The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: dragonlady on February 23, 2016, 04:53:30 PM
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Edit: she agreed to cancel sale.
I screwed up big time!!
I have some dolls up for sale on ebay including a lot of two older Barbies. I had someone ask for closer pics of the faces which I did, the person promptly bought them (she's sending payment tomorrow).
My problem?I didn't realize buyer is from Italy! On my other listings I had disabled the international shipping but have international people pm me for a quote if they wanted to bid. Apparently I did not on this particular listing and shipping is only $7. Shipping is $23 to Italy and also I don't like shipping there as so many people have issues with customs.
Do I have any options or do I have to eat this? I feel really bad as the buyer is really excited about these but the total would just pay for shipping only :(.
Any advice is appreciated!
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1/ Don't send them. Mark them as shipped on ebay. When the buyer says they never arrived, give them a full refund. Then wait a few months, and relist the dolls. (If the buyer brings it up when you relist them, say they came back as non deliverable.)
2/ Honestly tell your buyer that you don't ship to Italy, apologize and tell them there was an error in the listing. Refund them.
3/ Admit you goofed, and ship to Italy. (I wouldn't do this).
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You can cancel the transaction. One of the reasons for cancellation is "buyer is from a country I do not ship to". The buyer has to agree to cancel the sale or you will not get your feed reimbursed, however in this case I think you'd be better off losing the cost of fees than losing the cost of international shipping.
Post Merge: February 23, 2016, 05:29:30 PM
1/ Don't send them. Mark them as shipped on ebay. When the buyer says they never arrived, give them a full refund. Then wait a few months, and relist the dolls. (If the buyer brings it up when you relist them, say they came back as non deliverable.)
I would not recommend doing this. As buyers I think most of us would be extremely upset if a seller did this to us. Plus marking as shipped on eBay with no proof of shipping with a customs number, then having a "lost package" would seriously knock down your seller reputation in ebay's seller dashboard.
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You can cancel this sale with the reason "problem with buyer's address". It won't even affect your seller rating. In fact, if you're following eBays rules, you would have to. Each time you fill out an international customs form, you are asked to tick off a box saying that you've read the customs and import laws of the country you're shipping to, and that your item doesn't violate any international laws. In this case, a doll does. Italy does not allow any toys to be sent that are not wholly made of wood. In this case, it's actually illegal to ship your item to Italy. I ship internationally all the time myself, but Italy and Russia are the only two countries I don't ship to. Italy because ponies violate their shipping laws, and Russia because even the post office won't insure items sent there. Hopefully this helps!
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Be a pony!
As an experienced ebay buyer and seller of 15+ years (ebay ID russdaniels2001), I have never been disappointed as the buyer when the seller is honest, or subjected a buyer to dishonesty as the seller. Shenanigans are bad, mkay.
Just tell the buyer that there is a mistake in the listing (which is a basis for cancellation, or used to be last time I sold which was a few years ago) and the shipping is for domestic only. Ask if they would like to pay the $23, and that you have heard of problems with customs shipping there and that the buyer takes responsibility for any customs issue (the buyer already has to deal with that on a daily basis and will be prepared and might have a suggestion on how best to ship there). Be sure to tell the buyer that you are willing to cancel based on your mistake if that is what they want to do, so they feel good about their options.
Many buyers will gladly pay, or will say gee darn sorry thanks and you can cancel. On a rare occasion a buyer will try to bully you into paying yourself or some other thing (this happened to me only one time in 15 years and when I said Why would I do that? they requested the cancel) but just be firm and polite. Be sure what you do is documented in the buyer's emails to you so you could challenge any negative feedback or other problem if the buyer pulls anything like that, which is rare so just keep and follow email agreements so you are protected just in case.
Never be unfair to a buyer by making the item they won unavailable without trying to work it out, and never feel that you have to pay for the shipping quote mistake. It is an honest clerical error and eBay will not punish you for trying to resolve it amicably with your buyer by offering a corrected shipping amount or a cancellation based on a mistake in the listing.
And relax! Your buyer wants a pleasant smooth transaction. Be nice. Be firm. Try to get your item into the buyer's hands without burning yourself. All will be well. It's only if you are unfair, dishonest or unfriendly that you will run into problems.
Good luck!!
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Lostpony summed it up nicely i second that. I ha e a friend in italy that i post to regularly she is a doll collector. I have never had a problem posting to her but i do know they dont like to see toys written on custom forms you need to be more specific. X number of barbie doll and doll accessories would be fine by customs. Toys are allowed to be posted there, i know as silverdawn meantioned about wood items but this is not vaild anymore, toys can be sent there without problems (sosilver has explained why this wood thing and toys has come up in the past before but i cant remember the details).
Italy customs are slow thou, i know of horror stories also but i think most buyers from italy accept all reasonablity for this
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It's actually still valid. Third from the bottom under the list of prohibitions.
http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/il_008.htm
This is the website I'm required to sign off of when I ship through eBay and USPS. I'm not saying you *can't* ship to Italy. I'm saying if you get the wrong customs officer on the wrong day, they can confiscate your package and there's nothing you can do about it. I've heard of it happening from a few unlucky people. Probably you can ship dolls/toys there the majority of the time and be perfectly okay. However, I'm never that lucky. A million other people can get away with something, but the second I go even a little outside the what's standard, I get nailed. Every time. So shipping ponies/dolls to Italy is always at your own risk. It's just up to you if you want to take that risk or not.
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Oh wow thats so weird, i would have to look up what so silver said but i guess what happens in italy and on ebay are to different things. I would in that cause just tell the buyer the truth and send her the link silverdawn supplied
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It's Italian law, not eBays. ;) Ebay and USPS just relay the information provided to them by the various world governments.
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Wow that prohibition list is amazing! I can't think of any one thing in the universe that isn't prohibited except for a toy made of wood with no clothing, flowers, pictures, shoes, batteries, or any sort of clock parts.
Basically, wooden blocks with no printing or the imaginary toy from Saturday Night Live called "Log".
I had no idea about Italy! What is going on there? Trade protectionism? Learn something new every day. Those poor Italian eBay buyers!
I would still leave it to the buyer. With a restriction list like that, it is impossible to enforce more than a tiny percentage. Ask the buyer how to describe the contents, and make sure that description is at least somewhat accurate to stay out of trouble.
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Thank you everyone for the advice, it was much appreciated! I'll update what happens:)
Edit: Just checked email, oh dear...
I did cancel and my message to her:
Hello!
I'm sorry to say this but I'm afraid I made a mistake on the listing; I do not usually ship internationally and rarely to Italy as I know too many people who have had trouble with Italian customs. The shipping posted was for the US only.
In your case I am willing to ship to Italy and to relist the auction as a $12 BIN (the original starting bid price) but the least expensive shipping will be $23.
If you decide not to buy the dolls I will cancel the order. I apologize for the misunderstanding!"
This is her response:
"Where is the problem ??? If you read all my feedback, you know i buy always in Usa without problem. You have afraid because i say you "i pay tomorrow ???" but i pay !!! I pay always for all my auctions !!! You put on auction "shipping in Italy " ,when i say "pay you tomorrow " you change your mind !!! I can pay 24/48 hour you know ? You dont write immediately payment ! Why before you wish "good night ""? You know i am italian ... I AM A RESPECTABLE PERSON ,YOU ARE NOT THE SAME. you want erase my order ? Ok ! Are you happy for this ? Ok ! But you make a big mistake because i am italian, but not bad person and with program international ,you not have trouble with the customer.... I dont understand why you change fast your mind but one thing i know...its not good. One seller professional not do like this. Goodbye.."
I do agree with her on one thing, I am unprofessional as I did not double-check my listing (I hate that the "will ship internationally" is default!! )
I want to message her back to explain better as it's not her or Italy I have a problem with (except customs) but the fact I can't eat the costs. I feel badly she's disappointed and feels insulted! I hate eBay...
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Thank you everyone for the advice, it was much appreciated! I'll update what happens:)
Edit: Just checked email, oh dear...
I did cancel and my message to her:
Hello!
I'm sorry to say this but I'm afraid I made a mistake on the listing; I do not usually ship internationally and rarely to Italy as I know too many people who have had trouble with Italian customs. The shipping posted was for the US only.
In your case I am willing to ship to Italy and to relist the auction as a $12 BIN (the original starting bid price) but the least expensive shipping will be $23.
If you decide not to buy the dolls I will cancel the order. I apologize for the misunderstanding!"
This is her response:
"Where is the problem ??? If you read all my feedback, you know i buy always in Usa without problem. You have afraid because i say you "i pay tomorrow ???" but i pay !!! I pay always for all my auctions !!! You put on auction "shipping in Italy " ,when i say "pay you tomorrow " you change your mind !!! I can pay 24/48 hour you know ? You dont write immediately payment ! Why before you wish "good night ""? You know i am italian ... I AM A RESPECTABLE PERSON ,YOU ARE NOT THE SAME. you want erase my order ? Ok ! Are you happy for this ? Ok ! But you make a big mistake because i am italian, but not bad person and with program international ,you not have trouble with the customer.... I dont understand why you change fast your mind but one thing i know...its not good. One seller professional not do like this. Goodbye.."
I do agree with her on one thing, I am unprofessional as I did not double-check my listing (I hate that the "will ship internationally" is default!! )
I want to message her back to explain better as it's not her or Italy I have a problem with (except customs) but the fact I can't eat the costs. I feel badly she's disappointed and feels insulted! I hate eBay...
I would just message her back and nicely explain again that you understand her disappointment but there was an error in the listing as eBay chooses international shipping by default and you do not ship to Italy. You can even explain that it is against her country's laws to import toys other than wood so you can't even guarantee that her item would get to her. It stinks to disappoint a buyer but there isn't much you can do in this case other than eat the shipping cost. Even then, she could still file a claim if her doll gets held up in customs and then you'd be out the doll and shipping costs. Also, if she does buy from the US frequently she should know that it costs more than 7$ to ship to Italy. You aren't forcing her to pay more shipping than you originally promised. She has that option if she wants the doll. Likewise she shouldn't force you to give her the doll for free and pay out of pocket for shipping it.
ETA: You could even explain to her that if you sold her the doll with the original shipping it would cost you money to send the doll. You would get nothing for the doll and you would be paying out of pocket for the shipping. I think perhaps she is reacting so badly because she miss-understood that you wouldn't ship to her just because she's in Italy.
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Thank you everyone for the advice, it was much appreciated! I'll update what happens:)
Edit: Just checked email, oh dear...
I did cancel and my message to her:
Hello!
I'm sorry to say this but I'm afraid I made a mistake on the listing; I do not usually ship internationally and rarely to Italy as I know too many people who have had trouble with Italian customs. The shipping posted was for the US only.
In your case I am willing to ship to Italy and to relist the auction as a $12 BIN (the original starting bid price) but the least expensive shipping will be $23.
If you decide not to buy the dolls I will cancel the order. I apologize for the misunderstanding!"
This is her response:
"Where is the problem ??? If you read all my feedback, you know i buy always in Usa without problem. You have afraid because i say you "i pay tomorrow ???" but i pay !!! I pay always for all my auctions !!! You put on auction "shipping in Italy " ,when i say "pay you tomorrow " you change your mind !!! I can pay 24/48 hour you know ? You dont write immediately payment ! Why before you wish "good night ""? You know i am italian ... I AM A RESPECTABLE PERSON ,YOU ARE NOT THE SAME. you want erase my order ? Ok ! Are you happy for this ? Ok ! But you make a big mistake because i am italian, but not bad person and with program international ,you not have trouble with the customer.... I dont understand why you change fast your mind but one thing i know...its not good. One seller professional not do like this. Goodbye.."
I do agree with her on one thing, I am unprofessional as I did not double-check my listing (I hate that the "will ship internationally" is default!! )
I want to message her back to explain better as it's not her or Italy I have a problem with (except customs) but the fact I can't eat the costs. I feel badly she's disappointed and feels insulted! I hate eBay...
Instead of having the bid, why not put buy it now if she hasn't bought it yet? Someone could raise the bid.. Idk. Because you said you would just raise the shipping, right? You could explain that Italy is farther away so it would cost more...?
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That was what I meant to do:) the original listing was $12 starting bid with a Bin of $18 (she did the BIN). Where i made the mistake I offered to give her the $12 as a BIN but with the corrected shipping price.
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That was what I meant to do:) the original listing was $12 starting bid with a Bin of $18 (she did the BIN). Where i made the mistake I offered to give her the $12 as a BIN but with the corrected shipping price.
Ohhh okay.
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Wow, I think she waayyy over reacted in her response to you. I thought your message to her was perfectly reasonable. If it were me I would just cancel the sale and wash my hands of it, because it doesn't seem like your buyer is going to be reasonable about it.
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Wow, I think she waayyy over reacted in her response to you. I thought your message to her was perfectly reasonable. If it were me I would just cancel the listing and wash my hands of it, because it doesn't seem like your buyer is going to be reasonable about it.
I have to agree with NoDivision on this. However upset or disappointed there is no need to sound like that and she could have responded in a nicer manner like you did. From personal experience, I did the same and sent to a buyer in Italy and she never got it due to customs I think so I lost out on the item, postage and forced to refund the buyer who was not even thankful :cry:
If you do get a negative feedback, you can always explain your actions in the response bit.
Whatever you do, Good luck my lovely xxx
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Oh my goodness- with that kind of attitude, I am sure a lot of people would like to avoid dealing with this person... :(
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Unfortunate.
But, your message did explain adequately and rather than be patient with you the buyer jumped to conclusions and got angry with you. Sure, the buyer has reason to be upset but that reason isn't entirely your fault. A buyer has a responsibility to be a little more professional too.
Your message did propose a re-list at a lower price. You don't need to repeat yourself. The buyer may reread everything and come politely ask for the relist. I suggest you avoid sending more messages. There is no need to justify yourself. You have avoided getting any negative feedback, and you probably can't make the buyer feel better no matter what you do.
Consider it a learning experience and move on.
Post Merge: February 24, 2016, 11:10:24 AM
Um assuming you did cancel. If you didn't, then it would be a good idea to do so or that temper may show itself on your feedback profile.
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Is your high bidder by chance the buyer from this post http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,362963.msg1308008.html#msg1308008 I've had rude emails from the individual as well when I explained why I wouldn't ship to Itlay. If it's the person, I would highly recommend NOT doing any business with them.
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Do you think maybe they misunderstand what you had said? Though in Italy they usually learn English at school, maybe she doesn't know English well or not any at all? Perhaps she used a translator that messed up what you said?
I bought a couple books (Warrior Cats 'mangas') from a guy from Germany and he did not speak English, though they usually know English too.. (Luckily I understood somewhat of what he had said, and I replied in German too.. Though I think part of my reply was in English..)
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Do you think maybe they misunderstand what you had said? Though in Italy they usually learn English at school, maybe she doesn't know English well or not any at all? Perhaps she used a translator that messed up what you said?
I bought a couple books (Warrior Cats 'mangas') from a guy from Germany and he did not speak English, though they usually know English too.. (Luckily I understood somewhat of what he had said, and I replied in German too.. Though I think part of my reply was in English..)
This was my thought as well, I think sometimes things get lost in translations. It seems to me that she completely misunderstood what you were trying to get across. Maybe someone fluent in Italian could translate the message for you?
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Its definitely an overreaction in my opinion.
But after living in Italy for 6 months I have learned that ALOT of Italians do not know English. I had a hard time asking any questions in English unless I was in Rome, and sometimes Venice or Milan.
It could be she wasn't able to translate your message.
I think you were totally reasonable, but I think with the language barrier I would avoid offering to ship them.
My family had a lot of trouble sending me care packages when I was living in Italy :(
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Thanks everyone!
The way her message is worded I figured she was using a translator so that's part of the issue. I also jumped the gun and cancelled the order before hearing back first as I was afraid that she'd force the issue.
If I knew they would make there in one piece I'd just send them and be done with it...
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I've been sending things to a couple people in Italy with no problems, although things definitely take longer than they should because of customs.
My guess is that the buyer was just really disappointed and probably gets shut out of auctions all the time because people don't like to post to Italy...
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I would immediately put her on your blocked bidder list. If you send her any further messages, I would emphasize Italy's customs restrictions. It's not your fault that Italy has an embargo on non-wooden toys. Honestly, though, I don't think further contact with her will lead to anything good.
And yeah, the customs officers can and will confiscate forbidden items. Not every item--some will get through. But it is a risk.
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I genuinely think she misunderstood. Italians get the wodden toy issue all the time (and no - it is not enforced - it's an outdated law) and with limited English I bet she completely missed the part about the actual shipping cost.
I'm one of those people who can't let things go either, so I probably would write one last message reitterating.
I bet she is having a good rant about "Stupid US sellers" on her Facebook right now lol
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Silverdawn: She is not the same person as the one you posted, thank goodness!
I thought about it all yesterday and finally messaged her one last time as I just wanted to clear things up; I didn't want her to think it was because I mistrusted her/ thought Italy was a bad place.
I'm not going to post her name as I don't think she's a bad buyer but if someone wants to know you can PM me.
Thank you all so much for your help and support!!
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Hello fellow Maine person! -waves- So sorry you had to deal with all this! :( I too think this is probably a case of the buyer not totally understanding your email because of translation issues. Hopefully your second message cleared things up and she feels a little better. At least you did all you could!
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I genuinely think she misunderstood. Italians get the wodden toy issue all the time (and no - it is not enforced - it's an outdated law) and with limited English I bet she completely missed the part about the actual shipping cost.
I'm one of those people who can't let things go either, so I probably would write one last message reitterating.
I bet she is having a good rant about "Stupid US sellers" on her Facebook right now lol
I asked about this at my post office. The official customs list for Italy forbids toys not made wholly of wood (so no MLP), shipping insurance won't cover if a parcel is confiscated or lost because technically as stupid as the rule is- it was an prohibited item. All it would take is a by the book agent that day and boom- chargeback and I am out money, time and my item. I am sure it's rare that it happens, because it would be an incredible waste of resources to have enough agents to catch everything, but still a risk. On eBay I wouldn't post to Italy at all, it's expensive now to have a sellers account and you don't need to make it worse with added risk to your seller ratings and the perks maintaining a perfect one provides.
Italy collectors really need to get an exemption for vintage toys that are not toys but now collectibles for adults. Like the US with the exceptions to the lead/phthalates regulations.
*edit to add* :( It makes me really sad though. I know what it's like to have sellers not want to post to ones location. Italian collectors really get a raw deal and it's not fair.
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From her message, I wonder if she misunderstood or mistraslated the Italian customs piece. I bet putting "Italian customs" into a translator could come out to mean "Itatalian traditions," since "customs" is more commonly used to mean traditions or habits. If her understanding of English isn't advanced, perhaps she does not know the other meaning of the word. I wonder if she thought you has something again her country of origin and thought you were additionally suspicious of her character after she didn't pay immediately. The way her message reads, I can imagine her thinking this, so perhaps this could explain her response.
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From her message, I wonder if she misunderstood or mistraslated the Italian customs piece. I bet putting "Italian customs" into a translator could come out to mean "Itatalian traditions," since "customs" is more commonly used to mean traditions or habits. If her understanding of English isn't advanced, perhaps she does not know the other meaning of the word. I wonder if she thought you has something again her country of origin and thought you were additionally suspicious of her character after she didn't pay immediately. The way her message reads, I can imagine her thinking this, so perhaps this could explain her response.
I think this is exactly what happened ^^ :nod: :( I don't think she would have taken your message so hard if she had understood the real meaning. Unless she lives somewhere like a large city where there are lots of international people or international trading , or she works at a place where there are lots of tourists ( or of course shes carried on learning English after school) then theres a good chance she doesn't speak it much , if at all looking at her response, or even if she does then unless she is very fluent its still likely that she assumed that you meant "traditions" rather than the other meaning of "customs" that we would use in this situation. There are definitely still parts of Italy where not many locals will know English,or they know only basic English - especially in the more remote parts of Italy. :awake:
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I think
2/ Honestly tell your buyer that you don't ship to Italy, apologize and tell them there was an error in the listing. Refund them.
I think is the better
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From her message, I wonder if she misunderstood or mistraslated the Italian customs piece. I bet putting "Italian customs" into a translator could come out to mean "Itatalian traditions," since "customs" is more commonly used to mean traditions or habits. If her understanding of English isn't advanced, perhaps she does not know the other meaning of the word. I wonder if she thought you has something again her country of origin and thought you were additionally suspicious of her character after she didn't pay immediately. The way her message reads, I can imagine her thinking this, so perhaps this could explain her response.
I think this is exactly what happened ^^ :nod: :( I don't think she would have taken your message so hard if she had understood the real meaning. Unless she lives somewhere like a large city where there are lots of international people or international trading , or she works at a place where there are lots of tourists ( or of course shes carried on learning English after school) then theres a good chance she doesn't speak it much , if at all looking at her response, or even if she does then unless she is very fluent its still likely that she assumed that you meant "traditions" rather than the other meaning of "customs" that we would use in this situation. There are definitely still parts of Italy where not many locals will know English,or they know only basic English - especially in the more remote parts of Italy. :awake:
That's what I guessed as well, in my last message to her I clarified that. She did agree to the cancellation but did not respond to my offer. Oh well, least that's over!
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:bigups: I'm glad its sorted now and she agreed to the cancellation too :hug:
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From her message, I wonder if she misunderstood or mistraslated the Italian customs piece. I bet putting "Italian customs" into a translator could come out to mean "Itatalian traditions," since "customs" is more commonly used to mean traditions or habits. If her understanding of English isn't advanced, perhaps she does not know the other meaning of the word. I wonder if she thought you has something again her country of origin and thought you were additionally suspicious of her character after she didn't pay immediately. The way her message reads, I can imagine her thinking this, so perhaps this could explain her response.
I think this is exactly what happened ^^ :nod: :( I don't think she would have taken your message so hard if she had understood the real meaning. Unless she lives somewhere like a large city where there are lots of international people or international trading , or she works at a place where there are lots of tourists ( or of course shes carried on learning English after school) then theres a good chance she doesn't speak it much , if at all looking at her response, or even if she does then unless she is very fluent its still likely that she assumed that you meant "traditions" rather than the other meaning of "customs" that we would use in this situation. There are definitely still parts of Italy where not many locals will know English,or they know only basic English - especially in the more remote parts of Italy. :awake:
Oh I bet you are right! That dang translator program really can be so tricky sometimes! I guess that is why I prefer to sell only to the people in Italy who are REALLY familiar with buying from the US. They know exactly what to put into the customs form to keep Italian customs from keeping it- and when their customs office does inevitably hold the package, they know who to call and what to do to get it out.
Alternatively, I think the easiest way around the complicated customs rules/danger on ebay itself is to just use that stupid ebay international postal shipping- even though I know it costs WAY more and drives off 80% of potential buyers- at least your risk ends when you mail it to the shipping center that is in the US- who then sends it to the country of the person who bought it. Then, if something goes wrong or a package gets lost in customs, ebay has to take responsibility instead of you.
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I am glad this is all moving towards resolution now but I found it interesting as I did not know the reason why so many people nixed Italy from their shipping options. I got to thinking about whether this has any impact from an EU country, where we don't require custom forms, and I decided that, no, it probably doesn't. (Although it might if we leave the EU). But I do also wonder whether this law had any impact on Hasbro's decision to make ponies IN Italy back in the 1980s...to get around custom limits or fees that were higher than trade made sensible.
I will refrain from commenting on the other issues involved.
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vintage toys that are not toys but now collectibles for adults.
I think that might be the solution. Even if it technically is a "toy", vintage ponies are not being bought for the usual purpose of a toy, which is to be played with by children. Labeling it as a "adult collectible pony figurine" while just a small difference in wording, could make a huge difference since the rule does not apply to collectibles, only children's toys.
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vintage toys that are not toys but now collectibles for adults.
I think that might be the solution. Even if it technically is a "toy", vintage ponies are not being bought for the usual purpose of a toy, which is to be played with by children. Labeling it as a "adult collectible pony figurine" while just a small difference in wording, could make a huge difference since the rule does not apply to collectibles, only children's toys.
I was a child when I started collecting vintage toys (Though I'm only 14 now, if you still count that as a child). Vintage toys are bought by both adults and children, it appear it is more common for adults to buy vintage toys.