The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: insep.lovebirds on February 18, 2013, 09:42:51 AM
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I bought a pony to an arena member (can i post the username ?), i pay through paypal by "gift" as she asked me to avoid her "fees". The parcel was send with tracking number on novembre 02 th of 2012 and i never received it.
I make a claim to my french post office but as i'm not the "sender" i can't do anythin then i asked to the seller to make a claim but she told me that i have to wait 6 months to have an answer from her post office. Futhermore i cannot make a paypal claim because i send money by "gift".
I also aked her a partial refund but it seems that she does'nt want. I think i'm not guilty and i loose a lot of money (400 euros) then i wanted to have your advise if you already have this problem ?
Thanks for your help.
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I am sorry you are having trouble with a member. If you wish you can PM Ringlets or I to help further assist you, if you are not wanting to post the members ID at this point in time.
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I hope the mods can help - that's quite a bit of money to lose out on! :( Paying by gift is so very risky because Paypal doesn't allow for a refund to be filed...
*pony hugs*
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Well first of all if it was sent with tracking, what does the tracking say?
If it is marked delivered then the post office/seller may not be at fault. You might be the victim of mail theft. This is a crime so you can get the police involved and file with post that way.
Also if it flags as delivered I can see why your seller doesn't want to do a partial refund. Maybe if you give them copies of the police report/mail theft report they will be more willing to compromise.
If it doesn't say delivered then you might want to wait a bit maybe its just held up somewhere.
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From where does the parcel came?
There are a few countires when you ship from there the tracking isn't tarckable in France... that is very difficult.
Maybe you can contact the seller again and she can open a claim at her poct office?
When it was send with a real trackingnumbershe can open a claim - the post will search for the parcel and when it is lost the seller will get a refund from the post.
This process can take a while - because the post service from teh other country will stay in touch with the local post system - but it can take a while until they get reply...
I hope you both can work this out.
But please keep also in mind - when it was an oversea package that it can also take that long - becase it was send around the holiday time. There are always a few parcels that can take much longer then expected.
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That's terrible that a package got lost!
I would give it some time (and I mean months) the U.S. post office will make you wait quite a while (I forget how long) before you can even make a claim. I think the reason is that so VERY VERY often packages get misplaced in transit and then turn up again. I've had a box go missing for 3 months only to finally turn up.
WHat does the tracking say? I assume it was sent by registered mail?
It's occurrences like this that make me very very very nervous about sending anything abroad anymore.
I sure hope your package turns up soon and you can work something out with the seller- hugs to both of you.
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Oh man, that's awful! :( Never send a Paypal order as a gift, especially one with a payment that big!
I really hope the post is just late and your pony shows up!
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Was it a US seller? A while back one of the mods on here told me that they USPS can use the customs number for tracing as it is scanned in BUT they cant do anything unless the package has been missing for several months. No idea if this is true or not though
also - maybe the mail is very slow? It too 6-8 wees for a package I sent to reach Germany and a few years ago I sent a package to hathorcat and it took several months for it to arrive >_<
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I always get worried when I send someone a payment as a gift. I worry that I will not get my side, or that pay pal will put a hold onto my account. I hope the pony does show up!
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Was it a US seller? A while back one of the mods on here told me that they USPS can use the customs number for tracing as it is scanned in BUT they cant do anything unless the package has been missing for several months. No idea if this is true or not though
I had to make a claim a number of years ago- and I seem to remember the post office allowing you to make a claim pretty quickly- but they won't actually DO anything until 2 months (or something like that) have gone by- given the frequency with which international packages get delayed in transit.
Very frustrating.
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I think you should be entitled to at least half of the payment you made.
By her asking you to send as a gift she went above and beyond doing that and should be willing to assist you in the matter. If you had not sent as a gift you would have had the funds back into your account by now.
You are Both out on this
If she refunds half to you then when / if the pony shows up for you at some point you can pay it back to her
or if the pony is returned to her or her Countries Postal system Refunds her for the Loss she can pay you the other half.
If you are having trouble I think it would be a good idea to have a Mod intermediate.
I don't think this member whats to be known as a such a seller in the Community which is whats going to happen when you post her name in this thread and she's put on the bad trader List
Good Luck with this, I sincerely believe she should refund you at least half at this time. :hug:
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Hello everyone!
I haven't seen this thread until now so I haven't been able to reply.
I am in the middle of this since I am not the owner of the pony, I sold the pony to insep.lovebirds but the pony was not mine, so the money is not mine either.
Insep.lovebirds and I have communication so there are no bad issues between us... I mention this since I read her post and it seems there might be a lack of communication but there isn't.
Firstly I have to say that the money was NOT sent as gift. If it was sent by gift, I didn't get it as gift. You know sometimes you want to send as gift and paypal doesn't give you the possibility to (I have tried and sometimes it works, sometimes not, I think it might have to do with the type of account or with the country where the paypal has been created). I got the installments from her and I had to pay the fees from paypal as a normal transaction, and of course I can prove this as everything is stated there. Insep.lovebirds, I told you in the first installment that the payment went through normally, with me paying the fees as usual.
When I posted the parcel I even paid (on my own behalf) the express service since I thought insep.lovebirds would love to have it earlier... and how on earth could we imagine that this parcel would stay in Paris... :(
Yes, the parcel arrived (from Spain to France) in just a pair of days to France, and it says it is in Paris. Tracking number says it is there.
Insep.Lovebirds is from France, so that is, the parcel is in the destination country.
She claimed to the French post and they told her I had to claim from here, which I have done, but since the parcel IS in Paris and it's final destination, French post has their hands on the package. It does NOT take six months, what I said is that I had six months to claim, but I already did.
I am still waiting for a reply from the Spanish post to see if they have sorted something out or if they have any other information. I think it's totally unusual that something like this has happened.
We even agreed (insep and I) to send the parcel at the beginning of November to avoid Christmas time and all that fuzz with postal service... and as said, the package got to France in just a couple of days.
So, the thing is, I have claimed and I am waiting for a reply.
And, as many of you might know me and purchased/swapped/traded, you know I know what I am doing and I am reliable, and again, I am in the middle of this and I am totally gutted about this since it's not even one of the ponies I send (and I send SEVERAL ponies a month and have never had problems in all these years) and now I help someone to sell their ponies and this happens :/ boo.
I personally think something has happened in Paris, and Insep.lovebirds told me she had spoken or read about other parcels from other people getting stuck in Paris, so that means there is a problem in that office, or whatever the place all those packages are. This is something that should have been mentioned too. And, I have never said my friend is not going to refund anything, the thing is we had to claim first and that is what we have done and are waiting.
Edited for spelling.
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Glad you checked in on this post Snow
and added more information to the thread.
It's too late for any sort of refund to be requested from pay pal as it's the end of February and this has been going on for awhile now.
What are the thoughts from the party you sold the pony for...
The pony will probably eventually come back to Spain or be pushed through to insepid in France.
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Oh gosh Snow I am so glad you checked in, but I can only imagine the stress you are feeling since this was not even your pony to sell and you didn't keep the money yourself. What a horrible situation to be in. The fact though that you have proof it was sent is very good, and you know where it is hung up...sadly none of us can control our packages once they leave. Very good you can do a claim on it though. I am very sorry you both are going through this. It will be a huge blessing if you can get the pony back at least to possibly resend it using another method...or issue a full refund if your party is willing.
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Oh my goodness - how awful for everyone involved in this :( t\hank you for posting here to clear things up a bit Snow :hug: Its obviously neither the buyer or sellers fault here so I'm glad there is a claim with the post office since there is proof of posting , where the item is stuck etc. I do think that the pony will reach one or other of you eventually - it cant stay at the Paris depot forever.. but its taken a really long time already and I can understand why everyone is upset right now. Since you both are having communication I'm sure something can be worked out until the pony arrives at one of the destinations. Perhaps either a full refund (if the PO has given Snow a full refund) or half refund since its not anyones fault but the PO and its not fair for buyer or seller to be out of all their money (the money refunded can be paid again once the pony arrives safely)
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I repeat that i have send money as "gift" throught paypal but She had fees because it doesn't work if you don't have money on your paypal balance (a friend told me this now). Futhermore i had try to make a claim with paypal before the 60 days end and paypal reply me that as it wad gift i cannot get the money back. I'm not lying, i want to insist on this.
I wanted to have your opinion about asking a refund (partial or not). Ok she send it by tracking and the tracking stop when the parcels arrived in france so i don't know anything else.
I'm not here to make a trial to silversnow (that's why i haven't put her name). I just want to know what you advised me to do.
:-)
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You shouldn't have to do anything. According to the communication with silversnow they have launched a claim with the post office and they are awaiting the outcome of that investigation before they settle this issue with you. Really that's the best thing to do. Wait and see if the post can find the package and either forward it on to you or return to sender to her. I don't think it's unwarranted for her to wait on the outcome of the investigation before issuing you a full or partial refund. You just aren't at that point yet. Communication is open and she is working on her end to resolve the situation to a mutually beneficial place. I understand you are nervous because if you did send as a gift there is no way to force a return. But when you send as a gift you are accepting that risk. If the parcel is not found and a claim is denied you should revisit the loss to try and even it out, but until that happens or they need anything from you it's best to wait and keep in contact.
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I repeat that i have send money as "gift" throught paypal but She had fees because it doesn't work if you don't have money on your paypal balance (a friend told me this now). Futhermore i had try to make a claim with paypal before the 60 days end and paypal reply me that as it wad gift i cannot get the money back. I'm not lying, i want to insist on this.
I totally don't think anyone thinks you are lying at all. Your seller is doing everything she can as she mentioned, I agree with Sarahlace...its a good idea to allow the time for these proceedures to take place and claims to be filed and an outcome to result. Then you will have a better picture of what the next step should be reguarding refund. Thats the best advice you will get is to wait right now as mentioned...until you are at the refund/partial refund position. That may not even be necessary if they can find your package and get it to you. :)
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I don't think anyone thinks anyone is lying-
I know what happened- you sent it as a gift, but if you try and pay with a credit card, you have to either pay the fee yourself, or paypal charges the fee anyway.
But I don't think a paypal refund would be appropriate yet anyway- sounds like there was tracking, and the package is in Paris and held up for some reason.
You know- I do remember this happening to me once and it turned out that the local post office (it was the Royal mail in that case) had decided for whatever crazy reason to slap on a customs charge. They had never left a slip with the recipient so she hadn't even known.
I would follow up again with the Paris post office (using the tracking number) and see if that is not the case? Otherwise- at least wait and see what happens. Sounds like one way or another it will work out since the package was insured.
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This!
My greek Ladybird was held in customs from the 30th Dec until the 12th of Jan before any movement because of her declared value. If she is held up in a customs area and you have the tracking details could you not phone them and ask them for details using the number? If the pony has been scanned in their end with no further movement it stands to reason she is either lost, stolen, or still there. I'm sure that customs should be contactable (from my experiences anyway!). If she had a declared value it would make sense her stay may be longer whilst customs do goodness knows what to the package!
I don't think anyone thinks anyone is lying-
I know what happened- you sent it as a gift, but if you try and pay with a credit card, you have to either pay the fee yourself, or paypal charges the fee anyway.
But I don't think a paypal refund would be appropriate yet anyway- sounds like there was tracking, and the package is in Paris and held up for some reason.
You know- I do remember this happening to me once and it turned out that the local post office (it was the Royal mail in that case) had decided for whatever crazy reason to slap on a customs charge. They had never left a slip with the recipient so she hadn't even known.
I would follow up again with the Paris post office (using the tracking number) and see if that is not the case? Otherwise- at least wait and see what happens. Sounds like one way or another it will work out since the package was insured.
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Yes I also think that parcel has to be "somewhere", and if the last movement was in Paris, it has to be there. If not, I am also in the belief that it will arrive to either Insep or to back to me... I am taking contact with the postal services this weekend to see if they can tell me something else but I am being patient, I mean I try to stay positive and I'm sure either way, we will work this out, with or without the pony. Thanks everyone for reading.
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Just to add a little information which might help? I had a similar situation occur during the same time period with a package that was sent from the USA on Nov 28th, and arrived in Paris, France on Dec 4th (if memory recalls correctly). The package contained several G1 ponies. Luckily, I shipped the package via USPS Priority Mail. Although expensive, it was still insured.
The package showed as "delivered" at the Paris post office. However, the customer stated that they never received it at their apartment. I then filed an investigation with the post office; and they launched a joint investigation with the French postal service. The French postal service confirmed that the package was received by the destination post office but was never delivered to the customer? (To date, I am still not sure if this is because the customer needed to pick up the package and pay customs fees as anything over $50 USD requires fees to be paid by the recipient???) Anyway.... After the investigation was concluded, either myself or the recipient could file a claim for the funds (including the cost of the ponies and the shipping fees). The USPS strongly suggested that the recipient file the claim; however, Paypal determined that the funds should be refunded to the recipient and that I should file the claim... So, we did just that and after an additional 30 days had past I was able to recoup the funds from the claim process.
One more thing.... The French postal service requires 18 business/working days to complete an investigation.
Again, I am not sure how much help this is, but I had a similar experience during approximately the same time period. Hopefully, this might help provide a little bit of additional information that might help you to recoup the funds. My own experience with this situation has made me *very* grateful (beyond words) that I shipped the items via Priority Mail instead of standard post.
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Hi everybody, any news there : i still never had recieved the parcel and no news and no refund from Silversnow... i cannot be happy with her now !
I think i will post negative feedback here, the post dated from february and no more news since ...
For me it's close i won't make anymore transaction out of ebay, it's the second time here that i never received the pony..
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I'm so sorry to hear this! I was really hoping for a good update and the pony arriving after all this time :cry:
When did you last talk to SilverSnow? did she ever let you know how she got on with contacting the post office? :what: she did say that she would try and work things out with you with or without the pony - I hope that is still going to happen.
You can leave feedback for this transaction - if you and Snow do work things out in the end, then you can always ask to revise feedback later if you wish
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Hello.
I said I would take contact as soon as I would get news from the post office, which I have just gotten THIS WEEK.
Of course I have tried to do my best, but after making the claim to the post office, they have taken all their time to reply. Since February, no news. And I have checked the tracking on my own. That's why, obviously, no refund has been issued nor several messages as up til now, since I had nothing new, unfortunately, to say.
So, for them, the package is lost and this case, for them, is closed.
I have to let the OWNER of the pony this, since I got the letter and I haven't spoken to her yet, to let her know about the situation.
I received a message from insep.lovebirds, and in the same inbox folder I have a negative feedback in my 100 % 8 years Arena account. Not to mention almost 1000 on Ebay. I do believe I have always been a honest seller and I have always helped during this case. I don't think I deserve a negative at all. Not only because I am not the owner of the pony, but because I have done all my best and the tracking is there, the package is there, somewhere in Paris, and I did my part completely. It's not that I have failed in any of my commitments as a seller. So believe me when I tell you that this negative has frustrated me very much and I am very unhappy about this. So, it's obvious that the "I think I will post negative feedback" was not a thought at all.
I will speak to the owner of the pony this afternoon, if she can talk today. And let you know. I'm in the middle of this, and now I have been attacked where it hurts me most.
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How frustrating to hear! :( I just don't understand... if you are paying for tracking, signature on delivery, etc., why don't the post -people bother to DELIVER it?
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because France has a horrid mail system. If you have taken a look at what you CAN NOT send to France, many sellers will not ship to this location. Toys being one thing since what is only allowed is: Toys not made wholly of wood. This would include your plastic ponies.
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because France has a horrid mail system. If you have taken a look at what you CAN NOT send to France, many sellers will not ship to this location. Toys being one thing since what is only allowed is: Toys not made wholly of wood. This would include your plastic ponies.
Ponies are not Toys :) but Vintage Collectible
or Used Horse Figure
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I don't think it was right to leave negative feedback for Silversnow. It isn't her pony, it isn't her money, and if the person whose money it is won't give a refund, what is Silversnow supposed to do about it? Why should she, who did everything right here, be out 400 Euros for a pony that isn't even hers?
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I agree negative wasn't warranted. Of course they were awaiting the outcome of the postal investigation before they issue any kind of refund. They are protecting themselves and you. They want all parties to be made whole again. They don't want you to be out the money. They don't want to be out the money themselves. It's not negative service. They cannot help how long the investigation takes.
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Just read this whole thing... I too agree that Snow doesn't deserve negative feedback... her hands are tied, seriously, the middle man can't solve problems on one end or the other... if ANYTHING, a neutral explaining her position as middle man... but a negative? ...I really don't think she did anything wrong here...
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I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.
Not like the friend can do much.
HOWEVER. Never in a million years would I try and claim my money back from a seller who could provide a tracking number. If the parcel is sent, then it is my problem. Period.
Seller shouldn't be out their pony/money.
I appreciate Ebay says differently, but this is not Ebay and we are quick enough to disagree with their policies when they are not in our favour.
Call the French postal system and give them hell. Give your local post office hell. You have the proof the they've lost the parcel, so make them pay up.
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I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.
I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome.
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself
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Just to clearify, yet again, I didn't get the payments (installments) as gifts. I did have to pay all those fees, so yes, those 45 days could have been "used".
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I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.
I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome.
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself
Protect yourself from what though? If you sold a $400 pony and sent it tracked would you expect to refund it if it didn't make it?
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Where the payments sent as a gift or not?
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Where the payments sent as a gift or not?
I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.
I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome.
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself
Protect yourself from what though? If you sold a $400 pony and sent it tracked would you expect to refund it if it didn't make it?
Personally, I have shared the cost of a pony that was lost before, we were both out. The US Postal Service priority shipping now covers for damage, loss, or theft up to a certain value and if it's not for the full value I put the extra on it at my expense. But to be Honest I now do offer two shipping options with a disclaimer so if a buyer wants an item shipped unprotected there is a clear understanding of responsibility.
Post Merge: May 13, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Where the payments sent as a gift or not?
Insepid felt she did send as a gift option as she stated in her first post.
In conversations with her some time when this started to become a problem she expressed her frustration with not being able to file for the pay pal buyer protection because of this.
Hopefully she can shed some light on that.
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This is really sad, but I do completely agree with Sebby6 and Shelti. Using a middle man isn't always best, it's not fair for the middle man that they get blamed, but again, it is NOT fair for the buyer either. I think the seller should make this right personally, go half and half pershaps, but something needs doing rather than just discussing this. Contact the PO definitely!
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I don't think it was right to leave negative feedback for Silversnow. It isn't her pony, it isn't her money, and if the person whose money it is won't give a refund, what is Silversnow supposed to do about it? Why should she, who did everything right here, be out 400 Euros for a pony that isn't even hers?
Regardless of it being her pony...she was the seller in this situation. So she still takes responsibility when things go wrong. She agreed to that when she agreed to sell the pony for her friend.
That being said, it's unfortunate that this situation happened. I think to be fair, the seller should refund half the payment. Split it in the middle that way no one is out the full 400 eur. And if the pony ever does arrive, the buyer should make it right and give the partial refund back.
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I had an item from Australia once that was really quick to arrive in the UK (like, 4 days or something) but then did nothing for two weeks!
In this case the seller was very good in contacting the PO here and in AUS to find out any information.
Perhaps Snow could send an email to the French postal system. I'm sure they will have translators since they operate with international packages. If not perhaps a French speaker could translate something for her since it should come from her as the sender of the item. It may be that given them more direct contact/poke/kick up the bum (:P) might prompt them to bother to look for the package properly in the sorting office in Paris.
And, as was said earlier, then Negative feedback can be revised when an agreement if reached between the two. Because I do agree as the seller - third party or otherwise - it comes down to her as an agent to try and reach an agreement between the owner and buyer of the pony :(
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Again, if the payments were sent as gift, I DID NOT receive them as gift. I indeed asked for it at the beginning, but did not get a single installment as a gift. I paid over 35 $ fee for getting her payments. Even if that was the case, payments were done in more than 45 days, so only one of the installments could have fullfilled the claim requirements.
Unfortunately, PitterPatter, I cannot contact French postal system, that's up to Insep. I can only make the claim, which I did, to the Spanish postal system, and they have said that since the package is not even in Spanish country, they can't do anything else. I will scan the document I got, and the refund of 43 € something they are issuing me.
So, yes, I am the seller. I was the one who committed to this. Right. I did all in my power. The pony arrived to destination. It's in Paris. Probably much closer to Insep than we know. And it left Spain in 3 days.
I even sent the pony "express" on my own expense, -not even at my friends expense- so that Insep wouldn't have to wait one more week for that. -I don't mind that, despite on what has happened-. But yet again, that was because I just wanted to make her happy when she got the pony earlier. Who would have known all this would happen.
I sent it tracked, signed for. I was not asked to ensure this pony at the price she was. That's why I get a refund from the post office of 40 something, and not more.
I have called (telephone call, no WhatsApp or messages that could be missunderstood) my friend, and she will refund this amount to Insep.
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I am very torn on my opinion in this situation. I can see both sides. A thid party sale seems to put both the buyer and the seller at a disadvantage. Its unfair for a buyer to not have a refund because someone else is involved and, its not a sellers responsibility to refund because the postal service lost something.
So, in my opinion, its quite important to be 100% accurate on a customs form, be willing to pay for insurance on your whole item, pay your vat/customs fees so if something goes missing you are going to get that money back. You may think you are saving money by not doing this step, but not only is it against the law to not declare the accurate price paid/value on a customs form...look what has happened now as this pony was seriously under insured. I cant help but feel that these requirements need to be made by both buyer and sellers. It would be good if the buyer says, "I must have this fully insured, sent with tracking, list the full insured amount and value on my customs form and insurance, please send this item registered." Its up to a buyer to make sure a seller does not get by with this, "send it as a gift thing." I realize that is not what happened here but it is not fair to any buyer to send a payment as a gift and it should not be required by any seller. Would it not be better if a seller asked a buyer about services to insure a good delivery? It doesn't seem fair they suffer for not asking for a certain service.
If you know this is a third party purchase, maybe the seller should keep the money until the item has proven to be delivered and when all is good then send the money to your original owner. I realize that puts the other person at a disadvantage should something get lost, but not really...if you do the right thing with forms then the insurance money goes to the original owner.
So, to me...there are two very strong sides to this and no one way is the right way on this deal. I feel for both of you, you both have a loss issue to deal with and its really sad this has gone this way.
I probably would have eaten half the loss, but thats just me.
Maybe my response will not be popular :lookround: and its certainly not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. As you see I can't take any sides as I feel the responsibility for this is 50/50. No side can be taken...as it was mistakes on both sides.
:heart:
I think its better to be 100% accurate on your forms. There is just no other way to do things. If a box is under valued insurance/customs wise its not good for either person involved.
I am sorry for both of you. Hugs :hug:
The buyer does have the right to request a refund and to leave the feedback they feel reflects their experience. This was a lot of money to lose and it would depend on how the whole transaction went down as to what deserved feedback should be.
This was updated for typos, reword to shorten and soften comments. Also to add the feedback thoughts instead of making a new post.
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Well said tulagirl
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Where the payments sent as a gift or not?
Apparently the buyer feels they were sent as a gift but the seller says no as she paid fees on the transaction. The thing is the buyer insists it was sent as a gift. Who knows.No one has proved this.
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I feel so badly for everyone involved. I'm trying to understand what happened though, as someone who has sold items on behalf of friends I may have imput but I don't know if I understand exactly what happened in the situation here.
1- the seller has contacted their postal service in Spain, has received the insurance money of 43 €. Spain's postal service has told the seller that since the package has left Spain and is IN the destination country there is nothing further they can do.
2- seller has proof of shipping with tracking. Tracking shows the package being in Paris (and the seller even upgraded the shipping to be faster at her expense)
3- the buyer sent over the total owed broken up into part payments. The buyer sent over the money using the gift option, however it was NOT received as a gift and the seller was charged paypal fees anyway.
my questions,
For the seller:
Have you forwarded a scan of the shipping receipt/documents to help your buyer file a claim through France's postal service?
Was 43 € all the pony was insured for? Was the pony insured at all? If yes, how much insurance coverage was purchased and why?
For the buyer:
Have you reported this package as lost through your postal service? You should be able to, as the tracking does show it being in your country before vanishing. I am unsure of how France's system works, but in many places a recipient can contact thier postal service and attempt a trace to locate and find parcels gone astray. If you don't have scans of all the receipts and paperwork, I'd ask for those and keep calling your postal service until you find someone at least willing to help you locate your parcel!
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If the tracking said the package was in my country somewhere you bet I'd be at the post office raising h*** with my tracking number.
Buyer: have you contacted your post office at all?
I feel like everything is still very unsettled so I think the negative was really premature.
I know how frustrating this can be but after reading this I feel that Snow did everything in her power to locate this pony. Now that it's in your country the rest maybe up to you.
I wish everyone luck in sorting this out for a happy ending on both sides.
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You can send a payment as a gift and still have fees when you send to a country with a different currency than yours. When you do this, there should be a box to tick giving the sender the option to pay the conversion fee. If this box isn't ticked, the receiver will pay the fees. I think that's what happened here.
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Thank you for everyone's opinion on the matter. But I am having a hard time reading through the long posts. Sorry :huh: It is truly making it hard.
The issue lies between Snow and in.sep.love.birds. I believe at this point a Mod needs to be contacted concerning your issues. Thank you.
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I can understand the position of Silversnow, but she's responsible too i think, even if she's an "intermediary" because she sell the pony to me. I'm not saying, she's disonnest but she has to be in my position too.
As i said, i had no money in my paypal balance when i send money as "gift", that's why she had fees, but the problem is not here anymore : the parcel is lost. I posted claim in my country and they didn't find anything beacuse it's the responsability of the sender.
So what can we do now ?
I was very patient but now it's enough.
I pay for a pony that i didn't have. The post office is guilty ok but i think that a refund (partial or not) will be fair, it will be good faith.
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Everything else aside, I'm burningly curious what pony's worth 400 euros!
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Everything else aside, I'm burningly curious what pony's worth 400 euros!
Nirvana most likely but I am guessing.
As i said, i had no money in my paypal balance when i send money as "gift", that's why she had fees, but the problem is not here anymore : the parcel is lost.
I don't understand what you mean. I make paypal payments all the time and I never have money in my paypal account and they are not considered gifts just because there is no money in my account. Gift is an option you have to pick before its sent as a gift. Just because you are making payments with no money in your account doesn't mean its a gift. I am confused.
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I agree. Do you mean it was taken direct from your bank? (An E-cheque?) If so that is NOT a gift option, and you would have had to select send as gift. If you didn't select send as gift andyyou sent payment direct from your bank, then you can contact your bank to request helpwith the matter x
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I think what she means is that she indeed sent the payment as a gift. If you send the payment as a gift without having money in your account, paypal will charge you a fee to get the money from another source like a credit card. It gives you the choice of either having YOU charged the fee or the one you are giving to charged the fee.
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I think the issue with Paypal fees has something to do with the country of the buyer and/or seller. Paypal does not work the same for accounts set up in every country. Many of the comments are from people who are used to US Paypal accounts, so your advice may not help someone with an account based in France or Spain.
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I sent it tracked, signed for. I was not asked to ensure this pony at the price she was. That's why I get a refund from the post office of 40 something, and not more.
Snow where you asked to undervalue the pony on the customs form? Or did you undervalue it on your own to help her avoid customs fee's?
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I think the issue with Paypal fees has something to do with the country of the buyer and/or seller. Paypal does not work the same for accounts set up in every country. Many of the comments are from people who are used to US Paypal accounts, so your advice may not help someone with an account based in France or Spain.
Ohhhhh I had no idea that paypal changed depending on the country. But, that makes sense as that country may have certain laws about how money is handled that we do not have.
I sent it tracked, signed for. I was not asked to ensure this pony at the price she was. That's why I get a refund from the post office of 40 something, and not more.
Snow where you asked to undervalue the pony on the customs form? Or did you undervalue it on your own to help her avoid customs fee's?
This is what I was wondering too.
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There shouldn't have been any need for a customs form, as both countries are within the EU and therefore customs does not apply. However, was insurance requested at any point on the package? If there was no insurance and the parcel has gone missing, there is not a lot the seller can do, other than the standard refund from the Spain postal service.
I can say that on my paypal account, I only have a credit card set up on it. When I send as gift, I have the option to pay the fees myself or let the recipient pay them. If that is what happened and the option to pay the fees oneself was not selected, that is likely to be how it was sent as a gift but still with the fees for the recipient. Since it was paid in installments over a period of time anyway, the use of the gift option is something of a moot point.
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Yea the whole insurance thing to me is key here. This was a really expensive purchase and it was insured at 10% its value. Like Pony Lady asked...why it was undervalued...that goes for insurance even if customs forms were not used? I only brought up customs forms because I didn't realize where everything was coming from and going to and I know that when you send a package with insurance/customs its best to declare the full value on either one where the forms apply. So in this case the issue is the insurance form. Why was the full value not declared on the insurance form?
If there was no insurance and the parcel has gone missing, there is not a lot the seller can do
I just kind of disagree in only one way and that is...why would it not have been insured? If the seller asked and it was not insured at request by the buyer then I agree with you. But, we don't know that happened here. It could be that the buyer was not offered insurance in which case the seller didn't ask the buyer and under insured a valuable item. I mean there is just no way to know what happened here as they have not said.
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Well, was insurance purchased? If not, the Spanish post office probably has a max amount they cover with the purchase of the express service. That was probably the amount they gave her.
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Well, was insurance purchased? If not, the Spanish post office probably has a max amount they cover with the purchase of the express service. That was probably the amount they gave her.
This is what the seller has said.
I sent it tracked, signed for. I was not asked to ensure this pony at the price she was. That's why I get a refund from the post office of 40 something, and not more.
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I think I am confused. I think I don't understand/understood what's happening here, maybe private mod intervention like ponylady offered would be best?
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Yeah, I don't think any solution will be reached here, no matter how much we speculate.
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I think I am confused. I think I don't understand/understood what's happening here, maybe private mod intervention like ponylady offered would be best?
I agree with you. I really hope that both of them will contact the mods and work all the particulars out and get a resolution that is fair. There are just so many unanswered and confusing aspects to this transaction. Only the mods have the expertise to know how to help in this situation.
Post Merge: May 14, 2013, 08:41:08 AM
Yeah, I don't think any solution will be reached here, no matter how much we speculate.
Yes because I know for myself that the speculating might not be what happened and going over and over that will not be helpful to anyone. It does present good questions to ask, but Mods are much better at this sort of thing.
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I agree the best way for this to be resolved is for the parties involved to contact a Mod. It is so confusing at this point, thus me asking about customs forms >_< I meant insurance but I am so used to dealing with customs it is stuck in my head with trying to follow all that is going on.
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There shouldn't have been any need for a customs form, as both countries are within the EU and therefore customs does not apply. However, was insurance requested at any point on the package? If there was no insurance and the parcel has gone missing, there is not a lot the seller can do, other than the standard refund from the Spain postal service.
I can say that on my paypal account, I only have a credit card set up on it. When I send as gift, I have the option to pay the fees myself or let the recipient pay them. If that is what happened and the option to pay the fees oneself was not selected, that is likely to be how it was sent as a gift but still with the fees for the recipient. Since it was paid in installments over a period of time anyway, the use of the gift option is something of a moot point.
I simply copy LadyG's comments, as this is exactly our case. I did include a description of used horse pony figure. No, insurance was not requested, the refund is the standard one, yes.
The gift issue, as Insep said herself, is not the point, since it wasn't the problem. Should it be a problem, I did ask for gift at first -as I mentioned earlier- at first installment but since I got charged the fees, I assumed they weren't done so. No need to send them as gift afterwards or at anytime, since, again as LadyG stated, it's over the period of time in any case being paid as installments.
Unfortunately, nothing new can be added in the thread, I believe, as many of you have said.
I can provide tracking document with all details of shipping, claim form that I filled in, claim form with resolution, and receipt of what Spanish postal service has issued, to any Mod that needs this.
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The problem with insurance, in france when you add it, in case of loss, our post office ask an invoice to proove the value of the item. As ponies are used toy we cannot show the value and accordingly the post office doesn't refund... maybe it's the same in other countries ?
Snow you can ask a mod about the negative to turn into a neutral feedback, i'm not here to ruin your reputation but i was just angry about no communication these last month as i'm waiting since november 2012. I also have 100% feedback here and on ebay but a problem can happen sometimes (10 years collecting) i'm just very surprised that a tracking parcel can be lost, it's the first time since i started collecting.
Please send me a copy of the tracking document stamped by your post office and make communication.
thanks
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The problem with insurance, in france when you add it, in case of loss, our post office ask an invoice to proove the value of the item. As ponies are used toy we cannot show the value and accordingly the post office doesn't refund... maybe it's the same in other countries ?
I don't know anything about what's going on here but I'd thought I'd tell you how insurance works.
The fact that you paid $400 for the item, and she shipped it to you, is proof enough that the item is worth $400. To show proof of the value, you would show the mail people the Paypal invoice.
However, let's say you shipped a $400 vintage pony to a family member as a gift for their birthday. It would be harder to prove since the receiver didn't pay for the item. As you said, vintage ponies are in a realm that people wouldn't understand their value. I'm not sure how proving that would work.
Now I'm in the USA, but for here, that is how insurances for ALL the delivery companies work (FedEx, UPS, USPS). You just show that the receiver paid so-and-so for the item and that is what you are owed. Of course, you have to insure it for that much to begin with.
I would assume it's not different in France or Spain.
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The problem with insurance, in france when you add it, in case of loss, our post office ask an invoice to proove the value of the item. As ponies are used toy we cannot show the value and accordingly the post office doesn't refund... maybe it's the same in other countries ?
I don't know anything about what's going on here but I'd thought I'd tell you how insurance works.
The fact that you paid $400 for the item, and she shipped it to you, is proof enough that the item is worth $400. To show proof of the value, you would show the mail people the Paypal invoice.
However, let's say you shipped a $400 vintage pony to a family member as a gift for their birthday. It would be harder to prove since the receiver didn't pay for the item. As you said, vintage ponies are in a realm that people wouldn't understand their value. I'm not sure how proving that would work.
Now I'm in the USA, but for here, that is how insurances for ALL the delivery companies work (FedEx, UPS, USPS). You just show that the receiver paid so-and-so for the item and that is what you are owed. Of course, you have to insure it for that much to begin with.
I would assume it's not different in France or Spain.
Not in this case. She undervalued the package on the customs form. That is why she only got 40 back on it from the post office. You have to declare full value of the items your sending and what your sending. They are not going to give her a refund simply because she paid $400.00 for it. You need to mark it $400.00 on the package, otherwise you are pretty much screwed. Marking it for lower, results in the person it being shipped to paying little to no duty fees on the package.
If the sender was to have actually marked that package at a value of $400.00 her duty fee would be a pretty penny.
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There was no customs form and nothing to declare, since they're both in the EU.
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hmmm. Was not enough insurance purchased then?
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Insurance was not purchased. The money Snow got back was the standard amount for a tracked parcel.
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There was no customs forms in this. But what happened was that this seller did not purchase insurance. Based on her comments it appears that she didn't ask the buyer if they wanted full coverage (still have no proof as this question was never answered). So, since the buyer didn't ask for full coverage insurance, the pony wasn't insured and the refund is only a basic small amount. This has nothing to do with customs...It was not insured by the seller.
Even in the USA you have to pay a fee for what insurance you want. If its not insured even here the item will not be refunded by USPS. This however is another country.
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{locking due to all the unwarranted confusion going on} The Mods have been contacted and we are now dealing with it. Thank you~PonyLady