The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Tulips on March 25, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
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The title is a bit of a mouthful, but it sums up what I'm wondering.
I bought something on eBay and paid immediately, the seller then messaged me a day later saying the postage on the listing was wrong and I had to send them more money or they won't send my purchase. The extra postage they're asking for is double what I've paid, but it is still their responsibility as a seller to honor the sale because they entered the information wrong.
I've quoted them eBay policies and warned them that I will report them to eBay for their misconduct, but since I can't actually force them to post my purchase I was wondering if anyone could clue me into what eBay would actually do to them for the offence?
Is account suspension a possibility?
Or will eBay just give them a pathetic slap on the wrist?
As much as I would like what I bought, I'm stinking displeased about the entire ordeal - especially since the seller is ignoring me as if that will make the problem go away - I don't want to give in and pay the extra...
Is there any way I can win in this situation?
edit: And I guess if it all goes belly-up, is there anyone located in France who could help me out?
UPDATE: I received my purchase today, it was the correct item so the seller has actually honored the purchase, I'm pleasantly surprised. I think what may have happened was this: on the ebay listing it had the postage as "La Poste - Colis Economique International", but the package I received had "Priority" with tracking and signature on delivery. My suspicion is that the seller didn't realise their mistake in offering Economy and wanted to protect themselves with Priority, still not my fault. I'm glad this is over, but now I'm wondering what I should say in the feedback. It'll be neutral of course, because they did eventually honor the sale but it gave me such anxiety for several days... the lack of communication was unprofessional as well, but at least they weren't rude.
@ Taffeta - I'm glad to see you got your pony too. I'd actually seen your post and thought the same thing about the similar situations, just saw your update that it's finally resolved.
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It saddens me a lot to see that this issue is becoming frustratingly common based on the reports here...
I unfortunately don't have specific information on the consequences from the seller's perspective, but I'd also be interested to know more about this. I think such cases need to be reported. If they are really getting common, I'd love to see eBay do something against them, because IMHO sellers really shouldn't be able to just get away with such issues. Yes, it happens that you miscalculate, but the frequency recently is getting frustrating, and less and less sellers cave and just eat up the loss, which makes me think that sellers just don't care as much anymore, thinking "hey, I can just cancel". I mean, I know eBay would prefer a higher total paid because it also means more in fees, but (especially in cases like yours where the postage ends up double of what the original was) I think such cases rather end up with the buyer refusing to pay the extra and the seller cancelling. Or if the buyer pays the extra that isn't going through eBay's system, so they don't benefit from that either.
ETA: Reading back my post it sounds a little too anti-seller in general. That is not what I really meant. It is rather that these sellers should be a little more thorough when they list an item. It's also for their own sake.
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I would definitely call eBay and find out your options before proceeding. Your seller is probably going to get a mark against their account, the sale will be cancelled and you'll be able to leave them negative feedback. But I wouldn't count on anything more happening. I doubt their account will be suspended unless this happens often, but eBay will ask for you to forward any communication, so be sure to keep the messages.
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It depends on how badly you want the item from that seller, because if you do go ahead and report them then you're probably not going to be getting that item. It wouldn't hurt to check with ebay on how to go forward with this, but they might still take it into their own hands to cancel the transaction/deal with the seller themselves since their policies are being broken, rather than just tell you options on how to proceed. Also the seller will possibly cancel the transaction even if ebay doesn't. I'm thinking ebay wont make the seller ship the item for the cost you were originally quoted even though that's really what should happen.
Not saying that the seller should get away with asking you to pay more either though. They shouldnt! That isn't right :( . If the seller makes a mistake when they quote for shipping then that's their problem and they need to deal with it , not pass it on to the buyer. :awake:
Report the seller to ebay and ebay will check the correspondence - keep everything, so they can see the whole conversation. Ebay will do something since the seller went against the rules, but I doubt the seller will get kicked off unless this is something they regularly do. ..... and..wait... I'll stop there ...because I noticed I'm basically posting what bluerose already posted. Sorry! I did repetition for emphasis :blush: :yikes:
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Thanks for all the information and opinions everyone. I actually have an interesting update about this case. I've been stern but not rude in my messages to them, but they hadn't replied to any of them... Until tonight, when they marked my purchase as posted and simply messaged me a tracking number without a single other word.
So it's yet to be seen whether the package I receive will contain my purchase, if anything arrives at all, but it seems I managed to make them own up to their mistake. I am honestly shocked! I was on the verge of giving up, reporting them and opening a case for a refund... I'm glad I gave them the extra day to do some soul searching and do the right thing.
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If the postage is legitimately more then I don't see anything wrong with the seller cancelling the transaction. The buyer should NOT be required to pay more, and the seller shouldn't have asked that. But the seller shouldn't be required to sell at a loss just because they made a mistake either. This is especially the case when the postage isn't a dollar or so difference, but double what was listed.
It's great that they sent the item in the end. But just understand it was not something they were OBLIGATED to do. A seller can cancel a transaction for almost any reason. eBay is not going to suspend an account because a seller canceled a transaction, because that is fully within their rights to do. Just like it's your right not to have to pay extra postage.
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I agree that the seller should not have asked for more money. I was in an etsy situation recently where someone purchased an item from me and I had not added shipping to china. I had to cancel the sale because the shipping would have been twice what the item was worth.
I've only ever asked for more money to ship if it is someone I know well and they wont be offended.
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Thanks for the update :bigups: not what I was expecting, but good news all the same :) :happy: Please let us know when your parcel arrives and I hope it all works out well now :relaxed:
I do feel sorry for sellers when this happens of course - I've made the mistake as a seller myself and had to lose out on shipping costs a few times, especially when I was a newer seller. It just shouldn't be down to the buyer to pay if the seller messes up.
I think that rule doesn't strictly apply in all selling circumstances though for the record either - say if it's a transaction between friends, someone has picked something up for another member here as a favour/ if we're dealing with other members here.... then the extra costs are something that can be discussed, though not demanded.
another situation I can think of where I personally made an exception on ebay and did send the seller extra monies was because they weren't originally shipping to my country and I asked them if they'd be willing to. It turned out it cost quite a bit more than they had expected but since I had asked them to post internationally specifically for me , and the communication was good and they were totally up front but not demanding as regards the extra, I sent it as a good will gesture. Those are exceptions though ;)
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Honestly, I think it's up to the seller to do their homework when it comes to shipping prices BEFORE they sell an item. I know that's not always easy to do. But it's a lot easier now that we have the internet, and shipping scales are relatively cheap. Plus, if it's an item that has been sold before, you can look up what they used as a shipping weight as a guide. And it's instances like these that eBay pushes free shipping. That they would rather you increase the rate of the item and push free shipping so that you don't wind up in asking the buyer to pay out of pocket or that the seller feels that they are being hit too hard with shipping, since they already added the shipping price into the price of the item.
In any case, you just cannot ask a buyer for more money. If the seller feels they just cannot pay the double, then they need to ask the buyer if it's OK to cancel the sale and tell them the reason. If the buyer WANTS to add extra money to pay for shipping, then that's another story. But if eBay just allowed sellers to demand extra shipping every time, then every seller would be doing so to avoid those nasty fees.
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Until you said France, I wondered if maybe you were dealing with the same seller I've been dealing with these past 2 weeks. They made a similar demand of me.
Basically I have no idea right now what is happening with my item either, I have been told it's been sent by a courier with tracking and insurance but no tracking number has been given to me or provided by any courier. It annoys me because as a seller myself if I make an error on postage, it's my bad, not the buyer's. I pay the difference. But apparently that's no longer good enough. Holding items to ransom to demand extra postage is something that seems to happen more and more of late, even though it's against ebay rules.
It's also potentially defrauding ebay because the postage amount is utilised to calculate fees on ebay as well. So by adding extra after the auction, the seller is circumventing what they owe to ebay too.
I am waiting to see what happens with mine, and if the pony arrives, then fine. But I have had a lot of complaining from my seller as if it's somehow my fault they put the wrong shipping calculation in, then my fault that they want a tracking number, and my fault for being in a different country from them. None of this endears me to my seller.
I really hope your item gets to you safely now and you can mark the transaction as a closed deal. At least you have a tracking number, which is a start. I am glad you stood your ground.
While a seller can cancel an auction, I think there's a difference between a seller cancelling an auction because they realise there's an error in shipping and a seller demanding more money from a buyer with a threat to cancel if they don't pay it. I think that would still be against ebay rules, and ebay would be interested to know a seller was trying to obtain extra funds outside of the purchase because it circumnavigates paying the full fee on the transaction, which means they also lose money.
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I've noticed when I sell stuff on ebay- if I'm not careful- ebay puts an automatic weight in for me.... if I miss it, the weight could be wrong. (Usually too high but conceivably too low)
If I had been the seller and there was a mistake in the listing about the weight- I would have just cancelled the listing due to... "mistake in the listing." The seller IS allowed to do that-
The seller is not allowed to ask you for more $$.
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Update in first post, all resolved... but what feedback to leave?
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
I agree, give them positive because it DID all work out, but future buyers need to know they could possibly be asked for more shipping funds after they win an auction from this person.
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So happy your pony arrived as well!
It seems both our sellers expected us to pay extra for tracking but didn't bother to put it in the auction. But I'm happy it worked out for the both of us and neither of us ended up paying any extra :)
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
I agree, give them positive because it DID all work out, but future buyers need to know they could possibly be asked for more shipping funds after they win an auction from this person.
I figured a Neutral was fair? A positive with a warning will be easily overlooked where a neutral is more noticeable.
The seller has 100% positive feedback even with another neutral in the last 6-12months, I saw this perfect score and didn't even think to check what the feedback says... if I had I would have seen the one neutral, maybe translated it from french out of curiosity, and saved myself a headache.
What I do see is already docked star ratings, which mean nothing without explanation, and actually a negative that hasn't impacted their 100% (over a year old).
Maybe it's because I don't sell on eBay, and don't know first-hand how broken their feedback system is, but I don't believe that an unprofessional seller deserves a false positive feedback. Neutral feedback is there for a reason, is it not?
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
I agree, give them positive because it DID all work out, but future buyers need to know they could possibly be asked for more shipping funds after they win an auction from this person.
I figured a Neutral was fair? A positive with a warning will be easily overlooked where a neutral is more noticeable.
The seller has 100% positive feedback even with another neutral in the last 6-12months, I saw this perfect score and didn't even think to check what the feedback says... if I had I would have seen the one neutral, maybe translated it from french out of curiosity, and saved myself a headache.
What I do see is already docked star ratings, which mean nothing without explanation, and actually a negative that hasn't impacted their 100% (over a year old).
Maybe it's because I don't sell on eBay, and don't know first-hand how broken their feedback system is, but I don't believe that an unprofessional seller deserves a false positive feedback. Neutral feedback is there for a reason, is it not?
If you want to give a neutral feedback, it's really your experience.
I would also give positive and dock communication.
But from what you said...
items were as described
you got tracking
they were received on time (i am assuming?)
seller was unprofessional (i give forgiveness that a lot of ebay sellers are NOT professional, and there is probably a language barrier.)
seller was not rude <-- I think that's the important thing here
Basically they made a mistake, but they made it right. So that's why I'd give a positive.
Do you really not deal with people who have 1-2 neutral/negative feedbacks?
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
I agree, give them positive because it DID all work out, but future buyers need to know they could possibly be asked for more shipping funds after they win an auction from this person.
I figured a Neutral was fair? A positive with a warning will be easily overlooked where a neutral is more noticeable.
The seller has 100% positive feedback even with another neutral in the last 6-12months, I saw this perfect score and didn't even think to check what the feedback says... if I had I would have seen the one neutral, maybe translated it from french out of curiosity, and saved myself a headache.
What I do see is already docked star ratings, which mean nothing without explanation, and actually a negative that hasn't impacted their 100% (over a year old).
Maybe it's because I don't sell on eBay, and don't know first-hand how broken their feedback system is, but I don't believe that an unprofessional seller deserves a false positive feedback. Neutral feedback is there for a reason, is it not?
If you want to give a neutral feedback, it's really your experience.
I would also give positive and dock communication.
But from what you said...
items were as described
they were shipped on time
you got tracking
they were received on time
seller was unprofessional (i give forgiveness that a lot of ebay sellers are NOT professional, and there is probably a language barrier.)
seller was not rude <-- I think that's the important thing here
Basically they made a mistake, but they made it right. So that's why I'd give a positive.
Do you really not deal with people who have 1-2 neutral/negative feedbacks?
Personally I believe ignoring messages from your buyer is incredibly rude, when I said they weren't rude I meant they didn't called me a 'scummy waste of oxygen' (a seller has called me that in the past for being disappointed that they sent me a MOC pony in a bubble mailer and it arrived crushed)
Whether you're selling as a hobby or professionally I still expect a certain level of responsibility when money is changing hands. They also seemed to understand English perfectly fine.
I never said I don't purchase items from people will less than perfect feedback, but I've bought from plenty of people who do have perfect feedback who really shouldn't, and the neutrals I've left them haven't changed their 100%. (Not that I leave neutral/negative a lot, and I always contact a seller about issues first.)
I just think it's redundant to give sellers positive feedback when you would not recommend them. Imagine experiencing the worst seller in your life and then looking at their 100% feedback to find that the majority have negative warnings, an extreme example but what's the point of feedback if everyone just tiptoes around it?
Not going to argue about this, I do appreciate the opinions. I haven't made my decision yet.
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Honestly, since they honored it and sent it and everything turned out fine, I wouldn't leave neutral or negative, I would be inclined to leave positive feedback but dock them stars in the areas of communication and shipping and write in the feedback that the seller asked for extra shipping money AFTER the sale was made.
I agree, give them positive because it DID all work out, but future buyers need to know they could possibly be asked for more shipping funds after they win an auction from this person.
I figured a Neutral was fair? A positive with a warning will be easily overlooked where a neutral is more noticeable.
The seller has 100% positive feedback even with another neutral in the last 6-12months, I saw this perfect score and didn't even think to check what the feedback says... if I had I would have seen the one neutral, maybe translated it from french out of curiosity, and saved myself a headache.
What I do see is already docked star ratings, which mean nothing without explanation, and actually a negative that hasn't impacted their 100% (over a year old).
Maybe it's because I don't sell on eBay, and don't know first-hand how broken their feedback system is, but I don't believe that an unprofessional seller deserves a false positive feedback. Neutral feedback is there for a reason, is it not?
If you want to give a neutral feedback, it's really your experience.
I would also give positive and dock communication.
But from what you said...
items were as described
they were shipped on time
you got tracking
they were received on time
seller was unprofessional (i give forgiveness that a lot of ebay sellers are NOT professional, and there is probably a language barrier.)
seller was not rude <-- I think that's the important thing here
Basically they made a mistake, but they made it right. So that's why I'd give a positive.
Do you really not deal with people who have 1-2 neutral/negative feedbacks?
Personally I believe ignoring messages from your buyer is incredibly rude, when I said they weren't rude I meant they didn't called me a 'scummy waste of oxygen' (a seller has called me that in the past for being disappointed that they sent me a MOC pony in a bubble mailer and it arrived crushed)
Whether you're selling as a hobby or professionally I still expect a certain level of responsibility when money is changing hands. They also seemed to understand English perfectly fine.
I never said I don't purchase items from people will less than perfect feedback, but I've bought from plenty of people who do have perfect feedback who really shouldn't, and the neutrals I've left them haven't changed their 100%. (Not that I leave neutral/negative a lot, and I always contact a seller about issues first.)
I just think it's redundant to give sellers positive feedback when you would not recommend them. Imagine experiencing the worst seller in your life and then looking at their 100% feedback to find that the majority have negative warnings, an extreme example but what's the point of feedback if everyone just tiptoes around it?
Not going to argue about this, I do appreciate the opinions. I haven't made my decision yet.
Just because a neutral doesn't affect their feedback, it doesn't mean it doesn't affect them in other ways. EBay shows people's listings on eBay depending on their feedback. If there are only positive feedback, they ship quickly, they have high stars, then they show their listings in higher in people's searches and they will also have special coupons which will feature these sellers' items, as well as give other incentives.
So if you think negatives, neutrals and even low stars don't hurt, well, you'd be wrong. But, since you're NOT a seller on eBay, you don't understand. But I hope you think about this and make an informed decision.
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Personally I believe ignoring messages from your buyer is incredibly rude, when I said they weren't rude I meant they didn't called me a 'scummy waste of oxygen' (a seller has called me that in the past for being disappointed that they sent me a MOC pony in a bubble mailer and it arrived crushed)
You said in your update you didn't think they were rude. You obviously think otherwise. I'm not looking to argue.
I was just explaining why *I* would give a positive. I did say you were free to give a neutral-- we all feel different ways about the way we give feedback. I look at 1) if my item was delivered on time and 2) if it was as described (and if something went wrong-- if my seller corrected their mistake).
My comment asking if you don't buy from people from 1-2 neutral/negs was because you said you could of avoided a headache if you would of translated that 1 neutral they already had.
ETA: Stars are a part of feedback.