The MLP Arena

Creativity => Customs => Topic started by: Maniah on February 19, 2012, 12:18:56 PM

Title: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 19, 2012, 12:18:56 PM
There have been a few topics lately that talked about dying and how to do it.. So I though I would post some pictures explaining the problems that a lot of people talked about, but were unable to illustrate.

I have been customizing ponies since 2005, and I had stopped for a while, so I had a collection of baits in various stages of finish.. Here is a picture of one that I had dyed a dark blue. It is now my experiment pony. I use it to test various things on.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


#1 and #2 used to be the same color as #3. This pony spent years inside a box packed away out of light, so it isn't light that caused this. The color just changed in uneven spots and splotches.

When I dyed her, I used a Rit Dye bath. I salted the water to help set the dye, also. When she came out, I rinsed her, then set her aside and never finished her.

Luckily by this time, I had learned that the dye bleeds onto other ponies, so I had stored her separate. I had some black ponies I had dyed, who got tossed in the box early on and they stained other ponies.

So yeah.. This is why I dont dye anymore. It just doesnt last.

If anyone has tips on making it last, I'd be happy to hear them. This pony is about 5 or 6 years old.

Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 19, 2012, 01:46:42 PM
That's the same question I had on DA.
I'm not sure of the answer to this, I have dyed several of my ponies, some dye really well like the baby fakies, I have a dyed blue one that I re-rooted in white and boil permed her hair and no due has run or come off on other ponies, also this girl was dyed a long time ago- aprox 2 years ago so I don't know if she might fade after 5 years?
My custom North Star was dyed black and I haven't heared of any problems with her. She was made aprox 2 years ago, I think?
I use a specific salt dye not regular salt so I'm not sure if this matters.
Needless to say some of the ponies I have dyed I put back in my bait box and dye did come off onto other ponies.
It could be the typ of plastic? Some plastics might take better than others?
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 19, 2012, 02:39:55 PM
That's the same question I had on DA.
I'm not sure of the answer to this, I have dyed several of my ponies, some dye really well like the baby fakies, I have a dyed blue one that I re-rooted in white and boil permed her hair and no due has run or come off on other ponies, also this girl was dyed a long time ago- aprox 2 years ago so I don't know if she might fade after 5 years?
My custom North Star was dyed black and I haven't heared of any problems with her. She was made aprox 2 years ago, I think?
I use a specific salt dye not regular salt so I'm not sure if this matters.
Needless to say some of the ponies I have dyed I put back in my bait box and dye did come off onto other ponies.
It could be the typ of plastic? Some plastics might take better than others?


*waves* That was me :)
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Colorscapesart on February 19, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
.....because there is too much to live for!


(ba dum bah! Sorry I could not resist.  I'm a dork!  Sadly, I have nothing to add as dyeing is a science that I have not mastered in the least).
Title: Re: Why I don\'t Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 19, 2012, 05:54:36 PM
Haha, hello!
Hope someone else has more insight on this!
X

Post Merge: February 19, 2012, 06:10:54 PM

Hmm just had a look at my baby Starlet which was dyed black and she was made April 2010, still looking good :)
She belongs to my mum so hopefully the dye won't fade!
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 19, 2012, 06:39:45 PM
Haha, hello!
Hope someone else has more insight on this!
X

Post Merge: February 19, 2012, 06:10:54 PM

Hmm just had a look at my baby Starlet which was dyed black and she was made April 2010, still looking good :)
She belongs to my mum so hopefully the dye won't fade!

Funny thing.. The two black ponies are the only two I have that DIDNT have color fade issues. But the other hues, blue, purple, green, all did.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: NoDivision on February 19, 2012, 07:17:04 PM
I no longer own most of my dyed ponies, but my very first pony is about 2 years old now and her dye is fine. I mean it has faded from its original color, as all dyed ponies do to some extent over time, but she's not uneven or discolored.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 19, 2012, 07:56:07 PM
I have a brown and green pony done by SammyTVR sitting on my desk that was dyed aprox 3 years ago, they don't seem to have any sign of dye fade either. I wonder if certain colours fade more than others?
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: babystarz on February 19, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
I dyed a Moondancer dark blue with RIT dye and she is very faded 5 years later. The fading is uniform (except around the hair plugs, where it's still very dark), but really unattractive and apparent.

I have a brown and green pony done by SammyTVR sitting on my desk that was dyed aprox 3 years ago, they don't seem to have any sign of dye fade either. I wonder if certain colours fade more than others?

I'm sure it depends on what exactly they used for the pigment in each color, and whether certain pigments are plant based or mineral based or something else (synthetic maybe?). It wouldn't surprise me if some pigments are more permanent than others. I'm also curious to find out if ponies that were coated with sealant after being dyed have fading problems or not.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Wardah on February 19, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
So I guess if we want a different color a FBR is the way to go? But what about sparkle ponies? Is there a clear paint that you could do a FBR that you would still be able to see through it?
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: NoDivision on February 19, 2012, 09:27:31 PM
I think it has more to do with the plastic and the dye method and time than the colors. We know some ponies don't take color as well, so it stands to reason that they could fade easier. And I imagine ponies that are intentionally lighter and therefore spend less time in the dye will fade more quickly as well.
Title: Re: Why I don\'t Dye
Post by: babystarz on February 19, 2012, 09:32:20 PM
I think it has more to do with the plastic and the dye method and time than the colors. We know some ponies don't take color as well, so it stands to reason that they could fade easier. And I imagine ponies that are lighter and therefore spend less time in the dye will fade more quickly as well.

That's true, there is a lot of variability in the plastic of ponies of different years and different colors, which will certainly affect how well the dye bonds with the plastic. I suppose if I had dyed a pony that was already some shade of blue, I might not have the intense fading that I've gotten from dying a white pony blue too.

Post Merge: February 19, 2012, 09:35:54 PM

So I guess if we want a different color a FBR is the way to go? But what about sparkle ponies? Is there a clear paint that you could do a FBR that you would still be able to see through it?

Yes, there are different clear sealants and whatnot around, and I think they could be mixed with glitter, or just painted over whatever sparkle effect you give the pony. They do tend to show brush strokes like paint does, so for a spotless effect you'd need to use an airbrush I think. The one thing I would worry about with sealant is that it might become discolored or yellowed over time, but I admittedly don't have much experience with it.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: rybett on February 20, 2012, 02:19:13 AM
I just bought some "hologram" paint.  Looks like it will dry clear and shimmery.  DD just offered up one of her Mintys to try it out.
ETA: oooo!!!!!!!!!  Yup, dries clear and shimmery.  I think another couple of coats and we will have "Sparkle Mint".  It's Folkart brand, Extreme Glitter.  Silver hologrammy label, white shimmery paint.  It's soo cool, I had to share this.   :biggrin:   
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: StarFaerie on February 20, 2012, 03:12:29 AM
That's the same question I had on DA.
I'm not sure of the answer to this, I have dyed several of my ponies, some dye really well like the baby fakies, I have a dyed blue one that I re-rooted in white and boil permed her hair and no due has run or come off on other ponies, also this girl was dyed a long time ago- aprox 2 years ago so I don't know if she might fade after 5 years?
My custom North Star was dyed black and I haven't heared of any problems with her. She was made aprox 2 years ago, I think?
I use a specific salt dye not regular salt so I'm not sure if this matters.
Needless to say some of the ponies I have dyed I put back in my bait box and dye did come off onto other ponies.
It could be the typ of plastic? Some plastics might take better than others?


LLL, Northstar is still black with no blotchy bits. She is still the pride of my collection.   :lovey:
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Wardah on February 20, 2012, 04:35:55 AM
I just bought some "hologram" paint.  Looks like it will dry clear and shimmery.  DD just offered up one of her Mintys to try it out.
ETA: oooo!!!!!!!!!  Yup, dries clear and shimmery.  I think another couple of coats and we will have "Sparkle Mint".  It's Folkart brand, Extreme Glitter.  Silver hologrammy label, white shimmery paint.  It's soo cool, I had to share this.   :biggrin:   

But can it turn a transparent yellow or aqua pony to a grass green?
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 20, 2012, 04:45:45 AM
I suppose if I had dyed a pony that was already some shade of blue, I might not have the intense fading that I've gotten from dying a white pony blue too.

Is your fade worse than the pony I showed in the first post? I'm fairly certain that pony was a light purple to start with when I dyed her to blue.

Given what others are saying, the dye job seems to last at least two years. But at 5 years, multiple people report discoloring. Also, both discoloring reports were about ponies done with blue RIT dye. I have black ponies older than the blue pony who did not discolor.

I'd be interested to know which other colors suffer from fade.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: babystarz on February 20, 2012, 04:58:02 AM
Is your fade worse than the pony I showed in the first post? I'm fairly certain that pony was a light purple to start with when I dyed her to blue.

I'm not sure if I'd call it "worse" so much as different. I'll get a picture of her next time I'm at my parents house, but she was an intense, dark royal blue when I finished dying her and that color held for quite a while. It was only when I pulled her out of storage recently that I noticed she had faded quite a bit. It kind of reminds me of the way jeans fade over time as you wash them actually.

I think I dyed a couple of ponies purple at one time too, I'll see if I can find those.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 20, 2012, 07:53:24 AM
Yay, I'm so glad NorthStar is ok :heart:
I have some commissions that require dyeing, I think I'm going to dye them just that little bit more just to make sure, I might stay clear of the blue :D
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: rybett on February 20, 2012, 03:09:53 PM
I just bought some "hologram" paint.  Looks like it will dry clear and shimmery.  DD just offered up one of her Mintys to try it out.
ETA: oooo!!!!!!!!!  Yup, dries clear and shimmery.  I think another couple of coats and we will have "Sparkle Mint".  It's Folkart brand, Extreme Glitter.  Silver hologrammy label, white shimmery paint.  It's soo cool, I had to share this.   :biggrin:   

But can it turn a transparent yellow or aqua pony to a grass green?

Well, there is a green version of it online.  Not sure,  I've never had a transparent pony to play with.  Come to think of it, the one time I tried to dye a yellow one green, it didn't work.  Bright red, a couple of pink ones is all.   Oh, and a white to orange one.   I'll let ya'll know in about 5 years if they fade.  ;)   
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Diamond on February 20, 2012, 03:24:41 PM
Maybe check the colorfastness rating of the dies you are using?  In the sign industry many colors are not as color fast and will fade over time.  For example the one shop I used to work in offered cheap vinyl not made by 3M and 3M premium grade vinyl.  The cheap stuff would fade with in two years (or less sometimes) while the 3M would last anywhere from 5 years for red to forever with black.

Also do you guys set with vinegar?  I do that for my tie die and it helps tremendously to set the color.  Not sure if it would make a difference on a pony.

Someone mentioned in regards to the plastic, it does seem that G3's vary in regards to softness so that could be it, some maybe be sucking in more color then others.

Though after reading all this I think I shall stick to full body repaints.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 20, 2012, 06:24:13 PM
So how would you use vinegar? Do you add it in the water with the dye or after dyeing?
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Colorscapesart on February 20, 2012, 07:25:32 PM
Vinegar helps a ton with nylon hair!  After the pony has been in the dye bath 5 minutes, add like a teaspoon or half a teaspoon of vinegar to the dye bath.  Per Rit Dye instructions :)
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 20, 2012, 07:27:44 PM
This will be good to know since I am planning a custom that MAY have white hair with black tips. Not certain on that yet, but I'm mulling it over.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Diamond on February 20, 2012, 09:15:10 PM
So how would you use vinegar? Do you add it in the water with the dye or after dyeing?

For clothing we do a vinegar bath after but I let the clothing sit for 24 hours after dieing, then I do cold water rinsing and then a final rinse in vinegar and water.  Not sure how you would adept that to a pony but it makes a huge difference on the color holding and not fading.

Vinegar helps a ton with nylon hair!  After the pony has been in the dye bath 5 minutes, add like a teaspoon or half a teaspoon of vinegar to the dye bath.  Per Rit Dye instructions :)

Color that is good to know about the hair as I do have plans to play with some hair on one pony I want to do.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 21, 2012, 12:45:18 PM
ok thats cool to know, I will make sure to add vinegar next time :)
thanks x
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: hlbmlp on February 21, 2012, 02:25:53 PM
i dont know about ponies but when we dye things in class we use soda ash.  not sure what that would do to ponies.... but i know it works great on fabric, yarn, and my hands!
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Tinker on February 22, 2012, 09:54:38 AM
...
Also do you guys set with vinegar?  I do that for my tie die and it helps tremendously to set the color.  Not sure if it would make a difference on a pony. ...

i dont know about ponies but when we dye things in class we use soda ash.  not sure what that would do to ponies.... but i know it works great on fabric, yarn, and my hands!

In my recent trails of coffee staining I learned about Mordant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant) from a tailor friend of mine. (my coffee stains didn't set) Mordant can be a base like soda ash or an acid like vinegar.  :)
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: creampuf on February 22, 2012, 02:51:51 PM
Couple notes:

Will a dyed pony fade? If it sits out in too much light and over the course of time, yes...but so does nylon hair and pony bodies in general.

Do all ponies dye the same way: Nope! different plastic types mean different results, the harder ponies are not worth even trying their material is not porous enough for the dye to set. Also I can't stress enough the importance of properly cleaning the pony and not touching her at all during the dying process with your hands. You hands have oils and dye does not like oil.

You must boil them: I'm sorry but I have had nothing but amazing results with dying only because I boil them alive. I know some people just place them in a separate dish and pour hot water on top and wait but it doesn't give the plastic time to open up and the dye to come in.

Dissolving problems: If you don't whisk the heck out of your dye water...till you get a foam on top you run the risk of improperly mixed dye which will screw up the pony....oh and add salt.

Vinegar: After the pony is dyed I wash mine with warm water and Dawn dish soap, then place into a cold water bowl with a splash of white distilled vinegar, I let the pony sit for at least 5 minutes and then wash her again in a clean sink with Dawn dish soap.

Storing: yes dye bleeds place them into a Ziploc bag away form other ponies and out of bright light. Don't forget to take the pony out every couple weeks to let the dye breathe out a little, this helps with it's staying power.

Using: You need to let the pony sit around for a few months before using...it's the only way to help make sure you don't run into dye bleed. A quick way to test is to paint a little white ont he pony seal the paint and then wait over night...if the white is not white the next day she needs to keep sitting.

Dying is a tricky process...takes a lot of time and patience to do well. It is rewarding and beautiful when done.

more tips and stuff on my website.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: NoDivision on February 22, 2012, 03:06:44 PM
Creampuf - I used your dye method tutorial on my very first pony and have done it that way ever since and generally have phenominal results. Of course there are the occasional anomolies where the ponies just hate me, but when it works it works really well.

The boiling thing is expecially important to take note of. I hear people complaining all the time about their dye not taking and it turns out they are just trying to use hot water in a bowl - you have to boil those ponies alive!
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Diamond on February 22, 2012, 04:10:15 PM
you have to boil those ponies alive!
Sorry but that line just made me laugh.  Good to know all those great tips Creampuf and you too ND.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: creampuf on February 22, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Creampuf - I used your dye method tutorial on my very first pony and have done it that way ever since and generally have phenominal results. Of course there are the occasional anomolies where the ponies just hate me, but when it works it works really well.

The boiling thing is expecially important to take note of. I hear people complaining all the time about their dye not taking and it turns out they are just trying to use hot water in a bowl - you have to boil those ponies alive!

Oh good you were the one person who read it...mystery solved ^_^

Actually I'm just happy that it helped :hug:
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 22, 2012, 06:11:57 PM
Couple notes:

Will a dyed pony fade? If it sits out in too much light and over the course of time, yes...but so does nylon hair and pony bodies in general.

Do all ponies dye the same way: Nope! different plastic types mean different results, the harder ponies are not worth even trying their material is not porous enough for the dye to set. Also I can't stress enough the importance of properly cleaning the pony and not touching her at all during the dying process with your hands. You hands have oils and dye does not like oil.

You must boil them: I'm sorry but I have had nothing but amazing results with dying only because I boil them alive. I know some people just place them in a separate dish and pour hot water on top and wait but it doesn't give the plastic time to open up and the dye to come in.

Dissolving problems: If you don't whisk the heck out of your dye water...till you get a foam on top you run the risk of improperly mixed dye which will screw up the pony....oh and add salt.

Vinegar: After the pony is dyed I wash mine with warm water and Dawn dish soap, then place into a cold water bowl with a splash of white distilled vinegar, I let the pony sit for at least 5 minutes and then wash her again in a clean sink with Dawn dish soap.

Storing: yes dye bleeds place them into a Ziploc bag away form other ponies and out of bright light. Don't forget to take the pony out every couple weeks to let the dye breathe out a little, this helps with it's staying power.

Using: You need to let the pony sit around for a few months before using...it's the only way to help make sure you don't run into dye bleed. A quick way to test is to paint a little white ont he pony seal the paint and then wait over night...if the white is not white the next day she needs to keep sitting.

Dying is a tricky process...takes a lot of time and patience to do well. It is rewarding and beautiful when done.

more tips and stuff on my website.

These are the best tips I have seen by far. The picture I posted in the original thread was a pony that was boiled and salted. I don't think I used vinegar. She was stored away from light, and she just went odd.

But maybe using your method, and boiling them a bit longer, and a bit stronger, it would work out OK and be better.

Sad thing is.. It's hard to test that because it took 5 years for that one to look that bad >.<

So I don't know.. I am tempted, but cautious.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: creampuf on February 22, 2012, 06:52:12 PM
Couple notes:

Will a dyed pony fade? If it sits out in too much light and over the course of time, yes...but so does nylon hair and pony bodies in general.

Do all ponies dye the same way: Nope! different plastic types mean different results, the harder ponies are not worth even trying their material is not porous enough for the dye to set. Also I can't stress enough the importance of properly cleaning the pony and not touching her at all during the dying process with your hands. You hands have oils and dye does not like oil.

You must boil them: I'm sorry but I have had nothing but amazing results with dying only because I boil them alive. I know some people just place them in a separate dish and pour hot water on top and wait but it doesn't give the plastic time to open up and the dye to come in.

Dissolving problems: If you don't whisk the heck out of your dye water...till you get a foam on top you run the risk of improperly mixed dye which will screw up the pony....oh and add salt.

Vinegar: After the pony is dyed I wash mine with warm water and Dawn dish soap, then place into a cold water bowl with a splash of white distilled vinegar, I let the pony sit for at least 5 minutes and then wash her again in a clean sink with Dawn dish soap.

Storing: yes dye bleeds place them into a Ziploc bag away form other ponies and out of bright light. Don't forget to take the pony out every couple weeks to let the dye breathe out a little, this helps with it's staying power.

Using: You need to let the pony sit around for a few months before using...it's the only way to help make sure you don't run into dye bleed. A quick way to test is to paint a little white ont he pony seal the paint and then wait over night...if the white is not white the next day she needs to keep sitting.

Dying is a tricky process...takes a lot of time and patience to do well. It is rewarding and beautiful when done.

more tips and stuff on my website.

These are the best tips I have seen by far. The picture I posted in the original thread was a pony that was boiled and salted. I don't think I used vinegar. She was stored away from light, and she just went odd.

But maybe using your method, and boiling them a bit longer, and a bit stronger, it would work out OK and be better.

Sad thing is.. It's hard to test that because it took 5 years for that one to look that bad >.<

So I don't know.. I am tempted, but cautious.

Other thing to note is that not all ponies and plastic are created the same. if a plastic has a discrepancy in one area it may have adverse reactions down the road. Like regrind issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the pony problem wasn't because of this or some other weirdness and not necessarily because of the dye.

I seriously can't stress the importance of boiling. when I boil the ponies I have 2 pans...one with the dye and one with clean water. when I get the pony to the color I like I boil it for a bit in the clean pan...some dye will come off but that's not necessarily a bad thing...it's surface  dye that may or may not have actually gotten into the pony. that can cause most (not all) of the bleed problems.

I would recommend you experiment and try again...I know you're hesitant because of previous experience but it's always worth another chance especially if you've learned some new tricks to try.
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: babystarz on February 22, 2012, 09:16:40 PM
Hm, I did definitely boil my pony but I can't remember if I used vinegar. I think I did, as we have a jug of it sitting around, but I can't be sure. She was also stored away in a box for 5 years, so it's not like any light could get in to cause the fading, which is why I think it must have something to do with her original color being so light. It's annoying that this takes so long to test. Perhaps a few people should try different dye setting methods and then store the ponies for a few years on purpose just to see what happens to the dye :P
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Maniah on February 23, 2012, 01:58:03 AM
Yeah. I'm in the same boat. Mine was in a box for 5 years. I just hate that to test stuff out I have to wait 5 years for answers. :(
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 23, 2012, 11:36:26 AM
Well im up to aprox 3 years on one of mine!
Let's hope I stick around for a another 2 to let you guys know haha! Although mine didn't include the vinegar :P
Thanks Creampuf as always you are awesome! X
Does it matter what type of vinegar you use? I have Cider Vinegar lol
Like me my Cider :)
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: Colorscapesart on February 23, 2012, 07:22:09 PM
I use white vinegar, that is what the Rit recommended, not sure about Cider :P
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: lovelauraland on February 23, 2012, 09:10:20 PM
Ok, I will get some White Vinegar :)
Thanks loads x
Title: Re: Why I don't Dye
Post by: creampuf on February 24, 2012, 03:31:07 PM
Cider vinegar is fantastic for making Jamaican jerk marinades and spicy Mexican shredded beef but not sure about it for dye.

I use white distilled ^_^
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal