Has Friendship is Magic impacted you in any way?

[Taffeta]

Yes, this too! Ugh, that whole thing was such a mess, and so poorly handled. It was rot from the top down, from Hasbro letting it air, to the voice actress giving such blithe replies as 'I based it on a mentally disabled person in my youth, it's fine!' and telling people who wrote to her that 'you don't sound disabled!' That was so upsetting. I know they're just voice actors, but I wish someone could have just ... gently taken them aside and given them a quick 'here's what NOT to say' before they made any public statements about it.

But putting that into context, that is exactly how people talk about disability in normal life. It's an exact representation of how things are normally for a whole lot of people. If I had a pound for every time someone told me I didn't 'look' or 'sound' or 'act' autistic, I would probably be able to buy Baby Sugarcake at last. And how am I meant to take that? As a compliment? Congratulations, you don't seem that broken? You're almost normal? I really dunno. And as for not acting autistic, what that actually means is, "you aren't like the stereotype I read about on google." So yay. I'm getting a pat on the back because you have really lousy source material...

I mean, I've been told that I should just deal with it that 'autistic' is an insult word, and when the BBC made an article about the popularity of anime among autistic people, some guy made a video on youtube deriding autistic people and pointing out there were real anime fans too, and not just (the r word) type of fans.  You tube did not take it down.

The problem is that mostly disabled people are not included in discussions on disability awareness. Apparently we don't understand disability well enough to comment on it. I was basically told that one time when I was working with disabled kids. But you see it in online discussions, comments, articles - there's a sense of writing about something 'other' but very rarely do they speak to the 'other' to get that perspective. At best it's 'mother of', 'friend of', 'sibling of', 'expert on'. And while those views are often valid, they're a different experience of the disability than the person living with it. There's also this problem that most folk don't realise disabled people are people reading stuff, watching stuff, thinking about stuff too. So you see a lot of conversations about disability as though the disabled person will never see it, let alone take damage from it. This is especially true with ableist jokes like the one with the Muffin pony.

It's normalised to the extent that frankly, Muffin doesn't even register on my scale of disability discrimination. The comments by the VA are normal ignorance. What also tends to happen if you object is that people turn it back on you. "It's just a joke" "You're taking it too seriously." Or "It's not that big a deal."

So I have no expectation that anyone in the franchise will be disability aware. Most of these companies do not include disabled people in their policies, let alone their disability policies, so it's just a vicious circle.

And autism isn't a mental disability either, but it is often lumped together as one because people don't understand what neurodevelopmental means and that it's a physical difference in the brain, not a mental health concern. So it's entirely plausible that they'd make those kinds of connections and assumptions for Muffin, that she must be somehow 'mentally disabled' because her eyes were different. (I put it in quotes, because it's not a particularly nice term).

[Nemesis]

@Taffeta: What amuses me most about people who think of “autistic” as an insult word is that a very large percentage of the modern technology and conveniences they depend on would not exist without the contributions of autistic individuals. Silicon Valley is known for its high concentration of autistic people, to say nothing of historical figures like Einstein or Tesla who are now suspected of having been on the spectrum.

The world is very happy to use autistic individuals for their talents and abilities, all the while deriding and rejecting them on a personal level.

As to that anime thing... Satoshi Tajiri, creator of Pokemon is autistic. I wonder if he counts as a “real” fan, lol?

[Taffeta]

@Taffeta: What amuses me most about people who think of “autistic” as an insult word is that a very large percentage of the modern technology and conveniences they depend on would not exist without the contributions of autistic individuals. Silicon Valley is known for its high concentration of autistic people, to say nothing of historical figures like Einstein or Tesla who are now suspected of having been on the spectrum.

The world is very happy to use autistic individuals for their talents and abilities, all the while deriding and rejecting them on a personal level.

As to that anime thing... Satoshi Tajiri, creator of Pokemon is autistic. I wonder if he counts as a “real” fan, lol?

Great points on all levels.

[lonewolf]

That said, I only know of three C&Ds handed down in the fandom; one was to a prolific custom plush maker, Makeshiftwings I believe, which was truly sad. Her plush were incredible, and the concept of a crafter making a living on her art is still something I want to see more of.

Are you thinking of White Dove? She somewhat got one, but continued to make plushies afterwards. There was also C&D's for the Fighting is Magic game (which was redesigned with the help of Lauren and is now Them's Fightin' Herds), and the show accurate cartoons by  Jan Animations.

[Zapper]

Which is weird, because to my knowledge wall eye isn't a mental disability.

Nope, it isn't. That fan interpretation of muffin pony being slow and mentally challenged was based on her lazy eye, tho. Probably because it looks "dumb" so she's gotta be dumb

[Leave a Whisper]

Which is weird, because to my knowledge wall eye isn't a mental disability.

Nope, it isn't. That fan interpretation of muffin pony being slow and mentally challenged was based on her lazy eye, tho. Probably because it looks "dumb" so she's gotta be dumb

*sighs*

[Taffeta]

Which is weird, because to my knowledge wall eye isn't a mental disability.

Nope, it isn't. That fan interpretation of muffin pony being slow and mentally challenged was based on her lazy eye, tho. Probably because it looks "dumb" so she's gotta be dumb

*sighs*

Feel the need to point out that having an intellectual impairment <---better way of wording it =/= being dumb.

I figure you guys know this, but still.

[Zapper]

Which is weird, because to my knowledge wall eye isn't a mental disability.

Nope, it isn't. That fan interpretation of muffin pony being slow and mentally challenged was based on her lazy eye, tho. Probably because it looks "dumb" so she's gotta be dumb

*sighs*

Feel the need to point out that having an intellectual impairment <---better way of wording it =/= being dumb.

I figure you guys know this, but still.

"Dumb" is exactly what these people wanted to portray, tho. "She just has an intellectual impairment, if you are against this headcanon you are ableist" was a common excuse in fandom to everyone who said "wait, why is she stupid just because she has a lazy eye?". Also, if she was supposedly just portrayed with an "impairment" why was she always the butt of the jokes in-show? She always fumbled mail orders, crashed into objects, talked really slowly and ponies reacted to that in annoyance. She was barely able to do her job because she was so scatterbrained.
This character was never supposed to be actually disabled, she was an animation error turned viral fandom sensation and that is where she got all her characterization. Interestingly, the show writers went with the "dumb, naive klutz" narrative instead of the "loving single mom/caregiver" narrative that was also popular for a time.

PS: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IiyCIP7HR9c This is what I am talking about when I say "barely able to do her job". She can't tell the difference between a mailing adress and something that is written on the gift tag 

[Taffeta]

 I am in no way defending any part of what the FIM animation did, or their attitude, and you should know me better than to think that I was.

Reread the statements you made and you'll see that it's ambiguous. I know you guys so I know what you meant, but it could easily have been taken a different way by someone else, and that's what I wanted to challenge.

[Zapper]

Taffeta, I didn't "jump or explode on you" at all (I saw that you deleted that entire paragraph while I was typing my reply).
I was just making clear that fandom never intended on this character to portray disability and therefore calling her dumb has nothing to do with calling actually impaired people dumb. I was always in favor of calling this pony Bubbles or even Ditzy Doo because there is nothjng wrong with being a ditz, but she is just too stupid to function and pointing that out is critique on the writers for making that part canon.

[Taffeta]

You did, but you edited your post to make it less confrontational while I was typing mine, and since I am not interested in picking a fight, I edited mine to compensate.

In any case  reflecting on this, I think the issue itself is a bit of a minefield.

 I mean, I'd expect that to be the attitude of the G4 fanbase, because, as I said before, I've seen far more examples of that attitude in the brony community than here. But then on the flipside, maybe when they did that, the writer's mistakenly clocked onto the wrong element, and thought, hey, we're representing disability, that's awesome! Ratrher than thinking, hang on a minute, we're making jokes about disability. That sucks.

Sometimes that fine line of trying too hard to be inclusive backfires to being completely the wrong kind of inclusion. I am going to air this old laundry again but I still feel like the way MH attacked this idea was much less toxic, because it wasn't based on an error, or defined by the fandom. They did have a character in a wheelchair, but his being so didn't really stop him from doing anything as far as I remember. But I'll poke again at Ghoulia, who didn't communicate normally, and who didn't fit the stereotype for a zombie, but was a genius. To me that's a great character not becaise she's representing disability (although again it's a fan interpretation that she could be). But because she doesn't fit the mould. And with invisible disability, I think the best way you can sometimes feature that is to have characters that are simply different in some way from the expected.

I'll bring in Crunch the Rock Dog as well. That's absolutely not intended to depict Wind Whistler as autistic. It was the 1980s. But the whole message about judging her because she didn't throw all her emotions out there makes her super relatable to people on the spectrum. Again, not by trying to include disability, but by talking about the different ways in which people deal with stuff, it appears more inclusive.

In a less animated context, compare Bones to the Good Doctor. TGD is so offensive just in the trailers I cannot bear to watch more than about 5 minutes of it. Bones is never stated to be autisic, but she doesn't need to be. If people want to read her as that, they can, but don't have to. And that is way more important because at the end of the day, all these differences are normal and don't need to be singled out with a label in order to resonate to the people watching. An audience which includes disability. TGD suggests to me they don't know autistic people watch television. And that's kind of the sense with Muffin and the attitudes that come back over her. The VA telling people they didn't sound disabled is a prime example of this. It's a back-handed pseudo-compliment but also rationalising this idea  - disabled people aren't like us, so wouldn't be watching this, unless they're really 'normal' like disabled people, in which case it doesn't matter.

What FIM failed to do (and my disclaimer is that I have seen maybe 3 seasons, 2 complete and random eps from the others) is explore difference in a positive way beyond a certain safe level. YES the M6 are all different, but they are also common personality cliches. So they are differently the same. As such everyone loves them and they make friends easily and the show pushes that motif that you can make friends with anyone if you try hard enough.

 The characters that are different in FIM seem to be marginalised or singled out a lot more. I remember a lot of questions over Zecora, right back at the start, so this is a wider problem, not one associated with Muffin alone. This may be accidental, but where Muffin is concerned, she became a trope or a meme instead. The animation error may have been accidental, but they still had control over how that character was presented. I feel like they were too conscious of her 'difference' and thus they made her a joke, rather than a symbol of inclusivity. I have only seen a couple of episodes with Muffin in, and she doesn't have much of a role, so this may be not correct, but my feeling is that she is not included particularly in the 'friendship' model. She gets told off and her behaviour exasperates the others, but there's no kind of active sense of, Hey, Muffin, are you okay? How are you doing today? Let's hang out! It's more, hey, she's a klutz, she's gonna mess it up, sigh.

[Leave a Whisper]

Which is weird, because to my knowledge wall eye isn't a mental disability.

Nope, it isn't. That fan interpretation of muffin pony being slow and mentally challenged was based on her lazy eye, tho. Probably because it looks "dumb" so she's gotta be dumb

*sighs*

Feel the need to point out that having an intellectual impairment <---better way of wording it =/= being dumb.

I figure you guys know this, but still.

Yeah I know. I was just sighing in frustration that they took a physical impairment and automatically lumped it in with what they perceive to be lower mental capacity. Sorry that came out wrong.

I used to volunteer at a riding stable that catered specifically to people with various disabilities as a teen. Some of them were physically disabled, some developmentally disabled, some suffered from other things. This ran the gamut of everything from MS, down syndrome,  the severely abused, autism, epilepsy,  deafness, blindness, adhd.

 And I'm simply presenting facts here, there are people with developmental disabilities of all types. There are those who struggle with lower mental capacity,  there are disabled who struggle with movements that many people take for granted, and there are those who struggle with being able to articulate their needs.

[Taffeta]

 And I'm simply presenting facts here, there are people with developmental disabilities that struggle with lower mental capacity,  there are disabled who struggle with movements that many people take for granted, and there are those who struggle with being able to even articulate their needs.

This is true. I also worked for those 2 years in the college with various disabilities on and off the spectrum, both high functioning and foundation life skills level. But I don't equate intellectual impairment with the stereotypes, because intelligence is a subjective thing and far too often dictated by social expectations rather than reality. BUt I know you know that, I was just poking that the language was ambiguous. It's not that I thought either of you guys were suggesting intellectual impairment = stupidity.

There are a lot of problems with terms for different kinds of disability too. I am not comfortable with mental disability as a term because it's vague but also it doesn't really differentiate between mental health concerns, intellectual concerns, executive function concerns - all of which relate to the brain but in very different ways.

Also as you point out, physical impairment often doesn't mean intellectual impairment either. E.G cerebral palsy and such like. I also worked with some kids with duchennes, which was eye opening as well. And there's been some stuff here lately from the downs community fighting back against stereotypes as well. Which is a bit awesome tbh. But as you basically point out, disability is SO diverse that you just can't generalise into stereotypes. It's kind of why I said it's a minefield for the writers. But the voice artist kind of made that connection for them, which is unfortunate.

This is OT a bit but I had the chance to learn Makaton briefly at the college. I wish I could remember more of it now because it was so much fun as a way of communicating, and so useful.

[Leave a Whisper]

 I'm assuming Makaton is what some learn to help people who can't form words be understood? I remember some of those people had their own interpreters. Mostly family members or specially trained workers.

[Taffeta]

I'm assuming Makaton is what some learn to help people who can't form words be understood? I remember some of those people had their own interpreters. Mostly family members or specially trained workers.

It's a sign language but unlike BSL/ASL etc, it basically has a hand sign for each word. A lot of the kids at the college who were nonverbal used it, and it wasn't as complex to learn as sign language.