The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Taffeta on June 04, 2019, 05:55:53 AM
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Going through the MLP&Friends comics I got recently from LM (most of which I never even saw as a kid, ironically) and noticed this.
Just to prove that G1 MLP stories were officially for boys to enjoy too.
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I remember boys at school who had ponies. One of my friends' had two younger brothers - one had Tootsie and the other Magic Star (I remember as I was jealous of MS XD).
So much for G4 fans thinking G4 was the first time the male fanbase had any wider acknowledgement.
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I love that!!!! I do know in Greece MLP was marketed at boys and girls as the promotional material said "children" rather than "girls" or "boys".
Love pkw xxx
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That's really interesting. :) I've got to get some of the comics someday.
I've always felt that Rescue at Midnight Castle/original My Little Pony special was made so that boys and girls could enjoy it.
Ponyfan
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Huh. I always thought the g1 specials like rescue at midnight castle were made for children in general, rather than one or the other. Good to know hasbro has tried to appeal to both genders before g4.
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Aww, that’s so cool! :) Nice find, Taffeta!
I’m a big fan of toys being marketed as gender-neutral... Kids don’t start attaching gender to everything until adults teach them to do so. :/
Out of curiosity, is that a U.S. or U.K. comic?
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awww, hehe. I love it.
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:D! I'm glad they included it, although wasn't Jem also made with both genders in mind? Like they included like racing and stuff (Idk I'm not a Jem fan)
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That is so cute!
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Very positive message- love it
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Cool find you two.
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I feel that Bonnie at the very least said that it would be nice if girls and boys could enjoy My Little Pony, though I don't know if she literally said she planned on it being for both. Or it could have been that she was pleased to hear that boys liked it - I'm sure she touched on this subject in one way or another.
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Aww, that’s so cool! :) Nice find, Taffeta!
I’m a big fan of toys being marketed as gender-neutral... Kids don’t start attaching gender to everything until adults teach them to do so. :/
Out of curiosity, is that a U.S. or U.K. comic?
It's a UK comic. :)
@freezestime, I know there are quite a lot of Jem fans who are guys, albeit I am not sure it's for those reasons. Jem is definitely aimed towards girls but although there's a lot of fashion flapping from Kimber especially, there's a bunch more stuff going on as well. Though I have to admit Rio and Riot both kind of fail the chauvenism test. I guess it was the eighties. Probably so does Eric but he's rather a jerk anyway.
Some of the most dedicated contributors to the community over the years in terms of resources etc have been guys (eg TotallyJem). But the Indy500 did definitely appear in a Jem ep. It does rather showcase how not to drive, though, and also that Jem has no respect for the lives of other drivers because she's willing to use Synergy to make Pizzazz crash and who knows who else. So maybe not the best example, morally speaking...;)
I should also mention that because this is a UK comic, it's not necessarily "from Hasbro" but from the comic themselves. Whether it was endorsed by Hasbro or promoted in that way is unclear. But I also think some of the TV specials are not gender specific in their aim.
I also feel the need to say that "being girly" is often considered to fit a certain stereotype. I don't think RamC etc are "more adventury" to appeal to guys. That rather suggests girls can't like those things too, which is the fundamental problem behind some of the themes heavily pushed in G4. (Can't Rarity be a successful businesswoman in something other than fashion, and does she have to be so superficially obsessed with clothing, hair, and jewellery??)
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I feel that Bonnie at the very least said that it would be nice if girls and boys could enjoy My Little Pony, though I don't know if she literally said she planned on it being for both. Or it could have been that she was pleased to hear that boys liked it - I'm sure she touched on this subject in one way or another.
Forget exactly what Bonnie said... someone did ask her thoughts on the brony fandom, was some kind of compliment/respect thing
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I was a g1 pony boy as a kid and i never felt uncomfortable collecting ponies :)
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I feel that Bonnie at the very least said that it would be nice if girls and boys could enjoy My Little Pony, though I don't know if she literally said she planned on it being for both. Or it could have been that she was pleased to hear that boys liked it - I'm sure she touched on this subject in one way or another.
Forget exactly what Bonnie said... someone did ask her thoughts on the brony fandom, was some kind of compliment/respect thing
This was in 2008, well before the whole brony thing, but Bonnie did say explicitly that her initial, more naturalistic concept for MLP was intended for all little kids:
"It was first a preschool toy. It wasn't supposed to be a Girl Toy. But of course, when they changed it to pink-and-purple, it became a mostly girls' toy. And not to say there weren't little boys who liked to play with them, because they did... And I felt bad, you know. It's like, why shouldn't little boys play with ponies too?"
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Well imagine that. :biggrin:
Which issue is it in? I might get me a copy.
I was a g1 pony boy as a kid and i never felt uncomfortable collecting ponies :)
I'm sure at some point I brought one or two of mine to school with me (I know i brought my Starlight plush for show and tell once ^^; ).
Funny thing is I'm a lot more conscience about it today than I was back then.
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That's super cool!
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I also feel the need to say that "being girly" is often considered to fit a certain stereotype. I don't think RamC etc are "more adventury" to appeal to guys. That rather suggests girls can't like those things too, which is the fundamental problem behind some of the themes heavily pushed in G4. (Can't Rarity be a successful businesswoman in something other than fashion, and does she have to be so superficially obsessed with clothing, hair, and jewellery??)
Well, it’s not as though there’s anything wrong with liking fashion, hair, and jewelry... I always kind of related to Rarity most of the mane six, due to her prissiness (if you’d ever been on a hike with me, you’d know what I mean) and love of fashion design. XD I feel like G4 does a decent job of showing all kinds of girls: Rainbow Dash is an athlete, Twilight is a nerd, Applejack is outdoorsy and likes farm life... Each of them is very successful in their own field (RD later joins the Wonderbolts, which is a military-esque organization, and Applejack operates a thriving farm with her family), so I don’t think the show presses only stereotypical careers on girls, by any means.
I think the overarching message in a lot of “girl-aimed” properties these days is “it’s okay to be you—whether you love science, sports, engineering, fashion, or all of the above”. For that matter, I hope any boys watching the show feel free to enjoy fashion and whatnot just as freely as the girls. :)
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I remember babysitting a little boy who had a pony. I can’t remember which pony but it was cute. Honestly, I think the bright colors and sweet expressions tend to appeal a lot to toddlers. I think it’s kind of mean when adults forbid their sons to play with “girl toys”.
And it’s not just ponies. All little kids like to imitate adults... and what are the adults in their lives doing? Cuddling and nurturing little kids. It makes perfect sense that many little boys are interested in taking care of and having adventures with toys with “baby” features.
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I don't think G4 is any worse than any other gen when it comes to pushing love of fashion. G1 had Heart Throb, G2 had Ivy, G3 had Rainbow Dash. G1 also had an entire fashion clothes line, just like Barbie, G2 had lots of ponies that came with skirts, bracelets, etc, and G3 had lots of dress up sets.
Lots of kids (girls AND boys) are interested in fashion, which is why toy companies tend to have a fashionable character. I only find it tiresome when that's the whole point of the line, like Bratz (rip) or Equestria Girls. Like, I get why they want every EQG to have her own pretty dress, but at the same time it is totally out of character for Rainbow Dash or Applejack to be fancy all the time.
It's too bad they didn't put Rainbow Dash in a street fashion with distressed jeans and an ironic t-shirt, which can also be "a look", but isn't exactly "fashion", if that makes sense. Like I know I just dragged on Bratz, but at the same time Bratz knew that there are looks out there other than "a fancy dress". They had clothes that you could actually believe a real human being would wear in their everyday life.
Edit: I will say I thought the jointed EGQ mini-figures had more "realistic" styles than the full size dolls, both in terms of "Oh, someone might wear that" and in terms of "Oh, that character might wear that." Like Fluttershy being in full scuba gear, not a frilly bathing suit. Totally makes sense that Fluttershy would want to go deep diving to see wildlife.
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Tbh I didn't even know there was pony wear as a kid. ^^;
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I knew about it because I kept the brochures that came with that ponies. My top desired ponywears were:
Hearts & Candy
the royal cape one (Pony Royal?)
Flashprance
From the Designer Collection
Great Skates
But somehow the one I ended up with was Party Time (the ponywear, not the pony). Which was okay, but not a fave. I was happy to finally get Hearts & Candy when I started collecting as an adult.
On the topic of boys and ponies, when my little cousins came to visit me they were all fascinated with my MLP collection and started arranging them into families, including my boy cousins. They also decided Ice Crystal was the mom of the family, which just goes to show you can't judge by appearances with ponies either. ;)
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Hearts and Candy is freaking cute! I want it too.
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I had Hearts & Candy (called My Valentine over here), Champagne & Lace and Tennis Fun as a kid for ponywear. There may have been others but they stick in my mind. I wasn't huge on dressing my ponies up, especially with the shoes, which my little fingers hated and basically gave up when it came to the C&L slippers. I kind of never saw them like doll clothes though, let alone fashion...as ponies didn't need to wear stuff...? And I wasn't into dolls.
There's nothing wrong with those things for girls either, I just wanted to make the point that we can't define what the audience is for the original animation based on how adventurey it is. It's a common and unfortunate assumption that girls can't just like that stuff anyway. At school with my friends (male and female) our ponies fought wars against invading zombie warlords. So anyway. Just wanted to put that out there. I feel my point has been taken off the point...which is that it's wearing that Hasbro chose those stereotypes to underscore Rarity's character.
There's also a difference for me between Heart Throb and Rarity simply because G1 didn't operate a M6 structure, thus HT is not as core to the story as Rarity is. Personally I think G4's girls are all stereotypes, not actually relateable as 'female characters', but that's just me. The other gens had their fair share of animated stereotypes as well. I'm not a huge fan of G1 animation, but at least watching it I don't feel like gender stereotypes are being pushed at me in the way I do feel when in the past I've watched G4 (or even maybe G3). There's a difference between interested in fashion, and 'hair, make up, nails, dahling'.
@Lonewolf - I think from the photos I took, MLP & Friends issue #27.
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I loved G1 My Little Pony for the adventure but a fashion show here and there didn’t bother me. Looking back, I think they had a nice balance between the two.
The only fashion I had was the one with hair rollers. I loved how cuddly my pony was in her PJs. :P
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I had Hearts & Candy (called My Valentine over here), Champagne & Lace and Tennis Fun as a kid for ponywear. There may have been others but they stick in my mind. I wasn't huge on dressing my ponies up, especially with the shoes, which my little fingers hated and basically gave up when it came to the C&L slippers. I kind of never saw them like doll clothes though, let alone fashion...as ponies didn't need to wear stuff...? And I wasn't into dolls.
There's nothing wrong with those things for girls either, I just wanted to make the point that we can't define what the audience is for the original animation based on how adventurey it is. It's a common and unfortunate assumption that girls can't just like that stuff anyway. At school with my friends (male and female) our ponies fought wars against invading zombie warlords. So anyway. Just wanted to put that out there. I feel my point has been taken off the point...which is that it's wearing that Hasbro chose those stereotypes to underscore Rarity's character.
There's also a difference for me between Heart Throb and Rarity simply because G1 didn't operate a M6 structure, thus HT is not as core to the story as Rarity is. Personally I think G4's girls are all stereotypes, not actually relateable as 'female characters', but that's just me. The other gens had their fair share of animated stereotypes as well. I'm not a huge fan of G1 animation, but at least watching it I don't feel like gender stereotypes are being pushed at me in the way I do feel when in the past I've watched G4 (or even maybe G3). There's a difference between interested in fashion, and 'hair, make up, nails, dahling'.
@Lonewolf - I think from the photos I took, MLP & Friends issue #27.
I know what you mean. It really steams me when people act like girls didn't have any adventurous shows made for them till the 2000s. We had more then, then we do now tbh.
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I really love how that message makes boys feel included and not the odd ones out if they like MLP and then comes back around to make sure girls still feel included too in that message. That was pretty awesome.
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Aww, this is so sweet. Ponies are for everyone:)
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There's nothing wrong with those things for girls either, I just wanted to make the point that we can't define what the audience is for the original animation based on how adventurey it is. It's a common and unfortunate assumption that girls can't just like that stuff anyway. At school with my friends (male and female) our ponies fought wars against invading zombie warlords. So anyway. Just wanted to put that out there. I feel my point has been taken off the point...which is that it's wearing that Hasbro chose those stereotypes to underscore Rarity's character.
There's also a difference for me between Heart Throb and Rarity simply because G1 didn't operate a M6 structure, thus HT is not as core to the story as Rarity is. Personally I think G4's girls are all stereotypes, not actually relateable as 'female characters', but that's just me. The other gens had their fair share of animated stereotypes as well. I'm not a huge fan of G1 animation, but at least watching it I don't feel like gender stereotypes are being pushed at me in the way I do feel when in the past I've watched G4 (or even maybe G3). There's a difference between interested in fashion, and 'hair, make up, nails, dahling’.
Lol, I made up plots like that with my ponies when I was a kid. Lots of epic battles for the fate of Ponyland and whatnot. XD I did tea parties and fashion shows too, though.
G4 fluctuates between slice-of-life and epic adventure (especially in later seasons), so I feel like it usually strikes a good balance. The characters DO fit into traditional character tropes, but they also have certain qualities that I think were introduced especially to go against those tropes (i.e. Rarity’s generosity). Their personalities can be a little over the top, but that’s kind of how the show is styled. It’s not for everyone, and that’s okay. :)
Anyway, I think I get what you’re saying, though I don’t necessarily agree on all points. I hope I didn’t make you feel as though you were being attacked or anything, though! :hug: Everyone is entitled to liking what they like and feeling how they feel. :)
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What a cute note from Megan!
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This is so awesome! I remember possibly reading someplace that Zacherle herself wanted pony to be considered to be more gender neutral. Sort of like Care Bears I'd guess. Maybe that's partially why they made the Big Brothers and other male characters.
Of course, we know that anybody can like anything regardless of their gender identity, but I think it would be cool for pony to be seen as more neutral earlier on than it was. As in during Gen 3 even, when it was arguably the most ""girly.""
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I for once am tired of the debate if MLP is for boys or not. It's a freaking horse toy.
If parents feel some type of way about that they better never let their sons watch Sea Biscuit, War Horse or all these other movies that praise men for their special friendship with horses.
If you are a woman and like horses, you always get pushed into the kids/teen category. Even books are mostly YA. Serious movies with big budgets are male-dominated, even the horses that appear in them tend to be all stallions.
Even when you are a girl and like horses you are often considered a stupid "horse girl" and hardly get any praise for it. People infantilize your interest and you get subjected to weird psycho-analysis and ridicule. You don't want to know the weird crap people have come up with in the past to explain why girls like horses... :lookround:
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Awww that's so cute! I know my friend's little brother has a bunch of ponies he likes to play with (although they're knock-off MLP). He'll run around going 'Orse! 'Orse! (he can't say horse correctly, it's the cutest thing) I'm sure if he grows up to start collecting MLP he'd appreciate this. :)
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I for once am tired of the debate if MLP is for boys or not. It's a freaking horse toy.
It's not really being debated, though. The UK comic unequivocally said that pony stories are for boys and girls and encouraged boys to write in and send photos as well as girls. Which has to be a good thing, right?
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I for once am tired of the debate if MLP is for boys or not. It's a freaking horse toy.
If parents feel some type of way about that they better never let their sons watch Sea Biscuit, War Horse or all these other movies that praise men for their special friendship with horses.
If you are a woman and like horses, you always get pushed into the kids/teen category. Even books are mostly YA. Serious movies with big budgets are male-dominated, even the horses that appear in them tend to be all stallions.
Even when you are a girl and like horses you are often considered a stupid "horse girl" and hardly get any praise for it. People infantilize your interest and you get subjected to weird psycho-analysis and ridicule. You don't want to know the weird crap people have come up with in the past to explain why girls like horses... :lookround:
I've never heard anything derogatory about being a horse crazy girl.
I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen, I'm just saying my friends and I never encountered that sort of stigma or negativity from it from others. So our experiences are quite different.
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The UK comic unequivocally said that pony stories are for boys and girls and encouraged boys to write in and send photos as well as girls. Which has to be a good thing, right?
I'd say it's a very good thing if you ask me!
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
I’m so sorry that that happened to you, BubbleTea. :( :hug: I just don’t understand why some people are so caught up in gender stereotypes, to the point that they would not allow a child to play with a toy pony...
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
I’m so sorry that that happened to you, BubbleTea. :( :hug: I just don’t understand why some people are so caught up in gender stereotypes, to the point that they would not allow a child to play with a toy pony...
Thanks Nemesis. :)
The thing that still bothers me is that they weren't even that girly. They weren't even PINK (they had a strict no- pink rule :nuts:) They were just green and purple. I already had green and purple things. The only thing that made them "unsuitable" for me was the brand recognition and mlp being " for girls" .
That doesn't mean that I didn't get to play with mlps though. My cousin had them and I would always play with them when I was over. :)
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
I’m so sorry that that happened to you, BubbleTea. :( :hug: I just don’t understand why some people are so caught up in gender stereotypes, to the point that they would not allow a child to play with a toy pony...
Thanks Nemesis. :)
The thing that still bothers me is that they weren't even that girly. They weren't even PINK (they had a strict no- pink rule :nuts:) They were just green and purple. I already had green and purple things. The only thing that made them "unsuitable" for me was the brand recognition and mlp being " for girls" .
That doesn't mean that I didn't get to play with mlps though. My cousin had them and I would always play with them when I was over. :)
It makes me so sad to hear about little kids being stuffed into gender stereotypes... I hope that toxic aspect of our culture is fading away. Hasbro recently featured a boy on the back of a “Guardians of Harmony” box (front and center!) playing with ponies alongside a girl. It’s been so nice to see various “boy” or “girl” brands including both genders in advertising over the last few years.
I’m glad you got to play with your cousin’s collection, though! At least now, you’re free to have all the MLPs you like. :)
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
That is so sad
and ironic as in real-life horses have been associated with both males and females for millenia across many many cultures
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I'm really glad that they did this because I wasn't allowed to have mlp when I was little. I remember one time a loooooooooooooooong time ago my mom finally gave in and bought me a little tube of fakies while we were grocery shopping. I had a blast with them until my dad got home and they all mysteriously vanished.....
I can't believe some parents could have this much problem with toy horses :sad: The world would be a way better place if more boys were allowed to play with ponies when they were little.
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Yeah. Not to bring my geeky academic ramblings onto the pony forum, but I just basically wrote a whole PhD about the relationship in warrior literature between Japanese warriors and their horses and the one instance there is in that of a woman on a horse, she's basically depicted as the men are, like a 'warrior' with the 'warrior spirit'.
On top of which in traditional Japan, pink isn't a feminine colour as it's associated with the cherry blossom, which may just be a nice pretty flower these days, but which was a symbol of a short and flourishing life (ie, like that of the warrior) and often appeared on the breastplate of warrior armour.
So all these stupid stereotypes in the modern age of girly horsy ridingy pink things are just nonsense.
And parents who stop their kids having the toys they like for gender reasons make me angry.
I was lucky as a kid, as a girl I could;ve just been swamped with barbie but I was allowed to choose my toys. I had ghostbusters, ponies, fraggles, an electric railway (and several other railway sets) and I loved all of them because my parents didn't think they needed to make me choose a toy based on which aisle it was in.
I feel genuinely sorry for those people who didn't have that experience and esp. with the pony collecting guys - I'm really just glad you made it here in the end and got to make your own choices.
It's kind of why I wanted to post that comic thing, because even as a kid I remember the boys in the playground singing my little pony, skinny and bony, and throwing the ponies up on the roof - but we took them in hand and scared them stupid and then there were boys who were more happy to join in playing ponies with us. I mean, we played pony zombie warlord empire games anyway...so just judging based on "it's a pastel pony" is really lame...
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Taffeta, your PhD sounds fascinating. I know very little about Japanese equestrian culture - are there parallels with the European traditions of the horseman?
Sorry if going off topic a bit (though it is relevant as this 'ponies are for girls' is a very very modern phenomenon and far from universal)
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Taffeta, your PhD sounds fascinating. I know very little about Japanese equestrian culture - are there parallels with the European traditions of the horseman?
Sorry if going off topic a bit (though it is relevant as this 'ponies are for girls' is a very very modern phenomenon and far from universal)
Yeah, although the way horses are used in the warrior literature is a lot more than just as a weapon of war ;D
The traditional term for the Japanese way of the warrior is not bushidou but the kyuuba no michi - the way of the bow and the horse - which is what defined warrior culture back before the Edo period. Most people think of samurai with swords and in terms of bushidou and Hagakure but that was all constructed much later and somewhat in a time when there was no real warrior activity. So there are all these images of the mounted warrior that blur with legend and become really powerful symbols and even propagandistic.
But that is as much as I'm going to take that off topic. Suffice it to say that in some ways, a warrior is defined by the horse he keeps, and in the case of the female warrior, Tomoe, when she loses her horse, she also loses her equal status as a feared warrior. :)