The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Mana Minori on July 31, 2020, 06:53:08 PM
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Ok, I know this will likely never ever happen, but I just have to wonder....MY LITTLE PONY hasn’t been shy about throwing Christianity themes in the animated series- ever since g1 (though it seems far more prevalent in g4)...Demonic centaurs, witches, demonic gods of chaos, the literal realm of HELL (Tartarus), Horned devil costumes worn by the ponies in the background, Moochick mentioning “heaven”, PARADISE estate, Characters named Angel Bunny and Angel Wings, name swaps with “Celestia” being used in phrases with “God” in them.....
So with all this, hypothetically....what if Hasbro acquired the rights to the VERY adult-aimed animated Indie content Produced by “Vivziepop”, the creator of “Hazbin Hotel” (an animated pilot about demons and sinners in hell wanting to be “redeemed” by a demon princess so they can go to heaven) and began doing Pony crossover releases in the collectibles department (available online only, for obvious reasons), sort of in the way that they have been doing for their board games (and MtG) lately? Would this acquisition and possible mashup help or hinder the pony brand? Would it make it more “endearing” toward the adult audience? Does pony need to go in such a direction? How might Vivziepop’s fan base feel about Cute pastel ponies in their (hypothetically now Hasbro’s) playground?
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Ok, I know this will likely never ever happen, but I just have to wonder....MY LITTLE PONY hasn’t been shy about throwing Christianity themes in the animated series- ever since g1 (though it seems far more prevalent in g4)...Demonic centaurs, witches, demonic gods of chaos, the literal realm of HELL (Tartarus), Horned devil costumes worn by the ponies in the background, Moochick mentioning “heaven”, PARADISE estate, Characters named Angel Bunny and Angel Wings, name swaps with “Celestia” being used in phrases with “God” in them.....
:hmm: Given how a lot of these references permeate secular popular consciousness and casual usage (and have for ages), I think you are reeeeeeeally reaching here.
Also, Tartarus is from Greek mythology. Although FiM does conflate it with the punitive portion of Hades' realm
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Ok, I know this will likely never ever happen, but I just have to wonder....MY LITTLE PONY hasn’t been shy about throwing Christianity themes in the animated series- ever since g1 (though it seems far more prevalent in g4)...Demonic centaurs, witches, demonic gods of chaos, the literal realm of HELL (Tartarus), Horned devil costumes worn by the ponies in the background, Moochick mentioning “heaven”, PARADISE estate, Characters named Angel Bunny and Angel Wings, name swaps with “Celestia” being used in phrases with “God” in them.....
:hmm: Given how a lot of these references permeate secular popular consciousness and casual usage (and have for ages), I think you are reeeeeeeally reaching here.
Also, Tartarus is from Greek mythology. Although FiM does conflate it with the punitive portion of Hades' realm
fair enough.
Now do you have any thoughts on the hypothetical crossover?
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I'd rather it not happen, it'd probably just result in more tacky brony-drool material.
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The moment you actively try to conflate religion with a kid's toy, however benign your intent, you're asking for trouble.
Fantasy is designed to be fantastical. End of.
And MLP is not meant to appeal to the adult audience. I agree with ZeldatheSwordsman. It would just be feeding the brony trolls.
Now I'm gonna put my academic hat on for a moment, but carefully, because I think this is the kind of subject that some people might take amiss.
Assuming every theme in a story that relates to god, heaven, demons etc has to be evoking Christianity just demonstrates lack of awareness of global and cultural traditions across the world. Most of the things you mention don't immediately indicate a connection to Christianity.
I think maybe before you jump to those conclusions it'd be a good idea to do some wider reading on other cultures, legends, myths, other faiths, and fantasy in general.
For example, the sunstone in the End of Flutter Valley could easily be linked with the Aten in ancient Egypt, but there are also many other solar-based religions and 'pagan' faiths that might use that kind of a concept.
Demons are very common in Japanese mythology. Gods are present in multiple faiths, they just use different words depending on the language that dominates them. The words you emphasise are used in multiple contexts and cultures, too - just maybe in translation. But since MLP was translated, that's not really an argument either.
I feel like you're also trying to paint the other generations with the G4 cartoon brush, which you should never do. I don't know what the intention of the G4 animators was, because I don't care at all about FIM. But I know that things like kirins, which are asian in origin, are part of the mythological construct.
Just because we use a word in English to denote something doesn't mean it's the correct word, either, or that by using our word we're not conveying the wrong meaning on the cultural concept behind it.
But going back to MLP on the dark side, let's not forget this is a kid's franchise.
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That it is. And frankly it's quite capable of being dark on its own terms when it wants to be, without betraying that. Just think of some of the threats the ponies have faced in G1 alone: A fiendish-looking centaur trying to unleash eternal night and threatening to behead a baby dragon, lots of child abductions by various antagonists, evil witches who consider genocide a sport, fascist penguins trying to freeze the world, a wish gone awry causing a drought that makes California's water issues look inconsequential... And on occasion, some of the villains are outright slain - obliterated, even.
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The moment you actively try to conflate religion with a kid's toy, however benign your intent, you're asking for trouble.
Fantasy is designed to be fantastical. End of.
And MLP is not meant to appeal to the adult audience. I agree with ZeldatheSwordsman. It would just be feeding the brony trolls.
Now I'm gonna put my academic hat on for a moment, but carefully, because I think this is the kind of subject that some people might take amiss.
Assuming every theme in a story that relates to god, heaven, demons etc has to be evoking Christianity just demonstrates lack of awareness of global and cultural traditions across the world. Most of the things you mention don't immediately indicate a connection to Christianity.
I think maybe before you jump to those conclusions it'd be a good idea to do some wider reading on other cultures, legends, myths, other faiths, and fantasy in general.
For example, the sunstone in the End of Flutter Valley could easily be linked with the Aten in ancient Egypt, but there are also many other solar-based religions and 'pagan' faiths that might use that kind of a concept.
Demons are very common in Japanese mythology. Gods are present in multiple faiths, they just use different words depending on the language that dominates them. The words you emphasise are used in multiple contexts and cultures, too - just maybe in translation. But since MLP was translated, that's not really an argument either.
I feel like you're also trying to paint the other generations with the G4 cartoon brush, which you should never do. I don't know what the intention of the G4 animators was, because I don't care at all about FIM. But I know that things like kirins, which are asian in origin, are part of the mythological construct.
Just because we use a word in English to denote something doesn't mean it's the correct word, either, or that by using our word we're not conveying the wrong meaning on the cultural concept behind it.
But going back to MLP on the dark side, let's not forget this is a kid's franchise.
oh, I am well aware of that. Religion is a massive can of worms to a lot of people, especially when tacked onto a toy or collectible and thrust into the spotlight. And I may have been wrong in the op for using themes as the word when talking about MLP. I know the show is pure fantasy, and I should have used “elements” instead, to describe the many examples, as the show itself doesn’t really follow a religious Story narrative in any gen.
Creating this topic wasn’t meant to cause amiss, and I do apologize if anyone were to take it that way. Again- it’s just a “what if” scenario, since the topic of pony crossovers with other things have been on the table as of late. Didn’t and don’t mean to trigger anyone. Either was it my intent to paint all gens with the same brush as you say- but merely pointing out the certain elements I thought were made manifest across the gens.
I do appreciate the reminder of cultural context you bring up, as that wasn’t a factor that I originally considered at the time of writing this.
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D&D ponies aren't anti-christian enough? /s
(I joke with this because my childhood friend's mom flipped out on us for playing a "devil's game". We were playing dodgeball on a jungle gym which we had called dungeons and dragons).
But really, I agree with what Taffeta said.
EDIT:
TO REITERATE:
I *didn't* mean ANY kind of seriousness with my comment.
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The Arena is generally a pretty mature place when it comes to discussions but there are certain topics the mods prefer to be treated with care (and sometimes in the WYP section).
I personally don't see religion as a controversial subject necessarily, but everyone is entitled to their own perspectives and sensitivities where such things are concerned :)
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Uh what christian influences? You do know all of those are from mythological cultures around the world don't you? Or that the actual creatures in judeo/christian mythos is actually based around demonizing pre-judeo/christian lore in certain parts of the middle east? :pout: I mean c'mon! Mythology is something little kids learn in world history classes.:facepalm:
Anyway, mlp has subtly dark tones, but it's done in such a way that its not generally considered frightening. Just our protags who go up against creatures. And they can sometimes appeal to their better natures.
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D&D ponies aren't anti-christian enough? /s
(I joke with this because my childhood friend's mom flipped out on us for playing a "devil's game". We were playing dodgeball on a jungle gym which we had called dungeons and dragons).
But really, I agree with what Taffeta said.
well Some Christians tend to see dragons as evil and Satanic, due to The Devil being associated with a dragon...
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D&D ponies aren't anti-christian enough? /s
(I joke with this because my childhood friend's mom flipped out on us for playing a "devil's game". We were playing dodgeball on a jungle gym which we had called dungeons and dragons).
But really, I agree with what Taffeta said.
well Some Christians tend to see dragons as evil and Satanic, due to The Devil being associated with a dragon...
I'm not sure how the people of Wales would feel about their national emblem being branded 'satanic'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Wales
I think you're treading on very dangerous ground, honestly.
Reiterating what I said in my earlier post about respect for and knowledge of other cultures.
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You have cool ideas, OP. I'm also positive the ideas used in g1 cartoons are judeo-christian in nature. 80s cartoons (and videogames) didn't mind that sort of thing.
As for Hazbin Hotel crossover with pony, dear God I hope not. Mainly because that fandom is...well. It gives me Brony vibes.
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D&D ponies aren't anti-christian enough? /s
(I joke with this because my childhood friend's mom flipped out on us for playing a "devil's game". We were playing dodgeball on a jungle gym which we had called dungeons and dragons).
But really, I agree with what Taffeta said.
well Some Christians tend to see dragons as evil and Satanic, due to The Devil being associated with a dragon...
Which is more to do with certain harmful attitudes, that to be fair, everyone sadly had back then of other people. The world was not a very kind place obviously. That does not make the dragon the sole property of one specific mythos, when many places have them and have their own view on the dragon's symbology in the world.
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One of the main characters in Hazbin Hotel is an "adult film star" in Corral terms. I don't want to think about the pony version of that/what the ponies would do to get into hell there in a crossover.
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I don't know anything about Hazbin, but I want to pop in to say that I don't think you're wrong to assume that at least some of G1's mythological references were based in Christianity. Not explicitly, of course, but when people create media their own life experiences are going to become involved with it. Mentions of heaven, paradise, demons, etc are likely to come from the creators' knowledge, who were American and likely raised in a Christian household (statistically speaking. I am not Christian and I wasn't raised in a Christian household, but I am American and most people in my area are Christian). And just because this religious knowledge is casual and mainstream, doesn't mean some of it isn't references to Christianity... I think people are coming at you too hard for that aspect of your post.
And g4's casual swap of "God" with "Celestia" is, while not necessarily Christian, an interesting religious parallel. They didn't need to write lines akin to "sweet god" or "oh my god" but they decided to parallel that real world common phrase, which originated from Christianity (according to Google), in their fantasy world. Obviously Christianity doesn't exist in MLP but in mimicking the real world, they also mimic the deep but casual influences of Christianity/religion in general.
Anyway, I don't mean to write a book in this post, but I honestly feel that adult crossovers wouldn't be the worst thing. Clearly it would be difficult to keep separate from children's MLP content on the internet, in which case there would be an issue. But MLP isn't a complete stranger to stuff like making MLP shot glasses and other nods to their adult audience. However I can't comment much on this cause I have no idea what Hazbin is :P
I do know that sometimes there are little references in adult media to popular kid's media, like a few Gravity Falls references - a family-friendly cartoon - occurring in the adult cartoon Rick and Morty. Not an explicit mashup per se but just a little nod for the adult audience of Gravity Falls who would appreciate a little reference like that, and the implication that the kid-friendly universe of GF takes place in the same universe as the darker R&M. Perhaps a nod to adult audiences without a full mashup would go over well.
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Colorful magical ponies living in a fantasy land = fantastical creatures exist in their world.
Fantasy mythical creatures?! My Little Pony has always BEEN "the dark side".
ask any child who grew up with ultra-conservative religious parents who made them cut the horns off their unicorns and only bought them Earth ponies with no gimmicks.
G4 just continued the tradition of what G1 had already started, world-building wise.
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If MLP have heavy Christianity themes that is news to me. Because I sure never saw them. Especially in G4, my favorite most watched show. The only thing in that is Hearth's Warming being a replacement to Christmas and the term Crusaders being used. But those things are stripped of any religious meaning.
As for if MLP wants to be an adult show then I'm bailing. I hate "adult" things
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I think I would be just as horrified if “Sesame Street” went to the dark side. My Little Pony has always been a mostly kid’s thing to me. I may like it as an adult, but it would be sad to basically make it unviewable to children.
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I think I would be just as horrified if “Sesame Street” went to the dark side. My Little Pony has always been a mostly kid’s thing to me. I may like it as an adult, but it would be sad to basically make it unviewable to children.
Well it sorta did. They had that stupid adult muppet movie and it was just beyond tacky and tasteless.
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I think I would be just as horrified if “Sesame Street” went to the dark side. My Little Pony has always been a mostly kid’s thing to me. I may like it as an adult, but it would be sad to basically make it unviewable to children.
Well it sorta did. They had that stupid adult muppet movie and it was just beyond tacky and tasteless.
Ok then, I’m horrified. :(
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D&D ponies aren't anti-christian enough? /s
(I joke with this because my childhood friend's mom flipped out on us for playing a "devil's game". We were playing dodgeball on a jungle gym which we had called dungeons and dragons).
But really, I agree with what Taffeta said.
well Some Christians tend to see dragons as evil and Satanic, due to The Devil being associated with a dragon...
Eh, it's way more complicated then just "a dragon". She thought we were playing the actual game, not our made up game. This is someone who never I never had heard mention religion, and didn't even go to church except maybe Christmas.
I have a religious friend who would let her daughter play with ponies, but certainly not the D&D ones.
Colorful magical ponies living in a fantasy land = fantastical creatures exist in their world.
Fantasy mythical creatures?! My Little Pony has always BEEN "the dark side".
ask any child who grew up with ultra-conservative religious parents who made them cut the horns off their unicorns and only bought them Earth ponies with no gimmicks.
oof. I had wondered this, but didn't have any experience that, so I didn't mention it.
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The dark side?
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I find your lack of parties disturbing.
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You have cool ideas, OP. I'm also positive the ideas used in g1 cartoons are judeo-christian in nature. 80s cartoons (and videogames) didn't mind that sort of thing.
As for Hazbin Hotel crossover with pony, dear God I hope not. Mainly because that fandom is...well. It gives me Brony vibes.
Gee thanks. Considering I'm in both fandoms. This is why I never look at any besides customs here anymore. This place used to be inviting now I just feel like people are just gonna rag on stuff I enjoy.
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I was planning to do a custom pony of Lucifer XD
and I love dragons Im welsh !
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I love dark fan art all ready and Hazbin hotel is freaking amazing. Makes me want to do a custom. I think a Helluva boss custom would be cute also.
Post Merge: August 01, 2020, 02:57:33 PM
Also why would that be unwatchable by children? People censor their kids too much I was allowed to watch pretty much anything growing up and my friend has always let her son watch stuff aimed at adults. I never cussed or was violent and I watched plenty of R rated stuff.