The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Off Topic => Topic started by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 09, 2021, 09:26:19 PM

Title: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 09, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
I have a friend who is much more higher needs Autistic than I am. She was bullied very hard in her younger years because she was "too girly" she just happened to wander into those unmoderated forum (Wrong Planet and such). Being friends with her has really changed how I view how media depicts girly-girls and feminine characters. I want to show her that more feminine people are good people and that there are more like her out there. I figured this topic is work discussing. 
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: BlackCurtains on October 09, 2021, 10:59:05 PM
Are feminine people supposed to be bad? :huh: I know the "dumb blonde" trope and men who present feminine being seen as weaklings but I didn't know it was seen as a bad thing by some. I don't consider myself feminine, but I have no problem with people expressing themselves that way.

I'm not up on pop culture much either and don't follow influencers or anything trendy, so I don't know how helpful I can be :P

But there are a lot of strong feminine role models out there :) Angelina Jolie comes to mind. She's tough and plays tough characters, but is always made up and beautiful.

A thing to remind your friend of is that "things" are not gender exclusive. Clothing, make-up, colors, toys - everything is appropriate for anyone who wishes to express themselves that way. The same for activities and interests. Take this forum as example :) There are all kinds of people here and we all like ponies.

Media is really bad at trying to stick people into boxes, I'm afraid. TV and Movies are probably the worst. Things are slowly changing though. More people are being accepted than ever before, even if it doesn't seem like it at times. There's nothing wrong with being a "girly-girl" and it doesn't define a personality. I don't know much about toxic femininity like I do masculinity. Before now, I never gave it much thought, but it must exist. I know women are very good about putting down other women, and that's a real shame. We should all support each other, unless there is something going on that is dangerous.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 10, 2021, 12:41:06 AM
link to a fascinating video under the spoiler
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
there are good role models starting to crop up, like pip!
my friend was on the internet at a time that was really toxic and it still effects her along with a bunch of other trauma that I am not gonna detail cus it's her business. 
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: BlackCurtains on October 10, 2021, 11:44:09 AM
That was a fascinating video. It brings up a lot of good points.

Not saying it's okay, because it certainly isn't, but I think most of us get bullied at some point on the internet. Same with in school when we were younger. But just like the media portrayal of stereotypes is getting better, awareness of how bullying can cause long term harm (and in many cases, self harm) is growing in schools. Unfortunately, parts of the internet are still very toxic and probably will be for a long time. On the other hand, safe and accepting places will continue to exist as well :)

Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 10, 2021, 06:14:32 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a girly girl. There is an argument for the idea that being ultra-feminine is demonised, on the other hand it does depend a bit on the culture you're looking at, plenty of other women are demonised for being themselves as well. It's more a case of being targeted for being different or standing out in some way.

The internet is getting progressively more polarised and more full of hate. I don't know if this is because people have got more hateful or just that the people who are unpleasant about differences in real life have learned how to use the internet and have now sucked all the joy out of the safe spaces there used to be.

You mentioned autism, and I am not sure how this feeds into the whole discussion, genuinely. As an autistic person myself, I have to wonder to what extent her experiences relate to people's generalised ableism around autistic people/expectations on what an autistic person is/should be/how they should act. Stereotypes around autism are often more male-dominated and I guess maybe people don't stop and think that someone with autism might be really girly and feminine, because of those stereotypes.

It is harder to be a girl with autism, generally, because most of the assumptions are so based on male experiences.

But then we're also often targeted for online bullying ("it's just a joke, stop overreacting :rolleyes:") and that can be pretty damaging for any autistic person, seeing how much more susceptible we are to negative energy than the average troll on the street.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 10, 2021, 08:46:47 PM
That was a fascinating video. It brings up a lot of good points.

Not saying it's okay, because it certainly isn't, but I think most of us get bullied at some point on the internet. Same with in school when we were younger. But just like the media portrayal of stereotypes is getting better, awareness of how bullying can cause long term harm (and in many cases, self harm) is growing in schools. Unfortunately, parts of the internet are still very toxic and probably will be for a long time. On the other hand, safe and accepting places will continue to exist as well :)
finding those places takes skill but I'm glad that safe spaces do exist
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a girly girl. There is an argument for the idea that being ultra-feminine is demonised, on the other hand it does depend a bit on the culture you're looking at, plenty of other women are demonised for being themselves as well. It's more a case of being targeted for being different or standing out in some way.

The internet is getting progressively more polarised and more full of hate. I don't know if this is because people have got more hateful or just that the people who are unpleasant about differences in real life have learned how to use the internet and have now sucked all the joy out of the safe spaces there used to be.

You mentioned autism, and I am not sure how this feeds into the whole discussion, genuinely. As an autistic person myself, I have to wonder to what extent her experiences relate to people's generalised ableism around autistic people/expectations on what an autistic person is/should be/how they should act. Stereotypes around autism are often more male-dominated and I guess maybe people don't stop and think that someone with autism might be really girly and feminine, because of those stereotypes.

It is harder to be a girl with autism, generally, because most of the assumptions are so based on male experiences.

But then we're also often targeted for online bullying ("it's just a joke, stop overreacting :rolleyes:") and that can be pretty damaging for any autistic person, seeing how much more susceptible we are to negative energy than the average troll on the street.

She ran into the "male brain" theorists and they basically told her that she would turn evil if she continued to be feminine. Her brain continued to associate feminine=evil  long after. She's been healing but she still has her moments of meltdowns. 
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 10, 2021, 09:49:36 PM
That's horrible. I can see how that would have damaged her deep down inside, especially given how difficult it is for autistic people to build a sense of their own self and how susceptible they are to external suggestion and input. I'm really glad she's got a supportive friend like you to help her deal with that and that she's healing.

I'm not surprised that it seems to stem from the stereotypes and garbage that gets churned out about autism in general. Even, sometimes, by people on the spectrum, because they've been bombarded with so much misinformation.

*hugs* to your friend.

It's absolutely okay to be a girly autistic girl.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 10, 2021, 10:31:19 PM
That's horrible. I can see how that would have damaged her deep down inside, especially given how difficult it is for autistic people to build a sense of their own self and how susceptible they are to external suggestion and input. I'm really glad she's got a supportive friend like you to help her deal with that and that she's healing.

I'm not surprised that it seems to stem from the stereotypes and garbage that gets churned out about autism in general. Even, sometimes, by people on the spectrum, because they've been bombarded with so much misinformation.

*hugs* to your friend.

It's absolutely okay to be a girly autistic girl.
I've been taking screenshots of the positive messages on here. (leaving you guys anonymous obviously)
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Marshie on October 10, 2021, 11:07:35 PM
Liking things that don't hurt others should never be seen as bad or wrong, and that includes being really girly! In fact, that's one of the things that would be the least harmful to others.

Let your friend know that the people who thing wrongly of her liking of girly-er things are a small group of people and that there are many more other people who don't see is as wrong and encourage her to be who she is!
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 11, 2021, 02:50:42 AM
being oneself is all that one CAN be.  gotta love it!  that's how it was meant to be, and is! 
*light and love*
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Beth3346 on October 11, 2021, 03:08:17 AM
i like "girly" things. makeup, cooking, the color pink and of course ponies :) the older i get the less i care what others think about it.

i definitely feel like things that are feminine are seen as more trivial or frivolous at least in the US media. it's wasteful to buy makeup, shoes clothes. yet buying electronics, cars, tools is seen as practical.

same with collectibles. men who collect coins, cards, sports memorabilia, or sneakers is cool. sometimes people even think of these collections as real investments. yet collecting dolls is "creepy", having multiple cats is "sad", having too many girly shoes or handbags is being spoiled. so many girly collections and hobbies are discouraged or made fun of. i just don't feel like more masculine collectibles are treated the same.

it sounds like your friend has a good friend in you. bullies have their own issues that cause them to be nasty. tell her that its ok to like what you like and there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking girly things :) and it's not her job to please bullies.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 11, 2021, 11:52:51 AM
Beth's right, there is a bigger issue here. Like it's okay for guys to spend hours gaming, but if a girl invests the same time in something frivolous she's considered immature/childish/somehow broken. And if women choose not to have kids, they get ostracised, but if they choose to give up work and stay home and look after kids, they get a lack of support and assumption that it's just easy and not really a 'job' - even though it is. Neither one of those decisions are wrong, they're both personal choices based on circumstances, but society likes to weigh in on them anyway.

But women are people, not stereotypes. We don't necessarily fit a mould.

I mean, I collect my little ponies. I also have a PhD in mediaeval Japanese history, with a lot of emphasis on warriors, battles and that stuff. There's no way of defining what kind of person someone is by assuming stereotypes.

There can be pressure to conform to certain stereotypes, and a backlash can come from that. Even in my academic field there's like a lowkey expectation that as a woman I'd be interested in certain female characters and be writing about that side of the narrative. But that's not me.

Defining someone else by a narrow set of views is always wrong. I'm really not a girly girl but I like my fair share of pink things. My whole bedroom is pink, white and purple as it happens.

What Marshie said is also really important. People judge things that make them insecure. The problem is in the bully, not in your friend. This is a bigger problem across lots of stereotypes, but they're mostly built out of ignorance. People feel threatened by something that isn't the same as them. This is actually a natural instinct that human beings developed at evolution to protect against predators (according to my psychologist trained former mentor).

...Autistic people apparently mostly don't have that instinct, it's why we have more issues spotting dangerous social interactions, can sometimes react to a situation in an unexpected way, and are more likely to get hurt by stumbling into something unprepared. We don't have that internal warning system other people have that something unknown might be a threat. But - and especially given modern society - it also means we're not caught up as much on the assumptions and stereotypes laid down by other people. That ought to mean we're better at being individuals and at picking and choosing who we want to be based on our own instincts, rather than on the expectations of everyone else.

It's a double edged sword really, and navigating it can be tough without the warning signs.

But your friend is fine. And hey, it worked for Barbie for GENERATIONS. So yeah.


Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 11, 2021, 08:57:42 PM
gosh the convo in here is so lovely.  :lovey:
I told her that I made this thread and have been passing along all the messages.
She might Join mlp arena herself.
Beth's right, there is a bigger issue here. Like it's okay for guys to spend hours gaming, but if a girl invests the same time in something frivolous she's considered immature/childish/somehow broken. And if women choose not to have kids, they get ostracised, but if they choose to give up work and stay home and look after kids, they get a lack of support and assumption that it's just easy and not really a 'job' - even though it is. Neither one of those decisions are wrong, they're both personal choices based on circumstances, but society likes to weigh in on them anyway.

But women are people, not stereotypes. We don't necessarily fit a mould.

I mean, I collect my little ponies. I also have a PhD in mediaeval Japanese history, with a lot of emphasis on warriors, battles and that stuff. There's no way of defining what kind of person someone is by assuming stereotypes.

There can be pressure to conform to certain stereotypes, and a backlash can come from that. Even in my academic field there's like a lowkey expectation that as a woman I'd be interested in certain female characters and be writing about that side of the narrative. But that's not me.

Defining someone else by a narrow set of views is always wrong. I'm really not a girly girl but I like my fair share of pink things. My whole bedroom is pink, white and purple as it happens.

What Marshie said is also really important. People judge things that make them insecure. The problem is in the bully, not in your friend. This is a bigger problem across lots of stereotypes, but they're mostly built out of ignorance. People feel threatened by something that isn't the same as them. This is actually a natural instinct that human beings developed at evolution to protect against predators (according to my psychologist trained former mentor).

...Autistic people apparently mostly don't have that instinct, it's why we have more issues spotting dangerous social interactions, can sometimes react to a situation in an unexpected way, and are more likely to get hurt by stumbling into something unprepared. We don't have that internal warning system other people have that something unknown might be a threat. But - and especially given modern society - it also means we're not caught up as much on the assumptions and stereotypes laid down by other people. That ought to mean we're better at being individuals and at picking and choosing who we want to be based on our own instincts, rather than on the expectations of everyone else.

It's a double edged sword really, and navigating it can be tough without the warning signs.

But your friend is fine. And hey, it worked for Barbie for GENERATIONS. So yeah.



this fear of being yourself anywhere is something I never really understood, and still don't.
I'm heavily anti "cringe culture" on my tiktok and would rather believe the best in people.

Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: starscout on October 12, 2021, 07:24:44 AM
Growing up, I was full of internalized misogyny, and I did my best to be "not like the other girls." Which is really lame, since I missed out on so much. As an adult, I LOVE any and all things girly! Being a girl is nothing to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 12, 2021, 09:03:51 AM
Cringe culture was mostly invented by people stuck in a high school mentality anyway. It takes a pretty big inferiority complex to want to target other people for having different hobbies or interests.

I mean, I don't understand why people collect stamps, or action figures, or cars. But all power to them. It's their life.

And if someone wants to dress like a rock star from the eighties and visit their local library (actually happened to me with a customer when I worked there), also, all power to them.

Life is short. It should be full of things that make you happy, not chains laid down by other people who are not.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 12, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
Cringe culture was mostly invented by people stuck in a high school mentality anyway. It takes a pretty big inferiority complex to want to target other people for having different hobbies or interests.

I mean, I don't understand why people collect stamps, or action figures, or cars. But all power to them. It's their life.

And if someone wants to dress like a rock star from the eighties and visit their local library (actually happened to me with a customer when I worked there), also, all power to them.

Life is short. It should be full of things that make you happy, not chains laid down by other people who are not.
well said  :happy:
Growing up, I was full of internalized misogyny, and I did my best to be "not like the other girls." Which is really lame, since I missed out on so much. As an adult, I LOVE any and all things girly! Being a girl is nothing to be ashamed of.
internalized misogyny is why a lot of bullying happens I think. Glad you grew out of it in a healthy way
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Zapper on October 13, 2021, 10:43:01 AM
Warning: this post is generally speaking in regards to the topic at large, if anyone feels personally attacked that's their business :|

"Girly" and "boyish" are both dumb concepts considering most of it is based on societal pressures. Also, girly girls are mostly bullied by boys, who then turn out to be most attracted to them once puberty kicks in. It's literally boys and men hating you but also wanting to be with you. You need to seek that convo with them.
You can't ask other girls to always tolerate your stuff, either. This might hurt to hear, I know. As most girls and young women have learned to feel helpless and avoid conflict and let tensions brew until it all escalates. But you gotta seek confrontation once in a while. Don't always run from your bullies, give them a piece of your mind. If possible, ask them why they are thinking the way they think (only possible if they are not trolls, not always obvious if on the internet).

A lot of stuff considered "feminine" is also about material goods and certain styles/looks nowadays and pointing that out is perfectly fine once in a while. On a darker note, materialism gets also pushed onto women as a means to deplete our own income now that we are (mostly) able to have it. We really don't need 20 make-up pallettes, 30 pairs of handbags, 100 MLPS :P just to be able to fit in as totes feminine and therefore good women. A woman who invests money into her own business or charity or kids is also objectively smarter as a woman who gets 20 high heels for the same amount of money. No "feminine bashing" here, ma'am/sir. Sometimes it's just facts.

On weakness being seen as feminine and practical being seen as masculine:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

"Feminine" just means "asociated with female" and therefore, most things could be feminine. Not just bows and pink and Animal Crossing.

Also, as someone who was a "tomboy" in terms of behaviour and style, I gotta say the girly girls could be really viscious about these things, too. They'd view any girl who didn't look like them as an enemy and try to tear them down for their looks. It didn't matter if you shared interests with them. You HAD to wear skirts and have long hair like a pony, even though both wasn't practical. Boys would pull up your skirt and long hair was a mess to deal with if you wanted to be out and about in nature and get all sorts of things stuck in it. So why have it? Because it's "feminine"? So what?

Just food for thought.

Tl;Dr: What people consider "feminine" can be fake and often hinders girls and women. Try to see the bigger picture to better deal with societal concepts and pressures.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 13, 2021, 07:55:53 PM
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
I think there's a lot of nuance to being human in general. Society likes to put people in boxes and then a fuss is had when they don't fit.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 13, 2021, 08:31:06 PM
I agree with the above.

It also doesn't help because as autistic women we don't have those boxes in our head and don't really understand them.

I think Zapper's points are not wrong, but I also think the autism complicates the situation here because of the different relationship between gender identity and the spectrum in general.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on October 14, 2021, 12:36:33 AM
everybody is right!  oh except the haters.  ;)

Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Ponybookworm on October 14, 2021, 03:56:05 AM
I don't hate pink. I don't hate make-up. I don't hate dresses, skirts, or tights. I don't hate handbags or make-up. I don't even hate fashion, romance novels, baby dolls, boy bands, vases, or tea parties.

What I hate is being EXPECTED to ONLY like, wear, or do these things. I'm more than that, & so is every woman & girl out there.

It's fine to embrace the female. But I don't want to see somebody wear pink & not say it's their favourite colour. I don't want to see somebody in a skirt which makes them feel overexposed & uncomfortable. I don't want to see somebody told "no, that's for boys to play with. How about a nice dolly???"

Dolls, Pink, skirts, heels, & all the rest should be acceptable preferences, not limiting restrictions.

Oh & I also can't stand hearing "no, that's for girls to play with. How about a fun toy car???"
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 14, 2021, 08:11:41 AM
This too ^^.

I feel like a woman should be able to make those calls for herself. That's part of being treated as a whole and equal human being.

Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 14, 2021, 09:34:21 PM
I agree with the above.

It also doesn't help because as autistic women we don't have those boxes in our head and don't really understand them.

I think Zapper's points are not wrong, but I also think the autism complicates the situation here because of the different relationship between gender identity and the spectrum in general.
I have a tendency to make connections more than boxes. I do like labels when it comes to identity and such but that's mostly because I have built myself out of different interests in my life rather than fitting myself into topics. ( I feel like that didn't make sense)
This too ^^.

I feel like a woman should be able to make those calls for herself. That's part of being treated as a whole and equal human being.


Exactly, I'm gonna expand that to everyone should be able to make those calls. It's part of why I'm going to raise my future kids in a gender neutral way. Let them find there own gender and not force them to stick to one expression or the other.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Beth3346 on October 15, 2021, 12:21:16 AM
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 15, 2021, 12:29:30 AM
i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.

This times 100.

Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 15, 2021, 05:16:13 AM
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Beth3346 on October 15, 2021, 02:11:38 PM
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   

I find it pretty disturbing that she was encouraged to like violent things. Some parts of the internet are pretty scary.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 17, 2021, 08:21:31 PM
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   

I find it pretty disturbing that she was encouraged to like violent things. Some parts of the internet are pretty scary.
yeah it was scary to hear about. She still has some trauma responses  :sad:
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Taffeta on October 17, 2021, 09:37:47 PM
What makes this so horrible for me is that people on the spectrum generally are more sensitive to the behaviour and mood of other people than someone not on the spectrum. We do have problems sometimes reading that mood correctly, but hostile energy, we pick up on very easily. It's also much harder to create a sense of 'self', I forget what it's called but there's some research that has proven that autistic people struggle to identify themselves and thus are more likely to build on the opinions or expectations of people outside. And this can be really dangerous, especially if the people outside are trash.

It's really possible to create massive amounts of trauma in an autistic person from something that someone else might just laugh at and call a joke. Telling her that she would become evil for being 'girly' and had to change how she acted - given that people on the spectrum are constantly being told to change/act a certain way/conform/whatever...would have been traumatic.

Just makes me sad as a fellow autistic person that she had to go through that, and I really hope she's able to come through it and find confidence in being herself.

It would be really nice if people didn't put so much pressure on others to be something they aren't, basically. And gave them some time to figure out for themselves who they are...
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on October 18, 2021, 10:48:36 AM
What makes this so horrible for me is that people on the spectrum generally are more sensitive to the behaviour and mood of other people than someone not on the spectrum. We do have problems sometimes reading that mood correctly, but hostile energy, we pick up on very easily. It's also much harder to create a sense of 'self', I forget what it's called but there's some research that has proven that autistic people struggle to identify themselves and thus are more likely to build on the opinions or expectations of people outside. And this can be really dangerous, especially if the people outside are trash.

It's really possible to create massive amounts of trauma in an autistic person from something that someone else might just laugh at and call a joke. Telling her that she would become evil for being 'girly' and had to change how she acted - given that people on the spectrum are constantly being told to change/act a certain way/conform/whatever...would have been traumatic.

Just makes me sad as a fellow autistic person that she had to go through that, and I really hope she's able to come through it and find confidence in being herself.

It would be really nice if people didn't put so much pressure on others to be something they aren't, basically. And gave them some time to figure out for themselves who they are...
she's healed a lot and it helps that her boyfriend loves that she's a girly girl. Nowadays the only real thing that upsets her is drama. She'll have her moments of self doubt but it's much rarer.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Iceglider on November 17, 2021, 12:19:46 AM
One thing I loved about FIM is that each pony was feminine in her own way and never less than. Being a girl is fun and amazing. <3 Random online chats are usually very toxic.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: starscout on November 17, 2021, 01:06:13 AM
One thing I loved about FIM is that each pony was feminine in her own way and never less than. Being a girl is fun and amazing. <3 Random online chats are usually very toxic.

Agreed! There's no one way to be a girl, and it's great to see that in media, especially when it's aimed towards girls. A lot of the movies and shows I grew up with depicted the more stereotypical feminine characters as dumb or evil. As embarrassing as it is to admit, I think that partially contributed to my "not like the other girls" phase. Anyways, I really appreciated the Diamond Dogs episode of FiM for its message that femininity does not equal weakness.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on November 17, 2021, 03:29:45 AM
I agree that females are often depicted as lacking in agency and two-dimensional in mainstream media storytelling. I think that has changed a lot recently but then I watch a lot of Netflix.
Title: Re: About Feminine things
Post by: DreamsofUnicorn on November 17, 2021, 07:29:06 PM
I agree that females are often depicted as lacking in agency and two-dimensional in mainstream media storytelling. I think that has changed a lot recently but then I watch a lot of Netflix.
netflix is a pretty popular option for media
but yes I would agree
I hope pipp will continue that trend
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