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Author Topic: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn  (Read 2568 times)

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Offline Mana Minori

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Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« on: October 22, 2020, 08:22:48 PM »
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It's canon. The show staff and IDW staff have confirmed that what happens in the comics and pony books are canon until the show itself contradicts it, so I'm taking their word that its canon. Anyway, I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone ( to my knowledge) talking about the adorable addition to the alicorn family- that being, Celestia (and Luna's, I'm assuming) cousin, Leon. Granted, he's only shown up in the French magazine, but hey- canon, still, says show staff. He looks exactly like Prince Blueblood, Luna and Celestia's nephew, by adoption, but he's an alicorn. The similarities in appearance to Blue make me want to think that Leon is either Blueblood's younger brother (or clone?) and just an ascended alicorn, at such a young age, or a born alicorn, and whatever bloodline he came from has someone in there with some crazy strong genes, to get their stallions coming out looking that identical to one another, in ages so far apart.
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Offline Marshie

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 09:55:31 PM »
If he was born an alicorn, I'm curious if it was by another alicorn or if it's an extremely rare case of genetics. If by another alicorn, who? I don't know much about other canon things from other countries so I'm not sure if there are other alicorns overseas?
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Offline Shaz

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2020, 01:55:39 AM »
The TV show is obviously in denial about how many alicorns there are :lol:. The toy-line has Skyla, Sterling and Gold Lily as well.

I like that Blueblood's name in French is....Vladimir. A wonderfully random choice of name. Then again, it does mean 'powerful ruler'. Is he more than just an indolent aristocrat? Does he have his own country somewhere? Does he hail from the pony equivalent of Russia? Or perhaps from a pony country known as Ro-mane-ia :lol:?

Also, if Vladimir (that's now his name as far as I'm concerned. Much better than Blueblood) is a nephew and Léon is a cousin, just how closely are the two actually related? Vladimir must be the son of a sibling of Celestia, which is interesting since she apparently only has one sister and Luna has been on the moon for a thousand years and hardly had time for procreating. Unless of course she had a foal before her exile? And is Vladimir that actual foal, or do unicorns not live that long? Is he actually a great-great-great-great-etc nephew? And a cousin must be a child of one of Celestia's parents' siblings. Unless of course he's actually something like a second cousin or a cousin once removed in which case he could theoretically be Vladimir's son or nephew (but not his brother, otherwise he would be Celestia's nephew too).

So much to speculate on! G4 canon is more interesting than I thought. Although probably the reality is 'the writers of the French magazine wanted to introduce characters that are randomly related to the royals, so they did' :lol:.

Edit to add:
Ooh wait, I see Vladimir is a nephew by adoption! I didn't know about that. Is adopting family members something Celestia and Luna do?

Offline Mana Minori

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 06:26:30 AM »
The TV show is obviously in denial about how many alicorns there are :lol:. The toy-line has Skyla, Sterling and Gold Lily as well.

I like that Blueblood's name in French is....Vladimir. A wonderfully random choice of name. Then again, it does mean 'powerful ruler'. Is he more than just an indolent aristocrat? Does he have his own country somewhere? Does he hail from the pony equivalent of Russia? Or perhaps from a pony country known as Ro-mane-ia :lol:?

Also, if Vladimir (that's now his name as far as I'm concerned. Much better than Blueblood) is a nephew and Léon is a cousin, just how closely are the two actually related? Vladimir must be the son of a sibling of Celestia, which is interesting since she apparently only has one sister and Luna has been on the moon for a thousand years and hardly had time for procreating. Unless of course she had a foal before her exile? And is Vladimir that actual foal, or do unicorns not live that long? Is he actually a great-great-great-great-etc nephew? And a cousin must be a child of one of Celestia's parents' siblings. Unless of course he's actually something like a second cousin or a cousin once removed in which case he could theoretically be Vladimir's son or nephew (but not his brother, otherwise he would be Celestia's nephew too).

So much to speculate on! G4 canon is more interesting than I thought. Although probably the reality is 'the writers of the French magazine wanted to introduce characters that are randomly related to the royals, so they did' :lol:.

Edit to add:
Ooh wait, I see Vladimir is a nephew by adoption! I didn't know about that. Is adopting family members something Celestia and Luna do?

Cadance is also niece by adoption, which would make her also related to Blueblood and Léon, legally, anyway. And since Cadance is married to Shining Armor, the entire Sparkle family (and Spike) are also related to Celestia and Luna.

And so is Star Tracker (who was appointed as honorary family in “Once Upon a Zeppelin”) and the rest of the mane 6 (also appointed honorary fam in “Super Cider Squeezy 6000””)

Oh, and did I mention the royal sisters also have another cousin?
According to the book, "My Little Pony: Under the Sparkling Sea", Princess Celestia's cousin is shown to be a sea lion named King Leo of the underwater city of Aquastria, and ruler of the mermares and seaponies.

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What a confusing family, indeed.
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 01:55:14 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about any of this contextually, but the idea of the alicorn wings/horn combo on an infant reminds me weirdly of Japanese families who got their kids conferred high ranks when they were tiny just to further the family power and influence. So now that's an interesting impression of the whole court of Celestia.

Vladimir makes him sound vampirish and a bit creepy xD.

Also, this is slightly off topic but relates to the above scan...Celestia suggested that Rarity was dying to meet Vladimir...Malicieusement?... O.o.
Mischievously? Maliciously? Which one? O.o.

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Offline tailrustedtealeaf

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 07:04:10 PM »
Also, this is slightly off topic but relates to the above scan...Celestia suggested that Rarity was dying to meet Vladimir...Malicieusement?... O.o.
Mischievously? Maliciously? Which one? O.o.
Went to check it out on mlp.fandom:
Quote
In this story, he is referred to as Vladímir, although it is inconsistent with his original name which has been also retained in the show's French dub.
...why change it?
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Offline lalalei2001

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2020, 01:32:52 AM »
I like his design! I wonder what he'll look like as he gets older.

Offline Shaz

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2020, 02:10:11 AM »
Maybe in Equestria and its surrounding lands anyone of high/royal rank becomes an honorary relative of the Royal Sisters. Perhaps to show their allegiance to Equestria, which seems to be the dominant political power. (I'm still not sure how all the kingdoms work in G4. The Crystal Empire seems to be actually rather small as empires go, and I think also it's actually a part of Equestria?)

Like Taffeta being reminded of Japanese history, I've been deep into medieval Romania (and surrounding countries) recently, so that's why the name Vladimir delights me so much :) A good strong Slavic name! The name of the prince/saint who Christianised eleventh century Kiev! Maybe pony Vladimir going to friendshipise (?) some distant kingdom!

Celestia is a sort of pony god, isn't she? (It's so long since I watched G4!) Maybe 'cousin', 'nephew' or 'niece' is a honorary title given to important ponies to imply that they have a divine right to rule. Maybe Prince Léon is the infant ruler of some little Equestrian principality! His immediate family perished in some battle and he was left the only heir to the throne, and ascended to alicorn status at an alarmingly young age....my imagination is running away with me :lol:

Also, this is slightly off topic but relates to the above scan...Celestia suggested that Rarity was dying to meet Vladimir...Malicieusement?... O.o.
Mischievously? Maliciously? Which one? O.o.

Mischievously. Although I quite like the idea of a malicious Celestia :lol:. I seem to remember that she has a reputation for amusing herself with tricks at her subjects' expense. I suppose after living for a millennium you have to do something to pass the time....

Offline Taffeta

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2020, 03:41:01 AM »
It can have both connitations in French if I remember rightly (albeit in context mischievous sounded more likely, I also find a Celestia with secret evils more interesting.)

...All the stuff you just said, Shaz, made me think even more of Japan. There are so many terms used there to indicate a relationship that isn't necessarily blood (like oniisan/oneesan doesn't necessarily mean an older brother or sister), albeit cousin is a bit more specific. But adopting individuals is also really common in old Japan, especially in contexts where a family member dies, but also in situations where an individual needs more status and a better sponsor.

...And in later Edo Japan, samurai families would adopt merchant children for money. Samurai were increasingly poor and merchant families had no political influence but all the money, so it was a way for a merchant child to gain samurai privelege.

...All those things flap around in my mind with Leon, albeit unlikely given that pretty much no real Japanese historical stuff appears in anything produced in the West. Although there are a few vague nods in the FIM series I think to stuff that originates in Asia, I think mediaeval Europe a much more likely source for intel.

...Thread now thoroughly derailed into a language and history discussion. Epic <3.

We've talked about the name Vladimir, but Leon means 'Lion'. What's interesting about Leon's spelling (sorry, too lazy for the accent) is that - like Vladimir - it seems less French than it needs to be in context. Not that Leon can't be a French name, I'm sure, but Leon is the Spanish word for lion (albeit different accent placement I think). Both Vladimir and Leon's names seem to imply something from outside. Vladimir from Romania, Leon from the Iberian peninsula then? Another place with a complex and interesting mediaeval history...
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Offline Shaz

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2020, 04:16:41 AM »
@Taffeta, that's so interesting about Japan!
It's a shame to think that the writers of pony magazines weren't actually thinking that deeply about these things, but that's okay, that's what we're here for :)

Of course, royal families from different countries often intermarry quite a bit for the sake of royal bloodlines (more so in The Old Days, of course), so maybe that explains all these cousins.

Léon is at least a Latinate name, but finding Vladimir in a French context was a bit of a surprise! I wonder what the reasoning behind it was. It's usually more of a Russian/Bulgarian/Serbian etc name. Romania has a particularly interesting linguistic history, the language is predominantly Latin (thanks to invading Romans) but has Slavic, Dacian, Greek, etc influences. Many of their medieval rulers had Slavic names such as Vladislav and Mircea (now totally off-topic. But yay languages!).

More Shaz rambling, and an unexpected story about pony princes:
Spoiler
So, I thought too much about Vladimir and Léon and so on, and they got scrambled up in my thoughts of medieval Wallachia, and somehow Equestria became the equivalent of the Ottoman Empire, Vladimir and Blueblood became two separate ponies (but brothers), and Vladimir became the warrior hero of his people - I mean ponies!
Princess Celestia gets a bad rap here, and I think FiM canon has gone out the window, but it's only meant as a bit of fun. Hopefully some other people might find it fun to read, I certainly enjoyed writing it :) I hope it's not too off-topic: Léon is in there!
Walmaneia is a rubbish name, it just came about from Wallachia, Romania and mane. Sounds more like an American supermarket chain than a proud principality :lol:
I now feel the need to find myself a Blueblood toy (does he even exist as a toy?), fit him out with a little sword and call him Vladimir....

Spoiler
They were born to be the Princes of Walmaneia, and yet Prince Vladimir and his younger brother Prince Blueblood spent their colthood at the court of Celestia, Princess of Equestria; their father took them on a diplomatic trip there when they were but small, and then left them behind. It was said they were guests, and indeed they were treated well and allowed every luxury - every luxury, that is, except freedom. The language and ways of Equestria were at first strange to them, and, despite the Princess' best attempts, they never fully grasped the native religion of Friendship.
Other than that, however, the captivity affected them quite differently: Vladimir grew resentful of his captors, but Blueblood embraced many of their ways. Blueblood was the better-looking of the siblings; he revelled in the attention paid to him by the mares of the court, flirted with them, dressed in fine clothes, delighted in attending social events where he could see and be seen. The life of an indolent aristocrat suited him well, and he recognised that it was only at the sophisticated Court of Equestria that he could enjoy it: Walmaneia was too rough and ready a country, and its princes were warriors rather than pampered royals. A Walmaneian prince had to be always ready to fight for his independence as the surrounding countries and empires squabbled over territories and tried to swallow the little principality whole - that life would never now suit Blueblood, who spent all his time parading in his finery, dancing at balls, and having secret rendezvous in the rose garden with high-ranking mares. It was said that he had once scored a kiss from the lips of Princess Celestia herself.
Vladimir, however, retained his warrior nature; the luxuries that Blueblood found enchanting only made him more resentful. He looked at Princess Celestia and saw more than just a beautiful and benevolent rainbow-haired goddess of Friendship, as so many believed her to be. He saw her secret political machinations, the way she had turned the simple impulse of one pony to befriend and trust another into an all-encompassing religion that well suited her own ambitions. She called herself a Princess, and yet she had the powers of a Queen or an Empress, and bound many of the lesser kingdoms and principalities in the bonds of vassalage. The Crystal Empire pledged fealty to her, and Yakyakistan paid tribute in gold and in strong warriors to fight those who opposed her.
She called Vladimir and Blueblood her nephews, which was true enough in its way: they were the distant descendants of her mother's sister, who had married into Walmaneian royalty to seal some long-ago treaty. But that had all happened many generations ago, for the Princess was many centuries old, and Vladimir sometimes wondered what it did to a pony, to live so long, to see so many come and go. Did it blind one to the true importance of other ponies? Did their lives seem worthless for being so short? Did they come to seem like pawns to play with? She took students to teach magic, and controlled them as if they were puppets; perhaps the whole of Equestria was simply her puppet theatre.
It was said that she was benevolent and loving - the graceful paragon of Friendship! - but she was ruthless too. She had banished her own sister to the moon, and Vladimir knew she had banished others too, banished them using a magical mirror that no one was supposed to know about (and yet how was a captive Walmaneian prince to pass his time if not by spying?). Those who opposed her always seemed to end up disappearing, and, unlike the honest rough-and-ready punishments of Walmaneia, not even a body was left behind. It was as if she erased them entirely, like unwanted characters erased from a story by a scribble of a writer's quill. She was the great puppet-master of Equestria, but, by the hooves of the great God Zalmoxis, Vladimir would never let her control his strings.
He played along and bided his time, waited for his moment.
His father was killed in one of the wars that so often troubled Walmaneia. Little Prince Léon, Vladimir's young nephew, was named as successor, but he was far too young to rule, and served only as a figurehead while the high-ranking lords squabbled over their own petty concerns and let the country run to ruin.
The Princess told Vladimir that now was the time to return and take up the reins of his country (a strange old expression that, 'take up the reins'. Nopony really knew quite what it meant). She smiled as she said it, for she believed she had power over him, believed she had converted him to her ways, believed that he would renew the oaths of fealty that his father had once sworn. Perhaps she thought that one day he too might turn over his sons as hostages to ensure his continued good behaviour, and allow her to fill their minds with her twisted friendship creed.
He said nothing of his true feelings. He let her provide him with soldiers, with swift-flying pegasi, strong earth ponies, unicorns versed in battle spells. He would take what he needed from her, just as she herself never hesitated to take what she wanted from other lands. He left Blueblood behind, for he was happy enough with his romantic intrigues, and would never pose a serious threat to the Walmaneian throne. Perhaps Celestia would try to use Blueblood against him one day; perhaps she would threaten harm to Blueblood to ensure Vladimir's compliance. It mattered not; Blueblood was nothing to him now. Blueblood had given up all right to be called a prince of Walmaneia, while saving his torn-apart country was all Vladimir cared about.
He would use Celestia's own mercenaries to take back the country, and as soon as he was secure on his throne, he would withdraw his fealty to Equestria - he had yet to swear any formal oath, anyway - and stop paying the annual tribute. It would lead to war, no doubt - well, let it be so! It was time someone opposed mighty Equestria. As the old Walmaneian poet said: "Life in freedom - or else death!" There was nothing better than freedom: his long captivity had taught him that.
He would not harm Léon. The young colt might yet be useful. He could be taught the right way to lead a country still, and it was as well to have an heir. But the lords who squabbled and ran the country to ruin - well, they would be given a chance to mend their ways, of course. Just one chance. But if they forfeited that chance, there would be no second chance, and the punishments he would inflict would make exile to the moon seem as nothing. He had learnt one thing from Princess Celestia at least: though her subjects might profess to love her, in truth they feared her; and fear was a stronger commander of loyalty than any love. Soon, very soon, the world would fear Prince Vladimir just as much. Tales of his deeds would run through the land, and only in Walmaneia would they truly know what a hero he was. He might not be able to raise the sun, but, by the mane of Zalmoxis, he would raise his poor suffering country from the ashes!

Offline Taffeta

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2020, 04:25:15 AM »
:cookie:

Leon is also Greek. Apparently. Just throwing that out there.

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Offline gemini_pony

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2020, 05:02:06 AM »
I don't see any wings on him? Is there a better picture?

Oh wait I see the little picture. Lol I'm blind

Offline Shaz

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2020, 06:38:37 AM »
:cookie:

Leon is also Greek. Apparently. Just throwing that out there.

:cookie: :yummy:

Oh yes, I forgot about Greek. Latin probably borrowed from Greek, or they both borrowed from some other ancient language. And now there's Leons everywhere! Leons, Léons and Leóns, as far as the eye can see! :lol:
https://www.behindthename.com/name/leon

I realise people here must see my name and think 'oh no, here comes more insane rambling about etymology and languages!' :lol:

Offline Mana Minori

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2020, 07:06:59 AM »
Maybe in Equestria and its surrounding lands anyone of high/royal rank becomes an honorary relative of the Royal Sisters. Perhaps to show their allegiance to Equestria, which seems to be the dominant political power. (I'm still not sure how all the kingdoms work in G4. The Crystal Empire seems to be actually rather small as empires go, and I think also it's actually a part of Equestria?)

Like Taffeta being reminded of Japanese history, I've been deep into medieval Romania (and surrounding countries) recently, so that's why the name Vladimir delights me so much :) A good strong Slavic name! The name of the prince/saint who Christianised eleventh century Kiev! Maybe pony Vladimir going to friendshipise (?) some distant kingdom!

Celestia is a sort of pony god, isn't she? (It's so long since I watched G4!) Maybe 'cousin', 'nephew' or 'niece' is a honorary title given to important ponies to imply that they have a divine right to rule. Maybe Prince Léon is the infant ruler of some little Equestrian principality! His immediate family perished in some battle and he was left the only heir to the throne, and ascended to alicorn status at an alarmingly young age....my imagination is running away with me :lol:

Also, this is slightly off topic but relates to the above scan...Celestia suggested that Rarity was dying to meet Vladimir...Malicieusement?... O.o.
Mischievously? Maliciously? Which one? O.o.

Mischievously. Although I quite like the idea of a malicious Celestia :lol:. I seem to remember that she has a reputation for amusing herself with tricks at her subjects' expense. I suppose after living for a millennium you have to do something to pass the time....
their making any neighboring royal a relative would make a lot of sense, and certainly serve to explain why Celestia nuzzled Queen Novo during the credits of the MLP movie.

I think the fans gave the royal sisters roles as gods, as it was never implied in the show. (I guess because they move the sun and moon, but the plain old unicorns did that before they did)
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Let’s Discuss- Léon the Alicorn
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2020, 08:14:40 AM »
:cookie:

Leon is also Greek. Apparently. Just throwing that out there.

:cookie: :yummy:

Oh yes, I forgot about Greek. Latin probably borrowed from Greek, or they both borrowed from some other ancient language. And now there's Leons everywhere! Leons, Léons and Leóns, as far as the eye can see! :lol:
https://www.behindthename.com/name/leon

I realise people here must see my name and think 'oh no, here comes more insane rambling about etymology and languages!' :lol:

I don't! Because hey, I'm the one who rambles incoherently about Japanese historical stuff and pedantic pony details ;) Plus languages are awesome <3.
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