The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: FiddlePhan on November 15, 2019, 12:07:32 AM

Title: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: FiddlePhan on November 15, 2019, 12:07:32 AM
Hey guys.  The MLP episode on Netflix is now available.   
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: SaraMari on November 15, 2019, 08:15:19 AM
I just finished watching it, I'm sad there wasn't more time spent on some of the creators and designers but overall it was enjoyable
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 15, 2019, 08:24:12 AM
Just finished watching it.   I enjoyed it.  It’s what I expected from this show.

For those who are concerned about what it contains.  It spends about 2/3rds of the episode on the original creation and progress through G1.  Goes pretty quickly through G2 and G3.  G2 fans may not like the portrayal of G2.

It does spend some time talking about the creation of FIM and a couple of minutes talking about bronies.  Then it movies on to Equestria Girls and circles back around to wrap the whole thing up.

I did see one or two bits of info that... weren’t inaccurate but didn’t tell the whole story.

But overall, I think it is a good episode.   When they get around to releasing this on DVD, I really hope that they will include more of the unedited interviews that they did as extras.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Nemesis on November 15, 2019, 09:01:54 AM
The question of “Why metal washers!? Why!?”... answered at last. XD
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: poniesthatsparkle on November 15, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
I'm really excited to watch it later! My mom made me promise to not watch anything from the new season until she gets off work this evening since she wants us to watch it together. She's been very excited about this, probably more than I am!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Pinkie21 on November 15, 2019, 10:40:29 AM
I was happy with it, and learned quite a bit about the history that I hadn’t known before.  I was also glad it didn’t focus *too* much on G4 and it’s fan base.  Granted I wish they didn’t show all that footage of bronies and wish they didn’t actually go and interview one, but it was short enough that it didn’t affect the episode itself.  I do wish the episodes were a bit longer, because it felt like they just breezed. by G2-3.5 in order to get to G4. 
Also man if they decided to go ahead and make that grey/black CP G1 proto for some special release or something I wouldn’t complain LOL
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 15, 2019, 10:57:36 AM
G2 fans may not like the portrayal of G2.

Can you spoil it for me and tell me what exactly we might not like? I haven't watched it yet.
Is it something along the lines of "this crap failed in the US so whatever!" ?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 15, 2019, 10:59:16 AM
Time ago I sent them pictures of my collection, and then I forgot it.

Today I received a text saying that one of my pics appears in the final credits  :lol:

I haven´t Netflix so I couldn´t see the episode (hope to find it in another website soon), but I´m happy to see my picture. The person that sent me the screenshots said its is the only collection from Argentina they showed  ^.^




visitors can't see pics , please register or login





Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 15, 2019, 11:29:51 AM
G2 fans may not like the portrayal of G2.

Can you spoil it for me and tell me what exactly we might not like? I haven't watched it yet.
Is it something along the lines of "this crap failed in the US so whatever!" ?
I did not watch it but I think the G1 collector they featured said they looked like bugs? This is secondhand from hearing people on Discord complain.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: SaraMari on November 15, 2019, 11:44:26 AM
yes they literally said they didn't look good and looked like "insects"
Spoiler
to me I got the vibe they were saying G2 ruined MLP (or threw it off track), and it wasnt until Lauren came in with FiM that it was saved. did anyone else get a feeling like that? They said G3 looked ok but said it didn't sell well or bring the glory back to the line.

when I say "they" I mean the voice of the documenters, what narrative they were writing

Valerie I'm glad your collection got featured! I enjoyed seeing the collections in the end credits!

I saw a friend of mine mention this on her ig, that they spent too much time repeating the same jokes and could've used that time to explain the development more (or talk about g2-g3.5) and I agree

TTTMU is very jokey and silly and I don't mind that, I know it helps draw in a bigger audience than just collectors, but I'd like more variation and details in the narrative
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 15, 2019, 11:45:45 AM
yes they literally said they didn't look good and looked like "insects"

to me I got the vibe they were saying G2 ruined MLP (or threw it off track), and it wasnt until Lauren came in with FiM and saved it
Ugh, I hate that implication. I'm so sick of the "G1 was great and then got infected with goo goo icky juice until Faust made it manly again" thing that gets spewed out by so many.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Noasar on November 15, 2019, 01:20:58 PM
I thought it was great! It was cool to see people’s collections in the credits at the ends - and cool to see some names I recognised from the community!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 15, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
G2 fans may not like the portrayal of G2.

Can you spoil it for me and tell me what exactly we might not like? I haven't watched it yet.
Is it something along the lines of "this crap failed in the US so whatever!" ?

So watching it for the second time.  As others have mentioned, G2 was referred to as insect like though it was one of the designers who says that specifically.  Summer does say that it was “nightmare fuel.”

For G3 they say “while not as popular as the ponies from the 80’s.......it far out performed these things (g2) but when sales began to sag...” g3.5 was designed.




Post Merge: November 15, 2019, 01:28:31 PM

yes they literally said they didn't look good and looked like "insects"

to me I got the vibe they were saying G2 ruined MLP (or threw it off track), and it wasnt until Lauren came in with FiM and saved it
Ugh, I hate that implication. I'm so sick of the "G1 was great and then got infected with goo goo icky juice until Faust made it manly again" thing that gets spewed out by so many.

I didn’t read it quite that way.  Not as G2 “ruining” mlp.  I read it as these are the design choices that were made and tried out and some were more successful than others. And then they segue into G4 by talking about the “story” which they had already touched on the lack of earlier.

I do wish that they had mentioned the Hub and how Hasbro was trying to launch its own channel because I feel like that is an important aspect as to why they were looking to launch a new show and perhaps willing to throw a little more money into its development.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: SaraMari on November 15, 2019, 02:12:45 PM
Thanks for weighing in Sunset! I wasnt sure if I was reading too much into it because I felt a little sad that G2 got dunked on. Great point about the hub piece of it   
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 15, 2019, 02:21:48 PM

Valerie I'm glad your collection got featured! I enjoyed seeing the collections in the end credits!



Thank you!!!! I´m very happy, really didn´t expect that! Someone that has Netflix texted me today to send me the screenshot of my pic, I didn't even remember that I had sent photos to them  :lol: :biggrin: :lol:



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 15, 2019, 02:45:19 PM
Overall I liked it.

Some parts I didn't like:

Spoiler
They implied that "Rescue from Midnight Castle" was somehow inappropriate for girls.  I remember it as being the best thing I'd ever seen as a girl! Everyone in my grade had seen it too. Applejack was a big favorite.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Lilja on November 15, 2019, 03:12:08 PM
It was a good watch! I was not disappointed (only wish it could've been longer). Didn't know the origin of MPP/MLP was quite that convoluted, so that was interesting to hear. Glad G2 at least got a a mention, which was more than I had expected really.

Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 15, 2019, 03:44:21 PM
Thanks for weighing in Sunset! I wasnt sure if I was reading too much into it because I felt a little sad that G2 got dunked on. Great point about the hub piece of it   

I can see it not being fun to watch if your a fan of G2.  It didn’t bother me as much personally because G2 isn’t my favorite generation but also because this show does usually try to be pretty jokey.  That’s part of its entertainment value, especially for the non-fans.  All of the episodes have moments where they take pot shots at the less popular designs or gimmicks.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: poniesthatsparkle on November 15, 2019, 06:12:54 PM
I just watched it and I liked it! I'm kind of sad that G2 and G3 didn't get much attention but I was kind of expecting that. Overall I thought it was a fun episode, probably my favorite of the series!

My mom watched it with me and it was kind of fun when she kept asking if I had each pony that was mentioned. She was sad that I don't have Edgar the Elephant. Yet.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: caseysealia on November 15, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
Time ago I sent them pictures of my collection, and then I forgot it.

Today I received a text saying that one of my pics appears in the final credits  :lol:

I haven´t Netflix so I couldn´t see the episode (hope to find it in another website soon), but I´m happy to see my picture. The person that sent me the screenshots said its is the only collection from Argentina they showed  ^.^




visitors can't see pics , please register or login





Absolute congrats!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 15, 2019, 07:37:14 PM
Absolute congrats!


Thank you!!! :lovey:



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Nemesis on November 15, 2019, 08:50:25 PM
Finished watching it tonight! Definitely interesting—I really enjoyed it. Even though I’m a big G2 fan, I’m not really bothered by their panning of it. Obviously every fan (and designer) is entitled to their opinion of the different pony eras, and that’s how it should be. :) TTtMU has a very light, silly tone, and everything was in keeping with that.

I loved all the designer interviews. I particularly enjoyed Khipra Nichols’ insights on the playsets (and the origin of Spike)... G1 playsets were the best. <3

The only part that actually bugged me at all was the implication that RaMC was somehow a misstep. RaMC has always been my favorite pony animation! I really miss that perfect blend of rainbow ponies and horrific creatures of darkness. But maybe I’m weird. XD

P.S.: Congrats, Valerie!!! That’s so cool! :D
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: caseysealia on November 15, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
Absolute congrats!


Thank you!!! :lovey:




  :lovey: :hug:
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: cloud_weaver on November 15, 2019, 09:52:15 PM
I just watched the episode and really enjoyed it. I loved seeing all the history from the creators and developers at the My Little Pony line. It was very interesting to see how they came about.

I also loved seeing Summer, it was very exciting to see her actually in the show. (For those of you who don’t know, she’s the girl who runs the My Little Pony Fair and also wrote the book the my Little pony collectors guide).

I was a little disappointed with how frowned upon the G2’s were portrayed, with the ”This is not my little pony.”  I do love the G2’s, they have a unique style, but I do recognize that they are made by Kenner and not Hasbro.

All in all, though I really enjoyed the show.  Loved to see Lauren Faust’s take on why she stepped into the Pony realm.  I’ve never really gotten into the FiM show as much as other collectors, have watched most of the seasons but really never gotten into the fandom. So it was really unique and exciting to be able to see her love for a G1’s and why she wanted to accurately represent in G4. Made me appreciate friendship is magic that much more.

Side note, Nemisis - I LOVED the Return to Midnight Castle special. It was the first ep. I ever watched, and I absolutely adore it. You are not alone!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Eighties_Otaku on November 15, 2019, 10:41:32 PM
I too enjoyed the episode and also wished they had more about the ideas and designs more. I guess that would be more of a documentary than anything, that I'd love to see. I'd throw money at that! I also hope there is more info on the extended version I hope to see one day.

On G2 was a bit sad at the quick throwaway bit and G3 didn't last long. Super happy the brony bit didn't go on. I wanted to hear about Escape from Catrina and what the heck that original cover art was about. Also, Rescue at Midnight Castle is amazing.

The bit with Lauren's letter was really sweet. She posted the whole thing on her twitter account.

Really happy to see Summer in there too. I'm sad I didn't get know about submitting my photo of my collection D:

All in all, it was quite enjoyable :)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: ponycake on November 15, 2019, 11:04:33 PM
I’m also sad I didn’t submit a picture. A picture of my MOC wall would have been fun. They didn’t say how successful ($) g4 has been did they? They compared the first 3 generations. Went a bit overboard on back and forth and jokes, but all in all enjoyable. I’d rather a 2 hour documentary on g1 😂 but 44 minutes is great.

I also was offended at bashing of rescue at midnight castle. It wasn’t scary, it was great! Guess not successful enough to keep it as high quality as it was. The movie and cartoon was a downgrade.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Mermaid on November 15, 2019, 11:18:34 PM
It was a good watch! I was not disappointed (only wish it could've been longer). Didn't know the origin of MPP/MLP was quite that convoluted, so that was interesting to hear. Glad G2 at least got a a mention, which was more than I had expected really.

Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

What are those adorable bunnies and that yellow moose/deer?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Shaz on November 16, 2019, 01:44:43 AM
I'm surprised Rescue at Midnight Castle was described as a misstep. It's my favourite pony cartoon of all time! I thought it was pretty universally loved?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Elfpony on November 16, 2019, 04:21:26 AM
I thought the episode was fun, and was what I expected based on the past seasons. It is very North America centric, which is not surprising as they’re focused a lot on the original development of the toys (and it was the same for the other episodes) but it would have been interesting to see some nirvana ponies or mention that G2 lasted way longer in Europe. But it’s only 45 minutes and we all know that we could talk about ponies for days and not cover everything.

Elf
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Carrehz on November 16, 2019, 06:09:09 AM
It was a good watch! I was not disappointed (only wish it could've been longer). Didn't know the origin of MPP/MLP was quite that convoluted, so that was interesting to hear. Glad G2 at least got a a mention, which was more than I had expected really.

Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

What are those adorable bunnies and that yellow moose/deer?!?!?!?!

I think the bunnies might be Bunnyhop from Moondreamers?

http://www.ghostofthedoll.co.uk/moondreamers-unproduced.php
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: SaraMari on November 16, 2019, 06:23:51 AM
Yes that's what that is: a Bunnyhop prototype. it's a prototype Kirk has. He brought it to Pony Fair last year

One thing I thought was funny way how they took all that time showing how dark and scary RaMC (was it really a misstep? did it do poorly?) was then had Lauren Faust later saying "They live in cupcake houses" haha I guess they live in cupcakes in between battling centaur  monsters with demonic powers haha
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: JazzMatazz on November 16, 2019, 06:42:34 AM
I feel like they could of shown more of the prototype stuff and concepts like they did for just about every other episode
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 16, 2019, 06:52:38 AM
Yes that's what that is: a Bunnyhop prototype. it's a prototype Kirk has. He brought it to Pony Fair last year

One thing I thought was funny way how they took all that time showing how dark and scary RaMC (was it really a misstep? did it do poorly?) was then had Lauren Faust later saying "They live in cupcake houses" haha I guess they live in cupcakes in between battling centaur  monsters with demonic powers haha


I was trying to figure out what she meant by cupcake houses but it occurs to me just now that she must have been referencing G3.5 ponyville.  That’s the only time I’ve seen anything that could be described as cupcake houses.  And it was what Hasbro had in stores at the time she was developing FIM.

I’ll add in my support for RAMC.  It was always my favorite.  But we have now idea what kind of feedback they got at the time.  They could have gotten a lot of parents say it was too scary.  Which would make sense as subsequent efforts turned down the scary factor.  Speaking of which, that is something I’d love to hear more about.. was it true that it was meant to be a full length or at least longer episode and it was cut due to money going elsewhere.

But as others have said, it was 44 minutes and only so much could be fit in.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on November 16, 2019, 09:53:01 AM
Time ago I sent them pictures of my collection, and then I forgot it.

Today I received a text saying that one of my pics appears in the final credits  :lol:

I haven´t Netflix so I couldn´t see the episode (hope to find it in another website soon), but I´m happy to see my picture. The person that sent me the screenshots said its is the only collection from Argentina they showed  ^.^




visitors can't see pics , please register or login



I noticed it when I watched and cheered for you!! Hope you get to see the show soon.

I do think it was a little harsh on G2 but anyway we loved it  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Prince_Sunbeam on November 16, 2019, 10:36:56 AM
Time ago I sent them pictures of my collection, and then I forgot it.

Today I received a text saying that one of my pics appears in the final credits  :lol:

Congratulations!

The same exact thing happened to me!!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 16, 2019, 11:27:13 AM
Artemesia's Garden: Thank you!!!!  :flow:

I could watch it!!! I found it in a web page, if someone that hasn´t Netflixt want to watch it I can share the link (even though I don´t know if that is allowed here)  ^.^


Prince_Sunbeam:  :cheer: Is your pic in the show? wich one is yours?

And thanks for the congratulations  ;) ^.^



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Ponyfan on November 16, 2019, 12:13:56 PM
I just finished the episode. Overall I enjoyed it but there were a few things that I didn't like.

The joke with the pony falling over was funny the first few times but it was repeated a little too often for my taste.

I'm also a little confused why everyone that they interviewed said that RAMC wasn't what they had in mind for MLP. To me that episode established that the colorful ponies lived in a dangerous world where many creatures would not hesitate to enslave or destroy them.


FIM has always been hit or miss for me so I didn't enjoy Lauren's interview much or the fact that she said G4 Applejack is the exact same as G1 Applejack just with a cowboy hat and cowgirl ways.

I think the Fancy Mermaid babies they show in the advertisement are prototypes because Baby Pearly is a Peachy color instead of pink.  I didn't know that the original idea for MLP was all realistic horse colors.

I'm also a little sad that the UK comics weren't mentioned since some of the people they interviewed said that they "needed a story" to along with the toys.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: JazzMatazz on November 16, 2019, 01:48:53 PM


I'm also a little sad that the UK comics weren't mentioned since some of the people they interviewed said that they "needed a story" to along with the toys.


Perhaps that was all on a UK division of employees and not really on their radar? Or an outsourced license
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 16, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
The RaMC and G2 hating makes me want to not watch this. I could barely make it through the He-Man episode where one of the guys said She-Ra killed He-Man's popularity...

They are entitled to their (misinformed) opinions but I don't have to sit through them either :P
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Mermaid on November 16, 2019, 10:41:45 PM
I wonder if the Rainbow pony special was cancelled or scrapped after RAMC due to it being too scary as well and they went for something softer like escape from Catrina instead?

I realllllly wish they would have let the designers talk about the process a little more and what their personal favorites or ideas where as well as showing all those gorgeous prototypes and artwork!

The moon dreamer bunny is adorable! I wonder what that yellow moose/deer is though?!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: kingluke on November 17, 2019, 02:32:02 AM
I just watched it and liked it.
It was nice to learn about the creators and the metal washer mystery.
The narrating went from okay, to kind of annoying sometimes, but what can you do.
Overall it was good, but i would have liked the episode to focus more on the ponies themselves and less about the creators. Plus I'm glad they didn't hype up the prices, like: Is your pony worth 200 dollars?! That should help us at least :)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Carrehz on November 17, 2019, 06:26:36 AM
I wonder if the Rainbow pony special was cancelled or scrapped after RAMC due to it being too scary as well and they went for something softer like escape from Catrina instead?

wasn't that animation actually from the TV advert for the rainbow ponies...? I've always assumed there WAS no "rainbow pony special", they just knew they'd be making another MLP cartoon in the future (or thought it was a safe enough bet that they would, lol) and used that animation because it was new/handy/whatever.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Safflower on November 17, 2019, 08:05:49 AM
I’ve watched it and sat with it for a bit, and honestly, I just feel disappointed. It was ok, but not what I was expecting. I was hoping for some new info or looks at prototypes or like luke said, for them to focus on the ponies? All we got really was the washers. It was still a nice watch regardless.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Chibiskittles on November 17, 2019, 08:47:19 AM
i personally didnt like the pacing, they spent way too much time discussing "who created the ponies" for example, and not enough time focusing on the actual product.

But it was interesting to know that Hasbro was predominately a boy toy driven company prior to MLP and that we sort of changed their minds on that.  xD
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 17, 2019, 08:55:51 AM
I did like it.  It’s entertaining.

I do think the amount of editing of interviews they did was over the top.  I suspect that some points of view got twisted to fit a narrative.

As for being too scary, I thing My Little Pony and Friends was also pretty scary at times.  If it was that bad, why keep it up for years?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Wind~Whistler on November 17, 2019, 01:15:06 PM
Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Does that Snuzzle-looking pony have closed eyes? It looks like it, but her hair is in the way.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Mermaid on November 17, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Does that Snuzzle-looking pony have closed eyes? It looks like it, but her hair is in the way.

I thought the same thing, and then I remembered the bbe adult Sunlight perhaps there were several adult bbe ponies created as tests?!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Ponyfan on November 17, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
I would have liked a brief glimpse at Dream Beauties especially because they were mentioning Fashion Star Fillies from Kenner and Petite Ponies.

Also a little more explanation about exactly what "old MLP cartoons" Faust watched where ponies "didn't go on adventures and lived in cupcake houses in a meadow" as G1 MLP ponies went on many adventures. The episode showed clips from Tales during that segment but that was probably done because it fit with what Faust was saying.

I would have also liked a little balance on RAMC as even though everyone was saying that wasn't what they had in mind. Couldn't they find at least one person who said it might not have been what thy expected but they enjoyed or that it was more popular than they thought it would be?   


I wonder if the Rainbow pony special was cancelled or scrapped after RAMC due to it being too scary as well and they went for something softer like escape from Catrina instead?

wasn't that animation actually from the TV advert for the rainbow ponies...? I've always assumed there WAS no "rainbow pony special", they just knew they'd be making another MLP cartoon in the future (or thought it was a safe enough bet that they would, lol) and used that animation because it was new/handy/whatever.



The rainbow pony animation is from the TV ad for rainbow Ponies. I always find it interesting that it shows 2 rainbow ponies sliding down the rainbow and rainbow ponies jumping off the cliff. Maybe they used some of the animation from RAMC for inspiration for the ad.


Ponyfan
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: SaraMari on November 17, 2019, 02:01:20 PM
Yeah I watched it again with my mom and noted Lauren Faust was specifically G1 animation when she said (the ponies) "didn't go on adventures and lived in cupcake houses in a meadow"

I would like to direct her attention to the following
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :rolleyes: :rofl: haha!

and on the second viewing the "jokes" got more tiresome. Yeah I think blown up drama over who invented MLP will draw in more viewers but I really wanted just a couple minutes to hear about the prototypes and concept art that all the designers and artists had with them. And that whole "feed the beast" bit was a waste imo
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 17, 2019, 02:05:20 PM


Also a little more explanation about exactly what "old MLP cartoons" Faust watched where ponies "didn't go on adventures and lived in cupcake houses in a meadow" as G1 MLP ponies went on many adventures. The episode showed clips from Tales during that segment but that was probably done because it fit with what Faust was saying.

I would have also liked a little balance on RAMC as even though everyone was saying that wasn't what they had in mind. Couldn't they find at least one person who said it might not have been what thy expected but they enjoyed or that it was more popular than they thought it would be?   

I think they broke up that part of the interview with Faust and showed it out of order.   She said she was given cartoons to review but it would make sense if they were 3.5 cartoons as that was the show she was suppose to be improving on. Because some point she’s also talking about how she sees Firefly as a ”bad ass” and that’s exactly how Firefly is portrayed on RAMC.  Plus, all the dragon fighting, mountain climbing and basic adventures makes it hard to understand how she’s criticizing RAMC as having cupcake houses.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: ponycake on November 17, 2019, 04:37:10 PM


The rainbow pony animation is from the TV ad for rainbow Ponies. I always find it interesting that it shows 2 rainbow ponies sliding down the rainbow and rainbow ponies jumping off the cliff. Maybe they used some of the animation from RAMC for inspiration for the ad.


Ponyfan

Just an excuse to post a gif I made of it some years back :)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


A lot of the commercials did look more like Rescue at Midnight Castle than the episodes did.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


A well done and well illustrated tv series like RaMC and Escape from Catrina would have been fantastic. Guess they floundered back then with girls tv shows. Lady Lovely Locks didn't last long. Jem was a bit better.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 17, 2019, 05:15:03 PM


Also a little more explanation about exactly what "old MLP cartoons" Faust watched where ponies "didn't go on adventures and lived in cupcake houses in a meadow" as G1 MLP ponies went on many adventures. The episode showed clips from Tales during that segment but that was probably done because it fit with what Faust was saying.

I would have also liked a little balance on RAMC as even though everyone was saying that wasn't what they had in mind. Couldn't they find at least one person who said it might not have been what thy expected but they enjoyed or that it was more popular than they thought it would be?   

I think they broke up that part of the interview with Faust and showed it out of order.   She said she was given cartoons to review but it would make sense if they were 3.5 cartoons as that was the show she was suppose to be improving on. Because some point she’s also talking about how she sees Firefly as a ”bad ass” and that’s exactly how Firefly is portrayed on RAMC.  Plus, all the dragon fighting, mountain climbing and basic adventures makes it hard to understand how she’s criticizing RAMC as having cupcake houses.

I agree with this.  It doesn’t make any sense that Hasbro would have given her any G1 animation to watch but whatever they had been investing in most recently.  The show did clip in a picture of the retro DVD set implying that it was G1.  But then, to be generous, that may have been the closest DVD they had on hand to film that clip.  (I bet they did have to track that down to get clips of early animation for the show)  Would they have gone to the trouble of tracking down a DVD of the G3.5?  I don’t know, did DVDs of that even exist outside of coming with a toy?

But I agree, it would be nice to have these details spelled out.  But when they do release a dvd of season 3 I will buy it and let y’all know what extras there are.  I’m willing to make that sacrifice 😉
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Carrehz on November 17, 2019, 05:21:26 PM
I adore the RaMC/Catrina/commercial art style, I wonder if it might have been too detailed to keep up for a regular TV series (instead of a one-off special) at that point, though. I know I've heard before about other cartoons simplifying extraneous details on their character designs to make it easier for everyone to draw, stuff like that. Especially back then, when the animation materials would have been shipped back and forth and communication between the US and Asian crews would've been harder... I can see that being a reason for them to lose some of the more intricate details (I'm thinking stuff like how the ponies in RaMC had different hairstyles to each other, the fluffier/more detailed hair, etc).

The more I hear about these interviews, the less I like them. It really sounds like they were edited to push a certain narrative, like others have said... I'm still not sure if I want to watch this or not. All that stuff about them bashing G2 (insects?!?!?) doesn't exactly thrill me, either. :huh:

(The "cupcake house" thing is hysterical, though. I have nothing against Faust, but I do wish she'd stop bashing the pre-FiM stuff in interviews with inaccurate comments like this... to be fair, I have no context for that statement, maybe there were some leading questions being asked or something.. :shrug: Does G3.5 have cupcake houses, out of interest?)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Prince_Sunbeam on November 17, 2019, 05:39:07 PM


Prince_Sunbeam:  :cheer: Is your pic in the show? wich one is yours?

And thanks for the congratulations  ;) ^.^



Yes, the very first image in the credits. White bookcases lined with colored lights. I also recognized the photo of your collection and knew it had to be an arena member!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: FiddlePhan on November 17, 2019, 05:50:00 PM
Overall I'm really happy that they chose MLP to include for an episode.  They could have picked so many other toys instead.

They didn't seem to focus as much on design details etc as some other episodes, things about prototypes etc.  I haven't seen the rest of season 3 yet though so maybe that's just how they're doing this season.  More entertainment factor than being informative.   The other seasons had a bit more documentary feel but with a bit of humour here and there.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 17, 2019, 05:53:10 PM
Congrats both of you for the pics at the end! It was fun seeing your collections like that.


Quote

The more I hear about these interviews, the less I like them. It really sounds like they were edited to push a certain narrative, like others have said... I'm still not sure if I want to watch this or not. All that stuff about them bashing G2 (insects?!?!?) doesn't exactly thrill me, either. :huh:

It’s actually kind of heartwarming as the narrative is to highlight that little girls were the ones to see MLP’s potential while all the adults (even the creators) were left trying figure out what it was that made them such a hit.  MLP was an after thought.  Charmkins was suppose to be the big seller.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Sunset on November 17, 2019, 06:43:02 PM
Overall I'm really happy that they chose MLP to include for an episode.  They could have picked so many other toys instead.

They didn't seem to focus as much on design details etc as some other episodes, things about prototypes etc.  I haven't seen the rest of season 3 yet though so maybe that's just how they're doing this season.  More entertainment factor than being informative.   The other seasons had a bit more documentary feel but with a bit of humour here and there.

I’d say that both the TMNT and Power Rangers episodes where similar to MLP.  The story being more about “how did we get to the point of making these toys” rather than getting into the real nitty gritty toy design details.  It seems to me that the show is trying to draw in as wide of an audience as possible.  It needs to balance making it interesting to fans of that particular toy against making it entertaining to those who know nothing about the toy.  Perhaps they are more successful in some cases than other cases.  On the other hand, I only collect mlp so this is the first time I’ve watched one of these episodes (and I’ve seen them all) knowing more about the subject than the show goes into.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: achab1984 on November 17, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
I watched it last night and thought it was not to bad. I did not like that they kept bring up other toys though. That was time wasted that could of be put on more pony info!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Ponyfan on November 17, 2019, 07:39:32 PM


Also a little more explanation about exactly what "old MLP cartoons" Faust watched where ponies "didn't go on adventures and lived in cupcake houses in a meadow" as G1 MLP ponies went on many adventures. The episode showed clips from Tales during that segment but that was probably done because it fit with what Faust was saying.

I would have also liked a little balance on RAMC as even though everyone was saying that wasn't what they had in mind. Couldn't they find at least one person who said it might not have been what thy expected but they enjoyed or that it was more popular than they thought it would be?   

I think they broke up that part of the interview with Faust and showed it out of order.   She said she was given cartoons to review but it would make sense if they were 3.5 cartoons as that was the show she was suppose to be improving on. Because some point she’s also talking about how she sees Firefly as a ”bad ass” and that’s exactly how Firefly is portrayed on RAMC.  Plus, all the dragon fighting, mountain climbing and basic adventures makes it hard to understand how she’s criticizing RAMC as having cupcake houses.

I agree with this.  It doesn’t make any sense that Hasbro would have given her any G1 animation to watch but whatever they had been investing in most recently.  The show did clip in a picture of the retro DVD set implying that it was G1.  But then, to be generous, that may have been the closest DVD they had on hand to film that clip.  (I bet they did have to track that down to get clips of early animation for the show)  Would they have gone to the trouble of tracking down a DVD of the G3.5?  I don’t know, did DVDs of that even exist outside of coming with a toy?

But I agree, it would be nice to have these details spelled out.  But when they do release a dvd of season 3 I will buy it and let y’all know what extras there are.  I’m willing to make that sacrifice 😉


Thanks everyone. G3.5 animation makes the most sense but I guess it was the way that the clips were edited together that makes it seem like she's talking about G1 instead of G3.5 and the fact that she said "those ponies lived in a meadow." Dream Valley could be considered a giant meadow maybe?  I'm not sure where she got the cupcake houses though.  :lol:

I did like the story about Hasbro thinking Charmkins would be the big seller instead of MLP and then when the stores started calling them wanting more ponies they realized that MLP was a bigger hit than what they thought. 


Ponyfan


 
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 17, 2019, 07:50:37 PM
Yes, the very first image in the credits. White bookcases lined with colored lights. I also recognized the photo of your collection and knew it had to be an arena member!  :biggrin:


Awwww that was one of the pics that I most liked!!! I adore to combine lights with the ponies, they give a special touch to the pony shelves  ^.^



Congrats both of you for the pics at the end! It was fun seeing your collections like that.


Awww thank you! :lovey:



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: orangepeachmango on November 17, 2019, 07:52:58 PM
Im watching it as i type. I really like the information presented in the toys that made us, but donald ian black's voice kind of drives me nuts...and i don't like the manufactured "Drama" of the show.
and g2 hate always makes me sad : ( i get they're way different than g1 and were not a monetary success, but i rather like them, especially after i got some in my collection i liked them so much more.

any awkward "serious" conversation about bronies makes me uncomfortable lol.

Congrats both of you for the pics at the end! It was fun seeing your collections like that.


Awww thank you! :lovey:





i saw that too! congrats!! <3
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 17, 2019, 08:32:18 PM
i saw that too! congrats!! <3


Thank You!!!! :flow:



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Marlin on November 17, 2019, 09:54:27 PM
I found it entertaining. Didn't realise there were such discrepancies re the 'ownership' of the original design of the ponies (I did think that back and forth editing was funny - though goodness knows how much of the expressions/reactions were staged/edited for entertainment value).

I was also a little surprised at the multiple dissing of Rescue at Midnight Castle.... us 80's kids were boom baby with the dark fantasy! Well... I was, and I loved RAMC. Though, after being enlightened as to the creators etc (and the switching between transformers and more masculine cartoons) I can kind of understand it I guess - but I don't see it as reason to criticise - it didn't exactly dent their sales or popularity of mlp now, did it?! And (just personally) I'd watch RAMC and Escape from Catrina any day over FIM.

Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 18, 2019, 01:31:24 PM
I was also a little surprised at the multiple dissing of Rescue at Midnight Castle.... us 80's kids were boom baby with the dark fantasy! Well... I was, and I loved RAMC. Though, after being enlightened as to the creators etc (and the switching between transformers and more masculine cartoons) I can kind of understand it I guess - but I don't see it as reason to criticise - it didn't exactly dent their sales or popularity of mlp now, did it?! And (just personally) I'd watch RAMC and Escape from Catrina any day over FIM.

I am still weirded out by the RaMC remarks... like, so much stuff was like that in the 80s. I always assumed that's just what kids were into back then.
 
Last Unicorn is a girlhood CULT movie and it's much darker than RaMC. Little Mermaid was scary and violent (especially that final Boss Fight with Ursula), there was the Rainbow Brite pilot which was similar to RaMC, we had two Care Bears movies where they fought actual demons (a possessed book and a shapeshifter in all-red who makes deals with humans... sounds familiar). She-Ra fought monsters on the reg, the Fright Zone was literally the FRIGHT zone.

As a kid I was obsessed with Land Before Time and afaik, that movie was not made for boys only. It had female characters that were sold as plushies to little girls. It was gruesome as heck and somehow I not only survived watching it, I became a big fan and we played Sharptooth attack in Kindergarten :lookround:

Knowing how they think about RaMC makes me lose hope MLP will ever be as cool again. Instead we'll probably get more FiM style "now the ponies are in a WWII setting" crap that is way less suited for kids today than any dark fantasy setting could ever be.
If anyone wonders, I am talking about the FiM two-parter where Starlight altered the future(s) and one was a future where Celestia went to war and all ponies had to join the forces. Simply horrific compared to a couple of monsters in RaMC.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 18, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
I found it entertaining. Didn't realise there were such discrepancies re the 'ownership' of the original design of the ponies (I did think that back and forth editing was funny - though goodness knows how much of the expressions/reactions were staged/edited for entertainment value).

I was also a little surprised at the multiple dissing of Rescue at Midnight Castle.... us 80's kids were boom baby with the dark fantasy! Well... I was, and I loved RAMC. Though, after being enlightened as to the creators etc (and the switching between transformers and more masculine cartoons) I can kind of understand it I guess - but I don't see it as reason to criticise - it didn't exactly dent their sales or popularity of mlp now, did it?! And (just personally) I'd watch RAMC and Escape from Catrina any day over FIM.

My impression of that was it wasn't what the creators expected the marketing team to do.  It's interesting because no one interviewed said it was a failure.   MLP kept going strong and they really didn't change much afterwards even if they didn't like it.  Catrina was also scary.  So was My Little Pony and Friends... even the movie had dark moments and yet they sold even more toys.  I think they were simply thrown that this toy line was succeeding despite breaking all the rules they had in their heads and they had no idea why. 
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Beldarna on November 18, 2019, 11:20:33 PM
I've been trying to sort out my feelings after watching it and I am honestly dissapointed. The overall feeling is that I would have wanted a little more indept, but I don't know of what. But the bickering about who the original creator was and the tail-washer-thing got tiresome real fast. They could have saved some minutes there and focused on other stuff.. Like, all the other mlp-themed stuff they did, cups, cloths, clocks, the works. Many other episodes showed suff like that, just show there were more than just the dolls made. And the talk about Rescue at Midnight Castle made me shake my head. That was the first mlp-show I watched and I loved it! It's still my favorite!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: orangepeachmango on November 20, 2019, 06:31:34 PM
I've been trying to sort out my feelings after watching it and I am honestly dissapointed. The overall feeling is that I would have wanted a little more indept, but I don't know of what. But the bickering about who the original creator was and the tail-washer-thing got tiresome real fast. They could have saved some minutes there and focused on other stuff.. Like, all the other mlp-themed stuff they did, cups, cloths, clocks, the works. Many other episodes showed suff like that, just show there were more than just the dolls made. And the talk about Rescue at Midnight Castle made me shake my head. That was the first mlp-show I watched and I loved it! It's still my favorite!

the tail washer thing irked me too, especially because they didn't even mention how much of a pain the washer is for restorers/collectors down the road! sure it kept them (somewhat) balanced, but now we're paying the price with rusty tails :+( i thought they were going to mention that, or even anything about the problems that restorers have, like plasticizer, fading, yellowing, pony cancer, etc...
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Leave a Whisper on November 21, 2019, 10:36:02 AM
Time ago I sent them pictures of my collection, and then I forgot it.

Today I received a text saying that one of my pics appears in the final credits  :lol:

I haven´t Netflix so I couldn´t see the episode (hope to find it in another website soon), but I´m happy to see my picture. The person that sent me the screenshots said its is the only collection from Argentina they showed  ^.^




visitors can't see pics , please register or login






Gorgeous collection photo and congratulations!

Post Merge: November 21, 2019, 10:42:35 AM

It was a good watch! I was not disappointed (only wish it could've been longer). Didn't know the origin of MPP/MLP was quite that convoluted, so that was interesting to hear. Glad G2 at least got a a mention, which was more than I had expected really.

Some interesting stuff I noticed in the background:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

What is the white and pink pony with the clear wings?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Squirtsquirt on November 21, 2019, 10:52:14 AM
I wanted to know more about the creation of ponies overseas.  Since the internet opened up more collecting opportunities, I really wanted to hear more about how ponies crossed the seas and made it to other countries.  And how/why other lines were made that were never in the US.  I did enjoy the overall history part, but it did drag a bit with all the he said/she said with who created, etc.  I think it's safe to say that any great product is the brain child of many people, as they all contributed a different part to the overall idea.

It would be great if they did a part two!  Maybe they will, if fans respond positively and contribute more questions for pulling information together to get a "and this is the rest of the story" type deal going.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: nessa16 on November 21, 2019, 01:21:34 PM
I was also a little surprised at the multiple dissing of Rescue at Midnight Castle.... us 80's kids were boom baby with the dark fantasy! Well... I was, and I loved RAMC. Though, after being enlightened as to the creators etc (and the switching between transformers and more masculine cartoons) I can kind of understand it I guess - but I don't see it as reason to criticise - it didn't exactly dent their sales or popularity of mlp now, did it?! And (just personally) I'd watch RAMC and Escape from Catrina any day over FIM.

I am still weirded out by the RaMC remarks... like, so much stuff was like that in the 80s. I always assumed that's just what kids were into back then.
 
Last Unicorn is a girlhood CULT movie and it's much darker than RaMC. Little Mermaid was scary and violent (especially that final Boss Fight with Ursula), there was the Rainbow Brite pilot which was similar to RaMC, we had two Care Bears movies where they fought actual demons (a possessed book and a shapeshifter in all-red who makes deals with humans... sounds familiar). She-Ra fought monsters on the reg, the Fright Zone was literally the FRIGHT zone.

As a kid I was obsessed with Land Before Time and afaik, that movie was not made for boys only. It had female characters that were sold as plushies to little girls. It was gruesome as heck and somehow I not only survived watching it, I became a big fan and we played Sharptooth attack in Kindergarten :lookround:

I was under the assumption this was just the trend in the 80s and 90s too!  Hello...Little Nemo, Princess and the Goblin, We're Back, Happily Ever After, All Dogs Go to Heaven, The Magic Voyage, Anastasia...etc, etc  I can name so many more.  Kids shows were constantly about fighting evil. 

I've been trying to sort out my feelings after watching it and I am honestly dissapointed. The overall feeling is that I would have wanted a little more indept, but I don't know of what. But the bickering about who the original creator was and the tail-washer-thing got tiresome real fast. They could have saved some minutes there and focused on other stuff.. Like, all the other mlp-themed stuff they did, cups, cloths, clocks, the works. Many other episodes showed suff like that, just show there were more than just the dolls made. And the talk about Rescue at Midnight Castle made me shake my head. That was the first mlp-show I watched and I loved it! It's still my favorite!

Yes, yes! Merch or maybe the GIANT Blackpool(?unsure on the name) UK holiday light ups they had!  The bickering felt like elementary schoolroom stuff. 

I too was disappointed by the very hyped-up MLP episode. I have not watched the rest of the season because of it. It seemed like they did not want to have backlash for covering "too much" (if that is even how I mean it) and so, just glossed over everything. I agree too much time was spent on the creator feud. They did not go into as much detail as the actual TOYS other than what they were initially supposed to be based on Bonnie's design. Almost nothing on lines that came after, what ponies are the most collectable now-showed Rapunzel but no comment at all, or even babies and how Ember was the first, etc, etc, etc. Maybe it's because MLP is so big but they could've been more in depth. It was rather boring. No mention of Nirvana's or ponies around the world, Takara's, etc. Haven't they interviewed someone from Takara for previous episodes? Hello, get their take on Japan's MLP!

I did not even watch it to the end. G2 was unfavorably mentioned but there are a few of us that do love G2 and still collect it. Maybe find G2s creators and hear their take on rebooting the line and why they made them the way they did.  Immediately when they said how G2 failed after 2 years, in my head I was screaming "Not in Europe!!".  Definitely missed that opportunity, they did.

It was nice to see Summer in it but there should have been more interviews with other non-celebrity collectors. They did not even touch on the annual MLP fair (even though I think they had video footage?) or books Summer did which is what she is known for! Ok, great, brony...yay but they have already had their own show. I was very underwhelmed by the episode and am no longer excited for them to continue the series because it is already losing what I have loved about it. Maybe I just need to get MustBeJewel 's My Little Obsession DVD. I have wanted it but never got around to it.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Carrehz on November 21, 2019, 02:21:38 PM
Yes, it was the Blackpool Illuminations that had the MLP light-ups.

I imagine something like that'd probably be harder to find out stuff about (and might wander a bit too far off-topic? I've never seen the show, idk how much not-toy-but-related-to-a-toyline stuff they talk about. er, if that makes sense)... I'd like to hear more about the Illuminations, too, though. I wonder what happened to them... I seem to recall one was left in a closed-down garden center, or somesuch..
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 21, 2019, 02:46:33 PM
I disagreed with some points, but overall I did like the episode.  Honestly, I think they could make an entire series on My Little Pony alone.  It would be awesome if they did more than one episode for each toy... because there is a lot to cover.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 22, 2019, 05:53:04 AM
Honestly, I think they could make an entire series on My Little Pony alone.  It would be awesome if they did more than one episode for each toy... because there is a lot to cover.

There is a He-Man documentary on Netflix so why not make one for MLP. Obviously they can pay for more than one per toy. There are also various others, like a documentary about Funko (it was mostly about how Funko got started).
Personally, I would like to see a doc that is less about jokes and more about info.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 22, 2019, 01:17:02 PM
It is very North America centric, which is not surprising as they’re focused a lot on the original development of the toys (and it was the same for the other episodes) but it would have been interesting to see some nirvana ponies or mention that G2 lasted way longer in Europe.

The problem here is I think that the originality between regions that trade circs created in the eighties and nineties didn't quite repeat in the later generations. If they aren't really giving G2 any time or attention, then there's not really much of an opening for anything not-US centric. Because the G4 line is so standardised, and G1 was so long ago, it's maybe hard to get around all the different production lines G1 created (and it would take up so much time to go through them all). The toy originated in the US. I think it's fine to be N. American centric in a documentary like this.

(Speaking as a UK person)


The G2 thing is also directly linked to the US failure. G2 wasn't a failure, but when it came out it was contentious and very hostile for a while. But the complete dismissal of it probably comes more from the quick withdrawal in the US than anything else.  I am also not a fan of the narrative that G1 happened, then ponies fell apart till they were rescued by G4, because I think G4 is the worst thing to happen to MLP (because of establishing the M6 so firmly and dumbing down the toyline to something repetitive), but it's sort of to be expected.

I think RaMC is universally popular in the actual fandom, but I also wonder if this is an eighties attitude to it, like Jem and people complaining that Stormer wore fishnets (sigh). That might be it. It wasn't considered 'girly' at the time. That said, though, it got the Firefly rerelease, so that seems to be an odd assumption too. The idea that it's not for girls is sexist anyway. Girls like adventure and plot and dark stuff too.


I haven't seen this yet but I am finding the comments here on it quite interesting though.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Valerie on November 22, 2019, 05:28:23 PM
Gorgeous collection photo and congratulations!


Thank you so much! :flow:



Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 23, 2019, 06:59:29 AM
So I watched it last night.

I consider myself a complete detail geek when it comes to MLP, but I don't have as many issues with this as some of the comments do above.

Yeah, nothing outside of N.America, but from my perspective as a UK person, that's natural. It's a US show, and a US toy, and they have 45 minutes in which to cover 30 years. It's not on them to branch out and cover the whole world. Over here in the UK MLP appeared on a documentary (very briefly) some years back (called I love Toys) and also the commercial for ponywear appeared (in the wrong year) in the show "I love 1983). In both cases there was much less time dedicated to MLP than this show. And a fair amount of mockery if I remember right (I think some of these may be on YT for anyone wanting to go check).

 It's also a lot better than the brony garbage documentary. So I am okay with it being just from the US POV. I've already seen what the UK managed for MLP.

Suggesting they talk to a Japanese Takara guy about Japanese MLP is the height of ridiculousness, honestly. Takara MLP lasted a very brief time, did not do very well, were not widely known about and are pretty irrelevant in the bigger picture of "we have 45 minutes to talk about MLP". This is not a documentary series about MLP, it's one episode in a bigger series about toys. Sometimes you have to take off the collector hat and remember that a bit IMO. It's a general audience nostalgia piece. It's not a collector's edition. Plus I would not want them adding in a note like, Rapunzel is worth a fortune, everyone! I'm glad that collector value and collector pricing was entirely absent from the whole thing.

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.

The suggestion that modern adult fans of MLP must be tied to G4. Clearly not true.

The G2 bashing...seems unnecessary, especially for Summer to say that it isn't a MLP. Remembering how contentious G2 was when it came out, it's unhelpful to feed that ideology. They could have mentioned G2 continued outside of the US here - again, I am guessing Summer would know that - but I got the feeling she was probably spliced for the bits that fit the theme of the documentary overall. But saying a previous gen of MLP isn't really MLP is kind of not cool.

The criticisms of RaMC...were not well supported really. I mean, I wasn't a fan of the TV series either, but you know, G1 animation was better than FIM. However...the only thing that really irked me was them saying something like all generations had animation but they never had an overall story. It sounded like it was feeding the idea of G2/Tales which is a Brony nonsense.

I think it went for humour. Maybe occasionally it overdid it but mostly I wasn't bothered so much by that.

I think it did what it set out to do, mostly. I didn't have huge expectations on it but it was interesting hearing the points of view on MLP in the distant past and how things came about. Especially the playset guy xD.

The overall story thing - they didn't mention backcard stories, so now I wonder who was responsible for those, as clearly not the toy design team. Obviously over here we had the comics which provided an overarching storyline and characterisations, plus a bunch of books that supported it so even though the TV series didn't really make a big splash here it didn't overly matter that much...and a lot of kids just made up their own worlds.

Also, congrats to the people whose collections happened in the titles :)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: CloudyGlow on November 23, 2019, 09:07:14 AM
I just watched 29 minutes of it and some facts were interesting but a lot of it was just obnoxious. The tone and the narrator make my skin crawl. Anyway, bailed on it before the bronies could show up.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Ponyfan on November 23, 2019, 10:51:39 AM

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.




FIM has always been hit or miss for me so I was a little annoyed by the way Faust was focused on so much but that's probably me personally. It seemed to me that they were implying that Faust "saved" MLP by creating this completely different series.

Ponyfan
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 23, 2019, 10:52:35 AM

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.




FIM has always been hit or miss for me so I was a little annoyed by the way Faust was focused on so much but that's probably me personally. It seemed to me that they were implying that Faust "saved" MLP by creating this completely different series.

Ponyfan

Yes. That.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Eighties_Otaku on November 23, 2019, 09:06:44 PM
If anyone ever has a Kickstarter for a documentary on MLP I'll be more than happy to fork over money!
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on November 24, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
If anyone ever has a Kickstarter for a documentary on MLP I'll be more than happy to fork over money!

I agree and would support this.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Cheshire_Raptor on November 26, 2019, 10:49:12 AM
I posted this in a thread I started about Wingless Firefly World's Smallest MLP because I did a search and this thread didn't come up, so if you don't mind (and sadly even if you do) I'm gonna just drop my thoughts here:

My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 :silly: :devious:

I was happy to find out why there were washers in the G1 ponies. They sort of pushed that joke to the limit however. And then toppled off the edge like a G1 with  no washers. *cough*

Feed the Beast was FREAKING ANNOYING.  :hmm:

Crack Pipe Pony!! I NEVER saw those before! And of course now I want them.

I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Yes, unpopular opinion I have is that if it doesn't looking like a pony in shape, it is not a pony. Bubble heads, huge eyes and making them into humans, no thanks.

And yes, I would have bought ponies that were marked like real life ponies. I was sort of drooling over that pure black one and brown and white one Bonnie was holding in the beginning.

I think it says something that these dolls lasted for YEARS without an actual story. Lauren, in my opinion didn't make things better. I haven't watched the FiM show at all because the ponies have bloated heads and there is only ONE of the originals.

Yeah, it's nice that Rainbow Dash was based on badass Firefly, Pinkie Pie based on perky Surprise, Rarity based on fashionista Sparkler, Fluttershy based on gentle Posey, Twilight Sparkle based on Twilight and of course AppleJack is the only one to remain, but got cowboyed up. Could have easily used all the originals and STILL had these other ponies.

Sort of surprised they didn't touch more on Meghan to be honest.

I LOVED seeing the collections at the end and know a few of you guys made it in there so congrats!!

Ponies Forever :lovey: :happy:
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on November 26, 2019, 11:11:29 AM

My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 :silly: :devious:


Re: cutie marks - the term never existed until G3. Therefore, it only canonically applies to G3 and G4 ponies.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 26, 2019, 12:10:41 PM
I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Preach. Their disdain of G2 merely comes from the fact they flopped in the US and probably because they were made by Kenner peeps.
The first version of G4 looked like G2 babies, downwards turned snout and all.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Cheshire_Raptor on November 26, 2019, 12:31:14 PM
So I have learned. But since I didn't actually start officially collecting MLP until 2010 -ish, I just use cutie mark. Although I may change to rump design as I like the sound. Or I may end up using something else entirely pulling it from my rumpass.  :P


My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 :silly: :devious:


Re: cutie marks - the term never existed until G3. Therefore, it only canonically applies to G3 and G4 ponies.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 26, 2019, 12:48:09 PM
I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Preach. Their disdain of G2 merely comes from the fact they flopped in the US and probably because they were made by Kenner peeps.
The first version of G4 looked like G2 babies, downwards turned snout and all.

I felt that Summer's interview was heavily edited.  She could have been relaying the community's initial reaction to them.  After all, she did have a g2 right there in her hands.  Would she have one if she hated them that much?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: PinkRosedust on November 26, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
I found it entertaining but have the same complaints that have been mentioned several times already. RaMC is still the best MLP cartoon ever in my eyes. I loved it as a kid and still love it. I don't recall being scared of any scenes from it, but oddly enough I do recall being scared of Hydia from the movie. :lol: I was surprised at the negative things being said about it.

It bothered me that they didn't mention G2 lasting longer outside the US but whatever.

I do wish they would have showed more of the early artwork/prototypes and such that was chillin in the background during several scenes but I get that there's only so much they can fit in one episode.

Overall I think it was pretty good as a show that is meant to appeal to a wider audience. It's cool that they interviewed several people who helped to create MLP and get it going way back then.


What is the white and pink pony with the clear wings?


That is Dallas from the toyline My Little Angel.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 27, 2019, 04:30:02 AM
After all, she did have a g2 right there in her hands.  Would she have one if she hated them that much?

I don't really care if she hates G2 or not. Everybody is entitled to their preferences.
The point is that G2 babies look like G4 in many ways and so do G3.5.
So in general I don't understand the "G2 are not this and that" mindset while G4 gets love. A lot of it has to do with the US marketing. I wonder if people would feel so strongly about G2 if they had a guy-approved hit TV show back then.

A lot of the interviews got cut as part of the editing of the show, I realize that. But the negative framing is what matters.
That's why I am not the biggest fan of TTTMU. It's not really a doc, it's more of an entertainment/opinion piece considering the makers are always going in biased (already evident in what brands get picked... girl toys are only ever 1/4 per season. She-Ra did not even get her own episode, she was crammed in with He-Man).
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 27, 2019, 07:59:44 AM
On the subject of Summer - I don't think they made her look great with the way her interview was cut. And she's absolutely allowed to hate G2 (I don't know if she does) but there needed to be more context. The idea that everyone hated G2 when it came out is not true. It's not even true in the US, where it lasted such a short amount of time. In collecting terms, there were people who hated them violently and people who accepted and liked them a lot. That's why the whole community blew up how it did. It was a much smaller community divided by whether or not they liked G2 ponies for a stupid amount of time - but G2 came out in 1997 and this was still violently going on in 1999.

AND THEN even when G2 had gone from the US stores, there were people over there who complained that the 'good g2s' were coming out only in Europe, and I remember shipping a few Silverswirls stateside, as well as trading a Hip Holly I picked up as a double in France in summer 1999.

Obviously that's more complicated and nuanced than the show suggested because it implied nobody ever bought or wanted them - but it's actually not true. Probably the US sales were not what Hasbro wanted, so they pulled them, but if they had been a total disaster, they would not have continued in other regions, where they were successful. It's a whitewash of the real G2 story...

So even to say the fandom didn't consider them real MLP is incorrect. There were some who felt that way. But there were also a good number who didn't.

BUT The toys that made us isn't really a toy documentary show so much as entertainment, as has been said. It's for a generic audience and trying to pick on nostalgia, not inform the collector (that said I was interested by the early production stuff because we don't know any of that for the UK line and why decisions were made/ponies were created, probably never will, either).

I don't have a problem with it overall except the over-emphasis on Lauren Faust and child-Lauren's interpretation of ponies. I actually did wonder if child lauren's letter "I want bubbles why aren't you selling her any more" has any relationship to us getting the m6 over and over and hating it. I mean, you didn't get all of the range, Lauren? Sorry about that, but a lot of us a: could not have afforded to do that anyway and were lucky to get ONE from a line and b: often didn't get the one we really wanted because of distribution fail. Did we write to Hasbro to moan about it? No, because the range G1 had meant choice and alternatives available.

Something G4 doesn't have...

And yeah, I had ponies I desperately wanted and never saw - mostly because Hasbro UK put them in our books but then never sold them here - but by ten years old I had also accepted that sometimes you don't get what you want all the time, and that's not a reason to subject every kid to the same pony over and over again until you do.

I may be overthinking the inclusion of that letter, but it does seem like a validation of G4's mane 6 policy.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 27, 2019, 09:21:51 AM
Oh, I wasn't trying to say Summer wasn't allowed to dislike G2.  It's just that she was holding one in her hand when she was talking about G2.  It just made me think that some editing happened that didn't give her complete thoughts on the subject.  I also think that a lot more interviews would have to happen for them to convey the full story of G2.

An A&E Documentary might be more nuanced and intriguing.   :)

Or as suggested before, we could do our own.

Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 27, 2019, 12:01:06 PM
Oh, I wasn't trying to say Summer wasn't allowed to dislike G2.  It's just that she was holding one in her hand when she was talking about G2.  It just made me think that some editing happened that didn't give her complete thoughts on the subject.  I also think that a lot more interviews would have to happen for them to convey the full story of G2.

An A&E Documentary might be more nuanced and intriguing.   :)

Or as suggested before, we could do our own.



Maybe it's G2 that we really need a fan documentary on. We certainly have enough experts lurking around these parts, and it would help to put the record straight.

Pity YT is messing up so much with its categories.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Carrehz on November 27, 2019, 01:42:39 PM
I'm 300000% in favour of a G2 documentary. G1 and G4 have had their fair share of documentaries (idk about G3?)... It's about time G2 got a turn. :P
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 27, 2019, 03:27:44 PM
Not sure if I'll watch this or not, though I might at least check out the scene with Lauren's letter as I like that she's a fan who got to do her own version (I know that she's not the first, but I love when that happens) - though it probably would have fitted in better on a G4 documentary or a brony documentary.

It would be good for G2 to get a documentary, so if anyone here does it, I wish them look on it (I respect and like the look of G2, but I wouldn't be much help.)

What I'd love to happen is if there was a documentary that covered all generations, and was fair to all of them, showing they all had merits, and a place in the toyline and the fandom.  The bronies should still be included and discussed, as they are part of the fandom in general (regardless of how many of them see it like this), but focus on the whole fandom, and the ways we ultimately unite - basically don't hype the bronies up, and don't act like they were the first time MLP had adult male fans, but don't ignore them either.

I just feel like all generations should get praise, and be able to clear up some misconceptions about them, and making it clear that as good as G4 is (in my and other's opinion) it did not "save the franchise" by "doing something different" - it used the formula of the previous generations in one (regardless of whether it meant to.)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 27, 2019, 03:43:39 PM
Yeah, I think it was the overarching narrative aspect.

To be honest I didn't/am not able to properly understand that because I didn't grow up in the US and don't know how things worked over there. I do know there were backcard stories, though. Some books. And for a while the animation, although it stopped and started.

Because we had the comics here, we had that overarching narrative aspect, although it was also highly fluid, introducing and retiring ponies as they came out while keeping some of the same locations and introducing some new ones (like Tropical Isle etc) when necessary.

I think the bronies have had far too much of the media attention, to be honest. All generations, yes. Bronies, no. Documentaries about the ponies/toyline and not about the fanbases would be a nice change.

Also without Lauren talking about G1 would be nice. She is absolutely allowed to talk about G4, she is basically it's mother, but let's not have her as the opinion on G1 stuff any more. If there needs to be opinion on G1, let's spend more time with the people who worked on G1's animation, either writing or acting or whatever.

 Just an idea...


Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 27, 2019, 04:04:13 PM
For those confused, I deleted my question about storylines, because misremembered the topic as having Arena memebers saying "We didn't need a storyline back in the day!" as it were, but the closest I found were people in the documentary saying that pre-G4 had no story.  So I got that wrong, sorry about that.

I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

I guess it would be a nice change to focus on the actual toyline/franchise and not the fans though.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 28, 2019, 05:35:57 AM
I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

Personally, I am just so bored of the MLP fandom getting split into "oldhead, pink-loving pony mommies" and bronies. As if new fans can't like G1-3 and old fans can't like G4. Blah. I wish we could move on.

Female Transformers fans did get ZERO representation in the TF episode. She-Ra fans weren't even allowed to talk in the He-Man ep. So why bronies? Because pop culture gives a damn about them but female fans of something traditionally male are always just "shrieking fangirls".
Maybe it's time for female fans to segregate and give us a silly fan-name. I have always championed "Transisters", "G.I. Janes" and "He-Man-Shes" :bateyes:
Doesn't sound whack at all.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 28, 2019, 06:03:17 AM
Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned. ;)

The way I feel about the brony publicity thing is that it's worn, over, done with.

I have some issues with the pink loving mummy old gen stereotype as well - I won't argue with the 'old' in context, but as a kid I hated pink, abseiled my ponies out of windows and had them fighting zombies, and I don't have or want kids. I felt a bit like the documentary comments about RaMC imagined fragile little darlings in the eighties...I never saw it in the eighties, but I would have loved it for sure since my ponies were far more concerned with rescuing each other from zombie overlords than they were having tea with flower fairies.

I think the problem is as Zapper says, these indentured stereotypes. And that isn't all on the G4 community, but what has happened in my view is that any other kind of MLP fan is no longer recognised. Summer was on the documentary because she wrote a book or two about them - it never mentioned there that she was a pony fan, only that Lauren Faust (the creator of G4) was, if I remember right. Which would mean the only 'fan opinion' the show consulted - according to them - was coincidentally (as they point out) the creator of G4. Which has to be wrong on so many levels it would be better not to talk to any fans at all.

I am not actually bothered about fans in general being included on TV shows because every fan has a different experience and nobody's view is more valid than anyone else's about what makes the collectable special. But the brony thing is the ONLY voice that is ever really given time and space like this in pony terms.

It's as though there's a belief that the first ever male pony fans happened in G4 - well, they didn't. It's as though MLP didn't have adult fans until G4. Well, they did. It's as though G4 created a MLP following - well, it both did and it didn't, depending on your angle, but it didn't invent the idea of a MLP fan community.

And it has had more than enough air time already. I understand that not all bronies are bad people, or crazy, rude, memeish etc, but that's the public face bronyism has also given the world. No attempt in any of these documentaries have tried to mediate that image, either.

I would like to see a documentary that completely ignores their existence for another reason, too. FIM was not created to randomly esnare young males into watching a show for little girls. It was created to get little girls (and boys) watching MLP, buying toys, wanting merchandise and so on and so forth. Instead of looking at that angle of it, though, the documentary mostly focused on the adult fanbase...once more reinforcing the idea that that is the 'target' audience for some reason.

So yeah. Enough already with the brony rubbish.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 28, 2019, 08:41:31 AM

Personally, I am just so bored of the MLP fandom getting split into "oldhead, pink-loving pony mommies" and bronies. As if new fans can't like G1-3 and old fans can't like G4. Blah. I wish we could move on.
I've never felt that bronies and non-bronies should be separated really.  Ultimately the only thing that separates them is whether or not they view themselves as "bronies" - the whole "you don't have to be a brony to like ponies" thing.  Basically, we can be bronies or not, it's our choice personally.  That's how I think it should go (this is not arguing, mostly agreeing and explaining view on it - just in case it comes out wrong.)

My reasoning for having all fans included was to show that we really aren't that different, a brony or a non-brony can like as much of the franchise as they choose to.  So yeah, a way of moving on, and actually having the kind of "harmony" that the ponies would want us to have (if they were real.)

I definitely don't think bronies should be the only voice of the fans, and I get it, they've been shown a lot, but I'd like us (me and other bronies) to be shown as "part of the fandom" - a subsection, if you like, at the very least, rather than being a separate entity, because I don't really see us as one in the end - we all love ponies (and those that don't respect other generations might be fading?  It doesn't seem as obnoxious as it used to be, or maybe I just don't look at them anymore?  I know it can still happen.)

And yeah, definitely don't imply the bronies or any adults are the target audience, but it's at least good to show, in my opinion, that all generations are well done enough to appeal to all ages (something that some bronies fail to do, and I agree it's annoying.)

So yeah, if it was a fandom based documentary at least, don't overhype the bronies, but don't leave us out either - show us as part of the fandom, or a segment of it or whatever.  Focus on what unites us, not what separates us.

So yeah. Enough already with the brony rubbish.
Ouch!  Right in the nostalgia...  :silly:  That aside, I do get what you're saying.  (Please let me know if I am going out of hand with this - I don't want to get another thread closed.)
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Khoufu on November 28, 2019, 08:45:21 AM
My two minor gripes:
-"Every generation had a TV show." Well G2 didn't, and was G3 on TV or just a bunch of specials?
-"G2 was dead by 199X." I forgot what year they said, but they didn't mention that it had any amount of success outside of the US. That said, I would have liked to see some mention of Nirvana or tying back to the Transformers episode when they mentioned Hasbro trading rights with Takara.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 28, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
People have different connitations for the term brony, so I am prefacing this post with the disclaimer that when I use it here I am not talking about the integrated people or people who are G4 fans who choose to use the term to identify themselves. I'm talking about the bad bronies.

Although there was a pony community long before G4, there is an attitude from the FIM fandom (aspects of it anyway) that MLP was first meaningful when G4 happened. I wouldn't care about that at all if that wasn't the narrative also being fed into documentaries and shows and articles - that this is a "good thing", when for a lot of us it hasn't been that way at all.

 I am fed up with the saccharin back-slapping affirmation type documentary inserts that basically laugh about it all and how brony is a great/random/lol/unexpected phenomenon. All this media attention is like giving sweets to a naughty child to keep them quiet. It makes the behaviour continue, because there is both affirmation and reward - here in the form of media attention.

Basically bronies have had too much attention telling them that  their convictions are right and their behaviour is acceptable. Older generation fans (especially G3 fans) have seen their favourites denigrated for brony amusement with no chance to put a different perspective out there. G2 has been basically erased from existence for 'not having a tv show.' It's not only had a permanent impact on how people outside view My Little Pony, but also how they view us as fans of MLP.

Obviously all of the negative reflects on the good G4 fans (guys and girls) as well. So long as media give attention and support to the brony concept without acknowledging that they're not representative of everyone, the whole perception will remain screwed.

I don't like FIM but I don't hate G4 and I even have maybe 80 brushables (mostly not M6). But G4 fandom is also always in terms of the show, which then leads to backdating comparisons to what earlier shows did, which leads to the rubbish about G2 = Tales and so on and so forth, completely ignoring that MLP was made originally in a time when cartoons existed to sell toys, not when franchises centred on a TV show that also had toys (a more recent trend). According to this modern retcon of what a pony fan is, I'm not a pony fan any more. I'm just someone who likes pony toys. For me that's all levels of wrong, because MLP began with toys.

On the subject of the divide - that also wasn't made here. When G4 came out, everything was super inclusive. The divide was made on the other side of the wall, when the compulsive need to trash everything and everyone pre-G4 began to happen. None of us ever wanted a divide, but protecting spaces from spammy and abusive trolls became imperative else this community and others would have ceased to exist.

Though I still maintain fandom and fan opinion is not needed in a documentary about a toy.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Cheshire_Raptor on November 28, 2019, 11:50:18 AM
It's as though there's a belief that the first ever male pony fans happened in G4 - well, they didn't. It's as though MLP didn't have adult fans until G4. Well, they did. It's as though G4 created a MLP following - well, it both did and it didn't, depending on your angle, but it didn't invent the idea of a MLP fan community.

I thought they were talking about fans of the SHOW not the actual ponies themselves. They made a big deal about adult men liking cartoons.

Because apparently they know nothing of anime....which isn't just cartoons.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Leave a Whisper on November 28, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
For those confused, I deleted my question about storylines, because misremembered the topic as having Arena memebers saying "We didn't need a storyline back in the day!" as it were, but the closest I found were people in the documentary saying that pre-G4 had no story.  So I got that wrong, sorry about that.

I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

I guess it would be a nice change to focus on the actual toyline/franchise and not the fans though.

No. They should not. One as Taffeta pointed out, they have had enough media attention.

Two, a documentary should focus on the toys, toons, merch, history, creators and designers, not ANY of the fans.

It'd be just as stupid and nonsensical as a Rock n Roll documentary focusing more on groupies, roadies and super fans instead of the band's history and the music they made.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 28, 2019, 01:47:52 PM
I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned. ;)

That's what boggles my mind, actually! Female FiM fans feeling excluded from bronies within their own fandom, so they had to split themselves again into male FiM fan/female FiM fan. Instead of just going by "fan" or something more provocative: ORIGINAL TARGET AUDIENCE :lol:
Proof that "bro-ny" merely refers to ones sex and isn't needed because male G1-G3 fans have always existed and will continue to exist. Male G4 fans are not better or cooler than them. Not even by 20% :lol:
I am female and I like Star Wars and Transformers. So what.

Which brings me to a cool female Star Wars fandom name! XX-Wing! Let's make it happen. Then male Star Wars fans will scramble to call themselves "He-woks" or something like that. In fact... I'll call them all He-woks from this day forth.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 28, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? :( Disappointed...
Quote

Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned. ;)

That's what boggles my mind, actually! Female FiM fans feeling excluded from bronies within their own fandom, so they had to split themselves again into male FiM fan/female FiM fan. Instead of just going by "fan" or something more provocative: ORIGINAL TARGET AUDIENCE :lol:
Proof that "bro-ny" merely refers to ones sex and isn't needed because male G1-G3 fans have always existed and will continue to exist. Male G4 fans are not better or cooler than them. Not even by 20% :lol:

 :iconclap: :iconclap:

I remember chatting regularly with some upstanding male fans in the distant dusty past...guys like Steamer who are long since gone from the community but one of the nicest people you'd ever see. And there are plenty of old school guy pony fans still around, like Al etc.

The issue is when something shady goes down on the other side of the fence and it then reflects negatively on those guys - who have been pony fans before 'brony', who aren't crazy or creepy, and who then end up feeling even more uncomfortable or judged for their fandom. I remember this being discussed at least once in the not so distant past. It makes me think for all brony has affected me as a fan of MLP, it's got to be tons worse for the original pony guys.

Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Zapper on November 28, 2019, 01:59:37 PM
I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? :( Disappointed...

Yeah, I need to be more positive on here. That's why I have become a MLP:PL advocate :lol: Thinking of our fan-name right now... mhh, we need to separate ourselves from the Bronies that hate PL. Maybe pro-lifers? Nah, too dark and political. Lifesavers?
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 28, 2019, 02:11:09 PM
I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? :( Disappointed...

Yeah, I need to be more positive on here. That's why I have become a MLP:PL advocate :lol: Thinking of our fan-name right now... mhh, we need to separate ourselves from the Bronies that hate PL. Maybe pro-lifers? Nah, too dark and political. Lifesavers?

Suggest the Splat Squad.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 28, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
People have different connitations for the term brony, so I am prefacing this post with the disclaimer that when I use it here I am not talking about the integrated people or people who are G4 fans who choose to use the term to identify themselves. I'm talking about the bad bronies.
Understandable.

Although there was a pony community long before G4, there is an attitude from the FIM fandom (aspects of it anyway) that MLP was first meaningful when G4 happened. I wouldn't care about that at all if that wasn't the narrative also being fed into documentaries and shows and articles - that this is a "good thing", when for a lot of us it hasn't been that way at all.
Agree completely, it was always meaningful.  Even as someone who for the most part saw G4 first, I could tell when I saw them that the previous generations have meaning.  I definitely don't agree with official places acting like it was a fact that G4 was the one that made it good or meaningful, or whatever - it was always this to different people in different ways, and for me all generations have meaning.

Quote
I am fed up with the saccharin back-slapping affirmation type documentary inserts that basically laugh about it all and how brony is a great/random/lol/unexpected phenomenon. All this media attention is like giving sweets to a naughty child to keep them quiet. It makes the behaviour continue, because there is both affirmation and reward - here in the form of media attention.
I see what you're getting at about the naughty child metaphor - I also feel that bronies shouldn't really be treated as a phenomenon because we (me and other bronies) aren't really.  Going off topic, but I'm cool with being self-mocking about it, but at the same time we don't need to be treated as "stand out" as we seem to be - another reason, in my opinion to see them (or at least the good ones) as part of the fandom, albeit one with its own name, rather than a separate fandom (which is why I'd include them in a fandom-documentary.)

Basically bronies have had too much attention telling them that  their convictions are right and their behaviour is acceptable. Older generation fans (especially G3 fans) have seen their favourites denigrated for brony amusement with no chance to put a different perspective out there. G2 has been basically erased from existence for 'not having a tv show.' It's not only had a permanent impact on how people outside view My Little Pony, but also how they view us as fans of MLP.
G3 is my favorite generation, and the opinion is shared by my closest friend in the fandom (by his own choice, he is not a brony) so I am very aware of how the bad bronies degrade the early generations, often in very unfair ways (G3 seems to get treated the worst - which makes no sense to me, as the cartoon was ultimately not that different to G4 format wise... oh yeah, they've likely never actually watched G3, based on the things they get wrong.)  I agree that they shouldn't be given the idea that this behavior is correct, and an opportunity for the earlier gens to get some deserved praise is something that should definitely happen (something that I am working on in at least two ways.)

Obviously all of the negative reflects on the good G4 fans (guys and girls) as well. So long as media give attention and support to the brony concept without acknowledging that they're not representative of everyone, the whole perception will remain screwed.
Very good point!  This is pretty much what I was going for in a sense.

I don't like FIM but I don't hate G4 and I even have maybe 80 brushables (mostly not M6). But G4 fandom is also always in terms of the show, which then leads to backdating comparisons to what earlier shows did, which leads to the rubbish about G2 = Tales and so on and so forth, completely ignoring that MLP was made originally in a time when cartoons existed to sell toys, not when franchises centred on a TV show that also had toys (a more recent trend). According to this modern retcon of what a pony fan is, I'm not a pony fan any more. I'm just someone who likes pony toys. For me that's all levels of wrong, because MLP began with toys.
I respect your opinion on My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and although I'm not an expert on how the whole "made to sell toys"/"happened to have toys" changed and evolved (because I never really knew about the whole "made to sell toys" thing until I was older), but if this idea is what these kind of bronies think, then I agree they are wrong to do so, especially if implies that some fans don't count as fans.  Although I tend to think of animations first, I will always respect and love the toyline, as well as respect the fact that that My Little Pony is, first and foremost, a toyline.


On the subject of the divide - that also wasn't made here. When G4 came out, everything was super inclusive. The divide was made on the other side of the wall, when the compulsive need to trash everything and everyone pre-G4 began to happen. None of us ever wanted a divide, but protecting spaces from spammy and abusive trolls became imperative else this community and others would have ceased to exist.
Understandable.  I do get that most of it was the fault of the bad bronies.  I've always just... wanted to repair the divide however it was created.  I remember spending a lot of time around 2013 responding to as many hate comments towards the older generations as I could (as well as hate towards G4 from the pre-generation fans, as it did happen) - this was especially the case on G3 videos, as I was really getting into G3 back then, and like we've both said, it was getting a lot of hate.  This may or may not sound silly to someone who didn't experience it, but this actually depressed me for a while - it got to me that I was surrounding myself with all this hate directed at things that I love, being directed by fans of them to each other.  I know I intentionally put myself in the middle of all that hate, because I really wanted to defend the generations and their fans, but it ended up getting to me.

Though I still maintain fandom and fan opinion is not needed in a documentary about a toy.

a documentary should focus on the toys, toons, merch, history, creators and designers, not ANY of the fans.

It'd be just as stupid and nonsensical as a Rock n Roll documentary focusing more on groupies, roadies and super fans instead of the band's history and the music they made.
Understandable.  Essentially why I changed my idea to being an actual fandom documentary, rather than about the subject.  Respect if you don't like the idea, it was just an idea to show that we can still unite, or something.  I still get what was said in Taffeta's post I just responded too.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 29, 2019, 07:46:52 AM
@MJSNEIFER - if all bronies had your mindset, there would never have been a community separation. And it sucks you had to deal with the hostility as well.

I would like to think if there was a documentary about the 'fandom' of MLP, it would ignore the 'bronies' - both the word and the concept of it being a male revolution - and actually go and talk to people from all different corners of the world who are of all different ages, genders, demographics, races, etc. And instead of labelling them as 'fans of x generation' or 'bronies' or whatever, just talk to them about what THEY like about MLP. NOt what they dislike about OTHER versions of MLP, but just what got THEM into collecting.

So instead of having a single voiced wave of "phenomenon brony woot" publicity, it actually shows the diversity of pony fans from all generations without priveleging any one as being somehow special.

I am generally against fan documentaries, though...I can ask the views of pony fans by posting a thing on here, but things on TV tend to go from being opinion to canonised because they appeared on a TV show. I would rather have the TV shows talking about the creation, production, and promotion, and other stuff like LAW says. We don't need fan voices in everything - fan voices ruined G4 and probably took the TV show in a direction away from the kids, despite them being the target audience.

The difference with G1 is that the target audience wasn't competing with an adult fanbase trying to define what MLP was. The target audience of G1 basically grew up into the adult collectors of G1 that exist now.

The BBC even reported on Ponycon this year. There are pictures of all generations of pony in the photos, but look at who it was they were interviewing, and look at the content of the interview. This is not a negative piece by any means - but it definitely still feeds into that same narrow focus of what MLP fans are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50029501

Time to change the whole mindset and remove these labels and start again just with 'fan'.

Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Leave a Whisper on November 29, 2019, 08:14:49 AM
@MJSNEIFER - if all bronies had your mindset, there would never have been a community separation. And it sucks you had to deal with the hostility as well.

I would like to think if there was a documentary about the 'fandom' of MLP, it would ignore the 'bronies' - both the word and the concept of it being a male revolution - and actually go and talk to people from all different corners of the world who are of all different ages, genders, demographics, races, etc. And instead of labelling them as 'fans of x generation' or 'bronies' or whatever, just talk to them about what THEY like about MLP. NOt what they dislike about OTHER versions of MLP, but just what got THEM into collecting.

So instead of having a single voiced wave of "phenomenon brony woot" publicity, it actually shows the diversity of pony fans from all generations without priveleging any one as being somehow special.

I am generally against fan documentaries, though...I can ask the views of pony fans by posting a thing on here, but things on TV tend to go from being opinion to canonised because they appeared on a TV show. I would rather have the TV shows talking about the creation, production, and promotion, and other stuff like LAW says. We don't need fan voices in everything - fan voices ruined G4 and probably took the TV show in a direction away from the kids, despite them being the target audience.

The difference with G1 is that the target audience wasn't competing with an adult fanbase trying to define what MLP was. The target audience of G1 basically grew up into the adult collectors of G1 that exist now.

The BBC even reported on Ponycon this year. There are pictures of all generations of pony in the photos, but look at who it was they were interviewing, and look at the content of the interview. This is not a negative piece by any means - but it definitely still feeds into that same narrow focus of what MLP fans are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50029501

Time to change the whole mindset and remove these labels and start again just with 'fan'.


 :iconclap:

Exactly. And again, why should FiM fans be the Only MLP fans worth interviewing? They aren't the first boys to like a girl franchise, nor are they the last.

Where are the interviews for the G2 and G3 fans? Why are they less worthy?  How bout we give THEM a chance to talk.

Where are the interviews for girl fans of boy stuff? G.I Joe, Transformers, TMNT?

What about interviews for boys who like Jem, Rainbowbrite or Care Bears?

Sorry MJ, but I find their attitude strictly inclusive.

I don't care what people like. Being a fan of anything doesn't make anyone special and worthy of media attention. That smacks of ego-stroking.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Eternia on November 29, 2019, 03:44:11 PM
FEED THE BEAST

XD
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: brightberry on November 29, 2019, 06:35:38 PM
I’ve always thought that the media featuring Bronies was making fun of them a little?  In kind of a “look at this nut” way.  Even in this episode, it didn’t make being a Brony look cool.  At best, it made some Bronies feel better about themselves but I don’t think it improved the rest of the world’s view of MLP fans.  :(



I guess what I’m trying to say is that the reason why the media covers MLP these days is because they want shots of men wearing pony costumes and talking about My Little Pony.   I don't think they do it to flatter the fans, they’re just looking for eyeballs.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on November 30, 2019, 12:54:49 AM
I’ve always thought that the media featuring Bronies was making fun of them a little?  In kind of a “look at this nut” way.  Even in this episode, it didn’t make being a Brony look cool.  At best, it made some Bronies feel better about themselves but I don’t think it improved the rest of the world’s view of MLP fans.  :(



I guess what I’m trying to say is that the reason why the media covers MLP these days is because they want shots of men wearing pony costumes and talking about My Little Pony.   I don't think they do it to flatter the fans, they’re just looking for eyeballs.

I agree. Maybe the media covers bronies more because they are of greater interest to a wider audience. I think it just tingles that curiosity about cross-dressing that many people still seem to have, which unfortunately I don't think really comes from a good place. It's simply less usual to see men in pastel stretch fabric than women, so people look more. Unfortunately i don't think a lot of this coverage has much to do with ponies. Also on a slightly different note I don't think it would ever occur to most of the audience who engaged with this show that the community might be divided by poor behaviour or that a rich and varied culture has emerged etc.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Taffeta on November 30, 2019, 03:41:22 AM
Yeah, I can see this too. A combination of lurid fascination from the media and attention seeking from the fanbase :/.

MLP has never really been respected...I am forgetting which documentary it was over here, maybe I love 1983, where they included a commercial (which was great) and then failed to talk at all about the toy and instead showed a pony...possibly a TAF...being yanked off screen before going to some other subject.

It's another reason why fandom should not really be part of anything about MLP. None of it really ends up positively...

It's like when a tabloid here goes nuts about "your pony could be worth hundreds of pounds!" after someone saw a Rapunzel sell, gets all the information about MLP and about collecting it wrong, suggests all MLP are valuable and that the readers may have this expensive pony in their loft, even though she wasn't sold here so it's really unlikely. Or it's a Nirvana pony, even more unlikely. Which feeds the greedy dealers with bald peachies saying "it's a real MLP and they're collectable you know."

...They're all parts of the same kind of problem really, just from different angles. Sensationalism sells, truth doesn't.
Title: Re: The Toys That Made Us
Post by: Khoufu on December 05, 2019, 09:03:02 AM
I think that a small segment about the fans as a place in any documentary that is about something that people are meant to be fans of. For example, Beatlemania/fanatic screaming fangirls and hippies have a place in a Beatles documentary. Not necessarily a big place, but a 2-5 minute segment about the fans seems fine. After all, songs and toys and such are made for people to enjoy, so it seems ok to talk about how people enjoyed them.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal