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This is a bit off topic but I have no idea where else to post it.
On May 18th I inquired about getting a ring made in a certain size from an Etsy seller. She let me know how much extra time it would take and how to order it. After trying on rings somewhere else we thought the one she had in stock would be the right size so on May 19th I ordered it and left a note letting her know the size was right after all.
The ring arrived on May 27th and was way too big, like probably 2+ sizes too big, so I messaged the seller to ask her advice on what to do. The band is very thin so I didn't know if it would need to be resized in a certain way. She let me know a few resizing restrictions and suggested I take it to a local jeweler and see what they say. She told me to let her know how it goes. At this point I was planning to have to pay to ship it back to her, pay for her to resize it, and pay for shipping again. Annoying but whatever, its 100% our bad for not being able to figure out my ring size. I obviously had nothing against the seller or the ring and was just annoyed at myself.
On the 30th I wore the ring to work for the first time (on the wrong finger, so it wouldn't fall off) because I was excited to show off our engagement a bit. At lunch the ring fell about 1-2 inches onto a table with very little force and one of the lapis lazuli stones immediately cracked and broke off completely. My fiance was gutted and I was just pissed. A few hours later, once we got off work and had calmed down, I sent a message to the seller letting her know what happened, expressing my disappointment, and asking to just return it. They accept returns in their shop but even if they didn't, clearly the ring is defective. It would've faced the same amount of fall/force if I put it on a post in a ring dish like I had planned to do.
Its been 4 days and the seller has completely ignored my message. At first I was giving her the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was just a single unstable stone, as none of the others cracked, and didn't have any hard feelings. But now I'm getting really upset about this terrible customer service. Since she's refused to respond to my message its now past her listed "ship back within 7 days" return policy. She clearly has internet access because she's posted memes/pet pictures on Facebook every single day since I messaged her. (And I know for sure its her real FB account because I found her Etsy shop through FB.)
Pictures can be seen here (https://imgur.com/a/JFHQxXH) since I don't want to deal with resizing them to put in the post itself. I posted photos of the unbroken ring here (http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,391766.0.html).
At this point I don't know what to do. Should I just open a case with Etsy at this point? Message her again and see if she'll stop ignoring me?
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I think you should be done with offering her the benefit of the doubt. She's clearly ignoring you, or at the very least, ignoring her shop- who else is she ignoring if there is a potential there is a quality issue with the materials?
Granted, it sounds like a hell of time with the ring size, but there is something wrong with the product if a stone just breaks. With the frustration that you have already experienced I would encourage you to just be done with it, open a case and move on.
NOTE: I have no patience right now, so my advice will reflect that xP
Planning a wedding can be stressful enough without adding to it.
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I agree with Sweet Daes. I would just go ahead and open a case.
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Thanks guys. That's what I was leaning towards but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable. If it was cheaper costumer jewelry maybe I'd be more forgiving but this ring design is $100 to $400 in most stones... they shouldn't break like this.
Looking through Etsy I can only find one way to open a case for an item that arrived - "The order I received does not match its description". There's a dropdown of selections with "Damaged" but all the others are just about being sent the wrong item. It says stuff like "Upload photos that show the difference between the item and its description". Is this the right way to open the case or should I be looking somewhere else? I don't think I've ever had to file a case on Etsy before.
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I've never used Etsy, so I'll let someone who has experience with the site answer that question. Sorry.
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To me it's not defective, as the item hit the floor, even smoothly, you're never safe for somethin' to broke.
After, it's the seller fault on the ring size I guess, so you can base your claim on the wrong size making it difficult to wear and causing the fall who broke it.
I'll just open a case to ask for return/remplacement or refund? As the vendor is not correct to it's end.
Great luck with that!
Edit:
"The order I received does not match its description" - you can so claim the wrong size?
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I would open a case. Also as a side note, you want to choose an engagement ring that is practical for everyday wear. I found this the hard way with a beautiful ring that was very comfy to wear but has a bumpy part that would snag jumpers/loose clothes. I ended up sending it back to he jeweller to have her alter it slightly. Still not good that the ring broke and wasn’t fit for purpose but it looks like it was never be meant to be an everyday rings anyway.
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To me it's not defective, as the item hit the floor, even smoothly, you're never safe for somethin' to broke.
After, it's the seller fault on the ring size I guess, so you can base your claim on the wrong size making it difficult to wear and causing the fall who broke it.
I'll just open a case to ask for return/remplacement or refund? As the vendor is not correct to it's end.
Great luck with that!
Edit:
"The order I received does not match its description" - you can so claim the wrong size?
To answer your first part, it did NOT hit the floor. It hit a table. It feel a maximum of two (2) inches. A ring being sold for about $100 (or much, much more for the other stone types) should not break because it falls 2 inches. Normal use of your hands is much more intense than such a short drop. And I did NOT wear it on the finger it falls straight off of; I wore it on the wrong finger so it wouldn't fall. I clearly mentioned that. It was in my hand when it fell 1-2 inches (which I think is about 2.5 to 5 cm) onto the table.
For the second part, NO! Goodness! I have very clearly taken responsibility for the size being wrong. That is 100% my fault. But the ring broke in less than a week from a very tiny drop onto a table. That is unacceptable, period. That is my complaint and that is why I'm not sure how to file the claim. I can't find a way to report it for anything other than "not as described" so I'm asking if that section is the right place to file a claim or if there's another way to do so, which I clearly stated.
Please stop making assumptions about me that are all addressed in the very first post.
I would open a case. Also as a side note, you want to choose an engagement ring that is practical for everyday wear. I found this the hard way with a beautiful ring that was very comfy to wear but has a bumpy part that would snag jumpers/loose clothes. I ended up sending it back to he jeweller to have her alter it slightly. Still not good that the ring broke and wasn’t fit for purpose but it looks like it was never be meant to be an everyday rings anyway.
Actually the artist advertises the style with other stones as engagement rings. That plus the fact that the description says nothing about not being suitable for daily wear have me the impression it would work. I figured it would be somewhat of a pain given the design so I barely even wore it (taking it off to wash my hands/shower, eat, wear gloves, do housework, etc) but I never expected this. Its such a shame ):
Luckily I've found another more experienced team of jewelers that are very up front about everything and what ideas might not suit a daily ring.
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:( How disappointing...
Unfortunately I never had to make a return on Etsy so I don't know the best selection.
Just a thought. In general -- are lapis lazuli stones fragile at all? Is it possible she used poor quality or defective stones? (Just seeing if that might be something to help build your case).
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I would open a case. Also as a side note, you want to choose an engagement ring that is practical for everyday wear. I found this the hard way with a beautiful ring that was very comfy to wear but has a bumpy part that would snag jumpers/loose clothes. I ended up sending it back to he jeweller to have her alter it slightly. Still not good that the ring broke and wasn’t fit for purpose but it looks like it was never be meant to be an everyday rings anyway.
I agree with getting a ring that's practical. Although you may want one that's unique, just keep in mind that if something happens, you're not covered (unless you buy insurance specifically for it) and it may not be replaceable. My husband bought me one at a store that you can find anywhere with a lifetime guarantee if a stone falls out or if I need it resized or cleaned, it'll be done for free (which is good, because I have had it resized a couple times, as I have changed meds and my fingers have shrunk).
My husband's ring, on the other hand, was unique and he lost it right away. So we had to buy a new one (a cheaper one), which he lost again, so he's on his third... (He needs to stop wearing his ring jetskiing).
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:( How disappointing...
Unfortunately I never had to make a return on Etsy so I don't know the best selection.
Just a thought. In general -- are lapis lazuli stones fragile at all? Is it possible she used poor quality or defective stones? (Just seeing if that might be something to help build your case).
According to the Mohs Scale (https://www.nps.gov/articles/images/Mohs_Scale2_1.jpg?maxwidth=800&autorotate=false), they are supposed to be between 5 or 6. I am by no means a gemologist or mineralogist, but in my VERY VERY VERY VERY limited experience with them they are pretty fragile from the start, especially if the stones are cut thin and have flaws that go unnoticed (cracks, pock marks, etc) which will affect structural integrity. Unlike diamonds (that are a 10 on the Mohs scale), their structure is much more likely to be compromised by flaws in the stone, or just being cut in general.
You can read a bit more here about the stone. (https://www.gemdat.org/gem-2330.html)
The fact that this was advertised as an engagement ring is head-tilting, especially since the stones are set- lapis does not naturally "grow" in a "flower" form. The petals for the lotus blossom had to be cut and set that way. Being that it's shards versus a chunk like a regular rock (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Lapis-lazuli_hg.jpg/1024px-Lapis-lazuli_hg.jpg) makes the lapis one of the worst types of rock to use for a ring with that sort of setting. Lapis is really delicate and can be affected by even makeup/moisturizing chemicals; can be scratched/marred pretty easily; and heat can affect them- especially if the stone isn't 100% undyed lapis where there is a wax coating to protect the dyed surface. It's not a stone that is recommend to wear on your hands...
The thing is, not very many people know this. I learned this from working at my local Renaissance Festival. I met a gentleman that made his own jewelry, and he knew his rocks. If something was fragile then he'd tell you. It just adds to the idea that the seller is ignorant of her product, or doesn't care to inform her customers as it may deter them from buying.
Please excuse me- I am rambling. I'm frustrated for the OP's situation.
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According to the Mohs Scale (https://www.nps.gov/articles/images/Mohs_Scale2_1.jpg?maxwidth=800&autorotate=false), they are supposed to be between 5 or 6. I am by no means a gemologist or mineralogist, but in my VERY VERY VERY VERY limited experience with them they are pretty fragile from the start, especially if the stones are cut thin and have flaws that go unnoticed (cracks, pock marks, etc) which will affect structural integrity. Unlike diamonds (that are a 10 on the Mohs scale), their structure is much more likely to be compromised by flaws in the stone, or just being cut in general.
You can read a bit more here about the stone. (https://www.gemdat.org/gem-2330.html)
The fact that this was advertised as an engagement ring is head-tilting, especially since the stones are set- lapis does not naturally "grow" in a "flower" form. The petals for the lotus blossom had to be cut and set that way. Being that it's shards versus a chunk like a regular rock (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Lapis-lazuli_hg.jpg/1024px-Lapis-lazuli_hg.jpg) makes the lapis one of the worst types of rock to use for a ring with that sort of setting. Lapis is really delicate and can be affected by even makeup/moisturizing chemicals; can be scratched/marred pretty easily; and heat can affect them- especially if the stone isn't 100% undyed lapis where there is a wax coating to protect the dyed surface. It's not a stone that is recommend to wear on your hands...
The thing is, not very many people know this. I learned this from working at my local Renaissance Festival. I met a gentleman that made his own jewelry, and he knew his rocks. If something was fragile then he'd tell you. It just adds to the idea that the seller is ignorant of her product, or doesn't care to inform her customers as it may deter them from buying.
Please excuse me- I am rambling. I'm frustrated for the OP's situation.
I'm frustrated for her too :(
If something was that fragile, then it really should of been mentioned.
As you said, being labeled as an engagement ring, you'd expect someone to wear it constantly.. and it should be able to handle just general wear and tear (like a gentle 1" fall onto a table.)
-_-
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Hey Taxel my friend, my advice to you is to not go through the Etsy system to file your case, but instead go through paypal if you used paypal. If you used paypal this is the best way to get this resolved as item is not as described. If you paid some other way then I really have no idea how things will go with the Etsy system as they are quite different in how they do refunds. Next time you have a ring made. Get some duct tape. Fold it over and make a ring out of it for your finger that you can slip on and off the way you want it to. Mail that to your ring maker.
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Oh wow, I had no idea lapis was so fragile! We chose it because it looks somewhat like a blue rose in that setting. I'll admit I was a bit worried when the ring arrived and it looked like the stones were glued in but I figured the artist knew what she was doing... I even mentioned in the message on May 27th that we were using it as an engagement ring so I'd be wearing it a lot. If she knew lapis was too fragile for that she could've mentioned it then and I could've returned it before the ring broke. I have a feeling she doesn't know much about the stones because the descriptions are basically all metaphysical things. There's nothing about quality, hardness, etc.
Unfortunately I didn't go through Paypal, Tula ): I didn't even think of it. I haven't wanted to give PP access to my new bank account but I suppose I'll finally have to bite the bullet and just do it with how much I'll be buying on Etsy soon.
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I hope this gets sorted out in your favour. I agree with what others are saying that an everyday ring should be made for everyday wear and not with a fragile design or stone. What I'm curious about is what's the actual size of the ring? Did you take it to a jewellery store to have the ring sized? If you were pretty sure the size should work for you, did she size the ring right when she listed it? I was sized wrong for a ring once and I know it could just be a mistake but it'd be nice to know for sure. If you wanted any future ring sizing advice, when I would size a person's finger and they said a size felt good, I'd always have them try on the smaller size to be sure. I'd keep going until it feels tight. Also, make sure you're using sizing rings a similar thickness to the band of the ring you're planning to get, it actually makes a difference. Good luck.
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Did you use a credit card Taxel?
I would assume maybe you could do a charge back if going through Etsy doesn't work.... :/ I mean that's just ridiculous it broke it that short of time and that you weren't even rough on it.
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I hope this gets sorted out in your favour. I agree with what others are saying that an everyday ring should be made for everyday wear and not with a fragile design or stone. What I'm curious about is what's the actual size of the ring? Did you take it to a jewellery store to have the ring sized? If you were pretty sure the size should work for you, did she size the ring right when she listed it? I was sized wrong for a ring once and I know it could just be a mistake but it'd be nice to know for sure. If you wanted any future ring sizing advice, when I would size a person's finger and they said a size felt good, I'd always have them try on the smaller size to be sure. I'd keep going until it feels tight. Also, make sure you're using sizing rings a similar thickness to the band of the ring you're planning to get, it actually makes a difference. Good luck.
The ring is listed as a size 7. I never got a chance to take it to a jeweler before it broke but sizing it against a ring sizer I have, 7 seems accurate. I feel fairly confident its the listed size (or at least close), we just have no clue how to size our fingers. Originally I sized myself with the ring sizer as a 5.5 but just didn't feel confident I knew what I was doing/the ring sizer was even accurate (I don't know where I got it). So we went to Walmart to try on rings because we didn't want to deal with pressure from jewelry stores... >.> I definitely screwed it up. Playing with the ring sizer again, 5.5 seems way too small and 7 just a tad big. So I still have no clue!
We'll just deal with the pressure of an in-person jeweler and get recommendations from the jeweler we're going to order from before we order the replacement. The replacement band won't be as thin so that should help too.
Did you use a credit card Taxel?
I would assume maybe you could do a charge back if going through Etsy doesn't work.... :/ I mean that's just ridiculous it broke it that short of time and that you weren't even rough on it.
Nope, just my fiance's debit card :/ If it comes down to it we'll call his bank (Wells Fargo) and see what they have to say.
I went ahead and filed a case under "Not as described - Damaged" since its now been a week without a response. I don't want to lose the option to open a case because she's ignoring me. Fingers crossed.
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I went ahead and filed a case under "Not as described - Damaged" since its now been a week without a response. I don't want to lose the option to open a case because she's ignoring me. Fingers crossed.
I am so, so sorry. This really sucks.
It may not mean much but I'm rootin for you :3
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Thank you Sweet Daes, I appreciate it <3
Unfortunately I don't have any good news to share. Less than 12 hours after opening the case the artist replied. We didn't have time to read it before work so we just got a chance to look and wow... she either has so many open cases/general issues that she can't keep them straight or she's blatantly lying trying to get Etsy to side with her. (She's replying like she's talking to Etsy, not me, which is just more proof she has no idea what she's doing...)
Her response:
"Hi there
I emailed a pre paid shipping label the day after receiving word about the defects. I offered to fix the issue with the ring or refund the cost of the ring eventhough the buyer bought the wrong size to start with based on the mistake of a jeweler.
What should I do beyond this remedy offer? Im a bit confused as to why a case was opened when I offered plenty of optimal solutions.
Thank you for working with me!
Kristan"
Which is just... completely false in every single way. She never offered anything and I never asked, with regards to the sizing. All I did in that message was gush over how much I love the ring and ask her advice on how to go about getting it resized (like what process she recommends, certain products, etc). The only thing she did was to recommend I talk to a local jeweler and tell them heat can't be used to resize the ring. That's all! I even double checked my emails and there's no return label or emails from her in any way.
And that's not even the complaint!!! She completely ignored that the ring broke from a 1-2 inch fall. I even made sure to clarify what exactly happened, that I wore the ring on the wrong finger and when it fell I was holding it in my hands. The size has absolutely no bearing on this issue!
I already replied (with the help of both my fiance and a roommate so its unemotional and sticks to the facts) but gosh... I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone :/
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I'm sorry you're going through this!
I am afraid the damage isn't something you can hold the seller responsible for. If it happened during transit maybe, but you can't prove it fell just that height. And if the stone is fragile to begin with (and the seller doesn't mention it is a very strong stone in the ad).... you could have done your research before buying.
It's a difficult case :(.
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I'm sorry you're going through this!
I am afraid the damage isn't something you can hold the seller responsible for. If it happened during transit maybe, but you can't prove it fell just that height. And if the stone is fragile to begin with (and the seller doesn't mention it is a very strong stone in the ad).... you could have done your research before buying.
It's a difficult case :(.
I disagree completely. It was advertised as a engagement ring, and should be able to stand up to general wear and tear that an engagement ring would go through. NO ring should break from a 1-2 inch fall. That's poor design and if it was THAT fragile then the seller should of made that clear.
The seller needs to resolve the case by giving the refund that she supposedly offered. *eyeroll*
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I agree. As part of the service he or she should definitely do so. I meant I'm not sure if the seller will be hold responsible for something like this by Etsy. The ring was received in good order, just wrong size. I don't know if guarantee is part of their responsibility.
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I really, really doubt Etsy would side with the seller over something like this. The ring was obviously either defective (a damage stone), which no amount of research can prevent, and/or should never have been sold in the first place, since it sounds like lapis is far too soft to ever be put into a ring anyways. As a buyer I probably should have researched that first but its the seller's responsibility to know the most basic things about what they're selling - like what stones shouldn't ever be used in rings and what stones shouldn't be used in the lotus design.
But anyways, I finally got a real response! They're still clinging to the lie that they already sent a return label to try and look good to Etsy, I guess, but at least they did actually send one this time.
"My apologies for the confusion I caused here. I will copy and paste this into all channels.
I sent a return label to you via email. We cannot attach files in Etsy convo system. That one has expired now so I will send a new one via email to you. Please let me know if it is received or not either here, in convo or directly from the email I send."
Fingers crossed its smooth sailing from here.
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Sounds good! Glad it worked out well for you.
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As someone who works in a jewelry store and does sizing on many occasions, this kind of piece is something that most jewelers would not try to size. Any time you size a ring you almost always need to bring heat into the equation. And Lapis is not a great choice for long term durable ring wear, and I do not think it can take the kind of heat that sizing requires. For engagement stones you really want a 9 or 10 on the scale which includes Sapphires, Rubies, Diamonds and a few other "man made" gemstones. Anything lower may get damaged and will not look as sparkly over time (trust me I've seen a morganite ring after a week).
I agree that the seller is handling the customer service part terribly, but this design just does not have the long term wearability required of an engagement ring. They should have never advertised it as an engagement ring, but being in the business you would not believe the rings I've seen come in as "Engagement Rings".
Wherever you choose your next ring please remember that a ring is a like a car, it needs to be serviced every now and again. You need to have it cleaned, checked and possibly repaired. Etsy is great for short term, but who will size your ring if you have a baby someday? How will you get it fixed if it breaks? Even if a jewelry store may be daunting, its one of the only industries where they are required to service the ring for its lifetime, so definitely take advantage of it :D
If you have ANY questions about metals, rings, sizing, stone hardness, Anything related to engagement ring shopping please send me a Pm! There is just so much that goes into it that you can really only get from an inperson jewelr.
Also in the future when you get sized be sure they are sizing you with a smaller band sizer vs something thick. The thinner the band the smaller it needs to be and vice versa. So a thick size 6 and a thin size 6 will fit very differently on your finger.
*Or if you need a good custom engagement ring let me know ;)
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New update: the artist continues to be super shady!!!
Yesterday morning we got up early and dropped off the ring at the post office. I took videos of the entire process just in case. And now I see the case gets another comment, once again full of lies.
"What would it take to close this case? I agree to fulfil the reqest of the buyer and would sincerely appreciate the case being closed if the buyer is satisfied with the agreement to repair the item."
I seriously can't even believe this anymore. How can someone be so downright nasty and terrible?! My fiance had the thought that maybe she keeps talking "to Etsy" to be passive aggressive by ignoring me. Which honestly wouldn't surprise me given her constant lies. I just don't even know anymore.
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AUGH what a mess. Keep up the fight for the refund!
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New update: the artist continues to be super shady!!!
"What would it take to close this case? I agree to fulfil the reqest of the buyer and would sincerely appreciate the case being closed if the buyer is satisfied with the agreement to repair the item."
OMG.
It's like SUCK IT UP and accept the return and give a full refund. You have to take losses as a seller. It's just how it goes.
u_u What an idiotic seller.
Remind me never to buy things on Etsy without using paypal. yikes...
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She commented on the case three times in 20 minutes and escalated the case, claiming she never offered a refund. I'm at my wits end. Somehow the case has changed to "Your ideal resolution is to return the item for repair". This WAS NOT chosen by me, ever! When I created the case I wanted a return.
I'm calling Etsy the second I wake up. And Wells Fargo right after if we have to. This is complete insanity.
NEVER shop from Gemologies/Kristan. I don't know if I'm allowed to give her full name but she's very easy to find... What a horrible, nasty seller she is. I'm completely appalled. I've made more online purchases than I care to count over the years and I've never dealt with such an awful, vindictive seller. This is the worst experience I've ever had buying anything.
Does anyone have links to reputable places talking about lapis not being suitable for use in rings? I've been trying to find some through Google but I have no idea where to even look. All the sites I've found so far are just unhelpful pseuedoscience or don't mention what lapis shouldn't be used in. (Although I've yet to find any that mention it being used in rings at all.)
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Maybe this is useful? http://lapislazuli.jewelry/lapis-lazuli-care-and-cleaning/
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Except in one of her messages to "Etsy" (you) she MENTIONED the refund.
"Hi there
I emailed a pre paid shipping label the day after receiving word about the defects. I offered to fix the issue with the ring or refund the cost of the ring the buyer bought the wrong size to start with based on the mistake of a jeweler. ..... "
Just keep at this. Remind Etsy this when you call them.
wait wait wait. reread this. :huh: Your CASE title was changed from refund to repair? How does that even happen?
I feel like at this point everything is irrelevant because for whatever reason (size/breakage) she has a paper trail saying she'd refund it.
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I read the link Nella sent and it mentions that lapis should not be soaked in water, as it would ruin the stone. I should think a gemologist as your Etsy seller calls herself should know this and would therefore not make a ring with this stone. It sounds as if this stone should only be made into earrings or a necklace at most, since the stone is so soft. And the seller should have made their buyers aware that everyday wear and tear can ruin the stone.
Please keep us updated, as I hope Etsy can help you!
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I quoted that message right back to her, banditpony, and she changed her tune after tossing up some more excuses that I didn't bother to read. Suddenly she "stands by her offer to refund" despite fighting it so hard and insisting she never offered that in the first place.
But whatever. Its over. She finally went through with the refund and the case is closed. Once the refund processes I'll have my fiance help me write up an extremely honest but unemotional review.
Thank you guys for all your advice and support. Its always appreciated <3
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I'm glad that it got sorted out finally. And I hope you find a better ring in the near future.
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I'm glad this mess is finally over.
I hope whatever ring you find next is even more wonderful than the first. <3