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Author Topic: About Feminine things  (Read 1568 times)

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Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2021, 08:18:19 PM »
Cringe culture was mostly invented by people stuck in a high school mentality anyway. It takes a pretty big inferiority complex to want to target other people for having different hobbies or interests.

I mean, I don't understand why people collect stamps, or action figures, or cars. But all power to them. It's their life.

And if someone wants to dress like a rock star from the eighties and visit their local library (actually happened to me with a customer when I worked there), also, all power to them.

Life is short. It should be full of things that make you happy, not chains laid down by other people who are not.
well said  :happy:
Growing up, I was full of internalized misogyny, and I did my best to be "not like the other girls." Which is really lame, since I missed out on so much. As an adult, I LOVE any and all things girly! Being a girl is nothing to be ashamed of.
internalized misogyny is why a lot of bullying happens I think. Glad you grew out of it in a healthy way
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Offline Zapper

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2021, 10:43:01 AM »
Warning: this post is generally speaking in regards to the topic at large, if anyone feels personally attacked that's their business :|

"Girly" and "boyish" are both dumb concepts considering most of it is based on societal pressures. Also, girly girls are mostly bullied by boys, who then turn out to be most attracted to them once puberty kicks in. It's literally boys and men hating you but also wanting to be with you. You need to seek that convo with them.
You can't ask other girls to always tolerate your stuff, either. This might hurt to hear, I know. As most girls and young women have learned to feel helpless and avoid conflict and let tensions brew until it all escalates. But you gotta seek confrontation once in a while. Don't always run from your bullies, give them a piece of your mind. If possible, ask them why they are thinking the way they think (only possible if they are not trolls, not always obvious if on the internet).

A lot of stuff considered "feminine" is also about material goods and certain styles/looks nowadays and pointing that out is perfectly fine once in a while. On a darker note, materialism gets also pushed onto women as a means to deplete our own income now that we are (mostly) able to have it. We really don't need 20 make-up pallettes, 30 pairs of handbags, 100 MLPS :P just to be able to fit in as totes feminine and therefore good women. A woman who invests money into her own business or charity or kids is also objectively smarter as a woman who gets 20 high heels for the same amount of money. No "feminine bashing" here, ma'am/sir. Sometimes it's just facts.

On weakness being seen as feminine and practical being seen as masculine:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

"Feminine" just means "asociated with female" and therefore, most things could be feminine. Not just bows and pink and Animal Crossing.

Also, as someone who was a "tomboy" in terms of behaviour and style, I gotta say the girly girls could be really viscious about these things, too. They'd view any girl who didn't look like them as an enemy and try to tear them down for their looks. It didn't matter if you shared interests with them. You HAD to wear skirts and have long hair like a pony, even though both wasn't practical. Boys would pull up your skirt and long hair was a mess to deal with if you wanted to be out and about in nature and get all sorts of things stuck in it. So why have it? Because it's "feminine"? So what?

Just food for thought.

Tl;Dr: What people consider "feminine" can be fake and often hinders girls and women. Try to see the bigger picture to better deal with societal concepts and pressures.

Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2021, 07:55:53 PM »
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
I think there's a lot of nuance to being human in general. Society likes to put people in boxes and then a fuss is had when they don't fit.
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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2021, 08:31:06 PM »
I agree with the above.

It also doesn't help because as autistic women we don't have those boxes in our head and don't really understand them.

I think Zapper's points are not wrong, but I also think the autism complicates the situation here because of the different relationship between gender identity and the spectrum in general.
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Offline lovesbabysquirmy

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2021, 12:36:33 AM »
everybody is right!  oh except the haters.  ;)

« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 12:39:51 AM by lovesbabysquirmy »
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Offline Ponybookworm

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2021, 03:56:05 AM »
I don't hate pink. I don't hate make-up. I don't hate dresses, skirts, or tights. I don't hate handbags or make-up. I don't even hate fashion, romance novels, baby dolls, boy bands, vases, or tea parties.

What I hate is being EXPECTED to ONLY like, wear, or do these things. I'm more than that, & so is every woman & girl out there.

It's fine to embrace the female. But I don't want to see somebody wear pink & not say it's their favourite colour. I don't want to see somebody in a skirt which makes them feel overexposed & uncomfortable. I don't want to see somebody told "no, that's for boys to play with. How about a nice dolly???"

Dolls, Pink, skirts, heels, & all the rest should be acceptable preferences, not limiting restrictions.

Oh & I also can't stand hearing "no, that's for girls to play with. How about a fun toy car???"
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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2021, 08:11:41 AM »
This too ^^.

I feel like a woman should be able to make those calls for herself. That's part of being treated as a whole and equal human being.

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Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2021, 09:34:21 PM »
I agree with the above.

It also doesn't help because as autistic women we don't have those boxes in our head and don't really understand them.

I think Zapper's points are not wrong, but I also think the autism complicates the situation here because of the different relationship between gender identity and the spectrum in general.
I have a tendency to make connections more than boxes. I do like labels when it comes to identity and such but that's mostly because I have built myself out of different interests in my life rather than fitting myself into topics. ( I feel like that didn't make sense)
This too ^^.

I feel like a woman should be able to make those calls for herself. That's part of being treated as a whole and equal human being.


Exactly, I'm gonna expand that to everyone should be able to make those calls. It's part of why I'm going to raise my future kids in a gender neutral way. Let them find there own gender and not force them to stick to one expression or the other.
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Offline Beth3346

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2021, 12:21:16 AM »
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 12:29:30 AM »
i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.

This times 100.

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Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2021, 05:16:13 AM »
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   
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Offline Beth3346

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2021, 02:11:38 PM »
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   

I find it pretty disturbing that she was encouraged to like violent things. Some parts of the internet are pretty scary.
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Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2021, 08:21:31 PM »
I definitely agree with Zapper's point about marketing and how it encourages buying excessive amounts of clothes and makeup, etc. the marketing for "masculine" products feels just as gross or even grosser to me. we watch a lot of football and every other commercial is for "tough" trucks or hyper aggressive home improvement ads. and i'm constantly asking my partner what is going on with men? it's so obvious that they are trying to make it seem like you need to spend thousands of dollars to prove your manhood. i do live in Texas so maybe it's regional. but ugh. there are even doctor's offices and hair salons for men that are advertised in an aggressively "masculine" way. it's weird.

i would prefer more gender neutral options. or for traditionally girly or boyish things to be less associated with certain genders. all of these gender norms and expectations are bad for everyone.

i do feel like some of this is starting to change with younger people at least. i'm a geriatric millennial so when i was growing up it was more about the traditional gender roles. maybe some of the pushback is just people trying to hold on to their comfort zone. i just wish people would mind their own business. whatever you like it's fine. just be kind to others. life is hard enough without the hatefulness.
Yeah one of the things my friend struggled with was because she was bullied to act more like a tomboy she was kind of gaslit into thinking that she was supposed to like violent things as well.
She's in her 30's but needs much more care when it comes to her autism so I'm like a mental check in for her.
Things do seem to be changing when it comes to being in other's business, we're at least aware that "cringe" is now just expressions of being oneself.   

I find it pretty disturbing that she was encouraged to like violent things. Some parts of the internet are pretty scary.
yeah it was scary to hear about. She still has some trauma responses  :sad:
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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2021, 09:37:47 PM »
What makes this so horrible for me is that people on the spectrum generally are more sensitive to the behaviour and mood of other people than someone not on the spectrum. We do have problems sometimes reading that mood correctly, but hostile energy, we pick up on very easily. It's also much harder to create a sense of 'self', I forget what it's called but there's some research that has proven that autistic people struggle to identify themselves and thus are more likely to build on the opinions or expectations of people outside. And this can be really dangerous, especially if the people outside are trash.

It's really possible to create massive amounts of trauma in an autistic person from something that someone else might just laugh at and call a joke. Telling her that she would become evil for being 'girly' and had to change how she acted - given that people on the spectrum are constantly being told to change/act a certain way/conform/whatever...would have been traumatic.

Just makes me sad as a fellow autistic person that she had to go through that, and I really hope she's able to come through it and find confidence in being herself.

It would be really nice if people didn't put so much pressure on others to be something they aren't, basically. And gave them some time to figure out for themselves who they are...
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Offline DreamsofUnicorn

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Re: About Feminine things
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2021, 10:48:36 AM »
What makes this so horrible for me is that people on the spectrum generally are more sensitive to the behaviour and mood of other people than someone not on the spectrum. We do have problems sometimes reading that mood correctly, but hostile energy, we pick up on very easily. It's also much harder to create a sense of 'self', I forget what it's called but there's some research that has proven that autistic people struggle to identify themselves and thus are more likely to build on the opinions or expectations of people outside. And this can be really dangerous, especially if the people outside are trash.

It's really possible to create massive amounts of trauma in an autistic person from something that someone else might just laugh at and call a joke. Telling her that she would become evil for being 'girly' and had to change how she acted - given that people on the spectrum are constantly being told to change/act a certain way/conform/whatever...would have been traumatic.

Just makes me sad as a fellow autistic person that she had to go through that, and I really hope she's able to come through it and find confidence in being herself.

It would be really nice if people didn't put so much pressure on others to be something they aren't, basically. And gave them some time to figure out for themselves who they are...
she's healed a lot and it helps that her boyfriend loves that she's a girly girl. Nowadays the only real thing that upsets her is drama. She'll have her moments of self doubt but it's much rarer.
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