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Author Topic: Dream Beauty questions  (Read 199 times)

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Offline MintyMyndi

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Dream Beauty questions
« on: October 17, 2020, 11:26:49 PM »
Okay, I've had my eyes on these gorgeous creatures for a while now. I don't own one yet, but am thinking about rectifying that soon. In the meantime, I have four things I would like to learn about these guys.

1. Mane Beads
It seems like such a small detail; how many of you knew they had different shapes? I call them "diamonds" (faceted gems) and "pearls" (plain spheres). If there were any variants with these, it would be easy for them to go unnoticed. For anyone who is blessed with a Dream Beauty's presence, I'd like you to please check them, make sure they match this list, and tell me if they don't (and tell me the two I'm missing!).
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2. Windsweeper's symbols
I have noted on my list that there appear to be two variants of Windsweeper: one with her flowers painted blue, and one whose flowers show her body color. It's hard to tell, but I can't recall seeing a non-prototype with unpainted symbols... but there has to be a reason I wrote that, right? I now think it may be a fading issue, since the painted flowers are the same hue as and only a few shades darker than her body. If you can prove me wrong, please do!

3. Songrider's hair streak
Almost everywhere has it listed as fading pink, so I just kind of accepted it. That is, until I saw that Ghost of the Doll had it listed as white! Surely they were just referencing a faded one, right? But digging upon digging didn't yield pics of any that were definitely still pink. There are a few which have a faint pink tint, but who's to say it isn't coming from the rest of her hair? Dream Beauties didn't have any backcard art or media appearances, so that's not something to go off of. Can anyone show me a Songrider with a pink streak? If not, I'll have to assume it's always been white!

4. Prototypes
Does anybody here own or know anything about  the prototypes? I desperately want info about a certain one especially: the Showtime Beauty shown on the back of the box. Even a good scan of said box will make me happy! Here's what I wrote about her in the prototype section of my list:
"A prototype version of Spritzy’s pose also appears, with smaller eyes and less muscle definition. It is possible that this was the first pose created, but there is little evidence to support this other than the difference in style."
"On the back of the box, a Showtime Beauty is shown in Spritzy’s pose. Her saddle is decorated with tassels and daisies. She has a short forelock. Her color scheme is similar to Mayfair’s. She has smaller eyes than a normal Dream Beauty.
The fact that this pony’s mold was based on the early Spritzy pose is the most likely reason it was never used; it would look out of place among released ponies. Most likely, it would have taken too much effort to recreate it in the new style to make it worthwhile. The presence of a third Showtime Beauty mold suggests this set originally consisted of three ponies, but without a third unique color scheme, it remains unproven. (And no, I don’t count proto-Circle Dancer’s color scheme as unique, as it was clearly reworked into her current one.)
The possibility of a third Showtime Beauty raises the possibility that there were initially only three Sweet Perfume Beauties, making these sets contain the same amount as every other set. Which Sweet Perfume Beauty is the “extra” will likely remain unknown; however, Colorglow and Songrider seem like the most likely candidates. Not only are they the only Dream Beauty setmates to share a pose, but they also share this pose with Mayfair.
With this third Showtime Beauty in mind, it is possible that Mayfair’s color scheme was intended for this unused pose, and Mayfair herself originally had a different color scheme (perhaps the colors of the “extra” Sweet Perfume Beauty?) that has yet to be seen on her mold. Assuming this was the case, the name “Mayfair” may not have been intended for her color scheme at all, but the pose. This would leave the prototype pony nameless."

Thanks to anyone who can help!
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2020, 07:56:40 AM »
I have the two winged beauties you mention, not sure if I can get at them to check their beads though. I'll go see...

ETA my Glider and WW both have round beads by the looks of them.

My photo of Song Rider also looks like her hair may be white, but the place to really check is at the roots.

ETA - so since I was checking the wingers, I got Song Rider out as well. I admit, looking at mine, I can't see any hint of pink at the roots or the tail hole. When I put her hair against white paper to compare it isn't quite the same but it doesn't look pale pink. Mine still has some o her curl and is reasonably good condition, but the thing is that fading pink can completely fade out. My sister's Tornado has snow white hair with not a hint of pink left in it :/ But right now I can't disprove your theory. And honestly, it makes sense for hers to be white, leaving the fading pink to her setmate.


Somewhere I have the Hasbro UK catalogue image for the prototype DBs, but I don't suppose it's much different from what you already have. I feel like it may have been there'd be 3 of that set, but then there are 4 of one of the others, so I'm not sure it's that simple. I am not sure if it is the same image or prototype because I no longer have a DB box (and only ever had a shimmering one anyway). The image I have is not cooperating at the moment and so I can't upload it but it says an assortment of 2 ponies. To me the poses look normal though, at a glance, so it may be you're talking about a different image.

This may or may not matter, but in 1987 Hasbro's catalogue includes 2 things for the UK that never happened here. It has 3 sets of twins and we only ever had too, and most importantly it includes the only known photo of the Paradise prototype we never had either. Now, the UK didn't get DBs, the stores clearly thought that it wasn't worth it, so that's all I can say about their presence in the UK. But if Paradise was included and not sold, and if they scaled down the number of twin sets for the UK after their catalogue was produced, it makes me think that the 1990 one is probably correct for the Showtime beauties and the assortment was always going to be 2.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 08:09:54 AM by Taffeta »
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Offline MintyMyndi

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 12:10:11 PM »
Thank you for checking the beads! My list has been updated with the new information. My best bet otherwise was to find one for sale and hope the images were good enough to tell! The Shimmering Beauties gave me problems because theirs are clear.

As far as I know, every box has the same images on the back, one pony of each set. It shows a design for a Showtime Beauty that was never used.

As for the catalog images do they match the ones featured here? Those are what I'm going off of.
https://www.ghostofthedoll.co.uk/mylittlepony-dreambeauties.php

My theory is that there were three of each set designed initially, but they decided to scrap the third Showtime Beauty mold. Rather than having the pony originally in the pose be a recolor, they reworked the pony in Mayfair's pose into a Sweet Perfume Beauty, as a medallion would be easier to sculpt than a whole molded saddle. This would mean that the third color scheme would have never been shown to the public, as it was reworked at the design stage. I have no evidence for this other than the numbers, though.

Here is what I have written about the prototypes in my Word document, in case you want to read it. I didn't note that the lavender hair looks more pink, but I think it's just a quirk of the images. It's its own unique shade, separate from the pinks, and it's consistent on every pony with the color.
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2020, 12:13:36 PM »
The image in the catalogue I have is the same as the image of Circle Dancer that she has lower down on the page, in the very pale colouring.
On the UK catalogue neither pony have names beside them, but that is probably from the US catalogue as it has the name of the pony.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:42:13 PM by Taffeta »
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Offline MintyMyndi

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2020, 12:29:20 PM »
The insert at the top features the same images as on the box, I think. The Showtime beauty in question is present.

The catalog images are on there, down with their respective sets. The one for the Showtime Beauties shows pale Circle Dancer, whose hues are similar to the final product.
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2020, 01:43:15 PM »
I do have that insert. I can't remember if it's on Stardazzle's box - the only box I ever had - as I sold her years and years ago (more than 15 probably). But it's not the same image as the one in the catalogue I have from Hasbro. That's the paler one as I said.

I can see your point about the third pose making that comparison...but...

Based entirely on my experience with regular ponies, there are a lot of shifts that happen before a pony reaches its final version. The insert version of Sweet Delight shows her as a pegasus with a completely different symbol. Was that always going to be Sweet Delight or was it a different concept altogether? We'll never know; the list Hasbro sent me in 1995 was built from their photo records and catalogues but names only Sweet Delight. And Baby Schoolbag has 2 prototype pose options that are different from what was sold - feathered hooves and a first tooth pose. Again, this was still Baby Schoolbag.

In a way the lack of a UK release makes it harder to determine with the DBs because they never had comic appearances to connect any of these details together. But a lot of the prototype details that didn't necessarily appear in the ponies (like wings on Songster and Player) did appear in the UK comics, and helps tie those details together. So in context yeah, it's another pose but...I am going to assume it's not an extra character.

(Though we will never really know for sure, Hasbro did change names during production as well).

I admit, I don't spend a lot of time playing around with the DBs, I only included them on my site for completion, so haven't spent much time digging into their variations or details like you clearly have. I am just assuming based on the regular line that it's probably just a prototype and not a complete rework.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:46:39 PM by Taffeta »
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Offline MintyMyndi

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2020, 02:00:33 PM »
I see your point. But what doesn't make sense to me is why they'd make a whole new mold to replace the scrapped one instead of just remaking a design they already had. Perhaps it was because they were almost finished when they decided Spritzy's pose needed reworked, and had to make a Showtime mold based on a finalized pose instead?
Perhaps they always had four Sweet Perfume Beauties, but initially had three Showtime Beauties. When they decided that pose was too different, they simply scrapped it, moving its color scheme to Mayfair's current pose (perhaps so they would have a pink one).
Perhaps there only ever were two color schemes, and they made the prototype as a mock-up before the other poses were finalized.

It's likely to remain a mystery lost to time, but it's fun to speculate. And if sketches, photos, etc. ever emerge of the fabled third Showtime Beauty, I'd love to see them.
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2020, 02:21:09 PM »
We are talking about the same company that produced 3 new moulds in the very final year of international production, one of which was an amended version of the baby unicorn mould. :/

TBH there are so many things especially over in this part of the world in the early years that make the idea that they'd make and then scrap a mould as a prototype seem like a minor consideration.

But I guess we will never know. In the mid 1990s I wrote to Hasbro.com as well but they were fairly useless and couldn't provide me any information. Hasbro UK were much more helpful but DBs were not sold here. I don't suppose there is a paper trail to prove the existence of a third pony, but more because I don't really think one ever existed.

IMO what is more likely based on all the other inbetween ponies that exist is that they had some designs and they mocked up some samples and then picked the two they thought worked best. I feel like the one on the insert and the one in the catalogue are both stepping stones toward the final two we actually had released. One shows a different Circle Dancer and one a different Mayfair, which suggests they were playing around with pose, colour and so on. But the pose change alone doesn't make a different pony or suggest there were ever going to be more than just two. We can't talk about a fabled third without some paper trail suggesting a third exists. The colouring on the inseert is so close to the actual released pony it makes it unlikely that's a different pony. Circle Dancer (and Stardazzle) are much more distinct yet named so there's no way to dispute who they are meant to be. I think you are putting too much on the pose alone. I mean, I have Susie and she's in an entirely different pose to the released Susie, but she's still Susie. And Love in a Mist, Sweet Delight, baby Schoolbag - their identities didn't change because they had prototypes in different poses. It's hard to see the DBs being any different tbh.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see you prove a production trail for a lost third pony. But you would probably need some input from Hasbro/a design team/sketches. We just don't have that right now.

With all that said - I think it's great someone's prodding into the detail of the DBs, as they do tend to get left out when it comes to nitpicky discussion stuff.
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Offline MintyMyndi

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2020, 06:48:34 PM »
I was just going off of the fact that the Showtime molds were unique to each character. The existence of a third one seems to suggest that at least another character was considered. But perhaps they did make three just to play around with. Makes me wonder if they ever made a revised version of the unused mold. Perhaps they scrapped it before there was a need.

Another possible scenario is that they made the proto-Spritzy pose, then used it for mock-ups of each gimmick. Then they made the three used poses. They didn't see the need to remake the previous ponies made in the old mold, but would make future prototypes in the revised one. At that point, they had decided that the Shimmering Beauties should have glitter and not confetti, which would explain how only the boxed Dreamgleamer has the old pose.
Only the Showtime Beauties and the Sweet Perfume Beauties don't use the old pose at all in the catalog images. Perhaps- and this may be reaching a bit- they designed the entirety of the Sweet Perfume set (at least the characters and prototypes thereof) after they scrapped the third Showtime beauty pose, and the reason the set has four really is to compensate for the lack of proto-Mayfair's pose.
But who knows what they were thinking? For all I know, they could've made the smaller-eyed, less-defined Spritzy pose afterward, perhaps in response to someone saying the eyes were too big or the muscles too defined. We have no evidence against that, do we? I still like the possibility of a "lost" character. Gives it a bit more mystery, however unlikely.

I still find it odd that a piece of unused pony history was right there the whole time and seemingly nobody noticed. If she escaped unharmed, I wonder who owns her now? Is she being taken care of? Is she a plaything? What condition is she in? Perhaps, some day, we'll get to see detailed photos of her...! Maybe she'll even go up for sale! Or maybe she was destroyed like many prototypes are... But a girl can dream, can't she?
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Dream Beauty questions
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2020, 11:37:50 PM »
Honestly the questions are the thing that makes G1 super interesting. Sadly so few prototypes and sample ponies and other such stuff are in collector hands that it's hard to know what maybe became of that girl. It would be amazing if someone found any of them :/ I suppose it depends as well how nicely they were put together...remembering that there's at least one resin and a handful of painted ponies in the community, it's possible she was just put together for show for the photo and wasn't properly constructed.

The boxed Dream Gleamer with the heart confetti is pretty neat as well as prototypes go. It's like they were trying out what later got used for the glowing magic ponies a year or two earlier. And knowing that prototype glowing magics seemed to use sparkle pony bodies and uncut shapes, it certainly makes for a narrative that "big chunky shapes in plastic" were something they were considering seriously for a good while before they came up with a set to make it happen.

I don't think we can rule out a third character, but I've always been on the cynical side of the debate, in that I like to have some paper trail at least to suggest there's something there before I'll grasp onto it. I'd love you to be right - I just feel like it would be more persuasive if there was something (like an image of 3 ponies) to indicate that it's not just a production sample for an existing pony character.

Speaking especially as someone in the UK, I get really fed up with the number of "It's a UK exclusive!" rumours I've had to debunk over the last 22 years, so I guess it's made me more critical ;)
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