does not mean it's contagious, though. Some ponies are more prone to these than others, like Quackers and Nightlight to name a few. Some people say peroxide soaks work, but I haven't tried them myself. Other than that, there isn't much you can do.
If they have stained, the only option is to let them be there or paint over them. Some people cover them with ponywear. Others have tried to sand them off (sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.)
Basically, two things ponies can be affected with. Smooze is fixable while age spots rarely can be.
WARNING: Don't use acne cream for age spots. Or on any pony ever. It will bleach the vinyl after a while, causing discoloration. This discoloration can spread through the pony and to other ponies as well who you didn't even apply the cream to in the first place.
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Totally agree with phasing out the term pony cancer and replacing it with age spots, not only is the term hurtful but the connotations of cancer imply age spots to be a bigger problem then they actually are (in my view at least).
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I never liked 'pony cancer' - it's ill fitting and alarmist. 'age spots' or vinyl deterioration are far more appropriate. As to their causes, it's largely up in the air. One of the problems is that 'age spots' is a huge umbrella term for similar symptoms that likely have a myriad of causes. It's like pain; too general to be useful for a diagnosis. Most of the evidence is anecdotal and even the deliberate investigation has a hard time accounting for all the potential variables. Not every pony is made of the same vinyl recipe. Every one of them went through different experiences during their lifetimes.
What we do know is that a lot of age spots are likely environmentally triggered, and have something to do with the vinyl formulation itself. High humidity, temperature fluctuations can accelerate the breakdown of both plasticizer (leading to sticky, hard ponies) and the appearance of spots. Certain colours are FAR more susceptible to age spots - light blue & milky white ponies in particular often get it. There's no conclusive evidence that age spots are contagious, beyond 'the problem happens more often to ponies kept in similar storage conditions'.
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thank you all for your advise and help :)
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I think the advice about acne cream ought to be in big bold letters and not a spoiler personally. It's a really important thing to warn folk about :)
I dislike all of these terms. They're pony jargon. And I totally agree with eradicating the 'cancer' term. I don't know who came up with it but it's been around a while. I think it's time that the term vanished. But I would prefer we didn't use any terms (like "Smooze") that don't exactly describe the issue. Smooze in pony sense is purple slime. So unless your pony has purple slime that makes her grumpy, I suggest we stop using that term as well. Just because it doesn't make sense...;)
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I agree Taffeta. I think pindot is a better term than smooze. Who thought smooze was best to describe that anyway? You have to admit it is funny saying a pony has smooze though XD And when you remove it you know she isn't grumpy anymore! Lol!
In all seriousness though, we do need to stop using cancer. I remember hearing a story where a buyer asked a seller if a pony had cancer, and the seller got outraged because she had never heard the term and thought the buyer was asking if the pony had literal cancer. IIRC, the seller also had relatives die from cancer. Don't know if the seller sold the pony to that buyer or not though. But yeah, situations like this can be easily avoided. It's not okay to call vinyl deterioration on a plastic pony a thing that KILLS people :(
I should probably edit my post to have a bigger warning about acne cream. I know some people still use it and some of those people are on this board, and I thought they might get mad. That's why I put it in a tiny spoiler. But thinking it over, I'd rather boldly warn against a harmful "restoration" method, making sure people know and possibly anger some pony peeps than have ponies ruined by acne cream. Thanks :)
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Yeah, how did smooze come to be used as a synonym for pindot/age spots, anyway? I've never understood that one, it's vague and it doesn't really.. make sense, considering smooze in the movie had nothing to do with deteriorating plastic XD
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Yeah, how did smooze come to be used as a synonym for pindot/age spots, anyway? I've never understood that one, it's vague and it doesn't really.. make sense, considering smooze in the movie had nothing to do with deteriorating plastic XD
That's easy to answer! Back in the day pretty much anything that was near impossible to remove often fell under the term because it, like smooze from the movie, takes a lot of effort to get off your pony if at all. It was just an affectionate term people adopted much like bronies might call a ponies symbols cutie marks or might playfully say that an unwanted spot on their pony is cutiepox.
Over time those meanings become obscure or obsolete and newer more accurate words to describe the vinyl issues are adopted. The collectors who coined the term are older than their teens and early twenties now and we now have specific tried and true scientific explanations for what happens to our ponies, eradicating the 'mystery' behind what used to be a confusing issue.
Hope that helps <3
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I agree that these are terms that should fall out of use. Because while there are some people who do not mind them, particularly that controversial "Pony Cancer", there are others who are offended /saddened when they see the term.
And for me, 'Pin Dot' is more descriptive of what is occurring than 'Smooze'. Though I don't necessarily agree with 'Mold' following on behind.
So, what I am trying to say is that I agree with what is being said.
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Yeah, how did smooze come to be used as a synonym for pindot/age spots, anyway? I've never understood that one, it's vague and it doesn't really.. make sense, considering smooze in the movie had nothing to do with deteriorating plastic XD
That's easy to answer! Back in the day pretty much anything that was near impossible to remove often fell under the term because it, like smooze from the movie, takes a lot of effort to get off your pony if at all. It was just an affectionate term people adopted much like bronies might call a ponies symbols cutie marks or might playfully say that an unwanted spot on their pony is cutiepox.
Oooh, now that actually *does* make sense! I've always wondered about that :D Thanks for telling me!!
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Yeah, how did smooze come to be used as a synonym for pindot/age spots, anyway? I've never understood that one, it's vague and it doesn't really.. make sense, considering smooze in the movie had nothing to do with deteriorating plastic XD
That's easy to answer! Back in the day pretty much anything that was near impossible to remove often fell under the term because it, like smooze from the movie, takes a lot of effort to get off your pony if at all. It was just an affectionate term people adopted much like bronies might call a ponies symbols cutie marks or might playfully say that an unwanted spot on their pony is cutiepox.
Oooh, now that actually *does* make sense! I've always wondered about that :D Thanks for telling me!!
It's also why the term is now so confused and people use it for lots of different problems.
Still holding out for the day someone actually comes here with a genuine smoozed pony. Slime is popular at the moment, so I figure it's a possible reality to happen..
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I never liked 'pony cancer' - it's ill fitting and alarmist. 'age spots' or vinyl deterioration are far more appropriate. As to their causes, it's largely up in the air. One of the problems is that 'age spots' is a huge umbrella term for similar symptoms that likely have a myriad of causes. It's like pain; too general to be useful for a diagnosis. Most of the evidence is anecdotal and even the deliberate investigation has a hard time accounting for all the potential variables. Not every pony is made of the same vinyl recipe. Every one of them went through different experiences during their lifetimes.
What we do know is that a lot of age spots are likely environmentally triggered, and have something to do with the vinyl formulation itself. High humidity, temperature fluctuations can accelerate the breakdown of both plasticizer (leading to sticky, hard ponies) and the appearance of spots. Certain colours are FAR more susceptible to age spots - light blue & milky white ponies in particular often get it. There's no conclusive evidence that age spots are contagious, beyond 'the problem happens more often to ponies kept in similar storage conditions'.
This is such a good explanation!
I just use broad descriptions "brown spots in plastic that cannot be removed by general cleaning". I think everyone can understand that. I get confused by all the terms out there, because some seem to overlap, especially the whole "mold / cancer" terms.
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I just use broad descriptions "brown spots in plastic that cannot be removed by general cleaning". I think everyone can understand that. I get confused by all the terms out there, because some seem to overlap, especially the whole "mold / cancer" terms.
I do this too, for the same reasons. After 20 years of seeing people use the same terms differently, I no longer pretend to understand any of them (if I ever did) and so don't use them at all. I describe what I see. You can't go wrong with that...
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Yeah, how did smooze come to be used as a synonym for pindot/age spots, anyway? I've never understood that one, it's vague and it doesn't really.. make sense, considering smooze in the movie had nothing to do with deteriorating plastic XD
That's easy to answer! Back in the day pretty much anything that was near impossible to remove often fell under the term because it, like smooze from the movie, takes a lot of effort to get off your pony if at all. It was just an affectionate term people adopted much like bronies might call a ponies symbols cutie marks or might playfully say that an unwanted spot on their pony is cutiepox.
Oooh, now that actually *does* make sense! I've always wondered about that :D Thanks for telling me!!
It's also why the term is now so confused and people use it for lots of different problems.
Still holding out for the day someone actually comes here with a genuine smoozed pony. Slime is popular at the moment, so I figure it's a possible reality to happen..
I feel I find some nostalgia in the term and use it affectionately to my own G1's. I always thought the term was really cute and showed how much people loved their ponies and 'got into it'. It added a small little adult version of make believe in explaining away certain conditions so if you have a pony with some issues you can laugh and say, 'oh poor thing got hit with the smooze'. Not everything needs to make sense by technical reasons. Sometimes it's as simple as people just liking to use the term and as it hurts no one why worry.
In any case most collectors know not to use smooze as term when describing pony issues to sell in any case so its not a problem in my eyes. Pindot, plastic deterioration, vinyl leaching- people know what their talking about.
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I prefer to be specific about a flaw rather than use a blanket term such as "pony cancer" so it's pindot, age spots (the larger brown spots) or regrind :)
Love pkw xxx
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On the topic of acne cream/benzoyl peroxide... I have never used it on a pony unless said pony was white to begin with (and that was just one case). However, I HAVE used “Remove Zit” on non-pony dolls rather extensively: Strawberry Shortcake, Rainbow Brite, and other vintage dolls that were in severe need of some spot removal. It worked beautifully, but I’m concerned by the talk of the benzoyl peroxide treatments “leeching” or “spreading” to other dolls/ponies/toys.
Could someone please explain that to me? How does it happen? :wonder:
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On the topic of acne cream/benzoyl peroxide... I have never used it on a pony unless said pony was white to begin with (and that was just one case). However, I HAVE used “Remove Zit” on non-pony dolls rather extensively: Strawberry Shortcake, Rainbow Brite, and other vintage dolls that were in severe need of some spot removal. It worked beautifully, but I’m concerned by the talk of the benzoyl peroxide treatments “leeching” or “spreading” to other dolls/ponies/toys.
Could someone please explain that to me? How does it happen? :wonder:
if i remember right ,it continues to work on the one that it was applied to, so next thing you know that pony you've used it on as a rather large yellow splotch slowly growing and there's no fixing that damage. and it will just continue to leech the plastic and dye out of the toy. I know its an issue with soft vinyl toys like mlp specially colored ponies but it also affect white ponies as well.
the going on other toys just make sure the toy that was treated with the removezit/benzoyl peroxide stuff isn't touching another toy/clothing as it could effect them.
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On the topic of acne cream/benzoyl peroxide... I have never used it on a pony unless said pony was white to begin with (and that was just one case). However, I HAVE used “Remove Zit” on non-pony dolls rather extensively: Strawberry Shortcake, Rainbow Brite, and other vintage dolls that were in severe need of some spot removal. It worked beautifully, but I’m concerned by the talk of the benzoyl peroxide treatments “leeching” or “spreading” to other dolls/ponies/toys.
Could someone please explain that to me? How does it happen? :wonder:
if i remember right ,it continues to work on the one that it was applied to, so next thing you know that pony you've used it on as a rather large yellow splotch slowly growing and there's no fixing that damage. and it will just continue to leech the plastic and dye out of the toy. I know its an issue with soft vinyl toys like mlp specially colored ponies but it also affect white ponies as well.
the going on other toys just make sure the toy that was treated with the removezit/benzoyl peroxide stuff isn't touching another toy/clothing as it could effect them.
Good advice, thanks!
So is the softness of the vinyl a big factor? For instance, a G1 MLP is quite a bit softer than the head of one of the aforementioned SS or RB dolls. I haven’t noticed any problems in the dolls I’ve treated, and it’s been over a year now.
I’m always loathe to use harsher products to clean dolls or toys, but I had come into ownership of a bunch of 80s dolls that looked like they’d been used as mold farms. :facepalm:
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Why acne cream is so devastating on ponies remains undetermined, but I wouldn't use an unreliable metric like 'softness' to determine where it's safe or not. Long term damage can take weeks, months, even years to show itself fully. The consensus is acne creams are not safe for any ponies, ever. Even on white ponies they cause yellowing and discolouration eventually.
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Why acne cream is so devastating on ponies remains undetermined, but I wouldn't use an unreliable metric like 'softness' to determine where it's safe or not. Long term damage can take weeks, months, even years to show itself fully. The consensus is acne creams are not safe for any ponies, ever. Even on white ponies they cause yellowing and discolouration eventually.
Yikes! I’m glad I only ever used it on a pony that one time... She hasn’t shown any damage over the years, so maybe I lucked out. Either way, I won’t be doing that again.
I would be interested in understanding why benzoyl peroxide seems to work so well for some dolls, but is devastating to others... I’ll be doing plenty of research on every (non-MLP) doll I’m considering using it on in the future.
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I would be interested in understanding why benzoyl peroxide seems to work so well for some dolls, but is devastating to others...
I'm intrigued by this as well. I was reading a book about vintage doll restoration and it cheerfully recommended using benzoyl peroxide to clean dolls, which surprised me given that I had read so much about how bad it is for ponies. I wonder what makes dolls different? I think I will avoid using it at all just to be on the safe side!
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It may be that the dolls have some different element in the plastic relating to their colouring.
It is true this can take years to show up. My sister had what was a mint Daisy Dancer as far as we knew, but turned out that when she came down from storage a year or two ago, she had patches on her stomach which had clearly been acne creamed or something like it int he past. Naynie had her about 18 years ago, she went into storage fine about ten years ago, and came down 2 years ago like that. Fortunately for some reason she had got totally separated from other ponies so no risk of infection, but she now lives with a Care Bear on my sister's chair so that she can't infect anyone else. Fortunately for her as well, the damage is mostly on her stomach and covered by her hair. Also, Naynie isn't condition obsessed, so Daisy Dancer still has a home and is still loved. But because Naynie also numbers Mainsail among her precious childhood ponies in her room, Daisy Dancer is quarantined.
It doesn't just affect blue ponies but they seem to be the worst.
I would definitely keep any dolls that have been treated with this chemical away from ponies just in case. Also, recommending it probably comes from the fact that it isn't always clear which items will react badly to the stuff and how long it might take. People here also spent years recommending this as a mark removal method until the damage began to show some several years later.
I never use any chemicals on my ponies bar dilute soap and water, because I don't know what of the chemicals people are using now may also ultimately damage the plastic and cause breakdown. Unfortunately this is one of those trial and error things where the error is extremely costly.
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Scary stuff. :shocked:
In the case of the Strawberry Shortcakes I was working with... there weren’t many options. Mold spots had basically consumed half the dolls’ bodies in some cases. The Remove Zit fixed all of that, though I’ll now be keeping a close eye on the them... :/
I’m mostly wondering how the effect can spread from doll to doll, though? Physical contact? Mere proximity?
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I'd conjecture that it has something to do with the physical structure of pony vinyl vs. smoother plastics, like SSC doll bodies. We know pony vinyl takes to dyes and stains like a duck to water, and that it has micropores, as evidenced by the prevalence of pindot. Surface applications don't remain on the surface of ponies. They sink right in and make themselves at home, so even after you wipe off the acne cream, there's still some that's invaded the plastic and continues to work? It could also be a delayed chemical reaction, or a combination of both.
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Benzoyl peroxide (the active ingredient in the acne creams mentioned) is a chemical that acts like bleach, in that it chemically reacts with the pigments in pony plastic to remove the color. Because its structure is compatible with plastics, it is absorbed easily into pony plastic and can affect the coloring over time. The changes aren't apparent immediately, so I would be curious to know if it is genuinely safe for other types of plastics/toys, or if collectors/restorers in other areas have just not become aware of potential problems as soon as the pony community has. ETA: It is also possible that the effects of benzoyl peroxide are more noticeable in MLP, which uses a broader range of bright pigments than most dolls, which are often primarily skin-toned.
Has anyone else noticed that age spots tend to develop particularly (although not exclusively) around glitter symbols? To me this lends credence to the theory that they are just the plastic breaking down in many cases (rather than mold, although it is possible that some spots are due to mold). I wonder if something in the glitter or the glue is a chemical catalyst for a breakdown in the plastic structure, and/or or the formation of compounds that cause a brown stain.
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Has anyone else noticed that age spots tend to develop particularly (although not exclusively) around glitter symbols? To me this lends credence to the theory that they are just the plastic breaking down in many cases (rather than mold, although it is possible that some spots are due to mold). I wonder if something in the glitter or the glue is a chemical catalyst for a breakdown in the plastic structure, and/or or the formation of compounds that cause a brown stain.
I have definitely noticed this... Of the few ponies I own that exhibit spotting/discoloration, most have it on or near a glitter symbol. In a few cases, it even looks like the spots have “eaten away” the glitter/paint, creating a swiss cheese effect. >_<;
I usually paint over the spots with microglitter and Mod Podge, which works very well aesthetically. Now that you bring it up, though... I do wonder if the traces of metal in the original glitter could have been the cause of the discoloration in the first place (like “green ear” in vintage Barbie being caused by a reaction between her vinyl head and metal earrings).
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@Raindrop, when you said that, I immediately thought of Starshine who is a major candidate for this and for glitter issues. Sunlight as well. These are ponies with large areas of glitter on their symbols so you may well be right that it relates to the glue or glitter reacting with the plastic more quickly.
I think we're still always in such unknown territory. The ponies are going to continue to age as we go forward. We don't know yet what other changes may take place.
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"cancer" is definitely not even an accurate comparison, even leaving out how it's a bit insensitive (I personally don't care but I understand how it's off-putting to a lot of people)
this is still absolutely in poor taste but as far as the mold that can spread between ponies, "herpes" would be a better slang term.
I will see myself out now.